1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,520
Speaker 1: The City of Cape Town has launched something that is

2
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: called Local Planning Support Service. Recently, the city amended its

3
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: municipal planning by law and now qualifying land owners in

4
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,440
Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety four areas around the city are

5
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 1: allowed to build multiple affordable rental units on their properties,

6
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: often without needing the special permissions that characterize other building desires.

7
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,159
Speaker 1: Alderman Eddie Andrews, the MAKO member the Deputy mayor of

8
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 1: Cape Town at least Eddie, Good afternoon, jos. Let me

9
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: start with a criticism that I have heard and read.

10
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how wide spread it is. But for

11
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 1: the people who don't like what you're doing with this

12
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,520
Speaker 1: permission for the qualifying landowners and one hundred and four

13
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 1: identified areas, are they saying you are further ghettoizing the

14
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: Cape Flats and the townships. That you don't allow middle

15
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: class areas where mostly white people live to do this,

16
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 1: and that's because you want them to continue to have space,

17
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,520
Speaker 1: and you don't care about the poor people. You want

18
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: to take their space away from this. I don't know

19
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,280
Speaker 1: how widespread that belief is, but I read it and

20
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: see it.

21
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 2: John. Yeah, and I also get those sort of responses

22
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 2: on social media or whenever I have public communities with

23
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 2: regards to the footable inalfrest program, and essentially it's a

24
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,520
Speaker 2: more dignified human sentiment. If you look at currently what's happening.

25
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,680
Speaker 2: You have individuals living in a backyard structure, a rocky

26
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,640
Speaker 2: or rendias as it's known innus communities, and the services

27
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 2: are external to the building, so you have a sort

28
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 2: of a tap outside and an unlawfully connected to the infrastructure,

29
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 2: and sooe is disposed of in the stormwater system. And

30
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 2: so there's area that we've identified John. Those are areas

31
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 2: where we've seen these sort of developments happening currently, albeit

32
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,480
Speaker 2: unlawfy And what you were trying to understand is a

33
00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,240
Speaker 2: sort of kept on why is that? And for these reasons?

34
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 2: I think because it's close to a public transfer interchange

35
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 2: or to an industrial node of some sort, and it

36
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 2: is very much desirable to build. I mean the Moon

37
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 2: also another recent example that I can flag just because

38
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 2: we were last week there and what's happening close to

39
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 2: Kilan and the industrial Nesay. So it's not slum, it's

40
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 2: a more dignified housing opportunity, and they be in the

41
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 2: private sector and the financial institutions and the private property

42
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,320
Speaker 2: owner are now able to assist us supplementing the the

43
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 2: cities housing need.

44
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So then to the practicalities, just remind us when

45
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 1: you can't give us all one hundred and ninety four

46
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,920
Speaker 1: identified areas, but give us a broad sense of where

47
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 1: the areas are and who would qualify as a land

48
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,520
Speaker 1: owner with permission to build these affordable rental units on

49
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,320
Speaker 1: their properties?

50
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 2: Okay. So there there's a list on the city's website

51
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 2: that you can also download. But I'll go through a

52
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,680
Speaker 2: couple of areas. So, yeah, we're looking at Mitchell's Plain,

53
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 2: We're looking at the Noon, We're looking at delf Crossloads.

54
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 2: They are parts of Philippi Padrow, Ocean View, Peligan Park, Westlake,

55
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,400
Speaker 2: parts of Muzemberg Seawings, Suns and Turn and the like.

56
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 2: So there's a list on the city's website that can

57
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 2: be down there that confirming the one hundred and ninety

58
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,920
Speaker 2: pox ninetdred ninety four areas are as part of the

59
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 2: map approved by council. And so John who qualified, I

60
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 2: think the private property and qualifies if you're kind of

61
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 2: desiding on your property. The amendment in the by law

62
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 2: would now allow you to build a maximum of eight

63
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 2: units in these units ranging signs from approximately eighteen squares

64
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 2: to about twenty eight squares, such a singular sort of

65
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 2: a single bachelor flat fuel and if you are not

66
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 2: desiding on the property then you're allowed to build approximately

67
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 2: twelve units on that stat And while this is important

68
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 2: because from the city side, it's happened, as I mentioned, unlawfully,

69
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 2: and part of their amendments approved by council would be

70
00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 2: to waiver all these admin penalties. We've established a fund

71
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 2: that would offset the development charges applications because these all

