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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on.

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Speaker 2: Seven oh two.

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Speaker 1: Let's walk at all.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by Abscess Sponsorships, proud sponsor of the Absur Cape Epic,

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Speaker 3: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails. Absett

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Speaker 3: is a registered FSP. Good evening, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Eight minutes after six the time. One of those days

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Speaker 3: where you sort of start off the day thinking it

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Speaker 3: might be a little bit quiet, not a lot going on,

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Speaker 3: long weekend, et cetera everywhere, so a lot of markets

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Speaker 3: will be closed instead the President Sarama Pausa announcing, of course,

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Speaker 3: a new commissioner at sarz And I was watching yesterday

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Speaker 3: when Edward Kiswetter, the sort of outgoing commissioner, was speaking

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Speaker 3: and the Finance Misiting of Iguana said, will make an

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Speaker 3: announcement soon. I didn't think at the time they've probably

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Speaker 3: already decided who it's going to be. I made the

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Speaker 3: point earlier, speaking both to Homoso and to Africa. The

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Speaker 3: cylical part of me sort of looks at the statement

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Speaker 3: and when they say that the new person, when they

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Speaker 3: say that, Ingobani maccorbo was sort of nominated unanimously by

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Speaker 3: the panel. How many people did they interview, it seems

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Speaker 3: to me and this is a good thing that he

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Speaker 3: was obviously going to be him from the start Deputy

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Speaker 3: SARS Commissioner of PhD. In leadership, you can get a

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Speaker 3: sense that someone was working to something and I think

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Speaker 3: that is exactly what t SARS needs, is how we

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Speaker 3: should do things from this points what the Orders of

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Speaker 3: General's office has done for many years. For example, I

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Speaker 3: can't think of a time when the Orders to General

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Speaker 3: wasn't previously the Deputy Orders to General and that kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, sort of assembly line of leadership if

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Speaker 3: you like, whatever you want to call it, pipeline, is

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Speaker 3: exactly what you want. I mean, some of the banks

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Speaker 3: have been specializing in that, some of them just to

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Speaker 3: steal from other places. You know who you are, but

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Speaker 3: some of them have rarely been able to build sort

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Speaker 3: of consistent and continuous leadership. So really glad to see

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Speaker 3: that it's happened at SARS. After everything that's happened. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk about that in a moment with Charles Debett from

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Speaker 3: NS Africa. So I've been following with interest the conversation

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Speaker 3: around Cherry the carmaker. They've basically bought the nis and

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Speaker 3: plant at Roslin. They're going to be making cars here.

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Speaker 3: And you've heard so many conversations over the last few

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Speaker 3: months about how big Chinese manufacturing capability is. So we

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Speaker 3: talk a little bit about that with Renee Mutti Lal,

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Speaker 3: the CEO of the National Association of Automotive Components and

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Speaker 3: Allied Manufacturers and IM in about ten minutes. I think

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Speaker 3: it's an interesting conversation. There's confirmation from Cherry at the

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Speaker 3: Big Investment conference that actually they are going ahead and

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Speaker 3: that they'll have cars rolling off the production line sometime

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Speaker 3: next year. We've seen a lot of change in the

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Speaker 3: last few months. We've seen a lot of reforms. All

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Speaker 3: of these things should really be strengthening the sort of

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Speaker 3: investment case for South Africa. I was slightly surprised to

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Speaker 3: see something I hadn't thought of but kind of knew about,

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Speaker 3: which is that the Public Service Amendment Bill, which really

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Speaker 3: regulates the civil service, it regulates government workers in a

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Speaker 3: very different way. And what it essentially does is it's

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Speaker 3: is that actually, if you're the politician, you don't get

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Speaker 3: to influence who works for you who runs the department,

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Speaker 3: and that stops politicians interfering in all sorts of ways.

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Speaker 3: When we've heard from the Madlangak Commission and so many

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Speaker 3: other places how they do that. But Casey Sprake at

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Speaker 3: ag Capital saying, actually, this is a big market event

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Speaker 3: because it will improve governance in South Africa. Will invite

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Speaker 3: Casey to explain that to you in around half an

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Speaker 3: hour from now. And then more changes coming in the

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Speaker 3: railway sector the approval now cabinets approved the draft National

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Speaker 3: rail master Plan. Always find master plans a bit sort

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Speaker 3: of Soviet to me. Maybe that's just a prejudice. I

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Speaker 3: don't know, but you do need one and we have one,

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Speaker 3: thank goodness, and we'll get a view on it from

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Speaker 3: Professor Younghavenka, one of the people you go to in

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Speaker 3: these moments. I could to hear from you this evening

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Speaker 3: on a double one DOAA three oh seven O two

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Speaker 3: two one four four six five six seven and voice

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Speaker 3: notes this evening on O seven two seven oh two

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Speaker 3: one seven oh two, And I was just thinking about

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Speaker 3: the last time I went on a lot long distance

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Speaker 3: train trip in South Africa and are still a student.

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Speaker 3: So it was a very long time ago. There was

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Speaker 3: a time before that in the eighties with the family

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Speaker 3: and the cat and the dog and dare at night.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not going to bore you with that, but

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Speaker 3: I remember as a student going on the train to

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Speaker 3: Alice and coming back from Alice to Johannesburg because I

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Speaker 3: was at Macunda at Rhodes University there. So your last

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Speaker 3: sort of long distance trip on a South African South

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Speaker 3: African train, please? What was it like? Where did you

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Speaker 3: go and how long did it take? Seven two seven

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Speaker 3: two one seven two thirteen minutes after six The Loney Show.

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Speaker 2: With Stephen Krutis live on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 2: one o six f M, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 1: NAP and TSTV channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Well the announcement from the Presidency today, President Sarahmapausa appointing

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Speaker 3: Deputy SARS Commissioner doctor and Gurbani mccorboor to take over

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Speaker 3: as the National Commissioner. He'll take a from Edward kiss

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Speaker 3: Fetter on the first of May. Rama paus is saying

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Speaker 3: that that selection panel unanimously recommended mccoub. Charles de Vett's

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Speaker 3: a tax executive at INS Africa Charles good Evening, So

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Speaker 3: mccouble Deputy Commissioner at SARAS for about three years, nominated

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Speaker 3: unanimously by this panel a PhD in leadership. On paper,

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Speaker 3: there seems to be a perfect model of consistency. It's

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Speaker 3: exactly how a SARAS commissioner should be appointed.

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Speaker 4: Good Evening Steven and I think, I mean, I agree

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Speaker 4: with that completely. I mean, he originally had joined SARS

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Speaker 4: in the procurement space and then spent a while as

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Speaker 4: acting CFO and then CFO, so so he understands the

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Speaker 4: business and has been Deputy commissioners since twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 4: so I mean, you know, he's been in the thick

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Speaker 4: of it. He's been part of the of the planning.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, sort of the challenges of fixing

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Speaker 4: SACE from the challenges that they were that they were facing.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's good news.

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Speaker 4: You know that they've taken somebody internally that that that

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Speaker 4: understands it, but you know, is an independent thinker and uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, will sort of continue to the traditional building

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Speaker 4: a great SARS.

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Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things you want to do

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Speaker 3: in an institution like SARS or the NBA or the

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Speaker 3: orders to general or wherever is get things going in

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Speaker 3: a particular direction where everyone can see it inside and outside,

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Speaker 3: and then make sure the next leader keeps that going.

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Speaker 3: Is that your expectation for SARS with a new leader

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Speaker 3: in a month's time.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I think they. I mean they they're on a

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Speaker 4: good track at at the moment. That doesn't mean that

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Speaker 4: he hasn't got big challenges that that you will will face,

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Speaker 4: but I think the fact that they won't be significant

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Speaker 4: upheaval is is positive in the in the circumstances, you know,

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Speaker 4: I mean, we had a good budget this year, but

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Speaker 4: you know, I think the timing of the budget was

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Speaker 4: was appropriate as well as it had been a week

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Speaker 4: later a make may have looked a little bit a

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Speaker 4: little bit different. And the I mean they you know,

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Speaker 4: the it's in tax collection and the enforcement of of

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Speaker 4: of the tax laws. Is is u important to maintain

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Speaker 4: the economy and you know, so that we can get

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Speaker 4: to that growth that we really so desperately need in

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Speaker 4: the in the circumstances of having somebody from from inside

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Speaker 4: that has been part of the senior leadership team that

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Speaker 4: can continue developing it in in the direction and you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of maybe tweak some things that have that have

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Speaker 4: gone wrong. I mean they asked, as I said, there

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Speaker 4: are challenges there, but but you know, I think it

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Speaker 4: will be less disruptive than bringing somebody in from them

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Speaker 4: from the outside, because then we were we would have

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Speaker 4: seen a significant change. And I mean the has kind

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Speaker 4: of been tipped to take over the job for a while. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so it's not you know, entirely unexpected that Johnston would

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Speaker 4: would be the new commissioner.

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Speaker 3: What do you think are going to be the major

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Speaker 3: challenges of the new era at SARAS, if I can

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Speaker 3: call it that. I mean, see that tax trends are

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Speaker 3: changing around the world, the way people try and evade

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Speaker 3: and avoid taxes changing. What what do you think are

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Speaker 3: going to be the issues that ready to find the

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Speaker 3: next few years. And obviously just improving compliance is still

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Speaker 3: going to be a major thing.

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Speaker 4: So I mean a CLI compliance is always important, and

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Speaker 4: you know you need to keep on beating the drum

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Speaker 4: about that all the time. I mean, you know, so

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Speaker 4: as a year ago is you'll remember when the VAT

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Speaker 4: increase didn't happen, made significant problems. Is about collecting additional

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Speaker 4: additional revenue, so you know that that is still working

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Speaker 4: work in progress, so you know that that's going to

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Speaker 4: be an important and important part of it in terms

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Speaker 4: of assessing the debt and you know what he is

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Speaker 4: really doing and payable and making sure that the money

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Speaker 4: does get into the into the bank. I mean the

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Speaker 4: second aspect that I think that you know sort of

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Speaker 4: has potentially de deteriorated over the last a little while

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Speaker 4: is sort of a level of training and knowledge.

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Speaker 3: That at SARCE.

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Speaker 4: So you know, there needs to be a little bit

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Speaker 4: of investment in in that space and to some extent

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Speaker 4: sort of you know, repairing the relationship with tax practitioners

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Speaker 4: that are also you know there where there have been

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Speaker 4: some challenges over the last sort of year or two.

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Speaker 4: And then modernization is a significant part of that. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's the you know, probably the big item

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Speaker 4: that they're going to have to focus on. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we've already seen the blueprint on technology. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: lots of talk about about artificial intelligence and using that

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Speaker 4: in this space. But I mean the revenue, the successful

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Speaker 4: revenue authority in the future is going to have to

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Speaker 4: look at the new types of of revenue that there are,

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Speaker 4: the new economy that and and and find new.

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Speaker 3: Ways to tax them.

