1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Join the conversation on Facebook like the captal page to 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: stay up to date. Up to date. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: Now, when it comes to mental health, many people still 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: think of psychologists as the first and only option. That's 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: not incorrect. There are just more options than that. It's 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: not only quite pricey, but sometimes it can be slightly 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 2: out of range. There's a variety of reasons why psychiatry 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: and psychology is limited, especially in our South African context. 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: I think the average and difficult to say what the 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: average is, but you're going to pay upwards of one 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: thousand round an hour to see a psychologist, and so 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: that makes accessibility a question these options. There are other 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: options that are more flexible and often better suited to 14 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: everyday challenges. There are things like wellness counselors, registered counselors. 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: I didn't know the difference between all of these people, 16 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: but one person who does is a Luche bets At, 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: a wellness counselor who's based here in Cape Town. Luche, 18 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: thank you for your time. 19 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: Good morning, good morning. 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 2: It's really lucky to have you with us. And I'm 21 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: gonna go straight into our glossary and I want to 22 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: know if you can define for me the key difference. 23 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 2: What is the difference between what you do a wellness 24 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: counselor registered counselor or a psychologist. 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, so this is something that I also 26 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: didn't know about when I restarted my studies, but I 27 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: think it's really important to know, especially as you said 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: about the accessibility issue. So let me start with the beginning. 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: So wellness counseling is really focuses on a more holistic approach, 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: so I would say, in my opinion, it's a very 31 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: primary option, if that makes sense. So it's really focused 32 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: on lifestyle challenges, trauma support, and a more person centered 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: talk therapy kind of idea, whereas if perhaps there's more 34 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to say serious issues, but maybe if 35 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: someone feels like that isn't necessarily cutting it. They registered answers, Oh, 36 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: of course, they've been there, which they've also struggled with 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: not being as known as psychologists and psychiatrists, so that 38 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: would be a route that is more based on I 39 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: don't know. They follow the more academic routs, if I 40 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: can share it that way. So it's a bit more 41 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: medical as they are registered with the health professionals organizations, 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: so with them throughout medical aid, it's a more medical route. 43 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: If I can explain it that way and name psychologists, 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: most of us know about them where that is very medical. 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: They are the kind of people that are able to 46 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: diagnose you with mental illness or something that you would 47 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: need an intervention for. So that is where you would 48 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: go if that is what's needed. And then of course 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: the psychiatrists that is now the top point in my 50 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: mind where the medication comes in and the prescriptions and 51 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: those kinds of things. 52 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 2: Right, and psychiatrist these are people that hold medical degrees. 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: Am I correct? 54 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: Yes, they would have to go to the medical root company key, yes, 55 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: uh huh. 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 2: And so for someone in your profession, you're a wellness counselor, 57 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 2: and I didn't take it that your function and role 58 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: is you're working with CBT or four for those without 59 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: the acronyms, cognitive behavioral therapy, which is how we think 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 2: of therapy. As you sit down, you talk about your feelings. 61 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: Yes, so while there's counseling in our training, we do 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: still study psychology as the other roots for take except 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: now for psychiatry, which goes a bit more into the medical. 64 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: But so we all still taught those different techniques and 65 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: all those different things. But as we don't have as 66 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: a specialized education as the other rooms would say, we 67 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: kind of borrow those aspects. So there's still for training 68 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: at and in dialectical therapy, if that's the idea. So 69 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: it really depends on the type of specialization each wellness 70 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: counselor chooses, so that would be whether the research comes 71 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: in the consultation stations. 72 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: I fastic, Sorry, Luche, I'm going to have to interrupt you. 73 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: Something strange is happening to the line. I'm going to ask. 74 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to ask Shay if she'll put the phone 75 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: down with Luche and try to phone her back. Luchee 76 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: Betsit is a wellness counselor and she's based here out 77 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: of Cape Town. She does see her patients remotely on 78 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: video call and in preparation for this conversation, I was 79 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 2: talking to Luche about some of the work that she does, 80 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: but I'll have her answer more to that. Remember that 81 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: you can join this conversation at any point. Our number 82 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: is O two one four four six, five six seven, 83 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: or you can send a WhatsApp to seven to five 84 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 2: six seven one five sixty seven. Perhaps you have a 85 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: question for Liche that I can put to or you 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: can put that question to her yourself. The reason I 87 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: chose this conversation this morning, I'd like to mention that 88 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: is purely because I'm a bit of an how can 89 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: you say, but of an for mental health Okay, And 90 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: people who know me know that I love to talk 91 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: matters mental health and I love to suggest therapy to 92 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: everyone who expresses even the slightest bit of inconvenience in 93 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: their life. Luches back, can you hear us? 94 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: Yes, I can. Sorry for the interruption, not at all. 95 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: I've got you, loun and clear and no, Luche. Before 96 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 2: we last you there, you were talking about spatial team 97 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: and when I spoke to you in preparation for this interview, 98 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 2: you shared with me that you particularly have an interest in, 99 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: for