1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Scridits on seven 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: oh two. Let's walk little. 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: by abscess cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: across Africa. Download the ABS Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: twenty five nine minutes after six. Good evening, Welcome to 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: the program. I'm Stephen Curtis. Plenty to come the CEO 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: of Sappie, Steve Binnie already on hold. Few will talk 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: to him in just a moment about their tie up 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 2: with a finish company going to create large synergies. What 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: about the graphic paper market and of course that's a 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: market that hud up with. This is not as big 13 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: as it was before the digital era. So a very 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: very clever way if you like to try and sort 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: of manage a difficult situation. Young Familian's here. It's with 16 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: my broadband, the votericom Safari Comm's story. The market and 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: Kenny are growing fundamentally and very very quickly. And if 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: you're a votercom you want to get into the fintech space, 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: well maybe that's the right place to go to go 20 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: to Kenya. Their economies grow at five percent a year. 21 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: I was amazed to read. It's one of those conversations 22 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: where you say to the producer really and they go yes. 23 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: And as always with producers and presenters, the producer is 24 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: right about the fact that there is a new underground 25 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 2: gold mine in South Africa in the Advatas Runt. It's 26 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: called Kwala Shallows. We'll speak to their CEO, Rudy Daseil 27 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: in about half an hour from now. And don't forget 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: momentum signs of success as well. Investments School tonight will 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: focus on the role of the US Federal Reserve when 30 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: it comes to investment. It's good to hear from you. 31 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: Oh double one double A three oh seven oh two 32 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: two one four four six oh five six seven and 33 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: voice notes on seven two seven oh two one seven 34 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: oh two. 35 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 3: The Lanly Show with Stephen krudis live on ninety two 36 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: point seven and one o six FM, streaming on the 37 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: Prime Media Plus. 38 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six. 39 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: Well straight to that Sappy story today they're creating a 40 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: joint venture with their graphic paper business with the finished 41 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: company upm Kamene Sappy. It will create synergies of around 42 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: one hundred million euros. Yes, Steve Binnie is the seer 43 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: of Sappy Steve, good evening. I can't imagine the day 44 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: you've had, so thank you for the time. How's this 45 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 2: plan going to work? How are you going to run 46 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: this joint venture? 47 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 4: Good evening, Stephen, Thanks for the opportunity. It's going to 48 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 4: be a fifty percent joint venture between ourselves and UPM. 49 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 4: As you indicated, we are the two largest players in 50 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 4: Europe for graphic paper. We believe it's a significant opportunity, 51 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 4: as you indicated, major synergy opportunities, and running this as 52 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 4: a partnership we think is the best way forward to 53 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 4: rationalize the industry and get it back on track. 54 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: You have to get permissions from various people. I mean 55 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: your shareholders, but looking at your share price today on 56 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: the JC, I can't imagine that'll be a problem. You'll 57 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 2: also have to get permission from regulators in different places, 58 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: and I imagine part of the synergy is you'll reduce 59 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: the number of people you employ, and I presume alb 60 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: competition issues too. 61 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 4: Indeed, in terms of the regulators, the biggest approval we 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 4: have to obtain is from the European Commission. We are 63 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 4: the two largest players, as I indicated in Europe in 64 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: this sector, we are approximately fifty five percent market share 65 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 4: between the two of us. However, we are confident of 66 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 4: being able to get that approval because there because of 67 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 4: the decline that we've seen over the years for demand 68 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 4: for graphic paper, there is significant excess capacity and also 69 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 4: the competition is increasing from imports. 70 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 5: Out of Asia or China and the likes. 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: So we think we've got a strong case with regards 72 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 4: to the second part of your question, the synergies, big, 73 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 4: big opportunities, it's very important that we rationalize the asset 74 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 4: base across the two set of assets. We're going to 75 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 4: be taking out capacity, rationalizing it, fixing the product mix, 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 4: and all of that will enable us to achieve one 77 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 4: hundred million plus synergies that we hope to achieve. 78 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: Imagine, you may, apart from just the synergies over the years, 79 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: get some money directly into your business. You'll be selling 80 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: essentially selling your business that's actually owns directly now to 81 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: this stoint venture. Will you get some proceeds, will you 82 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: be able to use that money for something? 83 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 4: Indeed, two parts to it. 84 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 5: I mean firstly, the deal itself. 85 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 4: Will get one hundred and thirty nine million euros out 86 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 4: of the transaction. That will serve to reduce our debt. 87 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 4: But then going forward, because of the synergies, the partnership, 88 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 4: the opportunities that will create, we are anticipating higher profits 89 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 4: going forward and we will be getting dividends out of 90 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 4: the joint venture, which once again we will used to 91 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 4: reduce debt. 92 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: A demand for graphic design paper it's been falling for years. 93 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 2: I think it's less than half now of what it 94 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: was I suppose nearly twenty years ago. So this is 95 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: a very good way to manage a difficult situation. But 96 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: obviously demand for graphic design paper is only going to 97 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: fall further. That's right. 98 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 4: Since two thousand and seven, the demand for graphic paper 99 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 4: in Europe has declined by sixty percent, and the reason 100 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 4: for that is that we've seen the shift to digital liphones, 101 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 4: iPads and the likes, and what we've had to do 102 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 4: is reduce capacity over a number of years, and unfortunately 103 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 4: we're sitting with a situation where it's likely to continue 104 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 4: to decline. By combining these two businesses, the two sets 105 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 4: of assets together. 106 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 5: As I say, fifty percent plus of. 107 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 6: The market share. 108 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 4: It just gives us more options. We can put the 109 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 4: capacity on the lowest cost machine, improve the product mechs, 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 4: it will improve efficiencies, costs, all of those things. So 111 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 4: a very attractive opportunity. And coming back to SAPY itself, 112 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 4: that allows us to focus on our growth businesses, which 113 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 4: is packaging and packaging. There's a high demand growth for 114 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 4: using paper for packaging, so we can focus on that area. 115 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 4: Also textiles. Wood fiber does go into clothing and textiles. 116 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 4: So these areas where we can focus going forward for growth. 117 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: Steve Bennie, I really appreciate the time. Thank you. The 118 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: CEO at SAPPI sixteen minutes after. 119 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 3: Six is on The Money Show six to eight pm. 120 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: Well, I saw a report from Bloomberg today about McKinsey, 121 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: their Africa partner, Gregor Thiesson, just talking about how tough 122 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 2: it's been to get back into the sort of South 123 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: African market. You'll remember McKinsey during the state capture era, 124 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: what happened to Desk and they eventually paid the money 125 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: the fees they'd received the disc they paid that back 126 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: and I was just sort of pondering their problem. I mean, 127 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: Bain had the same problem, and they eventually packed up 128 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: and left. I realized that when you get into sort 129 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: of graduations of which was worse or who's more evil, 130 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: you don't always end up in a very good place. 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: But I think Bain was a slightly different issue. And 132 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: if you look at what they were trying to do 133 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: for SARS, that all looked deliberate. McKenzie maybe not quite 134 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: in the same league, but I realized we could probably 135 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: You and I argue about that. But I was trying 136 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: to think if I was running McKinsey Africa and I 137 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: wanted to get back into the South African market, what 138 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: would I do? Where would I start? They did provide 139 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: some services for free during the B twenty imagine that 140 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: could be contested as well. I suppose what I would 141 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: probably start by doing is trying to put a human 142 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: face on McKinsey, because when I think of the McKenzie, 143 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: I just think of I don't know, quite rich people 144 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: wearing very smart suits. I don't have any idea of 145 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 2: what it sort of looks like from a pr point 146 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: of view. The problem is what you would normally do 147 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: is you would do a series of broadcasts invis you'd 148 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: come on the money show, you'll do some TV interviews 149 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: and put a face to McKenzie. The problem with that 150 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: is my first question would obviously be how do I 151 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: know that we can trust you? And you're kind of 152 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: back to the state capture era and that's quite tricky. 153 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: I don't know what you think about McKenzie right now. 154 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: Do you think they've rehabilitated themselves? Do you think they can? 155 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: Do you believe that they have changed? Let me put 156 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: this another way, what would it take for you to 157 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: believe that McKinzie deserves to do business in South Africa again? 158 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 2: And how would you feel of right now? A government 159 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: department got some of the services of McKenzie and paid 160 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: for those services. Voice notes please and seven two seven 161 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: oh two one seven o two two. 162 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: Stephen is on x at at Stephen. 163 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: Well Votercom confirming it's spending thirty six billion Rand and 164 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: buying a bigger share in Safari Coom, the biggest network 165 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: operator in Kenya. It's buying the stake from the Kenny 166 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: And government and that essentially means Vodcom will have a 167 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: fifty five percent share, that they'll have a controlling interest. 168 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: The npre millions. The editor admire broadband yen good evening 169 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: as a fari Com two thirds of the market in Kenya, 170 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: presumably a lot more revenue coming from Kenya and going 171 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: into verticom stop line good eving. 172 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's one of the things that Voticom highlighted in fact, 173 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 7: is that its revenue will immediately jump to two hundred 174 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 7: and twenty billion because of how IFRS rules work. So 175 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 7: that's that's something that that I think shareholders might like 176 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 7: and something that that potentially Voticon wanted to do for 177 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 7: shareholders as well, is you know, have have that stuff 178 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,239 Speaker 7: reported in directly in its financials rather than as an associate. 179 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 7: It's so involved in that market, this kind of makes 180 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 7: it official network operators. 181 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: Generally, there's this sort of move away from calls and 182 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 2: data to fintech issues we see as so much happening 183 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: in that space obtasier listing. For example, the payment system 184 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: in Kenya impairs say, is that a part of the 185 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: steal in some way? 186 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 7: Yeah? Absolutely, And and votcomon and safari Comm have made 187 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 7: various announcements about this over the years, their commitment to Empacer, 188 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 7: continuing investment in Empaser, expanding in Paser, so in those markets. 