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Speaker 1: What is seven two weekend breakfast in the profile.

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Speaker 2: It's eleven minutes after eight o'clock. It is time for

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Speaker 2: us to hang out in the profile with a fascinating individual.

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Speaker 2: And this morning we speak to an incredible thinker that's

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Speaker 2: asking some pretty interesting questions, asking, you know, is it

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Speaker 2: possible scientifically, technically, ethically for us to live.

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Speaker 3: On not this planet, but maybe somewhere else. Maybe it

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Speaker 3: is Mars, maybe it is the Moon. And also what

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Speaker 3: do we know about the universe?

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Speaker 2: For constantly learning about space and what happens in space,

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Speaker 2: for constantly learning about the planet, what do we know?

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Speaker 2: She's a theoretical physicist. Her award winning research in quantum

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Speaker 2: biology and the origins of life has been recognized by

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Speaker 2: the Laurel UNESCO and the Royal Society of South Africa,

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Speaker 2: among others. She's the founder of an organization called Proudly Human.

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Speaker 2: She is director of the Foundation for Space Development Africa.

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Speaker 2: She's the chief scientist for Africa's first lunar mission, Africa

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Speaker 2: to Moon, which is in the running to be launched

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Speaker 2: to the Luna South Pole in twenty twenty eight, and

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Speaker 2: she's also one of the one hundred ASTRO candidates selected

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Speaker 2: from Mars one. Joining us this morning as our profile

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Speaker 2: guest is Dr Adriana Murray. If you'd like to join

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Speaker 2: our conversation, maybe you have a question, call us an

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Speaker 2: O double one eight three or seven O two, Send

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Speaker 2: us to SMSs on three on seven oh two, or

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Speaker 2: send us a what's THATPP message on seven two seven

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Speaker 2: O two one seven oh two. Doctor Murray, A very

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Speaker 2: good morning to you. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Good morning googs. So happy to be here to you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much for your time.

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Speaker 2: So if you weren't spending I guess the next forty

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Speaker 2: odd minutes with us, what does an average Sunday look

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Speaker 2: like for you?

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Speaker 4: I'd probably still be asleep, to be honest, But thank

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Speaker 4: you for getting me up on this viticle.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for giving up part of your sleep.

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Speaker 2: People so safe, so I appreciate it. So, doctor, do

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Speaker 2: you remember a time or has it always been this way?

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Speaker 2: We kind of looked at the stars or the moon

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Speaker 2: or the sky and you kind of wondered.

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Speaker 3: What was there? Were you? Was that the kind of

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Speaker 3: child you were?

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Speaker 2: Or does the fascination with space, with where we are

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Speaker 2: and what it means to be in this galaxy, in

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Speaker 2: this universe, does that come later in your life?

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Speaker 4: So I love the way you started off introducing this

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Speaker 4: conversation with asking questions. And I think sometimes when we

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Speaker 4: talk about space or physics, people feel like, oh, this

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Speaker 4: isn't a conversation for me. So firstly, I just want

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Speaker 4: to say this, this conversation and these questions you rose are.

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Speaker 1: For all of us.

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Speaker 4: So for those of us who are awake and have

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Speaker 4: seen the beautiful sunlight streaming, and you know, we are

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Speaker 4: in space. So whatever aspect of reality we're engaged with,

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Speaker 4: whether it's communities here on Earth, or whether your head's

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Speaker 4: in the clouds or the stars like mine, we're in space.

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Speaker 4: We're on a spaceship. It's called Earth. It orbits the

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Speaker 4: Sun every year, and there are so many things to

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Speaker 4: explore in this world. And for me, yes, since I

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Speaker 4: was a child, I have looked up at space and

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Speaker 4: felt a sense of belonging. So some of us feel

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Speaker 4: a sense of belonging in our hometown or our country,

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Speaker 4: or indeed on the whole planet. But for me, I

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Speaker 4: felt like my home was just bigger than just this planet,

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Speaker 4: and that there was so much more out there to discover, beyond,

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Speaker 4: of course, our beautiful home planet Earth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you remember what one of those early questions was?

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Speaker 2: Were you wondering, you know, what does the moon look like?

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Speaker 2: What does it mean to be on a different planet?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember what some of those I guess those

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Speaker 2: early questions were, And how far have you come to

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Speaker 2: I guess answering them or are you still asking questions

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Speaker 2: about them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Luckily, I think those questions will always be there for

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Speaker 4: people in research. I think we all know, and we

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Speaker 4: all know as humans that once we solve one problem,

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Speaker 4: there are a lot more over the next the hill

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Speaker 4: on the horizons. So understanding the world that we live

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Speaker 4: in is perhaps something that we will never fully achieve.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's that spirit of curiosity that's really important,

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Speaker 4: especially in this current era where there's so much going

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Speaker 4: on around us. I'll try to focus on I think

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Speaker 4: this morning, I was just thinking that if I needed

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Speaker 4: to focus on something during this conversation, it would be

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Speaker 4: the need for pause and that need to reflect on

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Speaker 4: the big questions, because in this busy era that we

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Speaker 4: live in, there's so much news I don't need to

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Speaker 4: tell you, and this listening to the radio, this beautiful morning.

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Speaker 4: All the stuff that's going on, but the taking time

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Speaker 4: to reflect on the big questions like who are we

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Speaker 4: where are we going?

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Speaker 1: Are not a luxury at this point in history.

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Speaker 4: They are absolutely critical to enable our society to move

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Speaker 4: forward positively. And I'm speaking very generally now, so you know,

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Speaker 4: for me, when I say where are we going, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to tell you updates about the human bases that

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Speaker 4: are being built on the Moon. So it's not only

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Speaker 4: possible for humans to live on the Moon, but it

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Speaker 4: will happen by twenty thirty. According to China and Partners,

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Speaker 4: of which we are one with the Foundation for Space

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Speaker 4: Development Africa with NASA and Partners, humans are going to

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Speaker 4: be living on the Moon by twenty thirty. Of course

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Speaker 4: that's the schedule, so let's see how that goes. And

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Speaker 4: then the next step would be Mars. So for some

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Speaker 4: of us, where are we going might literally be a

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Speaker 4: few day journey beyond our planet to the Moon, or

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Speaker 4: maybe a few month journey beyond our planet to Mars.

