Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven
Speaker 1: oh two.
Speaker 2: Let's walk little.
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Critis is brought to you
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Speaker 3: Good evening, Welcome to the program. Well it may be
Speaker 3: a Friday, but a lot going on in our space.
Speaker 3: This evening has still some interesting questions being asked. I
Speaker 3: think about Andrew Whitfield and his sacking as Deputy DTRC
Speaker 3: Minister by President Sirama Porter. There was a presidential statement
Speaker 3: on that today, but on the JC I think the
Speaker 3: big action really in the financial space. List SOAKA technologies
Speaker 3: are buying Banks zero one point zero nine billion round
Speaker 3: the price tag extraordinary really because Bank zero was only
Speaker 3: formed in twenty eighteen. Does just show you how quickly
Speaker 3: the fintech space is moving where value comes from. And
Speaker 3: of course Michael jordanas I under, is still going to
Speaker 3: play an important role in the sort of new entity
Speaker 3: or the newly bought entity let me call it that.
Speaker 3: He's been someone who we've been reporting on for many years.
Speaker 3: When he was FNB, when he was CEO at FNB,
Speaker 3: someone who rarely does know how to make things happens
Speaker 3: very very interesting. Be one of those people that that
Speaker 3: you'll see books written about in the next couple of years.
Speaker 3: Other are, of course, conversations underway at the moment, and
Speaker 3: the US markets heading for record highs. You heard from
Speaker 3: Graham Kernel last night. He suspects that, in fact, risk
Speaker 3: has not been properly factored in if you consider all
Speaker 3: the variables that we're seeing at the moment. Well, we'll
Speaker 3: ask as we lack him Gune if he agrees with
Speaker 3: that in a couple of moments. More to come about
Speaker 3: rare earths as well. Could hear from you this evening?
Speaker 3: Oh double one double A three oh seven O two
Speaker 3: two one four four six O five six seven and
Speaker 3: voice notes tonight on seven two seven oh two one
Speaker 3: seven oh two.
Speaker 1: The Lonely Show with Stephen krudis live on ninety two
Speaker 1: point seven and one oh six FM, streaming on the
Speaker 1: Prime Media Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.
Speaker 3: Well confirmation today, Banks zero is being bought by a
Speaker 3: Lasaka Technologies. Banks zero, famous for offering account on some
Speaker 3: transactions at no cost. The Psycher Technologies provides fintech services
Speaker 3: for people it describes as underserved off a gold Stucks,
Speaker 3: the founder of Worldwide works off a good evening. There's
Speaker 3: so many interesting features to this. But Banks zero formed
Speaker 3: just seven years ago, now worth a billion RAN. The
Speaker 3: sector really is moving very quickly.
Speaker 4: Good evening, Stephen, for sure. The acquisition is such a landmark.
Speaker 4: It's you could call it a rand unicorn, a unicorn
Speaker 4: being a come here as value or site of this value.
Speaker 4: That a billion dollars but a billion RAN isn't too shabby,
Speaker 4: but it's also sign of the times. And when you
Speaker 4: look at a banquet, no physical branches and a zero
Speaker 4: fee model, you realize that innovation is not about what's
Speaker 4: in the building anymore. It's about the technology, but it's
Speaker 4: also about the data that you're able to put together,
Speaker 4: and ultimately it's about trust. And I guess you needed
Speaker 4: something about Michael. You're dan to create that level of
Speaker 4: trust would convince people to join the bank.
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a time when banking was a
Speaker 3: bit boring. You just had a couple of accounts. You
Speaker 3: might have a current account of mortgage, a credit card.
Speaker 3: Now there's so many more services. I mean, this is
Speaker 3: one aspect of our lives that has changed within the
Speaker 3: last twenty years incredibly quickly.
Speaker 4: It's astonishing because your county is no longer something at
Speaker 4: the bank managers. It's stuck an ecosystem almost and your
Speaker 4: phone is your branch, and it's also your bank manager.
Speaker 4: It's also your budgeting coach, and ultimately it is also
Speaker 4: your AI assistant. That sounds going to be playing art
Speaker 4: in the next few years where your bank account actually
Speaker 4: tells you what to do with it or how to
Speaker 4: manage it. So we're going to see banking move from
Speaker 4: being something that people do to something that adapts to them.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, what does the bank of the future
Speaker 3: look like? Does it look more I mean, Telly Lesaka
Speaker 3: believes it looks more like banks here than anything else.
Speaker 4: Some extent I would tend to agree. But there's certain
Speaker 4: things that are unique about Bank zero, and one of
Speaker 4: them is that they were able to leverage their own capital.