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Speaker 4: I mean in terms of in terms of capital flows,

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Speaker 4: you know, I mean we've we've seen this, you know,

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Speaker 4: people that are that are now coming into the tax

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Speaker 4: net that are influ insers on social media. But I

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Speaker 4: think there's a lot more work to be done there

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Speaker 4: to really modernize at an organization to say that as

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Speaker 4: supply chains become more complex, you know, are we taxing

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Speaker 4: at all the right right points? And we are we

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Speaker 4: equipped to do that? And you know, we have to

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Speaker 4: be close to the developments in that space so that

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Speaker 4: we can collect taxes because that's what makes the country

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Speaker 4: go around.

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Speaker 3: Would it be fair to say that nowadays the tax

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Speaker 3: authority is really only as good as it's it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is one of the areas you have to invest.

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Speaker 3: You have to make sure you're up to the minute,

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Speaker 3: and you have to make sure your systems work efficiently,

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Speaker 3: correctly and get you the right amount of money.

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Speaker 5: I think.

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Speaker 4: I mean technology is critical, and that's sort of you know,

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Speaker 4: critically at two different levels. One is just in terms

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Speaker 4: of the way that you know, tax space interact with

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Speaker 4: the revenue authority, so you know, the the compliance process

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Speaker 4: has to be seamless, so you must make it easy

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Speaker 4: for people to actually submit their returns and pay their tax.

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Speaker 4: And you know a lot of being has been done

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Speaker 4: in the E filing space and you know that that

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Speaker 4: has reviews, you know, significant barriers. It's a much easier

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Speaker 4: to fill in your taxture turn now than it was

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Speaker 4: ten years ago because it's pretty much prepopulated in the

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Speaker 4: in the circumstances. So you know, that's a critical component

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Speaker 4: of it. I mean, the other sideware technology is it

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Speaker 4: is important is you know, is in terms of that

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Speaker 4: third party validation, verification from the banks, from the state,

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Speaker 4: from you know, I mean employers generally.

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Speaker 3: You know, you know sort of think.

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Speaker 4: Of the the I the I r P five system

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Speaker 4: for for p Ye that that works well and you

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Speaker 4: know generates the highest level of tax in the in

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Speaker 4: the circumstances. So you know that I mean sort of

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Speaker 4: gathering that intelligence and having ways to interrogate the significant

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Speaker 4: data around that is important and I think we're going

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Speaker 4: to see a lot more of that as the that

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Speaker 4: modernization process develops. But you know, the other thing that

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Speaker 4: you know, I think is also very important is in

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Speaker 4: a revenue authorities is really you know, understanding the law

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Speaker 4: and the way that you can talk interpret the law

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Speaker 4: and that that is then trans transferred into the IT processes,

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Speaker 4: because you know, if you haven't got good experience as

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Speaker 4: far as as far as that's concerned, then you're not

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Speaker 4: going to be able to achieve that. And then there

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Speaker 4: needs to be some level of enforcement almost audit capability,

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Speaker 4: so that people know at some point in the time

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Speaker 4: they will be audited. So you know, if anybody's taking

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Speaker 4: any chances on their on their taxes, they will be

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Speaker 4: caught out at some point in time, either by that

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Speaker 4: sort of you know, intelligent minding of of of data

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Speaker 4: or simple by you know, simply by an old style

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Speaker 4: audit or lifestyle audit that is conducted in the circumstances.

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Speaker 3: Charles of It, thanks so much. Tax executive at NS

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Speaker 3: Affricate twenty one minutes after six.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen on seven O two seven two.

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Speaker 3: Confirmation at the Big Investment Conference this week that Cherry

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Speaker 3: now expects it's first South African made cars be running

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Speaker 3: out of their new factory here next year. They've bought

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Speaker 3: Bustiness factory in swine Renee Mutilal is the CEO of

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Speaker 3: the National Association of Automotive components and allied manufacturers Renee

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Speaker 3: good evening, good to chat again. I mean, Cherry's been

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Speaker 3: growing quickly, so of other Chinese brands. How strong is

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Speaker 3: the investment case for them to build their cars here

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Speaker 3: when Chinese production is so strong.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, evening to you and your listeners, Stephen. Look, I

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Speaker 6: think there is still a strong business case for the investment.

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Speaker 6: The reality is that they have very quickly established a

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Speaker 6: very sizeable domestic market in the country. I mean, if

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Speaker 6: we just look at this quarter long they sold more

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Speaker 6: than sixteen thousand vehicles across the various brands within the

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Speaker 6: Cherry group. And as the whole kind of adage goes,

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Speaker 6: with the strongermestic market, the case where investment becomes quite

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Speaker 6: quite attractive. There is also policy reasons why I think

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Speaker 6: long term it makes sense for them to be producing.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, you've got a good point. The Chinese production

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Speaker 6: efficiencies make them really competitive, but there's distance to market,

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Speaker 6: there's opportunities for export, particularly in the region. South Africa

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Speaker 6: is a right hand market, as is for example, the UK.

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Speaker 6: So I think long term business case is there, but

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Speaker 6: we would obviously love to see Cherry come in and

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Speaker 6: do deep levels of production make use of the component

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Speaker 6: base that Misten has built up over time and other

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Speaker 6: component manufacturers, and I think that's where we will see

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Speaker 6: win win Cherry and of course economic advantages for the country.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I do wonder if just from a simple

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Speaker 3: marketing point of view, if you can say that, yes,

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Speaker 3: your cars are cheap and made here, it'll help them

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Speaker 3: stand out of it. I think standing out is going

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Speaker 3: to be the tough thing to do in this in

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Speaker 3: this market for a while.

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Speaker 6: I think their marketing teams are already doing a really,

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Speaker 6: really good job and the reality is them and other

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Speaker 6: emerging brands have come into.

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Speaker 3: The market with.

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Speaker 6: Technology and I suppose competitiveness factors that has seen sout

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Speaker 6: African consumers take to those brands. I think for us

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Speaker 6: at the component's constituency, we welcome the investment. We look

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Speaker 6: forward to seeing how our own sout African based component

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Speaker 6: producers can slip into that value chain, partner with the

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Speaker 6: Cherry technologies and their own Tier one supplier base. I

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Speaker 6: think they've got some fantastic technologies, particularly in the NV space,

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Speaker 6: and for us, the real kind of advantage will be

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Speaker 6: an ability to partner with some of that emerging technology

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Speaker 6: and to try and build our own NYV component production

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Speaker 6: based which is nascent, it's growing. We've got some good

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Speaker 6: things happening in the space, but this one has the

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Speaker 6: ability to translate into a greater spread of component production.

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Speaker 3: Renee, I must just ask him, afraid. I mean, lots

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Speaker 3: of talk this week about electric cars. We speak to

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Speaker 3: Volvo last night, but also because of higher fuel prices,

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Speaker 3: generally speaking, they use fewer components that don't get services off,

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Speaker 3: and things don't seem to break quite as much. Do

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Speaker 3: you worry of the sort of long term future of

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Speaker 3: your industry as the automotive components and allowed manufacturers, I mean,

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Speaker 3: is that something that worries you that, in fact, electric cars,

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Speaker 3: if they become say fifty percent of the market, and

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Speaker 3: that'll probably happen one day, over a long period of time,

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Speaker 3: there'll be less demand field services.

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Speaker 6: Actually, that doesn't worry me. What does worry me is

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Speaker 6: that the country's got stuck in the mud. Localization or

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Speaker 6: domestic component production percentage, It hasn't really grown over the

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Speaker 6: last ten to fifteen years. And if anything, we've seen

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Speaker 6: over the last two years as the domestic sales or

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Speaker 6: vehicle market has recovered slightly regression in the component localization percentage.

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Speaker 6: Why does the change in technology that not really bother me?

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Speaker 6: I think component produces, by virtue of how a car

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Speaker 6: is a symbol globally respond to technology changes all the time.

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Speaker 6: Even in the isoor hybrid space, variants change every seven years.

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Speaker 6: That's a model of life cycle, and with sufficient time

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Speaker 6: and planning, component produces respond to technology changes as the

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Speaker 6: OEM requires that. Besides that, any of these specific technologies,

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Speaker 6: there are parts of a vehicle that will always remain

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Speaker 6: technology agnostic. A seat is a seat, if you can

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Speaker 6: and get the analogy. But besides that, in the energy space,

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Speaker 6: we've actually we've got the opportunity for localization of some

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Speaker 6: of those specific components. Attraction, motors, batteries have been spoken

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Speaker 6: about a lot. The Legion's critical mineral that one she

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Speaker 6: claimed itself to being able to capture a greater production

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Speaker 6: of step to component based than we currently do.

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Speaker 3: Renee Motilau, thanks so much, really to appreciate it. This

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Speaker 3: year of the National Association of Automotive Components and Allied Manufacturers.

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Speaker 3: Twenty seven minutes after six the money Show, the market

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Speaker 3: Graham Corner is at the corner perspective Graham, Good evening.

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Speaker 3: I mean, really only one story in town. The speech

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Speaker 3: last night by the US President Donald Trump. Lots of

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Speaker 3: expectation that maybe he would announce a pose in the

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Speaker 3: bombing of Iran, oil prices will go back to normal,

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Speaker 3: and he went, well, I don't really know what he did.

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Speaker 3: He went into the complete opposite.

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Speaker 7: He asked evehen it sort of feels like he's playing

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Speaker 7: art of the deal, as I doing a property development

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Speaker 7: in New York. But you know, in global diplomacy circles,

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Speaker 7: and particularly when you're trying to look for an off

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Speaker 7: ramp out of a really messy war, it just doesn't

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Speaker 7: feel like like we're going about the wrong the right way.

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Speaker 7: I think, you know, we go from sugar highs to

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Speaker 7: glycemic crashes and back to sugar highs in the space

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Speaker 7: of the day. It's I think it's really starting to

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Speaker 7: weigh on markets, all the volatility because we're trying to

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Speaker 7: sort of figure out what the next few weeks or

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Speaker 7: months hold. But yeah, we're literally going from one truth

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Speaker 7: social post to the next.

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Speaker 3: I mean, for I think a lot of people watching

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Speaker 3: all of this the senses that there's nothing they can do.

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Speaker 3: It creates a huge amount of ankst. I mean, how

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Speaker 3: shouldn't investor really be looking at this? Should you be

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Speaker 3: trying to look past it? Well?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I'm a lunatic, so I sort of

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Speaker 7: see weakness like we've seen in the South African financials

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Speaker 7: or for example, in some of the texts. Offshore is

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Speaker 7: a great opportunity to buy really good companies at good prices.

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Speaker 7: If you take South Africa for example, you know we've

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Speaker 7: gone from baking in fifty bases points of cuts and

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Speaker 7: now assuming we're going to get hikes, we haven't even

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Speaker 7: really had a data point yet. So yeah, I think

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Speaker 7: the market's a littlehead of itself. And if you look

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Speaker 7: in America, for example, some great companies and I'm talking

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Speaker 7: texts for example, delivering solid mid teams plus earnings growth,

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Speaker 7: sitting on very attractive multiples, in fact, trading on big

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Speaker 7: discounts to what utilities and staples are sitting on. So yeah,

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Speaker 7: we think this is a really good time, but it

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Speaker 7: feels awkward because you know, everybody else is running for

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Speaker 7: the exit and use sort of coming into the building.