72
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 2: barriers to compliance that the sector faces, and we've also

73
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,240
Speaker 2: wailed the application costs in those areas, whether of course

74
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,320
Speaker 2: these sort of developments are desirable and what I've also

75
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,920
Speaker 2: seen having spoken to quite a few of the tenants,

76
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 2: and not just because it's close to a public trans

77
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 2: with interchange or industrial mode, but the sector is understanding

78
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 2: even though you are blacklisted, you would still qualify from

79
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 2: an affordable enter, you know, because the months in Tartif

80
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 2: is similar to what you're paying to live in a

81
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,840
Speaker 2: shack or wend house. They're that much different to that.

82
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 2: But of course, as I mentioned early on, is a

83
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 2: lot more dignified. So that's what excites us about is

84
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 2: it really is something able for the Propertonia additional revenue

85
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 2: could and it helps us now sort of incentivizing law

86
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 2: for developments in those areas.

87
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 1: Then tell us about the Local Planning Support Service which

88
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 1: was launched in Longer on Saturday.

89
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, John, So one of the barriers that we've also

90
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 2: seen was there was insufficient budgets or resources to pay

91
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 2: for professional persons, architects, planners and the like. And what

92
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 2: we've done a couple of years ago we started the

93
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 2: onboarding of individuals within the Local Planning Support Department, approximately

94
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,960
Speaker 2: twenty of them. We placed them across all of our

95
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 2: eight planning districts, every single stirsay in the district, and

96
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 2: so propertners can meet to them to understand what they

97
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,279
Speaker 2: can actually develop on their property, how the affordable rental

98
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 2: flat program works, and how the financial parts of it

99
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 2: in terms of what you can afford in terms of

100
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,480
Speaker 2: the income that you've now generated on your property that

101
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,200
Speaker 2: will guide the potential loan that you will get from

102
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,919
Speaker 2: those organizations that are funding it. And so the Local

103
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 2: Planning Support Office is that technical planning support to the

104
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,679
Speaker 2: property owner and also to the developers as well, because

105
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 2: often we've seen if you're not familiar with the legislation,

106
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,479
Speaker 2: what can and can't be done, you going this downward

107
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 2: spiral and if you don't know which path to take,

108
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:28,840
Speaker 2: you'll be there forever. And so that's what we're trying

109
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 2: to do to remove one more barrier from those individuals,

110
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 2: the property owners who want to develop their property now

111
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 2: and everything is that they act sort of one of

112
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 2: every single of our of Oliver eight districts Eddie.

113
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 1: What level of interest so far, it's relatively early days

114
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 1: since the by law was changed.

115
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,200
Speaker 2: John, so definitely we've got information from those two financial

116
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 2: institutions I've mentioned early on and it seems to be

117
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,159
Speaker 2: a couple of one hundred applications with in their domain

118
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 2: that they have not received an interest. Previously, as I mentioned,

119
00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 2: was unlaw for we can only track what's currently on

120
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,119
Speaker 2: our portal, and so since the amendment to the bile

121
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,200
Speaker 2: or end of last year, we've now seen it's being

122
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,360
Speaker 2: slowly but surely tickling and there's on TV stages. So

123
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 2: approximately we have about twenty applications that we have in

124
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,320
Speaker 2: the system, and that would be across all of our areas,

125
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 2: mostly on the cape flats and the characture planning districts

126
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 2: that we have currently in the system as well.

127
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 1: And the supporting infrastructure for this, because it's something which

128
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: applies equally to more upmarket developments, perhaps less so because

129
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 1: these are not greenfield sites. These are sites where people

130
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 1: already live. So there is already road infrastructure, although that

131
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 1: road infrastructure might be seen by some residences below par

132
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 1: But there are sewage pipes, but you're connecting more people,

133
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 1: more water is being used, et cetera. So is there

134
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 1: an increase in the supply of bulk infrastructure, water and sewage,

135
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 1: particularly to areas where this opportunity looks like being taken

136
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 1: up on a reasonably significant basis.