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Speaker 4: But I think these questions are so critical for all

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Speaker 4: of us to consider as a society, especially with all

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Speaker 4: the amazing tools we have at our disposal. Of course,

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Speaker 4: radio that Internet, AI or machine learning, whatever we want

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Speaker 4: to call it. All these tools that we have really

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Speaker 4: enable us, I think, to put a really big important

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Speaker 4: on us thinking about these questions and thinking how we

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Speaker 4: want to use these tools to get towards the future

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Speaker 4: that we envision for ourselves and our society.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was quite interesting that your book, and

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Speaker 2: as much as it is about kind of the questions

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Speaker 2: we are asking the research, what do we know about

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Speaker 2: other planets, what we know about the Moon, or we

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Speaker 2: know about Mars, what we know about the universe, it

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Speaker 2: all kind of starts right at the beginning, And I

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Speaker 2: think it's later in the book where you say, you know,

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Speaker 2: before we even kind of think about what that next is,

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Speaker 2: whether it is living on the Moon by twenty thirty

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Speaker 2: or living on Mars or whatever it is, that we

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Speaker 2: need to get quite quite intimately acquainted and quite knowledgeable

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Speaker 2: about this planet, the one that we're on right now.

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Speaker 2: So it seems that even though your research you're thinking

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Speaker 2: is quite you know, out there, it is about what

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Speaker 2: is up there and what does that mean for us,

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Speaker 2: A lot of it kind of says, well, we can't

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Speaker 2: ask those questions until we understand a the beginning I e.

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Speaker 2: You know, where do we come from the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the universe, but also where we are right now? Those

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Speaker 2: seem to be quite key. I guess foundations for part

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Speaker 2: of how you're thinking about all of this, all of

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Speaker 2: this knowledge, all of these questions, this research, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: So I think we should always ask questions, and we

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Speaker 4: don't need to wait for some of them to be

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Speaker 4: answered before we ask others. I think we remember being

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Speaker 4: curious children, and if we spend time around children, we

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Speaker 4: know there's just a million questions coming out.

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Speaker 1: So I think at this time where.

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Speaker 4: It feels like we've got all the answers at our fingertips,

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Speaker 4: asking questions is going to be critical whatever we do.

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Speaker 1: But I think while we rush ahead with technology.

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Speaker 4: You know, so China will have people on the Moon

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Speaker 4: by twenty thirty, Nice is endeavoring. They keep pushing the

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Speaker 4: date back, but I think it's now twenty twenty eight

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Speaker 4: where they plan to land again crews on the surface

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Speaker 4: of the Moon. I'm just using this as an example

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Speaker 4: that is going to happen. But the questions that I

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Speaker 4: am encouraging us to ask is how are we going

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Speaker 4: to explore? How are we going to move forward into

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Speaker 4: the future. You know, we have all these tools, whether

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Speaker 4: we look at it as spacecraft or machine learning algorithms,

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Speaker 4: that give us access to all the data produced by

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Speaker 4: humans over the past hundred thousand years. But the tools,

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Speaker 4: unfortunately don't tell us what to do or how to

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Speaker 4: do it. And so, you know, thinking about space, let

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Speaker 4: me just give you one example of how you know

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Speaker 4: we are not only in space, but space is in us.

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Speaker 4: So in case anyone's thinking all this conversation that it

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Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily involve me, let me tell you that all

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Speaker 4: of us, ten percent of our bodies are as old

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Speaker 4: as the universe itself. Wow, so you might think studying

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Speaker 4: the universe doesn't have much to do with you, So

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Speaker 4: let me remind you ten percent of your body is

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Speaker 4: over thirteen billion.

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Speaker 1: Years old, so you have inside yourselves.

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Speaker 4: We all have inside ourselves a record of the entire

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Speaker 4: lineage of the universe. So whether or not we contemplate

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Speaker 4: that on a daily basis, or whether we are living

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Speaker 4: our lives without thinking about it. Specifically, the hydrogen atoms

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Speaker 4: that form the water molecules that form more than half

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Speaker 4: of our body.

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Speaker 1: As we know, we largely made up of H two water.

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Speaker 4: Those hydrogen atoms were formed soon after the Big Bang,

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Speaker 4: and there's no other significant process that we know of

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Speaker 4: in the universe that produces that hydrogen. So, no matter

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Speaker 4: what you may think, space is in you and you

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Speaker 4: are in space.

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Speaker 1: And it's that kind of thinking.

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Speaker 4: I think that we need to reflect more on as

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Speaker 4: we explore, whether that's exploring in our careers on Earth

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Speaker 4: or whether that's literally doing space and exploration, is to

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Speaker 4: remember and revisit this.

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Speaker 1: Truth that we are all interconnected.

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Speaker 4: So the DNA that makes up our genetics and humans

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Speaker 4: is shared with the birds I'm looking at outside the wind,

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Speaker 4: and how the trees, the insects, the bacteria, all the

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Speaker 4: animals and plants and living organisms on this planet share DNA.

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Speaker 4: So if we are looking for empathy with each other,

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Speaker 4: with other creatures living on this Earth, you know, in

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Speaker 4: our very matter that makes up our bodies, there is

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Speaker 4: this interconnectedness with space, with all of the life on

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Speaker 4: Earth and with each other. And I think when we

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Speaker 4: focus more on collaboration, and maybe I can tell you

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Speaker 4: a bit about the African's Immune project, this can be

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Speaker 4: a segue to that that collaboration I think needs to

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Speaker 4: play a far stronger role in the way that we

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Speaker 4: ask questions, in the way that we try to answer

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Speaker 4: these questions, and in.