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Speaker 7: So it is awkward. But over time, we found that

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Speaker 7: these geopolitical crises come and go and generally you get

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Speaker 7: rewarded for being brave and buying good companies as good valuations.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's an art to buying the depth. The

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Speaker 3: depths have been quite deep this time around. That should

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Speaker 3: mean the returns could be quite steep as well.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Look, I always joke and saying it's not like I've

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Speaker 7: got a golden telephone on the desk and somebody who

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Speaker 7: phones you and says, right, the market's turned. You actually

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Speaker 7: have to buy on the way down and have a

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Speaker 7: little bit of nerve. Yeah, but I would agree with that.

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Speaker 7: I mean, you know, if you look at even before

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Speaker 7: this melt done courtesy of the Iran War, you had

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Speaker 7: seen AI, for example, have a massive impact on technology company,

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Speaker 7: software companies, platform companies, and there are a lot of

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Speaker 7: really good companies that have been marked down massively. And

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Speaker 7: the reality is, I don't think AI or in Iran

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Speaker 7: War is actually going to significantly disrupt their business models.

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Speaker 7: You know, you're thinking about, you know, companies like Netflix

401
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Speaker 7: and Booking dot Com, and even if you look at

402
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Speaker 7: the likes of alphabet Slash, Google and Microsoft. So yeah,

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Speaker 7: I think I think as long as you know what

404
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Speaker 7: you're buying and you've got a long term view, this

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Speaker 7: really could be a good opportunity, and I agree with you.

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Speaker 7: I think of these markdown levels you could actually see

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Speaker 7: quite quite an improvement in the performance that you might

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Speaker 7: have expected maybe six months ago, even three months ago.

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Speaker 3: Graham Corner, thanks so much from the corner perspective. Really

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Speaker 3: appreciate it. Just gone six thirty.

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Speaker 2: What up, Stephen?

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Speaker 1: On seven two seven oh two one seven.

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Speaker 3: Twenty two minutes to seven the time? So I asked

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Speaker 3: at the start of the program, when was what was

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Speaker 3: the last long distance trip that you did by train

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Speaker 3: in South Africa? A couple of interesting responses, Pierre, what's up?

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Speaker 3: Saying Hi? Stephen last trip was in nineteen eighty one

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Speaker 3: National Service June intake from Johannesburg to Kimberley. Gosh, I

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Speaker 3: bet you have complicated memories of that, Richard. I used

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Speaker 3: to travel from Johannesburg to school in Cape Down every

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Speaker 3: term when it was the trans Crew Express. The best

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Speaker 3: thing was a Lion Export. L was thirteen cents so

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Speaker 3: we could get lotter for around Richard, I'm surprised, do

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Speaker 3: you remember that he's in wilderness? Other voicenoes coming in

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Speaker 3: this evening.

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Speaker 9: Just I'm seventy three years of age. I live in

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Speaker 9: the Cape Province and my parents were fairly poor, I

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Speaker 9: would say.

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Speaker 3: Growing up.

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Speaker 9: We didn't have a motor car, but we went on holiday.

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Speaker 9: My father used to go to the bank manager boy

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Speaker 9: the money. Then we went from Petersburg. We didn't stay there.

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Speaker 9: We stayed on him as Bestes's mind, about an hour

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Speaker 9: away from Petersburg, now called Poloconi, and we would book

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Speaker 9: they would go to the some hotel or either always

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Speaker 9: on the German beachfront by train, come on the train

437
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 9: Polocony and all the way down and we had wonderful trips,

438
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 9: wonderful the old steam trains and the hooting of the

439
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 9: trains and the changing of the trains down to Durban

440
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 9: and the Jersey Great Run. And we were four five

441
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 9: children at that stage used to go with stay in

442
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 9: the hotel and it was beautiful. I always for thort

443
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 9: to my father because he had to pay the money

444
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 9: back next year to the bank. And then that went

445
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 9: on and on like that for years. So the last

446
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 9: time I probably started was about two eleven, twelve years

447
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 9: awad that I can remember going on the train until

448
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 9: about seventeen and then never be known a train like

449
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 9: that again, it was wonderful, really wonderful.

450
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 3: By sure, I can hear the kind of reminiscing in

451
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: your voice almost they the kind of joy in your voice.

452
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the thing about a train must

453
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: be that you can walk up and down, you can

454
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: spend time together, you can go to the dining car together,

455
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: and you can bump into other people. And I mean

456
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: in the third class you'll be sitting so so you know,

457
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 3: there'll be a sort of vibe sometimes in train carriages.

458
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,239
Speaker 3: And a friend of mine, Alex Lucy, if you may

459
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: remember him, he worked here for e WN. He did

460
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: the famous bloody Vostok to Moscow train trips like twelve

461
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 3: days now. He speaks a little bit of Russian. He

462
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: spoke a lot more by the end of that trip,

463
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 3: but he said he did it, and he was a

464
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 3: a carriage with people he didn't known. By the end

465
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: of it, they were all firm friends. He also said

466
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 3: that he doesn't remember being sober very much for it.

467
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 3: Janine says in January nineteen sixty five, Wow, Jeanine, as

468
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 3: a bit student, a friend and I traveled from Gerberg

469
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: by train down to Cape Town for holiday. We stayed

470
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: in a uct residence and trained back again. We stated

471
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: that we went through the glorious extra of a valley.

472
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 3: It took a day and night each way in a

473
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: steam train. It was wonderful. I was horrified in nineteen

474
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: ninety one my children were going when the train went

475
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 3: through the tunnel, and my children never saw the Hex

476
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 3: River Valley. I wanted to cry, what an interesting memory

477
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 3: that is. Jeanine, thank you. Nineteen minutes to seven The

478
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 3: Lonely Show.

479
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 2: With Stephen Krudis live on ninety two point seven and

480
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: one six FM, treaming on the Prime Media Plus.

481
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

482
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 3: Sixteen minutes seven. That time, lots of focus at the

483
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 3: start of the year about the reforms we've seen in government.

484
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: Then of course got distracted by what's happening around Iran.

485
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 3: But it's possible sometimes not to see some other big

486
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 3: changes that are coming sort of down the track. A

487
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: suggestion this week from Casey Sprak, market strategist to ag

488
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: Capital that the Public Service Amendment Bill could actually be

489
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 3: a game changer for our economy and it's something that

490
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 3: investors on missing cases on the line for you now,

491
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: Casey good evening and thanks for your time. So, I mean,

492
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 3: the bill does quite a few things. The big thing,

493
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 3: the political thing it does, is it makes it illegal

494
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 3: for politicians, for public officials, for a minister, for example,

495
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: to influence who's appointed as their officials. Officials are no

496
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: longer politicized now that I would expect would make it

497
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: a difference to governance and therefore be a big political issue.

498
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: Why do you think it's a market story?

499
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 8: Ah, good evening and thanks for having me on the

500
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 8: show today. I mean, and to put it into simple terms,

501
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 8: the bill's really designed to basically end CADRA deployment as

502
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 8: a structural feature of how government operates within our economy.

503
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 8: And from a market perspective, it's important to bear in

504
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 8: mind that the SMP upgraded South Africa for was back

505
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 8: in November of last year to double B status and

506
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 8: that was the first time in nearly sixteen years that

507
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 8: we had a major credit rating agency actually upgrade us.

508
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 8: And from there on we now see that agencies are

509
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 8: really watching whether that reform momentum is real or cosmetic.

510
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 8: And this type of bill that you know, still needs

511
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 8: to actually be signed by President Rama Pausa, but signing

512
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 8: this bill would really give rating agencies a legislative anchor,

513
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 8: and that would really be proof that government's reform is

514
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 8: actually structural and not just talk, which of course has

515
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 8: been a major feature for us for a while over

516
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 8: a decade now. And it's really important because you know,

517
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 8: better ratings at the end of the day mean lower

518
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 8: borrowing costs for government, which means less pressure on the

519
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 8: fiscus and ultimately less pressure on taxpayers as well.

520
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 3: So I mean, this is one of those things that

521
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 3: would prove this is not just about Sarah Rama Pausa

522
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: as president will outlive him. This is going to change

523
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: the country and government for generations to come. Is that

524
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: sort of the point?

525
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 8: I mean, the ball is really being described as one

526
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 8: of the most significant governance reforms we've seen since the

527
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety six Constitution. I mean, that's by no means

528
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 8: sort of a hyperbole, and it's it's strange to me

529
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 8: that almost nobody's talking about it and that markets are

530
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 8: sort of looking past it at the moment. A sort

531
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 8: of can't you know, understate the importance of such a ball.

532
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know why it hasn't signed it yet,

533
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 3: but I imagine it'll come we've seen casey quite a

534
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: bit of reform over the last couple of years, and

535
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: we add this to the list. Is there a kind

536
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: of compounding effect that we can look forward to, so

537
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: they build on each other. It's reform upon reform, and

538
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: should that start to really cumulative, cumulatively, but almost more

539
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: than cumulatively, start moving the needle on our economy, start

540
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: making us a lot more attractive. So this is this

541
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: is an important story, but this is part of much

542
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 3: bigger story that's kind of beginning to compound.

543
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 8: Yes, one hundred percent, and then really, as you mentioned,

544
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 8: a compound that it follows from one another in all

545
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 8: elements of our economy. So if we think about the rand,

546
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 8: the bard markets, foreign investment flows, et cetera, all of

547
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,239
Speaker 8: these really benefit from a a credible reform story, and

548
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 8: this type of ball would really be a major chapter.

549
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 5: Of that story.

550
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 8: I mean, if you break it down to a little

551
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 8: bit more detail. For the equity market, for instance, you know,

552
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 8: the payoff of such reform measures is less direct, but

553
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 8: no less real. If you think, you know, improved governess

554
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 8: reduces the risk of state entity blow ups that create

555
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 8: fiscal shocks, which really matters for banks for example, carrying

556
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 8: you know, rising sovereign exposure and for any sector really

557
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 8: dependent on functioning public infrastructure, and you know, to touch

558
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 8: on the rand again, jelously is always topical. It's you know,

559
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 8: really benefited from improved sentiments and portfolio inflows beginning of

560
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 8: the year of course, you know, barring the guipolitical shocks

561
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 8: we're seeing at the moment. And this type of reform

562
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 8: measures really just helps get another structural pillar underneath that,

563
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 8: and it really starts to have you know, spillover effects

564
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 8: that touch everyday consumers like yourself and myself.

565
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: So it's one thing to sign it into law, and

566
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 3: I can understand why, as you've explained that markets should

567
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: react to that. It does need to actually happen though,

568
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: in other words, it needs to be followed, and this

569
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: is one of those laws it's actually quite difficult to

570
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: make to follow the implementation, it's not going to be obvious.

571
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: People will have to sort of see so it'll be

572
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: obvious for directors general, but it won't be obvious for

573
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: any other official. Really.

