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Speaker 1: Seven two. You're listening to the best of The Money Show.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show. Welcome to the best bits of The

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Speaker 2: Money Show are digestive some of the most important insights,

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Speaker 2: thoughts and comments from the show this week. If you

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Speaker 2: want to hear more, you can go to our website

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Speaker 2: or your podcast app and search for The Money Show.

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Speaker 2: And as always there's often a story and insight. I

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Speaker 2: thought a comment that you think might be valuable to

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Speaker 2: someone you know, someone you work with, someone in your community,

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Speaker 2: a good idea to share it with them and really

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Speaker 2: just to help them along their financial way. To start.

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Speaker 2: Some of the news stories that we thought were important

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Speaker 2: from this week and the World Economic Forum their annual

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Speaker 2: meeting in the Swiss resort city of Davos, inevitably somehow

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Speaker 2: dominated by the US President Donald Trump and his speech,

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Speaker 2: but I think overall his comment that he would not

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Speaker 2: use force to take greenland that of course led to

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Speaker 2: the taco trade. Trump always chickens out and had a

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Speaker 2: big impact on markets around the world through the week.

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Speaker 2: Arsenal Mottile South Africa saying discussions with the IDC have

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Speaker 2: gathered pace, offering renewed hope that three and a half

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Speaker 2: thousand jobs in Quasillintel and Hearting might in fact be saved,

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Speaker 2: and the ranfirming going below sixteen dollars twenty to the

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Speaker 2: dollar at one point this week, its strongest level in

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Speaker 2: more than three years. Tonight we bring you a mix

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Speaker 2: of stories from the world of money from the week

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Speaker 2: that was in this week's edition of Personal Finance, the

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Speaker 2: certified financial planner at Galileo Capital, Warren Ingram, exploring the

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Speaker 2: concept of financial freedom, unpacking how to calculate a personal

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Speaker 2: financial freedom number, and then how you can take practical

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Speaker 2: steps to make sure that you get to the number

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Speaker 2: you want to get to.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know, it's my favorite topics. I think

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Speaker 3: I could talk about this all day every day, but

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Speaker 3: I think the start of the year is a very

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Speaker 3: good time to have a conversation like this because it's

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Speaker 3: not just about housekeeping. It's also I would hope for

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Speaker 3: a lot of us maybe a little motivating to figure

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Speaker 3: out where we are, you know, compared to where we

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Speaker 3: were a year ago. Have we made some progress, And

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Speaker 3: especially after year like twenty five, twenty twenty five where

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Speaker 3: the markets were good to us, you know, one hopes

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Speaker 3: that actually you've got a bit of market growth, and

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Speaker 3: it wasn't all just down to your savings. So to me,

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Speaker 3: it's a little bit like true North for our planning.

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Speaker 3: You know, where are we and where are we going?

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Speaker 3: And a lot of the time when I speak to

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Speaker 3: people about about their money, if they feel out of

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Speaker 3: control and they feel but aimless about their money, it's

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Speaker 3: almost literally because they have no aim, they have no goal,

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Speaker 3: they don't know what their number is. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's a good one to understand. And you're right, it

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Speaker 3: is very simple to me. Even I can work it

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Speaker 3: out on my calculator on my phone. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's something we can all do for ourselves once a

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Speaker 3: year without you know, launching big AI apps or big

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Speaker 3: Excel spreadsheets.

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Speaker 2: So then how do you begin to calculate this? And

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Speaker 2: I suppose what we're asking about is the factors that

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Speaker 2: we use, which is about how much we earn, but

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Speaker 2: it's about how much we're going to spend, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of the time, you know,

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Speaker 3: we start in the wrong direction because we focus on

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Speaker 3: what we earn. And the reason that's not very relevant

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Speaker 3: is you know, your list style is not determined by

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Speaker 3: your income. And I know sometimes people think that but

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Speaker 3: actually your list style is determined by what you spend,

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Speaker 3: and so it's a crucial number and it's one that

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Speaker 3: you have some control over. So when you're doing your

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Speaker 3: financial freedom number, to me, the thing you start with is,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you don't know what you spend in

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Speaker 3: an average month and maybe therefore in an average year,

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Speaker 3: then look back at your banking app or your you know,

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Speaker 3: if you do have, if you don't use cash, then

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Speaker 3: certainly on your banking app and your credit cards, look

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Speaker 3: at what you've spent over the last three months, because

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Speaker 3: it's probably a good average, and you need to include

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Speaker 3: everything in that expenditure. In other words, what you've spent

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Speaker 3: on holidays, what you've spent on you know, if you

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Speaker 3: own a property, on your rates, and if you don't,

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Speaker 3: what you spend on rent and gifts and all that stuff,

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Speaker 3: car maintenance, everything. Put it all together and get to

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Speaker 3: a monthly number, and then multiply that by twelve. The

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Speaker 3: reason we're doing that is we want to get to

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Speaker 3: what it costs you to run your lifestyle over a

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Speaker 3: typical year, and just to do the simple mass. If

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Speaker 3: you're spending forty thousand a month as an average, then

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Speaker 3: that means you're spending four hundred and eighty thousand a year,

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Speaker 3: and that's the key number. That's your lifestyle costs in

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Speaker 3: a year. And from there, the simple part is you

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Speaker 3: multiply that by twenty five and you are now at

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Speaker 3: your financial freedom number. It's the number of the amount

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Speaker 3: you need in investment assets to fund the last style

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Speaker 3: that you're currently living.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I mean your financial freedom number there would

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Speaker 2: be about twelve million Rand and that's the four percent rule.

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Speaker 2: What is the four percentral? Because that's crucial to this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So once you've got your number, the twelve million,

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Speaker 3: if you took twelve million and you worked out what

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Speaker 3: four hundred and eighty thousand is as a percentage of

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Speaker 3: twelve million, it's going to work out to four percent.

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Speaker 3: And four percent is kind of a magic number because

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Speaker 3: if you look at for example, you know, typical balanced

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Speaker 3: to unit trusts, over a long period of time, they

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Speaker 3: will generate a return of about ten percent of the

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Speaker 3: last thirty years, so ten percent a year of the

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Speaker 3: last thirty years. So if you're drawing four percent a year,

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Speaker 3: that means that you're leaving behind six percent a year

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Speaker 3: to be reinvested and if you look at our inflation rate,

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Speaker 3: I know it's relatively low now and let's hope it

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Speaker 3: stays that way. But if you look at inflation over

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Speaker 3: a longer period of time, it's been around that six level.

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Speaker 3: So six plus four gets us back to ten. So

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Speaker 3: if you can draw four percent from your investments and

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Speaker 3: you leave the balance behind to be reinvested, it means

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Speaker 3: that the buying power of your money is either staying

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Speaker 3: the same or it's growing, because the balance that you've

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Speaker 3: left behind is the part that gives you the capital

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Speaker 3: growth to match the cost of living increases. And so

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Speaker 3: for me, that's why four percent is a very important

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Speaker 3: number when you're looking at this to say, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to start and you know, let's say hit financial

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Speaker 3: freedom and spend my four hundred and eighty thousand around

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Speaker 3: a year, and I've forgotten about the creep of lifestyle costs,

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Speaker 3: and in ten years time, I'm still spending four hundred

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Speaker 3: and eighty thousand around a year, but it can't buy

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Speaker 3: me anything like it it was buying me ten years before.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And then obviously you've got to see what your

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Speaker 2: investments are doing, because at four percent, if you're taking

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Speaker 2: out four percent, they might still be growing significant clean

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Speaker 2: you might actually be okay for quite a while.