Speaker 4: They didn't have to bring in institutional or private equity,
Speaker 4: and they didn't pay themselves in terms of the founders
Speaker 4: of the bank for the eight years of creating and
Speaker 4: building the bank. So that's the one side. The other
Speaker 4: side is that there's no legacy technology. I was actually
Speaker 4: chatting with Michael earlier today and he says, the legacy
Speaker 4: business model is something that they were able to escape
Speaker 4: so they could make banking free yet still become a
Speaker 4: profitable business. So that's where there are now. But in
Speaker 4: the next five years, I think you're going to see
Speaker 4: changes in banking that will make the last ten look slow.
Speaker 4: AI is obviously going to play a major role in that,
Speaker 4: but we're moving into an era of hyper personalized finance,
Speaker 4: and that means that every single individual will have a
Speaker 4: different experience of their bank account.
Speaker 3: So I mean hyper personalized finance. AI presumably still done
Speaker 3: on a phone or a device very like it, But
Speaker 3: I mean I would say, how much more can humans
Speaker 3: do with money? But golly, probably quite a lot more.
Speaker 4: Well. One of the things that well also see changing
Speaker 4: is a shift in the traditional roles of banks. In
Speaker 4: the past, the bank competed with the bank, and a
Speaker 4: lot of people are still making the mistake of thinking
Speaker 4: that bank zuro is competing with other banks. Are they not?
Speaker 4: They see a data driven future where they're competing with
Speaker 4: anyone who has a lot of customer data. So banks
Speaker 4: have to understand that they're competing with the retailers, they're
Speaker 4: competing with telcos with the super upset are now emerging
Speaker 4: from all the telecoms operators. So for consumers, especially those
Speaker 4: who have been underserved in the past, this is really
Speaker 4: a true formation. It means that if you have a phone,
Speaker 4: you're gain to you have access to financial services and
Speaker 4: at low cost, as Bank zero is suggesting.
Speaker 3: Arthur Godstuck, thanks so much, founder at Worldwide Works.
Speaker 1: Stephen's on The Money Show six.
Speaker 4: To eight pm.
Speaker 3: Confirmation this week that the institutional investment firm Novare is
Speaker 3: spending money on the development of rare earth. They're raising
Speaker 3: one hundred million dollars for rare earth processing plants in
Speaker 3: the US and in Africa with the American firm re
Speaker 3: Element Technologies. Derek Roper is a co founder of Novara
Speaker 3: and the managing director. Derek. Good evening to you. I
Speaker 3: mean that's quite interesting. Until about two years ago, maybe
Speaker 3: even a year ago, if you had looked at someone
Speaker 3: and said to them rare earth, so it would probably
Speaker 3: have looked at you. Funny. Suddenly they're all the vogue,
Speaker 3: and I think many people just know that they're used
Speaker 3: in magnets, but obviously they have a lot of value.
Speaker 5: Good evening, Stephen, Yes, you correct, you know. I think
Speaker 5: it's it's really over the last twelve months that you know,
Speaker 5: rare earths and critical minerals has been in the news
Speaker 5: a number of times, you know, and people realized, you know,
Speaker 5: what important role of and critical minerals play in our
Speaker 5: day to day lives. And I think a large part
Speaker 5: of this has been because of the control of China
Speaker 5: over the production and the refining of these materials, and
Speaker 5: due to the geopolitical issues in the world, specifically around
Speaker 5: tariffs and then specifically about rare earths and supply chains. So, yes,
Speaker 5: you're correct, it's only you know, in the last twelve
Speaker 5: months that you know, the global you know, has become
Speaker 5: aware of our critical this is and what important impact
Speaker 5: has got on the supply chains.
Speaker 3: Are we talking about something with very specific properties? So
Speaker 3: I use the example of magnetism because that's what some
Speaker 3: of them are able to do. They're able to have
Speaker 3: some very interesting properties.
Speaker 5: Yes, definitely, you know, so these are very you know,
Speaker 5: it's actually you know, metal materials that it's in abundance
Speaker 5: in the global crust and it's critical in use in
Speaker 5: many aspects of our lives today. The problem with that
Speaker 5: today is, you know, it's not that it's not abundant around,
Speaker 5: it's more the refining of that, in the processing of
Speaker 5: that that is controlled by China.
Speaker 3: So you are investing in a processing plant in Indiana
Speaker 3: in the US, as I understand that the US is
Speaker 3: dependent has been dependent on China for which presumably means
Speaker 3: at this stage they don't aren't able to supply many
Speaker 3: of their own needs. So why the processing plants in
Speaker 3: the US? What am I missing?