instance, neurodivergence. And there are other wellness counselors who 100 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: have interests in potentially post traumatic stress treatment, other wellness 101 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: counselors that specialize in the GBV space, and so each 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: counselor will choose what is more preferential to them in 103 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 2: terms of treatments, and you'll hope to end up with 104 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: a counselor that is sort of best suited to your needs. Yes, 105 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: why neuro divergence. I find it interesting because I am 106 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 2: so nearro divergent. Why does that interest you? 107 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? So I love about that sometimes because I think 108 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: I took quite a selfish roud with that one. But 109 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: I mean, do it do you know where I was? 110 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: I was not diagnosed when I was younger, and it 111 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: was kind of something that as I learned about is 112 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: in class and experience the people around me that have 113 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: been diagnosed with ADHD, which I experienced, I think that 114 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: I realized there were so many challenges that I never 115 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: really realized were there. So once I started learning about that, 116 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: and even within my training, as we were talking to 117 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: other counselors to kind of help each other learn the space, 118 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: I just felt so much relief from just being able 119 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: to talk about my experience because I think it's with 120 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: neurodiversion specifically, there's so much of just acceptance, just having 121 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: to accept that you're different and that's just the way 122 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: it is. Just try and be as normal as possible, 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: which is like something that I've heard and now hearing 124 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: the word normal bothers me so much. I'm like, no, 125 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: it's different, it's not normal and weird normal so exact 126 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: what experience is so no normal? But I think that 127 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: we've been just play of be that any emergence from that. 128 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: So sorry, I'm having to interrupt you because the line 129 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: keeps periodically breaking up. I've got you now, it's stable, 130 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: but we did miss it a little bit of what 131 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: you said that. I'm sorry I interrupted you. Yes, as 132 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: you say, what is normal and to define that is 133 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: so difficult and normal can almost be a bit of 134 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: a slur sometimes. Now we're wellness counseling registered counseling psychology 135 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: typically covered by medical aid, yes or no. 136 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: So wellness counseling would not be able to be covered 137 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: by medical aid as you would have to be registered 138 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: with the HPCSA, which is the route that is being 139 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: taken to be a health professional in South Africa. With 140 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: wellness counselors, we are more holistic practitioners. 141 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: Oh I see, okay? Literally that then I got a 142 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: message here from Alma that so then of course there 143 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: are life and couple's coaches like her. Alma, you're a 144 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: life in a couple's coach, yes, and I assume that 145 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: they are also counselors registered counselors and wellness counselors that 146 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: that choose to specify in that couple's counseling is a 147 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: big theme, isn't. 148 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: It It is? Yeah, So like Alma, there's other holistic 149 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: services that are being offered in terms of coaches. 150 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: Then there's that too. Yes, yeah, I'm mentioning earlier and 151 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: it was when we lost you on the line. I 152 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: was mentioning why I wanted to have this conversation. And 153 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: I think there's so many people who could do so 154 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: well in in you know, going for therapy or going 155 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: for counseling, and oftentimes it's really just perceived as a 156 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: thing that's either a luxury or just really expensive or sadly, 157 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: in today's day and age, it's still stigmatized. And I 158 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: try to do my bit in destigmatizing it. Who needs counseling, Luche? 159 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: When when should we reflect within and go, hey, maybe 160 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: I should talk to. 161 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Someone your That is I think the most difficult question 162 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: in terms of not for me to answer, but for 163 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: all of us to answer for ourselves, because getting started 164 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: and getting that help is really heys, something changed. 165 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: We're losing Luche. Oh, that's very frustrating. Luche because you 166 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: were like midpoint and then we keep losing him Luche. 167 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: Shol we take a Rexcus Luche Shay. You see, we 168 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: have Luche on the line and we have producer Shay 169 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 2: in the booth. Shay, do we have a caller that 170 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: we're taking or we're going to move on to our messages? Okay, 171 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: So thank you for the white steps that have come through, 172 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: and please continue to send those through. It's seven two 173 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: five six seven one five sixty seven or two one 174 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: four four six five six seven. I'm really quite frustrated 175 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: by this phone line because I'm having the best conversation 176 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: with Lucha Petz, who is a wellness counselor based here 177 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: out of Cape Town. We've tried to raise her again, Luchay, 178 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: maybe we can get through the last ten minutes of 179 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: this interview, and my neuro divergence can't even remember what 180 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: we were talking about. Oh, who needs counseling? And why? 181 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: Hi? I am back? 182 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 2: Yes, you are back, so wonderful. You were going on 183 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: to tell us, Yes, how when do you make the 184 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: decision that is for you? 185 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think it is like the most personal 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: decision to really in yourself think something needs to change. 187 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: The moment that something clicks, I think that is when 188 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: people feel more of a drive to do something about 189 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: whatever that something is. So personally, I like I heard 190 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: you say, would encourage anyone to do it, anyone everyone, 191 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: because I also think people wouldn't really know what's bothering 192 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: them unless they start looking inward. And sometimes people need 193 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of guidance with that. 194 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 2: I think we're sometimes unaware, blissfully unaware of how much 195 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: of our daily behavior's thoughts, and actions are governed by 196 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: some of our programming, be it as young people, as children, 197 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 2: when it comes to how we interact with our colleagues, 198 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: with our friends, without with people that we're in relationship 199 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: and ships with. So much of this comes from different 200 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 2: spaces that upon reflecting a little bit, when you do, 201 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: you can tell you know where you might have some issues, 202 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: where there are some things that are bothering you. Then, 203 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: of course I think there are people with causation or problems. 