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Speaker 1: The way that we explore the reality around us.

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Speaker 4: To try to get better answers to these questions is

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Speaker 4: to work together and see the common humanity, common life,

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Speaker 4: and common matter. Indeed, the very matter that makes us

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Speaker 4: up is shared with every thing that exists in this universe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you writing your book that often when we think

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Speaker 2: of evolution, we often think of this idea of competition. Whereas,

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Speaker 2: as you were saying, now that we should really be

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Speaker 2: thinking about, you know, what is this kind of shared

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Speaker 2: feel like of a better word, it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: shared reality, the shared destiny.

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Speaker 3: What does it mean?

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Speaker 2: You know, as you're saying to kind of to collaborate,

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Speaker 2: And it sounds as though it's not even just you know,

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Speaker 2: between humans, that we as a species could collaborate better

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Speaker 2: among ourselves, but in collaboration with I guess every every

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Speaker 2: other kind of specie that we share the planet withdth

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Speaker 2: And some people could argue that, you know, humans ascension

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Speaker 2: to the top of the food chain, to being kind

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Speaker 2: of at the very top of the evolution has been

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Speaker 2: at the cost of other species. And it kind of

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Speaker 2: seems that you are asking that, Well, we think about well,

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Speaker 2: what if we reframe that, Well, what if we think

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Speaker 2: about that differently to how we've done the past, you know,

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Speaker 2: a ssue of how we've done in the past. Talk

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Speaker 2: to us a bit more about that, and also how

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Speaker 2: the African to Moon project I guess kind of fits

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Speaker 2: into that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect, thank you.

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Speaker 4: So we may have been told that life is about competition,

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Speaker 4: survival of the fittest. We may have been told humans

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Speaker 4: are at the top of the food chain, and in

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Speaker 4: many ways, as you have mentioned, we have. Our proliferation

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Speaker 4: has led to the destruction of our environment, which has

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Speaker 4: impact a lot of other species. But when we really

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Speaker 4: look at it, more than half of our cells are

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Speaker 4: not human. So there are all sorts of different organisms

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Speaker 4: living within our own bodies.

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Speaker 1: Right now.

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Speaker 4: You might find that creepyer, you might find it beautiful,

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Speaker 4: but there are a plethora of organisms living in your

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Speaker 4: body that keep you alive. So the extent of which

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Speaker 4: we are at the top of the food chain is

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Speaker 4: really underpinned by the forests and the oceans and the

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Speaker 4: algae therein that produces the oxygen that we breathe. All

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Speaker 4: of the plants, like regulating the conditions that we live

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Speaker 4: in as well as providing food and the animals. Also,

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Speaker 4: it's one big system. And when we start to say

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Speaker 4: that one aspect of it is more important than any other,

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Speaker 4: I think we lose sight of how the natural world

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Speaker 4: really works. So this might be a bit of a leap,

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Speaker 4: but let me tell you how we are manifesting this

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Speaker 4: kind of philosophy in real life with the Africa Immoon project.

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Speaker 4: So for children who are born in Africa and look

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Speaker 4: up at the night sky with a sense of wondering

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Speaker 4: which are planets, which are stars? Maybe they've got some

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Speaker 4: relative that's explaining to them or some app which can

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Speaker 4: tell you what's what nowadays, But do they feel a

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Speaker 4: sense of belonging and do they feel importantly a sense

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Speaker 4: of participation. So at the moment, in spite of a

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Speaker 4: bunch of space agencies established around Africa, we've had no

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Speaker 4: official participation in the crude space exploration are either astronaut

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Speaker 4: programs that have seen people living in Earth orbit in

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Speaker 4: the Chinese Space Station or the International Space Station for

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Speaker 4: the past more than twenty years now, and Africa has

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Speaker 4: not led its own space exploration mission yet.

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Speaker 1: So the reason for that is.

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Speaker 4: Complicated, but let's put it simply. When we estimated how

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Speaker 4: much it would cost to get our telescope to the Moon.

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Speaker 4: Now people might know that we're building the SKA, the

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Speaker 4: square kilometer array radio telescope in the Northern Cape. So

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Speaker 4: we've got a lot of expertise from the scientists, to

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Speaker 4: the engineers, to the technicians on building radio telescopes. So

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Speaker 4: when we looked at putting a radio telescope on the

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Speaker 4: Moon as as a wild idea, and let me give

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Speaker 4: a shout out here to doctor Carlo Sharp Mitchell who

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Speaker 4: first envisioned putting balls.

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Speaker 1: This is a unique design.

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Speaker 4: She's come up with four radio telescope, a set of

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Speaker 4: balls that would sit on the surface of the Moon,

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Speaker 4: and the radio astronomy from the Moon. This was her

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Speaker 4: vision almost ten years ago, more than ten years ago,

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Speaker 4: when we sat down and drew up a budget for

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Speaker 4: putting Carlo's balls on the Moon.

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Speaker 1: Many jokes have been made a part these balls.

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Speaker 4: I'll give you the update a bit later though that

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Speaker 4: the balls are indeed going to the Moon. But when

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Speaker 4: we looked at the price tag, it's like over one

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Speaker 4: point four billion rand because mostly the launch to launch

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Speaker 4: to the Moon would cost around one point.

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Speaker 1: Three billion Rand.

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Speaker 4: And then there's you know, rounding decimal points for the

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Speaker 4: rest of the costs of all of the people that

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Speaker 4: needs to be employed to do this, all of the

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Speaker 4: manufacturing that needs to be happy, that needs to happen,

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Speaker 4: the assembly all of these things would cost you around

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Speaker 4: one point four billion rand.

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Speaker 1: What I can say is.