Speaker 5: So Stephen, yes, I think what we're really investing into
Speaker 5: is the technology that re Elements is developed with Purdue
Speaker 5: University in the US, which is very unique and novel
Speaker 5: and groundbreaking. So we are investing into the Elements in
Speaker 5: the US basically to you know, to tie them into
Speaker 5: the African operations that we are in the process of
Speaker 5: developing with re Elements. So our big focus, as Navarry,
Speaker 5: is really to bring the technology of re Elements to
Speaker 5: South Africa and Africa to develop these refining and processing
Speaker 5: facilities in South Africa and other parts of Africa. South
Speaker 5: Africa has got huge amounts of rare and critical mineral resources. However,
Speaker 5: there's no refining or processing in South Africa. So the
Speaker 5: main purpose of our investment is to bring this technology
Speaker 5: of elements to South Africa and to develop refining plants
Speaker 5: in South Africa to be able to produce these materials
Speaker 5: on home soil.
Speaker 3: At this point, do we know where in South Africa
Speaker 3: they might be where mining operations would be hopefully in
Speaker 3: the near future.
Speaker 5: So Stephen, very interesting that many minds already produce in
Speaker 5: these materials. As I see to you, it's abundant and
Speaker 5: a lot of these materials are site products of many
Speaker 5: mines in South Africa already. So are there already a
Speaker 5: number of mines in South Africa where these rare elves
Speaker 5: are actually mined as part of other mining operations. So
Speaker 5: we're looking at establishing a plant in how Thing specifically
Speaker 5: where we will then bring materials or rarefs or other
Speaker 5: critical minerals from different parts of South Africa or even
Speaker 5: Southern Africa to this plant and using the re element
Speaker 5: technology then to do the processing and the refining.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Indeed, Derek Roper is the co
Speaker 3: founder of Namara and managing and the managing director there.
Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven oas is Monday, till Friday
Speaker 1: six to APM.
Speaker 3: There was confirmation yesterday from the Minister of Electricity and
Speaker 3: Energy Hosensromacopa that Cabinet has agreed to draw up a
Speaker 3: plan that will help to keep smelters inside North Africa.
Speaker 3: Smelter's use an unbelievable amount of electricity. Essentially, it would
Speaker 3: seem to mean that smelters might have to be subsidized
Speaker 3: to remain in South Africa. Several have already been closed
Speaker 3: just this year alone because of the high cost. Cabinet
Speaker 3: also wants to institute an expert tax on raw chrome.
Speaker 3: Chris y Ellen as a managing director at EE Business Intelligence,
Speaker 3: Chris Good evening, this is such a curious question because
Speaker 3: from what you've published and what you've said, it seems
Speaker 3: almost that with subsidizing smelters already, some of them seem
Speaker 3: to be paying a lot less for electricity than even
Speaker 3: other industrial users.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not what I've said.
Speaker 6: It's a study by Meridian Economics, a highly respected economics
Speaker 6: advisory company, who've done an analysis of this subject. Yes,
Speaker 6: energy is certain very limited number, but certain privileged energy
Speaker 6: intensive customers like the aluminum smelter Hillside Aluminum smelter South
Speaker 6: City two get electricity at significantly lower than other similar
Speaker 6: industrial companies. Companies like if we're going to saddle or
Speaker 6: mining companies pay what is known as the megaflex tariff,
Speaker 6: whereas Hillside, it's been shown by the study by Meridiot,
Speaker 6: get a price discount of effectively fifty percent. And the
Speaker 6: question is is this justified? Of course, there are certain
Speaker 6: benefits that a large user like that provides iscom The
Speaker 6: question is is the discount realistic or not.
Speaker 3: It's a huge but it's a huge percentage. I mean,
Speaker 3: over the life of Hillside it's sort of fifty percent
Speaker 3: of the electricity cost, which is there pretty much the
Speaker 3: most of their cost. Does this mean that they're getting
Speaker 3: a much better deal than people who are in direct
Speaker 3: competition with them, or just a much better deal than
Speaker 3: other people in industry?
Speaker 6: Well, look, Hillside Aluminium is the only aluminium smelter in
Speaker 6: South Africa. So if you're talking about a direct competitor
Speaker 6: another aluminum smelter, well they are, there are no direct competitor.
Speaker 7: But in the alloys business there are you.
Speaker 6: Know a number of producers of ferro metals and alloys
Speaker 6: and some of them receive a special pricing agreement known
Speaker 6: as NPAs negotiated price agreements with the scrip and they
Speaker 6: have an advantage.
Speaker 8: So, for example, oarsal.
Speaker 6: Mittle, to my knowledge, does not ever have a negotiated
Speaker 6: price agreement. They are a steel producer, but other smelters do,
Speaker 6: so I suppose yes, in some circumstances there are direct
Speaker 6: competitors that do not get the subsidy.
Speaker 3: Do we know how some got subsidies in some didn't?
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, this is a fascinating question, and
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to be so cynical, but I've learned to
Speaker 3: be more and more cynical over my years. I mean,
Speaker 3: do we know? I mean, hasn't always been that? We know?
Speaker 3: Some people have had agreements like this and some haven't.
Speaker 6: Yes, you know, the special pricing agreements or negotiated price
Speaker 6: agreements that South eighty two has date back decades, you know,
Speaker 6: to the days of the HP bulletin. You know where
Speaker 6: they negotiated a special pricing agreement and they had us.
