WEBVTT - Openline 0:00:10.490 --> 0:00:13.690 It's seven minutes after 11 o'clock and welcome to the 0:00:13.730 --> 0:00:15.970 final hour of the show. This is when we invite 0:00:15.990 --> 0:00:18.680 you to call in and talk to us about whatever 0:00:18.780 --> 0:00:22.599 is on your mind. Or perhaps you could reflect on 0:00:22.620 --> 0:00:27.200 the various conversations we've had this evening. We started off with... 0:00:28.180 --> 0:00:33.400 Medical Matters, talking to Dr. Nkateko Sangwana, an optometrist with 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:38.620 diagnostic rights. We're talking about the retina structure, function and 0:00:38.659 --> 0:00:42.030 health of your retina. In the second hour, we spoke 0:00:42.070 --> 0:00:47.610 to Lindam Nisi, Newsroom Africa reporter, talking about the resumption 0:00:47.810 --> 0:00:52.670 of the Senzomewa trial, what has happened and where are 0:00:52.729 --> 0:00:56.260 we likely to go with this case. It's been 14 0:00:56.260 --> 0:01:00.650 years or just... just beyond 14 years that this trial 0:01:00.690 --> 0:01:04.520 has been going on, will there be closure for the 0:01:04.580 --> 0:01:14.020 family of the former Bafana Bafana captain, Senzo Mayowa, and. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.920 Those perhaps who are innocent in this whole debacle? 0:01:22.700 --> 0:01:27.680 We then spoke to Professor Dirk Kotsa, professor at. 0:01:27.900 --> 0:01:30.380 UNISA, professor of political science at UNISA. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.190 And we were talking about where the ANC is going, 0:01:34.350 --> 0:01:40.530 given all of the difficulties, internal difficulties it faces. And then, 0:01:40.550 --> 0:01:43.010 of course, the final conversation I've just had now with 0:01:44.090 --> 0:01:48.970 Donovan Williams, international relations analyst, as we looked at the UN, 0:01:49.550 --> 0:01:53.660 its relevance, its The fact that we are about to 0:01:53.700 --> 0:01:57.900 see a change in leadership as Antonio Guterres approaches the 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.760 end of his tenure as United Nations Secretary General. 0:02:01.780 --> 0:02:04.940 My apologies. 0:02:09.850 --> 0:02:13.540 In the last 24 hours, this is What's Happened in 0:02:13.620 --> 0:02:14.340 Your World. 0:02:14.380 --> 0:02:18.500 Like many villages in Limpopo, households in Pogwane have no 0:02:18.580 --> 0:02:23.330 running water and rely on communal taps located outside their homes. 0:02:23.650 --> 0:02:27.369 Khalas Matonsi is a father. whose home is right next 0:02:27.410 --> 0:02:31.130 to the nearest communal tap. But dry and rusty, water 0:02:31.190 --> 0:02:33.770 has not flowed from the tap in over a decade. 0:02:34.130 --> 0:02:36.290 And you see that there is a lot of dirt here. 0:02:36.830 --> 0:02:42.110 The cows drink here. People bust here. Sometimes children used 0:02:42.169 --> 0:02:44.670 to urinate there. 0:02:44.830 --> 0:02:44.950 EWN. 0:02:45.530 --> 0:02:46.109 In touch. 0:02:46.690 --> 0:02:47.170 In tune. 0:02:47.730 --> 0:02:54.589 And independent. The Midday Report. Weekdays. 12 to 1. So 0:02:54.630 --> 0:02:56.510 are you going to go ahead now and sell this Ferrari? 0:02:56.669 --> 0:02:56.929 Yes. 0:02:57.230 --> 0:02:59.410 The Ferrari ought to be sold for no less than 0:02:59.410 --> 0:03:00.790 9.5 million rand. 0:03:00.870 --> 0:03:02.430 I was about to ask how much I need to 0:03:02.470 --> 0:03:02.750 buy it. 0:03:02.870 --> 0:03:05.350 You need to get this 9.5 or upwards. The code 0:03:05.389 --> 0:03:07.389 is clear that it should not be sold below 9.5 0:03:07.389 --> 0:03:08.550 million rand. 0:03:08.930 --> 0:03:09.530 Cool, we'll talk. 0:03:09.730 --> 0:03:10.950 We'll make a plan, you and me. 0:03:11.230 --> 0:03:12.010 Not a chance. 0:03:12.010 --> 0:03:23.720 11 minutes after 11 o'clock my apologies for that gremlin 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:25.280 in the throat folks yeah so and we had. 0:03:25.220 --> 0:03:26.840 The conversation just in. 0:03:26.780 --> 0:03:30.760 The previous hour with Donovan Williams about the. 0:03:50.150 --> 0:03:52.970 The UN, and I'm ready to take your calls in 0:03:53.030 --> 0:03:55.830 as far as that one is concerned. Lots of questions 0:03:56.950 --> 0:04:01.730 about the future of the UN. And my question remains 0:04:02.090 --> 0:04:12.320 around the future of nation states. The idea of countries 0:04:12.500 --> 0:04:15.700 looks to me like it's a threatened idea. