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Speaker 1: Away with today seven correct.

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Speaker 2: Answers seven two the political.

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Speaker 1: The political desk of course, looking back on the week

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Speaker 1: that was, we got confirmation yesterday from the Police Minister

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Speaker 1: or acting Police Minister, I should rather say for roz

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Speaker 1: Kasharali are confirming that General Fani Massimola, this is the

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Speaker 1: National Police Commissioner of South Africa, our top cop has

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Speaker 1: indeed or will be charged with trans transgressing the Public

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Speaker 1: Finance Management Act when he appears in court in April.

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Speaker 1: The minister is saying he has been in charge and

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Speaker 1: he has been charged. Rather and those charges relate to

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Speaker 1: the or is mark it up p FMA right, the

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Speaker 1: Public Finance Management Act?

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Speaker 2: And so what does this all mean?

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Speaker 1: And why does the President then, as he has said,

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Speaker 1: he will act on this soon. Why the way how

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Speaker 1: do we wait through all of this? Professor Mazuo Machiola

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Speaker 1: is a leadership and governance expert and joins us now.

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Speaker 1: Profit Very good Monegy and welcome to seven eighty Breakfast, and.

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Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Behney and good one into older listeners.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, let's start with the basics, I mean

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Speaker 1: the legal status of the Police Commissioner, of course, like

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Speaker 1: any individual, he must be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

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Speaker 1: But in a sense he has a unique job in

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Speaker 1: South Africa as our top cop. What process should be

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Speaker 1: followed to deal with this now? Yes, so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so correct it. It's a very important leader leading

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Speaker 3: a very important department in our in our country, a

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Speaker 3: department that cannot be that cannot continue with someone who's

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Speaker 3: going through the charges and courts. So it's important that

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Speaker 3: That's why the President is saying he will move with speed,

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Speaker 3: and indeed the whole country is waiting with bated breath

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Speaker 3: for the President to do that, because now the President

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Speaker 3: must announce in terms of what is going to happen,

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Speaker 3: and that the National Commissioner discharged, he will be going

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Speaker 3: through the court processes. You will need someone who will

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Speaker 3: act there so that you relieve the National Commissioner to

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Speaker 3: focus solely on his court proceedings while the country is

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Speaker 3: not affected or the in terms of the the subst

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Speaker 3: is not content, is not.

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Speaker 2: Affected in terms of the day to day processes.

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Speaker 1: Look, he's not a political appointee like for example, the Minister,

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Speaker 1: who of course also remains suspended. He's more formally an employee,

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Speaker 1: if you will, so I would imagine the labor practices

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Speaker 1: need to take place, need to unfold in terms of

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Speaker 1: labor or whatever the President does decide to do. So,

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Speaker 1: from your perspective as a governance expert, what can the

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Speaker 1: president do and how soon can he do it?

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Speaker 2: So indeed, it is not a political.

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Speaker 3: Appointee, but he's an accounting officer, which means that he's

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Speaker 3: the one responsible for the whole organization. And there's an

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Speaker 3: accounting officer he is, uh, it's got a personal responsibility

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Speaker 3: to make sure that he runs that department correctly. And

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Speaker 3: then you and you spoke about the p f n

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Speaker 3: A violation that you must make sure that he prevents

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Speaker 3: any any irregular and fruitless and wasteful expects.

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Speaker 2: And Shah must maintain sound financial controls.

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Speaker 1: So hold on, hold on, Yeah, let's assay we know

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Speaker 1: all of that. I just want to know what steps

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Speaker 1: can the president take now?

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Speaker 3: So the president is as I'm saying that the president,

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Speaker 3: he's got he has to according to the process in

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Speaker 3: terms of the South African polic Service Act together with

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Speaker 3: the p f A and the Constitution. The President cannot

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Speaker 3: just dismiss him merely because of the allegations of the

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Speaker 3: charges because you know that it's not it's not guilty yet.

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Speaker 2: So during that.

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Speaker 4: Process, when when he is trying to prove himself that

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Speaker 4: he's not guilty for whatever allucations against him, so he

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Speaker 4: must at least give him some time to deal with

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Speaker 4: that while he's doing with that, but the country must

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Speaker 4: not be affected or that office must continue.

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Speaker 2: Without any any interruptions.

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Speaker 3: That is why it's important that you must find someone

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Speaker 3: who can act meantime while he is proving himself.

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Speaker 2: When obviously, when if it.

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Speaker 3: Comes a time when the president is satisfied that whatever

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Speaker 3: allegations were put against him were not sound or I

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Speaker 3: mean he he was not found guilty, then the president

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Speaker 3: can reinstate him ify one if you want to do

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Speaker 3: that all

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Speaker 1: Right, Professor Masata leadership and governance expert there