574
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think first and foremost, if the President actually

575
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 8: delays or fails to design the bill, that itself would

576
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 8: send a bit of a signal that political will for

577
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 8: reform has limits, and we really sort of undermine again

578
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 8: that credibility that I mentioned that's really supported the most

579
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 8: sort of recent upgrade and general positive market sentiments. But again,

580
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 8: you know, if sign you mentioned it, implementation is everything.

581
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 8: They're just say without enforcement changes nothing in the day.

582
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 8: And it's a real test of whether political interference simply

583
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 8: sort of moves underground or stay sort of out in

584
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 8: the open. And I think that will be the barometer

585
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 8: that we can sort of gauge.

586
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 10: Of the SPY.

587
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: Really, Casey, thanks so much, really appreciated Casey sprak as

588
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: a market strategistic a g capital.

589
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 11: The Money Show, Stephen Krutez is brought to you by

590
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 11: ABSCE Sponsorships, croud sponsor of the Absurd kape Epic, celebrating

591
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 11: twenty years of taking it to the trails as a

592
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 11: registered the.

593
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: FSP nine minutes to seven or cabinets a day releasing

594
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 3: a new National rail Master Plan, the document rarely that's

595
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: supposed to guide how the railway system will develop and

596
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: grow over the next few years. Professor Nhavnakhaz a professor

597
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 3: of logistics at Sindebosch University and director of the Game Group.

598
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: Thanks for your timer to appreciate it. So, if this

599
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: plan is followed, if it's implemented properly, how would our

600
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: rail network change, what are the major reaches that we

601
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: would see over the next few years, I presume over

602
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: the longer term. Really, thank you for the invite.

603
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 12: I really appreciate that. It's very interesting. I think the

604
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 12: first thing I want to say about this and I

605
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 12: and I listened to your comment about the Soviet there's

606
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 12: sefey correlation, which I do some much think can understand.

607
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 12: But this is the this is the right thing to

608
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 12: do because what we had up to now, so we

609
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 12: had a railway that was part of a business. That

610
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 12: business is only stress and then you make decisions that

611
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 12: is good for the business. You know, if you have

612
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 12: limited money to invest, limited way in which you can move,

613
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 12: you would go for your co line and your iron

614
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 12: our line, and the things that the country is really

615
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 12: neat in terms of development does not get done. But

616
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 12: you have here this is a real plan to use

617
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 12: their way as a development too, in the correct way.

618
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 12: And I think what it will see we will see

619
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 12: most importantly, and this is and I'm also glad I

620
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 12: saw in the press announcement, the Minister refer to that

621
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 12: old bowel. Now their Roads Act did a lot fast.

622
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 12: It's a ment that government's institutional role to give us

623
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 12: roads good roads. And if you think about why our

624
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 12: logistics work well on the road side and we have

625
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 12: the bets best trucking operation of all our big speiers,

626
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 12: the reason why it works well because some rolls do

627
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 12: us with roads and we have private sector trucks. What

628
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 12: we have now is that the Minister's made a lot

629
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 12: of effort in making sure that we arrange private sector

630
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 12: access to the rail as you know. But we now

631
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 12: need to need to get that oil road fixed and

632
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 12: in order to do that, we need to have that

633
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 12: split in ownership. The ownership of that railways must get

634
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 12: out of Transmit. It must go to I'm not saying

635
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 12: that our plan specifically says this, and I'm talking about

636
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 12: the things that it could address, and the balls should

637
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 12: address the railways. The infrastructure of the railways should go

638
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 12: to the BOT as an agency in the same way

639
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 12: as that some roll is there. Then the government can

640
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 12: do what the government should do, and private think therail operators,

641
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 12: including Transmit, can we do what transmitor is supposed to do,

642
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 12: and I think this is a raineous things in such

643
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 12: a way that we can make that possible. I think

644
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 12: we'll probably see a smaller network. We have a twenty

645
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 12: thousand kilometer network in South Africa. At least five thousands

646
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 12: of twenty thousand really is not useful anymore and should

647
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 12: have been rationalized long ago. So we will see a

648
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 12: smaller network, you know, core network that runs next to

649
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 12: the national roads system that the next five major cities

650
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 12: is what we should concentrate on, that we should fix,

651
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 12: and that is where the big opportunity is. If you

652
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 12: think about the translits had a growth in the railway volumes,

653
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 12: all of those area volumes wasn't wasn't called an iron

654
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 12: ore and manganese. There's been absolutely none on our national

655
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 12: routes and that those systems has not being developed yet.

656
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 12: The ways in which they do it is not being

657
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 12: developed yet. The shock of the current DePaul price fuel

658
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 12: price like that we're going to see now could have

659
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 12: been at released miner wise by fifty percent on the

660
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 12: threat logistic side, if we had a way that not

661
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 12: the way should so so for sustainability revisions, for reviliance reasions,

662
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 12: we now need to develop that railway, which is not

663
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 12: a company our way, but it's a national way. As

664
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 12: far as the infrastructures concern, this is not necessary.

665
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 3: So I mean, I hear your your argument. And government

666
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: within the transport sector, as you know better than almost anyone,

667
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: has gone quite far the sort of privatization route. Look

668
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 3: at Peer two and Durban things like that. Do you

669
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 3: think it still has the appetite to go as far

670
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: as you're suggesting, I mean, it is quite far.

671
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 12: I this is what I suggested. I'm not necessarily to

672
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 12: say that's in the plan at the same time. Now,

673
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 12: now I'm going to be straight. I was at the

674
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 12: transport conference that the transport conference that you arranged two

675
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 12: weeks ago. I took part in a panel discussion there,

676
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 12: but I also listened careful what the what the economics

677
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 12: reforms are I would call him of the presidency set

678
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 12: at that conference, and that does not really Dix and

679
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 12: his views wasn't I'm not going to talk in his

680
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 12: pay are, but his views wasn't that much different from

681
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 12: what I'm saying now. I think this is the direction

682
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 12: that we probably need to go to the government for

683
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 12: me to think about how it finds the core infrastructure.

684
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 12: Then I'm not talking about the export lines. You know,

685
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 12: the co line and iron On line. They're conveyor belts

686
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 12: for some minds to the sea. They're not talking to

687
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 12: the general logistics system of South Africa. They're just convia

688
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 12: belts to some lines to the sea. I think if

689
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 12: one day to concession them those minds, we have all

690
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 12: the appetite in the world that's necessary to make sure

691
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 12: that those things work the best I think. I think

692
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 12: the call price recently went up out thirty percent, So

693
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 12: for every million tons of call that we don't export currently,

694
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 12: we lose in a region of two point two billion.

695
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 12: RAM know there's probably another fifteen million tons that quickly experted.

696
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 12: But I'm talking about the general effect system and I

697
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 12: think they I'm so glad to yeared about the National

698
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 12: master Plan. I was glad to year about the bill.

699
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 12: I'm actually quite amazed and all the things this monissais

700
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 12: are getting done. You know, she's setting up that she's

701
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 12: setting up the regulator. She made sure about private sectory access.

702
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 12: It got the first network statement and then subsequent network

703
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 12: statements published. She's now working on her own master plans.

704
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 12: She has released the draft she you know, and she's

705
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 12: talking about her elbow. She's getting a lot done and

706
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 12: they're all going in the right direction as far as

707
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 12: economic reformance concern. So this is great. It's great news.

708
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 3: So when you make your rail network smaller, so you say,

709
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: for example, a five thousand kilometers of railway railroad that

710
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: you decide you're never going to use again. This might

711
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 3: sound like a silly question, but I can't get it

712
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 3: out of my head. That does that allow you? Obviously

713
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: it allows you to concentrate your resources on other areas.

714
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,959
Speaker 3: But are you also able to use the track that's

715
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 3: being laid and use that as part of the network.

716
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: You're talking about running next to the national Road. I mean,

717
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 3: obviously it would have to be refurbished, et cetera. But

718
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: would it help I.

719
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 12: Think the track itself is that's not really I think

720
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 12: you're going to sell that a strap skills scrap steel.

721
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 12: But there's a careful process that goes around the Roway

722
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 12: lines that you don't want to use anymore, and I

723
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 12: know that the Department of Transport is working on that. For instance,

724
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 12: you protect the right of way permanently, you don't don't

725
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 12: give it away you keep that. In places like Europe

726
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 12: and Brittain, they use those cycle tracks and things like that.

727
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 12: There's a careful process the way in which you work,

728
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 12: but mostly and you're touching in a very sore point

729
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 12: as part of iconcern. We're going to need a lot

730
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 12: of steel because refurbishing rowa lines, we're going to need

731
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 12: a lot of steel. And I'm just sort of looking

732
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 12: backwards into the supply chain and start of crying again

733
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 12: about those filmws and what we are going to do

734
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 12: about that. You know, that is that is that is

735
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 12: That is quite a sad story. But no, I don't

736
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 12: think you're going to use that and the other idiot

737
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 12: railway in the world. There's probably any countries because of

738
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 12: the use of strap metal. It's quite valuable. No wagon

739
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 12: or a passenger coach or something that you're script just

740
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 12: a railway coach. There's one hundred thousand grants with strap

741
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 12: makeal that takes well. So yeah, there's a lot of

742
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 12: work of us like we're going in the right direction

743
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 12: that is today.

744
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 3: Professor Jan Havanakaz, thanks very much, indeed really appreciated Professor

745
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 3: of Logistics at the University of Sembosh and director of

746
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 3: the game group, and just this comment about cycle tracks

747
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: where railways used to be. A couple of times in

748
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 3: my life have been lucky enough, and I do cycle recreationally.

749
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 3: Let me just speak clear and you'll bump into an

750
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: area with the railroads happened to be twice actually, and

751
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: the great thing about them is that you can ride

752
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: alongside the railway because the train can't go up steep hill.

753
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: And do you know what neither can Stephen. It's seven o'clock.

754
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

755
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: o two. Let's walk little.

756
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is brought to you

757
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: by Abscess Sponsorships, proud sponsor of the absur Cape Epic,

758
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 3: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails. Abs

759
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 3: is origistered FSP lots to come in the next hour.

760
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: Of course, we will speak to Supermolele Zondie in a moment.

761
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 3: He's looking at cryptocurrencies. Tonight your take, Expert Twentre, the

762
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: managing director of Vantage Advisory. We were talking about transport

763
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 3: a moment ago, transport in terms of small businesses and

764
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: how so many new transport systems actually seem to help

765
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 3: bigger businesses an investment school. Tonight we've got a new

766
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 3: teacher in not a substitute so behave you know what

767
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 3: I mean, proper teacher Kona Tebe Bosco's portfolio manager for Africa.

768
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: Here Rebil Noniana, the VP clients managed at Prime XPT.

769
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: We're talking about the real returns in Africa. Really looking

770
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 3: forward to that conversation. Good to hear from you O

771
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: double one DOAA three H seven and two two one

772
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 3: four six, O five six seven and voice notes of

773
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 3: course seven two seven, O two one seven and two

774
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: your memories of traveling long distance by train in South Africa.

775
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 3: Believe some great stories already coming in The Lonely.

776
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: Show with Stephen Krutis Live on ninety two point seven

777
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: and one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

778
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

779
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: I was making the point last night on The Money Show.

