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Speaker 1: One of the biggest discussion points of the last year

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Speaker 1: also has been the rise of online gambling. Some suggestions

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Speaker 1: that online gambling could be responsible for about one and

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Speaker 1: a half trillion round of our Economy Business Live reporting today,

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Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank actually pushing back a little on that,

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Speaker 1: saying the number doesn't add up. It would mean households

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Speaker 1: would be spending around one third of their income on gambling.

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Speaker 1: That would be twenty percent of our GDP. Plenty Pi

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Speaker 1: is an economist and director at Inani Strategies plenty. Good evening,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Money Show. It's been a little while.

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Speaker 1: I think if one fifth of our GDP was going

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Speaker 1: into online gambling, we would notice there'll be virtually no

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Speaker 1: money to spend anywhere else. How do you understand the

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Speaker 1: way the Reserve Bank is presenting these numbers.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I want to tell your listeners that

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Speaker 2: you have been promising me breakfast and you haven't dibeted.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I'm saying very much to be it's

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Speaker 2: really good to speak to your listeners. You know, it

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Speaker 2: is very difficult. This question is not so it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it has so many facets. Uh, you know, important economists

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Speaker 2: but obviously also this is the question for you know

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Speaker 2: so soologists, especially a question for cuberites, because there's a

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Speaker 2: lot going on here. But I think that one of

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Speaker 2: the things that have we managed here is that at

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Speaker 2: the base of our problems is es certainly consumer incomes

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Speaker 2: or people's incomes, because some of the work that has

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Speaker 2: come up from sech to say it's the same that

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Speaker 2: people are gambling because they think, because of them the

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Speaker 2: strains that are facing in terms of their income, that

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Speaker 2: when they are gambling, they may be extending that money

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Speaker 2: or at least pushing it forward to do more. So

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Speaker 2: you go out to gamble because you think if I

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Speaker 2: put in some of this money, I will win and

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Speaker 2: they just extend my income. That has been one thing

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Speaker 2: that has been argued. But the second part, and which

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Speaker 2: obviously as an ecoms I can speak about, is the

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Speaker 2: issue of addiction, because that's another social incoming problem. But

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Speaker 2: what is here from status is data, is that it

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Speaker 2: is certainly we do have a problem with gambling, whatever

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Speaker 2: we may find as as a cause, and certainly it

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Speaker 2: is a big one. And you look at two things

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Speaker 2: where the statistics that have been shown by sets the

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Speaker 2: same are two where they look at disposable income and

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Speaker 2: where that disposable income is coming from. And then they

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Speaker 2: also do a second part in the system, who actually

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Speaker 2: South Africa is making money. And also you find that

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Speaker 2: actually these places that are where people go to gamble

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Speaker 2: have also been kept trying some money. But also we

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Speaker 2: know that technology has done something extraordinary as it has

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Speaker 2: in all of our labs in which it has brought

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Speaker 2: everything closer to us. So where as before we used

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Speaker 2: to have to get out of our houses and go

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Speaker 2: and find where we can gamble, you can do it

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Speaker 2: on your phone. You know. I remember when I first

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Speaker 2: kept a job, and you know there's something here they

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Speaker 2: called LABA lab, which should you do level of people

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Speaker 2: basically gambling as a sort of catural thing in the

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Speaker 2: corners of you know, Alexander and everywhere else. Now you

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Speaker 2: don't even have to leave your house. So it is

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Speaker 2: part of what actually is happening. And I think one

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Speaker 2: of the key things that helps you do is really

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Speaker 2: to understand my spare jobs. But there you know, these

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Speaker 2: are fastest sort of highlighted some of the things that

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Speaker 2: the research is showing us.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose that if it was twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of our GDP, it would be such a devastating impact

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Speaker 1: so quickly that it wouldn't be sustainable. So it can't

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Speaker 1: be twenty percent. And about GDP, it has to be

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Speaker 1: less than that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, that's that's difficult. And one thing

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Speaker 2: is even I think you would have had this atument,

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Speaker 2: is that these days we are selling there a lot

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Speaker 2: of people statisticians, economists, socilo just so are saying how

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Speaker 2: do we become to these things that we're talking about

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Speaker 2: when we say it's twenty percent of our incomes because

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Speaker 2: obviously it is not only the people who have incomes

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Speaker 2: a gambling it is people actually who don't have incomes,

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Speaker 2: who are not working. But it is actually there, so

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Speaker 2: you would have to say, for example, that it is

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Speaker 2: people who have some money so somebody can rob it

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Speaker 2: and go and and and and and gamble. And so

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Speaker 2: part of our problem we tend to sort of look

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Speaker 2: at some of these trends and we don't actually really

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Speaker 2: interrogate the question where I try the answer, where I

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Speaker 2: try the question that I'm trying to answer, and actually

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Speaker 2: look at this. But there's no doubt that if you

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Speaker 2: think about it as South Africa has the problem that

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Speaker 2: we have in terms of income and income growth, and

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Speaker 2: people have to supplement their income. Then centually income is

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Speaker 2: a very very important part of that. Uh. And some

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Speaker 2: people are the things they're doing that they end up

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Speaker 2: being gambling adds and then they lose their money. So

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Speaker 2: it's much more complex, and it really is another question

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Speaker 2: we should just be looking at it as a question

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Speaker 2: that must be answered by economists or statisticians, but you know, sociologists,

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Speaker 2: social workers, because we have this kind of problem and

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Speaker 2: it is not something new, but certainly technology has actually

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Speaker 2: evasabated it because I you know, we know a lot

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Speaker 2: of people from example city on their phones doing forags

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Speaker 2: or doing all of the kinds of things that they

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Speaker 2: do on their phones to try and get their money more,

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Speaker 2: which actually also is indicator of the problems of income

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Speaker 2: and employment that are faced in South Africa.

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Speaker 1: Grantye Pye, thanks so much. Economist and director at Inani Strategies,

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Speaker 1: Granti Jack you what'sapp