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Speaker 1: Seven oh two Weekend Breakfast The Nature Diary with Tim Neary.

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Speaker 2: It's twenty three minutes before seven o'clock. Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: seven o two Weekend Breakfast with Miggs and Flimo. It

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Speaker 2: is a Sunday which means sometimes to talk nature, and

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Speaker 2: this week we are looking at first of its kind

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Speaker 2: community center that's been constructed out of invasive alien plant material.

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Speaker 2: In a moment where we joined by CEO and senior

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Speaker 2: consultant at fut we Sign, a nonprofit company, David Mason

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Speaker 2: joined now in studio as always by a residence here

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Speaker 2: in eh conservationist Tim Neary.

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Speaker 3: Tim, good morning.

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Speaker 4: Good morning. Are we bright eyed and bushy tailed?

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Speaker 3: I think so?

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Speaker 4: Yes? Okay, it was a bit of hesitation.

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Speaker 3: I just had to just a quick wellness check. Yep,

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Speaker 3: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, how are you?

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Speaker 4: I am? What did I say?

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Speaker 1: That? Old fashion sing tistical spectacles, wallet and watches.

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Speaker 4: I'm ready to go.

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Speaker 3: I am all the bids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I got all the bits in all the

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Speaker 1: right places. There's a song about that, all the bits

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Speaker 1: in all the right place.

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Speaker 3: Really must find it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly how it works, yeah, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it's all of it's in all the right places.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that's good.

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Speaker 3: I have some news for you. What's that It relates

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Speaker 3: to sharks in the Bahamas.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 2: So apparently sharks have been found ingesting cocaine and pain

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Speaker 2: killers and caffeine in some popular tourist hotspots in the Bahamas.

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Speaker 4: Why they're eating tourists, No.

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Speaker 2: Which is the problem. So there's a study that was done.

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Speaker 2: It was published in Environmental Pollution. It's the first time

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Speaker 2: cocaine and the clothinac were found in clo cloth andac.

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Speaker 3: That sounds like a painkiller.

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Speaker 1: Dark clothinac is voltaic. Yes, so you can't give dark

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Speaker 1: clothinac to cattle, et cetera, or horses. They're going to

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Speaker 1: be used in what they call vulture restaurants because it

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Speaker 1: kills the vultures. Ah, there's a whole study done. It

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Speaker 1: took it wiped out vulture in India in vast areas.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So out of eighty five sharks captured for the research,

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Speaker 2: twenty eight, including the Caribbean reef, the Atlantic nurse, the

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Speaker 2: lemon sharks, they all showed detectable levels of the substances

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Speaker 2: or the caffeine, the cocaine, the voltairean all of that.

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Speaker 2: They're also seeing altered metabolic markers.

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Speaker 3: And the sharks. We don't know yet what that means.

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Speaker 2: We haven't observed like what happens when a shark is

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Speaker 2: on cocaine.

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Speaker 3: We're not shot.

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of a crackhead shark. I mean they

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Speaker 1: get bad rap as it is. Now we've got drug

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Speaker 1: added sharks. Do you get shark dealers? And are they

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Speaker 1: now raiding? Maybe they're raiding. They've got those those submarine

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Speaker 1: things that trot across all across the planet where they

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Speaker 1: try and get their move drugs in these sort of

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Speaker 1: like semi submergible vessels, right, and.

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Speaker 3: You think maybe the sharks.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the sharks get robbing those Do you get hijacked?

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Speaker 1: Do you get hijacked? And they have had those bags

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Speaker 1: of cocaine and all, which they throw overboard because they

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Speaker 1: know where the current is and then they wash ashore

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Speaker 1: or be picked up, et cetera. They're quite sophisticated. They've

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Speaker 1: even got tracking devices in so they can be found.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, So now the sharks have rumbled onto this lot.

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Speaker 1: Can you think, please, guys, is somebody a cartoon artist?