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Speaker 4: That through collaboration, through Carlo's vision and bringing the team

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Speaker 4: on board, which is the Africa Commune team, a team

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Speaker 4: of volunteers of engineers, scientists and experts from around the

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Speaker 4: world making this happen, we managed to cross off all

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Speaker 4: the line items on this budget so that we are

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Speaker 4: left with requiring around nine million rand after one point

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Speaker 4: four billion rand. Because of collaboration, so our team has

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Speaker 4: volunteered their time. We have got companies on board. We've

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Speaker 4: got us three from UKZ and we've got Petrol. We've

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Speaker 4: got the Stellenbosh Department of Engineering assisting us with manufacturing

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Speaker 4: and building and assembling the components necessary for the telescope.

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Speaker 4: We've got all the engineers who've done the design work,

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Speaker 4: the scientists who will be looking at the data, all

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Speaker 4: volunteering their time. The biggest ligne its left is of

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Speaker 4: course the launch and I must say China's approach to

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Speaker 4: space exploration has moved us away from what was called

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Speaker 4: before the space race into a real space collaboration. So

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Speaker 4: China has been offering opportunities for international payloads to travel

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Speaker 4: to the Moon for the past few missions that they've

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Speaker 4: been sending to the Moon, all of which have been

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Speaker 4: successful so far. So we applied in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 4: to send our Africa to Moon telescope to the Moon

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Speaker 4: with China on Changa eight in twenty twenty nine, and

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Speaker 4: last year we were in Shanghai at China Space Day

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Speaker 4: and our fifteen kilogram telescope was accepted to travel to

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Speaker 4: the Moon with the Chinese mission in twenty twenty nine.

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Speaker 4: And there's no financial exchange between us and the Chinese team.

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Speaker 4: Lots and lots of meetings, lots and lots of documents,

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Speaker 4: lots and lots of trips to and fro, shipping of

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Speaker 4: components for testing, etcetera, etcetera. But basically Africa will be

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Speaker 4: sending our first all African, African designed, African built, African

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Speaker 4: envisaged radio telescope space exploration mission to the surface of

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Speaker 4: the Moon in twenty twenty nine, and we've managed to

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Speaker 4: achieve everything that we've done so far through the spirit

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Speaker 4: of collaboration and the shared vision that we see a

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Speaker 4: future for Africa participating in space exploration and not simply

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Speaker 4: observing what is happening at this exciting time for exploring

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Speaker 4: the Moon and perhaps further afield in the next few years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a question here from Ben in Randburg.

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Speaker 2: He asks on WhatsApp. I've been arguing with my professor

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Speaker 2: about who the leader of this new space race is.

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Speaker 2: She argues for Elon Musk and NASA. I argue for

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Speaker 2: the Chinese space admin. Please could your guest as an expert,

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Speaker 2: to provide some clarity on this topic. And I guess

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Speaker 2: the idea of a space race comes from, you know,

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Speaker 2: the one we saw between the US and Russia and

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Speaker 2: sort of the sixties and seventies, Russia sending the first

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Speaker 2: man to the into space, America managing to put someone on.

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Speaker 3: The Moon I think it was in seventy two, and

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Speaker 3: so there's.

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Speaker 2: Always been this idea that there is, I guess, a

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Speaker 2: space race, and so maybe that's where we start with

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Speaker 2: this question, is the one right now and who is

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Speaker 2: leading it?

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Speaker 4: Thanks Gugs, and the listener's a that's a great question,

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Speaker 4: which I could go on about for ages.

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Speaker 1: Let me try to keep it short.

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Speaker 4: There's allegedly an African proverb I don't know if anyone

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Speaker 4: knows where it's from, that says a few on to

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Speaker 4: go far, go together, and without saying who's winning the

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Speaker 4: space race explicitly, we've put our sites east in terms

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Speaker 4: of collaboration forgetting our telescope reliably to the Moon. So

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Speaker 4: I can just give some facts with respect to that question.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think China's seen it as a race.

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Speaker 4: You know, they've said they will have crew on the

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Speaker 4: Moon by twenty thirty That was not in a competition

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Speaker 4: with any announcements by the US. They will put crew

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Speaker 4: on Mars in twenty thirty three. And when we look

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Speaker 4: at their track record over the last few years, they

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Speaker 4: have achieved success after success after world time first after

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Speaker 4: world time first, like landing on the far side, for

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Speaker 4: example a few years ago of the Moon, which had

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Speaker 4: never been done before. So China is running their own

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Speaker 4: race if we could find a race, but I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: call it that. And they've extended this collaborative hand two countries.

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Speaker 4: Let me just share who's else's on the Chunga eight

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Speaker 4: mission with US. We've got Bahrain and in Egypt with

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Speaker 4: a joint payload, so that's also an African mission. But

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Speaker 4: in partnership with bah Range, we've got Thailand, We've got Pakistan,

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Speaker 4: We've got Hong Kong. There's an Italian mission also, there's

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Speaker 4: an Iranian mission also on the Chunga eight mission. So

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Speaker 4: there's a whole bunch of payloads from countries you might

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Speaker 4: not normally associate with space exploration, but that through the

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Speaker 4: partnership with China, are developing rarely critical advanced manufacturing capabilities

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Speaker 4: as a result of this extremely exciting opportunity to participate

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Speaker 4: in the Chinese lander, which then deploys the scientific instruments

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Speaker 4: on the surface. In terms of the US, so there's

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Speaker 4: only been one a stand corrected, one fully successful landing

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Speaker 4: on the Moon by the US since nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 4: So what NASA has done since nineteen seventy two, which correctly,

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Speaker 4: as you said, is the last time humans were on

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Speaker 4: the Moon, is encouraged private industry to develop capabilities to

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Speaker 4: land on the Moon. And this is great for the

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Speaker 4: startups and more advanced companies that have been endeavoring to

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Speaker 4: land payloads on the Moon. One landing has been fully successful.

