1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,119 Speaker 1: What from seven o two weekend breakfast in the Profile. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 2: It's eleven minutes after eight o'clock. It's a Sunday morning, 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: which means it's time for us to hang out in 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: the Profile with a fascinating individual. We've had our next 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: guest on the show at numerous times, but it's usually 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: in the context of the Nature Diary. They've never been 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: a profile guest, and every time we have them on 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: the show, I think that's a really fascinating person and 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 2: the work they do is really really cool. I want 10 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: to know more so. Our guest this morning is Professor 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 2: ben Eric van wag. He's a plant taxonomist, his research 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: professor of Indigenous Plants use at the University of Johannesburg. 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: He's done really cool, fascinating work looking at our indigenous plants, 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: particularly medicinal indigenous plants, and so I'm thrilled to have 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: him join us this morning. If you'd like to be 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: part of the conversation, give us a call on oh 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: one one eight three or seven oh two, send us 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: your SMSs on three one seven oh two, or drop 19 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: us what's that message? See seven o two Professor van 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: Veg A very good morning to you. Welcome to weekend Breakfast. 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Good morning, good morning. 22 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for giving us part of your Sunday. 23 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: Sundays are so precious for people, so I appreciate you 24 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: giving us part of your Sunday. If you weren't on 25 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: air with us right now, what would you be doing? 26 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: What does a Sunday morning look like for you? 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: No, I normally in the morning make my round in 28 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: the garden, and so I look at what is flowering, 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: and what vigies I can harvest, and what birds are 30 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: singing and so on, and what to do in the garden. 31 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: So I've got this garden hour in the morning, right, 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 1: that's earlier. I've already done it by now, okay, And 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: so we believe would be getting ready for bowls. 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: Yes, so I believe you're playing balls this morning in 35 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: about an hour. 36 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 3: Actually you have balls? 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: Yes? 38 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: How long have you been playing balls? 39 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: Three years now? And I'm no longer a novice, so 40 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: you are a novice for three years. Enjoy it very much. 41 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: It's it's called formerly lawn bowls. You know. It's that game. 42 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: The It's an English game where you play on a 43 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: lawn with a large around balls that are biased and 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: they run it and then you aim for a little 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: white ball, and those closest to the little white ball 46 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: they get the points. So it's really a nice game 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: to play, and you can play it until you're very old. 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: Some people are playing boats. 49 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: And so you say it's been three years. Now you 50 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: are no longer a novice. Do you have a new 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: title now? Now that you're in you know, longer novius, 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: you get coming else as a title. 53 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: No, I'm just I'm just a normal bulls player. Now, 54 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: I'm not a good I'm not a good player. I mean, 55 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm relatively good, but I'm not like provincial or you know, 56 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: I'm not a champion. I'm a club I was a 57 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: novice champion for all three years in the club novice champion. 58 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: So I both seriously, but I'm not you know, of 59 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: a very high standard like provincial or national right enjoyment. 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that's really really cool. And so tell us, professor. 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: About what do you remember about growing up in Palville? 62 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: Because you grew up and well you were born in Palville. 63 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: What do you remember about your childhood? 64 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: Well, I remember my father sitting on my father's shoulders 65 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: walking around on Sundays towards Velhemut where Velhamut now is. 66 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: At that time, there was no no developments north of 67 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: the N one and I remember helping my father in 68 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: the garden. My father was a very keen gardener, and 69 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: I spent all my spare time with him in the garden. 70 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: He won the They had a very strong horticultural society 71 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: or the garden garden Society in Bealvelle at the time, 72 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: and he used to always win the prize for the 73 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: most beautiful small garden and so so I always visited 74 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: nurseries with him. So by the time I was let's 75 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: say ten or twelve, I knew all the garden plants, 76 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: the names of all the garden plants, and how they differ. 77 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: And that's probably how my interest in plants started through 78 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: my gardening activities. 