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Speaker 1: Lunch with Pippa Hudson and now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nola. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the big news is that Wendy Nola is back in

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Speaker 1: studio with us, and you've been sorely missed, Wendy, be

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Speaker 1: very glad that you made it back in one piece back.

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Speaker 1: So Wendy's travels are giving us some talking points as

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Speaker 1: a starter for the show today. Then we'll get to

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Speaker 1: the main course, which is talking about you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: nominally it's the return of deposits on reusable bottles, but really,

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Speaker 1: at its core, this is another packaging recycling issue. It's

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Speaker 1: part of a much bigger picture than just a couple

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Speaker 1: of cents per bottle. So that's going to be our

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Speaker 1: main focus. And then we will try and answer a

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Speaker 1: listener's question about how the deposit process is meant to

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Speaker 1: work in terms of what the law says versus what

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Speaker 1: is actually happening in practice, much of which, for the record,

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Speaker 1: is not compliant with the Consumer Protection Act. So that's

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Speaker 1: the main course. We might have spaced for dessert in

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Speaker 1: the form of a few open line calls at the

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Speaker 1: end if you do want to join the conversation or

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Speaker 1: ask a question. Remember you can dial us on two

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Speaker 1: one four four six five six seven or send a

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Speaker 1: what's up to seven to five six seven one five

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Speaker 1: six seven Wendy. At one point we weren't sure you

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Speaker 1: were going to make it back in time for today's show,

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Speaker 1: because like so many other recent passengers, you have experienced

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Speaker 1: a degree of turbulence. Only this time it wasn't anything

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Speaker 1: to do with the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: No, it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't to do with war or disease pandemics. It

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Speaker 3: was good old fog which wrecked my return. Fog at

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Speaker 3: Auckland Airport. So I got back from my New Zealand

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Speaker 3: visit of two weeks late on Monday night, which was

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Speaker 3: eighteen hours later than scheduled, And there was one point

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Speaker 3: that I didn't think I would get back in time.

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Speaker 3: My sister was in the same jam on different flights

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Speaker 3: but also fog and Auckland, and she's only we arrived

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Speaker 3: on Sunday. She's only flying to Perth today. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: they're eleven hours ahead, so she's already there. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: they had three nights at the hotel. I only had one.

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Speaker 3: But what happened was I booked my flights last July

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Speaker 3: at this big family event in New Zealand and South Island,

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Speaker 3: christ Church and I chose Singapore Airlines, even though their

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Speaker 3: quote was more expensive than Qatar, the other option, because

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Speaker 3: the timing of the flights and coordination with other family

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Speaker 3: members were the best. And I was very pleased for

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Speaker 3: that decision when the war broke out, because we all

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Speaker 3: know what happened there with flight disruption, and I left

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Speaker 3: on the sixteenth, so it was.

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Speaker 1: You know, quite in the middle of all of us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the flight there went off without a hitch,

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Speaker 3: and but not so much on the way back. So

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Speaker 3: christ Church Auckland flight first leg disrupted, delayed, delayed, delayed

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Speaker 3: because of fog at Auckland, and apparently their lights on

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Speaker 3: the runway were problematic as well. So by the time

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Speaker 3: I got there, there was we touched down, there was

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Speaker 3: still some chance that I would get my connection to Singapore.

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Speaker 3: My routing was Auckland Singapore Cape down, but we sat

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Speaker 3: on the runway for an hour and a half because

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Speaker 3: of congestion, all the flights being delayed and cut and

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Speaker 3: two close together, the airport couldn't cope and so by

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Speaker 3: the time I raced to the International departures at Auckland.

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Speaker 3: My flight had left and many other people were in

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Speaker 3: my same situation.

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Speaker 1: So what do you do.

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Speaker 3: Well, then you go and find a Singapore Air desk.

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Speaker 3: Can you take it from there? Except there was no

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Speaker 3: one manning any single Singapore Air desk, and so I

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Speaker 3: had to join this.

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Speaker 2: Long at Air New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: That leg had been Air New Zealand, but it was

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Speaker 3: booked via code share by Air Singapore. Was an Air

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Speaker 3: Singapore ticket. So got to the front of that long

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Speaker 3: queue and sorry, they couldn't do anything the hotel. They

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Speaker 3: didn't have any more hotel rooms and you know, you're

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Speaker 3: on your own pretty much. They did take my details

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Speaker 3: and say that they would contact me. I said, please email,

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Speaker 3: not conto phones with a replacement flight, and that never happened.

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Speaker 3: So waited three hours for the luggage. That was another

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Speaker 3: story three hours and so that offloaded our luggage. Obviously

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Speaker 3: he couldn't and that's all they'd done. Like I had.

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Speaker 2: I was on their app.

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Speaker 3: There were notifications boarding, but then just ended nothing else.

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Speaker 3: No contact via email or the app saying sorry, this

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Speaker 3: is what we did. Wasn't their fault either, but you

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Speaker 3: know they had to have known that silk had caused

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Speaker 3: the problem, not me being stuck in traffic or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And anyway, so I had to book an a hotel

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Speaker 3: room and eleven hours ahead, so that.

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Speaker 1: Was time difference to your agents in South Africa.

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Speaker 3: But she was fast asleep, and I tried to do

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Speaker 3: a live chat with some more Singapore airlines and it

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Speaker 3: was misunderstanding what I was saying. And at one point

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Speaker 3: my agent, do I have to give a big shout

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Speaker 3: out to She's based in some set wres she's making

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Speaker 3: oppermann and she's part of flight Center's en voyage team,

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Speaker 3: so they private operators but fall under the banner so

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Speaker 3: they get access to all the global systems, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: So so she was so fast asleep when I sent

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Speaker 3: to my sos, and so that's why I started the

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Speaker 3: live chat. But she came she answered me while I

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Speaker 3: was still doing my live chat, at which point the

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Speaker 3: the live chat person said, have you contacted your agents

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Speaker 3: because they've deleted your flights, which actually wasn't the case.