204 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: Something happens, something something bad happens, and for that reason 205 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 2: I seek therapy because something is weighing on me. And 206 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 2: so I think for the causational person, something's happened and 207 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 2: now I need to speak to someone that's someone who 208 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: would consult with you for a limited time, but there 209 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 2: are other people who consult with you sort of ongoing. 210 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: Isn't that true? 211 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? So I know in some areas they believe that 212 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: wellness counseling a register. Counselors try to be more short term, 213 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: but I do believe that there is a space for 214 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: kind of extending that towards the needs of the clients. 215 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: So it felt like we're trying to steal the money 216 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: see you every day, but over time, learning those coping mechanisms, 217 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: learning your own thinking, and exploring even deeper and deeper 218 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: over time. 219 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I must dream. It's a really interesting topic to 220 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: me in particular, it's just something that I, as I said, 221 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: that I advocate for now. How important is it to 222 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: find the right fit with a counselor, regardless of their titles, 223 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: So whether you're speaking to a psychologist or a counselor 224 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 2: or a psychiatrist, whatever the title. I think a lot 225 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 2: of people, and in fact, I've heard this from more 226 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: than one person, is that they'd like to speak to 227 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: somebody who, first of all, culturally kind of gets them 228 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: and potentially comes from the right background, and I can 229 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: completely get that. And somebody who grew up in a 230 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 2: certain socioeconomic system versus someone who grew up in a 231 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: completely different socioeconomic system would need different forms of help 232 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: and would like to click with their counselor in a 233 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: different way. How do you go about that or how 234 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: do me, as in the patient, how do I go 235 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 2: about finding a counselor who can understand me and where 236 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: I'm from. 237 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think the biggest responsibility of the client 238 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: at the beginning is to do that research. So we're 239 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: in an age of social media, So a lot of 240 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: counselors and psychologists and all these different people have their 241 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: social media platforms where they like to share a breakdown 242 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: of who they are, what they offer, And I think 243 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: that's the starting point. And then most places I've seen 244 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: offer consultation sessions, and aw, that's guy I would say 245 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: the true effort goes in. Usually they're free. Sometimes they 246 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: discounted those kinds of things, but it's a space for 247 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: you to sit down and really find that click with 248 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: that person. If you don't find that click, you can 249 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: move on. You can find someone else, Because yeah, I 250 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: do believe that that click is really one of the 251 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: most fundamental parts for that change to occur. 252 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I know that. Well, I don't know, 253 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: and I hope that you'll elaborate on this. You work 254 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: with a bit of a network of counselors, don't you. 255 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, So, I mean the mental health space 256 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: is a difficult space to perform in in terms of 257 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: the general direction. So I think a lot of us 258 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: started with the idea of I'm going to become a psychologist, 259 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: not even understanding a bit of how broad the scope 260 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: can be, the different kind of psychologists, not even knowing 261 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: that wellness counselors and register counselors exist. So we've created 262 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: a community. There are various kinds of communities. I'm just 263 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: in one where we've received our training and kind of 264 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: just talking to each other, being able to refer our 265 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: clients to each other. If we had a consultation session 266 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: but the client says, no, I rather need someone like this, 267 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: we go on that little WhatsApp group or wherever we 268 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: are and we go, Hi, this is the kind of 269 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: person I have who is more specialized in this, and 270 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: then we can refer to that person. 271 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: And would you say that within your network anyways? Because 272 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: I'm speaking to you at the moment anyway, would you 273 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: say within your network that there are people? How can 274 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: I say there is someone for everyone? If that makes sense? 275 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: Oh? One hundred percent. Yeah. Even within my training hours, 276 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: I met so many different people that will be able 277 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: to offer exactly what someone else felt they needed in 278 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: that moment. Yeah, yeah, I can't. 279 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: As I said, every single person brings the most minor, 280 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 2: minor inconvenience to me. I'm like, oh, you should go 281 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 2: for therapy, and then I try to send them towards 282 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: a wellness counselor. All right, And as we wrap this 283 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: conversation up and we were speaking to luciape bet So. 284 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: She's a wellness counselor and her website is Lush Wellness 285 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: Counseling dot com and luchere our listeners can get in 286 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: touch with you those who want to, and for the 287 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 2: ones that you won't personally help, you're able to refer them. 288 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: You won't mind, would you? 289 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: No? Of course not? 290 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for that Lush Wellness Counseling dot calm, 291 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: lu shape bets, thanks for your time and I wish 292 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: you were really really lequer public holiday for the rest 293 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: of what's left of it. 294 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, same to you and everyone else.