189 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 7: Paser is huge. It's it's essentially the de facto payment 190 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 7: rails based on the commentary that that we get out 191 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 7: of that market. So you know, here in South Africa 192 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 7: we're used to a very different way to make digital 193 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 7: payments in that market, it's essentially in Paser that's that's 194 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 7: how you you pay people digitally, and so it's got 195 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 7: it's a it's a very lucrative business for Veroticom in 196 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 7: that market. It's something that they try to replicate here 197 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 7: in South Africa but didn't have much success because of 198 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 7: how mature and advanced our banking system is and was 199 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 7: compared to Kenyan's. 200 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I would imagine even in Kenya, but in 201 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: many other parts of the continent, there's still so much 202 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: space left for the fintech sector generally to grow. 203 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 7: Yes, and even if you know it's not in a 204 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 7: hard user basis, which which there's probably stalled room to 205 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 7: grow there as well, there's definitely room to grow just 206 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 7: in terms of transaction volumes because of how nascent the 207 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 7: markets are. 208 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: Ye and for me and thanks very much indeed editor 209 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: at my broadband dot C at dot Today. 210 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 3: The Money Show on sevens Monday till Friday six to 211 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: eight pm. 212 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: Well, the rand going through the seventeen round to the 213 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: dollar barrier again today there has been some dollar weakness. 214 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: Andre Celiers is the director and Currency risk Strategistic Treasury 215 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: One Andrew Good Evening. We've seen the round doing quite 216 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: well against the dollar this week, then the developments today. 217 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: What's driving this. 218 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 6: Good evening to all the listeners. What's driving it? Well? 219 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 6: Two things. There is an inherent around slint. And why 220 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 6: I say that is if you look at the cross 221 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 6: currencies like the bound, like the euro and so forth, 222 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 6: you see that the rangy gaining there as well. So 223 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 6: it's not just gaining ground against the dollar, it's gaining 224 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 6: ground across the board. So hence some Rand strength. And 225 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 6: now I think we expect Modies to make an announcement 226 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 6: about our rating, and I think there's some optimism that 227 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 6: that could be signaling a change for us. We're still 228 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 6: attracting bond flows into the market because of our high 229 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 6: interst rates or relatively high inter threats compared to our 230 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 6: trading peers. And the carry trade is still alive and well, 231 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 6: the G twenty went well, so in domestically things are 232 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 6: looking positive, and commodity prices are still on an elevated level. 233 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 6: Other side of the country, other side of the world 234 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:55,479 Speaker 6: rather is America, and there the figures coming out related 235 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 6: to job creation and unemployment seems to be sick. Link 236 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 6: to us that easing into next week's Federal Reserve Open 237 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 6: Market Committee that we could expect another cut in intrastrates 238 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 6: as the last cuts for this year. And hence the 239 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 6: dollar is losing a little bit of its color. The 240 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 6: dollar index is below handed, so that weakening of the 241 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 6: dollar is also obviously assisting the land in its length 242 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 6: at this point in time. 243 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: And I mean usually when you hear a currency as weakening, 244 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: you think, well, you must blame the politicians. But in 245 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: this case, if I record Trump, the Trump administration said 246 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 2: explicitly they want a weeker dollar. They want that to happen. 247 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 6: It shuts the narrative of manufacturing in America so forth, 248 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 6: you know, making America great again. It shuts that narrative 249 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 6: because if you have a weaker dollar, then obviously you're 250 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 6: manufacturing could do better because you're experts, which will do better, 251 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 6: and so forth, and you're making your imports a little 252 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 6: bit more expensive. So from making America great again and 253 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 6: manufacturing increases and so forth. It's the narrative of a 254 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 6: week a dollar is complementary to what they want to achieve. 255 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: I mean, you get a sense that the rund's building 256 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: up a little bit of momentum, there's been quite a 257 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: lot of good news and upgrade tomorrow and a week 258 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: a dollar next week if the of interest rates are cut, 259 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: I mean, is there a bit of space for the 260 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: rand to do a little even better sort of early 261 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: next week? 262 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 6: Absolutely there is. If the dollar breaks the one seventeen 263 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 6: and moves closer to the one to eighteen levels against 264 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 6: the euro, for instance, there's a very good chance that 265 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 6: the land could go down and send into levels around 266 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 6: sixteen seventy five. It is important, however, that we break 267 00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 6: this seventeen and and sustainably be played below that level 268 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 6: for a day or two. 269 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,239 Speaker 2: I mean. One of the things that's sort of complicated 270 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: to work out is if we look at oil prices. 271 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: For example, if the dollar is weaker and the rand 272 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: looks stronger, the oil price in dollars simply moves up 273 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 2: a bit, which means that the rand oil price stays 274 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: the same. But if the rand is getting stronger and 275 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: the dollar is getting weaker, it gets a little harder 276 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: to know what the rand oil price is going to 277 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: be either way, though, if this continues, that should presumably 278 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: be good news for us. 279 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 6: If this continues the way it is going at the moment, 280 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 6: and we could move a little bit more into positive 281 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 6: territory with talks between Ukraine and Russia, that could be 282 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 6: bringing a little bit of pressure onto the oil price, 283 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 6: and that could be good for consumers. That would be 284 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 6: good for oil rand price. And obviously then l fuel 285 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 6: prices and letty helps lady helps mister and his inflation 286 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 6: sorry as well, of. 287 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: Course it does. Andreas Elias, thank you very much. Indeed, 288 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: Director and Currency Risk Strategistic Treasury one, and just sort 289 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: of thinking about the Reserve Bank governor and the Monetary 290 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: Policy Committee, and we have a lower inflation target, now 291 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: stronger currency the timing to keep in to keep interest 292 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: rates low while keeping inflation low. Obviously a stronger currency 293 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: means lower inflation. Well, the timing may just turn out 294 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: to be perfect. Twenty six minutes after six The Money Show, 295 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: Let's pick that up a little bit with Patrick Matidi, 296 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: head of Equities at Aliwani Capital Partners. Patrick good Evening 297 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: a stronger rand doesn't lift all boats, but certainly makes 298 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: us feel a little better. 299 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, devenand thanks for having me. Indeed, you know, it 300 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 8: is just coming through with some positivity, not only in 301 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 8: financial markets, but for those who are like enough to 302 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 8: putravening of us as holidays, you know, it does make 303 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 8: it Also it is a little bit more affordable. But 304 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 8: quite a few factors in the rants in a sort 305 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 8: of favor, both domestically and also globally. And it is 306 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 8: very very likely that this posted sentiment back continue to 307 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 8: next year. And I've seen numbers you know, being punded 308 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 8: around of sixteen and a half you know, ran to 309 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 8: the dollar, so we could quite easily get there, which 310 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 8: would be great and fantastic you know, for the local 311 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 8: economy and also for the Artok interstr is going forward. 312 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: The seppy deal, The market very happy with it there, 313 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 2: what was the eleven percent on the day. They are 314 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 2: obviously in a position where they're now rationalizing in some 315 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: ways graphic paper production, this sort of joint venture with 316 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 2: another company, I mean, in a way it's making the 317 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: best of quite a difficult situation. 318 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 8: Yeah. Absolutely, I think the market like the fact that 319 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 8: at a business model point of view, it does make 320 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 8: the ramp as you call it, a lot more you know, 321 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 8: sort of a less likely to cyclicality, so it becomes, 322 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 8: you know, becomes a lot more defensive, especially when the 323 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 8: focus becomes container boats, which are more geared towards you know, 324 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 8: the packaging side of the industry, where there is you know, 325 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 8: some relative growth compared to graphic paper. So so I 326 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 8: think that also, you know, also the fact that they're 327 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 8: getting money in, you know, that's still up the balance 328 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 8: it in terms of cutting that. But also it does 329 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 8: make the business a little less you know, cytical, a 330 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 8: lot simpler, a lot less debt, and hopefully going forward 331 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 8: and a bit more difference coming through. So in a way, 332 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 8: they've kind of packaged, you know, the more cynical, struggling 333 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 8: business into this joint venture and then they're left to 334 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 8: the business that hopefully becomes a little bit more like 335 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 8: a moundy in terms of its outlook and therefore hopefully 336 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 8: getting a bit more you know, sort of a better 337 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 8: rating in terms of itself that's going forward. 338 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: Either way. Managing a paper business nowadays has got to 339 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: be a very complicated thing. There's a sort of art 340 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 2: to managing declining demand. 341 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 8: Absolutely, especially if you look at another Europe where there 342 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 8: is plenty of capacity and the market is revery fragmented, 343 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 8: meaning the you know, it's got a lot of uh 344 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 8: let's call it in a moment pop type males there 345 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 8: to disable any of the players to have any pricing power. 346 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 7: Uh. 347 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 8: And then in the marketa district lining, you know, it 348 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 8: just becomes a lot more difficult, especially when you do 349 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 8: have a fairly sticky cost base that to contend. 350 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 2: With the Verticom is a far e comm deal. On paper, 351 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: it looks like a very good deal for Verticom. 352 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, it does. I mean it does give them effective 353 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 8: control with the fifty five cent stake in after this transaction, 354 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 8: which men therefore that there's a bit more that they 355 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 8: can do given the control. But also you know, it 356 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 8: brings it a lot closer to home and so to speak, 357 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 8: as opposed to previously where it was you at almost 358 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 8: like an arms land type of transaction. And we are 359 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 8: seeing quite a lot of activity in the space you 360 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 8: know where it's not only in our mobile network operators 361 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 8: and that you know, FinTechs, but also somewhere in the 362 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 8: middle you do have banks, you know also want to 363 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 8: play in that space, which is the payment space where 364 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 8: we are seeing quite a lot of the broke in 365 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 8: terms of volumes and the hoop proved ability. 366 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it all goes to reveal again, to show 367 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: again how much space there is, how much growth there 368 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: is in the fintech space. I mean, this is the 369 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 2: sort of hot new era era for banks, but also 370 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 2: for cell phone networks. 371 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 8: Absolutely, and to look at cell phone operators, you know 372 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 8: they're are struggling with growth in the traditional markets where 373 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 8: there are hitting federation points if you look at the 374 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 8: penetration levels, so they are on the hand for growth 375 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 8: and this is fatal ground where they're willing to pay 376 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 8: you a bit of a premium in our fall a 377 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 8: piece of that action. 378 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 2: Patrick Matidi, thanks so much. Ready to appreciate the time, 379 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: the head of equities added multi asset Strategies at Aliwani 380 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: Capital Partners. Ready to appreciate the time. There well plenty 381 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 2: to come in the next little while. We'll talk about 382 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: the new gold mine on the ADVTIS runts just go 383 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 2: on six thirty What upped. 