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Speaker 4: But if we just contrast and compare the kind of

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Speaker 4: leaps and milestones that have been reached by the CNSA

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Speaker 4: compared to NASA in the past few years, I think

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Speaker 4: we can see massive progress from the Chinese side. But

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Speaker 4: as I've said, I don't think they are viewing it

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Speaker 4: as a race. They are really viewing it as a collaboration.

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Speaker 4: And if we have seen truth in the statement that

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Speaker 4: if we go together, we go further, then I maybe

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Speaker 4: enough said about Yeah, we've made our choices about who

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Speaker 4: to partner with here, But nonetheless, I think the grandest

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Speaker 4: view for humanity would be if all resources for space

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Speaker 4: exploration were put together and shared. Imagine how much further

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Speaker 4: we could go if instead of competing, we would work together.

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Speaker 4: But nonetheless, when the crews are living on the Moon,

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Speaker 4: strangely enough or remarkably enough, the US and their partners

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Speaker 4: and China and their partners, we are one.

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Speaker 1: With our foundation for Space development.

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Speaker 4: Africa is planning to set up the permanently crude research

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Speaker 4: bases on the Moon at the South Pole. Both the

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Speaker 4: US and China are both going to be building their

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Speaker 4: bases at the Luna's South pole due to the presence

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Speaker 4: of ice and the permanently shadowed craters there, which is

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Speaker 4: important not only for water, but for oxygen and also

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Speaker 4: for hydrogen from which.

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Speaker 1: Rocket field can be produced.

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Speaker 4: So I envisaged a more collaborative future, perhaps than the

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Speaker 4: space race we saw during the Cold War era. And

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that astronauts living at the South Pole

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Speaker 4: are going to work with each other regardless of what

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Speaker 4: the government's space they are parted here on Earth.

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Speaker 2: If you've just joined us, we are in the profile

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Speaker 2: with theoretical physicist. She's an award warning researcher in quantum biology.

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Speaker 2: She's the founder of Proudly Human off World. She is

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Speaker 2: the director of the Foundation for Space Development in Africa.

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Speaker 2: She's chief scientist for the continent's first lunar mission Africa

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Speaker 2: to Moon at Doctor Adrianna Marie joins us this morning

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Speaker 2: as our profile guests, and we take your questions for

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Speaker 2: the doctor oh double one eight three oh seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: Send us your sms is on three on seven oh

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Speaker 2: two and one side messages on seven two seven oh

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Speaker 2: two one seven O two. We'll continue our conversation with

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Speaker 2: doctor Murray in a short moment, but first the check

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00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: in with your latest I Witness News sport with underneath

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Speaker 2: shader seven o two.

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00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 5: Weekend Breakfast in the profile.

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Speaker 2: It's nineteen minutes before nine o'clock. Welcome back to seven

445
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: oh two Weekend Breakfast with Me, Googs and Clung. We're

446
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: still in the profile with our wonderful guest this morning,

447
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: doctor Adrianna Murray, who's a theoretical physicist. She's done incredible

448
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 2: award winning work in quantum biology. She is the director

449
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: and founder of Proudly human or World. She's the chief

450
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 2: scientist for the continent's first Luna mission, that's Africa to Moon,

451
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 2: which is in the running to be launched to the

452
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: lunar South Pole in just two years, so twenty twenty eight.

453
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 2: And she joins us this morning to tell us about

454
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: her incredible work. And we take your calls on oh

455
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: double one eighty three or seven oh two years A

456
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 2: messis on three one seven oh two, and your WhatsApp messages.

457
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 2: I know seven two seven oh two one seven oh two.

458
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: Doctor.

459
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: I wonder when people find out that you are a

460
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: theoretical physicist that you are doing this work looking at

461
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: potentially a lunar Southpool launch in two years time, looking

462
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 2: at the feasibility the possibility of life or planet Earth.

463
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: What is the question most people ask you, either about

464
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 2: the work that you do or about the subject matter

465
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 2: about the universe, about life outside of planet Earth.

466
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks goods.

467
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 4: I think some people, some people have incredibly bad memories

468
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: of doing science at school and manchessy like, move away after.

469
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 4: That's what I do, right, And for those for those

470
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 4: of us out there, I must admit adn't. I wasn't

471
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 4: a big fan of science at school either. I found

472
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 4: it quite boring, to be honest. I think science gets

473
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 4: really exciting when instead of people telling you the world works,

474
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 4: you start doing research and asking your own questions about

475
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 4: the way things work. So then I would just encourage

476
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 4: everyone to go back to their childhood questions, because, yeah,

477
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 4: some people might feel that their questions are silly.

478
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: But do you believe in aliens?

479
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 4: That's a big one that comes up with kids, but

480
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 4: also with adults. And while that sounds like a trivial question,

481
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 4: actually that's one of the most important.

482
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: Questions we can ask.

483
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 4: You know, here we are alive, living with all the

484
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 4: other creatures in habit this planet. Are there other planets

485
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 4: out there with life on it too? Can we talk

486
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 4: to these beings? Do they know about us? Can we

487
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 4: find out stuff about them? I mean, these are big

488
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 4: questions and questions that we've also spent quite a bit

489
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 4: of money on. Although people might laugh when those questions

490
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 4: are asked, we've spent quite a bit of money as

491
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 4: humans looking for evidence of life beyond Earth, so that

492
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 4: that would be a beautiful realization to know that the

493
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 4: family of life extends way beyond our home planet, which

494
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 4: I believe it does, but we haven't yet proved that

495
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 4: scientific key.

496
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: And there's something about planet Earth.