Speaker 6: There are other companies, I think Anglo American Scorpion Zinc
Speaker 6: at one stage has a negotiated price agreement, and in
Speaker 6: the last few years several more companies have basically approached
Speaker 6: government or the regulator or ESCAM said listen, if you
Speaker 6: don't give us a special price less electricity, we're going
Speaker 6: to close down. And so it's about using one's mettle's weight,
Speaker 6: lobbying hard and almost holding the country to ransom in
Speaker 6: the sense that if you don't give us a special
Speaker 6: pricing agreement, unfortunately we will not be competitive. We'll close
Speaker 6: our business. There will be lots of jobs, and we
Speaker 6: will walk away. So I think the companies that are
Speaker 6: the most under pressure, you know, have approached the authorities
Speaker 6: to try to negotiate a special pricing agreement.
Speaker 3: So the argument from government is that smelters create jobs
Speaker 3: that without them, we are de industrializing. And I mean
Speaker 3: we have been de industrializing that in some way, even
Speaker 3: if it means government or the rest of us who
Speaker 3: pay for electricity have to subsidize these smelters, we are
Speaker 3: subsidizing jobs. I mean, does that work economically? I realize
Speaker 3: it's a very big question, but that is surely going
Speaker 3: to be the argument from government.
Speaker 6: So I mean, let's just look, for example, at the
Speaker 6: aluminum smelting industry. They are a huge user of electricity.
Speaker 6: In fact, they use more than five percent of all
Speaker 6: of sow The one aluminium smelter a Hillside Aluminium uses
Speaker 6: about five and a half percent of southern electricity generated
Speaker 6: in South Africa. They're not a big employer. These are
Speaker 6: highly automated, you know, energy intensive industries. They are not
Speaker 6: labor intensive at all. So in my article I mentioned
Speaker 6: some figures about how many people they employ. I haven't
Speaker 6: got it right in front of you, but it's probably
Speaker 6: less than two thousand people. Two thousand is not a
Speaker 6: small number, but it's certainly not a big number based
Speaker 6: on them other the energy that they use. Yes, you
Speaker 6: know jobs will be impacted. The question is you know
Speaker 6: one can subsidize and they is a case. There can
Speaker 6: be a case for subsidizing particular service or product or industry,
Speaker 6: but it has to be carefully and rationally and economically
Speaker 6: evaluated and studied to work out the cost benefit analysis,
Speaker 6: and that has to be done in a way that
Speaker 6: is transparent. You know, the public can see that there
Speaker 6: is a rationale for this. In this particular case, this
Speaker 6: kind of economic study has not been done. Eskam have
Speaker 6: an argument. They say that there is a benefit to
Speaker 6: Eskim in their is a large user like hillside aluminium
Speaker 6: it can switch off when needed at short notice and
Speaker 6: alleviate load shedding for example.
Speaker 7: So it acts as as.
Speaker 6: A kind of emergency reserve. That that means that ESCAM
Speaker 6: doesn't have to have generation emergency reserves. It can instead
Speaker 6: of switching on generators, it can switch off aluminium smelters
Speaker 6: for a few hours a week and that's quite useful.
Speaker 6: The question is what is the economic benefit of that,
Speaker 6: and is the economic benefit commensurate with a fifty percent
Speaker 6: discount for electricity over you know, ten years that is
Speaker 6: effectively subsidizing them by billions and billions of brands. So
Speaker 6: one's going to look at the economic balance, and the
Speaker 6: study by Marine Economic shows quite clearly that there are
Speaker 6: other options.
Speaker 7: Besides, you know, the the shedding of load.
Speaker 6: From hillside, for example, through battery energy storage systems that
Speaker 6: could be done at a fraction of the price. So
Speaker 6: the question is, you know, are we using the most
Speaker 6: economic way of solving a particular problem. So you've got
Speaker 6: to look at the economic benefits and the costs and
Speaker 6: is that the right Is that discount the right discount?
Speaker 6: Is it fifty percent disc aren't the right discount or not?
Speaker 3: Christi Allan, thank you so much, Managing director at EE
Speaker 3: Business Intelligence. The Money Show. Lakamuni is the chief investment
Speaker 3: officer at Benguela Global Fund Managers. Welaka Good evening, Bank
Speaker 3: zero and Lasaka does show you how quickly the space
Speaker 3: has evolved.
Speaker 8: No, certainly, I think we are seeing since moving fairly
Speaker 8: fast for that Bank zero. I think we will see
Speaker 8: how these digital banks actually take off in the in
Speaker 8: the coming months and years. But I think the model
Speaker 8: of not having branches and moving digital, I think it's
Speaker 8: quite a significant model.