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:16.539 Idea of a. 0:04:20.050 --> 0:04:29.410 Country called Australia, South Africa, Uganda, Burkina Faso, all of 0:04:29.510 --> 0:04:40.630 those ideas seem to be under threat as the UN 0:04:41.010 --> 0:04:48.480 idea seems to be a failed idea. Why do I 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:53.390 say so? I say so because The recognition of statehood 0:04:55.810 --> 0:05:02.679 depends on countries recognizing that, that this is a country, 0:05:02.700 --> 0:05:07.099 it's a sovereign country and has its own laws and 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.600 so forth. I'm suggesting to you that that idea is fast. 0:05:13.140 --> 0:05:13.760 Dissipating. 0:05:13.860 --> 0:05:19.060 The idea of the country, the nation state is dying 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:27.680 and that that is being slowly privatized. And that privatization 0:05:27.740 --> 0:05:32.960 process is going to gain speed as we start to 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:39.720 develop greater dependence on private organizations. That alliances that are 0:05:39.900 --> 0:05:48.770 commercial rather than political are going to override, surpass, the 0:05:48.890 --> 0:05:54.420 effectiveness and impact of the idea of the state, of 0:05:54.440 --> 0:06:01.180 a country. And that the idea of democracy is going 0:06:01.220 --> 0:06:08.640 to disappear. That the will of the people of a 0:06:08.690 --> 0:06:13.170 particular country is going to be reflected in the governance 0:06:13.210 --> 0:06:15.390 of that country, I argue, is going to disappear. 0:06:19.710 --> 0:06:21.430 We watch how. 0:06:24.990 --> 0:06:32.080 Organizations that have no political power but have other forms. 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:32.860 Of power. 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:42.539 Are able to ignore and usurp influence beyond the political power. 0:06:48.010 --> 0:06:52.900 If you look at the rise of certain organizations here 0:06:52.980 --> 0:06:58.400 in South Africa over the last 15 years, organizations such 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:06.969 as AfriForum, Solidarity, these organizations have no political influence in 0:07:07.070 --> 0:07:10.990 the democratic sense. But I can argue that they have 0:07:11.070 --> 0:07:19.270 more power than many political parties because of their financial power, 0:07:20.670 --> 0:07:22.310 and then litigation power. 0:07:22.690 --> 0:07:22.910 True. 0:07:24.610 --> 0:07:29.250 So the idea of democracy is starting to be a 0:07:29.290 --> 0:07:37.330 very weak thing and that you can usurp power using 0:07:37.830 --> 0:07:43.840 other ways of influencing, I suppose, the politics of the country. 0:07:43.980 --> 0:07:48.140 No one can deny the influence of an AfriForum and 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:53.090 a solidarity in present-day South African politics, even though they 0:07:53.110 --> 0:08:01.740 have zero political influence in terms of democratic power. I'm 0:08:01.770 --> 0:08:05.500 saying that that is going to be something that we're 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.940 going to see more of, particularly with tech companies. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.790 You will see that companies.... 0:08:15.060 --> 0:08:19.470 Tech companies, maybe companies such as BlackRock, for example, that 0:08:19.510 --> 0:08:27.630 are really wielding heavy influence and can ultimately influence the 0:08:27.650 --> 0:08:33.870 political space. I'm suggesting to you that we are moving 0:08:33.910 --> 0:08:36.770 very closely, if we're not there already, to a point 0:08:36.850 --> 0:08:45.520 where political power is becoming obsolete. And so it's the 0:08:45.580 --> 0:08:48.620 power of the pocket rather than the power of the people. 