79 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so when you were asked as a child, 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: if people were you know, people meet you and they say, 81 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: what do you want to be when you grow up? 82 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 2: Did you know at the time that there was this 83 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: thing you could do as a plant taxonomist or did 84 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: you want to be something else? Not? 85 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: Really, I actually thought I would. I enjoyed writing essays 86 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: at school, so I didn't have science at school. I 87 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: only had like history and even literature. They offered at 88 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: that time literature at school. So I thought I would 89 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: become an author, a writer. And so it's only then 90 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: we had to go to the army. You know, you 91 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: either go one year to the army or one year 92 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: to the jail. So I just chose to go to 93 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: army in those days. And then I decided, no, this 94 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: is nonsense, this author writing, you know, I'd rather do 95 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: something practical. So I wanted to then do botany. And 96 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: there was no botany bursaries at the time, but they 97 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: offered bursaries in forestry. So I did a four year 98 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: professional degree in forestry at Stellenbosh University. It's the only 99 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: university in Africa at the time that offered courses in 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: forestry professional forestry. So and then I and I saw 101 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: in the schedule that you can do Botany two, you 102 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: have to do botany too as part of the forestry course. 103 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: So that was my gap. So I did Botany three 104 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: as an extra subject while doing the forestry course. And 105 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: that's how I got into botany sideways sort of thing, right, And. 106 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: So you say, by the time you were sort of 107 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: ten fteen days of ten and telf You knew all 108 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: of the plants in your father's garden. You were spending 109 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: a lot of time and nurseries. What was it about plants, 110 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: even at that age that fascinated you? What made them 111 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: so interesting that you so much so committed their names 112 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 2: to memory. 113 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's a genetic thing because my 114 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: parents were both artists, and they used to discuss shapes 115 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: and colors all the time, and I think they, of 116 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: course have a very strong ability to observe things and 117 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: to describe things. And I think think that genetic ability 118 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: also was transferred to me. So I just enjoyed looking 119 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: at the beauty of nature, basically the beauty around us. 120 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: It's so every I told you about this morning's garden excursion, 121 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: and part of that is to is to simply enjoy 122 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: the beauty, the beauty of life, the beauty of diversity 123 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: that me that is is absolutely America. You don't need 124 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: any money for it. Wherever you are in the world, 125 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: you can observe the plants and the animals around you, 126 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: and it makes you feel part of a bigger, bigger entity, 127 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't. You don't feel alone because you 128 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: have this all around you. 129 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: For many people, Gardening or tending to plants can be 130 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: quite scary. 131 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: You hear people say things. 132 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: Like, oh, I don't I don't have green fingers, I'm 133 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: not good at you know, giving keeping plants alive, or 134 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: I could kill a succulent. And is there I guess 135 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: knowledge or like basic knowledge about plants that can even 136 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: help the. 137 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: Least green fund. 138 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: Of us, because I think we all are fascinated by plants, 139 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: all of us at some point of try to grow 140 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: something and it worked for some and it didn't for others. 141 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: And is there something that we just miss that we 142 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: just don't understand about plants, And sometimes that's what makes 143 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: it difficult. 144 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: No, I think people are too ambitious about their gardens, 145 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: so they want a perfect garden, a perfect manicure lawn 146 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: and so on. You should see my garden. It's all, 147 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, but mixed up. I don't you know, I 148 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: don't care about some weeds growing, or I don't care 149 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: if the birds eat the things. I don't care if 150 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: some people plants die, I just plant again, and so on. 151 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: Once you didn't take it too seriously, once you'd enjoy it. Nowadays, 152 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: with Google and with AI and all that, you can quickly, 153 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: quickly find out you know the requirements of each plant, 154 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: and so it's really not difficult. It's it's sort of 155 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: common sense. I'm not a particularly skillful gardener. I think 156 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: the basic principles give a lot of compost. And in 157 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: the thirty ideas that I've been in this garden of mine, 158 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: I've never ever thrown away any plant material. All the 159 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: plant material I get from the garden I have behind 160 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: the wall in the corner. I have a compost keep 161 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: and I make my own compost, so all of matter 162 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: goes into the compost, and that I think is part 163 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: of the secret of a good gardener is good gardeners 164 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: to have plenty of compost. 165 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: Right and how much of Sometimes I can be a 166 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: challenge with gardening is many of us aren't planting and 167 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: digit as plants because we don't know, right. 168 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: You kind of see, oh this is a beautiful plant. 