Speaker 3: US markets are moving towards record levels, past record levels
Speaker 3: actually on some metrics in the US, And we had
Speaker 3: Graham Kerner speaking in the Slot last night. He said
Speaker 3: that in his view, and I mean very very intelligent
Speaker 3: people can argue a lot about this, but he said
Speaker 3: that he doesn't think the US markets are properly pricing
Speaker 3: in risk the ways hees the world. It's just not
Speaker 3: it's just not sort of valid. How do you see it?
Speaker 3: I mean, do you agree with them?
Speaker 8: I'd say, partially agree with him. I think that the
Speaker 8: big component of that market not passing risk properly is
Speaker 8: in the tech sector. So if you look at the
Speaker 8: risk premiums in the tech sector, they're actually negative at
Speaker 8: the current moment. Compared to some other sectors, they actually positive.
Speaker 8: And I think if you look the consumer sector and
Speaker 8: the financials are being valued almost as if things are
Speaker 8: going to continue conically being strong. But if that doesn't materialize,
Speaker 8: I think the risk is there as well. But broadly speaking,
Speaker 8: the risk is more on the tech sector evaluations.
Speaker 3: So in other words, I mean, there are such high
Speaker 3: multiples right now that they could disappoint just a little
Speaker 3: bit and there'll be a huge response.
Speaker 8: Absolutely. I think that that's the biggest risk for the
Speaker 8: tech sector, and from an economic perspective, the consumer related
Speaker 8: stocks and the financials could also be affected by that.
Speaker 3: Oil prices, it's been interesting oil prices have been at
Speaker 3: pretty much the same level for the last three days.
Speaker 3: After everything that happened in Israel, Iran and the United States.
Speaker 3: They've gone back to let me just say, kind of
Speaker 3: normal very quickly and stayed there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the war premium is out of the price.
Speaker 8: I think we touched seventy three and then we put
Speaker 8: back to between sixty six and sixty seven. I think
Speaker 8: the bottom line is that with the state of almost
Speaker 8: been open. I think that that what premium is out
Speaker 8: of the way, but I think there's still quite a
Speaker 8: bit of risk. We could see that the war fled
Speaker 8: up again between Israel and Iran, so that there could
Speaker 8: still be risk, but I think the current level is
Speaker 8: probably going to be a level that can be sustained
Speaker 8: if there's no war.
Speaker 3: So I'm good in thanks very much, indeed, Chief investment Officer,
Speaker 3: Benguela Global Fund Managers, you have the money show just
Speaker 3: gone six thirty.
Speaker 1: Stephen, that's on the money six to eight pm.
Speaker 3: Well, I followed with interest the presidency statement that was
Speaker 3: released today and it was really explaining well, I'll come
Speaker 3: to that in a moment, but it was really in
Speaker 3: response to all of the conversations that you'll have heard
Speaker 3: and the political comments made particularly by the DA and
Speaker 3: their leader John Stennaesen, in the reaction to President Sarama
Speaker 3: Paus's decision to fire Andrew Whitfield, the Deputy Minister of Trade,
Speaker 3: Industry and Competition. There are a few things that I
Speaker 3: still at this point on a Friday evening, still do
Speaker 3: not understand. The first, of course, is that if the
Speaker 3: trip that the presidency says was taken without permission, and
Speaker 3: I don't think there's a dispute about that. But more
Speaker 3: on that in a moment too. If that happened several
Speaker 3: months ago, why only fire him now? This is surely
Speaker 3: the biggest mystery of the whole thing, is that if
Speaker 3: he was fired for doing X, why wait three months
Speaker 3: and then fire him? Why not fire him immediately? What
Speaker 3: happened on Thursday? That meant he could be fired. That
Speaker 3: meant he could not have been fed on Wednesday, if
Speaker 3: you catch my drift. To add to that, if you
Speaker 3: could tell us on Friday why someone has been fired,
Speaker 3: why couldn't you tell us on Thursday when they were
Speaker 3: actually fired? You know, and I understand the Presidency's sort
Speaker 3: of point that you know, it's not common, it's not
Speaker 3: normally done for a president to give reasons why the
Speaker 3: hire and fire people. Doesn't mean that it's wrong to
Speaker 3: give reasons. Doesn't mean it's right not to give reasons either,
Speaker 3: I would suggest underneath all of that, so sort of
Speaker 3: if you listen to Andrew Whoitfield, and he gave an
Speaker 3: interview I think he gave one to Mandy weena earlier today,
Speaker 3: but he also spoke to John Pillman yesterday on seven
Speaker 3: oh two, and he sort of made the point that
Speaker 3: he had asked for permission and then followed up every
Speaker 3: day for nine days to get no response. Okay, I
Speaker 3: mean that after nine days kind of strikes me as
Speaker 3: a bit rude. Maybe it's just me, but there's something
Speaker 3: else going on here. I don't know what. I have
Speaker 3: no idea what it could be. I do just still
Speaker 3: at the age have several questions because some of it
Speaker 3: just doesn't seem to add up. I still don't get
Speaker 3: why you'd fire someone now for what they did back
Speaker 3: in March.
