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Speaker 1: The announcement from the presidency today, President Sara Ramapausa appointing

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Speaker 1: Deputy Saras Commissioner doctor and Gubani mccouble to take over

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Speaker 1: as the National Commissioner. He'll take over from Edward kiss

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Speaker 1: Veetter on the first of May. Rama Pausa saying that

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Speaker 1: that selection panel unanimously recommended mccoub. Charles de Vett's a

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Speaker 1: tax executive at inns Africa. Charles good Evening, So mccouble,

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Speaker 1: Deputy commissioner at SARAS for about three years, nominated unanimously

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Speaker 1: by this panel, a PhD in leadership. On paper, there

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Speaker 1: seems to be a perfect model of consistency. It's exactly

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Speaker 1: how a SARAS Commissioner should be appointed.

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Speaker 2: Good Evening steved and I think, I mean, I agree

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Speaker 2: with that completely. I mean, he originally had joined SARS

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Speaker 2: in the procurement space and then spent a while as

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Speaker 2: acting CFO and then CFO, so so he understands the

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Speaker 2: business and has been Deputy commissioners since twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, you know, he he's been in the

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Speaker 2: thick of it. He's been part of the of the planning.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, sort of the challenges of fixing

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Speaker 2: SAARs from the challenges that they were that they were facing.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's good news, you know that they've

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Speaker 2: taken somebody internally that that that understands it. But you know,

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Speaker 2: he's an independent thinker and uh, you know, will be

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Speaker 2: sort of continue to the traditional of building a great SARS.

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Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things you want to do

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Speaker 1: in an institution like SARS or the n p A

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Speaker 1: or the Orders to General or wherever is get things

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Speaker 1: going in a particular direction where everyone can see it

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Speaker 1: inside and outside, and then make sure the next leader

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Speaker 1: keeps that going. Is that your expectation for SARS with

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Speaker 1: a new leader in a month's time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think they. I mean they're on a good

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Speaker 2: track at at the moment. That doesn't mean that he

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Speaker 2: hasn't got big challenges that that you will will face,

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Speaker 2: but I think the fact that they won't be significant

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Speaker 2: upheaval is is positive in the in the circumstances, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, like we we had a good budget this year,

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Speaker 2: but you know, I think the timing of the budget

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Speaker 2: was was appropriate as well. If it had been a

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Speaker 2: week late, it make may have looked a little bit

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Speaker 2: a little bit different and the I mean they you

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Speaker 2: know there it's in tax collection and the enforcement of

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Speaker 2: of the tax laws. Is is uh important to maintain

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Speaker 2: the economy, and you know, so that we can't get

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Speaker 2: to that growth that we really so desperately need in

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Speaker 2: the in the circumstances of having somebody from from inside

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Speaker 2: that has been part of the senior leadership team that

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Speaker 2: can continue developing it in in the direction and you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of maybe tweak some things that have that have

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Speaker 2: gone wrong. I mean, they asked, as I said, there

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Speaker 2: are challenges there, but but you know, I think it

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Speaker 2: will be less disruptive than bringing somebody in from them

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Speaker 2: from the outside, because then we were we would have

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Speaker 2: seen a significant change. And I mean it's kind of

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Speaker 2: been tipped to take over the job for a while. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's not you know, entirely unin expected that Johnston

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Speaker 2: would would be the new commissioner.

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Speaker 1: What do you think are going to be the major

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Speaker 1: challenges of the new era at Saraz if I can

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Speaker 1: call it that. I mean obviously that tax trends are

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Speaker 1: changing around the world, the way people try and evade

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Speaker 1: and avoid taxes changing. What what do you think are

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Speaker 1: going to be the issues that ready to find the

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Speaker 1: next few years. And obviously just improving compliance is still

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Speaker 1: going to be a major thing.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, a climate compliance is always important, and

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Speaker 2: you know you need to keep on beating the drum

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Speaker 2: about that all the time. I mean, you know, so

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Speaker 2: as a year ago is you'll remember when the VAT

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Speaker 2: increase didn't happen, made significant problems. Is about collecting additional

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Speaker 2: additional revenues, so you know that that is still working,

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Speaker 2: work in progress. So you know that that's going to