497
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: So it seems that just looking at our solar system

498
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: that by some well, I don't want to call it lack,

499
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: I don't want to call it. Some people might call

500
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: it divine intervention. Some people might call it kind of

501
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: science that we as humans ended up on this particular

502
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: planet which is at this particular distance from the Sun

503
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: because the other planets don't seem to be as hospitable

504
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: to human and I guess the life that's on this planet,

505
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: and so you know, Mercury's too close. Venus is I

506
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 2: think gaseous. There's quite a lot of gas in its atmosphere.

507
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: The other planets kind of after the asteroid belts are

508
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: are gas giants as well.

509
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 3: Pluto and Neptune are.

510
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 2: Quite far so there's something quite special about Earth. Is

511
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: that a correct assessment that there is? Of the nine

512
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 2: planets in the Solar System, the one that we ended

513
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: up on just happens to be the right one.

514
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: There are lots of ways to answer that question.

515
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 4: I heard in the break you were saying you love Jupiter,

516
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 4: and in fact the icy moons of Jupiter.

517
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: I just wanted to.

518
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 4: Tell you it could be a great place to watch

519
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 4: the storm on Jupiter from and providing a solid ground

520
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 4: to stand on.

521
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: So that's on the side comment.

522
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 4: And these icy moons may have oceans beneath their icy crust,

523
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 4: and in those oceans may indeed be the life that

524
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 4: we haven't yet detected, but that we were looking for

525
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 4: to confirm whether the family of life extends beyond our

526
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 4: own planet or maybe even beyond our own Solar System.

527
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 4: But back to your question, I mean the scientists would

528
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 4: answer that question by saying that we've evolved to adapt

529
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 4: to the conditions that we see around us here on Earth,

530
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 4: and that's why this is a comfortable environment for us,

531
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 4: but that other life forms may find other environments comfortable.

532
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 4: But I'm not so sure that life. Yeah, it's very

533
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 4: difficult to say what life beyond Earth could do because

534
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 4: we don't know anything about it at the moment. We

535
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 4: can only talk about terrestrial life and how it could

536
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 4: adapt to other environments. But one thing that we do

537
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 4: seem to notice about life, as our bodies are more

538
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 4: than half water, and in fact, all organisms from La

539
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 4: bacteria all the way through to giant whales are more

540
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 4: than half water. So it seems like liquid water H

541
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 4: two is a very special substance that plays a critical

542
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: role in life as we know it anyway, and then.

543
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: You're taking us through the Solar system.

544
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 4: Makes a lot of sense, like mercury is too hot

545
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: to contain any even ice on its surface, getting bombarded

546
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: constantly by the energy coming.

547
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: From the sun. Venus also super hot, as you've.

548
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 4: Said, because of it's really dense atmosphere, and what we

549
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 4: know about proteins is that they break down at these

550
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 4: kinds of temperatures. So unless there's a new kind of

551
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 4: structure that houses life, the proteins that we know of

552
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 4: wouldn't do well at these kind of extreme higher temperatures.

553
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 4: So then we get to Earth, and it's the only

554
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: planet we know of that is covered by liquid water

555
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 4: on its surface. So you know, maybe the cod water

556
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 4: came first and the life emerged from it, or maybe

557
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 4: life requires liquid water, and then our planet is at

558
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: the perfect distance from the Sun to maintain this liquid water.

559
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 4: But excitingly, there may be liquid water under the surface

560
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 4: on Mars, and we certainly do believe there is liquid

561
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 4: water under the icy crusts of some of the moons

562
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 4: of Satin and Jupiter. So if we are looking for

563
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 4: life as we know it, then these might be good

564
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 4: places to start. But we haven't really looked below the

565
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: surface on Mars more than about thirty centimeters, and we

566
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: have not yet landed on the surface of any of

567
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 4: these moons, although we have collected spray that's been ejected

568
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: out of these icy crusts through fissures, and some interesting

569
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 4: molecules exist in that water, that kind of salty, briny

570
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: water that we have detected coming out of these moons.

571
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 4: So watch this space for the next generation of researchers.

572
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 4: I think it's going to get really exciting when we

573
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 4: can send probes, but perhaps also send people to go

574
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: and look at what's going on in these places and

575
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 4: see where the liquid water really is the guiding substance

576
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 4: that should guide our exploration while we look for life elsewhere.

577
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 4: But certainly we need water to survive. So that's why

578
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: we're setting up camp at the south pole of the Moon,

579
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 4: where in the permanently shadowed craters there is ice water

580
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: ice frozen there for you know, perhaps millions or even

581
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 4: billions of years that.

582
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: Hasn't seen the sunlight.

583
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 4: And that's why we go into the Luna south pole,

584
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 4: even though it's so cold below negative two hundred degrees celsius.

585
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 4: We need that water ice to survive, as as humans

586
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 4: and as perhaps the plants and other life that we

587
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 4: bring with us will also need.

588
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go to Costas on the line to us

589
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: from a Bedford view.

590
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: Costa has a question. Couster, thank you so much for

591
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: holding Good morning.

592
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 5: Good morning, good morning.

593
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 3: Yes, what is your question? Yeah, what's your question? Go ahead?

594
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 5: Yes, So, Dr Murray, we're studying this subject for many

595
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 5: years on my own, and I have two questions. I

596
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 5: have many questions, but I guess to cut it down.

597
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 5: If you can take two questions from me, it really

598
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 5: would help me, and he's struggling with us for many

599
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 5: many years. The first one is to there, what's a

600
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 5: big bang? In the first one, and the question is

601
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 5: hypathetically speaking, if there was an observer. We always use

602
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 5: the word observer in science as at reference point. There's

603
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 5: an observer at the position at some point in time

604
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: where the big bang occurred, so he wouldn't be spaced

605
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 5: because place hadn't as yet been created, but in the hyperspace.

606
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 5: Assume me that observer if he happened to be in

607
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 5: the position of where the big bang actually took place

608
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 5: right in front of him, for her, would he see

609
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 5: it and would he hit it? And would he hear it?