Speaker 2: Stephen has gone x at at Stephen.
Speaker 3: On your Next Money Show, Zilde Lachranji, the former private
Speaker 3: secretary to Nelson Mandela, now an international speaker, joins us
Speaker 3: to tell you how she makes her money. On the
Speaker 3: Business Books feature, we catch up with Professor David Kinley,
Speaker 3: a leading global expert on human rights law and corporate accountability.
Speaker 3: His new book is called In a Rain of Dust,
Speaker 3: Death and Deceit and the lawyer who bust Bigger be
Speaker 3: as Bestos. Will also analyze all the top business news
Speaker 3: of the day.
Speaker 2: The Money Show, The Friday File Friday File.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if you have pets and where
Speaker 3: they sleep at night. I think most dogs in South
Speaker 3: Africa probably sleep outside, maybe on the stoop. Some dogs
Speaker 3: sleep inside slum, sleep in the main bedroom if they lucky.
Speaker 3: Some I'm told by some younger people in my family,
Speaker 3: even sleep on a person. There's been a huge change
Speaker 3: in the pet market, if I can call it that,
Speaker 3: over the last few years, and in fact at the
Speaker 3: moment there's a massive war going on between some of
Speaker 3: our major supermarket chains. They've started or simply brought out
Speaker 3: pet food chains because they sense that people are spending
Speaker 3: a lot more money on animals. Deon Chang is the
Speaker 3: founder of Flux Trends. Good Evening, It's actually quite extraordinary.
Speaker 3: I mean, twenty years ago, a dog was a dog
Speaker 3: and it was lucky to sleep in a kennel. Now
Speaker 3: a dog is a fur baby. People actually use that phrase.
Speaker 3: It's astonishing how much it's changed.
Speaker 2: Good Evening, Stephen, thanks for having me.
Speaker 9: Yes, the booming pet economy is a thing, and it's
Speaker 9: been booming for quite some time and it just is
Speaker 9: not slowing down. They sort of estimate the global pet
Speaker 9: economy currently to be valued about three hundred billion dollars
Speaker 9: and by twenty thirty or so, it'll go up to
Speaker 9: about five hundred billion. So it's it is just growing exponentially,
Speaker 9: and there's quite a confidence of reasons for this. So
Speaker 9: I think a lot of people, especially younger people. You
Speaker 9: mentioned younger people sort of quite happy to have their
Speaker 9: pets on the bed, but younger people are not wanting
Speaker 9: to have kids, or there is a child free movement
Speaker 9: going around the world. The declining birth rates Africa is anomaly.
Speaker 9: But all of that money and love is going somewhere,
Speaker 9: and it's going into this pet economy.
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say, I mean, in so
Speaker 3: many places people live in single households, in other words,
Speaker 3: they live on their own. There's also much more of
Speaker 3: a virtual world going on, so you're not even going
Speaker 3: into an office necessarily. You want something around you that
Speaker 3: you can love, and that's a very human emotion. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I think that really sort of. I think the
Speaker 3: pandemic sparked it. There was a huge uptick in pet
Speaker 3: adoption during the pandemic. Sadly, there was also a post
Speaker 3: pandemic a lot of people that gave up their pets
Speaker 3: as well, But sort of in the interim, things just
Speaker 3: started going let's be diplomatic a little crazy, So I was.
Speaker 2: I've been researching because I'm actually writing a book on this.
Speaker 9: There are jet airlines for the poochers who don't turn
Speaker 9: left on commercial airlines, and there are quite a lot
Speaker 9: of them. That's a that go on G four, G
Speaker 9: seven jets to be able to do this. There are
Speaker 9: luxury hotels that have room service menu for for dogs
Speaker 9: and Michelin star menus as well, and the services.
Speaker 2: And you know, I also follow the money.
Speaker 9: So you mentioned the almighty battle between supermarkets and acquisitions.
Speaker 9: When when that sort of thing starts happening, you start
Speaker 9: wondering what's going on. And the other indicator was that
Speaker 9: all the luxury brands have all started independent pet lines.
Speaker 9: So whether it's dog balls, carriers, poop carriers, you name it,
Speaker 9: anything from Louis on to Gucci has got a range
Speaker 9: of pet pet accessories.
Speaker 3: So I mean a lot of human beings, and I
Speaker 3: think this is this very human will try and get
Speaker 3: their child the very best of what they can afford.
Speaker 3: In private schools in Jerbig and in Cape Down have
Speaker 3: been making packets of money out of this for hundreds
Speaker 3: of years. In some cases, right people want the best.
