WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Armand Hough – The Human Narrative 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.080 Welcome back, and I'm so so looking forward to this 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.920 next interview because not only is my guest a dear friend, 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.960 he's also I think, in my opinion, the most talented 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.840 photographer in South Africa. He has I think around forty 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:18.040 thousand followers on Instagram, including some very high profile people, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:24.720 and he tells the most incredible stories using his pictures 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.000 as a medium. So if you don't follow the human's 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.400 narrative on Instagram, do yourself a favor, look it up 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.600 and follow him today. His name is Armand Haw and 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.120 he is here in studio with me with his beautiful 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.159 wife Laura, and it's a great pleasure to say good 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.360 morning and welcome to weekend breakfast a mount good grief. 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:42.720 Amy. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.160 Also, this is hectic listening through listening to my voice 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.800 through the head voice. This is the first time live 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:55.160 on radio. Yeah, I think I did have a live 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.840 on Instagram once but I accidentally press that button. 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.160 Thank you very much for the reduction. Is it was? 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:03.160 It was fantastic. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:04.480 Mind. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.400 You're currently working as a as a photographer with Independent Media. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.800 You also post a lot on your own social media 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.399 and relay some of the stories and experiences that you 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.679 have out in the field, which I think is what 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:22.160 draws so many people to you, is that you we 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.160 almost feel like we know you and get to share 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:30.280 some of your experiences. What inspired you to enter this path? 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.679 I always loved the medium of photography for four years 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:38.800 growing up, and I was one of those kids that 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.120 never had any idea what to do with my life. 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.280 I didn't want to go and sit in the office. 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:50.160 And I also I found school very difficult. I didn't 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:55.120 I wasn't a fantastic performer in school, so so slowly 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.200 but surely I gravitated towards the creative industries. I did 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.440 not know what exactly, but something maybe acting or something 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.360 like that, and photography came natural to me. 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.200 But I think the struggle was. 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.440 Cameras, which is very expensive, and I saw that as 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.000 a as a mental block of how am I able 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.480 to produce pictures without any cameras? And slowly but surely 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.360 I found little ways and saved up for cameras and 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:24.880 so forth. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:26.120 And I think my. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:31.880 First, my first official job as a junior photographer was 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.680 in the Middle East and the first day I arrived, 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:39.000 these guys gave me a duffel bag with two cameras, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.240 and three lenses, and that was when it all kind 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.480 of like became realistic to me, like, okay, cool, there 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.160 is other ways to do this, and if you're shooting 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.040 for an agency or a company, then they should provide 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.280 the cameras, basically, and I think that's when things started 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.680 becoming a little bit more possible, and from then on 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:58.919 it was just full steam ahead. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.119 To tell our listeners a little bit about the experience 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:04.799 of being a photographer in the Middle. 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:11.919 East, it was interesting. The majority was was commercial jobs, 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:17.280 fashion photography, advertisement photography, and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.799 being behind the cameras, but there was something that really 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.920 still wanted me to do, realistic images, like storytelling images. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.760 Photojournalism was always the end, the endpoint for me where 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.560 I wanted to end up. But photojournalism is an extremely 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.960 difficult genre of photography to get into, and it's also 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:42.040 the one that pays the least unfortunately. But if you know, 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.080 if you want to do something, then there's nothing can 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.520 stop you to do that. So so I gravitate to 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:54.280 gravitated towards photojournalism quite a lot. And in the country 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:59.800 that I was in the Kingdom of Bahrain, we've felt 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:05.240 that the waves of violence and the waves of protest 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.320 from the Arab spring that started in two thousand and ten, 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.280 I believe Egypt, Syria, Libya, and when it came to 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:18.400 the country where I was in Bahrain, it was wild. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:26.040 There was masses and masses of people passed away by 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.279 the government forces and so forth. And I was in 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.480 a position, I don't want to say luckily, but I 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.400 was in a position with cameras and I started covering 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:38.679 this conflict and I found it interesting. I found it sad, 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:43.839 I found it, I felt alive doing it. And that's 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.720 when something clicked in my brain of like, this is 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.279 the Gendre photography that I need to stick with because 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.240 this is a storytelling situation. 0:04:54.640 --> 0:05:00.640 But what's it like to witness suffering and violence and 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:06.679 and still be having to perform your job and take pictures. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.200 I mean, I was very lucky that I was guided 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:16.680 by a photographer, my mentor at that stage, Australian photographer 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:21.120 called full Weymouth, and he saw that I was pretty young. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.240 I was about twenty five at that stage, and he 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.920 saw that. He told me that this is I'm way 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.919 too young to do this, and he's experienced some conflict 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.080 photography and war photography in his life, and he told 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.440 me that it's going to mess you up. So if 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.599 you want to do this, then there's a few things 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.479 that you need to remember, and one is that you 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.720 are not the victim. You are doing a job and 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.640 you are portraying and telling the story of the victims. 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:48.800 And if you. 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:56.960 Lose a I'm can I say if you can't do 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.200 your job, then you have no right to be there. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.440 If you can't handle it and you sit in the 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.479 corner and cry, then you're helping absolutely nobody. And there's 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.000 people that's actually relying on you to tell their story 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.240 at that stage, So suck it up and do your job. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.600 So it was a harsh lesson, but very very important. 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.200 And what you said that you're not the victim, you're 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:27.120 telling the victim's story made so much sense. So that's 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.040 the kind of like narrative that you need to tell 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:33.080 yourself if you're covering violent stories or the stories of 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.480 people passing away and stories of trauma, is that it's 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.680 not you that's going through this. Is it is the 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:42.640 people that's going through this, and you are just there 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.080 shining a light on them, telling their story. So that's 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.800 it almost becomes easier to to to go through that process. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:52.520 Weren't you scared? 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:53.080 Yes? 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.359 Absolutely, I mean like being scared is an emotion that 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.159 saves you. That saved my life many at times, because 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.720 that's when everything in your body tells you that you 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.480 are in a dangerous situation and you need to pull back. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:09.240 Then you need to. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.440 Duck and cover, go behind the police lines, like we'll 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.760 run away from the police sometimes in situations. 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.120 My guest is Amant Haw. He's known as the Humans 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.920 Narrative on Instagram. The phenomenal photojournalist. Would encourage you to 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:22.520 all follow him and if you want to ask him 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.800 any questions about his experience, you're welcome to send them 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.320 to us now one seven two five six seven one 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.720 five six seven. So from from the Middle East where 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:32.880 to next? 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.800 I covered the conflict for about a year, year and 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.559 a half, almost two years in Bahrain, and I worked 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:48.440 with CNN at that stage Sky News. But as most 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:53.160 conflicts in the world, and as most situations, it fizzles down, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.720 and I was I felt pretty much stuck there at 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.760 that stage, and then I had the opportuit unity of 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.400 one of the people at Sky News contacted me and said, listener, 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.760 what's your plan because you're not you're not really well. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.920 They weren't buying any pictures of that stage, so so 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:13.920 he was a little bit worried about, like what what's 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:19.000 the situation going like? And and and he said to me, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.559 would you like to go and study in your field 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.880 of photojournalism? And I jumped to the opportunity and said yes. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.880 So through a lot of contacts and emails and so forth, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.720 I had the opportunity to go and study for a 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.880 master's degree in photojournalism at the best university in the 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:46.040 world that gives photojournalism courses in in in London. And 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.800 it was an absolutely phenomenal year of just soaking up 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:57.880 the great photojournalists books and lessons and courses and it 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:58.679 was it was great. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.920 And the people that that's that heed with me as well. 