0:08:50.780 --> 0:08:54.440 That is going to be more relevant going forward. Those 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:59.440 that have the means, the power of the pocket, will 0:08:59.500 --> 0:09:01.810 begin to wield more power than. 0:09:04.350 --> 0:09:07.069 Those who have or wield the power of the people. 0:09:07.890 --> 0:09:09.230 In other words, the numbers. 0:09:09.750 --> 0:09:14.870 And I'm suggesting to you that we are watching in 0:09:14.950 --> 0:09:16.850 real time, the death of democracy. 0:09:19.929 --> 0:09:23.630 No more silence. No more excuses. 0:09:24.500 --> 0:09:25.740 Enough is enough. 0:09:25.740 --> 0:09:33.260 702 says stop gender-based violence. 0:09:33.660 --> 0:09:37.040 And that's why it's going to be even more critical 0:09:38.100 --> 0:09:41.170 that we are able to talk to each other. 0:09:41.750 --> 0:09:41.870 Mm-hmm. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.700 Because these two ideas will clash. 0:09:47.420 --> 0:09:47.620 True. 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.170 A big conversation that took place today and my colleague 0:09:54.630 --> 0:09:57.750 Clement Mayatella discussed it at length and I'll play a 0:09:57.809 --> 0:10:02.429 clip of that conversation. or at least the initiation of 0:10:02.470 --> 0:10:10.150 that conversation, around the Department of Home Affairs and the 0:10:10.970 --> 0:10:17.640 implementation of policies that flow from a constitutional court decision 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.960 around asylum seekers. I'm going to play you the clip 0:10:21.980 --> 0:10:24.020 and then invite you to call in and tell me 0:10:24.059 --> 0:10:27.450 what your thoughts are. But what I'm suggesting to you 0:10:27.530 --> 0:10:33.730 is that there seems to me to be a good 0:10:33.770 --> 0:10:41.190 example of the fact that this idea that the people govern, 0:10:41.330 --> 0:10:45.190 in other words, democracy by numbers, I'm saying to you 0:10:45.210 --> 0:10:49.820 that that is disappearing. I'm saying to you that those 0:10:49.860 --> 0:10:54.130 that have the power will be able to run the country, 0:10:54.309 --> 0:10:57.390 countries by the power to litigate. If they have the 0:10:57.500 --> 0:11:01.680 power to get the lawyers that can go and speak 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:07.480 at the constitutional court, they can overturn any idea that 0:11:07.540 --> 0:11:11.679 the so-called numbers of the people, the democratic principle, will 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.219 be completely overridden. 0:11:12.860 --> 0:11:19.260 By that reality, in my opinion. 411-883-0702, listen to this. 0:11:22.100 --> 0:11:25.600 There's something that a number of people are up in 0:11:25.820 --> 0:11:29.660 arms about, right? There's been a significant development in South 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.030 Africa's asylum system, and it's already sparked a heated reaction, 0:11:34.130 --> 0:11:39.150 especially online. So there's a Home Affairs communique signed by 0:11:39.190 --> 0:11:43.550 the Deputy Director General Tulani Mavuso, which instructs all refugee 0:11:43.590 --> 0:11:48.959 reception officers to immediately receive anyone who reports in person 0:11:49.740 --> 0:11:54.240 and indicates that they want to apply for asylum. That 0:11:54.300 --> 0:11:59.940 includes people who may have entered the country unlawfully, so yes, illegally, 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:05.439 entered somewhere other than a port of entry, don't have 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.620 a visa, or they didn't report to a refugee reception 0:12:09.740 --> 0:12:14.780 office within five days of entering South Africa. And if 0:12:14.830 --> 0:12:18.959 you remember, there was a constitutional court judgment which found 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.480 several provisions of the Refugee Act unconstitutional and invalid. So 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.459 this instruction from Home Affairs seems to follow that Constitutional 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.660 Court judgment. So what happened after Home Affairs issued this communique? 