Speaker 3: It may not actually be the best for their child
Speaker 3: or in this case, for their dog, but they're translating
Speaker 3: that into pets, aren't they. They're saying, well, this is
Speaker 3: the thing that I love, and I'm going to get
Speaker 3: the best for it, whether it's a G seven.
Speaker 8: Or a G for.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean to kind of check the just that
Speaker 9: all my research was was going on track as well,
Speaker 9: because I've written this article for for Your Luxure Africa,
Speaker 9: but this book is building. And I interviewed a pet
Speaker 9: behaviorist as well just to kind of find out what
Speaker 9: her take on all of this really really was, and
Speaker 9: she just said absolutely. She said there are growing clients
Speaker 9: her client base in South Africa, a lot of first
Speaker 9: time pet owners who are also saying, outrights, I'm not
Speaker 9: having children. This is my fir child, and I will
Speaker 9: spend everything and anything I need to on on.
Speaker 2: My fur baby. And so you're starting to see this thing.
Speaker 9: And what was interesting when you sort of started, you know,
Speaker 9: introducing this to the secret segment. You know, I think
Speaker 9: maybe a decade ago, it was quite acceptable your dogs
Speaker 9: were dogs and cats were cats, and.
Speaker 2: That that's what they did.
Speaker 9: They they were kind of service animals for want of
Speaker 9: a better word. They were guard dogs, cats kind of
Speaker 9: chased mice and rats and all of those kind of things,
Speaker 9: and slowly they've moved moved into the home. And and
Speaker 9: then with that is this kind of a deep effection,
Speaker 9: affection and bond that you you're starting to develop with
Speaker 9: with your with your pets and your animals. So there's
Speaker 9: a it's a it's a strange shift within the mindset
Speaker 9: of of just having that dog that that is, that
Speaker 9: is there for a service, to being a full on companion.
Speaker 3: One of the strange things about this is we don't
Speaker 3: know of all of this money and the Mitchellin Star menu,
Speaker 3: which I'm still just dealing with that in my head
Speaker 3: for a moment actually makes the animal any happier the
Speaker 3: dogs in my life. But the one is at his
Speaker 3: happiest as he's bringing the ball back. I mean, nothing
Speaker 3: makes him happy. He smiles. And the other is just
Speaker 3: after she's been fed, literally in the ten seconds it
Speaker 3: takes so and it doesn't really matter what it is.
Speaker 3: The point I'm trying to make is that you don't
Speaker 3: I mean, if you you can spend all the money
Speaker 3: you like on a special marrow bone, it doesn't rarely
Speaker 3: mean that your animal is any happier or even any healthier,
Speaker 3: And that's something you can't really measure. All you have
Speaker 3: is the well, I'm doing the best, therefore it must
Speaker 3: be fine. But actually the dog itself is still you know,
Speaker 3: just the dog.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 9: And this is what the behaviorists really clarified for me
Speaker 9: as well, is you know, if you go to the
Speaker 9: extremes of of kind of dressing up your pet, so
Speaker 9: there's there's there's there's a there's a spectrum of pet PA.
Speaker 9: So it's just like you know, on the one on
Speaker 9: the low end is just the treats and all of that,
Speaker 9: the high end of the private jets, but then on
Speaker 9: the really really extreme end is kind of dressing up
Speaker 9: your pets and doing things, you know, for that pet.
Speaker 2: And you know, she asked a question.
Speaker 9: You know you need to ask ask your question, Stulf,
Speaker 9: are you doing this for the pet or are you
Speaker 9: doing it for yourself? So one of the things that's
Speaker 9: really sparked, and I think this is an interesting stat
Speaker 9: for the listeners as well. That was a genesis of
Speaker 9: this book as well, is in South Korea where there
Speaker 9: are really really declining birth rates agent populations and a huge,
Speaker 9: huge pet economy there. In twenty twenty three, I stumble
Speaker 9: over a stat of a they call them baggies, but
Speaker 9: a pram manufacturer who released their figures for that year,
Speaker 9: and in twenty twenty three they sold more prams for
Speaker 9: pets than they did for human babies, which tells you
Speaker 9: quite a lot.
Speaker 3: Sure, there's some countries still on the Michillan menu. By
Speaker 3: the way, there's some countries. There's some countries where there
Speaker 3: is a long tradition of actually eating dogs. I realized
Speaker 3: quite a difficult thing to talk about for a lot
Speaker 3: of people. Parts of Italy, it was a specialty. Parts
Speaker 3: of China, South Korea, which is interesting because you just
Speaker 3: mentioned a different way Nagaland in northern India if I
Speaker 3: recall correctly. And maybe the research is not there yet,
Speaker 3: but are we seeing places where that happened actually now
Speaker 3: changing and sort of treating dogs in the way that
Speaker 3: these very rich people are now doing that. What I'm
Speaker 3: trying to get to is are we seeing a sort
Speaker 3: of cultural differences in the way this is happening in
Speaker 3: different places? And now started the segment by pointing out
Speaker 3: that most dogs in South Africa probably still sleep outside
Speaker 3: and some will sleep on their owner's beds. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: definitely shifting. So if you look.