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Speaker 3: You can and I think you know, it's also why

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Speaker 3: we can exert some control over our financial position, because

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Speaker 3: in a very good year, for example, last year, you know,

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Speaker 3: if balanced funds were generating twenty percent and you decide

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Speaker 3: to maintain your withdrawal of four percent, it means you've

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Speaker 3: left a lot of growth on the table to stay invested,

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Speaker 3: to give you some protection against the bad years. And

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Speaker 3: there have been years, you know, if we think about

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty and before that two thousand and eight when

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Speaker 3: the markets lost money, and it's the protection against those

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Speaker 3: kinds of years where what is why you don't want

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Speaker 3: to draw all of the growth out of your investments.

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Speaker 3: You want the good years to kind of build up

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Speaker 3: that leeway and the cushion and the safety net in

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Speaker 3: your financial planning. And I think if you stay disciplined

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Speaker 3: and you continue to draw the four percent, if you

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Speaker 3: do that every year, sometimes your portfolio will be down

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Speaker 3: and drawing four percent, it means that you might be

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Speaker 3: spending a little bit less than you did the year before,

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Speaker 3: but generally, over a long period of time, you'll actually

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Speaker 3: find that your lifestyle will continue to grow and improve.

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Speaker 3: It won't just be stagnant as it was when you

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Speaker 3: hit your financial freedom number. So for me, a lot

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Speaker 3: of the time when we have these conversations, people always

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Speaker 3: go yes, but you know, yes, I had an emergency,

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Speaker 3: or you know, food inflation has gone up much faster.

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Speaker 3: And that's true over you know, one or two or

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Speaker 3: three year period. You don't know exactly what inflation is

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Speaker 3: going to do. And this kind of a rule doesn't work,

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Speaker 3: you know, perfectly every single year. It works very well

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Speaker 3: over a typical decade, and that's why you've got to

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Speaker 3: be careful about controlling your expenses. But it is possible

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Speaker 3: for us all to get there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and we need to sort of really get on

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Speaker 2: top of the idea that is not how much we're earning,

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Speaker 2: it's how much we spend is actually the big variable here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I did three examples just to

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Speaker 3: show you how powerful you or your spending is in

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Speaker 3: this equation. So for someone who spends an average of

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Speaker 3: fifteen thousand round a month, their financial freedom number is

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Speaker 3: four and a half million. So you spend fifteen you

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Speaker 3: need four and a half million of investments. If you

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Speaker 3: spend fifty thousand a month and you leave the balance

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Speaker 3: to or you need a balance of fifteen million of investments.

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Speaker 3: So suddenly you see, you know, it's a huge jug.

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Speaker 3: And then a lot of high income earners are probably

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Speaker 3: spending around one hundred and twenty thousand a month, and

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Speaker 3: they'll tell you that they can't get by with anything less.

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Speaker 3: And for someone in that position, if you're spending one

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty thousand a month, you need thirty six

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Speaker 3: million rounds worth of investments. And a note, we haven't

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Speaker 3: spoken about your income here. So someone who's earning very well,

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Speaker 3: you know, potentially earning one hundred thousand round a month

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Speaker 3: and is only spending fifty thousand a month, they're going

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Speaker 3: to get to financial freedom very quickly because they are

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Speaker 3: saving a huge amount of money and getting themselves on

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Speaker 3: that to position where their assets are going to cover

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Speaker 3: their expenses. The fact that they earn much more than

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Speaker 3: that doesn't matter to them because they're getting to that

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Speaker 3: financial freedom so much more quickly, and then they can

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Speaker 3: make different decisions about how they work, whether they work,

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Speaker 3: whether they want to spend a bit more in luxuries

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Speaker 3: because they've reached their financial freedom goal. But it's going

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Speaker 3: to take someone a very long time to get to

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Speaker 3: an investment value of thirty six million to fund lostyle

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Speaker 3: costs of one hundred and twenty thousand a month, and

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Speaker 3: that's the thing you can control. You're not obliged to

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Speaker 3: spend one hundred and twenty thousand a month.

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Speaker 2: So okay, this in a way, it's quite a personal

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Speaker 2: decision because I know some people and you know, you

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Speaker 2: know them as kids, and they're the ones who still

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Speaker 2: have lost Easter's easter eggs, you know, the chocolate when

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Speaker 2: the next Easter runs around, and they're able to actually

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Speaker 2: limit their spending and they get the economic freedom quite quickly,

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Speaker 2: and there are plenty of others will say, you know, yes, dad,

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Speaker 2: and by lunchtime it's all gone. And in fact they

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Speaker 2: they're kind of happy, I suppose until they get a

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Speaker 2: bit older.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's true. And I think you know financial freedoms.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the reason why I would talk about financial

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Speaker 3: freedom versus retirement is at some point retirement gets imposed

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Speaker 3: on us.

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Speaker 1: If you work.

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Speaker 3: For the large banks in South Africa, they usually kick

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Speaker 3: you out at round about age sixty two or sixty three.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure of the number, but you know, many

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Speaker 3: other organizations would say age sixty five, and so you

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Speaker 3: might hit retirement. But but you're not financially free. And

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Speaker 3: for me, that's quite a scary position to be in

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Speaker 3: because you know, a rule, you know, a contract, has

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Speaker 3: decided your financial future. It's not that you've taken control.

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Speaker 3: Someone has exerted control on you, and and and what

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Speaker 3: over you. And that's why, you know, for me, I

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Speaker 3: particularly don't want to be told what to do. You know,

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Speaker 3: I have that that flaw in my personality that I

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Speaker 3: don't want anyone to tell me what to do. So

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Speaker 3: I'm going to work incredibly hard to get to financial

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Speaker 3: freedom so that I can be the more of my

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Speaker 3: own destiny or my own disaster either way. And so

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, when we're talking about financial freedom,

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Speaker 3: it is important for you to say this is important

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Speaker 3: to me. It's something that I want to achieve. I'm

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Speaker 3: prepared to make some trade offs to get there as

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Speaker 3: quickly as possible, or you know, if you're happy. Let's

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Speaker 3: say a sort of classic case, someone who works in

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Speaker 3: an academic institution and they know that they're going to

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Speaker 3: do this job for the rest of their working lives

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Speaker 3: that they might say, I'm going to save a reasonable amount,

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Speaker 3: but I'm going to spend significantly more because i know

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Speaker 3: I've got a good position. I know I've got an

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Speaker 3: irreplaceable career. I'm not sure if such a thing exists anymore,

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Speaker 3: but maybe you believe that. And I'm happy in the

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Speaker 3: job that I'm doing, and I'm happy to do it

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Speaker 3: until sixty five or seventy or something like that. And

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Speaker 3: so for someone in that position, freedom is not as

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Speaker 3: important as you know, living day to day. And so

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Speaker 3: for them, they need to save, but they don't need

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Speaker 3: to necessarily be as aggressive in their saving.

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Speaker 2: Where does your home fit into all of this, because

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of us think of our home

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Speaker 2: as kind of part of our investments.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I think, you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: financial planning. One or one would say that it's not

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Speaker 3: a bad idea at retirement to have a paid off

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Speaker 3: house in which you live, because it's a it's a

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Speaker 3: cost then that you don't need to carry you if

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Speaker 3: you were comparing ownership versus rent. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't have a problem with that idea, but it doesn't

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Speaker 3: form part of your investment.

