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Speaker 1: It was a week or two ago we were speaking

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Speaker 1: to an organization about helping young people who wanted to

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Speaker 1: be professional sports people but weren't actually going to make

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Speaker 1: it as professional athletes, and helping them look for other

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Speaker 1: possibilities to follow their dreams.

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Speaker 2: Today's the other kind of story.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be talking to somebody who was a

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Speaker 1: professional athlete who did make it to the high level

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Speaker 1: of his sport and then had to change his path

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Speaker 1: completely because injury took him off the path he was on.

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Speaker 1: That is exactly what happened to Burton Francis, the South

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Speaker 1: African rugby player who, amongst others, played for the Blue

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Speaker 1: Balls and the Stormers and then went on to move

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Speaker 1: to play internationally in France. And that pathway has led

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Speaker 1: him to a career as a wine maker.

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Speaker 2: Bet you didn't see that one coming. Not exactly a

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Speaker 2: direct path.

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Speaker 1: I'm intrigued to find out how it happened, and more

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Speaker 1: importantly to tell you how he is using this career

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Speaker 1: change for more than just making wine, but for doing

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Speaker 1: good as well. Burton is with us by a Zoom

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Speaker 1: this afternoon. It's great to Havevy on the show. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Cape Talk.

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Speaker 3: Hi Perpa lovely to talk again. Yeah, it's been three

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Speaker 3: years since I've been on the show, Lovely to share

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Speaker 3: my story.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Burton, I mean, very briefly, the

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Speaker 1: rugby story took you quite rapidly to playing at a

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Speaker 1: high level. Was that always the goal? Were you one

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Speaker 1: of those little boys who wanted to play rugby the

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Speaker 1: first time you picked up a ball and never dreamt

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Speaker 1: of doing anything else?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. Look it started since I was nine years

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Speaker 3: old playing on cobbled field and how it developed, determination

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Speaker 3: to come adversity coming from a disadvantage community and Paul

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Speaker 3: rugby career spanned it over thirteen years and unfortunately I

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Speaker 3: had to bow out you to a career in there.

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Speaker 3: But what a fantastic career I had.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so glad you got to pursue that

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Speaker 1: dream as far as you did, Burton. And the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to go and play overseas obviously something that many players

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Speaker 1: absolutely dream of doing, so fantastic from that respect. Remind

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Speaker 1: us what happened though to bring that part of the dream.

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Speaker 2: To an end?

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Speaker 3: Wow, Well it was a Monday, Papa. I don't want

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Speaker 3: to talk about it, but anyway, so we can share.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't During a match Monday top of the Monday morning,

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Speaker 3: we had a fantastic jumsis full body Jim season. I

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Speaker 3: was on top, you know. I was like ready for

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Speaker 3: this new week, really for this new match. And then

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Speaker 3: I was playing for Grenoble in the as in France.

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Speaker 3: So coming from forty degrees gent Paul to minus te

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Speaker 3: the Grenobyl wasn't ideal. And this was in December and

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Speaker 3: a strug of my life. We were treading inside. So

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Speaker 3: after a gum seasion, we had a collective and we

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Speaker 3: had to hom up. So I was split into a

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Speaker 3: group of five and we were rolling the rug, people

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Speaker 3: playing temper and bowling. You know. So I was rolling

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Speaker 3: that ball and I felt something in my back. I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh maybe it's stiffness. Just gonna walk it

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Speaker 3: out and get the ball, and then passed my follow colleague.

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Speaker 3: And when I passed that ball, well bending, I couldn't

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Speaker 3: stand up, you know. I was like straight to the bit.

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is not a spasm. What's going

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Speaker 3: on here? And like the friends, the old typical old school,

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Speaker 3: they put me on a bit laying upside down. That's

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Speaker 3: just going to loosen up now. I was like, guys, sorry,

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Speaker 3: we need to go for ima Eyescan and I had

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Speaker 3: to learn the hard way, you know. So it's way

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Speaker 3: I slipped the desk in my back and it took

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Speaker 3: me three months to realize it came over. I was

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Speaker 3: thirty one years old and I was like wow, and

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Speaker 3: like in France you can play like a fine wine

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Speaker 3: in the mental city life forty years old, h if

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Speaker 3: you look after you so, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Your career basically cut short, almost a decade earlier than

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Speaker 1: you had thought it would be. And Burton, obviously having

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Speaker 1: to make peace with that must have been incredibly difficult.

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Speaker 1: But ironically, where you were in the world might have

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Speaker 1: played a role in helping you find the new something

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Speaker 1: you had to pour your passion into. Was it your

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Speaker 1: experience of being in France, one of the wine making

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Speaker 1: capitals of the world, that that sparked the idea that hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe I could be a winemaker or was it something

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Speaker 1: else entirely.