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Speaker 3: But that live agent then bowed out and even me

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Speaker 3: in Meghan's hands, and she spent the best part of

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Speaker 3: her Sunday morning getting people longer trying to find me alternative,

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Speaker 3: which she eventually did, and I had to have three

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Speaker 3: hour sleep work up, caught it to four and get

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Speaker 3: a flight on another airline, Quantus to Sydney and then

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Speaker 3: to joe Berg. You almost had to overnight, managed to

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Speaker 3: get the last flight to Cape Town and got into

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Speaker 3: my own bed at midnight on Monday night. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what would have happened if it wasn't

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Speaker 3: for Megan, because, as I say, my sister and their

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Speaker 3: partner took them three.

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Speaker 1: Days to move on. I mean, and this is the

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Speaker 1: reason why we're talking about it today. It's not just

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Speaker 1: a long, sad story, it's just travel. It's to say,

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Speaker 1: sometimes there is a big benefit in having a travel.

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Speaker 3: Agency, especially if you've got multiple legs. So now and

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Speaker 3: if you're flying sort of Cape to on London whatever,

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Speaker 3: I would say, you know, it's pretty good. But in

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Speaker 3: a case like this, it is just life saving to

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Speaker 3: have an agent go to bat for you, and you

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Speaker 3: know they've got the contacts, they've got the systems, they

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Speaker 3: can make it happen. And yeah, as I say, I

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Speaker 3: don't know that. My concern was I felt abandoned at

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Speaker 3: the airport and then no one contacted me proactively to

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Speaker 3: say you've missed their booking, You've missed this is what

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Speaker 3: we've arranged for you. It was left to me to

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Speaker 3: make everything happen. The hotel, the live chat. At least

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Speaker 3: there was an agent to talk to, I must admit,

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Speaker 3: but I've sent them a media crew, but it bounced

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Speaker 3: back from the address that I had sourced, So I

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Speaker 3: don't know what's happening there that I'd love to have

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Speaker 3: had their comments. But I'm definitely pursuing it because you

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Speaker 3: know it's they win awards there, they were highly rated

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Speaker 3: as an airline. But the thing is, what systems do

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Speaker 3: you have? What are your protocols for when something like

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Speaker 3: this happens. Is it okay to just leave your passengers

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Speaker 3: to vend for themselves. Yeah, it's just something that I created,

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Speaker 3: not something that they created, but they're obliged to facilitate.

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Speaker 1: In the end.

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Speaker 2: They did it through my agent.

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Speaker 3: But what if I hadn't had an agent. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: So really, just get yourself an agent if you're with

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Speaker 3: so many things that can cause disruption with international travel

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Speaker 3: these days. My message earlier is and we had agents online,

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Speaker 3: what about three four weeks ago, that wonderful show you

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Speaker 3: did yes about the current entanglements and that least exactly,

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Speaker 3: and you had an agent to come on and say

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Speaker 3: this is this is when you need us exactly, and

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Speaker 3: so I really really support that and it really did

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Speaker 3: work for me.

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Speaker 1: I mean really point taken, Wendy. If it's a simple

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Speaker 1: flight from destination to destination, be on a direct flight

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Speaker 1: and you're flying alone, it's easy enough to do it

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Speaker 1: on your own. But if it's a complex trip with

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Speaker 1: multiple legs, with multiple people flying, with deadlines to be met,

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Speaker 1: that you've got to be back in time for an

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Speaker 1: important meeting, all that kind of thing, it really is

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Speaker 1: something to consider whether it is still worth indeed having

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Speaker 1: that feeback.

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Speaker 3: That bargain basement fair at what cost? Though? If it

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Speaker 3: all goes well, brilliant. If it doesn't, then.

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Speaker 1: It ends up costing you a whole lot more. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: very very disruptive, will be glad, thank you. Let me

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Speaker 1: add my thanks to Meghan Opperman forgetting her back in

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Speaker 1: time for Wednesday show, because I think there would have

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Speaker 1: been a mutiny if you were gone for a third

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Speaker 1: week in a never happened now just before Wendy left

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Speaker 1: on her overseas trip. I received an email from our

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Speaker 1: listener David, who raised the issue of the deposit on

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Speaker 1: so called returnable bottles and how he said to me,

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Speaker 1: every second retailer he deals with seems to have their

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Speaker 1: own version of the rules around how they refund customers

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Speaker 1: who do bother to bring those bottles back. And Wendy

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Speaker 1: promised to do some research on this that we could

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Speaker 1: pick up on the story when she got back. And

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Speaker 1: as I said a few minutes ago, you know, this

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Speaker 1: might seem I'd face value to be equibble over a

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Speaker 1: very small amount of money, a couple of cents or

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Speaker 1: maybe rans per bottle. But of course the bigger picture

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Speaker 1: here is the reason the deposit system exists in the

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Speaker 1: first place, because if it works well, customers are encouraged

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Speaker 1: to make the effort to keep their bottles and to

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Speaker 1: bring them back to the store, and that allows them

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Speaker 1: to be put back into circulation and reused. That means

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Speaker 1: less new packaging being created and obviously an attendant smaller

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Speaker 1: environmental footprint. So it is actually a much bigger issue

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Speaker 1: than just a couple of rands. When you let's start

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Speaker 1: with what the law says the consumer Protection Act. What

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Speaker 1: does it say about bottle deposits?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so essentially, if a retailer sells a product with

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Speaker 3: a deposit, they are legally obligated to accept a return

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Speaker 3: and provide a refund when that item is brought back.

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Speaker 3: There's no terms and conditions here. They must give you

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Speaker 3: what you paid as a deposit back when you take

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Speaker 3: the bottle back, and it doesn't have to be the

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Speaker 3: store that you bought from. So if you're brought some

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Speaker 3: bottlestore A, you take it back to bottlestore B the

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Speaker 3: deposit section must be refunded to you because obviously, when

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Speaker 3: say breweries or whatever comes to collect the deposits, the

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Speaker 3: bottlestore is going to get there the bottles rather they

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Speaker 3: only get their money back.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there are some.

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Speaker 3: Practical ifs and butts, and that is all conditions rather

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Speaker 3: than that is obviously there mustn't be cement or chewing

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Speaker 3: gum or stuff wax people using the bottles, as you know,

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Speaker 3: that's going to mess with the washing and recycling. Not recycling,

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Speaker 3: but reuse of the bottles. And they mustn't be chipped

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Speaker 3: or cracked, because that's.