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Speaker 1: Assets.

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Speaker 3: So back to the example of someone who spends one

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty thousand a month, they need thirty six

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Speaker 3: million rands worth of investments to generate an income for them.

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Speaker 3: And your house in this instance is not an income

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Speaker 3: generating asset unless you've got a whole lot of extra

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Speaker 3: rooms on the side or something that generates you, you know,

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Speaker 3: additional rent. But if it's a normal home and the

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Speaker 3: only thing you do is live there and it doesn't

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Speaker 3: generate you any income, then you need to ignore it

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Speaker 3: for the purposes of your investment assets. And so it's

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Speaker 3: an additional asset that sits on the side. In fact,

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Speaker 3: it should be part of your last style costs, because

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Speaker 3: it's going to cost you need to pay the rent

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Speaker 3: or sorry to pay the rates, pay the maintenance, pay

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Speaker 3: levies if you stay in a body corporate, and so

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Speaker 3: it should be part of your expenses. But certainly something

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Speaker 3: you ignore as an investment asset.

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Speaker 2: Okay, a couple of WhatsApp messages coming through, and let

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Speaker 2: me sort of put them to you to give you

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Speaker 2: a chance to muld them over if I can. Warren

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Speaker 2: Lolly says, I've ten years of work left my savings

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Speaker 2: and pensions have been depleted for various personal and work reasons.

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Speaker 2: What do I do now until I'm sixty five? Okay,

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Speaker 2: so ten years of work left there for Lolli? And

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Speaker 2: then as Stefano was saying, if I at seventy seven,

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Speaker 2: can the four percent increase to say six percent? And

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Speaker 2: I think that's the question about how much life is

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Speaker 2: left and how much you can spend Warrent, I all right,

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Speaker 2: some questions for you tonight. LOLLI whatsapping saying I've got

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Speaker 2: ten years of work left. I don't have any savings

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Speaker 2: left for various reasons. What do I do now until

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Speaker 2: I'm sixty five? I mean, Lolli's in a tough place, Warren,

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Speaker 2: but actually probably reflects where so many people are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's very true. And I mean the

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Speaker 3: one thing to say, Elie is you've got ten years

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Speaker 3: which if you're careful now, you know you can make

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Speaker 3: a massive difference to your financial position. So firstly, I think,

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Speaker 3: I mean it sounds obvious, but you do need to

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Speaker 3: take a full control over your expenses and see how

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Speaker 3: much you can cut your expenses down now, because you

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Speaker 3: don't want to be doing this at retirement age when

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Speaker 3: you don't have an income, and you can't adjust to

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Speaker 3: a new reality. So if you haven't cut your expenses already,

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Speaker 3: you know it's time to take a hard look at

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Speaker 3: what you're spending and make sure that you're pairing it

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Speaker 3: down to the necessities now. Unfortunately, you know, with ten

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Speaker 3: years of work to go and no savings, it means,

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Speaker 3: you know, luxuries are not on your radar at the moment.

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Speaker 3: They might come back into the future, but for now,

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Speaker 3: pare down your expenses as much as you can. And

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Speaker 3: then you've got to save like crazy, and you've got

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Speaker 3: to make sure that nothing gets in the way of

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Speaker 3: your saving now. And I think you know, try and

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Speaker 3: build up your retirement savings as much as you can,

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Speaker 3: and you know, use the retirement fund exemptions that SARAS

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Speaker 3: gives us for making contributions to our pension, provident and

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Speaker 3: retirement and newity funds and see what you can do.

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Speaker 3: And then don't forget that you have by the time

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Speaker 3: you hit to age sixty five, that's not the end

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Speaker 3: of your usefulness to society or your ability to earn

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Speaker 3: an income, because you need to make sure that in

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Speaker 3: the next ten years you stay you know, you stay

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Speaker 3: current You've got time and you've got experience, and that

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Speaker 3: can be hugely valuable to people who might not need

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Speaker 3: you full time, but maybe they can use you part time.

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Speaker 3: So start thinking about what you can do to add

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Speaker 3: value to to other businesses and other people with your

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Speaker 3: time and your experience. So I think, take action, and

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Speaker 3: then don't don't feel hopeless that you stop earning everything

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Speaker 3: after age sixty five. That's not the case.

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Speaker 2: And lovely, if I may say, don't for don't for

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Speaker 2: prey to scammers because you're desperate. Just very words. Wren

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Speaker 2: Ingram there the certified financial planner at Galileo Capital, sharing

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Speaker 2: some important insights on financial freedom along with how you

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Speaker 2: get there and then how you stay there.

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Speaker 1: The Best of The Money Show on two.

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Speaker 2: Our shape shift to this week Gary Kiriako, the CEO

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Speaker 2: of Marble Hospitality, talking about his career journey in the

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Speaker 2: restaurant industry, but also looking at his experience with business startups,

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Speaker 2: discussing the leadership philosophy he's developed and he's had a

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Speaker 2: very interesting business life.

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Speaker 4: There was something missing in Joe book. I mean we

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Speaker 4: just had our standard restaurants, small formats, no sense of arrival.

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Speaker 4: I always said you know that there's no way for

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Speaker 4: women to go to, you know, to get dressed up

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Speaker 4: and experience something different, you know, at bar, something elegant.

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Speaker 4: And I came back to South Africa. I've got the

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Speaker 4: concept right, Marble was born, but I needed a partner

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Speaker 4: to bring this to life. And one day I went

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Speaker 4: to David Higgs, my business partner. I walked into the

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Speaker 4: Saxon there and I said, David, I have this crazy idea.

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Speaker 4: A large format restaurant, a thousand square meters are on board.

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Speaker 5: He didn't even flinch. You say what I mean and

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Speaker 5: the rest is history.

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Speaker 4: We just created this amazing space that's for everyone, celebrations, birthdays, anniversaries,

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Speaker 4: business travelers, and you know, we were blessed this year.

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Speaker 4: We ten years down the line as Marble Hospitality and

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Speaker 4: Marble that were we started, and you know, we've we've

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Speaker 4: adapted and we've we've grown into different avenues of hospitality.

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Speaker 4: We opened Saint two years later, then Zoo, and then

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Speaker 4: the crazy thing happened called COVID that made us rethink

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Speaker 4: hospitality and that's where the pantry was born.

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Speaker 5: You know, it was through COVID.

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Speaker 4: We got such a fright that we said we were

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Speaker 4: left in the doll drums of nothingness. Basically as as hospitality,

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Speaker 4: people couldn't come to our restaurants. So we thought, like,

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Speaker 4: let's bring hospitality to a different sect.

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Speaker 5: Of the market.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the the garage downstairs close down because

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Speaker 4: it wasn't working, and we thought, look's reinvent what convenience is.

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Speaker 4: And we thought backwards. We thought, you know, let's open

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Speaker 4: a convenience store that sells petrol, not the other way around.

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Speaker 4: And that was us philosophy. And four years down the line,

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Speaker 4: we've got we basically four puntries. Now we're opening out

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Speaker 4: our fourth store tomorrow in Personia, so you know, we

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Speaker 4: we're moving along.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, I mean, I've always thought that it's

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Speaker 2: interesting because joe Burg, you know, the idea of a

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Speaker 2: twenty four hour city, joe Burg isn't that, not yet,

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Speaker 2: but but but a big step towards that are things

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Speaker 2: like the pantry.