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Speaker 3: Papa, when you move? So I relocated back to to

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Speaker 3: France in twenty thirteen and seeing new Vignett's new lifestyle,

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Speaker 3: new culture and most difficult the language, you know. So

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Speaker 3: it took me two years to understand and speak the lingo.

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Speaker 3: For me, I just don't remember my first match speaking

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Speaker 3: of Racanc to the for Insians and halftime there's like

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Speaker 3: Jena kom Humpa and then I knew our trouble. So for

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Speaker 3: me living in France and you know how rich the

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Speaker 3: culture is for food and wine, and you just have

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Speaker 3: to immerse yourself into the culture. Yes, I mess my chatty,

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Speaker 3: Yes I mess my bacon and aches of the Buddha Wars,

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Speaker 3: but I mean francis totally differently Chips six. But I

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Speaker 3: fully immersed myself with the culture. So playing Enagen one

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Speaker 3: hour away from Bordeaux, I could visit the chateaus and

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Speaker 3: then moving up north after my career, so I hang

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Speaker 3: up the boots and I took it to books. So

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Speaker 3: I enrolled into an MBA one in business degree and

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Speaker 3: that's in djh On, d honest, four hours away from

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Speaker 3: Paris and living in Dijon. Dijon is in is to

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Speaker 3: get the benchmark for Pinan Noir and Sharone there to

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Speaker 3: have fell in love with pin Noir and Charlay.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I mean you took advantage of where you were,

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Speaker 1: the culture that you had made a point of immersing

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Speaker 1: yourself in and the opportunity to study to acquire the knowledge.

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Speaker 2: And then Burton, you brought it back home to South Africa.

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Speaker 1: Now you are the founder of Francis Wines, which I'm

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Speaker 1: told there's a bartique label rooted in.

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Speaker 2: The himl and our Diridge.

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Speaker 1: What was it like coming home to South Africa having

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Speaker 1: left as a rugby player, coming back to say I'm

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Speaker 1: going to make wine here.

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Speaker 3: Well, I wanted to stay there in France, but you

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Speaker 3: took COVID. We were forced to come back. You know.

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Speaker 3: It's like I can't live this laid back life as

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Speaker 3: the Fringies. You know that South African culture wasn't me.

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Speaker 3: I need to work. I need to kill out of

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Speaker 3: my men and get outside, you know. And then with

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Speaker 3: one objective coming back to South Africa. So we relocated

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Speaker 3: back to South Africa twenty one with one mission is

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Speaker 3: to find a home for Francis Wines and yemel and

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Speaker 3: Ada has similarities as Burgundy and Francis Wines is about

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Speaker 3: tigue brend delegated to premium wines, you know, and fun

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Speaker 3: selected blocks according to my style and identity. So I

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Speaker 3: select those blocks for me and that was my passion.

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Speaker 3: You know it today we are three years in the

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Speaker 3: market now, and I mean there's a higher purpose for

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Speaker 3: Francis Wines as well, blowing back into the said vantist community.

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Speaker 1: For anybody coming in midway to this conversation, Burton Francis

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Speaker 1: is our guest, a former South African rugby player whose

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Speaker 1: career was cut short by injury and turned his focus

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Speaker 1: to making wine, which he now does under the label

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Speaker 1: of Francis Wines, a particular label from the Humal and

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Speaker 1: Ardor area. Now, the real reason I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to you is what you've just referenced, Burton. This is

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Speaker 1: not just about you finding a second career, finding a

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Speaker 1: way to find purpose again and make some lovely wine.

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Speaker 1: You've used the business to catapult the Francis Academy, which

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Speaker 1: is all about giving back to the community.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit more about how that works.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, Papa. For me, it should always be a higher

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Speaker 3: purpose for Francis Wines. And that's true. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: you can see in my back labels, there's one line

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Speaker 3: that says giving back to the disadvantaged community through education,

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Speaker 3: you know, in the wine industry. And it took me

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Speaker 3: two years to realize gees. I'm driving around and ustling

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Speaker 3: and busy getting the wines online and everything, but I'm

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Speaker 3: driving past my alma mater school that I've meticulated, and

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Speaker 3: it's been twenty years, twenty two years since I meticulated,

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Speaker 3: and things hasn't progress, you know. And I couldn't just

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Speaker 3: help myself driving there. So I went into the schools

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Speaker 3: like listen, I can consult, I can help, And I

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Speaker 3: mean being three years in the school helping the kids.