780
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: I think it was last night about the JC and

781
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: its decision to suspend trading in the City of Joe

782
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: Berg's bonds, and I made the point that there was

783
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: no transparency about why this was happening. Why on earth

784
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: was it that this was happening. We understood, though we

785
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: did know that the financial the annual financial report for

786
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 3: the City of Joberg had not been published and that

787
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: was why the JZ took it. So I understand why

788
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 3: the JC did what it did, and I completely accept

789
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: that it had no other choice. This is the rules.

790
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 3: You have to stick by them otherwise you're suspended. But

791
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 3: my major point was, come on, Joe Big, what's going on. Well,

792
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 3: they've now put out a statement on Sense on the

793
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 3: sock Exchange news service where they sort of explain and

794
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 3: a couple of paragraphs a little bit. What they say

795
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: is that there's a dispute over technical compliance matters. That's it,

796
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 3: technical compliance matters and timing. Now I presume this is

797
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 3: with the Order to General, but I don't know more

798
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: than that, and I kind of wonder feel that when

799
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 3: you put out a statement like that, you don't really

800
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: help anybody. And the reason I think it's important to

801
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 3: put it to sense, Firstly, it is you know, the

802
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 3: forum in which your bonds have actually been suspended. Secondly,

803
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: if a politician puts it out, and I'm sorry to

804
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: have to say this, but I don't think that anyone

805
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: will believe the politician and the Order to General won't

806
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 3: comment and neither should they. That's it policy. They've stuck

807
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: to it for many years. So I just kind of

808
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 3: feel like, come on, Joebik, you know, don't tell us

809
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 3: because you say in your statement that this is not

810
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: a sign of financial distress. But we can see the

811
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 3: financial distress for two reasons. One is we know that

812
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: water is that Doebic Water is not being able to

813
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 3: keep the money it's getting as revenue at a time

814
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 3: when it really needs the revenue. It's being put into

815
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 3: the sweeping account. And that still makes no sense to

816
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: mean even the Finance Minister has to have to talk

817
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: about that in parliament. And secondly we can look around us.

818
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: So it's the same question. And keep going back to this.

819
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 3: The city of Dobek has a budget of eighty three

820
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 3: billion rand. What is there to show for it? Ten

821
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: minutes after.

822
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: Seven some money show take Thursday.

823
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: Well, it's now believe that around the world five hundred

824
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 3: and sixty million people, well over half a billion now

825
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 3: are owners of cryptocurrency and it's being viewed as an

826
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: investment here around the world. Now SARS has said tax

827
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 3: must be paid on your crypto investments, but packers seem

828
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 3: to be increasingly targeting crypto. In fact, one decentralized finance company, Drift,

829
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: has suspended all of its withdrawal of cryptos as a result,

830
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 3: spies Artech experts Good Evening, Why has Drift blocked people

831
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: from withdrawing their crypto? I can't imagine the frustration.

832
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 13: Hello Stephen, And yes, the Drift has basically blocked all

833
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 13: transactions that are happening for they're saying that the currently

834
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 13: is a live breach that's going on. So if it's live,

835
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 13: it's currently ongoing, and that's why they've decided to do this.

836
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 13: And there's a belief that for example, Setech, which is

837
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 13: a blockchain security firm, has said that they believe that

838
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 13: as much as one hundred and thirty six million years

839
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 13: starars could have been stolen already, and that figure is

840
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 13: almost or over double that in the estimation that a

841
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 13: come which is a crypto and an lystics company that

842
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 13: they've put out, they say close to three hundred million

843
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 13: US dollars could have been stolen already. So because it

844
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 13: is live and it seems to have been currently ongoing,

845
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 13: they decided that they are blocking just about everyone and

846
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 13: anyone from withdrawing anything from their platform.

847
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: Has there been a big increase in the attacks that

848
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 3: are sort of targeting crypto in this way? I mean,

849
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: has it become the sort of thing that people do

850
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 3: and we know that crime changes very quickly.

851
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 7: Oh totally.

852
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 13: There is an increase that that's been happening over the

853
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 13: last couple of years, to the point that the United

854
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 13: Nations decided to put together a working group that's was

855
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 13: looking at the increase because they're saying that it sort

856
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 13: of threatens even relations between countries and securities, international security

857
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 13: as well if this continues to happen. So there is

858
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 13: an increase that has even been noted by the United Nations,

859
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 13: and this could actually potentially be probably the I guess

860
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 13: the breach of of crypto that's that's happened since people

861
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 13: started trading in crypto.

862
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean that that really does make it quite

863
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: a thing. I mean, this is always the same question,

864
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: how does it happen? Everyone tells us crypto is supposed

865
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 3: to be so safe. I mean, does someone steal a code,

866
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 3: does someone I don't know slip something into a tequila.

867
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 3: It's a very strange thing.

868
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 13: So basically it seems like these are organizations that there's

869
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 13: a huge belief. Even the United Nations says this, and

870
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 13: there a few analytics and companies that look into this.

871
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 13: There's a belief that there's a lot of these companies.

872
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 13: In fact, the majority, they say come from the country

873
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 13: of North Korea, which can't get money in any other way.

874
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,479
Speaker 13: And so what they do is to find these big

875
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 13: firms or crypto exchanges and they sit on there and

876
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,479
Speaker 13: then they infiltrated through uh IT, through individuals that could

877
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 13: be there, or through particular by sending by sending them codes.

878
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 13: And also there have even been people on the ground

879
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 13: food soldiers that have been utilized, especially in the US

880
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 13: or where the people have been arrested for doing this

881
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 13: type of work in the US, where there would plant

882
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 13: somebody through a computer and then they find one computer

883
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 13: and then they infiltrate the organization through that computer to

884
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 13: move money out of your of your walness.

885
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 3: Sure, so when I've been hacked, and there was a

886
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 3: Disney hack year a couple of years ago, and I

887
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: realized one Black Friday, not the last one, the one

888
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 3: before a large amount of money had left my credit card.

889
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 3: I was able to the bank. The bank paid me

890
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 3: back the next morning. Once I once I pointed this out,

891
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 3: and I did it as quickly as I could, and

892
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 3: that was I was told. Because the money was sort

893
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 3: of still in the banking system, it was quite easy

894
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 3: for the bank to get it back. With crypto, it's

895
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 3: a very different system. Once the money's gone, the money's gone.

896
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: So what happens in a case like this, a lot

897
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: of people.

898
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 13: Lose their money and ever to actually get it back.

899
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 13: And the interesting thing is that you can see the movements,

900
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 13: so you can see that it's actually moved out of there,

901
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,959
Speaker 13: went in there. But at the same time, you can't

902
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 13: really do anything about it because it's centralized and and

903
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 13: and how crypto has always been pitched to us is

904
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 13: that it is beautiful because one it's decentralized, it's controlled

905
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 13: by humans, it's not controlled by central government.

906
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 12: But these could be the dangers, right because with.

907
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 13: The the increase in in the hacks that go that

908
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 13: are going on right now, the theft of crypto that's

909
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 13: currently going on, you can't really get it back. And

910
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 13: once it's gone, it's gone a lot of the time.

911
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 3: I mean, that's why it's so attractive to North Korea

912
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 3: and why it's so hard to sort of bust them

913
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 3: in the process. And if you do, if it's back

914
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: by the North Korean government and all the evidence points

915
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: that way, they're not going to care.

916
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 13: Well, that's the thing. And there have been cases where

917
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 13: it hasn't been just the North Koreans yesterday. They seem

918
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 13: to have been found to bear as wantable for most

919
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 13: of it. There have been several cases, especially in the US,

920
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 13: and a lot of this happens in the US. Several

921
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 13: cases where as citizens of the US have been found.

922
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 13: I remember one case of young people in their twenties

923
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 13: about how there are quarters that they decided to buy

924
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 13: private aeroplanes and they were spending money in nightclubs and

925
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 13: they were giving money away for free and that's how

926
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 13: they got caught. So there are individuals who also, in

927
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 13: their own personal capacity, will decide to do this kind

928
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 13: of thing. But yes, that's why it's attracted to North

929
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 13: Korea because no one can it doesn't sit somewhere where

930
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 13: it can then say as usay, when you had your

931
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 13: issue with your banks, even are your banks, it hasn't

932
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 13: really gone out yet, it's waiting to go out, so

933
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 13: we can give it. And also because it's insured in

934
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 13: that particular manner. In this case, it's not insured. So

935
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 13: once it's gone, it's gone, and it can be utilized

936
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 13: in whichever other way in a different territory.

937
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: Okay, so this was a cyber hack. We presume there

938
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: are other crimes that involved the theft of crypto. How

939
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: those happened? I mean someone going along sort of trying

940
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: to steal USB sticks and things.

941
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 13: Well, gee, it seems like there's also been in some

942
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 13: European countries an increase in kidnappings where there will kidnapping individual.

943
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 13: Obviously they follow them, they do know that they have crypto,

944
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 13: because there are a number of crypto millionaires nowadays, and

945
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 13: then once they've kidnapped the individual, they then force them

946
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 13: to move their crypto out of their walnuts and movements

947
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 13: into whoever the kidnappers are. And so the various methods

948
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 13: that are being used, and some of them are quite

949
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 13: physical and some of them do harm to the to

950
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 13: the body of a person as and where they're asking

951
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 13: you to move money yourself, because they've gotten a whole

952
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 13: fease and it's not cyber crime as it has been

953
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 13: in this case, as it has been in very many cases.

954
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 3: So when a crime like this happens. I mean Drift

955
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 3: says that it's been hacked. How easy is it to

956
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 3: serve by law enforcement. I mean, once the people have

957
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 3: the money is at the end of it.

958
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 13: It's not very easy, especially in a situation like this.

959
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 13: And that's why the United Nations in its reports with

960
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 13: this working group, they're calling for almost like a different

961
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 13: countries and force border initiatives that are going to try

962
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 13: and help and solve such crimes from happening. I'm not

963
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 13: sure how easy it is if you are dealing as

964
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 13: they said that most of them happened from the country

965
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 13: of North Korea, which is a state that's basically closed, or.

966
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 12: From much of the world.

967
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 13: Not sure how easy it is if it's going to

968
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 13: involve the North Koreans. But if it involves individuals and

969
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 13: organizations and groups in other countries, then maybe it does

970
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 13: need that sort of cooperation between various countries because what

971
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 13: would be happening is that they're targeting individuals possibly who

972
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 13: are based in a different country where different laws apply,

973
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 13: and that's why then they need to be cooperate with

974
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 13: law and between law enforcement in various countries.

975
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 3: So when something like this happens to Drift right, and

976
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 3: it has to eventually suspend all of the crypto withdrawals.

977
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 3: It has to explain why this has happened. I mean,

978
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 3: isn't this going to be the end of a company?

979
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 3: I would think, I mean.

980
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 13: You would think, because that be a lot of trust

981
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 13: that would be lost as well, because whatever you investing

982
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 13: that you were using them for your and you expected

983
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 13: that that restoring your crypto and it should be safe.