0:12:32.500 --> 0:12:37.470 Over the weekend, a United Nations, Southern Africa, shared the 0:12:37.490 --> 0:12:40.830 development on its social media platforms, welcoming the move and 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:47.679 saying that refugee centers would begin accepting applications again this morning. Interestingly, though, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.780 the post was subsequently deleted after it triggered strong reaction 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.800 from South Africans, and there were questions being asked about 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.680 what exactly this means for immigration control. Who will be 0:12:58.740 --> 0:13:02.840 allowed to apply, and what are the implications for the country? 0:13:03.740 --> 0:13:07.219 So what exactly is Home Affairs changing here, and what 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.750 is it not changing? Joining us on the line is 0:13:10.850 --> 0:13:14.990 Tulani Mavuso, who is the Deputy Director General for Operations 0:13:15.170 --> 0:13:15.929 at Home Affairs. 0:13:17.190 --> 0:13:20.349 And that was my colleague Clement Banyatela broaching the subject 0:13:20.510 --> 0:13:25.390 of the new policies as directed by the Constitutional Court 0:13:25.490 --> 0:13:36.220 of not prohibiting anybody who has decided to apply for asylum, 0:13:36.380 --> 0:13:38.780 even those who have entered the country illegally. 0:13:40.580 --> 0:13:43.140 My thoughts to you is, what does that mean to you? 0:13:47.660 --> 0:13:48.400 The idea of. 0:13:48.429 --> 0:13:55.670 Now, let me take some calls. Let me speak to 0:13:55.730 --> 0:13:56.730 Charlie in Florida. 0:13:56.770 --> 0:13:57.210 Um, Charlie? 0:13:59.190 --> 0:13:59.790 Hey, Charlie. 0:13:59.870 --> 0:14:00.830 How are you? 0:14:00.929 --> 0:14:02.860 I'm very well, Um Charlie. What's on your mind? 0:14:04.340 --> 0:14:06.240 Hi, Abrahobs. 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.640 After celebrating a lovely birthday. 0:14:11.660 --> 0:14:15.280 Hey, by the way, happy belated birthday to you, Um Charlie. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:24.560 Thank you, Abrahobs. Thank you, Brahms. You know, Brahms, when 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:35.410 I look back at when I was a young, young. 0:14:35.230 --> 0:14:40.330 Of Pudi, again, I did that young art, with the 0:14:40.510 --> 0:14:45.270 hand set up at your belly button, with the group 0:14:45.350 --> 0:14:46.250 laugh and. 0:14:46.130 --> 0:14:50.200 Big group laugh. Maybe extension pocket. 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.420 Sideways pocket, egg. 0:14:58.140 --> 0:15:05.410 Those days, things worked. You know, I just watched a 0:15:05.470 --> 0:15:08.550 couple clips from the. 0:15:08.490 --> 0:15:09.410 Past as well. 0:15:10.310 --> 0:15:18.840 But what is most disturbing and disgusting Is this water. 0:15:18.460 --> 0:15:26.710 Story in there somewhere in Lumpopo? 30 years later, there 0:15:26.810 --> 0:15:32.390 are water pipes, but water is not running out of 0:15:32.450 --> 0:15:43.560 those pipes. So now we ask, where was that water. 0:15:43.260 --> 0:15:48.390 Project also somewhere there in Lumpopo? that was supposed to 0:15:48.510 --> 0:15:49.010 cost a. 0:15:49.030 --> 0:15:52.790 Couple of hundred million that escalated to three billion. 0:15:56.030 --> 0:15:59.150 There was a couple of years ago that that story 0:15:59.210 --> 0:16:05.930 came out. And I'm sure this area is also part 0:16:06.010 --> 0:16:13.240 of it. You know, when listening to that story this morning, 0:16:14.260 --> 0:16:26.270 I became so frustrated and angry that does this government 0:16:26.490 --> 0:16:34.210 really care about the people? It is supposed to be serving. 0:16:39.740 --> 0:16:44.920 Then we go to guys like Aikumalo and what was 0:16:45.020 --> 0:16:51.970 that other platform, TikTok is a TikTok or something, that 0:16:53.330 --> 0:16:56.830 gutful and all that. And you listen to these. 0:16:57.450 --> 0:17:08.629 Narratives and they all go around. The apartheid government was. 0:17:08.510 --> 0:17:15.600 Cruel, but on the other end, it cared. for the people. 