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:05.480 It's still lifelong friends that scattered through about thirty countries 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.600 in the world, and we all keep in contact about 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.960 like not just birthdays, but like, yeah, you know, there's 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:12.959 there's two of my friends in Kenya at the moment. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.600 There's there's there's people in Palestine at the moment. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.960 There's people everywhere. 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.400 I mean, like America at the moment is crazy, and 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.360 I've got three friends over there covering the protests and 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.480 the riots and stuff, so so we all keep in 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.000 contact and share information. 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.800 And then after studying and doing that course, did you 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:38.199 then come back to South Africa? 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:44.080 I came back to South Africa after studies and felt 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:49.400 a little bit lost over here. I started dating this 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.760 beautiful girl at that stage, and then she ghosted me 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:54.160 for quite a long time. 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:56.880 Luckily we're married now. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.760 But but yeah, I started. I think I did a 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.160 few months at Media twenty four at the Burger as 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:13.439 a freelancer, and then I moved towards the Cape Times. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.840 And I think the first story that I that that 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.200 I think that made an impact in my career in 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:25.400 South Africa here was. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:28.040 There was. 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.880 The opening of the IDZ at the Industrial Development Zone 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.160 in Saltdana, where Jacob Zuma was still the president at 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:42.480 that stage and the Premier Helen Ziller was going to 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:47.040 open officially this situation. And when we arrived in Saldana, 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.000 all you know, it was just like A and C 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.520 flags everywhere and it was very much like, okay, well 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.520 this is a political thing, not a provincial thing. And 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.760 I went into this tent and was there was like 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:09.000 thousands of people there and premiere Helen Zilla was saying 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.880 some words on the stage and then she got. 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.959 Booed off stage basically by the. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:19.719 Crowd, and then President Jacob Zuma stood up and they 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:25.040 had this finger pointing match on stage and almost like 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.000 the photos looks like they are actually going head to head. 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:33.640 And I think I was luckily enough to be prepared 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:35.520 at that stage and I took those photos of them 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.800 both with their fingers in each other's face and stuff, 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.440 and that the next day that was on each front 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.320 page of independent media from like The Star, the Victorian News, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.040 the Cape Times, the Cape August. So that was when 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.680 I realized, like, okay, cool, I'm in the South African 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:53.959 media industry and I'm here to stay. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.840 And what keeps you here? Because as you said, I 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.880 mean you're some of your peers from studying are all 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.880 over the world. What keeps you in capes on this? 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.120 I felt in the Middle East when I was covering 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.599 the conflict over there, I felt a little bit of 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.680 a disconnect, which emotionally actually saved me a few times, 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:21.080 because that was it's not my people. And in South 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.840 Africa now this is these are my people. This is 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:30.760 my neighbors, my brothers, my sisters. I feel so African 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.959 that this is where I would love to stay. And 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.040 I think this is the most impact that I can 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.520 make in life is here, not just in Cape On, 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.000 but in South Africa, in Africa. So definitely, the people. 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:45.200 Keep me here. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.920 And I think that connection really is evident in your 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.600 page and in your following. I mean, I've been out 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.480 with you when people have complete strangers have come up 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.959 and said, oh my gosh, you're the human's narrative, and 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.400 your wife Laura says, gosh, that happens all the time. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.160 So I think people do pick up on that connection 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.240 that you have with them. And I think people are 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.160 very grateful to you for bringing us these stories because 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.280 you get inside of places that most of us can't go. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.160 What are some of the most extraordinary experiences you've had, Well. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:24.600 The latest one, I've been working with a journalist, Vivian Warby, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:30.640 and she is getting fantastic stories and she is amazing 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:36.559 journalist behind the computer, just like making connections and making 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:41.640 sure that we can go together to go into extraordinary places. 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:46.520 So we just went into the Ritz Hotel, which was 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:47.400 abandoned for. 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:49.480 Many years. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.800 I think the last time something happened, we actually found 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:57.240 menus like the invitations for the opening night upstairs in 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.600 the Revolving restaurant, and it was twenty eight I think, 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.920 and it was like welcome to the Revolving Restaurant and stuff, 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.000 and it's all just like dead birds and bird poop, and. 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.400 Your photos from there are extraordinary. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.000 Thank you, thank you. It was an extraordinary experience. And 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.200 I think that's what drives me to do these things. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:19.280 I want these experiences, and I go through these experiences 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.840 just with a camera in my hand, and I try 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.560 to portray it the best way so that other people 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:25.400 can see it as well. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.840 Do you ever get completely lost in your experience and 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.800 lose track of where you're supposed to be and what 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.120 you're supposed to be doing. I know that in terms 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.240 of your personal life, Law is definitely the bus and 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.000 manager of your calendar. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:38.120 She is. 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:44.200 I am completely slapped with attention deficit disorder, and I 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.960 love it absolutely. It makes me hyper focus sometimes on 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.920 photos where I can literally sit for twenty to forty 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.480 minutes and just wait for that specific momentait way longer 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.520 than I should to be honest, i'man like I need 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.760 to be somewhere. I'm just waiting until that person with 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.760 the dog looks this way and the reflection is like that, 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.600 and I'm waiting for a bird to fly past them. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:07.360 That's the picture. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.320 So yeah, no, definitely, And I mean that's why you're 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.080 always on the front page. How many front pages of 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:14.520 your head? Do you know? If you kept count? 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:22.240 I started collect collecting the physical front pages, and I 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.680 ran out of space, and I do not know what 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.440 to do with these the physical front pages. I've got 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.560 a stack of them in a cupboard that there's no 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.520 place for shoes anymore. But I would love to one 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.800 day just make a collage of this on a wall somewhere. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.320 Wallpaper a whole room with them. It would be amazing, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:40.960 absolutely wow. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.760 But further on, yeah, I keep the PDFs of all 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.000 the front pages. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.960 I mean, as you said, like the photoge you said 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.240 in the start of this interview. Photojournalism is one of 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.040 the most difficult forms of photography to break into, and 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:59.120 yet it is probably the worst paid one, So you 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.960 have to find ways to sustain yourself. I'm sure. Do 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.600 you give talks, do you train young photographers? What do 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:06.920 you do. 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.240 I I tried to do it as much as possible, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:15.360 I think I I did some empty jobs. A few 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.880 years ago. I started with the Bridal Fair was the 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.480 Winelands Bridle Fair. A friend of mine manages that and 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.840 she asked me to to to m c that. So 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.080 I did that and it was interesting but also nerve racking. 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.040 And then I m seed a few friends' weddings and 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:44.560 recently I I was on Dan Carter's podcast podcast that 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.680 he just started in Cape Town at the gin Barre 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.120 in Cape Town, which is fantastic and it's it's it's 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.760 such an interesting concept because he also Dan also said 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.960 like this is what he actually wanted, is a podcast 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.040 of interesting people that x birds in their field and 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.520 everybody just you know, share information and stuff. 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:04.960 So that was fantastic. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:13.080 Also, I did the the opening of a few exhibitions 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:22.320 for Shoot for Purpose, an absolutely fantastic program run by 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:30.720 Karnate and Navavi. They use street photography two to coach 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:39.680 victims of trauma, specifically female victims of trauma. They sponsor cameras. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.400 They have photo walks through the streets of Cape Town 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.760 through specific scenarios and stuff, and it is it is 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.280 a platform for them to express themselves where they feel 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:53.600 that their voices might have been. 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:56.600 Subdued for years. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.840 And the photos that comes out of this program and 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:04.320 the people, the people whose lives get changed, is a 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:05.720 fantastic thing to witness. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.199 I wish, I wish I could have another hour talking 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.399 to you, but it is nine o'clock in time for 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.920 that Witness News Amanda Haw the Human's Narrative. 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:14.920 Thank you so much. Amen,