384 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: Stephen on seventy two seven oh two one seven two. 385 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 2: Well, I asked a few moments ago, what would it 386 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: take for you to trust McKinsey again. They are saying 387 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: that they're actually finding it quite difficult to get business 388 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 2: in South Africa. Responses to that question, I. 389 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 9: Really don't think that we should welcome them back into 390 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 9: this country. We don't want them back. We don't trust them. 391 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 9: I know they may have changed management, doesn't matter. They 392 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 9: tried to take this country for a rod. They must 393 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 9: suffer longer. Honestly, I know that sounds harsh, but in 394 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 9: all honesty, nobody went to jail for what they did. 395 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 9: They must actually, they must not be given the opportunity 396 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 9: to come back. 397 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: Sounds like a very friendly dog in the background. I 398 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 2: have to say, it sounds like it's ready for its 399 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 2: walk or something. I was reminded by someone actually a 400 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 2: couple of moments ago, because I made the point that 401 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: maybe there is a difference between Bain and McKinsey, and 402 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: business said, well, actually Bain did sort of admit wrongdoing. 403 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: McKinsey didn't, and so that might actually, now that I 404 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: think about it, make McKenzie worse than Bain. Anyway, your thoughts, 405 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: what would it take, what would it take for you 406 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: to trust them again? And how do you feel if 407 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 2: a government department suddenly was getting business from Bain and 408 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: from McKinsey. Twenty one minutes now to seven. 409 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: The Loanly Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two 410 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 3: point seven and one o six FM, streaming on the 411 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 3: Prime Media Plus. 412 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five. 413 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 2: Six seventeen minutes now to seven the time. Well, you 414 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 2: or I suppose your children might remember that half of 415 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 2: the gold that has ever been mine by human beings 416 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: has come from the Vdvarta's Runt basin gold mining, diamond 417 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 2: mining a bit before. It kind of did probably more 418 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: than anything else to create I suppose, really the country 419 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: and the economy, the system of money we have in 420 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: South Africa now. So it surprised me and it might 421 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 2: surprise you to find that what one hundred and forty 422 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: years eighteen eighty six is the discovery of golden what 423 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 2: is now joe Berg. Earlier today a new mine opened 424 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 2: on the Vadvatas runt is called Kuala Shallows. The CEO 425 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: of Westwitz is also the group md is Rudy Dacil Rudy. 426 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 2: Good evening. I have to say I was surprise to 427 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 2: find that they're still mineable mineral deposits of gold in 428 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: this area. 429 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 5: Bye Stevens, thank you for having me. Yeah, no, it's 430 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 5: a great day. It's actually a virginant piece of ground 431 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 5: that's still there today and you Today is a big 432 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 5: day for us. We officially started to open the mine 433 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 5: for mine that will produce gold over seventeen years. 434 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: How deep do you have to go? I mean, was 435 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 2: there a reason that this area wasn't mine before? Imagine 436 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: technologies moved on as well. 437 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think you know we are actually mining 438 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 5: from surface any up to eight hundred and fifty meters, 439 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 5: which means it's really a shallow gold mine. But this 440 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 5: area I think was purely because I've never mind, because 441 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 5: of the gold price at which the time when they 442 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 5: closed the mind the gold price was at two hundred 443 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 5: and fifteen dollars pounds. And then obviously with technology and 444 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 5: the specific old body which were deemed as lower grade 445 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 5: gold in those days, at these gold prices, it makes 446 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 5: sense to mine it and it's actually a brilliant project. 447 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: So obviously, as you say, the price of gold's at 448 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 2: record levels, how expecting how expensive are you expecting your 449 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: gold production to be? I suppose what I'm really asking 450 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: is what is your break even point? Where does the 451 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: gold price need to be for you to break even? 452 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 5: So our break even point is at twelve and eighty 453 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 5: one dollars per ounce, So at these prices it's actually 454 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 5: a very very profitable project and business. So and because 455 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 5: we are so shallow, we are able to actually mine 456 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 5: at such a low or in sustained cost. 457 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 2: I was going to say, I mean, I realized that 458 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: the depth has a big point to play. But also 459 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 2: you're making I mean nearly three thousand dollars an ounce 460 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 2: I mean that's I mean, that's just amazing. Are you 461 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 2: able to employ a lot of people to do this? 462 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: We've been watching that mining sector, the class, especially the 463 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 2: gold sector of the last sort of twenty thirty years 464 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: to have a fresh new mind, I mean good news 465 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 2: for a lot of people in that industry. Yes. 466 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 5: Look, so for this phase what we call color Shallow, 467 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 5: that's really only the first phase of this project. We 468 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 5: are going to employ one thousand people, and our aspirations 469 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 5: is to actually increase our production from a city state 470 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 5: of seventy thousand answer span and up to two hundred 471 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 5: thousand arncers span and which will mean that that's what 472 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 5: we'll have the potential to create a lot more jobs 473 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 5: in that area, which is a great economic boost for 474 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 5: that specific area. 475 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: I presume you've done quite a lot of sort of 476 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: geological work on how big this sort of section of 477 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 2: reef is, what you'll get from it. You're quite precise 478 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: seventeen years of production, you reckon. Are there any other 479 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 2: areas that you know of on the advatas round Reef 480 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 2: that could still be mined at a profit? 481 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 10: No? 482 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 5: Absolutely, Look, this is probably the area that have the 483 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 5: most confidence in the geology itself because of the historical 484 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 5: knowledge of this area. But look, we've done a lot 485 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 5: of additional drilling and additional modeling, and then you know 486 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 5: that's extremely a lot of technical work to get to 487 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 5: this point. So we know there's more and we believe 488 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 5: we will be able to actually develop more. 489 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 2: Because you're doing this because you knew, because it's in karting, 490 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: because it's shallow, and there are the gold mines still 491 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 2: in South Africa? Are you finding it? Are you going 492 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: to find it much cheaper to produce gold than they are? 493 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: I mean, they certainly have a new kid on the 494 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: block is able to do it much more cheaply than 495 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 2: they can well. 496 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 5: Look, I think the model that we follow where where 497 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 5: we are not only the shallow, but we believe in 498 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 5: a very flat structure and we don't believe in a 499 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 5: lot of overheads. And the main for us is to 500 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 5: to really have a profitable mind rather than more assets 501 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 5: to increase market gap. So so I think the model 502 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 5: that we follow, we believe we could produce at the 503 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 5: lower price and hopefully we can create more projects at 504 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 5: the start of units cost. 505 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 2: I would like to think government is welcoming this with 506 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: open arms. I mean everyone must be pretty pleased with you. 507 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 5: No, absolutely, looka we had a we had a Minister 508 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 5: Matasha today at our opening and he was extremely positive 509 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 5: about this and it's great useful South Africa. It's great 510 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 5: that we actually got some external investment in this country 511 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 5: and for us, it's great to develop this this project 512 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 5: and to look. 513 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 11: At more more growth. 514 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: Really, thank you very much. Indeed really Dasil, the CEO 515 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: and Group MD of West Viz. I mean I remember 516 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 2: in standard to a learning all about the form, the 517 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 2: creation and the sort of organization of gold mining, the 518 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: history of it. In Johannesburg, there's a statue right at 519 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 2: the border between jobeg and ekor Leni across the road 520 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 2: from one of the major shopping centers of supposedly, you 521 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 2: know the the depicting the moment that someone discovered gold 522 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: in karting and what that meant and still one hundred 523 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 2: and forty years later, another gold mine is opening, just astonishing. 524 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 2: Ten minutes to seven. 525 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 12: The Money Show Steeple Protest is brought to you by 526 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 12: Abscess cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets across Africa. 527 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 12: Download the ABSTH Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty twenty five. 528 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 1: On The Money Show six to eight pm. 529 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: The Money Show is in conversation with Momentum discussing the 530 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 2: importance so focus in the science of a success. Well, 531 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 2: you'll know we've been talking about this over the last 532 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: couple of weeks and we tend to presume that financial 533 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: success comes from lack from timing, from basically being able 534 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: to earn the big money. But Momentum Science of Success 535 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: campaign suggests it's really about the science of behavior. Tonight 536 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: we are joined by Yasmind Fermi. She's just completed her 537 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: Money Fingerprint assessment. She's a style icon, entrepreneur and creative 538 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: power high House I can tell you she's much better 539 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: addressed than I am. And Paul Nixon is the momentum 540 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: head of behavioral finance. Back with us. Good evening to 541 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: you both. Thank you so much for coming in, Yasmin. 542 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: The Money Fingerprint, it's not a sort of normal money quiz. 543 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: It looks at your fears, your memories, your instincts, sometimes 544 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: how you identify yourself. What was it like to sit 545 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 2: down with the tool that's all about money but doesn't 546 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: actually ask you about money. It asks you more about 547 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: the why. It was quite confronting, Stephen. 548 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 10: I think sometimes you don't think sort of you know, 549 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 10: about those sorts of questions when we think about money, 550 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 10: it's Morris, well, I'm spending it on this, so I'm 551 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 10: not spending it on that. 552 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: You never question your behavior or why you behave that way. 553 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 10: And I think when you consider how you've grown up, 554 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 10: perhaps how money you were spoken about, agreements, disagreements in 555 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 10: your home, whether you had or whether you didn't, I 556 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 10: think informs your the way you behave as you sort 557 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 10: of go on into your life in a more independent way. 558 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 10: And I don't think we ever think about it in 559 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 10: that that way. 560 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 2: I mean, in your in your game. I shouldn't call 561 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 2: it a game. But in your industry, there's a lot 562 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,719 Speaker 2: of you have to really reinvent yourself. It's about fashions, 563 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: about creativity, it's about entrepreneurship. Were the defining moments that 564 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 2: I suppose shaped your sense of financial independence? I'm a 565 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 2: moment where maybe thought, oh, now this is why I 566 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 2: kind of am the way I am when it comes 567 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: to money. 