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Speaker 1: They can't be reused.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So but in practice, a lot of the retailers

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Speaker 3: are playing a bit fast and loose with that, introducing

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Speaker 3: their own conditions which not only don't comply with the CPA,

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Speaker 3: but they don't comply with South African Breweries advice and

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Speaker 3: conditions to the retailers on how they should be managing

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Speaker 3: the refunds of the deposits paid.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, as a matter of interest, where are those

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Speaker 1: deposits sitting when? Because I don't drink beer and I

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Speaker 1: don't drink physical drinks, so I've kind of completely not

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Speaker 1: touch with what the amounts are. How much are we

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Speaker 1: talking here?

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Speaker 3: We're talking about one rund fifty four glass up to

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Speaker 3: our case study, paid two rand for the seven to

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Speaker 3: fifty mils okay bottles, Yeah, and up to three rand

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Speaker 3: for certain plastic returnables. And that's under Coca Cola.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, sab on the beer, Coca Cola on the

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Speaker 1: on the cold bottles. The two big players here, okay so,

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Speaker 1: and we will hear some input from those players a

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Speaker 1: little bit later on. But when okay, so, that's what's

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Speaker 1: meant to happen in practice. You buy the bottle and

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Speaker 1: included in the price was the deposit element and when

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Speaker 1: you take the bottle back in reusable condition, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to get that money back. End of story. Obviously that's

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Speaker 1: not what is happening in practice.

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Speaker 3: No, So I did some research on this beyond what

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Speaker 3: our listener related to us. So in many cases they

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Speaker 3: will refuse to find deposits on In particular, this came

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Speaker 3: up South African Breweries court bottles. Unless the consumer is

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Speaker 3: buying replacements, it's not okay. Consumers on Facebook have reported

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Speaker 3: that some outlets avoid the legal requirement to refund deposits

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Speaker 3: by simply increasing the shelf price to include the bottles

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Speaker 3: value and then claiming no deposit was charged.

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Speaker 1: That's cheap A good sneak.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And then one that actually came up in

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Speaker 3: this as a reason from one of the retailers is

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Speaker 3: lack of space. Retailers claim that suppliers SB and Coca

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Speaker 3: Cola failed to collect empties regularly, leaving the store with

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Speaker 3: excess stock that cannot fload.

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Speaker 1: So they said, we can't take anymore because we've literally

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Speaker 1: got nowhere to put them. They're pretty much okay. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's if they can defend that and show us photographs

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Speaker 1: of their overflowing storm I can, I can, I can

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Speaker 1: at least accept as a practical consideration that that that

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Speaker 1: has some legs to it. But yeah, simply bumping up

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Speaker 1: the price of the bottle on the shelf and then

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Speaker 1: saying you weren't charged the deposit, no okay.

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Speaker 3: So also saying well, you've got to buy airtime from us,

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Speaker 3: or you've got to buy If you're bringing four bottles back,

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Speaker 3: six bottles back and you're only buying two, then we're

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Speaker 3: only going to refund you the deposit on two. That's

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Speaker 3: really not okay.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is what brings us to our listener, David,

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Speaker 1: who is on the line to tell us more a

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Speaker 1: little bit about his practical experience. And David, I want

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Speaker 1: to say thank you first for raising this issue and

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Speaker 1: giving us the opportunity to talk about it today, and

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Speaker 1: thanks for your patience and waiting for Wendy to get

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Speaker 1: back so that we could address it.

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Speaker 4: Good to have you with us today, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. Okay, So you worked to me to say your

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Speaker 1: experience trying to return seven hundred and fifty mil beer

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Speaker 1: bottles for which you should have been due a refund

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Speaker 1: of two round each and you weren't finding it working

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Speaker 1: that easily. Let's start with us watch bottle stores refused

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Speaker 1: to refund you in full for the return of those bottles.

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Speaker 4: Okay, there's basically well, basically what model stores that I've

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Speaker 4: been too, I want to refund you at all. So

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Speaker 4: the one that I deal with myles, the two which

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Speaker 4: these a Diamonds because which is sort of two minutes

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Speaker 4: die from me, and then the stops bottle stores as

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Speaker 4: well that I go to sometimes because obviously we can

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Speaker 4: do shopping at the spot. So those are the two

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Speaker 4: specific ones that I'd deal with, but I think to

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Speaker 4: other ones with other people as well.

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Speaker 1: Now and had the same issue now, David, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's not as blatant as saying we won't pay a deposit.

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Speaker 1: What what is the complication you've hit? So if you

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Speaker 1: take back, say six empties, you don't get six times,

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Speaker 1: well to run back, tell us what they said to you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, if I if I, if I have to

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Speaker 4: mention the one year bum me, the accel in of

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Speaker 4: the tops, the diamonds, the diamonds. Yeah, well, then basically

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Speaker 4: if you take any bottles back to them, they refuse

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Speaker 4: to give you your your deposit back at all. So

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Speaker 4: in other words, if you come there with ten bottles,

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Speaker 4: two bottles, one bottle, they don't give you the deposit

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Speaker 4: back at all. They basically say you have to buy

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Speaker 4: up all here with those bottles. And if you bring

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Speaker 4: take two bottles back, you can buy two bottles or

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Speaker 4: their two beers or their two bottles. But if you

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Speaker 4: bring take four back and only buying two beers, they

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Speaker 4: won't take that off and say, look, okay, you buying

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Speaker 4: two beers. Let's take the two ends off, but the

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Speaker 4: other two deposits we wanted back to you. So that's

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Speaker 4: how they work. So basically they're forcing you if you

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Speaker 4: bring two bottles, you can exchange it for two bottles.

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Speaker 4: They don't give any refund back at all if you

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Speaker 4: just bring the bottles and yeah, and the other thing

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Speaker 4: is the same thing. If you bring letter, say forty bottles,

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Speaker 4: which is eighty range worth, and you decide you're going

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Speaker 4: to buy say fifty range with the alcohol, they don't say, look,

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Speaker 4: let's give you other fifty range back. So it's basically

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Speaker 4: just a complete swap and that's all. They do nothing,

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Speaker 4: And I've raised it with them before, upside in the

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Speaker 4: Consumer Protection Act, which I downloaded and they basically just say, well,

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Speaker 4: that's how they operate pretaint clouds.