169 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: I like it, and you kind of put it in 170 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: the ground, or it's not a plant that grows in 171 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 2: instance where many of us are in halting, where the 172 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: air is a little bit thinner, the winters are dry. 173 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: But then you plant something from case it in for instance, 174 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: that generally has a bit more moisture. How much of 175 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: kind of some of the struggle is not planting indigenously 176 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 2: or local plants, which generally fair a little bit better. 177 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I don't think one should worry about 178 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: whether it's indigenous or exotic if you're in a garden situation, right, 179 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: A garden is a human made thing, and you plant 180 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: what you like, you plant what is beautiful, you plant 181 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: what you can harvest to eat. And if you're in 182 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: a nature reserve, you live in a nature reserve, for example, 183 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: they need to would be advisable not to plant exotics 184 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: because they can spread into nature and they can contaminate nature. 185 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: But if you're in a place like Johannesburg, then you 186 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: focus on the plants you like, and the plants you 187 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: like to look at, and the plants you like to eat, 188 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: and just a matter of you know, the nice thing 189 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: about Johannesburg is that in summertime we have this wonderful rain. 190 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: Every now and then we have a nice rainstorm, and 191 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,479 Speaker 1: as a result, you hardly have to water your plants 192 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: in summertime. And summertime is when the plants typically grow 193 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: because it's warm and there's a lot of sun and 194 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: so I think it's relatively easy to be a gardener 195 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: in Johannesburg. You don't worry genus or exotic plant what 196 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: you like. 197 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you mentioned that you first you did this, 198 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: you did a qualification in forestry and nature conservation. Then 199 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: we're able to do botany or get how you get 200 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: into botany is through botany three. And what was the 201 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: I guess the difference or the shift between what you'd 202 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: already studied in forest and nature conservation and then. 203 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: You're start doing botany. 204 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: So so you go ahead and get an MSc degree 205 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: in botany from Stellenbosh. What what happened when you started 206 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: doing botany three? You know? 207 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: The background is that the forestry course at that time 208 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: it's probably still similar to what it was. And we 209 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: had really excellent, excellent professors, and we had a wide 210 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: range of subjects. So we did, for example, entomology insects 211 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: to know the pests that grow on forest trees. We 212 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: did land surveying. We had to be able to make 213 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: roads in a forest. We need to we needed to measure, 214 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, trees, and you need In other words, it 215 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: was basically a course in applied ecology. All the aspects 216 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: of nature. We studied in the forestry course, and of 217 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: course we studied the botany of the trees, so I 218 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: knew at the time I was in the forestry faculty. 219 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: So I gave a course in what we called forest botany, 220 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: so that all the different trees I showed the students. 221 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: I collected plant samples and showed them, so that gave 222 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: a very good background to understanding plants. And then I 223 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: did an honors in botany and then a master's in 224 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: botany classifying a tree the cure boom. It's a beautiful 225 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: tree that people grow in gardens, indigenous tree. And then 226 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: I went on and did a PhD in taxonomy at 227 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: the U City University of Cape Town. At the time, 228 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: while I started at VITZ, and then the professor moved 229 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: to Singapore, and then I started at UCITY with Professor Skelpi, 230 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: and then he died. I had nothing to do with it. 231 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: He just decided to know. And so it was the 232 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: time lucky when I was enrolled with a very bright, 233 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: brilliant young academic at UCITY called Peter Linder. Peter Linder 234 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: is currently in Switzerland, but he was really a very 235 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: strong academic leader at the time, and I was honored 236 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: to be his very first PhD student. So it did 237 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: a very basic classification a genus large genus of one 238 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty species of plants. I had to sort 239 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: them out and describe them. So that is pure taxonomy, 240 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: pure botany. It's meaning you study the plants and you 241 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: classify them, and you revise the classification. So in the 242 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: I discovered something like I think it could have been 243 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: about forty new species of that genus that's never been 244 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: named before. So that's part of the process of taxonomy 245 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: is to discover and describe new species. And for that, 246 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: of course, you need to know all the others to 247 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: know that this one is new. 248 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: Right, And so how many plant species do you think 249 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: you know? As in, if you had to, for instance, 250 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: just for this you needed you named one hundred and 251 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: fifty species of plant, you would have known all the 252 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: other ones to know that these one hundred and fifty 253 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 2: aren't like the other ones. Do you have a roundabout 254 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: figure of how many plant species you might know? 255 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: That's a very interesting question. I never thought of that. 256 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: Probably I don't know, five thousand or ten thousand or 257 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: something like that. I don't know. 258 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: And how do you, I guess, because you speak about 259 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: identifying and naming a specie, what is that process? 