984
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 13: So that is that loss of trust, especially as it's

985
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 13: the biggest hack, possibly because they did say that it

986
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 13: was currently ongoing. We're not sure how much damage is

987
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 13: going to be caused in the end. There is an

988
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 13: estimation that puts US to close to three hundred millions

989
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 13: dollars already, So a lot of trust would be lost,

990
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 13: and yes, it's going to impact them quite negatively. And

991
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 13: if they still want to stay alive, then that be

992
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 13: going back to individuals who would have lost, as we say,

993
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 13: hundreds of millions of US starners and say well stay

994
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 13: with That's not sure how many people are going to

995
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 13: stay with a company. That's what I have lost hundreds

996
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,919
Speaker 13: of millions of years starners of their investments with them.

997
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 3: No sure. Supermolela ZONDI thanks so much, really appreciate the

998
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,240
Speaker 3: tech expert. Just a little bit of a I suppose

999
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: a warning as always. I mean, this kind of thing

1000
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 3: can happen to banks too. That just the issues around

1001
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: crypto are fascinating. Twenty minutes after seven seven two with

1002
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 3: Stephen Courts.

1003
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: Email him on Stephen at seven o two dot co

1004
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: dot z.

1005
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 3: Just been mulling over what happened on American TV last night,

1006
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: the sort of greatest reality TV show of our time,

1007
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 3: talking of course about the US President Donald Trump and

1008
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: how markets presume, based on some of the comments that

1009
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 3: he had made earlier in the day, that there was

1010
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 3: actually going to be a change of policy around Iran,

1011
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 3: that we were going to see the end of the

1012
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 3: bombing of Iran by the US and Israel that might

1013
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 3: maybe allow the straight up moves to open. And of

1014
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 3: course what he saw was the complete opposite. And I

1015
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 3: don't know how someone can really look at a TV

1016
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: camera and say we're going to bomb them back to

1017
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 3: the Stone Age because that's where they belong. I mean,

1018
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 3: only it's an old fashioned phrase. Only a barbarian says that,

1019
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 3: And I don't really want to be route to barbarians.

1020
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 3: Only someone who doesn't give a fig, doesn't care for

1021
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 3: anyone else could possibly say such a thing. And the

1022
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 3: problem with that is that it is clear now that

1023
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 3: there are no limits on the behavior, and that I

1024
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 3: think is what must scare markets the most. But that's

1025
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: kind of the one side of it. There is another

1026
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 3: slight sort of possible positive and maybe I'm just looking

1027
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 3: for a bit of a silver lining here, which is

1028
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 3: that the longer this goes on, the more unpopular the

1029
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 3: war is going to be among people in the US.

1030
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 3: And that's the key thing, because that is going to

1031
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 3: possibly lead to the end of him having the kind

1032
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 3: of political dominance and the people around him that he

1033
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,959
Speaker 3: does now. So just some thoughts about it, but yeah,

1034
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 3: I find it a very sort of scary thing that

1035
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 3: someone can look at a camera and say twenty two

1036
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: minutes after seven.

1037
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: The money shows the small business focus.

1038
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 3: Well, the big focus of the week has been on transport.

1039
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 3: You heard us talking about railways earlier. But the other

1040
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: big issue, of course has been fuel prices. It's a

1041
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 3: reminder of the problems we have and the impact of

1042
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 3: that on smaller firms. Long Clear Twentre is the managing

1043
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 3: director of Advantage advisory long clerdoor, good evening. I mean,

1044
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 3: almost all businesses really don't have a choice. We have

1045
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: to use the rail network. What impact does that have

1046
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 3: on them.

1047
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 5: For delivering seven You, just as is Steven one, you

1048
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 5: have to tread carefully, especially when it comes to managing

1049
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 5: your cost especially in costs, and we know that the

1050
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 5: fuel is.

1051
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 14: One of those costs that you can't actually manage and

1052
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 14: therefore one the other option there of course is your

1053
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 14: transport cost and that has a huge impact in terms

1054
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 14: of your pricing. And we know that in South Africa

1055
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 14: we basically move about sixty percent of our goods are

1056
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 14: basically transported by using roads. And we've seen that the

1057
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 14: logistic sector has really has had so many challenges considering

1058
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 14: the fact that even that road infrastructure itself, it's not

1059
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 14: something that is actually working efficiently as a supposed to be.

1060
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 14: You have had as well as the President a few

1061
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 14: weeks ago, you know, in terms of the conference the

1062
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 14: Transport conference as held that where he said, I mean

1063
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 14: we are losing over billion runs a day as a

1064
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 14: result of the transport inefficiencies. So therefore it is a

1065
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 14: very important element that is really impacting essm is and

1066
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 14: quite happy that now there is at least a massiplant

1067
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 14: that has come true as a result of real how

1068
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 14: to we improve and make sure that our racism is

1069
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 14: efficient and basically regius the heavy load that is on

1070
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 14: their own infrastructure.

1071
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 3: So there's supposed to be a big investment in real

1072
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 3: we were talking about that twenty minutes ago. Is that

1073
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 3: going to help? Will it somehow kind of help more

1074
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 3: established players? I mean, so often that happens, doesn't it

1075
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 3: a big change comes along and actually helps the established players?

1076
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: Could that happen here?

1077
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 5: Knows? Even interesting enough?

1078
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 14: You know when I heard about this, must've planned, I mean,

1079
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 14: I said, I said to myself, and I'm sure you've

1080
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 14: reported of this as well, way back ten years ago.

1081
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 14: If you remember, Trust, it had what they used to

1082
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 14: call it MTS, the market demand strategy where they're blending

1083
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 14: to invest over three hundred billion in terms of you know,

1084
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 14: a TFR as well as the racist in yourself, and

1085
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 14: therefore all of that started. But I run think it

1086
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 14: was actually you know, even completed at the end of

1087
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 14: the day. And therefore when we hear that there's another

1088
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 14: plan as well that is coming into place, you already said. Look,

1089
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 14: but I mean trust that had already started to do

1090
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 14: this way back, and where did it all go wrong.

1091
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 14: We know what has happened in terms of you know,

1092
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 14: the governance, you know impact around a TRANSTT. So therefore

1093
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 14: what is important as much as now we have this

1094
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 14: massive plan, but what is important always say to the

1095
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 14: policymakers is that let us create all of these master players,

1096
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 14: all of these reforms at the back, and let's consider

1097
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 14: how SMS would be part of that particular ability. Most

1098
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 14: of these reforms, most of the time, they usually benefit

1099
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 14: big players, and we still remain as SMBs at the back,

1100
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 14: and therefore it really contracts what we kept saying to say. Look,

1101
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 14: the job creation at the end of the day comes

1102
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 14: from the smaller and media businesses. But if you've got

1103
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 14: huge infrastructure programs that way, you find that the players

1104
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 14: that are going to be benefitting is either international players

1105
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 14: that whil is bring just two percent of their localization

1106
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 14: into it no verifies so or that in purchase of

1107
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 14: all that localization.

1108
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 5: So therefore is.

1109
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 14: Very important that as we'll continue then to enroll this

1110
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 14: master plan, I hope that sm ease will have to

1111
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 14: be considered to be part of that volition.

1112
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 5: And great critical room.

1113
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 3: So how do you how do we make sure that happens.

1114
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 3: I mean, we obviously need you need to start your

1115
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 3: campaign now. But I mean would that mean that they

1116
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 3: get preferential access? Would it just mean they're part of

1117
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: the design of it maybe to make sure it suits them.

1118
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 5: So what what I like about?

1119
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 14: So the FILA, we do have policies, We do have

1120
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 14: policies of stilling. We do have a localization policy that

1121
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 14: is clear in terms of good sectors have to deploy

1122
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 14: and we have to use some of the resources, the

1123
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 14: goods and the services that are locally manufacturing. But when

1124
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 14: we've picked up at the end of the day, you

1125
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 14: find that that implementation of that particular program is not

1126
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 14: audited in terms of ensuring that indeed it does meet

1127
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 14: those coalization targets. So the moment of policies, however, in

1128
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 14: terms of monitoring and enforcing them that indeed they're basically

1129
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 14: implemented of an issue.

1130
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 5: We've seen that as well.

1131
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 14: I mean with trans that in terms of some of

1132
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 14: the conducts that they've signed to find that those localizations

1133
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 14: would have been there as part of the tagets. But

1134
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 14: when it comes to implementation, then they're left off. So

1135
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 14: what is very important is to bring organizations like SAPs.

1136
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 14: They used to they fall under techcr so they used

1137
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 14: to be really big part and the policy makers or

1138
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 14: the monitor or the entity that monitors localization bring them

1139
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 14: into into all of these programs to ensure that this

1140
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 14: thing is reported yearly to Parliament in terms of if

1141
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 14: we are moving ahead or not.

1142
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 3: Can smaller companies work together? So if for example, you

1143
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: have a rail system and one's got to send container

1144
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 3: or a shipment and won't fill the container, they work

1145
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 3: together with another smaller company. I mean they might be

1146
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 3: in the same space, they might be sort of semi competitors.

1147
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 3: But my experience of smaller companies that are semi competitors,

1148
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 3: they're usually quite good friends to.

1149
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 5: So then look in twenty two to six, you know,

1150
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 5: and it's what we've been saying to.

1151
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 14: Us is we are in an you know right now

1152
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 14: that you have to collaborate if it rese your competitors,

1153
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 14: because these are the different times that require transsignations in place.

1154
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 14: So therefore collaboration is the world that has to be

1155
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 14: is throughout were print up in ter Many for instance,

1156
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 14: that now you have systems where you've got these load

1157
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 14: sharing apps that you can use. If you've got the

1158
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 14: home truck, for instance, you've got to load and therefore

1159
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 14: you share your root and then when you return at

1160
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 14: last you can get some other loads.

1161
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 5: That particular what it.

1162
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 14: Does a void situation where you're paying so much cost

1163
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 14: you're coming back with anti loads at the end of

1164
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 14: the day, and therefore you're minimizing those course. And these

1165
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 14: are the times where competit are some somehow whereas possible

1166
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 14: have to sit down and say, listen, how do we

1167
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 14: share their sources. I've got storage for ins is a

1168
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 14: big storage that you're not using. How about you shared

1169
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 14: partly some of your storage with some of the players

1170
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 14: that they can actually use that and you save quite

1171
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 14: a lot of money in relation to what you would

1172
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 14: have been cut. So it requires a different thinking for

1173
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 14: enough of business owners as a period that we're at

1174
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 14: right now to say, look, it's all of a collaboration at

1175
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 14: the end of the day, more than just a.

1176
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 3: Little long Clado, thanks so much. Clato On twentwies, Managing

1177
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 3: Director of Advantage Advisory, The Money Show Investment School, twenty six,

1178
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 3: twenty four minutes now to eight o'clock. My timing has

1179
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 3: already gone on the weekend hasn't even started. So when

1180
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 3: we look at where we're going to put money for

1181
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 3: the longer term, where would you look around? Well, yes,

1182
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 3: if we say AI stocks and all the rest, but

1183
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 3: actually we probably need to spend a lot more time

1184
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 3: looking at the investment case closer to home. And I'm

1185
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: talking specifically about Africa, and tonight we'll focus on this

1186
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 3: for Investment School this evening. Africa's next decade. Where will

1187
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 3: the real returns come from? Koso is a portfolio manager

1188
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 3: for Africa for Marsi Asset Management. He's in the studio now,

1189
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 3: kill Tebe, thanks very much indeed for coming in. Kira

1190
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 3: Bilbert Noniana is the VP Clients Manager of Prime XPT

1191
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 3: who's joining us as well tonight. Kier, thank you, gentlemen.