0:17:15.619 --> 0:17:20.100 It delivered. It's service delivery and all those little. 0:17:21.980 --> 0:17:22.360 Things. 0:17:22.420 --> 0:17:28.200 The cities were clean. There was water. There was electricity. 0:17:28.780 --> 0:17:34.240 The hospitals worked. The schools had an adequate education system. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.460 The police, there was law and order. And when you 0:17:37.660 --> 0:17:48.170 take all these things into through the medulla oblongata Then 0:17:48.190 --> 0:17:58.129 you ask yourself, is this what democracy means? 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:06.300 And now you say, you have the discussion about privatization 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:12.120 and state-owned and who's going to be. 0:18:12.060 --> 0:18:12.899 Calling the shots. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:20.859 I think this is all by design. That's my thoughts. 0:18:22.460 --> 0:18:34.450 If you have incompetent governance, that, you know, there's so 0:18:34.470 --> 0:18:37.149 many things going through my head. The other day, a 0:18:37.190 --> 0:18:39.270 couple of weeks ago, I think it was with the 0:18:39.330 --> 0:18:43.990 same professor you spoke to today. And I listened to 0:18:44.060 --> 0:18:52.760 a podcast where you were saying that The current government 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:59.420 is more about extraction than governance. And it's like, wait 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:00.500 a minute. Yeah, man. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:04.740 No, no. 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.419 I'm going to let you go there because I've got 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:15.600 to take some more calls. But, yeah. Have we been 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:24.310 living under an illusion? thinking that we are somehow a 0:19:24.390 --> 0:19:28.490 country that is governed by the will of the people. 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:39.780 When at a stroke of a pen, a constitutional court, 0:19:39.820 --> 0:19:47.550 depending on who is the most influential and charismatic of 0:19:47.590 --> 0:19:54.340 the judges in that constitutional court, can simply change legislation 0:19:54.680 --> 0:20:03.609 by simply saying, well, this is unconstitutional. Are we still 0:20:03.750 --> 0:20:11.190 in this idea of a democracy? Or has the constitutional 0:20:11.450 --> 0:20:14.970 side of the constitutional democracy become stronger than the democracy 0:20:15.010 --> 0:20:17.689 side of the constitutional democracy? I'd be interested to hear 0:20:17.710 --> 0:20:21.590 your thoughts about that. Let me speak to Sakile Ndopsinville Soweto. 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.859 Man has advanced to a point where he almost extinct himself. 0:20:31.380 --> 0:20:40.210 Man can seldom handle power. He often abuses it. He 0:20:40.290 --> 0:20:51.060 retreats and misdirects it. There's nothing that flourishes in this 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:57.990 world today than apparition. Good evening, Sir E. 0:20:58.050 --> 0:20:58.570 Masango. 0:20:58.770 --> 0:21:00.350 Good evening to you, Sakine. 0:21:01.609 --> 0:21:09.959 I wanted to introduce myself properly because philosophically, You don't 0:21:09.980 --> 0:21:17.629 just enter the space without borrowing the words that have 0:21:17.650 --> 0:21:21.430 been said by the wisdom of the past, which we 0:21:22.369 --> 0:21:27.649 have set aside. Because these answers are laying there in 0:21:27.710 --> 0:21:32.740 the textbooks for thousands of years. And then we are 0:21:32.780 --> 0:21:36.260 busy searching for answers when we have been given answers. 