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Speaker 1: There was a media release last week from somebody in

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Speaker 1: the DA welcoming the commitment from the Public Affairs Public

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Speaker 1: Works Minister Dean Macpherson the Department of what's the full title,

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Speaker 1: it is the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure to

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Speaker 1: release Defense Force land within the broader Cape Town area

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Speaker 1: for housing. And I'm delighted that this afternoon the Minister

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Speaker 1: is able to join us. Dean A very good afternoon,

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Speaker 1: Hi John, you and your listeners. It's a laudable impulse.

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Speaker 1: But how difficult is it going to be to turn

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Speaker 1: the intention into practice to get Wingfield, Youngsfield Aster Plot

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Speaker 1: set aside, or at least parts of them set aside

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Speaker 1: for housing, social housing, other kinds of housing.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think what we've been clear on, John, is

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Speaker 2: that two things cannot remain through and one of those

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Speaker 2: is that we have these vast spalling tracts of land,

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Speaker 2: particularly a wing Siealed and Young Stills, that are not

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Speaker 2: being used to any great degree by the South African

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Speaker 2: action of Defense Force. And then people are living in

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Speaker 2: informal settlements along the end too, because we don't have

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Speaker 2: land to build mixed development houses. So we have to

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Speaker 2: say that something has to be done, and if we

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Speaker 2: want to deal with the housing crisis and of countaries,

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Speaker 2: and if we want to create liverable human settlements at

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Speaker 2: opposed to economic opportunities, then we are going to have

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Speaker 2: to unlock this land. So we have gone on records

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Speaker 2: to say that this has been spoken about in government

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Speaker 2: and the various ministers from various political parties, but there's

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Speaker 2: there's bad agreement that this must be done. It just

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Speaker 2: has never got done. And so we are currently formalizing

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Speaker 2: our our AMINST discussion with the pallactic National Defense Boards

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Speaker 2: using the government is Movable as Management Acts or known

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Speaker 2: as GUYAMA to declare those pieces of land as surplus

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Speaker 2: to their need so that we can then unlock it

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Speaker 2: in various shapes and forms with where the vet with

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Speaker 2: the local municipalities, the provincial government through national government.

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Speaker 1: Did I I have no idea how much military activity

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Speaker 1: is still being done on Wingsfield, Young'sfield, Wingfield, not Wingsfield, Wingfield,

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Speaker 1: young Field and at Plant and I think there are

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Speaker 1: a couple of squadron still based today State Plant. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, if have you had any discussions with the

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Speaker 1: s A and d AIR for I don't know whether

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Speaker 1: you have this with the hierarchy of the s A

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Speaker 1: and air for whether you have it with the Minister

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Speaker 1: of Defense. Have there been any conversations, how are they

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Speaker 1: going if they have started.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me say this that we are not obviously

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Speaker 2: interested in as a plot. That is an active air

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Speaker 2: force base and the other two are used, you know,

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Speaker 2: for other technical sort of facilities for the defense wars.

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Speaker 2: You know, John, there are five military bases within the

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Speaker 2: city of Cape Plants. It must be the only city

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Speaker 2: in the world that has five hundred tary bases in

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Speaker 2: and so you know clearly there has to be a

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Speaker 2: rationalization of those if we want to deal with the

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Speaker 2: housing problem at least in the city of care Time

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Speaker 2: and in other places. We're also looking at military land

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Speaker 2: in the northern Victoria to do the same that is

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Speaker 2: not being utilized. We understand that the SAMF has has

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Speaker 2: financial processes and we think the people are also good ways.

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Speaker 2: And of course we do these through structured discussion and

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Speaker 2: we do these two appropriate channels. As I said, this

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Speaker 2: is not a new conversation and previous ministers have had

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Speaker 2: these discussions. Previous ministers made these pronouncements, but they're not

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Speaker 2: being able to get them across the line, we want

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Speaker 2: to change that trajectory so that we can use public

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Speaker 2: land for public work. Just as an example, we think

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Speaker 2: between those two pieces of land there's footy thousand housing

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Speaker 2: opportunities just on those two Now, you know, if the

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Speaker 2: debate is around keeping unused military land or creating footy

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Speaker 2: thousand housing opportunities, I think that's an easy decisions for

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Speaker 2: government to make. And so I have a meeting with

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Speaker 2: also the Minister of Human Settlements in the next two weeks.