610
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 5: In my view, not, he wouldn't see it. I would

611
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 5: happened in front of him, and he wouldn't hear it

612
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 5: if it happened, because sound is to travel in some form,

613
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 5: and there was no ad for sound to travel. Number

614
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 5: one and number two. Light overcame into existence three hundred

615
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 5: thousands of years after the so an observer being at

616
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 5: the spot where a big bang occurred would neither see

617
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 5: it nor hear it is your correct assumption.

618
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 3: Doctor Marie. Interesting question.

619
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: Love it, Love it.

620
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 4: This is exactly how we started the conversation by saying

621
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 4: we should always keep asking questions, so in love of

622
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 4: the spirits of curiosity. There's a lot of detail I

623
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: could go into on this, but I would say in

624
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: the first couple of chapters of my book, I do

625
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 4: cover what we know and don't know about the origins

626
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 4: of the universe, and to give you the short answer,

627
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 4: there is a lot.

628
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: We don't know.

629
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: For example, over ninety percent of the universe around us

630
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: right now has been declared by the people who study

631
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: it to be unobservable. That means it's the dark energy

632
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 4: and dark matter that we believe makes up over ninety

633
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 4: percent of our universe. So while science is a powerful tool,

634
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 4: it cannot give us all the answers to all the

635
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 4: questions we have. And in fact, our current science is

636
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 4: not able to answer questions about what happened before the

637
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: Big Bang, or even like in the moments as it happened, because,

638
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 4: as you say, there was no space before the Big Bang,

639
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 4: but space time and our current understanding of physics are

640
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 4: one concept, and so space time didn't exist, and so

641
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 4: there was no time, and so asking what happened before

642
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 4: or what things were like before the Big Bang, as

643
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 4: Stephen Hawking has said, it's like asking what south of

644
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: the South Pole. So while this is a very important

645
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 4: question to be asking, the sad answer to it is

646
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 4: that our current science cannot give you a good answer

647
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 4: to that question because that person would have been looking

648
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 4: at the universe from outside, and from our current understanding,

649
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 4: we can do a lot of things, but we cannot

650
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: get outside of the universe that we're in. As far

651
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 4: back as we can see is the cosmic microwave background.

652
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 4: And this bringing me back to radio astronomy and why

653
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: we would want to put a radio telescope on the Moon.

654
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 4: Africa to Moon is a technology demonstrator to as a

655
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 4: precursor for a larger instrument that would have the capability

656
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 4: to look back in time to those very early moments

657
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 4: after the Big Bang. And this is an area of

658
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 4: science that we yet need more evidence to fully understand

659
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 4: the physics that happened in the very early stages after

660
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 4: the Big Bang. So I don't want to say science

661
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 4: will never have the answers to these questions, because many

662
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: people are working very hard to answer the questions that

663
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 4: you've asked, but in its current state, our science can

664
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 4: only take us back to you a few yeah, a

665
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 4: few hundred thousand years probably after the Big Bang and

666
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 4: what happened.

667
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: In those few hundred thousand years before.

668
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 4: Probably some Nobel prizes will come out of any work

669
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: that's done on that in the next few years with

670
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 4: the amazing new telescopes we launching the James Web, obviously

671
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 4: the Hubble and other previous previously launched telescopes, but also

672
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 4: in this exciting era for lunar radio astronomy, where the

673
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 4: instruments that we put on the Moon may hold some

674
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 4: new answers to mysteries about the early universe. So great

675
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 4: questionss that people around the world are working furiously on,

676
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: but that sadly I don't have concrete answers for you today,

677
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 4: but let's keep curious.

678
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: It's great to wonder about these things.

679
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: Doctor.

680
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: Someone might be listening to our conversation and kind of

681
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 2: thinking about, why are we I guess putting I guess time,

682
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,959
Speaker 2: you know, our best minds, resources, money, Why are we

683
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: needing to do all of this research looking at perhaps

684
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: living on a different planet or maybe even sending a

685
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: manned mission to the moon. Why is that so important?

686
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: That's so much? So we are and it's not just

687
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: you know, on this continent. They does seem to be

688
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: quite a number of countries asking this question.

689
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: Why this question?

690
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: Thanks Coags.

691
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 4: That's a great question, which I'm sure many people listening

692
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: do you have on their minds.

693
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: It's a necessary one to answer.

694
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 4: For me, it just feels like exploration is part of

695
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: our DNA, and so we will explore. But we do,

696
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 4: of course need to think about how we are using

697
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 4: our resources. But firstly, I would point out that I

698
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 4: don't think a lot of resources in great minds or

699
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 4: as many as.

700
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: Should be going into exploration.

701
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 4: And I'm talking generally about exploration now, a lot of

702
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 4: our money and research is unfortunately now being put into

703
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: commercial into research that has commercial outputs. So the resources

704
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 4: at universities and even in research institutions and so on

705
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 4: that would have previously been have gone to people doing

706
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 4: research for the sake of curiosity, asking those big questions

707
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 4: like what is life?

708
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: Where do we come from?

709
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 4: Can we build a spacecraft that goes faster than the

710
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: speed of light?

711
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 5: You know?

712
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: Sadly, the money getting allocated to answering these kind of

713
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 4: questions is getting less and less as more and more

714
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 4: our society is, you know, pivoting to profit driven activities.

715
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: And so I'm sure many of us are.

716
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 4: Fighting fighting against this profit driven world, working to it's

717
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 4: a better ethical future for our communities, working towards a more.

718
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: Equal future for our communities. But sadly, a lot of

719
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: our resources.

720
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 4: Do get put into things that can generate profit instead

721
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 4: of things that can really inspire us and help us

722
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 4: to learn more about the reality that we find ourselves in.

723
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 4: So I would say we need more investments in exploration,

724
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 4: not only space for exploration, but exploring whatever aspects of

725
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 4: life people want to explore.

726
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: Perhaps unless money.