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Speaker 1: I want to say bravo for printing out a copy

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Speaker 1: of the CPA and taking it in with you. David.

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Speaker 1: That's brilliant. I which more consumers were that proactive, But

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Speaker 1: that's I mean, quite blatant that you showed them what

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Speaker 1: the law says and they basically told you we don't care,

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Speaker 1: don't we don't subscribe to that. I mean, Wendy, you

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Speaker 1: went down the rabbit hole and took this up with

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Speaker 1: the particular supplies that David's mentioned there, as well as

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Speaker 1: chatting to several others, and David, can you stay with

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Speaker 1: us and take a listen to what Wendy found out?

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Speaker 1: And I'm mindful of the time we will spill this

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Speaker 1: over after the two thirty New Years as well. Sorry

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Speaker 1: about that, but you went to say I.

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Speaker 3: Started with food Lovers, and the liquor general manager, Barrenstein,

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Speaker 3: gave me this response.

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Speaker 2: He said food lovers.

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Speaker 3: So they asked also for the context of Diamonds discount

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Speaker 3: liquor stores and food Lovers. He said, food Lovers owns

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Speaker 3: operates eighteen Diamonds discout liquor stores. In the western Cape

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Speaker 3: and twenty across the rest of South Africa, so quite dominant.

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Speaker 1: Here in the rest of Cape.

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Speaker 3: All our stores, he said, take return and refund deposits

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Speaker 3: on empty bottles as it is the bulk of their

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Speaker 3: sales breakdown, and I'm happy to supply proof of this.

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Speaker 2: He said.

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Speaker 3: It is certainly not our policy to make the refunding

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Speaker 3: of deposits for returned glass bottles dependent on further spend

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Speaker 3: by customers. The only time that stores will be hesitant

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Speaker 3: to take back excess empty bottles that's when a person

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Speaker 3: collects a big volume of empty bottles to return to

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Speaker 3: a store for cash, is when the store does not

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Speaker 3: have empty crates to saw the bottles, and as SAB

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Speaker 3: will only collect and refund if it is in crates

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Speaker 3: or if the stores backup storage is that capacity and

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Speaker 3: cannot cannot take, cannot store any further empty bottles until

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Speaker 3: SAB does a collection. I'm just going to pause there

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Speaker 3: n say. I did add that as an extra question

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Speaker 3: to s A B. Because I didn't have this information

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Speaker 3: when I sent my initial query, and I've just seen

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Speaker 3: the response and they don't address it.

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Speaker 1: So I will be following up on that.

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Speaker 3: To continue with food lovers Byron stains response. We have

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Speaker 3: received no customer complaint through our customer care channels relating

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Speaker 3: to stores refusing to refund deposits in relation to return

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Speaker 3: to glass bottles. We have though, engaged with the management

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Speaker 3: of our Summer Green store, the store that mister de

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Speaker 3: Vet David was referring to, and we have impressed upon

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Speaker 3: them the importance of adhering to our policy of accepting

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Speaker 3: returns and refunding deposits in the ordinary course.

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Speaker 1: So I'm interested, I mean, David, this is all played

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Speaker 1: out over the last of two weeks or so. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of interest, have you tried to return any

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Speaker 1: bottles in the last week orser, since when he started digging,

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Speaker 1: and if so, did you have any different kind of response?

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Speaker 4: No, I haven't taken anything back, likely because as I say,

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Speaker 4: it's users taking it back in as I say, I'm

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Speaker 4: not sure we spoke to But yeah, that make meta

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Speaker 4: IV is completely false. I cannot speak to to all

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Speaker 4: the other Diamonds athletes, but I can tell you straight

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Speaker 4: from this, and I ever think this was rain already.

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Speaker 4: I sentiment email in connection with this already and ictually

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Speaker 4: haven't received any any response.

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Speaker 1: When you said, you said, who did you send that

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Speaker 1: email to? David? Sorry, was it to diamonds or to

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Speaker 1: the holding company.

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Speaker 4: To the holding company everything in charge of the diamonds, liqua, athletes,

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Speaker 4: under food lovers or whatever, because that's because I agree

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Speaker 4: it was difficult to get hold of the thing under

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Speaker 4: diamonds and somebody, but because they belong to Love. But

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Speaker 4: you have to go to them. Man was a long

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Speaker 4: riga tell eventually I got all the summary. Wow, but

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Speaker 4: a change now if you got down to them now,

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Speaker 4: if I got you down to them now with five

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Speaker 4: bottles and I tay you look, I'm returning this year.

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Speaker 4: They refused, they will at tracking guarantee they will actually

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Speaker 4: I mean at the outcom put it on shore you

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Speaker 4: but it's absolutely faulting giving you.

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Speaker 3: David, okay, have that said, Please forward us the for

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Speaker 3: me the email that you sent to them to complain,

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Speaker 3: so I can say well this was made.

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Speaker 2: And also please trot along with your empties.

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Speaker 3: And now and whenever as soon as you can, and

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Speaker 3: let us know how what sort of response you get.

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Speaker 3: We'd be most interested to hear that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, David Devett, thank you so much and I'll

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Speaker 1: let you go there, David, are mindful of not keeping

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Speaker 1: you holding for too long, but thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for raising this issue, and Wendy. Several WhatsApps coming in

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Speaker 1: from listeners echoing David's experience, Marius saying what's been trotted

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Speaker 1: out by the liquor stores is nonsense. I have stopped

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Speaker 1: buying beer in recyclable bottle because of this, Wayne saying yes,

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Speaker 1: same applies to the five hundred mill glass coke bottle.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the shops won't accept the empty deposit

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Speaker 1: unless you take another one. We also heard from Jenny

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Speaker 1: saying Macro is another culprit. You only get money off

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Speaker 1: your next purchase, not a reimbursement. So if you're just

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Speaker 1: tuning in, the issue raised by our listener David is

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Speaker 1: that the system for paying customers the deposit that they

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Speaker 1: are due by law for returnable bottles is not working

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Speaker 1: in practice. Either they are being refused the deposit at all,

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Speaker 1: or it's being made a refund that's dependent on further

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Speaker 1: spend in the store and applicable numbers of spend. So

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Speaker 1: if you bring back four bottles, we'll only refund you

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Speaker 1: the deposit if you buy another four bottles for example.