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Speaker 1: Because I can just visualize a crackheade shark with another

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Speaker 1: one with limping past with his funny in whatever, taking

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Speaker 1: Voltaire and so that he can get his no coor.

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Speaker 1: This has got to be ridiculous, but jokes aside. I

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Speaker 1: mean you think of it. Think of all the water.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in places like London, the water carries vast

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Speaker 1: quantities of estrogen and all sorts of things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to remember. There's one in particular, of

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Speaker 1: the the drugs for anxiety, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: It's detectable in the water.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I said to somebody the other

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Speaker 1: day we were talking about, you know, eating healthily, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: They said, yes, no, they'll have a slide. They'd love

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Speaker 1: a piece of salmon with a side slice of mercury.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we really made a mark of

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Speaker 1: the planet, haven't we.

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Speaker 2: We really, and we've been here so briefly. Yes, dinosaurs

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Speaker 2: roamed this earth for millions.

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Speaker 1: And that's what they say, you know, save the whales,

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Speaker 1: save the snails, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Do the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Who's caused it? Guys, this's just back up a little bit. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and whales and snails and all sorts of been here

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Speaker 1: one hell of a lot longer than we have.

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Speaker 3: They really have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know ancience. Yeah, I mean we've made it.

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Speaker 1: And I will always say, you know what what happened?

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Speaker 1: Everybody says, you know, you want to leave South Africa?

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Speaker 1: Could you tell me then why missus Pleasant Company packed

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Speaker 1: up and left? I mean, was there problem back then?

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Speaker 1: Come on, this is like universal potholes back then. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was the potholes. It was the potholes and BC's

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Speaker 1: wheel right back to the more serious things and some

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Speaker 1: good news.

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Speaker 2: Actually, when you think of invasive alien species or invasive

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Speaker 2: alien plants, we kind of are a bit despondent. You

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Speaker 2: kind of think, well, I don't know what to do there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you think of how to be a

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Speaker 2: sport dam, is it the hyacinth that's kind of taken.

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Speaker 1: Over another hyacinth that they keep putting a couple of

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Speaker 1: bugs on, and the fish eat the bugs, and the

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Speaker 1: bugs eat the fish, and yeah, nothing happens.

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Speaker 3: In the hyacinth is like, Hi, I'm still here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a sense of despondency. I think when

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Speaker 2: we talk about invasive alien plants but this is so

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Speaker 2: cool that there's an organization that's found a really good

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Speaker 2: way to use them.

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Speaker 1: I like this because, look, I mean, you've got to

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Speaker 1: be very careful about how you talk about invasive alien plants. Okay,

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Speaker 1: mealies as an example, those vast meli fields in the

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Speaker 1: Free State, those are invasive alien millies. But the only

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Speaker 1: difference is that they would be they would continue if

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Speaker 1: the corn would fall on the ground and they would

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Speaker 1: sprout and go again. A lot of it is escape

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Speaker 1: ees in and a lot of it is all tended

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Speaker 1: areas that have been allowed to to to degenerate. But

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Speaker 1: I'm just keen on how did that come about?

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Speaker 4: This?

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Speaker 1: What is this program around? And I had to chat

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Speaker 1: to David before the program. I chatted to him I

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Speaker 1: think was on Friday and found out how they've changed.

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Speaker 1: This wasn't their focus and this is an accidental and

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Speaker 1: exciting focus.

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Speaker 2: So joining us now, if I assume is David Mason,

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Speaker 2: David CEO and senior consultant at to Put Your Sign

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Speaker 2: a nonprofit company. David, A very good morning to you,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Weekend.