727
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 4: Put into a predictable profit driven incremental gains.

728
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: But back to your question about you know, why.

729
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 4: Space exploration, then, amongst all the things we can explore

730
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: so important and maybe in a nutural I could say

731
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: that eventually the Sun will envelop the Earth.

732
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: This is not soon, don't worry.

733
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: I know the news has been extremely stressful. Likely the

734
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 4: Sun is not going to envelop the Earth anytime soon.

735
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 4: But in fact, if we look at the whole trajectory

736
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 4: of life on Earth, eighty percent of it is already over.

737
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 4: Life has been around on planet Earth for four billion years,

738
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 4: and in another billion years or so, the Sun will

739
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 4: get so hot that it will no longer be possible

740
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 4: to live on Earth for most life forms.

741
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: And so we've got.

742
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 4: Twenty percent of the entire possibility of the lifespan of

743
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 4: Earth on Earth left in which to become a space

744
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 4: varying species. So you might say billionaires is a long time,

745
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 4: why do we need to start now? But there are

746
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 4: other reasons why we should explore, and I think that's

747
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 4: to understand our home planet better. If we look at

748
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 4: the real constraints of living on the surface of Venus,

749
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 4: which is an incredibly difficult thing to imagine because it's

750
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 4: so hot. Living on the surface of the Moon well

751
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: easier because people have already been there and we're sending

752
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 4: a lot of technology there to understand the environment, and

753
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 4: people will indeed be living temporarily on the Moon in.

754
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: The next few years. How about Mars.

755
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 4: It's not as hot as Venus, There is liquid water,

756
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 4: There is perhaps liquid water under the surface and some

757
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 4: ice on the surf on the surface for sure that

758
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 4: we've detected that we could use. Living on Mars is

759
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 4: indeed possible, Why should we do it? And perhaps it

760
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 4: will take not going there, but watching the accounts and

761
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: the documentaries and the footage that we know will come

762
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 4: back from people living beyond Earth to really appreciate what

763
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: we have here, the liquid water, the forests, and life

764
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: that regulates the conditions here so that we can breathe

765
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 4: the air, the sun coming in it's just the right

766
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 4: amount through the atmosphere to warm us up, to give

767
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 4: us the energy and the vibrance that sustains all life

768
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: on Earth.

769
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: Perhaps we do.

770
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 4: Need to understand that the rest of the Solar System

771
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 4: is a very harsh place to appreciate, most importantly the life,

772
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 4: Like how often do we look around and appreciate all

773
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 4: the little insects, all the birds flying around, all the

774
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 4: trees growing, all the grass growing. How often do we

775
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 4: appreciate this real paradise planet that we live on, And

776
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 4: most importantly, I think, appreciate each other.

777
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: Because while on.

778
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: Earth we sometimes feel like maybe there's two much going on,

779
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 4: when we look around in space, there's really no comparison

780
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 4: to the amounts of beautiful activity that's going on here

781
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 4: on our home planet. So I think a deep sense

782
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 4: of appreciation for what we have on Earth can be

783
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 4: a byproduct of space exploration. I haven't looked into all

784
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 4: of the other technologies because I find that the less

785
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 4: interesting part. But water filtration systems, solar power, perhaps fusion

786
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 4: power technology, perhaps growing food, and confined space is smart agriculture.

787
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 4: A lot of these technologies have been seen growth because

788
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 4: of space exploration, and these are the same technologies that

789
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 4: we need to uplift and improve people's lives here on Earth.

790
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 4: And sometimes exploring beyond Earth is a great way to

791
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 4: trigger that thinking because of the massive challenges to come

792
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 4: up with solutions to the very doable solutions that we

793
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 4: can implement here on Earth.

794
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a question here on through one seven two

795
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 2: on our WHATSAP plan, and its about the role that

796
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: AI is being used currently with space exploration.

797
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 3: Is it playing a role?

798
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's a question that comes up a lot.

799
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 4: I think in twenty years time, asking do you use

800
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 4: AI will be like asking.

801
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: Someone today do you use the Internet?

802
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 4: So like, I'm a firm believer that the emergence of

803
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 4: AI first year, I don't call it AI, I would

804
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 4: call it machine learning.

805
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: It's basically just looking at all the.

806
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 4: Data that humans have produced over the past how many

807
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 4: years we've been producing data? You know, AI, as we

808
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 4: call it, is able to look through this stuff and

809
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 4: come up with the things. Nothing that AI enables today

810
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: was impossible before except the speed. I would say, So,

811
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 4: you know, call like found a counter example to this.

812
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 4: But I don't think there's anything chat GPT can do

813
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 4: that I can't do. It's just a whole lot faster,

814
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 4: or if we put our collective minds together.

815
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a graphic designer, but it's a

816
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: lot faster.

817
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 4: So I think the important question to ask ourselves when

818
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 4: we're asking how we use AI is not that it

819
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 4: should change what we're doing. No, the questions we had before,

820
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 4: the visions that we had for the future before, the

821
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 4: activities that we're engaged in before, can now just become

822
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 4: a lot easier with this tool. But I don't believe

823
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 4: we should let the tool shape what we are doing.

824
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 4: What we are doing should be trying to create a

825
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 4: positive future, trying to solve hunger, trying to make sure

826
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 4: everyone has access to kelean water, and the extent which

827
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 4: AI can help us do that is the extent to

828
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 4: which it's a useful tool. So Yeah, on space exploration.

829
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 4: We've been using machine learning algorithms for decades, since the

830
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 4: seventies to analyze the data that comes in from space

831
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 4: to make the important decisions that we make for sending

832
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 4: humans to these places, but also for doing the science

833
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 4: that we do.

834
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: Have to leave it at that.

835
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, doctor Durana Maray joining us this morning in the profile,

836
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: taking us to nine o'clock, and you lead us out

837
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 2: with this news