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Speaker 4: You'll be surprised our our customers that come through at

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Speaker 4: two o'clock in the morning. And I noticed that just

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Speaker 4: the party people, yeah, the doctors, the people coming from airports,

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Speaker 4: the guys that are going home from late shifts. I mean,

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Speaker 4: the city never sleeps. You know, we think it sleeps

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Speaker 4: because we're sleeping.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 4: But you know when I drive past at two o'clock

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Speaker 4: in the morning just to have a look and see

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Speaker 4: what's happening. That's humming in Rosebank, and sometimes I wonder

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Speaker 4: where do people come from? But the city is alive.

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Speaker 2: I've always thought a business like that at twenty four

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Speaker 2: our business, and now I've worked in a twenty for

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Speaker 2: our business my whole professional life, and there's certain sort

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Speaker 2: of challenges that it brings. You have to have staff

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Speaker 2: all the time for you. It brings I thought two

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Speaker 2: interesting challenges for me. The one is that you have

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Speaker 2: to have the same level of service no matter what

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Speaker 2: time of day it is. You probably can't have an

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Speaker 2: air shift in the B shift. It has to be no,

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Speaker 2: we've got a shifts, so yes, yeah, And you need

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Speaker 2: to make sure that everything that you sell is there

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Speaker 2: all the time, at the right quality.

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Speaker 4: And every time. I mean, if you walk at the

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Speaker 4: pantry two o'clock in the morning or four o'clock in

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Speaker 4: the morning, you will get served. And you know, we

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Speaker 4: have chefs that work night shifts. We have managers that

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Speaker 4: have night chifts that rotate, so there's always someone there

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Speaker 4: looking after you. And I mean that's where hospitality comes,

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Speaker 4: and people have forgotten that no matter what you do,

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Speaker 4: you need a sense of service and hospitality to greet

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Speaker 4: your customers, you know, coming into the stores at that

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Speaker 4: time of the morning.

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Speaker 2: One of the interesting things about it is there's a

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Speaker 2: sort of premium. Now if you look at, for example,

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Speaker 2: what happens in the supermarket sector, Willworth's has I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get very boring for a moment, but they sort

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Speaker 2: of internal shop inflation is about five six percent, shop

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Speaker 2: right is about one and one point two, sometimes below

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Speaker 2: two percent. People go back to will Worsk because they

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Speaker 2: know what they're going to get. Never forget WhatsApp we

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Speaker 2: received by someone saying, yes, I can buy two others

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Speaker 2: for the checkers for the price of one at Willie's,

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Speaker 2: but the one at Willies I know will be ripe

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Speaker 2: and I can eat it. And what you're talking about

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Speaker 2: is what people are prepared to pay for quality and

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Speaker 2: knowing it's a certainty that and you would think, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe Joe Brick doesn't have a market for a ripe

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Speaker 2: ever two thirty in the morning, if you've got the

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Speaker 2: right quality, Kelly that market is there.

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Speaker 4: The market's huge. I mean we you know, Joebik's aspirational.

434
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 4: You know, we've changed. You know, we live we live

435
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 4: in the cloud Instagram and I don't care which LSM

436
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: you come from. You always want to be at the

437
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 4: one better. So you always want to improve yourself. So

438
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 4: you know, that's what the Pantry is. You know, we

439
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 4: we we so we fancy, but we easy. So we're

440
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 4: trying to take that sense of marble and just give

441
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 4: it to everyone. You know, So we want to give

442
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 4: that class and that you know, when you walk in,

443
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 4: you won't to be proud and you want to be private.

444
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 4: You're from Joebick and Pantry is from Joebig, so you

445
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 4: know it's it's it's Pantry's hours.

446
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's what.

447
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: People feel like, John Nathan, I hope you're listening. There's

448
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 2: some other things you did before all of this, and

449
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 2: you you actually ran several SPA supermarkets. That's connected that

450
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: was at the time connected to your family.

451
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 5: Is that right, Yes, that's right.

452
00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 4: In the nineties and two thousands, we were retailers. To

453
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 4: be honest, I got bored of that. There was no

454
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 4: innovation in that sector and I just moved on. I

455
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 4: just went into printing and advertising, and I did so

456
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 4: many things before I got back into hospitality and in

457
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 4: retail again. But I think it taught me a lot

458
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 4: on how to be a retailer and how much retail

459
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 4: has changed. And I think as an entrepreneur, you learn

460
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 4: along and you learn your skill and you will hone

461
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 4: your skills through different businesses.

462
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 5: And that's how Marbile became and came about. It's just.

463
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 4: The life experiences of being in business.

464
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: Your your heritage is Cypriot, I think you said, is

465
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: there and I mean here, And I can think of

466
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 2: examples in other places too. There's a strong sort of

467
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: heritage of entrepreneurship in some families from that island. Is

468
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: it the same for you?

469
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 5: Exactly the same.

470
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 4: I mean my parents or immigrants that came to South

471
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 4: Africa years ago, and you got no choice, then you

472
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 4: just become an entrepreneur. And as kids of immigrants, you

473
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 4: just learn that that's the only.

474
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 5: Choice you have. There is no other choice.

475
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 4: You either go and you become a doctor or a lawyer,

476
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 4: or you study a big common you go into business

477
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 4: and that's your path in life. And I suppose sometimes

478
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: it works you know, and it is hard being entrepreneur.

479
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 4: You know, there's there's no there's no rule book when

480
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 4: you when you start like that, you know you have

481
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 4: to be in the big world of business and and

482
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 4: work it out.

483
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: When you were at school, was that what you were

484
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: you know, was entrepreneurship something you were going to do.

485
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: I call it entrepreneurship, but you know, running your own

486
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: businesses it was in It was.

487
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 5: In that blood. You know.

488
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 4: You grab and you join your dad's business and you

489
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 4: go and try something.

490
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 5: That was how we were brought up. There was no

491
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 5: go work.

492
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 4: For someone and hope for the best.

493
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 2: Several I mean we we we. I've spoken to several

494
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 2: people who started businesses and you know who are sitting

495
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: in the chair you're sitting in now, And some of

496
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: the kind of went the university route, did the becom

497
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: and then worked and then had a flash of insight

498
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: and they thought, I'm going to do this. Some of

499
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: them actually have their first business before they even left school.

500
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 2: Which category do you fit into?

501
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 4: I mean, were you I was selling computers at school,

502
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 4: you know, so I was trying to do something, you know,

503
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 4: and selling hard drives and repairing computers and in standard six.

504
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 5: But you you you just want to go there.

505
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 4: You got that itch insiders to go and and and

506
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 4: create and do and as in my mom has always

507
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 4: been to have fun what I do and if I'm

508
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 4: not having fun, And you know, Supermarkets was when I

509
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 4: decided that this is not this is not for me.

510
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 4: And we were sold out and we left it. And

511
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 4: it took me a few years to just settle and

512
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 4: see what we're going to do. And I'm enjoying myself

513
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 4: now hospitality. You know, I just want to have some

514
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 4: fun and enjoy it. You know, it is nice giving

515
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 4: back in that field.

516
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I can imagine. And I read somewhere that

517
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 2: you and I think you mentioned briefly that you were

518
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 2: in the property business at some point and did that

519
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: lead in some way to you meeting David Higgs.

520
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 4: Yes, so I was involved with Century twenty one South Africa.