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Speaker 2: Just also feruenced one of those discussions, and we look

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Speaker 2: forward to having all of government approach to finalize this matter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you mentioned that this has been talked about

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Speaker 1: in government for a while, and in researching for this interview,

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Speaker 1: I came across a speech made by Patricia de Luhl

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Speaker 1: when she took the portfolio that you now occupy in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and she said then that this was going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the most urgent things she was

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Speaker 1: going to do as the Minister of DPIW. And here

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Speaker 1: we are seven years later and we have the beginning

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Speaker 1: of another process. And I mean, is there the appetite

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Speaker 1: in the rest of government outside of you and your

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Speaker 1: party to make this happen in a smooth and not

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Speaker 1: obstacle put in the way kind of manner.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing and the first problem

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Speaker 2: is making this a political issue. This is not a

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Speaker 2: political issue. This is a a social issue in an

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Speaker 2: economic issue that needs to be resolved. We also know

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Speaker 2: that the operations of Lintellers pilots in the new Human

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Speaker 2: Settlement Rental Draft, which in fact what it does John

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Speaker 2: seber Good system is that it under rise section and

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Speaker 2: a half thousand rands fer months of rent to payment

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Speaker 2: to the private sector to develop mixed income housing. And

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Speaker 2: this is a pilot project that we are looking at

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Speaker 2: with operational for wind Lella. So this is beyond just

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Speaker 2: what the eMac person or the DA thing this is.

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Speaker 2: You know, as I said, it's an economic question, it's

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Speaker 2: a it's an access to human settlements question. And I

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Speaker 2: think that the response that I've received so far, so

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Speaker 2: the support that I've received so far, really indicates that

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Speaker 2: I think that people get as an answer to a

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Speaker 2: growing problem in South Africa, which is a lack of

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Speaker 2: opportunities and lack of access to housing across the country.

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Speaker 1: I know that this is how long is a piece

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Speaker 1: of string kind of question, but I'm going to put

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Speaker 1: it anyway to hear what you say in answer, how

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Speaker 1: do you see the process unfolding in terms of timeline

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Speaker 1: Theoretically all things going right, which they never do when

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Speaker 1: the land has been transferred and ground is being broken

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Speaker 1: to build houses.

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Speaker 2: On look, I tend to be an optimist, and that

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Speaker 2: may be one of my weak points being encoverment that

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Speaker 2: you know we have, we started that process, We've made

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Speaker 2: the pronouncement, you're currently dealing with the legal issues around it.

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Speaker 2: We have had a really discussions were with ov on

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Speaker 2: this issue. We're having a discussion of the Minister and

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Speaker 2: Settlement and who's into pilot this on the suspendence of April,

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Speaker 2: so I think that we are in the current policy

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Speaker 2: shase around around this particular goings. I would like to have,

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Speaker 2: you know, the beginning of April tomorrow, and I don't

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Speaker 2: want to make an April school of myself, but I

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Speaker 2: would like to try and see some compete policy direction

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Speaker 2: and proclamation by the end of the year if possible,

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Speaker 2: so that we can then start working with the private

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Speaker 2: sector and how to create these mixed development opportunities and

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Speaker 2: start actually putting together a timeline of construction. If you

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Speaker 2: actually may have seen, John that we have already created

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Speaker 2: some renders of what those two pieces of land look like.

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Speaker 2: So our ambition at the time, and we want to

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Speaker 2: match that with results.

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Speaker 1: Dean Macpherson, thank you very much for talking to us

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Speaker 1: this afternoon. The Minister of Public Works and Infrastructure