137
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think today was just Also the Council Media

138
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 2: will be approved with draft budget again approximately thirty and

139
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 2: a half billion around in the capital project to respond

140
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 2: to that very question. But I think John it's important

141
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,360
Speaker 2: to note that these structures already in the communities. The

142
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 2: only issue now is that they're connecting unlawfully. So our

143
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,839
Speaker 2: planning departmenter sort of services departments don't know what capacity

144
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,080
Speaker 2: would need because there's no plan in the system. And

145
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 2: so now the fact that they're now submitted application incentivized

146
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,080
Speaker 2: to change their behavior. We can also plant eighty in

147
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 2: the areas that we've also mentioned early on, but we

148
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 2: will continue with the assessments once it's the building plan application.

149
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 2: Of course, those assessments would also be considered by the

150
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 2: engineering departments and the planning office.

151
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 1: Eddie Listener wants me to put this to you, how

152
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: can you further densify Elsie's River, Mitchell's Plane and Athlone.

153
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 2: So, John, as I've mentioned, these structures already there and

154
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 2: there's definitely capacity in those areas. Wef look at the

155
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 2: property size. Some of those areas have generous property sizes.

156
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,240
Speaker 2: We have a single unit, the biler now permits up

157
00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,959
Speaker 2: to eight or maximum of twelve units, and that's in

158
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,320
Speaker 2: addition to the provisions currenty we a second and a

159
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,200
Speaker 2: third dwelling can also be considered. So yes, from a

160
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 2: spatial point of view, we definitely still have capacity as

161
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 2: areas mentioned, especially Elsizevera and in Mitchell's Plan.

162
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,719
Speaker 1: And from another listener, we have an empty piece of

163
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: land to build on in Atlantis already been zoned, et cetera.

164
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 1: Can these living units be sold off to tenants in

165
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: due course or must they always stay rental stock?

166
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 2: Well, I did it to all always ben talk stock.

167
00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:59,680
Speaker 2: If you were to sell it, you would have to

168
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,040
Speaker 2: consider sectional title application. It's not something that the planning

169
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,199
Speaker 2: part will need to support, but for now it to

170
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 2: be be a rental stock.

171
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 1: And another question, it's nice that listeners asking these questions

172
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,640
Speaker 1: shows a good interest. If six units are built on

173
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 1: the property, how's the electricity going to be shared? Only

174
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 1: sixty amps are allowed per property, so each unit plus

175
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,440
Speaker 1: the main house will have only about nine amps, which

176
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 1: is what a standard cattle takes.

177
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when is a building planetflication, those system will

178
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 2: still have to be done. So you would be allowed

179
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,319
Speaker 2: to upgrade your grid to assist you with the power

180
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 2: requirements of the property. And also you are allowed one

181
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,680
Speaker 2: maximum of two to three units per per property. And

182
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,440
Speaker 2: you can also have is another meter project. You can

183
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 2: purchase the hardware where you know they can also be

184
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 2: considered to be purchasing people electricity from the main unit.

185
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,320
Speaker 1: And then I think we have time for this last

186
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 1: one again from another list, which sort of goes back

187
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 1: to the criticism that I've heard about this proposal, which

188
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 1: you acknowledge you'd also come across why not previously white

189
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 1: zoned areas also.

190
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 2: John, I think the map that council approved last year

191
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,720
Speaker 2: was the first stab at. If there's a future need

192
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 2: to consider other areas, most certainly we can consider it.

193
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 2: Currently those properties are already benefiting from amendments to BILO

194
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 2: where second and a third unit can be considered. And

195
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 2: we've seen the uptaker has been extremely slow as well,

196
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,839
Speaker 2: so it's all spec capacity. But it depends entirely that

197
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,480
Speaker 2: it is a need to do it. We can assist

198
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 2: and including the map going forward.

199
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Indeed to Alderman Eddie Andrews, the

200
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,199
Speaker 1: Deputy mayor, Eddie, Sorry, I meant I meant to meant

201
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 1: to ask you the first port of call for somebody

202
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 1: interested in perhaps making contact with the local planning support servers.

203
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 2: So John, on the website we have you know, Cape

204
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 2: Doon dot gov dot jetto forward slash LPs. There's also

205
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,160
Speaker 2: an email address LPs at capetown dot guv dot zera,

206
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,839
Speaker 2: and of course there's a telephone numberer to one four

207
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 2: hundred double one zero three. And soon we'll be launching

208
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: a watchapp channel so people can actually whatchapp as because

209
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,440
Speaker 2: we see that's actually a more efficient way to communicate

210
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 2: with the sector. So all of those options.

211
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 1: Are available, thank you very much. Alderman Eddie Andrews, the

212
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: defty mayor of Cape Town,