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Speaker 1: That was some of the experience that David shared with us. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the food lovers response, you were talking to us

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Speaker 1: just before the news, Wendy, you had a very interesting

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Speaker 1: engagement with the SPA group who obviously owned the TOPS brand,

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Speaker 1: which was the other one David flagged as being problematic.

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Speaker 1: Tell us what they say.

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Speaker 3: SPA started off by saying that explaining their business model.

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Speaker 3: So they operate on a voluntary trading model and an

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Speaker 3: independent retail model. So all the branches are independently owned

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Speaker 3: and they fall under SPA TOPS, which means that the

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Speaker 3: local retailers individual owners of the TOP stores and this instance,

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Speaker 3: are responsible for day to day management of their stores,

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Speaker 3: including customer service, in store policies, and operational procedures. But

437
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 3: retailers operate within SPAS operational guidelines. Are now expected to

438
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 3: comply with consumer and trading regulations, right, that's the context

439
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 3: to this issue. Retailers refund returnable bottles based on valid

440
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 3: a valid purchase slip being presented confirming that a deposit

441
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: was paid on the original purchase. That's not a requirement in.

442
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: Law, okay.

443
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 3: And instances where additional empty bottles are returned without a

444
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 3: corresponding purchase. For example, where a customer returns six bottles

445
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 3: but only purchases too beverages, the excess bottles are typically

446
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 3: not refunded in cash. Instead, customers are offered the option

447
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 3: to redeem the value in store at their discretion. In

448
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 3: some cases, customers choose to use their value for items

449
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 3: such as airtime or other small purchases. Given the relatively

450
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 3: low value of bottle deposits. In certain circumstances, retailers may

451
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 3: require the value of reternal bottles to be redeemed in

452
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 3: store instead of issuing a cash refund, which is consistent

453
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 3: with standard retail practice. Retailers may also implement this approach

454
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 3: as part of their instore loss prevention and anti theft measures,

455
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 3: which is generally accepted as a common retail practice. The

456
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 3: process for how returnable bottles are exchanged or refunded in

457
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: store is at the retailer's discretion. There's no legislation that

458
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 3: prohibits retailers from offering store credit, voces or airtime and

459
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 3: lieu of cash in certain circumstances, particularly where bottles are

460
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: returned without a corresponding purchase. Slip that's not correct that's

461
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 3: not correct. I only got this this morning, so I

462
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 3: haven't had time to push it further. I did run

463
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 3: it by SAP, which didn't address it in its response

464
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: to me. But certainly the CPA says if a person

465
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 3: I'm reading from the Act section sixty six with those

466
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 3: are interested, if a person returns a bottle, container, palette,

467
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 3: et cetera contemplated to any any supply of goods ordinarily

468
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 3: sold in that bottle or container, the supplier must pay

469
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 3: the person the amount of the deposit, if any that

470
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,959
Speaker 3: is required to be charged in terms of bladder.

471
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: So basically there's no.

472
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 3: Must pay what the supplier charged for that object or

473
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 3: ordinarily charges for such an object. And that as we're

474
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: talking about the deposit here, irrespective of whether the person

475
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 3: returning the container paid a deposit for that object to

476
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 3: that supplier.

477
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: So they're having to produced.

478
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: A slip requirement for a slip there.

479
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, so okay.

480
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: So so I mean just to go say what what

481
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: What is is raising my eyebrows here? Is okay? So

482
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: SPA saying we'll do it if you can show a

483
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: valid purchase slip. That's not in the Act saying excess

484
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: bottles are typically not refunded in cash. That is contrary

485
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: to the act.

486
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: And that's also contrary to what food lovers said in

487
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 3: the respect of their diamondslicit.

488
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: Knowledge that they're required to pass yes. So that those

489
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: are two big red flags in the response that are

490
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: not compliant with the spirit and the letter of the CPA. Now, Wendy,

491
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: as you said, you put that spa response to SA

492
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: food lovers and the food lovers one. You've had a

493
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: brief response.

494
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 3: It will be taking further, but for now it reads

495
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 3: returnable bottles at the heart of how we operated SA

496
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 3: B Every bottle returned is cleaned, refilled, and reused, supporting

497
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: our commitment to sustainability and reducing waste.

498
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: As to speak to your point.

499
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 3: This is much bigger than you know a few rand

500
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 3: on each bottle. When you return your bottles, you should

501
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: get your deposit back. For full refund, bottles need to

502
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 3: be undamaged and reusable, returned with the correct crates or

503
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 3: packaging by the correct type and size, returned with in

504
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: a reasonable time frame. If these conditions are met, the

505
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 3: deposit must be refunded in full. Importantly, the most important

506
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: part of their response reads consumers are not required to

507
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: spend their refund in store. We expect retailers to apply

508
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 3: this process fairly and consistently, and we are actively reinforcing

509
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: this with our partners. So this is a story that's

510
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 3: got some legs, and I'm going to pursue it further,

511
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 3: specifically pushing. I mean, SB specifically asked me for SPARS response,

512
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: which I have shared with them this morning. That's not

513
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 3: a lot of time, but I think we must come

514
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 3: back next week for at least part of the show

515
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: tours that because it would appear that spas interpretation of

516
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 3: the obligations in this regard doesn't sync with either their

517
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 3: CPA or what s AB is.

518
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: Saying as the original major group.

519
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: So to be continued.

520
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: And you know, again this speaks to the much bigger issue.

521
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: It's it's the issue of of wanting to encourage the

522
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: concept of reuse, recycling, et cetera, as embedded in our economy.

523
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: It also speaks to the issue of producer responsibility agreements.

524
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: We are seeing so much of a shift in that

525
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: direction of saying the people who produce the products that

526
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: become problematic at their end of life need to take

527
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: responsibility for that fact. Here is a way of doing that.

528
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: If the retailer is not properly engaging in that process,

529
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: does the blame fall back on SAB?