521
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: I was a shareholder there and we sold his house,

522
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: of course, through the agency.

523
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 5: And I called.

524
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 4: One of the agents and I got David's number and

525
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 4: I said, can do you have his number on file?

526
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 5: I need it?

527
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 4: So I don't know that we didn't have the Poppy

528
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 4: Act then so I could do that. So I got

529
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 4: his number and I called him and I and it

530
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 4: was a five minute conversation about marble and he.

531
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: Was my partner in a business partner.

532
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: So you you cold called him out of the blue.

533
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 5: Out of the blue. I just said, I just need someone.

534
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 4: And you know, just by speaking to someone you get

535
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 4: a sense of who that person is. And when I

536
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 4: went to the Saxon and I said and opened my

537
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 4: laptop and I said, David, this is the concept I

538
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 4: want to do. And he said, well, I mean we

539
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 4: shook hands and I walked to Art and that how

540
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 4: was That's how the deal was done in cheap five minutes.

541
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: It's quite something. Do you still follow property? I mean

542
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: I think some people I know are fascinated about property,

543
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: and once they're in it, they never stopped thinking about it.

544
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 5: I still do.

545
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 4: We've still got I'm still involved in Century twenty one

546
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 4: in Santin.

547
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 5: You know that's as a shareholder.

548
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 4: I've got some property around in a commercial property, but

549
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 4: you know, you know, as investments, but not really like

550
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 4: I mean when we had the spas then we used

551
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 4: to do the developments and own the shopping centers as well.

552
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 4: So you know, you I've done everything, you know, so

553
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 4: there's been in business and you know, just moving along.

554
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Gary Kiriako. He's the business brains behind

555
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: the Marble Group. He's your shape shifter. Tonight you with

556
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: the money, show the money show shape shifters. Gary Kuriako,

557
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 2: the brains behind Marble, the Marble Group. Yeah, as your

558
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: shape shifter, Gary. I mean, one of the things that

559
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: clearly you have as an entrepreneur is a sense of ambition.

560
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: A lot of people might have started their first restaurants

561
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: is kind of a smallish thing. A thousand square meters.

562
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: That's a big room. I mean, I've been inside. It

563
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: is a very big room. You have to fill it.

564
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: You have to make you have to get you know, turnover,

565
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 2: you have to get people going. You have quite a

566
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: large staff compliment. Those early days were they easy.

567
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 5: It was as simple as everybody rushing in.

568
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: It was a bit more complicated than that.

569
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 4: A little bit more complicated because it was so big.

570
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 4: I mean, the market consensus was, what are you doing? Yeah,

571
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 4: there's a standard formula in restaurants, stick to it. Banks

572
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: used to say, when I went for a loan there,

573
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 4: they said, no, you know, whoever starts a restaurant, you know,

574
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 4: the biggest risk and red flag in our lending criteria.

575
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: So there were a lot of negatives. But you know

576
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 4: when you travel and you've been in business, so you

577
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: get this gut instinct that says, you know what it

578
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 4: feels right, I want to do it. I want to

579
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 4: prove that we can do it. And South Africa was

580
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: right for changing the restaurant landscape.

581
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 5: And I think through.

582
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 4: Marble a lot of our fellow restaurant tears have changed

583
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 4: their way of thinking of how they open restaurants. So

584
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: we've we've elevated the market as well, so we all

585
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: work together and we've improved hospitality and tourism in South Africa.

586
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 4: You know, our clientele at Marble is international and Cape Town,

587
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 4: and you know that will compliment us how well and

588
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 4: how above we are to.

589
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 5: The rest of the world.

590
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 4: You know, they was telling us please open the Marble

591
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 4: in London or Dubai.

592
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 5: And we said no, we had right, were happy, we

593
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 5: are thank you, don't do it.

594
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: The record of the track record of South African companies

595
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: in London is not great, unless, of course, your Nando's,

596
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: But that's not your vibe at all. What is it

597
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: about hospitality that's so attractive.

598
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 4: It's really fun, you know what I mean, it's really rewarding,

599
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: you know, just.

600
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 5: Working with all the all the creative people out.

601
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 4: There, seeing smiles, you know, on kids' faces at the

602
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: pantry when they're having an ice cream, it's really rewarding.

603
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 4: It's it's it's it's not a boring industry. Yeah, you

604
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: know sometimes weple say it's a boring industry.

605
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 5: It's finance. It's this.

606
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 4: This is really exciting. You can create, you can do,

607
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 4: you can change. So you know, we we're very dynamic.

608
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 4: So you know, it's it's like a helicopter goes in

609
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 4: in all directions, and that's what hospitality is.

610
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: Is there a people element to it that attracts you.

611
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean you're dealing with with all our staff,

612
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: all the guests.

613
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 5: That come in.

614
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: You know, like, I'm quite privilege that I don't have

615
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 4: to report to shaholders. I'm the shoulder, and David's a

616
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 4: shelder and mother partner, Dinner's a shoulder. So we just

617
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: have to impress our guests and our staff to make

618
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: things happen, and so it makes it easier for us

619
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 4: just to focus our energy on those two.

620
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: Gary Kuriako there, the CEO of Marble Hospitality, talking about

621
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: his journey and his love for hospitality.

622
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: Seven you'll listening to the money shows the best bits.

623
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: Fighting for Your Consumer writes Your Consumer Ninja Wendy Nola

624
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: this week, it's an astonishing tale about legacy garage cards.

625
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure you don't know anyone who still uses a

626
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: garage card, and yet Standard Bank has been charging people

627
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: one hundred ruand a month for these cards for a

628
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: very long time. Wendy Nola explains the latest.

629
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 6: Hi, Stevenya, that's sort of the point of the whole story.

630
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 6: So back in the day, being before two thousand and nine,

631
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 6: you needed a special garage card a fuel card to

632
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 6: buy fuel on credit. And then after that, after two

633
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 6: thousand and nine, any debit or credit card worked at

634
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 6: the pumps.

635
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 7: So loads of people stopped using them.

636
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 6: But he has the thing many of them are ventured

637
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 6: to say, most of them didn't cancel. And I'm talking

638
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 6: specifically here about Standard Bank garage cards. At that time,

639
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 6: there was no extra fee for the garage card. But

640
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 6: in twenty fifteen, at a time when very you know,

641
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 6: far less people were actually using them, Standard Bank began

642
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 6: charging a fee for secondary credit cards, so garage cards

643
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 6: as well as supplementary cards people got for their sparses

644
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 6: and whatever, to cover, as they put it, the cost

645
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 6: of providing and administrating and maintaining all the value added

646
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 6: services and features associated with the card. Reminders, I said,

647
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 6: many thousands of them were no longer being used at all.

648
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 6: I'm talking specifically about garage cards, And since twenty fifteen,

649
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 6: the garage card feed has escalated. It went from sixty

650
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 6: rand in twenty twenty two to ninety rand the following year,

651
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 6: and then to one hundred rand I think that was

652
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 6: twenty twenty four, And that's equivalent to the monthly fee

653
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 6: levied on the bank's top credit card, which is titanium.

654
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: Sure, okay, but then you would know there was a charge,

655
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: and then at some point, you know, the card would

656
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: expire and you would get a new one. Wouldn't the

657
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: bank sort of tell you're getting a new one.

658
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 6: Well, you think so, because that's what happened with your

659
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 6: ordinary credit card, because they want to tell you how

660
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 6: to get your replacement after five years, because your old

661
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 6: one is now expiring, because they want you to keep spending.