568 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 10: Well, I think, I mean growing up it was always 569 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 10: we had what we needed, but it was never more 570 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 10: than that. Yeah, And I think when I graduated and 571 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 10: got my first job, it was okay. 572 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: Now what can I buy? 573 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 10: Of course, but I mean, like you said, you never 574 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 10: think about why that is. So that would be the 575 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 10: first thing you say, what can I buy? But when 576 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 10: you look back, you know exactly why that behavior is 577 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 10: that way. And I think when I started the business 578 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 10: with my friend, the business that we are in in fashion, 579 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 10: there was another sense of oh wow, this is really 580 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 10: something that we can do and we are able to 581 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 10: do it, and it was something quite liberating and another 582 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 10: sense of great independence because I think that's what I 583 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 10: always wanted in my life, was to be financially independent. 584 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: I mean, Paul Yasmin comes from a world that's kind 585 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: of unpredictable. I mean, I have no idea where hems 586 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: are going to be next week. I mean, fashion is 587 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 2: deliberately unpredictable. It's about expression. But some people, I don't 588 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: know what this is like. But they're in accounting, they're 589 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 2: in medicine, they're in laws, all very you can kind 590 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: of tell fifteen years out this is what I'm going 591 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: to earn. I mean, those cultures around those careers that 592 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 2: must shape how people sort of understand and perceive financial risk. Yes, 593 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: I mean at risk is. 594 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 13: Very much dependent on the person and also the situation, right, 595 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 13: So you could very well have a sort of a 596 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 13: doctor who is very conservative in their investment approach, and 597 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 13: you could have others that are very sort of risk seeking, right, 598 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 13: So it's about you know, they've studied this quite a 599 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 13: bit as well. Entrepreneurs in general are quite risk seeking, 600 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,719 Speaker 13: obviously because you're taking a lot of risk. But it 601 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 13: was interesting about Yasmin's profile was that she actually wasn't 602 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 13: classified as a risk taker, you know, and it sort 603 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 13: of came out in the conversation. There was a hasband 604 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 13: that was actually sort of prompting her, you know, nudging 605 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 13: her on right to take the risk. So it's important 606 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 13: you know that the lesson there is important as well 607 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 13: to understand yourself and also to understand the impact and 608 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 13: the inflants of. 609 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 2: The people around you. I mean there are moments, pau 610 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: when when when something happens on the markets, I don't know, 611 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: the Trump administration does something, and you feel that sense 612 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: of panic you look at I mean you can imagine 613 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: during certain moments during the pandemic, you look at what's 614 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: happening to the markets and you think, I must do something. 615 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: What's happening inside us when we do that, I mean 616 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: we're suddenly very emotional, and everyone in this game tells 617 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 2: me that's the worst moment time to act. 618 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 13: Yes, we crave you know, people crave certainty. So they've 619 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 13: done an interesting experiment as well where they actually found 620 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 13: out that people would prefer one hundred percent chance of 621 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 13: an electric shock then a fifty percent of an electric shock, right, say, 622 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 13: you just want that kind of certainty, You just want 623 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 13: to know when it's coming. So when that's taken away 624 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 13: from us, we have this sort of impulse to act. 625 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 13: I mean you saw during COVID you mentioned now, I 626 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 13: mean people literally there were life arts of a toilet 627 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 13: paper in malls. You know it's crazy behavior, So you 628 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 13: know that really really goes same as applicable to financial markets. 629 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 13: We use things like machine learning to understand patterns of 630 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 13: behavior and to study the behavior tax or what the 631 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 13: impact of these financial decisions are making. And of course 632 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 13: the money finger print sort of ties into the psychological 633 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 13: aspect of those decisions. 634 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 2: Yesmnaminial entire career is more about meaning than about sort 635 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 2: of material. When you look at where you want to 636 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 2: put your money, where you want to invest your money, 637 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: I presume it's sort of art. Maybe it's travel, experience. 638 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: What is worth the money for you? What is worth 639 00:33:58,680 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: spending on? 640 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 10: I think I've had two phases of what I thought 641 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 10: was worth spending money on. When I was a lot younger, 642 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 10: I thought it was worth spending money on shoes and bags. Sure, 643 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 10: silly things like that. Well maybe not silly, but they 644 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 10: were important to me at the time. But as I've 645 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 10: gotten older, I think experiences are more important to me. 646 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 10: I love travel, so definitely that art for sure. Yeah, 647 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 10: But I think travel for me because that is I 648 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 10: would I would say that over anything of all. 649 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: I mean a lot of people gravitate towards experiences. Now 650 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: there's a generational shift in this. I want the memories 651 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 2: or social media picks or whatever, and not the stations. 652 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: I mean, what does that reveal about how they relate 653 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: to money? 654 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean I think for the trenders, you want 655 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 13: to make money work for you, So you know, depending 656 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 13: on what your preferences are, you've got to make. Obviously, 657 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 13: money is a keen able of those preferences. So I 658 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 13: think the most important thing there is just understanding the 659 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 13: trade off and planning. So you know, just understand that 660 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 13: you're going to be sort of going seize it, but you 661 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 13: know you're not going to have You're not necessarily gonna 662 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 13: have the yacht or the second or third or fourth 663 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 13: house in your retirement. 664 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 2: It's going to come at a cost. 665 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 13: But of course you understand, you know the benefit that 666 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 13: you're getting from that trade offf that you're making. So 667 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 13: it's all about understanding the tradeoffs and making money work 668 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 13: for you. 669 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: Yesmen, I mean you need a really sharp eye right 670 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 2: when you do what you do, it needs to speak. 671 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 2: You need to use a lot of precision. Taste is 672 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 2: a big thing when you manage your finances. Do you 673 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 2: see yourself doing the same thing as there been a 674 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 2: time when you think, well, actually, maybe I'm paying too 675 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 2: much attention. I'm obsessing about this. 676 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 10: I think I do obsess a lot. And well, my 677 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 10: partner is exactly the same. We both come from similar background, 678 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 10: so we are a lot more cautious with the things 679 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 10: that we do. We don't just you know, spend will Nelly. 680 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 10: We find the right prices, we make the right amount, 681 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 10: we don't overproduce, so we do keep a keen eye 682 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 10: on where the money goes. 683 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 2: Paul, I mean a lot of people, you know, you 684 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 2: spend time because you can on your phone now sort 685 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 2: of micromanaging. You're looking at the dashboard every day. I mean, 686 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 2: how do you sort of break out of that micromanaging markets? 687 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 2: How do you get away from obsessing about that and 688 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 2: watching TikTok and focusing on the longer term. Yeah, I 689 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 2: mean that's a great question. 690 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 13: Something we've seen Rich is very interesting is that people's 691 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 13: engagement since COVID has has increased a lot. So people 692 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 13: are tracking these things, monitoring these things, becoming obsessed about 693 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 13: how many hours they sleep every night, and then getting 694 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 13: stressed about not sleeping enough. And you know, so I 695 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,359 Speaker 13: think what you have to do is and I mean 696 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 13: this really is a trick. You know, it's good to 697 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 13: have a financial advisor involved here to try and focus 698 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 13: you on the long term as opposed to these short 699 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 13: term things. You might do things like deleting the kind 700 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 13: of apps like if you're trading stocks, maybe delete the app, 701 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 13: or maybe have a certain set of rules around you know, 702 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,720 Speaker 13: when and how you can look and make decisions around 703 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 13: those you know, around stock trading, for example. But you've 704 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 13: got to definitely try and very much focus on the 705 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 13: long term. 706 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 2: And Paul, I mean, if you want to understand your 707 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 2: your own emotional wiring around money or join the Science 708 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 2: of Success festival, where do you start? 709 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 13: Yeah, go to many Fingerprint dot Serra today and start there. 710 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: Paul, thank you very much. Indeed, por Nixons they had 711 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 2: a behavior of finance at Momentum yesmin for me, good 712 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: to meet you, creative director and fashioniste. Life has a 713 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 2: funny way of testing your focus those moments when big 714 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 2: decisions demand your full attention. That's when having a momentum 715 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,479 Speaker 2: accredited financial advisor makes all the difference, helping you cut 716 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 2: through the noise with advice that fits your life, because 717 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 2: success favors the focused. It's seven o'clock. 718 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: And now The Money. 719 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 2: Show with Stephen credits on seven oh two. 720 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: Let's walk little. 721 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Crotus has brought to you 722 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 2: by Absence cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets 723 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 2: across Africa. Download the Absent Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty 724 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 2: twenty five. Eight minutes after seven, the time plenty to come. 725 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 2: We get a tech update with c Pomeolelez looking at 726 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 2: the games industry, which of course is just huge, getting 727 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 2: bigger all the time, and you can play in so 728 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 2: many different ways. Loncerdor twent to air the managing director 729 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 2: Advantage Advisory and Small Business Focus. He's looking at some 730 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 2: of the places that he reckons you should go to 731 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 2: over the Descemer period. I'll give you a hint. None 732 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 2: of them involve the coast. Here's a particular Russia. Noale 733 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 2: and then Investment School. Tonight are sunder Nautche and Chantel 734 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 2: Marx looking at the role of the US Federal Reserve. 735 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 2: They're due to make an interest rate decision next week 736 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 2: and why it affects your investments. I thought that was 737 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 2: a very interesting topic. Looking forward to that good year 738 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 2: from you tonight on a double one double A three 739 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 2: oh seven oh two two one four four, six oh 740 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 2: five six seven of course voice notes on seven two 741 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two. 742 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 3: The Lanely Show with Stephen Kruders Live on ninety two 743 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 3: point seven and one o six FM, streaming on the 744 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 3: Prime Media Plus. 745 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,240 Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six. 746 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 2: See Sapanya sending us a WhatsApp about MC saying they 747 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 2: were banned from doing business in the UK. They've been 748 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 2: found wanting dealing with the gryptors. How they're allowed to 749 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 2: get involved in the G twenty here in South Africa? 750 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 2: What was their role? I don't think they can be 751 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 2: trusted as yet. What would have made them see is rehabilitated. 752 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 2: It's really worrying to even think about that now. So 753 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 2: my understanding of it is they weren't involved in the 754 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: G twenty, but in the B twenty, and they've kind 755 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 2: of provided sort of backroom services, and I think they 756 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 2: did that for free. And I think that's actually a 757 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 2: comment that's actually referenced in the Bloomberg article. I need 758 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 2: to just go and check it again, but I think 759 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 2: it was and essentially, I think that is a way 760 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 2: to try and get back. Someone didn't mention though, and 761 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 2: they might have mentioned it on the radio, I can't remember. 