530
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 3: I think retailer both, they're both holding hands on this

531
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 3: and the consumers. You know, the consumer, I would say,

532
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: if if this happens, you should report it to SAB.

533
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: And I actually asked him. I just realized now I

534
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: asked them in my query to which address? How can

535
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 3: people who have are not being given their deposits back

536
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: in the correct way? How? Who is there specific email address?

537
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: What do they do? And I've just realized now that's

538
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 3: also not on the response.

539
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: So let's follow up.

540
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 3: I'm going to follow up on all of these things

541
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 3: next week, and in the meantime, if any listeners have

542
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 3: had their own experiences of this, please tell us your

543
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: and be specific about when and at which store it happened.

544
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: So and to be to be to feedback on how

545
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: you contact SAB to report it. Also, I think in fairness,

546
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: SAB should speak to the issue that several of the

547
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: retailers raised that we can't keep taking them if you

548
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: don't collect them, which is the point I take out

549
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: of consideration. If you're a small you're a small outlet

550
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: with limited space and limited store, then yes, that becomes

551
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: a real problem for you if the truck to collect

552
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: the empties doesn't come often enough. What do you meant

553
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: to do exactly?

554
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 3: That's very valid, and I also ask that, so I've

555
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: got the bones of a response and.

556
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: I will be pursuing eat in the following week.

557
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely okay.

558
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: But having said that, love to hear from others. Has

559
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: this changed the way you purchase your beverages? Have you

560
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: switched to buying your ball in cans, for example, because

561
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: you no longer reap the benefit of the bottle deposit

562
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: because the system doesn't work as it's meant to have.

563
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: You had the same experience as David has been told

564
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: an outright no, or being told you can only get

565
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: the deposit if you spend the equivalent in store, et cetera.

566
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: What has your experience been? Are you nodding your head

567
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: listening to David's story? Send a what'sapp to O seven

568
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: two five six seven one five six seven. You're also

569
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: welcome to give us a call on two one four

570
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: four six oh five six seven day talk Consumer Talk

571
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: Email Wendy on Consumer at NOLA dot seal do today,

572
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: We've got about fifteen minutes left, which means we do

573
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: get to eat dessert today. In the form of an

574
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: open line, if you're having other consumer issues you'd like

575
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: to raise, you're very welcome to send a what's up to?

576
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: Seven two five six seven one five six seven. I'm

577
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: going to go to an email that came in during

578
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: the past week and Wendy, I'm throwing this at you

579
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: unseen because I know you haven't yet seen it. But

580
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: it is an issue we've spoken about multiple times before,

581
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: and the fact that I received this email tells me

582
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: we need to talk about it again, because clearly awareness

583
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: isn't as one hundred percent out there as we thought.

584
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: Dion wrote to me to say how very upset he

585
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: is with via go Go, the online ticketing platform that

586
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: generally comes up first when one doesn't online search for tickets.

587
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: Here is what Deon shared with me. He says, I

588
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: bought tickets through the Viagogo site in February for the

589
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: Stormers game against the Dragons at Cape Town Stadium on

590
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: twenty two March. The email I received at the time

591
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: of purchase when I paid my money said that I

592
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: would be able to download my tickets in the week

593
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: before the game. During that final week, Dion wrote, I

594
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: received further correspondence from Viagogo telling me to get that

595
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: in order to get my tickets, I first had to

596
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: register on the Stormer's website and then send them that

597
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: registration number. I tried to register, he said, but somehow

598
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: I was kicked off the Stormer's site, and when I

599
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: tried to log in again, was told my log in

600
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: credentials were wrong, and over and over again, I attempt

601
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: to reset my password, etc. None of my attempts to

602
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: get help from the stormers site proved fruitful. I then

603
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: went to the viago Go helpline and they tried to assist,

604
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: but to no avail. The problem, they said lay with

605
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: the Stormer's website and they would not take responsibility. Now

606
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: this is interesting. Dion did his homework. He went back

607
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: into the Viagogo terms and conditions on their website and

608
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: he quoted to them their following term, Our one hundred

609
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: percent order guarantee means that if for some reason we

610
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: can't get you in the door, we'll either provide replacement

611
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: tickets or a refund. Well, needless to say, Dion has

612
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: had neither he was not able to attend the game

613
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: because he never received a ticket for it, and he

614
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: has not received a refund for the money he spent

615
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: on those tickets. He was further enraged because, he said,

616
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: when I asked Viagogo for an email address where I

617
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: could lodge a complaint and motivate for a refund, they

618
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: would not give me one. They apparently have no avenue

619
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: available for a customer to lodge a complaint. I'm upset

620
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: about the way I been treated for two main reasons,

621
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: he says, I think these business practices are harmful to

622
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: the consumer and that others should be warned. And then, sorry,

623
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: the last line has just dropped off the bottom of

624
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: my printed page. I'm afraid. I'll try and find the email.

625
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: But while I look for that email, to find the

626
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: second specific issue, when there's lots in there. Okay, there's

627
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: obviously a problem with the Stormers website registration process, and

628
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: that's sort of mechanism not working. But the bottom line

629
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: has Viagogo made no mention of a Storm's registration at

630
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: the time that ticket was sold to deal and.

631
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: I don't see the relevance of it. Yeah either, actually,

632
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: so definitely not that's it was sold on misleading terms,

633
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: missing terms. Thank you brain fog has speak today. But

634
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 3: certainly we've done these shows before, as you say, and

635
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: I've quoted that exact line that Deon did about one

636
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: hundred percent auder guarantee, the problem being that people would

637
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: have to go to the show in some cases or

638
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: the event and then be turned away at the door

639
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 3: in order for them to say while you didn't on

640
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: the tickets. And so in short, he's obviously due a refund,

641
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: and I'd be happy to take up the case. I'm

642
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: trying to look through past shows here quickly to see

643
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 3: if I can find that address, but I've certainly I

644
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: use a media address for via goo goos. Yes, I

645
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: can take that up, but I think we should share

646
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 3: he says, there's no email for refunds. There definitely is one.

647
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: It's probably bizarre that they would not share.

648
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 3: It for hidden yes, and so we'll do that as well.