1192
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 3: Let me just sort of startle the question for you,

1193
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 3: kil We know how some of the world's fastest growing

1194
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 3: economies are actually on our continent. They're kind of very

1195
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: near to us in so many ways, and yet people

1196
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 3: and you think of sort of American money, or European money,

1197
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 3: or Japanese money, they're not really putting that money into Africa.

1198
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 3: You're a fund manager, why do you think people have

1199
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 3: a misconception.

1200
01:03:54,320 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 15: Yeah, thank you, Steven. Their first big misconception of investing

1201
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 15: in Africa. It's actually people's assumption that Africa is a country,

1202
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 15: not a continent. Yes, at the end of the day,

1203
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 15: Africa is a continent with fifty four unique countries.

1204
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 10: You have the oil rich West, you have.

1205
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 15: The agriculturally endowed East, which is actually becoming a fintech hub,

1206
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,959
Speaker 15: and then in the Southern Africa you have a more

1207
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 15: you can say, diversified economies, mostly an cut by the

1208
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 15: South Africa.

1209
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 10: And the other perception is that of risk.

1210
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 15: You know, there's a perception out there that Africa is

1211
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 15: riskier than it is, and it's actually a perception. There's

1212
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 15: been a study that has been done that has looked

1213
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 15: at the data for the past hundred plus years that

1214
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 15: actually shows that you should look at dead in the world.

1215
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 15: Africa has the lowest default rate in the world for

1216
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 15: the past hundred years, less than three percent, compared to

1217
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 15: South America at fourteen percent, and is Europe at around

1218
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 15: seven percent.

1219
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, yeah, that's it. That perception of

1220
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: Africa is a risky place for money. It's really persistent.

1221
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a very persistent kind of perception that

1222
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,439
Speaker 3: the rest of the world can't seem to shake off.

1223
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 16: Yes, I think ordinarily comes back down to data availability,

1224
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 16: and I think when the market looks at when the

1225
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 16: market looks at Africa as a continent, it's can we

1226
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 16: get real data in order to be able to price risk?

1227
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 16: And for me, it's just a simple go on Google

1228
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 16: or go on internal trying to find the data on

1229
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 16: on on Africa. And I think then then investment analysts

1230
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 16: and money managers off shore and I'm speaking outside of

1231
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 16: the African continent, then go where's this data? How are

1232
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 16: we going to price the risk? And ordinary and what

1233
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 16: are also also learned is I mean you need a

1234
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 16: real FaceTime value with African markets because the markets in

1235
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 16: Africa are so fragmented. As Ko said, they are fifty

1236
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 16: four different markets which have fifty four different cultures and

1237
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 16: fifty four different ways of doing business. And when you

1238
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 16: put this whole continent as one country, you often come

1239
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 16: to come to the fact that you're going to take

1240
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 16: a South African strategy implemented in Nigeria, and once it fails,

1241
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 16: you say Africa is a failure. And I think it's

1242
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,919
Speaker 16: a different way of looking at this market as well,

1243
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 16: that the world needs to look and it needs to

1244
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 16: look at themselves as capital.

1245
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a bit like saying sort of

1246
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 3: you know, Russia and Britain are the same country. I

1247
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 3: mean they're obviously not would be the sort of one

1248
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: way of looking at it, just because they're sort of

1249
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:54,919
Speaker 3: based on the same kind of continental shelf. Kio. When

1250
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 3: you talk about real returns in Africa, I mean, are

1251
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 3: you talking just about financial and so are there other

1252
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 3: returns because we know there does need to be lots

1253
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 3: of investment in infrastructure, for example, in education things like that.

1254
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 3: So where I'm going with this is that the returns

1255
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 3: are financial, but maybe not just financial.

1256
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 15: Yes, financial returns are real on the continent, you get them.

1257
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 15: I mean, we have been investing on this continent for

1258
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 15: the past that are part of the last fifteen years ourselves,

1259
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 15: and we have generated a real US dollar financial returns.

1260
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 15: But then there are other returns that we don't talk about.

1261
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 15: They just general economic development and the impact that we

1262
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 15: have seen on the continent. I mean, you look at

1263
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 15: the past fifteen years since I've been investing in this country,

1264
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 15: you can see the impact of the investment that has

1265
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 15: gone through. I mean to look at Kenya ten years

1266
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 15: ago in and you look at Kenya today, two different countries.

1267
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 15: You go to Naarobi today, you'll be surprised. You should

1268
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 15: see people more than an hour from Naarobi to the

1269
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 15: airport today. You can do that in twenty minutes. Those

1270
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 15: are the real impact of investments outside the financial returns.

1271
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,719
Speaker 3: Does that make for people who are really only interested

1272
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 3: in their money? Does that make a difference do you think?

1273
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 3: I mean, there are ways you can if you're selling

1274
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 3: the case for Africa, use that quite compellingly that they

1275
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 3: want their own money to grow first.

1276
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 15: Yes, like I said, there are real returns on the continent.

1277
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 15: I'll make an example. Did huge work actually in our

1278
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 15: team at MAZI looking at investments in Africa for the

1279
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 15: past ten years two end of twenty twenty five. You

1280
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 15: look at the data. I mean, you look at any

1281
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 15: growth of the company's in US dollars, including all the

1282
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 15: evaluations that have happened in the continent in the past

1283
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:08,480
Speaker 15: ten years. Africa has given you ning's growth in US dollars,

1284
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 15: And most importantly, you look at the dividends that you

1285
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 15: have received, cumulative dividends that you have received in the

1286
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 15: past ten years on the continent, most of the companies

1287
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 15: have paid you more than their share price two three

1288
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 15: times are today's share price in dividends, yet it derated.

1289
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 3: Garabille. We talk and when we think of things that

1290
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 3: have changed in Africa, we can really talk a lot

1291
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 3: about fintech because so much has happened there. You look

1292
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 3: at impsa flatter wave on the JC, now Optasia. How

1293
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 3: much more does this have to grow? Now? On one level,

1294
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 3: it might be easy to say, well, the early adopters

1295
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 3: have earlyly adopted that we have the systems running. But

1296
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 3: if you actually look at the share price of fintech companies,

1297
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 3: I mean they're racing ahead because clearly the market believes

1298
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 3: that actually the best is still before them.

1299
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 16: And when you look at Africa's fintech, it's it's really

1300
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 16: basic because I don't think there's any unicorn which is

1301
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 16: coming out of it, because we still have real life

1302
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,719
Speaker 16: problems to solve, and this fintech solves something as simple

1303
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 16: as remittance, just moving money across border between expats maybe

1304
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 16: who are from Zimbabwe working in South Africa, or people

1305
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 16: sending money from overseas to uh to to to to

1306
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 16: their families locally. And I think it's it's it's this

1307
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 16: sort of environment which gives rise even to Web three

1308
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 16: types of types of technologies. I mean, I'm just talking

1309
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 16: about one of the deals which was recently done by Tether,

1310
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 16: which is a US issuer of stable coins, which one

1311
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,560
Speaker 16: of the fits the most popular stable coins around is

1312
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 16: the usd t coin investing in a in a company

1313
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 16: like Katani Pey and containing paste, a non listed asset.

1314
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:08,759
Speaker 16: But it's it's it's easing treasury flows within the African

1315
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 16: continent where there are some shortages of US dollar using

1316
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 16: Web three technology and stable coin infrastructure. And I mean

1317
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 16: this grows right across I mean, as you say, Safari Com,

1318
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 16: you go into a financial a moment where master con

1319
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 16: just did just did an initial investment into Emptyn's moment

1320
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 16: which was quite significant.

1321
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 10: And this just shows the potential of.

1322
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 16: A young, young, young continent with the medium age of nineteen,

1323
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:47,440
Speaker 16: which is digitalizing and has less access to financial services.

1324
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: But I mean that must be right. I mean, you

1325
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,799
Speaker 3: would think the case for investing in fintech in Africa

1326
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 3: right now is an incredibly strong one and probably will

1327
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 3: be for at least the next twenty years.

1328
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 10: Yes, that's true.

1329
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 15: I mean, if you think about it, I mean has

1330
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 15: already mentioned the how basic the current offerings are.

1331
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 10: But it's just that the pipeline, right, it's just the.

1332
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 15: Infrastructure at the base, if you think about it, just

1333
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 15: doing the simple things access, giving people access, moving money

1334
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 15: from Yre and Johannes back to grandmother or relatives in

1335
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 15: the rural areas.

1336
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 10: That is just the basics. But this pipe needs to work.

1337
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 15: The future here is the ecosystem is what can we

1338
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 15: do with insurance, financial services, other sophisticated financial services products

1339
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 15: that loans, like payments. It is already there in some

1340
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 15: other countries when it comes to payments, like in Kenya

1341
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 15: with them pass away. Now you find someone who is

1342
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 15: a distributor of let's say a beer can pay the

1343
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 15: manufacturer here in the case maybe in the case of

1344
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 15: South Africa and eval into sab they can pay with

1345
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 15: the embassa and when they on sell to the Atlantess,

1346
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 15: their plans paid them minute an emphassas who no cash

1347
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 15: moves around. It's it's already there. They are just signing

1348
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:18,799
Speaker 15: up the messions now and we talk about investments now

1349
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 15: with fintech people in future will be able to people

1350
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 15: who didn't have access, for example, to the Johannesbeg stock

1351
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 15: Exchange will be able to invest in the Johannespegers stock

1352
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 15: Exchange or even South African bonds or other investment asset

1353
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 15: classes that they didn't have through the use of their

1354
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,600
Speaker 15: phone due to fintech. That's what the opportunities that it

1355
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 15: provides with daily pricing and people can see their returns

1356
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 15: on a day to day basis, on a real time basis.

1357
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 15: In the morning when they wake up, they know exactly

1358
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 15: how much they make. They can easily withdraw their money, use,

1359
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 15: easily put money in.

1360
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 10: That's where the future is going.

1361
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 3: Here. When we need to talk about agriculture, because agriculture

1362
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 3: is huge in Africa and it's going to get bigger,

1363
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 3: there can be no doubt about it. You would think

1364
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 3: that there will be a lot more funding from institutional investors.

1365
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 3: There is something holding capital bad.