762 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 2: But you know, just something like that gives you access 763 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 2: to all sorts of interesting people, and that access that's 764 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 2: those sort of networks is what a consultancy like McKinsey wants. 765 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 2: And would like to just make a point and make 766 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 2: a comment to you about Oppah Markaschule, who is the 767 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 2: former Saras commission who actually passed away earlier this week. 768 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 2: And I didn't have a huge amount to do with them, 769 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 2: but from time to time, for I shut up with 770 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 2: this various reasons. He and I would have a phone 771 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 2: conversation about issues in the environment, and there was a 772 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 2: time when he was quite important in terms of just 773 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 2: explaining to me certain things. And I know that he 774 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 2: left Tars under a little bit of a cloud. It 775 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 2: wasn't sort of straight corruption, but he made what I 776 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 2: thought at the time was a sort of simple mistake, 777 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 2: and I think he probably felt a bit silly about it. 778 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 2: He went into other things at the time. He actually 779 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 2: ran a factory in joe Burg after that that was 780 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 2: making cell phones at one point, but let me just 781 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 2: tell you my memory of Oppa Marcoschule is that he 782 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 2: was someone who was willing to share what he knew 783 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 2: to a journalist when not everyone wants to do that 784 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 2: or has the time or the inclination to do that. 785 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 2: I also felt that he was a very kind person 786 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 2: and and this is important too, someone to whom facts matter. 787 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 2: So I know people will most likely remember him unless 788 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 2: they knew him personally in his role at SARS. But 789 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 2: I'll always remember him as someone who I've really enjoyed 790 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 2: just ringing up for a chat and someone who would 791 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 2: sort of share things. You know, nothing do special, nothing shattering, 792 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 2: nothing illegal, nothing in none of that, but just someone 793 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 2: who I thought deserved in a way a better end 794 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 2: than he received. Let me put it like that. So, sir, 795 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 2: I'm sorry to hear that you've left us, and I'm 796 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 2: thinking very much of your family. I'll remember you incredibly fondly, 797 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 2: and I hope that many other people do too. Actually, 798 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 2: if you worked with Open, you might want to share 799 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 2: your memory of him. 800 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: How many show take Thursday. 801 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 2: Well time to look at the gaming industry. We of 802 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 2: course have Africa's biggest gaming industry in the Rage Gaming 803 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 2: Expo is taking place this weekend, the biggest gaming event 804 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 2: on the continent. I think if you think of gaming, 805 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 2: you might think of something that you do on the phone, 806 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 2: But PC gaming PCs are huge and the industry is 807 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 2: worth billions upon billions of Randsmalella Zomdie is our tech 808 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 2: experts from Lela Good evening, I spoke about PC gaming, 809 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 2: but I mean, there's so many different types. What kind 810 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 2: of gamings? What kind of gaming is sort of doing 811 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: well at the moment. 812 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 11: Also the s gaming Hello season and tranks very much 813 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 11: for heaving me again. But all kinds of gaming is 814 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 11: actually doing really well at the moment. Because you may 815 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 11: think about consoles, but a lot of people are on 816 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 11: there more about devices, and we often talk about the 817 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 11: different types of games that are also sometimes in two 818 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 11: stuff that people watch and em bet on. And also 819 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 11: when you look at, for example, social media, you might 820 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 11: even observe people competing in a video game and as 821 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 11: they are live streaming their session on various social media platforms. 822 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 11: So all kinds of gaming is actually doing really really 823 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 11: well at the moment. 824 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 2: I mean, what makes gaming so popular? And in a 825 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 2: way it's a silly question. The one thing I would 826 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 2: have to say if you look at sort of a 827 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 2: game being played on a PS four or PC or 828 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 2: something like that and on many phones, is the sheer 829 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 2: quality of the production is off the charts. It is 830 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 2: really a good example of why good execution can be 831 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 2: so effective. The games are of incredibly high quality. 832 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 11: It totally again the high quality, but at the same 833 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 11: time there's also the wider availability as well off devices 834 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 11: that people can play video games on, and an increase 835 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 11: availability of these devices with your cheaper monitors for example, 836 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 11: that have good graphics that people can observe video games on. 837 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 11: It also with the increase availability of affordable internet connection 838 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,800 Speaker 11: because in the past we used to hear as for example, 839 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 11: when professional gamers are trying to play against I FLOA overseas, 840 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 11: you find that they might end up not completely think 841 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 11: a game because it will freeze them part later. It 842 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 11: wasn't very great, but the improvement of that has also 843 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 11: improved a wonder number of people that play games, the 844 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,399 Speaker 11: quality of games, the quality of the experience that people 845 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 11: are also finding, which also helps with the popularity. 846 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 2: I see that in Africa. I mean PwC is an 847 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 2: entertainment and media outlook and they say South Africa, Nigeria 848 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 2: and Kenya our generating over six hundred million US dollars 849 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 2: in gaming revenue. I mean that's a huge amount of money. 850 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 2: Is that just some consumption. 851 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 11: It's both consumption. There's also an increasing create a space 852 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 11: where people are are now starting to create and localize 853 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 11: some of the contents that you'll find in video games 854 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 11: as well, because in the past you find that a 855 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 11: lot of the storylines were not our storylines and also 856 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 11: gamified our spaces and education for example, where there would 857 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 11: be learning and because the content is done through a 858 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 11: gamified a method when people are playing those video games 859 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 11: and documenting some of what happens in their area. So 860 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 11: there is an increase and increasing video games creation space 861 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 11: for development space as well. That's happening on the African continent. 862 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,319 Speaker 2: I know gaming can be competitive. I mean I've listened 863 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 2: to a teenage boy gaming when he's gaming against friends, 864 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 2: and I mean, you know the language. I presume it's 865 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 2: different to leisure gaming though, like really competitive gaming is 866 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 2: is quite something and. 867 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 11: It's also worth millions and millions of rem as well. 868 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 11: So you find these teenagers who are competing across borders 869 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 11: across the world while sitting in their bedrooms with the 870 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 11: hope to earn money, or sometimes you find them in 871 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 11: spaces light their rage game and expo for example the 872 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 11: second Place in Johannesburg currently where you find them in 873 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 11: rooms and or competing at an event like that, where 874 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 11: they're sitting next to each other, but they're in a 875 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,240 Speaker 11: competition against one another. And various tournaments like You're vs. 876 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 11: Gaming as tournament as well, where they are playing against 877 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 11: each other, so it's quite competitive. It's different from leisure gaming. 878 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 11: They're complete scross forward that sometimes they're events that happen 879 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 11: in a single space, in a single room, like any 880 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 11: sporting tournament would. 881 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 2: Be happening events like the Rage Gaming Expert. I mean, so, Promelina, 882 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 2: I have to ask this question, these are gamers? Are 883 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 2: there actually all right with human beings? I mean, do 884 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 2: they know what to do when they meet each other? 885 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 11: Well, when they meet each other, yes, they'll talk about games, 886 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 11: they'll talk about where to find their games, but the 887 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 11: most important thing is to find out the latest trends 888 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 11: that are available, but also to sit next to each 889 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 11: other and compete as well. But also people are leisure 890 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,839 Speaker 11: gamers also go to such events as well. And they 891 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 11: find out about and sometimes they might actually even meet 892 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,919 Speaker 11: their favorite characters in human form when they go into 893 00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,399 Speaker 11: these spaces. 894 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 2: Thanks very much. Indeed, I get a sense you're having 895 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 2: a good time there. See Pomlele Zondie, our tech expert 896 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 2: talking about the rage or we go from gaming to 897 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 2: the plate light in a moment only on the Money Show, the. 898 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: Money showed small business focus. 899 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if you've decided yet what you're 900 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 2: doing over the Christmas season, and you're probably going home 901 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 2: or going on holiday somewhere, but a strong call that 902 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 2: maybe you should spend your time away from the coast 903 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 2: and some of the more well less explored parts of 904 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 2: our country. It comes from longad On Tente, the managing 905 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 2: director Advantage Advantgary laund or Good Evening. You know, there's 906 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 2: plenty of small businesses involved in tourism, lots of small 907 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 2: sort of AB and B places and the interior of 908 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 2: the country. Why do you think we should go inland 909 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 2: rather than to the coast with everyone else? Yes, Good evening. 910 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 14: Of course from next week everyone is business just planning 911 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 14: to close off and of course everyon to the you know, 912 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 14: and I said, there's nothing wrong with that. Especially everyone 913 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 14: will be head down to Western Cape. You know, that's 914 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 14: an obvious suspects. Everyone will be heading towards Deban or 915 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,400 Speaker 14: Kruger National Park, right, So there's nothing wrong with it. 916 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 14: Those are very important places into the economy of this country. However, 917 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:13,879 Speaker 14: when I thought about it, I said, you know what, 918 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,840 Speaker 14: there's still a lot more that we have in this country. 919 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 14: And most of the time these are some of the 920 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 14: head and gems that we don't actually visit. So everyone 921 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,760 Speaker 14: is heading to all of these crystal towns, the crowded 922 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 14: and all of that. 923 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 2: But if you want to experience the. 924 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 14: Beauty of South Africa, the true essence of Bundu, small 925 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 14: towns are some of those towns that will give you 926 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,799 Speaker 14: that true experience. And in my article I talk about, 927 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 14: for instance, some of the small towns like if you 928 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,800 Speaker 14: head down to say Together that are in the midlands, 929 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 14: you go to Nottingham Road, beautiful places. You head down 930 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 14: to Underbeck. These are the places that are closer to 931 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,919 Speaker 14: the Dragons mountains and and the locals. When you book 932 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 14: they the next day, everyone knows your name, you know, 933 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 14: everyone checks up, how did you slip and all of that, 934 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 14: and that's what South Africa is about. You know, you 935 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 14: had as well to Thincpe. I talk about we've got 936 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 14: the end to now Wild Coast Road project. It's going 937 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 14: to start to open up more to some of the 938 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 14: smaller towns. Before that, we never looked at the likes 939 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,400 Speaker 14: of for instance, sports and joints. It's a beautiful, beautiful 940 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,399 Speaker 14: small town in the wild Coast. And if you want 941 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,880 Speaker 14: to experience the Wild Coast, it's called head down to 942 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 14: percent jurns beautiful c views as well. So these are 943 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 14: some of the hidden podcets that I think the South Africans, 944 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 14: if you don't want to really go to the cost 945 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 14: of course, look at. 946 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:31,760 Speaker 2: Some of these small towns. 