649
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: But that's as much as I can say for now.

650
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: I did send Dion a link to an article on

651
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: our website from the last time we spoke about this issue, saying,

652
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, take a listen to this podcast and hopefully

653
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: this might be of assistance in finding some of the

654
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: answers you're looking for, including the contact information. But the

655
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: reason I raised it again today is the fact that

656
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: Dion didn't know. As we've said before, see the word

657
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: via go go run in the opposite directions. The volume

658
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: of complaints internationally we've spoken to I can't remember their name,

659
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: the international crusader who've got her OBE for the work

660
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: she's done on this about the problems that there are

661
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: international platforms trying to help vir go go customers and it's.

662
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: All boils down to prepare the fact I forget the

663
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: exact term, the fact that people are able companies are

664
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: able to pay for the search engine optimization so that

665
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: they pay a lot for their name to come up

666
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 3: or their their start to come up first. And it's

667
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: not going to screen via go go. You actually have

668
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: to go to the URL website addressed to see so

669
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: the address. So this is becoming more and more important.

670
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 3: Whether you're buying a pair of shoes, remember the sketches

671
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: pares you really, before you make a payment, just check

672
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: that URL.

673
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: Check it's the one that you mean to be on.

674
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: We did the story just before Valentine's Day. With that,

675
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: I think we did kep talk with this woman, private

676
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: independent florist in Durban North. She did a lot of

677
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 3: social media marketing and the run up to Valentine's Day,

678
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: bought all the flowers and somebody made a booking just

679
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 3: put in her address, her name, I think it was

680
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 3: Flowers on Kensington whatever, and the result that came up

681
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: was actually a net flowist one and this chap placed

682
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: the order on net Flourists instead of hers, and she

683
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 3: wented social media and I got a sorted art notified

684
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: ned Forest and they said it shouldn't really happen like

685
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 3: that with the whole name, and we'll get it sorted art.

686
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 3: But again, just get into the habit. Every time you

687
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: go to make a payment, just before you press pay,

688
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 3: look at the website address and make an ensure that

689
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: you're where you want to be.

690
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: And if you are buying tickets for an event, I

691
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: mean we see you know, a mindful of the factor

692
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: every time. For example, the Kurston Bosh Summer Sunset Concerts

693
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: send out a press release about who's on this weekend.

694
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: There is a reminder at the end that web tickets

695
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: is the only ticketing platform. Please make sure you're on

696
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: that site, because if you were to go into Google

697
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: then type in Kirsten Bosh, Matthew Mole or whatever it

698
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: may be, so much of the time you will find

699
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: the very first listing that comes up is a ticket

700
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: scalping organization reselling tickets, often at vastly inflated prices.

701
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: Always inflating. And you remember the one company told us

702
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: it was an events company. They hadn't even set their prices.

703
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 3: Somebody wanting to jump in quickly and get It's often

704
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: with these concert tickets that sell out really faster. You

705
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 3: think you're getting ahead of the game, and you're just

706
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,479
Speaker 3: on one of these sites so and always paying much

707
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 3: more than the actual It's.

708
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: Not unique to South Africa. And while I'm sitting here

709
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: talking about it, I'm thinking of a recent personal example.

710
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: So I am traveling at the end of this month,

711
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: very very excited to finally fulfilling a dream of going

712
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: to see the Palace Versai, and went online to try

713
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: and book my tickets in advance that I could be

714
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: sure I could get a ticket for the time that

715
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: I'm there. Wendy, it took me about I'm not lying,

716
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,280
Speaker 1: seven or eight attempts to find the actual Versailles ticket

717
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: sales platform because there were so many options of sculpt

718
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: tickets out there, and the price differential was along the

719
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: lines of fifty sixty seventy euros more than the actual

720
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: ticket price. It's a huge amount of money. And you know,

721
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 1: I landed on the first page, I saw the price

722
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: it was quoted, and I went, I don't know if

723
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this anymore, because that's way beyond

724
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: the budget I'd set aside for this. And then I thought, sure,

725
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: that seems like really a lot. Let me just double check,

726
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: and sure enough what looked like and it was, you know,

727
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: it was called you know, called Versaide tickets or something

728
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: like that similar to it looks legitimate. But when you

729
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: drill down and do your research and ask what is

730
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: the official ticketing platform, you find a similar but different site.

731
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: So again, if you are buying, whether it's concert tickets,

732
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: I mean they're the main even visas, Yep, you're right, Okay,

733
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: it's another service that that this comes up. Don't just

734
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: assume that the most logical, legitimate source is the first

735
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: link that comes up, because very often these days it's

736
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: now number five, six, seven, eight down the line. So

737
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: and even if it looks like the legitimate source, check

738
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: on every step of the transaction that you're still on

739
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: the page of a legitimate one.

740
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: You could be click on a link and go forward

741
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 3: to another. Yeah, it's a big problem, and people who

742
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 3: aren't vigilant are getting caught and losing a lot of money.

743
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So Dion, I'm really really sorry that it happened

744
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: to you. I hope you were able to retrieve I did,

745
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: and I'm remembering now because this was the two or

746
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: three weeks ago. It was just as you left. Wendy,

747
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: I sent d on the podcast of our conversation with

748
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: the Obe lady, including her address, because she, from an

749
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: international perspective, takes up these cases. So, Dian, I don't

750
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: know if you're listening today and have have had any

751
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: success getting hold of her, or if anybody from via

752
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: go Go has come back to you with a refund,

753
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: But if you have, please update us and pop me

754
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: a follow up email to pipr h at Cape Talk

755
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: dot co dot s. But you know, Wendy, it's very

756
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: it's very seldom that I say simply do not use

757
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: an operator. But in thirteen years of doing the show,

758
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: we have had such an overwhelming number of complaints of this,

759
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: NAT share that that this is one where I'm quite

760
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: happy to stick my neck out and say I would

761
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: not book a ticket on Via Go Go if you

762
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: paid me to go to the concert. So there we go, Dion.

763
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that you learned that the hard way as well.