260 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: How does that work? 261 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: How do you identify a name a specie? 262 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 4: Ye? 263 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: See? 264 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: So the first thing is if you study a genus 265 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: like I did the one I studied the legume genus 266 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: with one hundred and fifty species. So it means you 267 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: have to get to know all the species. And that 268 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: usually happens in an irbarium. So the ibarium is a 269 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: place where they kept right and pressed specimens of all 270 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: the plants. So there's a bigger barium at Pretoria, the 271 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: National Ibarium, and then there's also at Kirstenbosch there's the 272 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: Compton Iberium, and there they have thousands of actually millions 273 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: of ibarium specimens of all the So they have people 274 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: collecting the plants and pressing them in a press, drawing 275 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: them nicely, and then mounting them on cardboard and give 276 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: a label where they were found and so on, and 277 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: then then these are put in cupboards. And then when 278 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: you want to study a particular group of plants, you 279 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: go to the ibarium and you see what other people 280 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: have already collected. And then as you study the group 281 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: of plants, you remember what they look like. See that's 282 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: where the artists pattern recognition, genetic advantage each I think 283 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: came in because I never struggled to see the differences. 284 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: So you need to know what the leaves look like, 285 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: what all the different plant parts of every species look like. 286 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: So you can visualize it as a matrix of one 287 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty species on the one side, and let's 288 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: say two hundred different characteristics of the plant on the 289 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: other side, and you can see them how large it becomes. 290 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: You need to know what the fruit looks like, what 291 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: the seeds look like. And in my case also I 292 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: studied the chemistry, so I need to know what chemical 293 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: compounds are going each species in order to compare them. 294 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes they look similar, but the chemistry is different, and 295 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: then it gives you a clue. So that is the 296 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: process of recognition. And then once you for example, sometimes 297 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: you walk in the felt and then you say, wait 298 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: a minute, this plant is new. No one has ever 299 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: collected this before. It's not in any of the area. 300 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: And I used to visit all the world's a barrier 301 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,719 Speaker 1: where South African plants have been historically sent to. And 302 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: then then you're excited and then you take you collect 303 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: some specimens and and you deposit those specimens in the ibarium. 304 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: We call them type specimens. And then I write a 305 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: paper for a scientific journal, and I say I've discovered 306 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: this new species. I call it this, and that the 307 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: type specimen is in let's say the Pretoria iberium. And 308 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: that means that if someone wants to know what the 309 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: plant looks like, they can go to the iberium and 310 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: look at that specimen. So it gives a fixed point 311 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: of what is meant by that particular species. And that's that. 312 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: So there's a formal process of you have to describe 313 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: the species. The name has to be correct because it's 314 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: a Latin name, so the let's say, the grammar of 315 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: the name should be correct. And then and then you 316 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: give a description, and then you also give a diagnosis. 317 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: The diagnosis is a short statement where you motivate why 318 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: it's a new species. In other words, you typically it 319 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: would it used to be in Latin, but nowadays people 320 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: also use English. So you typically would say this species 321 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: differs from all other species in that the leaves are 322 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: soil very gray with hairs on the upper side, and 323 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: it's as thorns and so and so and so you 324 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: give a motivation, why what on what basis do you 325 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: describe it as new? Yeah, that is the process. 326 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 3: That's such a fascinating thing. 327 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: So I've described probably more than a hundred species throughout 328 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: my career so far. 329 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 2: Are you still I guess, naming species or discovering and 330 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: naming species in addition to the hundred or the yeah, 331 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: the hundred that you've already discovered and named. 332 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 3: Are you still finding new species of plant? 