947 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,280 Speaker 14: And but most importantly, it's not just about just visiting 948 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 14: the small towns, but it's about the multiplier impact that 949 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 14: you do when you visit. Right, the locals truly appreciate visitors. 950 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,399 Speaker 14: And that's what I'm saying right now that I think, 951 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 14: let's look at how we spend our money, and almost 952 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 14: of the Affricans, they spend a lot of mine non 953 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,399 Speaker 14: travel all right, if you look at the steps last 954 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 14: year we spend over two hundred billion just on tourism 955 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,799 Speaker 14: on Aislona, right, so that means that there's a huge 956 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,160 Speaker 14: there's huge opportunities that we can actually explore and basically 957 00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,800 Speaker 14: just spread across the only obvious. 958 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 2: Towns that we have in South Africa. I always think 959 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,800 Speaker 2: when I think of small towns South Africa, I always 960 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 2: think of the sort of Northern Cape, the karow that 961 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 2: kind of area. Very different landscape to what you have 962 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 2: in Gerbik, very different to what you have in Casa 963 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,319 Speaker 2: then and people who, as you say, don't see a 964 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,000 Speaker 2: lot of people. You know, if you drive a houting 965 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,719 Speaker 2: number of play people are going to notice absolutely. 966 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,320 Speaker 14: And and that's what I'm saying, that's the true essence 967 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,920 Speaker 14: of That's why you get the true essence of Ubundu. 968 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 14: You know, everyone has the generosity, the warmth of South 969 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,879 Speaker 14: Africans when you visit them. It's something that we have 970 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 14: to really look at and we have to sell to 971 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,840 Speaker 14: the world. I mean, talk about Northern Cape for instance. 972 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,960 Speaker 14: You've got Sutherlands, right, it's a beautiful small town. Beautifully 973 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 14: if you want to see the best views when it 974 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,320 Speaker 14: comes to the sky and the stars in South Africa, 975 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,160 Speaker 14: head down. You know around the Sutherland we've got the 976 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 14: biggest telescope in the southern hemis here down there, right, 977 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,319 Speaker 14: So these are some of these places that we have 978 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,319 Speaker 14: to say, listen, who goes there? 979 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 6: You know? 980 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 14: Is it only international people or US US you know? 981 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,200 Speaker 14: And and and thus what we have to start looking at. 982 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,240 Speaker 14: And I think if we do that, we are really 983 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,759 Speaker 14: promoting some of these small towns. We know most of 984 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 14: the time they've got challenges, you know, when it comes 985 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,360 Speaker 14: to infrastructure, all of these things. But the more we 986 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 14: show interest, I think what it does it also pushes 987 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 14: the municipalities to really look at the impact that if 988 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 14: they're not maintaining these towns, you know that it has 989 00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:32,560 Speaker 14: on them. 990 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 2: Young I would imagine you also get really good value 991 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 2: for money. I mean, if you want to, I mean, 992 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 2: go and look at plate and look at that, and 993 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,840 Speaker 2: look at this. You'll see such a huge difference. 994 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,720 Speaker 14: The impact about this is that you should ever rand 995 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 14: that that you spend. You know, in these small times, 996 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 14: there's a huge impact, right. And Tourism is one of 997 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 14: those sectors that cuts across you know, it's accommodation is 998 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 14: food is few well and all of that, right, and 999 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 14: and and the vally for money in terms of how 1000 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:10,440 Speaker 14: you spend across everything usually becomes affordable. 1001 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,920 Speaker 2: Right, and and and and. 1002 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,839 Speaker 14: And security as well, And that's one of the most 1003 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,839 Speaker 14: important part. Securities in these small towns is something that 1004 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 14: you well are shured because the locals, they know that 1005 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,320 Speaker 14: they can't afford to have a situation where the toriest 1006 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 14: specifically are either a TechEd and all of that. So 1007 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,600 Speaker 14: it gives you that assurance that I know, most job 1008 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,839 Speaker 14: because usually what about security, you know, so I think 1009 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 14: that call if some other people have not yet really 1010 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 14: looked at in terms of where they're going. Consider you know, 1011 00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,560 Speaker 14: I even wrote about Limpopo. Most people when they think 1012 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 14: about Limpopo, they think of Kruger, right, go to Toyrandle. 1013 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 14: You know, they've got a place called Damn and all 1014 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,279 Speaker 14: of those things. These are beautiful landscape, beautiful nature when 1015 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 14: you visit these places. And the more we do that 1016 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,359 Speaker 14: and we bring these places into as you said, into 1017 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,839 Speaker 14: social media and all of that, people start to pay 1018 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 14: interest is there also, So if you want to start 1019 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,919 Speaker 14: a small business in one of these places, I mean, 1020 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 14: you need the local knowledge. 1021 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 2: You don't need to own any property. A coach, you know, 1022 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,200 Speaker 2: a high ice would probably help a little bit if 1023 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 2: you could do that. But you could probably rent it 1024 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,800 Speaker 2: for big weekends if you need it to or something, 1025 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,919 Speaker 2: or borrow it from a friend or whatever. You don't 1026 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,360 Speaker 2: need a lot of money, but you can have people employed. 1027 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 2: I mean they used to say, I don't know if 1028 00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 2: it's still true that one foreign tourist in South Africa 1029 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 2: will sort of tend well, you know, I think's ten 1030 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,880 Speaker 2: foreign tourists was one job absolutely. 1031 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,360 Speaker 14: So I think what is important about these places is 1032 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,400 Speaker 14: that you'll notice most of these small towns they depend 1033 00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,439 Speaker 14: either on one industry really boost that could either agriculture 1034 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 14: and everyone is just in agriculture or being supported supported 1035 00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 14: by government. And the biggest challenge around that, even if 1036 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,160 Speaker 14: you want to study businesses around that is that is 1037 00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 14: government of municipality really as I said, maintaining the infrastructure 1038 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,520 Speaker 14: really coming or partnering with the lockhouse. And that is 1039 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,279 Speaker 14: usually one of those challenges that usually find it. But 1040 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 14: the more we promote some of the more offences. I mean, 1041 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:10,480 Speaker 14: they're not till midlers. 1042 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,600 Speaker 2: You know. I've seen it really grow. 1043 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,719 Speaker 14: I've seen it with the property prices now everyone is 1044 00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,360 Speaker 14: starting to buy over there because there has this small 1045 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:18,799 Speaker 14: town that are secluded. 1046 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,840 Speaker 2: It is very safe. So the more. 1047 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,840 Speaker 14: People come in, the more impact. Basically that he just 1048 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 14: created theron a small time. Yeah, clad always so good 1049 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,240 Speaker 14: to see it. Thank you so much. Is a managing 1050 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,920 Speaker 14: director Advantage Advisory. 1051 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,439 Speaker 1: The Money Show Investment School. 1052 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,520 Speaker 2: Twenty four minutes now to eight the time, So an 1053 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,279 Speaker 2: investment school tonight. We're going to discuss the role of 1054 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,319 Speaker 2: the US Federal Reserve, which is sort of like we're 1055 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,799 Speaker 2: pretty much like our reserve bank, and in particular the 1056 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,880 Speaker 2: decisions that it makes around interest rates and the impact 1057 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 2: that they have on your investments. And you'll have heard 1058 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,959 Speaker 2: us talk about the US Federal Reserve all the time. 1059 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,280 Speaker 2: I've lost count of the number of times in business 1060 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,439 Speaker 2: reports on seven O two and five six seven Cape Talk, 1061 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 2: I've spoken about interest rate expectations in the US and 1062 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 2: what they're doing to US stock markets, but they have 1063 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,200 Speaker 2: a big impact on your investments here in South Africa too. 1064 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,840 Speaker 2: Chantel Marx is the head of Equity Research and Eferty 1065 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,440 Speaker 2: Wealth and Investments. Sunder Nache here's the chief investment officer 1066 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,120 Speaker 2: at MAZI Asset Management. Thanks to you both for your time. 1067 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,040 Speaker 2: Are ready to appreciate it. Chantel, let me just start 1068 00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 2: with you on this. I accept that the US has 1069 00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 2: the world's biggest economy. For now, how important does the 1070 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,520 Speaker 2: US Federal Reserve compared to other central banks? So if 1071 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,000 Speaker 2: we take, say I don't know the Central Bank of 1072 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 2: Canada or the SAB or the Bank of England, how 1073 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,240 Speaker 2: important is the FED compared to other central banks? 1074 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,520 Speaker 15: So I think the answer lies in your introduction. The 1075 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,280 Speaker 15: US is the world's biggest economy, so if it's central 1076 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,680 Speaker 15: bank makes a decision on monetary policy or currency issuance 1077 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,440 Speaker 15: or foreign reserves, or stimulating the economy in any other way, 1078 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,360 Speaker 15: it has a knock on impact on every other economy 1079 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,840 Speaker 15: in the world. And that is just because most most 1080 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,799 Speaker 15: countries do a lot of business with the US, either 1081 00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:16,839 Speaker 15: directly or indirectly, and then unfortunately or not unfortunately. I'm 1082 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,960 Speaker 15: not sure what the answer is yet. The US dollar 1083 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:25,080 Speaker 15: is the world's currency reserve, and the fed's decision can 1084 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 15: have an impact on the value of the US dollar 1085 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,480 Speaker 15: and therefore almost every asset in the world. 1086 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,280 Speaker 2: Under I started by mentioning interest rates, and Chantell mentioned 1087 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,680 Speaker 2: all sorts of other things too. Am I oversimplifying it 1088 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 2: by just saying the FED is the big issue is 1089 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:42,279 Speaker 2: interest rate? 1090 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,359 Speaker 16: I think the interest rates are an essential part of 1091 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:52,799 Speaker 16: the equation. So there's often this concept investors call or 1092 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,680 Speaker 16: talk about risk free rate. What is the risk pre rate, 1093 00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:01,319 Speaker 16: which is effectively what the government borrows at. Now, if 1094 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,480 Speaker 16: you look at our government borrowing rates, so the interest 1095 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,560 Speaker 16: rate that the government pays on the borrowings that it 1096 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:13,160 Speaker 16: takes on, that is actually reference back to what the 1097 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,960 Speaker 16: US FED pays on its dates. So the worlds as 1098 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,200 Speaker 16: Chrantelle said, you know, the currency, the reserve currency of 1099 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 16: the world is a dollar. So the world's risk free 1100 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,680 Speaker 16: rate is the FED funds rate, effectively the starting point. 1101 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 16: So if you to get to what our government pays, 1102 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,480 Speaker 16: you kind of start with what they pay. Then you 1103 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,160 Speaker 16: add all sorts of premiums and inflation differentials and so 1104 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,400 Speaker 16: on to get to what investors would expect to pay 1105 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,480 Speaker 16: in terms of or rather what the government would expect 1106 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,000 Speaker 16: to pay on debt in South Africa, so you can 1107 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:52,040 Speaker 16: see how fundamentally the impact or the fundamental nature of 1108 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,120 Speaker 16: how it's so influenced, it's just so inter oven and 1109 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 16: everything that you see then from a South African perspective, 1110 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,560 Speaker 16: and I guess other governments and reserve banks across the world. 