1366
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, And I think it's some mistakes which governments are

1367
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 16: making because for me, the African Continental Free Trade Agreement

1368
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 16: Trade Area should be the multiplier of that across across

1369
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 16: the African continent. I just think right now you're finding

1370
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 16: you're finding that in most pension funds, specifically Nigeria Ghana,

1371
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 16: there's a lot of prescribed assets which does not allow

1372
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:48,599
Speaker 16: investment investment into growth stocks and and agriculture is some

1373
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 16: of these growth stocks and and and the problem with

1374
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 16: that is that going into the future, you need to

1375
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 16: unlock some of that capital to be able to go

1376
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 16: and invest in in such and in such deals when

1377
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 16: we come home as well, I mean there's so little

1378
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 16: funds that focus just purely as on ex South Africa

1379
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 16: Africa play. And with that being said, it's because of

1380
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 16: trying to manage shareholder expectations to short term returns and

1381
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 16: looking at Africa as a long term player looking for

1382
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 16: long term funding. And I think specifically in agriculture, there's

1383
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 16: so many stocks right now which I think of fait

1384
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 16: really undervalue, specifically in coffee production, in soft commodities such

1385
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 16: as palm oil, which I think in the future, had

1386
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 16: capital been unlocked, you'd see the rerating of some of

1387
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 16: those shares across the continent.

1388
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 3: When we saw a coffee prices did last year with

1389
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 3: that big shortage as well, your investment school on the

1390
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 3: Money Show, it's eleven minutes now to eight the time

1391
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 3: kion Tebo Basejo's portfolio manager for Africa for MASSI Asset Managers.

1392
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 3: Kierra bill Ware Nonjana is the VIP Clients manager at

1393
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 3: Prime XPT. We take your cause too and your Voice

1394
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 3: notes seven two seven O two one seven O two.

1395
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 11: The Money Show Stephen Krutez is brought to you by

1396
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,599
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1397
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Speaker 11: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails.

1398
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 10: Apps are raised FSP The Money Show Investment.

1399
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 3: School nine minutes now to eighth the time talking about

1400
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 3: the investment case for Africa, Africa's next decade, where will

1401
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 3: the real returns come from? Kon Tepovasko's portfolio manager for

1402
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 3: Africa at Masiasset Management. Kill bill Ware Noniana is the

1403
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 3: VIP Clients manager at Prime XPT.

1404
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 8: Kio.

1405
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 3: We spoke about fintech and we spoken about agriculture, but

1406
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 3: infrastructure and energy are going to be big issues and

1407
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:51,840
Speaker 3: even for a long time here. Energy is going to

1408
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 3: be quite a big issue and lots of different ways

1409
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 3: to see it. Some of those projects are quite going

1410
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 3: to be quite big. Those infrastructure issues, they require quite

1411
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 3: a lot of complex funding if you're a funded do

1412
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 3: you just put your money in and leave it there

1413
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 3: for twenty years? Are you sort of patient or do

1414
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 3: you need do you need to do it in a

1415
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 3: different way.

1416
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 15: Let me start, Steven, Let me start with just the

1417
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 15: need for infrastructure. I mean they future economy or the

1418
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 15: Fourth Industrial Revolution or whatever economy you call it. I

1419
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,440
Speaker 15: mean today we're talking about AI, We're talking about fintech,

1420
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 15: we're talking about cryptocurrencies, all those things, e commerce, they

1421
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 15: still need traditional infrastructure to work. AI does not work

1422
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 15: without power and abundance of it and ship power. That's

1423
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 15: what countries need. E Commerce is not going to work

1424
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 15: without functioning roads. I mean if you order pizza now,

1425
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 15: you want to a piece to arrive in time, fresh

1426
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 15: and not messed up by the road. Yeah right, yeah,

1427
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 15: so we still need Africa still need traditional infrastructure. Talking

1428
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 15: about funding or how these projects are funded, Firstly, there

1429
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 15: are currently the world has moved on. There are a

1430
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 15: lot of innovative funding solutions out there in terms of

1431
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 15: how to fund infrastructure. Of course, firstly the governments and

1432
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 15: other financial institutions like the IFC needs to help in

1433
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 15: terms of the risk in the products. But also we

1434
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 15: have a lot of infrastructure funds coming out there. In

1435
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,560
Speaker 15: for example, at Marsica, currently we do have an infrastructure

1436
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 15: fund that invests specifically on infrastructure projects. Yes, they are

1437
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 15: long ternat, they take a very long time, but the

1438
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 15: cash flows are there, the cash flows are positive, and

1439
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:54,600
Speaker 15: the returns are attractive.

1440
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you see it? I mean, this is

1441
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 3: part of a big international change, and we still have

1442
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 3: millions of people who don't really have basic electricity, so

1443
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 3: we need that. We need renewable energy too, but the

1444
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 3: first and most important thing is to get cheap power

1445
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 3: to people. And that's true.

1446
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:14,559
Speaker 16: And I mean if you had to do a heat

1447
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 16: map in terms of where electric electrification is almost close

1448
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 16: to saturation, it's probably only in Sadek And I mean

1449
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,719
Speaker 16: this will be South Africa, all the countries surrounding South Africa.

1450
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:30,640
Speaker 16: Once you enter Central Africa, you go towards West Africa,

1451
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 16: those numbers look a little bit more dire. So you

1452
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,720
Speaker 16: will need an investment into renewable energy because we have

1453
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 16: great soular power microgrids. But I mean it's all going

1454
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 16: to come back down to terms of these loans. And

1455
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 16: for me, the problem with private credit and infrastructure funding

1456
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 16: right now is is that juxtaposition between shareholders needing returns

1457
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:57,839
Speaker 16: right now and these projects being long term returns because

1458
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 16: you can't find a forty year development project through a

1459
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,599
Speaker 16: ten year loan because now those cash flows are going

1460
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 16: to be out of quilta and somebody who's going to

1461
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 16: require a higher rate of return for the in ten

1462
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 16: your loan to be taking on forty year risk. And

1463
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 16: for me, it's what Kio says that I've seen needs

1464
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 16: to come to the table. Do you find the African

1465
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 16: Development Bank needs to come to the table as well

1466
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 16: as governments. They need to find ways in order to

1467
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 16: work with the private sector in order to de risk

1468
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 16: some of these infrastructure projects which I think the African

1469
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 16: continent is going to need an abundance of. When we

1470
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 16: look at the population growth rate being projected to be

1471
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 16: about two and a half billion in ten years time.

1472
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 3: It's so interesting to see how it's going to plan out. Kio.

1473
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 3: The African Continental Free Trade Area. Now, let me just

1474
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 3: put my political point first. Every African president will talk

1475
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,040
Speaker 3: about it and embrace it, and the bigger the economy,

1476
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 3: the more that countries people will oppose it. Right, and

1477
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 3: that's the case with South Africa. I mean, if you

1478
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,360
Speaker 3: had a campaign in South Africa for the free movement

1479
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 3: of people, you're going to battle. Okay, So it can

1480
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 3: seem to me sitting here in Johannesburg that in fact,

1481
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 3: this free trade area isn't doing very much. I know,

1482
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 3: the rest of the continent is very different, so it's

1483
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,240
Speaker 3: very uneven. Is it really going to change anything?

1484
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 15: Yes, I mean it is still very early talking about

1485
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 15: the Africa Free Trade Agreement is still very early in

1486
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:35,759
Speaker 15: terms of execution, but long term we are very positive

1487
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 15: on the prospects of it. Let me take a step

1488
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 15: back and just talk about the challenges that we have

1489
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 15: in Africa. If I managed an Africa fund, if I'm

1490
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:53,640
Speaker 15: selling a share or debt ust in Morocco and I'm

1491
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 15: trying to buy a similar share or even a different

1492
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 15: share in Egypt, I have to go through the the dollar.

1493
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 15: Why can't Moroccan Durham cross the Egyptian pump. That's just

1494
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 15: the first an issue with the African trade right there.

1495
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 15: You know, I mean, if I'm selling to I'm selling

1496
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 15: products to Namibia, what do the Namibia require a dollar

1497
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 15: or why do they require dollar visa visa? You know,

1498
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 15: why does it require me to go to Europe to

1499
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 15: get to Morocco. Those are the simplest things or the

1500
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 15: blockages or the stumbling blocks to Africa Free Trade. We

1501
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:41,360
Speaker 15: solve those issues. Visa requirements to go to Nigeria. You

1502
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 15: can never get a visa more than six months. The

1503
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:46,799
Speaker 15: longest you're gonna get as a South African as six months.

1504
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:48,640
Speaker 15: Why can't I get a ten year visa to go

1505
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 15: to Nigeria because I go to Nigeria every year? You know,

1506
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 15: those are the kind of and these are the simple

1507
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 15: wins that are gonna unlock the Africa Free Trade. Then

1508
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 15: there comes the infrastrut the roads, the railway lines, you

1509
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 15: know that we've already talked about.

1510
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:06,639
Speaker 10: That's the news we build. You look at.

1511
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 15: Southern Africa now, it's very easy to will power across.

1512
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 15: You can will power from South Africa all the way

1513
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 15: to a DRC visa visa. We need more of that,

1514
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 15: more integration on the continent for this Africa Free Trade

1515
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 15: to work, and that will increase the pace of execution.

1516
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 3: Yah, we've got literally thirty seconds left. But the demography

1517
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 3: matters and Africa's Africa's population is growing, its working population

1518
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:40,639
Speaker 3: will be huge by twenty fifty. Sometimes as the demographic dividend,

1519
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 3: we have to make decisions right now to make sure

1520
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 3: we get the best use of that.

1521
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 16: And for me, it's a political question more than it

1522
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 16: is an economic one. You have just opposed. You have

1523
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 16: politicians in office who are not good probably going to

1524
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 16: be there for that economic dividend, trying to make decision

1525
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 16: on that. And for me, it's going to come back

1526
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 16: down to the youth. I'm still part of the youth,

1527
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 16: but I do believe that it's going to be How

1528
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 16: then do we solve the solvables, as Quo said, stuff

1529
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 16: like three currency crosses in order just to get to

1530
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:22,759
Speaker 16: local currency. Looking at travel, you're looking at you're looking

1531
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 16: at just political will to to to deregulate, to go

1532
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 16: back to public private partnerships, seeing that being done well

1533
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,879
Speaker 16: in Egypt, which is really giving them quite a dividend.

1534
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:37,360
Speaker 16: And these are the sort of hard decisions which are

1535
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 16: going to be need to be made today by today's

1536
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 16: politicians in order for the youth to take ky of

1537
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,599
Speaker 16: that dividend in twenty two to thirty years time.

1538
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 3: Here Bill Wenon Janavip Clients manager at crime XPETI manager

1539
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 3: for Africa at Massiasset Management. Thank you.

1540
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 11: The Money Show Stephen Krutz is brought to you by

1541
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:03,520
Speaker 11: Absence Sponsorships, proud sponsor of the Absurd kape Epic, celebrating

1542
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,959
Speaker 11: twenty years of taking it to the trails.

1543
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 10: APPS is a registered fsp.

1544
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 3: US market's beginning to give basically pair their losses a

1545
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,719
Speaker 3: little bit, but everyone's still of course talking about Iran.

1546
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 3: That our Jones down point three one, the Nasdaq is

1547
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 3: down point one eight s and P five hundred is

1548
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,720
Speaker 3: down zero point one six. Will be back on Tuesday,

1549
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 3: good evening. It's a