333 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: Yes, but not so much. My career has moved from 334 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: pure taxonomy, where the focus was purely on taxonomy, to 335 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: medicinal plants. And this happened when I started using chemical 336 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: characters to distinguish between plants. You know, if you look 337 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: at just the leaves and the flowers and this and that, 338 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: then you sometimes have plants that look very similar. But 339 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: if you study the chemistry, then you see no, no, no, 340 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: they are quite different. And then when you know they different, 341 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: then you discover other characters that's also different. And so 342 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: this helped us a lot. We did a lot of 343 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: work on the legumes, on the p flowers of the cape. 344 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: There's lots of p flowers in the cape, and many 345 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: of them look look very similar, but with students and 346 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: so on, we classified many of those groups. And this 347 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: was before the days of DNA. Nowadays people use a 348 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: lot of DNA to determine the relationships. In those days, 349 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: DNA was not available yet, and as a result, we 350 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: our classification systems basically withstood the test of time because 351 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: we didn't only use the appearance of the plants, but 352 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: we also use the chemistry. And the chemistry led to 353 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: an invitation by South African Druggists. At the time, they 354 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: were the biggest pharmaceutical company in the Southern hemisphere and 355 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: they produced that Dutch lenin medicines. You know, there's a 356 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: traditional medicine that people in rural areas still know and use, 357 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: things like Levan's essence and with dolces and jurnamar and 358 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: those things, and so South African Druggers asked me to 359 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: because I had the equipment to do chemistry, they asked me, 360 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: and I knew the plants, they asked me to do 361 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: quality control procedures for them. So that is how I 362 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: got into medicinal plants. And then my early ambitions as 363 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: an author came to the four and the first book 364 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: I did was on aloes, because at the time we 365 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: were studying the chemistry of aloes, and so we wrote 366 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: the very first book was maybe I can't give you 367 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: the long story, the long version. The long version goes 368 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: like this. My friend ride On Smith is a second expert, 369 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: also a very prolific writer. At the time we were 370 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: studying aloes, and then people from overseas came and says, 371 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: we don't have where's your nice book on aloe? You 372 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: have such beautiful aloes, but there's no proper book, no 373 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: modern book on aloes. What's wrong with you? You know? 374 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: So I felt a little bit shame that we don't 375 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: have a good book on aloes. So I approached my 376 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: friend video On Smith and said, we must write a 377 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: book on Elvis. And then at that time there was 378 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: this murder in the USA about O. J. Simpson, O J. Simpson, 379 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: the trial of O J. Simpson, and it was big news. 380 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: And so I watched the television program where a publisher 381 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: approached an author and said, on the Monday, he said 382 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: to this author, I want a biography. I wanted a 383 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: book on the life of O. J. Simpson. He doesn't 384 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: have to be good, it must be finished on Friday 385 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: and so this guy drank coffee and worked through the 386 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: night and prepared the manuscript. And that manuscript was a 387 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: big commercial success in the USA because it was the 388 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: first book on the life of O. J. Simpson. So 389 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: I said to hideon's that's my friend video. Let's write 390 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: a book on aloes, the aloes of South Africa. It 391 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be good, it must be finished. And 392 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: so we worked out the schedule for one year. We 393 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: said we gave ourselves one year. We met every once 394 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: a month in a restaurant somewhere in Pretoria to discuss 395 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: the progress, and we ate chili, chicken levers and chocolate mousse, 396 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: and we gave scores for the quality of those. And 397 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: that's just by the way. And so I had to 398 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: go and it was my task to collect photographs. Now 399 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: you'll be surprised how few photographs were available at that time. 400 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: It's before digital photography. So it was all to do 401 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: with slides, you know, color slides. And so I used 402 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: to climb a mountain because there's this rare allow growing 403 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: early on top of this mountain. So I wait for 404 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: the flowering time and then I take umbrellas and then 405 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: it's pouring with rain, but I'm not on top of 406 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: the mountain. I need the photo and then I dry 407 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: the aloe. I take a photo under an umbrella in 408 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: order to get a photograph of each and every alo. 409 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: And so this Alo book is now I think in 410 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: his third edition. It's been translated into Korean, of all languages, 411 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: can you imagine Korean's interested in the aloes of South 412 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: Africa anyway, So that was the first book. 413 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 3: So the book was published within the year. 414 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: Yes, great. 