1111 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,920 Speaker 2: Chantelle, the reserve bank governor is not listening when I 1112 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 2: put this to you. But it can sometimes seem as 1113 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 2: if we follow the FED, that the reserve bank follows 1114 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,360 Speaker 2: the FED, is that what happens or is there something 1115 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,280 Speaker 2: else at play? 1116 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,960 Speaker 15: So I think you firstly look internally. You see what 1117 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,320 Speaker 15: your inflation dynamics look like. You see how your consumer 1118 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,960 Speaker 15: is experiencing current interest rates. 1119 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:30,760 Speaker 17: You look at stuff like growth. 1120 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 15: For the South African Reserve Bank, we have an inflation target. 1121 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 15: That's the mandate of the reserve Bank to maintain that 1122 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:44,480 Speaker 15: inflation target and indirectly ensure exchange rates stability as much 1123 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:49,520 Speaker 15: as they can. But to a certain extent, you also 1124 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,800 Speaker 15: have to look at the FED because it's very important 1125 00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,720 Speaker 15: to maintain So for us to maintain rand stability and 1126 00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,200 Speaker 15: price stability, we must look at what. 1127 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:00,160 Speaker 17: The FED is doing. 1128 00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,680 Speaker 15: If the FED is, for example, not cutting interest rates, 1129 00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,640 Speaker 15: but we are cutting interest rate rates, there's a fair 1130 00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,560 Speaker 15: chance that the rand will weaken against the US dollar 1131 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 15: and most other major currencies as well, and that can 1132 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,960 Speaker 15: have an impact on our inflation rate. And what is 1133 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,959 Speaker 15: the mandate of our reserve bank. It is to keep 1134 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,600 Speaker 15: inflation in check. So if we're going to have if 1135 00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,520 Speaker 15: we're going to cut when they're not going to cut, 1136 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,640 Speaker 15: and it's going to cause the Rand to weaken, and 1137 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:31,800 Speaker 15: that's going to cause inflation. 1138 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,280 Speaker 17: It's going to be an issue for us. 1139 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,000 Speaker 2: So we can't still really afford a big differential between 1140 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,600 Speaker 2: now interestrate and they're interestrat If we're moving in different directions, 1141 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 2: there'll be consequences to that. 1142 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:47,880 Speaker 6: Some tell. 1143 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:54,440 Speaker 15: Oh, yes, absolutely, sorry, now absolutely, there will be consequences, 1144 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,000 Speaker 15: So you will. Then you could experience a situation where 1145 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:03,040 Speaker 15: inflation's fin and the Reserve Bank has to renege on 1146 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,600 Speaker 15: its cut and actually then high rates again in order 1147 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,919 Speaker 15: to keep inflation in check and the Rand in check. 1148 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,480 Speaker 15: So it's good to have cognizance of what that bank 1149 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,240 Speaker 15: is doing. It won't always be a one for one. 1150 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,560 Speaker 15: What I find with the South African Reserve Bank in 1151 01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,560 Speaker 15: particular is that we tend to take away and see approach, 1152 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,200 Speaker 15: so we don't move one for one with the FED, 1153 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:31,200 Speaker 15: but generally, over time it moves together in some form 1154 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:31,720 Speaker 15: or another. 1155 01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,880 Speaker 2: Asanda, sorry I interrupted you, No, no, I was going 1156 01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:36,760 Speaker 2: to just add quickly. 1157 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,960 Speaker 16: I think there's also this idea of a carry trade, 1158 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 16: which is to Chantelle's point. You know, if the feed 1159 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,560 Speaker 16: for instance, isn't cutting and recut so investors all of 1160 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,280 Speaker 16: a sudden say, well, relative to yesterday, I can now 1161 01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,440 Speaker 16: get a better interest rate in terms of the differential 1162 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:57,200 Speaker 16: between our interest rate and the US. So money then 1163 01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,560 Speaker 16: flows back to the US, which is why Chantello is 1164 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,000 Speaker 16: referencing the weakness of the rand as a consequence. So 1165 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,919 Speaker 16: from an investment perspective, that's also I guess something to 1166 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 16: think about in terms of what or maybe from a 1167 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,520 Speaker 16: rand perspective and therefore inflation, what the reserve bank here 1168 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,200 Speaker 16: would think about relatives to what's happening with the Fed. 1169 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,080 Speaker 2: Okay, I think I'm with you, Sunder what happens? So, 1170 01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,960 Speaker 2: so if the if the US Federal Reserve cut rates 1171 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,840 Speaker 2: cuts rates tonight, what happens on the JC tomorrow? Which 1172 01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,640 Speaker 2: is really a way of asking which shares are affected 1173 01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,720 Speaker 2: by that? Is it financial shares? Is it gold hairs? 1174 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:33,360 Speaker 2: Who gets affected? And why? 1175 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,800 Speaker 16: I'd say if I knew that answered definitively, I probably 1176 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,760 Speaker 16: wouldn't be sitting out to be honest with you. But 1177 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,120 Speaker 16: let's let's try to answer it. I think generally, so 1178 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:50,160 Speaker 16: cut in interest rates would would would be signaling easing conditions. 1179 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:55,120 Speaker 16: So we're not as concerned about inflation conditions that are 1180 01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:01,480 Speaker 16: more more yeah as it. So in that environment, you know, 1181 01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:06,880 Speaker 16: the equity market is positively impacted because again investors are 1182 01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 16: getting less money in terms of the interest that they 1183 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,240 Speaker 16: get from holding let's say money in the bank balance 1184 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:12,480 Speaker 16: so on. 1185 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:14,080 Speaker 2: So it's stimulative. 1186 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:19,440 Speaker 16: But also more technically, when you value a particular company 1187 01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,360 Speaker 16: an asset, you say it to yourself, Look, I'm likely 1188 01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:26,520 Speaker 16: to get these types of returns or dividends into the future, 1189 01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,600 Speaker 16: but in order to get the value of that asset 1190 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:31,840 Speaker 16: into today's terms, I have to discount. I have to 1191 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,240 Speaker 16: use an interest rate to discount those future cash flosts 1192 01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,880 Speaker 16: to today. The lower the interest rate, the higher that 1193 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,240 Speaker 16: value because you are now discounting using a smaller lower 1194 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 16: interest rate. So that then stimulates or gives I guess, 1195 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,560 Speaker 16: to some degree increases the value of assets. You could 1196 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:55,080 Speaker 16: even say the way people look at let's say investment opportunities, 1197 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,200 Speaker 16: so they'll say, well, relative to putting money in the 1198 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,000 Speaker 16: bank account, I can actually, well, I'm get less interest here, 1199 01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,439 Speaker 16: but all of a sudden, maybe there's more money that's 1200 01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:08,840 Speaker 16: likely to start focusing on new projects because there's there's 1201 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,080 Speaker 16: more opportunity because I think, you know, there's there's more 1202 01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,480 Speaker 16: stimulus coming through, so I think generally speaking, it's supportive. 1203 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,720 Speaker 16: I'm loath to say witches, I must say, I don't 1204 01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:21,720 Speaker 16: want to put myself in trouble. 1205 01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,080 Speaker 2: There no sure, I mean to tell, how would you 1206 01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:28,360 Speaker 2: answer that question? I mean, does does the sort of 1207 01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,200 Speaker 2: if the US Federal Reserve decisions that it makes, how 1208 01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:35,320 Speaker 2: does that influence investment markets generally including the JS. 1209 01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,880 Speaker 15: So, because everything's so connected to that benchmark interest rate 1210 01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,920 Speaker 15: or that range that the FED provides. As I said already, 1211 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,920 Speaker 15: it really impacts the way that we value companies, and 1212 01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,880 Speaker 15: generally those valuations then pick up. But it can also 1213 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,520 Speaker 15: have kind of other knock on impacts as well. 1214 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,080 Speaker 17: So if you think about the FED. 1215 01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:02,840 Speaker 15: Cutting rates, usually that means a weaker US dollar relative 1216 01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:07,160 Speaker 15: to let's say, in this example, the rand, and that 1217 01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,720 Speaker 15: can have a positive impact on importers. For example, suddenly 1218 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,880 Speaker 15: it is a little bit less expensive to import something 1219 01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,400 Speaker 15: that they go on to sell in a South African store. 1220 01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,520 Speaker 15: A weaker dollar also means higher commodity prices, so that 1221 01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:26,280 Speaker 15: could be positive for exporters that the mining exporters or 1222 01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 15: mineral exporters in particular, it's very difficult to say exactly 1223 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,480 Speaker 15: which shares will benefit the most from it, but generally 1224 01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,560 Speaker 15: would see a broad based improvement in the fair value 1225 01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,160 Speaker 15: of assets globally because of the importance of the FED 1226 01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,880 Speaker 15: as that kind of starting point for almost every rate 1227 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:47,360 Speaker 15: in the world. 1228 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,320 Speaker 2: What happens if interest rates if interest rates in the 1229 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,880 Speaker 2: US become more difficult to predict. So, Sanda, we know 1230 01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:01,760 Speaker 2: that Jerome Power doesn't like That's why he's the governor 1231 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:03,520 Speaker 2: of the US Federal Reserve. You know, they said, Jack 1232 01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,760 Speaker 2: arkoh'm she'll get on quite well. We know that the 1233 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,560 Speaker 2: people around Trump and Trump himself want slower interest rates, 1234 01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,200 Speaker 2: and we know that from what he said, you know 1235 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,440 Speaker 2: you must cut interest rates now. So now interest rates 1236 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,640 Speaker 2: are in a position where if I'm a straight economist 1237 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,439 Speaker 2: and I really know my stuff, I mean, obviously I don't, 1238 01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,320 Speaker 2: which is why I'm here, But if I did, I 1239 01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,720 Speaker 2: would be able to use that economics knowledge to predict 1240 01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,480 Speaker 2: what the interests, what the reserve, what the Federal Reserve. 1241 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:27,720 Speaker 6: Was going to do. 1242 01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,440 Speaker 2: Now I have to factor politics into it, which is 1243 01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,760 Speaker 2: much harder so for markets, for people like you making 1244 01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,040 Speaker 2: decisions based on what you think interest rates are going 1245 01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,200 Speaker 2: to do. It's a much harder thing to predict. And 1246 01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:39,040 Speaker 2: what does that mean? 1247 01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:44,960 Speaker 16: Yeah, uh, spot on causes havoc and mayhem. So as 1248 01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,560 Speaker 16: you say, you know, without in the absence of the uncertain, 1249 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,800 Speaker 16: the unknown and unpredictable, you can sort of look at 1250 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,840 Speaker 16: the data and you know, there's always these phrases data 1251 01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,960 Speaker 16: driven decisions that the Fair talks about. I think it's 1252 01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,160 Speaker 16: start to talk to your question starts to talk to 1253 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:04,200 Speaker 16: also the element of the independence of the Reserve Bank 1254 01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,439 Speaker 16: and Federal Reserve and central banks generally, and why that's 1255 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:08,160 Speaker 16: quite important. 1256 01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,040 Speaker 2: I think what you wouldn't want. 1257 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,920 Speaker 16: In a in economy or country is where for political 1258 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,800 Speaker 16: reasons there's particular pressure to go or influence or move 1259 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,840 Speaker 16: interest rates one way or the other against what is 1260 01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,760 Speaker 16: economically sound and what would be in the best interests 1261 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,560 Speaker 16: of the country relative to the mandate of the central bank. 1262 01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:32,160 Speaker 16: So if it's prices, stability, inflation, jobs, growth, even in 1263 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,000 Speaker 16: the South African context, you would want the Reserve Bank 1264 01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,160 Speaker 16: to act according to that mandate and not in line 1265 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,640 Speaker 16: with or being influenced in any other way. So it's 1266 01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,400 Speaker 16: it's a really tricky thing when when when other factors 1267 01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,360 Speaker 16: do get introduced, because it does remove that element of 1268 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,920 Speaker 16: one being able to sort of look at the data 1269 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,560 Speaker 16: and as you say, it predicts kind of where things 1270 01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,600 Speaker 16: and interest rates are likely to go in the decisions 1271 01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:55,840 Speaker 16: that the FED is going to take. 1272 01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:58,680 Speaker 2: Chantell. I mean, there was a time in South Africa 1273 01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,720 Speaker 2: not that long ago, when the central Bank wasn't the 1274 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,640 Speaker 2: Reserve Bank was not independent. It is independent. It has 1275 01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,680 Speaker 2: operational independence now and that makes a big difference. But 1276 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,439 Speaker 2: in the US, and I didn't actually know this history 1277 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,480 Speaker 2: until quite recently, but in the nineteen seventies I understand 1278 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,920 Speaker 2: then President Richard Nixon put intense public pressure on the 1279 01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,480 Speaker 2: governor of the US Federal Reserve to basically not hike 1280 01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,480 Speaker 2: interest rates when they actually did need to hike them. 1281 01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,600 Speaker 2: We wanted to keep the economy going. There's a bit 1282 01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,960 Speaker 2: of what you would call a sugar high, and from 1283 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,479 Speaker 2: what I can work out, it took maybe ten years 1284 01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:34,320 Speaker 2: before they were able to get that under control. It 1285 01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,280 Speaker 2: took quite a long time to get interest rates, interest 1286 01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,480 Speaker 2: rates expectations. I knew that phrase was coming and everything 1287 01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,120 Speaker 2: and inflation under control. So I mean, this is quite 1288 01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:46,400 Speaker 2: risky then to mess with this. 1289 01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,800 Speaker 15: It is absolutely and central banks make mistakes, but the 1290 01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:56,160 Speaker 15: mistakes can have very serious consequences. You can get in 1291 01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,120 Speaker 15: a situation where you get runaway inflation, as was the 1292 01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,880 Speaker 15: case in the nineteen seventies in the US, and then 1293 01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,600 Speaker 15: it is very, very difficult to bring things back under control. 