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Speaker 4: Breakfast, Morning Googs, morning Ton, Thanks very much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for giving us part of your

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Speaker 2: Sunday morning, So talk to us about the work that's

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Speaker 2: been done with these invasive alien species. Which ones are

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Speaker 2: we speaking about in particular?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Thanks, So this is taking place at Ilan's Cliff,

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Speaker 4: which is a community owned piece of land up the

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Speaker 4: west coast in No Western Cape in the Cedarburgh. The

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Speaker 4: plants that they have on that land are pines, but

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Speaker 4: mainly blackwattle, so that's been the main species that's been

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Speaker 4: used in this particular project.

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Speaker 1: Now, David, I think to back up a little bit though,

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Speaker 1: this this whole thing around utilizing alien plants and all,

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Speaker 1: this wasn't where you guys started, and you started many

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Speaker 1: many years ago working with these communities.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so Pretty Sunny's focus really has been on land

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Speaker 4: reform and land administration, so really trying to work with

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Speaker 4: communities that have received land through the land of program.

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Speaker 4: In many of those communities and across the country, there

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Speaker 4: are four thousand of these let's call them communal property institutions,

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Speaker 4: so legal entities that are set up to hold the

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Speaker 4: land that people get through the land reform program. We've

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Speaker 4: been working with some of these to try and assist

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Speaker 4: them to make the land that they've received work for

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Speaker 4: them because in most situations when they get land, basically

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Speaker 4: there's no support to them at all in terms of

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Speaker 4: trying to set up their legal entity, like their systems

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Speaker 4: of actually holding the land. If you can imagine your big, large,

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Speaker 4: extended family trying to make decisions around what land to

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Speaker 4: use for what, it'll be a bonfight here. You have

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Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty people, in some situations ten thousand people.

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Speaker 4: So our work really has been around trying to assist

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Speaker 4: such community is to establish to set up those legal entities,

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Speaker 4: to set up a company if they need a company

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Speaker 4: for commercial activities. Secondly, really around the land administration, so

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Speaker 4: who should be getting what kind of land for what,

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Speaker 4: in what kind of arrangements, what are their obligations, what

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Speaker 4: are their responsibilities and so forth. And then really looking

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Speaker 4: at the development of land, so what are we going

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Speaker 4: to do on our land, how do we get the

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Speaker 4: agriculture working if it's agricultural land, et cetera. And then

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Speaker 4: with the legal entity, trying to work out those governance

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Speaker 4: and management systems. So that's been our focus really. But

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Speaker 4: Pushy Stony started working with WWF a few years ago

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Speaker 4: around water issues, and I don't know whether your listeners

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Speaker 4: know there are areas in South Africa called strategic water

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Speaker 4: source are which provide the bulk of the water we use,

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Speaker 4: but they're very tiny portion, ten percent of the land

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Speaker 4: providing fifty percent of the water. So we started working

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Speaker 4: with WWF around water and their interest and involvement in

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Speaker 4: Elan's Clue where we're working. They started looking at this

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Speaker 4: and saying, she isn't this a place that we could

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Speaker 4: do a whole number of environmental conservation focused initiatives, So

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Speaker 4: they WWF has had links with very interesting and really

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Speaker 4: where the innovation in this project comes from been having

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Speaker 4: links has links with noncrete noncrete because it essentially looks

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Speaker 4: and feels like concrete, but there's no it's it's not concrete,

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Speaker 4: it's non crete. So they drew non crete into this

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Speaker 4: project to say, can we not in this situation where

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Speaker 4: Elon's Cliff, even though they received their land in nineteen

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Speaker 4: ninety six, they still still live in informal houses. Can

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Speaker 4: we not use this as a place where on the

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Speaker 4: one hand, we give the opportunity to the Elans clover

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Speaker 4: Is to get a community center, a crest it's probably

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Speaker 4: going to be, and at the same time, show people

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Speaker 4: a building method which actually cuts down the use of concrete,

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Speaker 4: use of steel, et cetera. So non Creete became involved

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Speaker 4: then in this project, and you know, it started with

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Speaker 4: there's a whole sort of process that we've gone through

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Speaker 4: in doing this, which I can maybe go into a