415 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 3: So I just want to pause. 416 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 2: Here, Professor, because we do need to just check in 417 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 2: with our sports. If you've just joined us, we speaking 418 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: to plant saxonomists, research professor of Indigenous plunges at the 419 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: University of Johannesburg. 420 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 3: He is incredibly well published. 421 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 2: Professor ben Eric Vandwaik joins us as our profile guest 422 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: this morning. We take your calls on on one, one, eight, 423 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: three or seven oh two. Send us your WhatsApps sevent 424 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: seven two, one seven or two because we continue our 425 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: conversation with the prof in a short moment. But first 426 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: it's tenty three minutes before nine o'clock. It's tick in 427 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: too latest I witness New Sport with Anthony Tashada. 428 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: Seven Weekend Breakfast in the profile. 429 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 3: It's fifteen minutes before nine o'clock. 430 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 2: Welcome back to seven oh two Weekend Breakfast with Megg 431 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: Simshongo's still in the profile as always spending time with 432 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: a fascinating individual. And this morning we have the pleasure 433 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 2: of speaking to plant taxonomist research professor of Indigenous Plants 434 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 2: use at the University of Johannesburg, Professor ben Eric Fanveiki 435 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 2: joins us this morning, giving us some insight into his 436 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: incredible thirty year long career. And we take your calls 437 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: on O double one at three oh seven oh two. 438 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 2: We take you semss on three on seven oh two 439 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: and your WhatsApps on seven two seven oh two one 440 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: seven oh two. Professor, we have a number of messages 441 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: that have come in for you. Mohato in Randfontein, says Higogs. 442 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: The professor is well read. I use his book The 443 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: People Plants on my plot for reference as I'm building 444 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 2: a herb farm. Trudy also says here, how exciting to 445 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: hear my hero, Professor ben Eric Vanveig. 446 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 3: I have three of his books. 447 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 2: I would love to meet him and also introduce him 448 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: to doctor Sidney Malepalo, who's a cardiothoracic surgeon who's also 449 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 2: interested in indigenous healing plants. And then we have a 450 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: question professor from Tepo. He says, morning gogues, please ask 451 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 2: the professor. We grew up washing our hands mixed with 452 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 2: allo plant leaves. To this day, I don't really know 453 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: what the reason was. Do you perhaps have an answer 454 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: for Tepo professor? 455 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: Yes, well, it's the normally with plants soaps, it's the sepenins. 456 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 1: There's basically soapy substances in plants, in plant juices, and 457 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: that is you know, soap is just something that is 458 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: water soluble and fat soluble, so it can remove fatty 459 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: substances from your heads. So before the days of soap, 460 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: people used plants, typically fleshy plants where you can get 461 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: the juice out and then you wash your hands and 462 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: it works well, right, And. 463 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: You also use I think you do use a kind 464 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 2: of sub well, different cultures do different things. But after funerals, 465 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 2: the water at the gates often also has some type 466 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 2: of plant, and sometimes it is an aloe, because it's 467 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: believed that it has not only kind of these cleaning properties, 468 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: but it has properties of kind of removing you know, 469 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 2: it's kind of the shadow of death or death from 470 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: you because you would have just come from the grave side. 471 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: So even aloes are quite powerful medicinal plants, they're thought 472 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 2: to be really quite powerful spiritually as well. 473 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, there's lots of ritual uses of plants. That's 474 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: absolutely fascinating. And that's what I mostly do nowadays is 475 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: to record indigenous knowledge because it is very poorly recorded 476 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: in South Africa, and there's a you know, it is 477 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: a tragedy that things have not been recorded properly because 478 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: there's so much wisdom that runs the risk of going extinct. 479 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: It's not only plants that can go extinct. Also the 480 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: knowledge about plants can go extinct. And so we are 481 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: with my students, we are desperately trying to record as 482 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: much indigenous knowledge about the plants and their uses. 483 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: I wanted to go to Maria, who's on the line, 484 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: our professor with a question. 485 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: Some on the lines was from Ravonia. I mean Mariah, Mariah, 486 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 3: good morning. 487 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 5: Hello groups, enough to chat to you, thanks for taking 488 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 5: the call. I went belong. I've got a question about 489 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 5: adding plant material to or creating a compas step a 490 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 5: plant material, And I've been told that certain plants or 491 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 5: plant matter can't go into the compost deep something like citrus, 492 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,239 Speaker 5: so be it oranges or lemons and so forth. And 493 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 5: that's always puzzled me because surely if that fruit falls 494 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 5: from the tree, it falls on the ground, then like 495 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 5: what does it do? 496 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 4: Then? 497 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 5: I mean, why can't we add that? Is it true 498 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 5: that certain things shouldn't be added to a regular pomp 499 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 5: of teep? That's one question? Then can I just also 500 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 5: make a suggestion to the professor? I think, well, I 501 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 5: see sometimes when I go walking or running, especially after range, 502 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 5: there's so many weeds along the pavements and so forth. 