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.900 you know, for free. We just need to apply them. 0:21:41.780 --> 0:21:48.399 So I'm talking about operation, probably. You know, operation is 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:56.590 a departure from rational thought, from Latin operare. In today's meaning, 0:21:56.730 --> 0:22:02.070 it means to get life. You are trying to get 0:22:02.109 --> 0:22:05.230 to a point, but you are not arriving at that 0:22:05.270 --> 0:22:11.459 particular point. I don't want us to be scholarly and 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.980 talk about ways, but we have to have meaning and 0:22:15.220 --> 0:22:21.980 give answers. You know, when we talk about answers, we 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:26.040 need to prevent problems from going into effect in. 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:26.660 The first place. 0:22:26.810 --> 0:22:32.010 That's what engineering says. So I don't want to spend 0:22:32.050 --> 0:22:36.090 my time talking about politics. And then, you know, I'm 0:22:36.130 --> 0:22:42.989 not trying to avoid, you know, but I prefer to 0:22:43.090 --> 0:22:49.690 spend more time on the solutions. Look, I just want 0:22:49.730 --> 0:22:51.879 to give you just a short space because I don't know, 0:22:51.890 --> 0:22:54.420 we don't have time before I dive in on what 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:59.239 I need to say and go. I listen more. It's 0:22:59.300 --> 0:23:02.540 not nice to call because it's more nicer to listen. 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.780 I was listening all this time. And then, you know, 0:23:06.859 --> 0:23:10.020 on Clement Maniachela's show, I think on the 10th of August, 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:16.850 or was it the 10th of September, there was this 0:23:17.010 --> 0:23:22.610 interview around 9 o'clock in the morning with Leanne Manners. 0:23:23.690 --> 0:23:27.159 I respect her as much as I respect you. I 0:23:27.220 --> 0:23:31.680 just wish to say that I did call in to 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:37.209 the producer to correct the dates that they have been given. 0:23:38.910 --> 0:23:44.230 You know, because Chairman Manachara said, you know, probably Leanne 0:23:44.310 --> 0:23:46.609 Manas has been on the radio for, I mean, on 0:23:46.630 --> 0:23:50.869 the media for about 23 years ago. So I said 0:23:50.950 --> 0:23:55.950 that to the, you know, to the producer that can 0:23:56.130 --> 0:23:59.120 I just give you the correct dates because I still 0:23:59.140 --> 0:24:05.470 have them on my diary. It was on the 3rd 0:24:05.530 --> 0:24:12.949 of September, 1999, when Morning Life was launched. I was there. 0:24:14.250 --> 0:24:19.210 You know, I started on the 25th of July, 1999. 0:24:19.210 --> 0:24:23.030 So all I'm trying to say is sometimes I say 0:24:23.350 --> 0:24:28.340 South Africans don't keep records. And sometimes they need to 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:32.820 start from us before they can go to other countries 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:33.900 to look for records. 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:35.840 Because some of us, we do have them. 0:24:38.220 --> 0:24:40.780 So that's one thing I want to say. But let 0:24:40.820 --> 0:24:43.510 me just go on into what I wish to say 0:24:43.660 --> 0:24:49.310 and then leave the platform. But hopefully, once upon a time, 0:24:49.330 --> 0:24:54.010 a great gentleman of Mount Gettysburg said, men will never 0:24:54.070 --> 0:24:57.240 know truth. since truth is beyond the realm of human 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:00.699 understanding and anything worth knowing is beyond the realm of 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:05.100 human understanding. So I'm understanding beyond the realm of human understanding. 0:25:05.700 --> 0:25:11.310 So you better listen because you are not, I'm not human, 0:25:11.390 --> 0:25:19.450 but you are. So I'm introducing the last tech that 0:25:19.930 --> 0:25:26.210 has not been known for more than 10,000 years. You see, 0:25:26.230 --> 0:25:37.689 I'm not lecturing. You see what happened is we have 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:45.420 been dodging the reality because we don't confront the reality 0:25:45.500 --> 0:25:51.520 that people don't know what needs to be resolved or 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:54.389 what they are looking at. And then that's why I'm 