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Speaker 4: little bit just now. So that's how we've shifted, and

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Speaker 4: at Elon's Cloff, that kind of shifts gone further because

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Speaker 4: we're now with WWFS support and leadership really on moving

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Speaker 4: to the situation where a portion of that elunch Cliff land,

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Speaker 4: which is really pristine Cedarburgh land, is going to be

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Speaker 4: put under conservation. The community has decided at the AGM

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Speaker 4: at the end of last year to proceed and put

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Speaker 4: some of their land under nature conservation. Somehow we haven't

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Speaker 4: decided at what level yet. So that's been the shift

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Speaker 4: at elunch Cluff.

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Speaker 1: Now you're surrounded by all these aliens, what sort of

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Speaker 1: process do you go through to decide, hang on, we

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Speaker 1: can actually use this stuff as building material because most

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Speaker 1: people look at the alien vegetation, they cut it down,

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Speaker 1: they put it in a big bile and they drop

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Speaker 1: a match in into that problem.

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Speaker 4: We have a huge problem in South Africa, and that

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Speaker 4: is we have many, many thousands of hectares of alien

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Speaker 4: vegetation which grow very very fast. So we've got to

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Speaker 4: we've got to understand we we've got to work out

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Speaker 4: a way of almost creating a market for the use

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Speaker 4: of alien vegetation. Otherwise we're not going to be able

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Speaker 4: to afford to get rid of it. So we have

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Speaker 4: to use our money in ways which clears alien vegetation

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Speaker 4: but also achieves other objectives in the States, for example.

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Speaker 4: So what happens in this process, Well, what happened in

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Speaker 4: our particular process at elunch Clove that Noncrete really drove

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Speaker 4: was they set up a small factory in Cape Town

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Speaker 4: where they did a whole lot of testing. Because remember

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Speaker 4: this has been a very it's been a research and

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Speaker 4: development process as well as actually changing situation at elus Clove.

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Speaker 4: So they do beast the alien the bricks that they

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Speaker 4: make I'm not part of non creep, but the bricks

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Speaker 4: that they make I essentially chipped alien vegetation. They chip

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Speaker 4: it to one sort of size and then they chip

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Speaker 4: it again depending on what they're going to be using

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Speaker 4: it for, whether bricks or making a flaw to different

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Speaker 4: size and they mix it with their particular MUTI that

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Speaker 4: they have developed, and at the factoring cape time to

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Speaker 4: refined us and refined us and then got it through

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Speaker 4: through testing. So they tested it in terms of both

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Speaker 4: load and in terms of fire. So they put it

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Speaker 4: into a furnace for three hours at one two hundred

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Speaker 4: degrees centigrade and there was very little destruction of the bricks.

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Speaker 4: So can you imagine doing that in areas let's call

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Speaker 4: them shack sheck neighborhoods when you get a shack fire

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Speaker 4: going through its spreads, Like hell, if you could, if

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Speaker 4: we could be making such houses out of this noncrete material,

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Speaker 4: we wouldn't have those shack files. So it's just very

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Speaker 4: interesting and extremely exciting to go to those tests to

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Speaker 4: see how both under load and under fire this material

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Speaker 4: was really coming up tops.

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Speaker 2: And so I was going to say, and so when

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Speaker 2: you make the bricks, is it is it just purely

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Speaker 2: this kind of the water biomass or is there a

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Speaker 2: combination of other things in there? Like are their stones

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Speaker 2: in there? Because as you're describing it, it's quite resilience,

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Speaker 2: like fire resistance, It can handle load, And someone might think, well,

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Speaker 2: is it mixed with some of the more traditional kinds

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Speaker 2: of material for building.

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Speaker 4: So there is a bit of cement in it, there's

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Speaker 4: no sand in it, and you know they with the bricks,

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Speaker 4: the the chipping is less fine. So you can see

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Speaker 4: on a brick you can see the chipped alien bridge there.