503 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 5: And sometimes I've gathered them and I've put them in 504 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 5: salads and they're perfectly fine. Couldn't they be like a 505 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 5: book on edible weeds, things that we discard that we 506 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,959 Speaker 5: overlook that within out it's just a weed, but that 507 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 5: is edible and often I think, very nutritious. But sometimes 508 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 5: it's like touch and go, and people are afraid maybe 509 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 5: it'll be your harm. So if we could have a 510 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 5: book or a panthel or something just to the photographs 511 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 5: so that we know what's what and specifically in an 512 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 5: urban area like Joeburg. I think it could be very interesting. 513 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 4: Thank you. 514 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 5: That what I wanted to mention. 515 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 3: Thank you, Mariah Professor. 516 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, two interesting questions. The thing about the compost deep. 517 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: I think you can throw any healthy material into the compost, 518 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: But if you have a plant material that has rusts 519 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: and that have pests and diseases on it, then you 520 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: transfer those pests and diseases through the compostor into your garden. 521 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: So when, for example, if you have rust on leaves, 522 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: you throw those leaves away. I was wrong when I 523 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: said I didn't ever throw away things. I do throw 524 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: away diseased plant material. So citrus typically carries a lot 525 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: of pests, and if you if you now have diseased 526 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: citrus material in your compost, it could carry over to 527 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: the to the garden. About the weeds, you have to 528 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: be careful with roadside weeds because they often have real 529 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: high levels of lead from the petrol. So there's a 530 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: lot of contamination going on in the city, so one's 531 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: got to be a little bit careful. I share the 532 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: sentiment of a book on edible plants. I'm working on it, 533 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: so watch the space for it. The danger is, of course, 534 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: most of the fatal Many of the fatal plant poisonings 535 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: in South Africa are due to mass identification of plants. 536 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: So for example, there's this wild tobacco and the seedlings 537 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: of wild tobacco looks very similar to one of them 538 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: moroch gener podiums. That's very popular, and there's been cases 539 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: on record of whole families tragically dying as a result 540 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: of eating a meal of of cenopodium contaminated with deadly 541 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: poisonous all tobacco leaves. So if you nubble on a 542 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: leaf poisonous leaf, it's not really dangerous. But if you 543 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: have a meal of let's say hundred crams or something 544 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: of a poisonous plant, then you in fatality territory. So 545 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: that's something that's one one's got to consider to make 546 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: sure that you know what you're eating. 547 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 3: Let's go to Pretoria, professor. 548 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 2: We're lucky, is on the line, Lucky, thank you for 549 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 2: holding good morning. 550 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 4: Yes, good morning, cook cooks and the professor, Professor, our 551 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 4: forefathers used to have used to use this all the 552 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 4: species of plants to cure certain diseases. But specifically I 553 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 4: want to ask about allah allah. I understand you can 554 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 4: use it to cure maybe these two cheekens. You can. 555 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 4: Alo is good in to make your immune strong when 556 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 4: you drink alo. And maybe you can go to an 557 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 4: extent of ex mentioning the function of the alo. What 558 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 4: does it do because we now we rely on this 559 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 4: modern medication, you see, whereas it's originating from those species 560 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 4: that actually have been talking about. 561 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 3: Okay, right, Lucky, thank you for that question, Professor. 562 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: Alo is a very fascinating plant because it's one of 563 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: the ancient medicines worldwide. The aluvera, for example, was Arabian origin, 564 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: and that was the first one that we used in 565 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: military campaigns. It was a military strategic material at the 566 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: time because you can heal wounds with it if you 567 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: apply the gell on the on the wound, and you 568 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: can treat the constipation and the bad stomachs of the 569 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: soldiers because their food wasn't very good. And so ylo 570 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: is a purgative. It may it's a laxative, and so 571 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: you can clean yourself with the aloe, and that is 572 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: the main use historically of alolo. The yellow juice of alo, 573 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: is to clean your system, your digestive system. But what 574 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: is also fascinating is the butter taste of alo in 575 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: the mouth. This is the so called Amara effect, so 