662
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: Right.

663
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 6: But in the case of the garage card. They never

664
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 6: said a word. They told me that they don't inform

665
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 6: card holders about renewals. If the card has been inactive

666
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 6: for three months, it's on the customer to request renewal.

667
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 6: I was told, which many people didn't do because they'd

668
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 6: long forgotten all about them. They weren't the pieces of

669
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 6: plastic point in their wallets and persons anymore. And yes,

670
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 6: the thing, Stephen, this is what I've been on about

671
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 6: with them. On the credit card statement, on your normal

672
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 6: standard bank credit card statement, it will just say service fee,

673
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 6: and that one hundred rand was bundled in with the

674
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 6: fee for the ordinary credit card, right, so it would

675
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 6: just said what it was. No, there was no no line.

676
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 6: It said garage card one hundred rand. And I was like,

677
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 6: if you're not come on, if you're not going to stop,

678
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 6: if you're not going to phone people and say, hey,

679
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 6: you see you haven't used your card for ten years,

680
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 6: at least put it on the statement that they're paying

681
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 6: one hundred rand for the piece of plastic that they're

682
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 6: not using. And they were like, that was August twenty four,

683
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 6: was the first time I asked them. And then they said, oh, yes, no,

684
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 6: well we'll get to that, and then I asked them

685
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 6: four months later. It was oh, it's quite complicated, actually

686
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 6: a lot of hoops to jump through.

687
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 7: We'll do it at the end of quarter one five.

688
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 6: And then I went back to them and I was like, oh,

689
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 6: it's actually quite a technological challenge. And so it went

690
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 6: and I kept people, you know, kept writing to me.

691
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 7: Not a huge deluge, but you know, a.

692
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 6: Steady stream of people writing to say, oh, I found

693
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 6: out by accident when whatever.

694
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 7: I saw your story and wow, I've been paying thousands

695
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 7: for years.

696
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 6: And then they would get maybe fifty percent of three

697
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 6: years fees and told okay, there you go, off you go,

698
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 6: we'll pay you this.

699
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 7: So yeah, should.

700
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it looks it looks frankly deliberate. It looks

701
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: like a cover up in a way. So what's happened now?

702
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 7: Okay, so our last wrote a story about this.

703
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 6: In December, I went, I'd got I've seen another complaint

704
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 6: from Marius and Portuval. His wife discovered they were paying

705
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 6: two hundred both of them met carriage card Stephen. So

706
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 6: they're paying two hundred red between them for cards I'm

707
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 6: used since twenty twelve, so we're talking thirteen years and

708
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 6: they were refunded not thousands, but seven hundred rand because

709
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 6: they were told queries must be within thirty days of

710
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 6: the statement. Okay, so what's changed is I wrote the

711
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 6: normal story saying in December saying we still know answer.

712
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 6: They're still saying it's a technical issue. You what on

713
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 6: earth do they need technical help?

714
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 7: Is they? Is this deliberate? Anyway?

715
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 6: Last week the bank had one of those let's chat

716
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 6: moments and they said, actually, in early twenty twenty five,

717
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 6: a few months that is, after I started badging them

718
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 6: about the issue, they decided to prioritize stopping fees on

719
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 6: unused garage cards.

720
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 7: In May, they acted, and by September of twenty twenty.

721
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 6: Five, fees were stopped for ninety percent of customers in

722
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 6: the cases where they hadn't used their cards for over

723
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 6: a year. They reviewed the legacy products, they told me,

724
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 6: and they saw that boats using it, something that I

725
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 6: could have told them, and so then they acted in

726
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 6: customer's best interests, even though the contracts were still valid

727
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 6: because these people hadn't actually canceled them. So there's ten

728
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 6: percent left and they either have balances that they need

729
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 6: to pay or they actually are still using the.

730
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 5: Cards this last month.

731
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 7: No. Well, I said to them, well, why didn't you

732
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 7: tell me this?

733
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 6: If you told me this in December, that column would

734
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 6: have looked a bit different.

735
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 7: And they said, well, you know, time of year.

736
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 6: There were stand instant I was asking about, you know,

737
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 6: why aren't you putting this on the statements, which incidentally

738
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 6: they said they're still going to do where they didn't

739
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 6: see the big picture picture and say well, actually, you

740
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 6: know we've done something better.

741
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 7: We've actually stopped. No one thought to tell me that.

742
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 7: But anyway, the main thing is it's happened.

743
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 6: And there was millions every month in an you know,

744
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 6: fees that were for nothing. So for me, it's a

745
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 6: pretty big deal and I'm really happy that it's finally happened.

746
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 2: Okay, so balance me here. I just want to make

747
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 2: sure I have this right. People stopped using garage cards

748
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 2: right now. Remember that when that happened and everybody could

749
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: use their credit card, Standard Bank kept charging people one

750
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: hundred rand for a month for cards they could see

751
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: were not being used, and then they failed to remind

752
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: those people that they had them at the time they

753
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: would have normally reminded them in the past. I mean

754
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: I hate to be this guy, but that really does

755
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: look like a cover up to me. And they made

756
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 2: a fortune in the process.

757
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 7: They did.

758
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 6: They did your words, but yes, and I couldn't believe

759
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 6: how they kept kicking the can down the road and

760
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 6: saying it was so difficult to put it on the statement.

761
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 7: Maybe it was, and it would have been lovely if

762
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 7: they'd said to me.

763
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 6: Sometime last year when they decided, maybe we should look

764
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 6: at this, maybe this isn't okay. They didn't tell me

765
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 6: until last week that that's what it happened, and anyway,

766
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 6: it's now stopped. But yeah, it was not a good loque.

767
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: No, Like Wendy Noler, our consumer Ninja there highlighting the

768
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: fight for your consumer rights and just looking at this

769
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: long running battle over legacy garage cards.

770
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 7: Seven notes.

771
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: The best of the Money Show from this week.

772
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: This week is How I Make My Money guest Amber Penny,

773
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 2: the co founder and chief retail officer at Farah, talking

774
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: about how she came up with the idea, the people

775
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: she's worked with, and how Farah was born from this

776
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: idea of identifying opportunity in the global fashion wastage area.

777
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: As a result, you're starting to see real changes, someone's

778
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: really spotted a gap.

779
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 8: So we look to buy the overstock from brands kind

780
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 8: of globally and locally, so a little bit of a

781
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 8: distributed model there, and we essentially buy their overstock or

782
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 8: the product that's you know, from last season or often

783
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 8: actually from the current season that hasn't sold yet, so

784
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 8: it's still you know, great, a brand new stock. But

785
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 8: of course, with this you know, the rise and the

786
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 8: global overstock crisis, brands are really really in trouble with

787
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 8: the overproduction and the over manufacturing of garments to keep

788
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 8: up with fast fashion trends. And so we come in

789
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 8: and offer them a you know, kind of cost price

790
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 8: for the good cover their base and obviously then allows

791
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 8: us to pass that serving onto the customer. So we

792
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 8: essentially import or kind of as I said, purchased locally

793
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 8: from brands and we redistributed through our stores at an

794
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 8: out left price. So kind of global brands like Zara,

795
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 8: a lot of intertext brands, Zara Pullinbert Berschker, so those

796
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 8: European brands we struggle to get you at an accessable price.