Speaker 9: At so you mentioned South Korea, so they actually passed
Speaker 9: a law banning the sale and consumption of dog meat.
Speaker 9: So it was kind of like an age old practice
Speaker 9: that's kind of switched itself over. And then if you
Speaker 9: actually look at place like in China about ten or
Speaker 9: twelve years ago, this scradule switch happened of being pets
Speaker 9: as or animals as being serce dogs, so god dogs,
Speaker 9: all of that kind of thing to companions bringing into
Speaker 9: their home. You start layering on the fact that a
Speaker 9: dog's last span is ten years, possibly twelve to fifteen
Speaker 9: if you if you're really really lucky. So if a
Speaker 9: decade ago those puppies were slowly brought into the family,
Speaker 9: those are now elderly dogs, and that has spawned a
Speaker 9: different economy within China of elderly pet care and pet fune,
Speaker 9: which is also a huge thing there as well. So
Speaker 9: you started to see the shift in every part of
Speaker 9: the world that's coming here, and South Africa is no
Speaker 9: different either.
Speaker 3: Sure fascinating. Dion Shang, thanks so much, founder of Flux
Speaker 3: Trends and a reminder that when I get home, I
Speaker 3: will probably be greeted by someone with the ball.
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Speaker 3: All right, time for the Friday Biz Blitz this Friday.
Speaker 3: Here we go. You know how it works. We give
Speaker 3: you a question. If you get it right, we move
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Speaker 3: the Friday Biz Blitz, The businessman Michael sh're Dan is
Speaker 3: the co founder and chair of a digital bank that
Speaker 3: doesn't charge fees on transactions or accounts. What is the
Speaker 3: bank called? Michael Jordan is the co founder and chair
Speaker 3: of which digital Banks? In the news today? Oh double
Speaker 3: one double eight three seven two two one four four
Speaker 3: six five six seven.
Speaker 1: Stephen taking your calls on one one eight three seven two.
Speaker 3: The businessman Michael shaw Dann the co founder and chair
Speaker 3: of which digital bank that doesn't charge fees on transactions
Speaker 3: or accounts? That is the number first question on the
Speaker 3: Friday bis Blitz this evening. Let's go to Mandla in
Speaker 3: Rosebank in Joe Burger. I'm guessing, Mandla high Hi bank zero.
Speaker 3: It is Bank zero, Mindla? Okay, And yesterday Lasaka Technologies
Speaker 3: has bought it for just over a billion round. Okay.
Speaker 3: Second question on the Friday bis Blitz, Mandla, Here we go.
Speaker 3: After more than three decades shaping global fashion trends, which
Speaker 3: which which legendary end we start again? Anna Wintour is
Speaker 3: stepping down from her role as chief content Officer condemn
Speaker 3: asked and global editorial director of which magazine? When you
Speaker 3: think of the name the fashion named Anna Wintour, which
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Speaker 3: she's sipping down after being in charge for over thirty years. Okay.
Speaker 3: Question three, Mandla, which tech billionaire wedding plans? Which which
Speaker 3: which tech billionaire wedding plans to former to wed the
Speaker 3: former news anchor Laurence Sanchez. It caused a massive protest
Speaker 3: in Venice. So which very rich person is marrying Laurence Sanchez?
Speaker 3: And that did to protests in Venice? Given, Mandle, you're
Speaker 3: on a streak here, man, Yes, this is Jeff. There's US. Okay,
Speaker 3: here we go. What was the code name for the
Speaker 3: US military operation that deployed massive bunker buster bombs and
Speaker 3: Tomahawk missiles to strike Iran's nuclear facilities. What was the
Speaker 3: name of the operation Midnight? Hansh Mandla. This is incredible.
Speaker 3: You've been boning up. Did someone I'm just asking, did
Speaker 3: someone give you the questions? Okay, here we go. Which
Speaker 3: South African bank? It's a digital bank linked to Patrise
Speaker 3: Motzepe is considering legal action to stop home affairs from
Speaker 3: drastically increasing identity verification fees. Oh, Mindler, Okay, yes, the
Speaker 3: last question. This is the only question I have, the
Speaker 3: last one. Okay. The National Association of Securities Dealer's Automated
Speaker 3: Quotations is commonly known by which name or acronym? National
Speaker 3: Association of Securities Dealers Automated Quotations. It's a great question.
Speaker 3: It is the NASTEC. Mindler. Congratulations, Wow, oh Mindler, enjoy
Speaker 3: your weekend. Congratulations. That was amazing, A clean sweep of
Speaker 3: the Friday BIS blitz. At seven o'clock,