0:25:54.430 --> 0:25:59.560 talking of reparation, because what is the essence of the 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:04.619 matter is that we expect people who are blind to 0:26:04.660 --> 0:26:08.880 lead us. When they don't themselves, you know, they cannot 0:26:08.940 --> 0:26:13.310 be able to lead themselves. So it's just a matter 0:26:13.350 --> 0:26:16.690 of wasting time, to be honest with you. I'm just 0:26:17.070 --> 0:26:20.970 calling this because when you look at. 0:26:23.090 --> 0:26:28.670 When you look at the solutions that, you know, we 0:26:28.730 --> 0:26:32.490 need as a people or in the country or in 0:26:32.510 --> 0:26:38.140 the way the Africa Party is because we don't have 0:26:38.340 --> 0:26:45.359 people who have this research, for example, that have made, 0:26:45.660 --> 0:26:49.710 let's say, the pure research or have studied the philosophy. 0:26:49.730 --> 0:26:49.830 Yeah. 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:55.609 And we don't trust in what we have been, what 0:26:55.630 --> 0:27:01.290 we have developed as a people. You can't come out, 0:27:01.310 --> 0:27:04.469 that's why I made this example, for example, I'm not 0:27:04.510 --> 0:27:09.660 criticizing the media or something, but where you can say, 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:14.900 as Sakila said, no, I have the stable data for this. 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:21.710 You cannot be entrusted, but... We've had people there who 0:27:21.770 --> 0:27:26.230 have no tradition, who cannot be even, they can't come 0:27:26.330 --> 0:27:29.130 up to the radio and say, no, I've been to 0:27:29.350 --> 0:27:34.270 Telcom after SAPC. The reason why I would say I've 0:27:34.330 --> 0:27:40.570 worked for so many companies is because I have researched 0:27:41.450 --> 0:27:45.630 on how people behave, what is the nature of the 0:27:45.670 --> 0:27:48.980 organization and how the country is behaving. 0:27:49.580 --> 0:27:51.919 Sakile, let me stop you there. Thanks very much for 0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.220 your call. What do you make of what Sakile has 0:27:54.260 --> 0:27:54.600 to say? 0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:57.980 Give me a call. Michael is in Greenside. Hi, Michael. 0:27:59.119 --> 0:28:03.810 Hey, Aubrey. I definitely kind of hear what the caller 0:28:03.850 --> 0:28:07.390 before just said now. I think as a country, we 0:28:07.410 --> 0:28:10.409 definitely have to focus on the solutions. We have to 0:28:10.450 --> 0:28:15.060 focus on what is going to be the things that 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:17.100 we need to focus on, what is that going to 0:28:17.140 --> 0:28:19.859 be for us to understand so we can move forward. 0:28:20.820 --> 0:28:23.820 I'm actually calling because I was really kind of triggered 0:28:23.859 --> 0:28:27.580 by the caller before. And as a black person who, 0:28:27.820 --> 0:28:31.740 my heritage falls under colored in Tswana and Tsutu. And 0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:34.230 growing up in Soweto, I mean, I've had many colored 0:28:34.330 --> 0:28:37.830 family members who I've also kind of walked away from, 0:28:38.490 --> 0:28:43.790 where they've said very dismissive things kind of toxic things 0:28:43.870 --> 0:28:47.310 like apartheid used to be back in the day, you know, 0:28:47.450 --> 0:28:51.060 things used to work. And I can hold space for 0:28:51.130 --> 0:28:54.900 understanding that. But at the same time, the person saying 0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:57.560 that also doesn't hold space for the fact that that 0:28:57.620 --> 0:29:00.440 came at a cost. And we're still paying that price 0:29:00.460 --> 0:29:05.300 to this day. We've got alcoholism, we've got things to 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:09.200 do with our personal stuff is black people. We dislike ourselves. 