797
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 8: And then also top sports brands, you know, like Adidas,

798
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 8: et cetera, et cetera, and we essentially sell that through

799
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 8: our stores at an outlet price.

800
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: I have so many questions about this business model, and

801
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: my first is why is there an overstock crisis?

802
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 5: Is it just because they Is it because.

803
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: They price themselves out of the market, because too many

804
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 2: of us are feeling that that material and going no,

805
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 2: but not a chance?

806
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 8: No, I mean yes. But also to be honest with you,

807
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 8: I mean, if you think about fast fashion, right, so

808
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 8: think about the way that trends are moving through the

809
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 8: world at the moment. So I mean you think about

810
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 8: the most recent trends of you know, those kind of

811
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 8: pump or ballet slippers for women. I mean those have

812
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 8: been in for a season and they already move out

813
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 8: in terms of trends. And so what these big post

814
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 8: fashion retailers are doing is they are having to manufacture

815
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 8: goods at such a large scale in terms of quantity

816
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 8: to be able to distribute enough product but keep up

817
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 8: with a trend that is only available for a season.

818
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 8: And so if you aren't manufacturing at a rapid speed

819
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 8: and distributing enough product, you losing out. But then on

820
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 8: the flip side, there's obviously a huge amount that is

821
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 8: over manufactured and when the trend goes out of season,

822
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 8: they left with a bunch of stock that is you know,

823
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 8: so now, for example, the stuff that they haven't sold

824
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 8: of the pump flats, those are brand new, beautiful garments,

825
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 8: so Zara pump flats that would have absolutely flown in

826
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 8: the previous season because they were in trend. Now they're

827
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 8: sick with a huge amount of overstock and they can't

828
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 8: do anything with it, so the brand loses money as

829
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 8: well as you know, a lot of the problem with

830
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 8: these past fashioned brands is that they end up incinerating

831
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 8: the stock or sending it to the landfills, and so

832
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 8: instead of them doing that and using money after the

833
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 8: garments an extra life cycle and a market that probably

834
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 8: couldn't afford the full price. So we're giving people accessibility

835
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 8: to these global brands, but it's also product that would

836
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 8: have just been gone or gone to complete waste. So

837
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 8: it's crazy. And obviously with the rise of e commerce

838
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 8: as well, so if you imagine, you know, there's such

839
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 8: a trend overseas of buying for example, online, you buy

840
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 8: a jersey that is a medium and at large, and

841
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 8: you because you want to try it on, but it's

842
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 8: the same jersey. So you buy the jersey, you try

843
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 8: both on, and you return the one. Often that return

844
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 8: garnment goes into the overstock tile, so operationally to put

845
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 8: that back into the kind of mainstream stock tile is

846
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 8: super tricky. And so these the kind of return stock

847
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 8: and overstock just grows and grows and grows, and so

848
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 8: you know, as this e commerce trend is growing, so

849
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 8: is overstock. So those two things combined it's just, let

850
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 8: you know, leading us into the fashion industry being a huge,

851
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 8: huge problem for the environment.

852
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: Amber. I mean to hear you describe this industry as

853
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: to remind me of a very old American expression that's

854
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: a heck of a way to run a railroad. In

855
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: other words, it's all a bit mad. I'm slightly surprised

856
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 2: in a way that these chains haven't found a way

857
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: to sell it themselves. And I realized that you've provided

858
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: that solution for them and for your end customers. But

859
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: I would have thought that, you know, they would just have,

860
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: you know, because they're all owned half of them are

861
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: owned by multinationals. Anyway, they will just sort of send

862
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: it down the chain, down their own chain rather than selling.

863
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 5: It to you.

864
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 8: Yes, although I think you know, the problem with that is,

865
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 8: so there's there are also other other stuff kind of

866
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 8: distributors global So obviously you know the likes of tkmapps,

867
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 8: TJX in the US, and then there's obviously their own

868
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 8: sort of branded artlets. But again you can only reduce

869
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 8: the price so much in your own artlet before you

870
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 8: start kind of you know, absolutely cannibalizing your own markets.

871
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 8: So if there's a distribution channel that isn't within your

872
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 8: own market, So for example, you know, Zaro Global would

873
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 8: much rather solve their product through our markets where they

874
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 8: feel it you know, quite a fresh market that probably

875
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 8: couldn't afford a large percentage of the stock in itself,

876
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 8: rather than send it to the UK where a huge

877
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 8: percentage of that market is buying Zara full price as

878
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 8: it is, So it's sort of cannibalizing their own their

879
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 8: own market that side. So I think that that new

880
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 8: channel of distribution is definitely quite a big selling point

881
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 8: for US and seemingly has landed quite well with the

882
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 8: brand in terms of being able to tap into a

883
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 8: market that they feel they haven't really managed to crack.

884
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: The full uh to sort of spot a gap like this,

885
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: I mean, have you described as co founders. So I

886
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 2: presume there's another co founder or co founders. How would you,

887
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: I mean, how would someone even know that this is

888
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: all happening. You would have to have some experience, and

889
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: I suppose key to that then is the relationship with

890
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: the person you're buying the stuff from.

891
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 8: Yes, yes, totally. And I think it was quite had

892
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 8: a crazy journey in the way that Sarah started. I mean,

893
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 8: so my co founder David Thorne, I have really had

894
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 8: been plugged into the kind of you know, global of

895
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 8: stock crisis for a while, and I think we had

896
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 8: been hearing of these companies globally that had tried to

897
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 8: solve this again and again and again and failed. And

898
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 8: I think we were at the time raising capital for

899
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 8: a different business, and I think, you know, through the

900
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 8: network of our investors as well as just kind of

901
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 8: conversations with people in the industry, we really started to

902
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 8: identify a gap where the distribution and a new channel

903
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 8: through the use of a lot of technology as well,

904
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 8: is very kind of optimal for this model. And so

905
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 8: I think it was really through a series of conversations

906
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 8: and just like taking the plunge, I mean, I can't

907
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 8: say it was a light bulb moment. I think, you know,

908
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 8: it was multiple conversations digging into different industries, understanding, you know,

909
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 8: why the brands globally had failed previously, how we can

910
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 8: do things differently, and then rarely working on those relationships

911
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 8: in terms of bringing on the right people. So since

912
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 8: it's in section in twenty twenty, I want to say

913
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty two feels like a lifetime. But we've

914
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 8: brought on two other co founders, So William mccaren from

915
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 8: the UK and then a guy called Chris mccanner who

916
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 8: was at Superbolous before us, and he's really kind of yeah,

917
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 8: just shaped the company in a in a way with

918
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 8: a lot of retail experience, and so I think between

919
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 8: the four of us, you know, Dave and I being

920
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 8: predominantly from a startup background, and then Will and Chris

921
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 8: having a little bit more retail experience. Will had previously

922
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 8: started a second hand clothing business in Kenya, and so

923
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 8: there was a lot of expertise that kind of came

924
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 8: together to the table, and then through investor relations, really

925
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 8: just opened up a world of supply and I think,

926
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 8: you know, initially obviously conversations are wholesalers and were third parties.

927
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 8: And I think the more we started to dig, the

928
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 8: more we realized the demand is direct from the brand

929
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 8: and we can actually kind of cut out that middleman.

930
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 8: And and now you know, a huge percentage of our

931
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 8: stock it comes direct from the brand themselves. So really

932
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 8: kind of forming those relationships to figure out how this

933
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 8: can be a mutually beneficial partnership for their man, for

934
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 8: us and for our customers.