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Speaker 4: So it's just it's just chips and this alien and

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Speaker 4: this mix that they've developed with a bit of cement.

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Speaker 4: So that's that's what it is. And it's yeah, it's

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Speaker 4: been it's been very interesting for ourselves. You know, we're

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Speaker 4: not being we haven't been involved in this to see

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Speaker 4: this this brick and how it's developed and being refined

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Speaker 4: with this R and D process. But that gone through.

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Speaker 1: Now a project like this though, can this be replicated

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Speaker 1: in other areas? And does it have to be produced

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Speaker 1: in their factory, dragged all the alien vegetation, dragged it down,

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Speaker 1: produced and dragged back again. Is this something that is

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Speaker 1: that you can actually do on site?

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Speaker 4: Well? At Elandsklu, sixteen thousand bricks were made and from

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Speaker 4: the alien vegetation area which is in the you know,

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Speaker 4: most most of the alien vegetation. The uns cluff occurs

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Speaker 4: in the river bed from there to they used the

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Speaker 4: old church which was empty at the time to be

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Speaker 4: the place where the bricks were made from from where

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Speaker 4: they cleared the aliens to the bricks to the actual crest.

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Speaker 4: Crest was five hundred meters, so in terms of your

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Speaker 4: carbon footprint on travel on transport, it's absolutely zero. So

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Speaker 4: you've got to be able to you know, the best

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Speaker 4: thing is in situations like at Citrus Doll, which is

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Speaker 4: the town very near. They have quite a large informal

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Speaker 4: settlement in Citrus Doll right next to the river, which

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Speaker 4: is full of alien vegetation. So it's an ideal situation

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Speaker 4: where on site you can actually produce the bricks. It

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Speaker 4: can be used right there next to it. So you

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Speaker 4: know that it's in situations where there is a lot

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Speaker 4: of alien vegetation, there is very limited transport needed, you know,

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Speaker 4: lots of you don't have to bring in a whole

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Speaker 4: lot of steel. Part of the crush, if I can

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Speaker 4: just say part of the crash is that noncrete designed

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Speaker 4: with the assistance of a university in Switzerland, designed a

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Speaker 4: floor roof structure which is as in the form of

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Speaker 4: an arch. I mean, if you think of all the

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Speaker 4: very old buildings in Europe that use an arch design.

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Speaker 4: So they designed this and the only only steel that

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Speaker 4: is in that is six sort of steel cables which

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Speaker 4: all the bulk of the the roof together, if you

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Speaker 4: see what I'm saying. So with their roof design, they

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Speaker 4: also really have cut out the use of steel or

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Speaker 4: cut down the use of steel. So you've got a

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Speaker 4: situation here where sand, which is our hugest problematic product

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Speaker 4: in the world, in the most highest I think we

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Speaker 4: use a huge econto Remember what the statistics are a

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Speaker 4: huge amount of sand that's been cut out here and

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Speaker 4: still being the two main things that have cut out

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Speaker 4: in this building process.

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Speaker 2: That sounds really really fascinating. And David almost thank you

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Speaker 2: so much also giving us your time this morning and

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Speaker 2: telling us about this fantastic work.

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Speaker 4: Great, that's fine, Thanks very much. I'm hoping that this

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Speaker 4: will take on and be away in which we can

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Speaker 4: get rid of alien vegetation while at the same time

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Speaker 4: dealing with our house and craft South Africa.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, David.

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Speaker 2: That's David Mason, he CEO and senior consultants at a

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Speaker 2: Push Signi non profit company joined us always by Residency

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Speaker 2: A signature conservationist Tim Neary, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You, Gus, thank you Tim Yeah, I just like the

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Speaker 1: fact that you can. It's a different angle on what

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Speaker 1: to do with alien vegetation, you know, rather than just

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Speaker 1: dropping a match into it. Yeah, which is easy, Which

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Speaker 1: is easier