1294 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,280 Speaker 15: So it is absolutely vital that there really shouldn't be 1295 01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,120 Speaker 15: any interference. 1296 01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,800 Speaker 17: With that mandate. That mandate is core and it should 1297 01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,280 Speaker 17: be followed to the letter. And I think that. 1298 01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,800 Speaker 15: That is an extremely good case study of why it 1299 01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,639 Speaker 15: is so important for a central bank to maintain its 1300 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,800 Speaker 15: independence and to have that mandate be extremely clear and 1301 01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:35,240 Speaker 15: sacrifanct you cannot start, you cannot move away from it. 1302 01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:37,560 Speaker 17: And I think we've seen massive. 1303 01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,800 Speaker 15: Market volatility around that FED independence question. 1304 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,040 Speaker 17: Already. 1305 01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:46,800 Speaker 15: Financial markets are reacting to the possibility that they will 1306 01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,000 Speaker 15: be forced into doing something that they probably shouldn't be doing. 1307 01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,960 Speaker 15: The FED has very specific they've got a dual mandate. 1308 01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,639 Speaker 15: In South Africa, we've got the single mandate being inflation. 1309 01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:57,679 Speaker 2: There. 1310 01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,400 Speaker 15: You need to keep inflation under control and you need 1311 01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:05,879 Speaker 15: to ensure full employment. The US jobs market has weakened slightly, 1312 01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:10,680 Speaker 15: but it's still around about that full employment level. The 1313 01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,960 Speaker 15: inflation rate is meant to be around about two percent. 1314 01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,559 Speaker 15: It is still a way away from there. And if 1315 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,120 Speaker 15: you look at inflation expectations in the US right now, 1316 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,479 Speaker 15: you would be quite you would be freaked out because 1317 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,400 Speaker 15: it still isn't coming back to that two percent level. 1318 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,080 Speaker 17: And in that environment, there's so much pressure on them 1319 01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,800 Speaker 17: to cut interest rates. I think that that could have 1320 01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:33,000 Speaker 17: a really. 1321 01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,720 Speaker 15: Notable impact on those inflation expectations. 1322 01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,120 Speaker 17: And make it even harder down the line. 1323 01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,439 Speaker 2: So under then, say, for example, the worst case scenario 1324 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,880 Speaker 2: from this point of view, happens the Trump administration basically 1325 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,280 Speaker 2: was pressure on the FED. They can appoint a new 1326 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,719 Speaker 2: chair soon, and they're kept interest rates when they shouldn't. 1327 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,080 Speaker 2: Inflation in the States gets out of hand? What does 1328 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:55,800 Speaker 2: that mean for US? 1329 01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,920 Speaker 16: So I think it puts a lot of pressure, and 1330 01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,160 Speaker 16: I suppose a lot of uncertainty in terms of what 1331 01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,320 Speaker 16: and how the markets react to what our central bank 1332 01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,040 Speaker 16: is likely to do. But actually more generally financial markets 1333 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:16,120 Speaker 16: and the reaction, I think there's probably a lot of 1334 01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:20,160 Speaker 16: thinking and debating around how far we deviate from I 1335 01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,000 Speaker 16: suppose what the FED is doing at that point. As 1336 01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,760 Speaker 16: the SAB I think our own fundamentals do definitely play 1337 01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:29,479 Speaker 16: a role as far as what the SAB does and 1338 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 16: its mandate. But of course, you know, stability of the 1339 01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,240 Speaker 16: rand is something that they think about because of its 1340 01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,560 Speaker 16: potential influence on inflation, which is the key mandate that 1341 01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,960 Speaker 16: they have. I think you probably find that there's a 1342 01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,160 Speaker 16: fair amount of volatility in the market, people trying to, 1343 01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,800 Speaker 16: you know, kind of sort of grapple for new pieces 1344 01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,960 Speaker 16: of information determining what the direction looks like. I could 1345 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,160 Speaker 16: see things like, you know, the rest of the safe 1346 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,960 Speaker 16: haven assets like gold coming into play. 1347 01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,120 Speaker 2: I mean, we were had four. 1348 01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,760 Speaker 16: Thousand and two hundred, now people are talking about five 1349 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,080 Speaker 16: and seven thousand, you know, because of this uncertainty. So 1350 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:08,680 Speaker 16: I think adding that ingredient to this already very tumultuous 1351 01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,920 Speaker 16: pot in terms of financial markets would in my mind, 1352 01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:17,799 Speaker 16: just sort of heighten risk or heighten uncertainty in that environment. 1353 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,840 Speaker 16: I think you find that there's a lot of volatility people. 1354 01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,200 Speaker 16: I always like to think of it like I always say, 1355 01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,759 Speaker 16: you know, people wake up and they hear that somebody 1356 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:26,960 Speaker 16: is selling. Then they say, well, if he's selling, that 1357 01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,479 Speaker 16: I should be selling. Then at some point midday on 1358 01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,720 Speaker 16: the same day they say, well that guy stops selling. Well, 1359 01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,400 Speaker 16: actually maybe we should be buying. But that's because nobody's 1360 01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:38,400 Speaker 16: actually using fundamental, like hardcore data to say this is 1361 01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:39,880 Speaker 16: what we should be doing or not, and so that 1362 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,400 Speaker 16: uncertainty really just breeds that volatility. 1363 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,599 Speaker 2: We're talking about the role of the US Federal Reserve 1364 01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,240 Speaker 2: on Investment School tonight. It's a not Check His chief 1365 01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,200 Speaker 2: investment officer at Masiaset Management and Tell Marketers of Equity 1366 01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,080 Speaker 2: Research at F and B Wealth and Investment. Seven minutes date. 1367 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,439 Speaker 12: The Money Show stevel Protest is brought to you by 1368 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,679 Speaker 12: Abscess the ib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets 1369 01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:06,040 Speaker 12: across Africa. Download the ABSO Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty 1370 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:06,719 Speaker 12: twenty five. 1371 01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,840 Speaker 2: The Money Show Investment School just four minutes to go. 1372 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,320 Speaker 2: Four minutes to eight o'clock is under Notche, chief investment 1373 01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,360 Speaker 2: officer at Massi Asset Management, Chintel Marx, head of Equity 1374 01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:19,640 Speaker 2: Research a different be Wealth and Investments. We're discussing the 1375 01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,519 Speaker 2: role of the US Federal Reserve on your assets, Chantell. 1376 01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,280 Speaker 2: We are seeing a situation where there's a lot of 1377 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,320 Speaker 2: talk about d dollarising, just not using the dollar quite 1378 01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,760 Speaker 2: as much. You started by pointing out it was the 1379 01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:36,240 Speaker 2: reserve currency, and that's why it's so important if that happens, 1380 01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,800 Speaker 2: if we rely less on the dollar, I mean, it's 1381 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:40,600 Speaker 2: not going away, but if we rely less on it, 1382 01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:42,639 Speaker 2: does that produce the influence of the FED? 1383 01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,400 Speaker 15: Yes, I do think technically it would reduce the influence 1384 01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:48,960 Speaker 15: of the FED. 1385 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:50,719 Speaker 17: But you need to then. 1386 01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:54,840 Speaker 15: Consider what is your new reference currency, because then you 1387 01:12:55,000 --> 01:13:01,800 Speaker 15: will become dependent on whatever whatever central back authority overseas 1388 01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,880 Speaker 15: that specific currency, and that's the monetary policy and that 1389 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:10,080 Speaker 15: specific region. So let's say, for example, we are moving 1390 01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:14,720 Speaker 15: towards the Chinese. You are now you are dependent on 1391 01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,880 Speaker 15: the People's Bank of China. That is also not an 1392 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:22,200 Speaker 15: independent institution, it is a body of the state. So 1393 01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:26,920 Speaker 15: it's a difficult one. It will just become another central 1394 01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:28,760 Speaker 15: bank that we need to reference. 1395 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,680 Speaker 2: And Sunday, isn't that now just adding to the complexity 1396 01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:34,920 Speaker 2: because in the past, okay, say ten years ago, the 1397 01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 2: US FED the dollar, these things we can understand. We 1398 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,519 Speaker 2: know what sort of China is, we know it's growing. 1399 01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,360 Speaker 2: But if we understand the US FED and it's transparent, 1400 01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,120 Speaker 2: then fine, Now you have to take into account so 1401 01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:47,120 Speaker 2: many other actors. 1402 01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:52,080 Speaker 16: Absolutely, and I mean the detollarization sort of theme also 1403 01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,479 Speaker 16: talks to this central bank buying of gold, which is 1404 01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,600 Speaker 16: also what's influenced where the goal price has gone on 1405 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:03,960 Speaker 16: one of the actors. Anyway, I think this really talks 1406 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:09,280 Speaker 16: to this whole the connection between economics, politics, finance, because 1407 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,439 Speaker 16: this there's sort of this shift in power, if you will, 1408 01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:14,479 Speaker 16: from from the west to the east, the sort of 1409 01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:18,720 Speaker 16: malta multi sort of polar polar type environment, and and 1410 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,880 Speaker 16: sort of world order that we're going into, which actually, 1411 01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,840 Speaker 16: as you say, means that it's not as easy as saying, 1412 01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,240 Speaker 16: well here's my reference point, and and and sort of 1413 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:30,400 Speaker 16: I understand it. What's actually happening now is there's these 1414 01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,720 Speaker 16: groups that are forming. You know, we've got breaks. I 1415 01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,600 Speaker 16: suppose that be part of there's guys, the stuff that 1416 01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,680 Speaker 16: the guys are doing in Southeast Asia. You know, there's 1417 01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,080 Speaker 16: all sorts of things, I mean in the continent ourselves, 1418 01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:45,000 Speaker 16: you know, the Africa Free Trade consideration, so all these 1419 01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,640 Speaker 16: things are I think it's a it's an evolution of 1420 01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,639 Speaker 16: where the world is, how the world is developing. 1421 01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:54,840 Speaker 2: It's fascinating. Could go on forever Sunday Sunday notche Chief 1422 01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,000 Speaker 2: Investment opts at Masiaset Management and Chantal Marks, head of 1423 01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,080 Speaker 2: Equity researching different be Wealth and Investments. Really appreciate the time. 1424 01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,920 Speaker 2: Thank you fascinating. Once you start talking about the end 1425 01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:07,240 Speaker 2: of independence of reserve banks, you will kind of wonder 1426 01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,479 Speaker 2: where that story ends. I'll give you my view nowhere Good. 1427 01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,840 Speaker 12: The Money Show a steeple crotest is brought to you 1428 01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:19,000 Speaker 12: by Abscess the IV Discover the latest trends shaping digital 1429 01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:23,400 Speaker 12: assets across Africa. Download the ABSUTH Africa Digital Assets Insights 1430 01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,479 Speaker 12: twenty twenty five. 1431 01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:28,240 Speaker 2: Well, talking about the US, talking about the impact on 1432 01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,360 Speaker 2: US a mixed picture in the United States tonight that 1433 01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,760 Speaker 2: our Jones down point zero five, the nastacap point one five, 1434 01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,280 Speaker 2: the S and P five hundred up point zero nine, 1435 01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:40,320 Speaker 2: the new jobs report out but seems to send a 1436 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,320 Speaker 2: slightly conflicting messages. And I think that's a big part 1437 01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,639 Speaker 2: of what's happening. I hope you're inspired by our conversation 1438 01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:49,960 Speaker 2: about holidays and small towns in the plotland. Maybe look elsewhere, 1439 01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,360 Speaker 2: maybe not for Christmas, but for another part of next year. 1440 01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,720 Speaker 2: Might just be worth looking for some hidden gems let 1441 01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,640 Speaker 2: me rephrase, some very cheap hidden gems to go on 1442 01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,320 Speaker 2: holiday day in South Africa. We're back tomorrow. Good evening, 1443 01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:02,920 Speaker 2: it's eight o'clock