0:29:09.260 --> 0:29:12.040 We see our other neighbors. We're fighting with our neighbors 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:16.000 when we should be looking at the landlord. So the 0:29:16.120 --> 0:29:18.290 idea that things used to work back in the day 0:29:18.350 --> 0:29:20.250 that I can hold space for that. But at the 0:29:20.290 --> 0:29:24.950 same time, I was just saying, you would never find 0:29:25.010 --> 0:29:28.810 a German or Jewish person saying anything about how well 0:29:28.870 --> 0:29:32.210 Germany used to work during the Holocaust. They've got so 0:29:32.250 --> 0:29:34.900 much respect for their pain. And it's actually kind of 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:39.850 sad when our own people can't understand that the land 0:29:40.610 --> 0:29:44.490 that was colonized was created by a particular body that 0:29:44.620 --> 0:29:48.320 made sure that we all are a part. That's why 0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:52.620 apartheid is a word. And we are a part. But 0:29:52.660 --> 0:29:55.360 the country also had a rule book. That rule book 0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:58.110 wasn't given to us. We were given the country to 0:29:58.150 --> 0:30:00.050 look after and say, sure, use the country, take it. 0:30:00.870 --> 0:30:03.050 But we didn't get the rule books. And we're all 0:30:03.090 --> 0:30:06.270 trying to figure this out. And for us as a 0:30:06.290 --> 0:30:08.970 country to move forward, the solution is for us to 0:30:09.010 --> 0:30:12.820 kind of look at ourselves and also find the solutions 0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:13.480 through that. 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:14.580 But it's not going. 0:30:14.460 --> 0:30:17.560 To happen with us looking at the past saying this 0:30:17.580 --> 0:30:21.480 was also really magical when it actually wasn't. Because no one, 0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:24.180 I would never catch any Jewish person, any of my 0:30:24.220 --> 0:30:28.580 Jewish friends saying anything about how great Germany was back 0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:30.660 in the day. So I just wanted to kind of 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:35.020 share that because that was quite triggering, hearing someone saying 0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:37.200 back in the day things used to work. And that's great, 0:30:37.780 --> 0:30:41.350 but that came at a cost. And that cost is 0:30:41.410 --> 0:30:43.830 what we are still paying for to this day. The 0:30:43.870 --> 0:30:47.370 fact that our government is dealing with corruption and there's 0:30:47.430 --> 0:30:51.720 a lot of things broken in our country isn't because 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.860 of us as Black people alone. It's because we were 0:30:55.320 --> 0:30:59.080 infiltrated in our minds and our emotions. And the Truth 0:30:59.100 --> 0:31:04.030 Commission wasn't enough. A mother was told how her children 0:31:04.070 --> 0:31:06.070 got killed, and then she was told to move on 0:31:06.090 --> 0:31:09.350 with her life and look after her children. There was 0:31:09.410 --> 0:31:12.720 no emotional... support. There was none of that. We just 0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:15.060 had to carry on as if everything was okay. So 0:31:15.540 --> 0:31:17.800 I just wanted to point that out. But the show 0:31:17.860 --> 0:31:19.580 is really great. And thank you so much for your, 0:31:20.820 --> 0:31:22.000 for your topic tonight, Obi. 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:24.900 Michael in Greenside, much appreciated. 0:31:25.680 --> 0:31:26.020 Yeah. 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:37.010 I think one of the biggest myths we tend to 0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:53.870 is that white people are homogenous. Black people are homogenous. 0:31:58.590 --> 0:32:06.310 Africans are homogenous. Europeans are homogenous. I think as we 0:32:08.030 --> 0:32:13.910 talk about different things, we begin to realize that Homogeneity 0:32:18.890 --> 0:32:20.150 is not always the. 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:25.760 Truth of the situation. 0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:34.280 That amongst us as black people, in our different ethnic groups, 0:32:37.570 --> 0:32:48.120