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Speaker 3: It's sewing and building trust with those students. And then

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Speaker 3: I mean for me the higher purpose obviously using Rugby

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Speaker 3: as a vehicle coaching them just to show that I

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Speaker 3: pitch up and a rock up because those kids want

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Speaker 3: to see you. That's the reality, you know. And then

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Speaker 3: after school is to help them into the wine industry.

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Speaker 3: So we have three students now that enrolled into Pintas

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Speaker 3: Youth Academy in Stellamas. That's a one year program, so

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Speaker 3: there's a tourism class and in a wine class, so

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Speaker 3: they are pretty excited. They started now in March, So

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Speaker 3: after your call, I'm going to phone them and having

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Speaker 3: a check in how the first month went, and they

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Speaker 3: pretty excited. For me, that is uplipment in the community.

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Speaker 2: That's an amazing story.

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Speaker 1: And you want an opportunity for young people not just

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Speaker 1: to have somebody like you available to mentor them and

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Speaker 1: offer coaching, but to be able to look to somebody

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Speaker 1: and say, here is a guy who grew up in

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Speaker 1: our community, who went to this very school, who has

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Speaker 1: made a success of his life and finds the time

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Speaker 1: to give back. Burton, I can't think of a better

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Speaker 1: role model to present to those young people. So I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, you want to grow the wine

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Speaker 1: business to be something that you can be proud of,

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Speaker 1: but you know, in doing so, you also simultaneously grow

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Speaker 1: the academy because it is linked to the profit from

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Speaker 1: the bottles of wine that are sold. What's your vision

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Speaker 1: If I was to say to you, we're going to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation five years from now, what do you

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Speaker 1: hope we'll be talking about that the academy will have achieved.

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Speaker 3: Look that five percent going into sales, the bottle goes

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Speaker 3: full the equipment for the kids at the school. So

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Speaker 3: I mean sorry, So I mean while I was coaching,

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Speaker 3: there was no tackling bags, no people, so I had

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Speaker 3: to buy my own balls and coats. So I told

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Speaker 3: her they're like this, listen, we're going to tackle each other.

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Speaker 3: That's the only way we're going to learn, you know.

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Speaker 3: So I saw there was a gap and a massive

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Speaker 3: need for them, and I mean in five years time,

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Speaker 3: we kind oft. I saw the academy is not enough,

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Speaker 3: you know. So now we have We currently busy with

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Speaker 3: our MPO and the name of MPO Slashania. It's it's

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Speaker 3: a French word that translates or means the link between

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Speaker 3: the number nine and the number ten. So I played

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Speaker 3: number ten, so that's the link and communication between number

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Speaker 3: nine and ten, and the nine communicates to the forwards

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Speaker 3: and the ten communicates to the whole team in the

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Speaker 3: back line, so that link is not the then the

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Speaker 3: company means nothing. So we currently busy registering for this company.

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Speaker 3: And I mean people can buy in this vision for

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Speaker 3: Franci's wines. I mean the kids are struggling from Paul

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Speaker 3: to get to sell and boss, so I need to

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Speaker 3: ask for people to go with their funders. They help

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Speaker 3: the petrol and how with prices going up, it's crazy,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I'm getting those kids there and motivate

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Speaker 3: them to be there at the Pinotage Youth Academy. It's

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Speaker 3: important for me and that's my job to get them

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Speaker 3: and mentor them through this whole year, just to educate

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Speaker 3: and go through the program. And next year, I mean,

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Speaker 3: we're in the Western Cape there, seven hundred plus. Why

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Speaker 3: is there that they can work for? And maybe tomorrow

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Speaker 3: they can work for Franceses. You know why we should

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Speaker 3: be the sello marketing sales or whatever, you know. And

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Speaker 3: that's my vision. If they have to come with me

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Speaker 3: to pro wine in Germany and the sort of they

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Speaker 3: would like to start. I would like to stay. I'd

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Speaker 3: like to stand next to me, I mean, and then

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Speaker 3: present the wines. And that's a story. I mean, who

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Speaker 3: doesn't want to buy into a story like that?

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Speaker 1: Who?

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Speaker 2: Indeed, it's a phenomenal story.

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Speaker 1: Burton, congratulations on everything you've achieved and how wonderful. I

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Speaker 1: love that analogy of the link between the numbers nine

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Speaker 1: and ten and what it enables on the rugby field

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Speaker 1: and behind the scenes of Francis Wines. For those who

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Speaker 1: are asking, you can find the label look at their

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Speaker 1: website Franciswines dot com and Burton Francis look forward to

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Speaker 1: that conversation in five years time, celebrating the lives that

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Speaker 1: you have changed in the process.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us today, Thank you Papa for having me.

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Speaker 2: All the best to you, Burton Francis, the founder of

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Speaker 2: Francis Wines,