764
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: O seven two five six seven one five six seven

765
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: if you want to raise an open line topic. Some

766
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: all feedback on the bottle deposit issue from Frank who

767
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: says the Okay liquor stores also do not take empty

768
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: bottles back. Just yes, yesterday I went to the Okay

769
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: liquor in Maitland. They refused to give me a deposit

770
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: for the crate as well as the empty bottles. Is

771
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: is comment. So that's one to add to the list,

772
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: Wendy for future future research. Then going back to your

773
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: earlier comment about in some cases it really does pay

774
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: to use a travel agent. Two comments. Firstly from another

775
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: travel agent listening, Nikki just saying a huge thank you

776
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: for raising this issue we're all dealing with so meant

777
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: so much in the world right now. She really appreciates

778
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: the recognition that they still have a role to play.

779
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: And Nicky, thank you for that, and then an interesting

780
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: point and comment from Colleen. She says, if one books

781
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: through a travel agent, do you still get things like

782
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: the Discovery Vitality discount which can be a considerable difference

783
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: in the month that you pay for your ticket? Could

784
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: this please be covered next time you do a travel

785
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: focused segment. Off the top of your head, Wendy, do

786
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: you know, I don't.

787
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: Know, honest, but I can't see why not. I don't

788
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 3: see why not, but I don't know.

789
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: If an agent is placing the book in.

790
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'll definitely find out easily, can I'll add that

791
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: to the follow.

792
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: Ups for next week.

793
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: I know that we have some travel agents listening if

794
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: you're able to give us an immediate response. So, if

795
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: a Discovery Vitality customer comes to you and says, I

796
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: am a Vitality member, are you able to incorporate their

797
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: Vitality discount if you book it? Or does that only

798
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: apply if it's booked through Vitality's own agents. I'm not

799
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: a member, so I don't really know how that process work.

800
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: Any help, Okay?

801
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: If anybody has had experience with us and can give

802
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: us a media to feedback, please do send a what's

803
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: up to seven to five six seven one five six

804
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: seven right, somebody's asking where can I find the podcast

805
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: of the Travel Agent conversation you're referencing on Primedia plus

806
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: dot com if you click through. Let me just walk

807
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: you through how to find podcasts from this show. So

808
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: you start on the group landing page Primedia plus dot com.

809
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: On the left hand side of the page, you'll see

810
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: the cape Talk name and logo. You click there to

811
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: get through to the cape Talk section and then look

812
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: for my face or the title Lunch with Purple Hudson

813
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: and click on that. You will then see the podcasts

814
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: from the show load and you'll need to scroll back

815
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: two or three weeks to the travel feature.

816
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 3: Well left, I would say three weeks at least three

817
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: weeks at least okay, but looking specifically for Wonder the

818
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: World the travel segment, and it'll be clearly notified.

819
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: Thank you, Andy, You'll be clearly notified there. So you

820
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: should be a just have some patients in scrolling back

821
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: because there will now be three weeks of subsequent interviews

822
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: loaded in front of it. But you will be able

823
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: to find it if you go back. Okay, Lynn confirming

824
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: Travel Agents cannot book using Vitality. They fear you have

825
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: to book directly with Vitality, and that's seconded by Andrew.

826
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: Thank you so, Colleen, that's an interesting point. Okay, So

827
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: if you're wanting to claim the discount, you've got a

828
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: book through their specific platform, and I wonder if I

829
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: offer you any support if anything goes wrong. That's a

830
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: follow up question as anybody who did have a Vitality

831
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: booking who encountered difficulties, what kind of follow up service

832
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: did you get?

833
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: Will help you on a Sunday morning, as I was helped.

834
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: Helped by Megan. Yeah, quite a few people asking where

835
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: they'll find Megan Wendy. Won't you disrepute her agency details?

836
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 3: Yes?

837
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I should have had this ready.

838
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 3: She's one of the independent agents under the Envoyage sort

839
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 3: of banner as part of flight Center. I'm sure if

840
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: you if you somebody wants to send me an email,

841
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: I'll give them her details direct. I've got her permission

842
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: to share them on Monday. Don't do that. She doesn't

843
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 3: even I mean, she was expecting this, so so yeah,

844
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 3: I can. I can definitely put people onto her privately.

845
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for that, but she falls under this So

846
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: it's the undoyage section of Flight Center.

847
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, she's based on someset Wes's not that it

848
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: really matters.

849
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: You've made me terribly nervous now because of course my

850
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: upcoming booking I did by myself online. But it's a

851
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: simple trip for one person in a direct flight. I

852
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: hope that's gonna all go.

853
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 2: You can always get hold of me if you're in a.

854
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: Bad there is that. I won't call you three in

855
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: the morning. Promise.

856
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wait to answer, but you can.

857
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: One thing while we're talking travel, and perhaps to just

858
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: finish with this, a word to anybody who is traveling,

859
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: even if you are not traveling through the Middle East

860
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks, please be mindful of the fact

861
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: the knock on impact of what is happening in the

862
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: Middle East is affecting airports and airlines outside the region

863
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: as well. The war in the Middle East is affecting

864
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: airports and airlines outside the region as well. Were talking

865
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: about heightened security, longer waiting peers to book in for

866
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: flights because of this. So the advice that I have

867
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: been hearing over and over again from multiple professionals in

868
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 1: the travel industry is whatever you think is your normal

869
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: reasonable amount of time to get there in advance drastically expanded.

870
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: So if you would normally arrive one hour before a

871
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: local flight, make it too. If you would normally arrive

872
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: two hours before an international flight, make it three or four.

873
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: If you are traveling through child Gaul, I have been told,

874
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: make it four or five. Apparently, huge security very much

875
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: longer waits to go through the security check ins and scans,

876
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: et cetera, So please be mindful of that. Even if

877
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: you are not flying via Doha or Dubai, it doesn't

878
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 1: mean you're not going to be affected by the knock

879
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: on impact.

880
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 3: My experience certainly bears that out.

881
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: Okay, and Wendy again, I'm sorry you went through such

882
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: a fraud trip home, but we're very glad to have

883
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: you back, and thanks, as always for all the work

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00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: on behalf of our listeners. If you do want to

885
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: lodge a new complaint with Wendy, you can do so

886
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: on her website Wendy Nola dot co dotz and that

887
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: is spelled k n O w l e R Wendynola

888
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: dot co dotz a