576 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: that the butter taste in the mouth stimulates the flow 577 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: of gastric juices it so you have better digestion if 578 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: you have this butter taste in the mouth, and so 579 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: and that better taste. Sometimes there's also studies showing that 580 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: the better taste can regulate the heart beat. It can 581 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: make the heart beat more intense and more regular. So 582 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: with many medicinal plants, you have different chemical compounds that 583 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: have different effects on the body. And so the main 584 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: effects is this wound healing and the gel if you 585 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: eat it, it can let's say internal healing because interestins 586 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: also have a top layer like skin, and the allow 587 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: gell works on that like the let's say the inside 588 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: skin of our bodies, if you understand what I'm mean. So, yeah, 589 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: aloes are fascinating. There's some indications that too much of 590 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: aloe is not good, So I would not recommend using 591 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: allow for very long periods every day. It can be harmful. 592 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: There's potential for and this is for all medicinal plants. 593 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: If we get sick and we don't feel well, we 594 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: should use the medicine for a few days only and 595 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: then stop and then maybe after a week or two 596 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: you can start again. But you know, chronique use is 597 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: potentially not good for you. 598 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: Yes, one of my ministries as a traditional healer is 599 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 2: about which is incredible as a plant, but if you 600 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 2: use too much of it, it can be very detrimental 601 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 2: to your kidneys. And so every year as it starts 602 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 2: getting colder and people have sniffles or whatever, it's like 603 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 2: my big ministry not to use it as a kind 604 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 2: of a multi vitamin or chronically because it won't be 605 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 2: nice for your kidneys. 606 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 3: So, yes, the. 607 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 2: Point of kind of using traditional medicine or medicinal plants 608 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: very carefully because they're really powerful, but too much of 609 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,720 Speaker 2: it is not so great. So, professor you was saying 610 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 2: that your career has now shifted from protects on pure 611 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: excuse me, takes tunneling to meddictional plants, and you were 612 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 2: saying that, you know, want the work that you're doing 613 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 2: is kind of trying to catalog this indigenous knowledge and 614 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 2: so much of it as aural. What else are you 615 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 2: doing in the space of medicinal plants in this new phase. 616 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: Yes, well, actually the punchline of that Allow Book was 617 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: that through the Allow Book, I came to realize that 618 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: when you tackle something and you just get it finished, 619 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: then the relief of finishing your job is so good 620 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: that you have time left to actually make it excellent, 621 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: so that in the end it I said, it mustn't 622 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: be good, it must be finished, but eventually it turns 623 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: out to be quite good. And so this resulted in 624 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: me writing a very large number of books on all 625 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: aspects of socially relevant plants. So it was medicinal plants. 626 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: The People's Plants is all about the useful plants of 627 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: Southern Africa, all the different uses firewood, dies and tans, 628 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: and you know, construction and timbers and all the different 629 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: uses food and so on. And I did one on 630 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: cut flowers and on succulents, and on herbs and spices. 631 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: So I have a national and an international series of books, 632 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: and I was quite successful in getting co production international 633 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: co productions, so there's German versions and there's American versions 634 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: of many of these books of mine, and then I 635 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: have the local series as well. But for the research, 636 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: I have quite a large number of students over the years. 637 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: And the wonderful thing cooks is that for the first 638 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: time we have indigenous people studying indigenous ethnobotany. We call 639 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 1: it ethnobotany's the use of plants. So you know, traditionally 640 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: it's clever white people going into Zulu valis and recording 641 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: the information. So a lot of that is not even 642 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: accurate because the people get fed up with these people 643 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: coming into religion. So now that is part of the 644 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: of the transformation of South Africa because the plant knowledge 645 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: is the intellectual property of these local people. It's the 646 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: underwritten wisdom of centuries that's captured in that. And we're 647 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: going to have to live with try my best Zulu 648 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: students doing zuluth no botany, vendor students doing vendor snub. 649 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to create a series of intellectual leaders 650 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: for the future. 651 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 2: Thank you, and unfortunately, Professor, we need to leave it 652 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 2: at that, we are out of time. What an immense 653 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 2: pleasure having you on the show. Professor ben Eric Vanveig, 654 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 2: plant taxonomist and research professor at the University of j 655 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,240 Speaker 2: joining us this morning