935
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: Of course, there's certain things so you kind of need

936
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 2: to make both ends work. So you need to make

937
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: sure that you get the product that you need. Okay,

938
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: spotted the gap there, but you also need to have

939
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: places where you can sell it here, and you would

940
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: have had to set that up, you would have needed

941
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: capital to do that, you would have had to know

942
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: where to do it, and that can be quite interesting.

943
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, I don't know if Sentence City's

944
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: the right place for a thing like this. Maybe it is,

945
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 2: I have no idea.

946
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 5: What was that like?

947
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: Because you can't just put a store like this selling

948
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: originally high end but now at a better price stuff everywhere.

949
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: You've got to be quite strategic about things like that.

950
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, totally, And I think you know, we have

951
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 8: to also be careful as to where we operate, so

952
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 8: we don't you know, step on chowders with our with

953
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 8: our local partners. I think we really are about making this,

954
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 8: as you said, you know, beneficial for all parties, and

955
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 8: so we are very cautious. And we've obviously got kind

956
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 8: of very good relationships with our local distributors and good

957
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 8: agreements as to where we can and can't operate, and

958
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 8: so we really are kind of cautious with that. I

959
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 8: think the honestly one of the biggest challenges and big

960
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 8: learnings was figuring out how to set up these kind

961
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 8: of locations at scale because essentially, to give you an

962
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 8: overview of the challenge, I mean, the nature of the

963
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 8: inventory is largely one of the kind. So you aren't

964
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 8: bringing in an item that has skew depth, So you

965
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 8: don't have size and curves of one item, right, So

966
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 8: you're bringing in maybe as our jersey that's medium, but

967
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 8: it might be the only one of that jersey. And

968
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 8: so if you imagine that in a store space, it's

969
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 8: quite tricky because every store location has different inventory. Firstly, secondly,

970
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 8: you know, finding the right the exact right customer probe

971
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 8: far for us when I think our product largely appeals

972
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 8: to a big kind of percentage of the population, as

973
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 8: well as trying to appease a very FoST rollout that's

974
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 8: sort of been you know, agreed upon with our investors.

975
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 8: But also you know, internally we've got a very sort

976
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 8: of aggressive growth plan. So trying to marry all of

977
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 8: those things while you know, trying to find the right

978
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 8: locations has been honestly, really really challenging. I think we've

979
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 8: made a lot of mistakes along the way, and I

980
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 8: think rarely where we're at now is we've opened. I mean,

981
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 8: we started twenty twenty four with no twenty twenty five

982
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 8: with four stores. So last year we started with four stores,

983
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 8: we ended with eighteen. So just in last year we

984
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 8: opened twelve stores. So I mean someone who were opening

985
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 8: four stalls at a time. So with that, I mean

986
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 8: you can imagine only having operated for a year before that.

987
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 8: We rarely had to sprint before we could walk. So

988
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 8: I mean we made a lot of erarors. We learned

989
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 8: a last STI where the prime locations are, and I

990
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 8: think we've had enough distribution where we can see exactly

991
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 8: where the sweet spot is, so I think now we've

992
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 8: got a really good kind of concept of the locations

993
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 8: we're looking for, and we've been lucky in the sense

994
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 8: of they have started to really kind of open up

995
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 8: for us. And I think we're now building the right

996
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 8: kind of partnerships with the landlords and et cetera. But honestly,

997
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 8: the beginning was just a lot of trial and error

998
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 8: and a lot of talking to network and figuring out

999
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 8: what might work and what might not. But again, you know,

1000
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 8: when you're moving this fast, it really is largely trial

1001
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 8: and error and going with your guts.

1002
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: And I mean you also need to you need to

1003
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 2: sort of educate the customer. I suppose that this kind

1004
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: of thing is available, So you're advertising the way you

1005
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 2: tell people that you can't just say best brands are

1006
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: cheapest prices. It's going to maybe be a little bit

1007
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 2: more almost subversive, is that the right word. You don't

1008
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 2: want to irritate the big brands.

1009
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 8: No, we actually haven't found too much red tape in

1010
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 8: terms of the market. I mean, there is some sort

1011
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 8: of very tepe obviously with global partners, and we need

1012
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 8: to be we need to, you know, stick to certain

1013
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 8: kind of agreements and things. But I would say, actually,

1014
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 8: you know what we found as a brand, And I

1015
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 8: suppose this also comes from who we have internally. We

1016
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 8: rarely do stand for and want to stand for transparency

1017
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 8: and authenticity. And I think something that we've seen fashion

1018
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 8: brands and where we've seen fashion brands go wrong is

1019
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 8: they're highly curated. You don't rarely understand you know, what's

1020
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 8: under the rug if you lift it up, like what

1021
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 8: is their manufacturing process, what materials are they using. I

1022
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 8: think there's a lot of there's a lot of mistrust

1023
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 8: that's developed in the fashion industry, and so for us,

1024
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 8: we really want to build a brand where people can

1025
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 8: ask all the questions they want. So, you know, initially,

1026
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 8: I think it's a little bit better now because we've

1027
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 8: got a lot of like, you know, more stores. But

1028
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 8: in the beginning, you can imagine someone's walking into Promenade

1029
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 8: more and seeing a Zara puffa jacket for four hundred

1030
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 8: brand and they're going, no, no, it doesn't seem legitimate,

1031
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 8: Like where these guys getting their products. I've never seen

1032
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 8: this store before. Is it real? Is it not? There

1033
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 8: was a lot of doubts in the beginning, and I

1034
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 8: think through consistent communication and also just through growth and

1035
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,439
Speaker 8: kind of you know, organically showing people, you know, ask

1036
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 8: the questions, we can tell you the detail, like there's

1037
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 8: there's nothing to hide here. I think that's rarely helped

1038
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 8: with the word of mouth, and I think has rarely

1039
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 8: helped people actually connect with the brand and feel like

1040
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 8: they're almost building it alongside us. I mean, it's really cool,

1041
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 8: like our social media and we always chuckle internally because

1042
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 8: our social media is just filled with d ms of

1043
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 8: like suggestions on how to run our own so it's

1044
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 8: like and not necessarily like returns policies, but like, hey, guys,

1045
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 8: I raally think you should try to get this brand

1046
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 8: or like, you know, it just feels like customers because

1047
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 8: we also use customers and a lot of our our

1048
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 8: marketing content.

1049
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 4: I think they.

1050
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,959
Speaker 8: Feel almost like they work for fair, like they're part

1051
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 8: of us building this company, like they've seen us from

1052
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 8: one store to eighteen, and so there is this close relationship,

1053
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 8: and I think that gets fostered more transparent we are

1054
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 8: about what we do, and I think that's really the

1055
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 8: thesis of our marketing and our advertisings, just being as

1056
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 8: explicit as we can be so that people don't don't

1057
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 8: have this kind of doubt.

1058
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: In the brand, andber Penny there, the co founder and

1059
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 2: chief retail officer at Farah, just explaining to you how

1060
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: she spotted a gap and what she's been able to

1061
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 2: do with it. You've been listening to the bespits of

1062
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: The Money Show. A digestive just some of the most

1063
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 2: important thoughts from the show this week. If you'd like

1064
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 2: to hear more, please go to our website or your

1065
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 2: podcast app and search for The Money Show. Thanks for

1066
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: being with us this week. We're back with you again

1067
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: on Monday at six o'clock. Have a good weekend.