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Speaker 2: be an important and important part of it in terms

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Speaker 2: of assessing the debt and you know what he's really

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Speaker 2: doing and payable and making sure that the money does

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Speaker 2: get into the into the bank. I mean. The second

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Speaker 2: aspect that I think that you know sort of has

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Speaker 2: potentially deteriorated over the last a little while is sort

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Speaker 2: of the level of training and knowledge at SARA. So

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Speaker 2: you know, there needs to be a little bit of

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Speaker 2: investment in in that space and to some extent sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, repairing the relationship with tax practitioners. That

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Speaker 2: is also you know there where there have been some

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Speaker 2: challenges over the last sort of year or two. And

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Speaker 2: then modernization is a significant part of that, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's the you know, probably the big item that

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Speaker 2: they're going to have to focus on. I mean, we've

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Speaker 2: already seen the blueprint on technology. You know, there's lots

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Speaker 2: of talk about about artificial intelligence and using that in

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Speaker 2: this space. But I mean the revenue, the successful revenue

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Speaker 2: authority of the future is going to have to look

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Speaker 2: at the new types of of revenue that they are,

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Speaker 2: the new economy that and and and find new ways

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Speaker 2: to tax them. I mean in terms in terms of

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Speaker 2: capital flows, you know, I mean we've seen this, you know,

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Speaker 2: people that are that are coming into the tax net,

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Speaker 2: that our influencers on social media. But I think there's

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Speaker 2: a lot more work to be done there to really

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Speaker 2: modernize an organization to say that as supply chains become

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Speaker 2: more complex, you know, are we taxing at all the

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Speaker 2: right right points and are we equipped to do that?

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Speaker 2: And you know, we have to be close to the

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Speaker 2: developments in that space so that we can collect taxes

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Speaker 2: because that's what makes the country go around.

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Speaker 1: Would it be fair to say that nowadays a tax

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Speaker 1: authority is really only as good as it's it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is one of the areas you have to invest

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Speaker 1: you have to make sure you're up to the minute,

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Speaker 1: and you have to make sure your systems work efficiently,

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Speaker 1: correctly and get you the right amount of money.

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Speaker 2: I think, I mean technology is critical and that's sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, critically two different levels. One is just

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Speaker 2: in terms of the way that uh, you know TUCH

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Speaker 2: space interact with the revenue authority. So you know, the

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Speaker 2: the the compliance process has to be seamless. So you

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Speaker 2: must make it easy for people to actually submit their

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Speaker 2: returns and pay their tax. And you know a lot

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Speaker 2: of being has been done in the E filing space

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Speaker 2: and you know that that has reviews, you know, significant barriers.

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Speaker 2: It's a much easier to fill in your tax return

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Speaker 2: now than it was ten years ago because it's pretty

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Speaker 2: much prepopulated in the in the circumstances. So you know,

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Speaker 2: that's a critical component of it. I mean the other

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Speaker 2: sideware technology is it is important is you know, is

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Speaker 2: in terms of that third party UH validation, verification from

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Speaker 2: the banks, from the state, from you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: employers generally. You know, you know sort of think of

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Speaker 2: the the I the I R P five system for

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Speaker 2: for p YE that that works well and you know

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Speaker 2: generates the highest level of tax in the in the circumstances.

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Speaker 2: So you know that I mean sort of gathering that

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Speaker 2: intelligence and how having ways to interrogate the significant data

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Speaker 2: around that is important and I think we're going to

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Speaker 2: see a lot more of that as the that modernization

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Speaker 2: process develops. But you know, the other thing that I

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Speaker 2: think is also very important is in a revenue authorities

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Speaker 2: is really you know, understanding the law and the way

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Speaker 2: that you interpret the law, and that that is then

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Speaker 2: trans transferred into the it processes because you know, if

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Speaker 2: you haven't got good experience as far as as far

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Speaker 2: as that's concerned, then you're not going to be able

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Speaker 2: to achieve that. And then there needs to be some

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Speaker 2: level of enforcement almost audit capability, so that people know

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Speaker 2: at some point in the time they will be audited.

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Speaker 2: So you know, if anybody is taking any chances on

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Speaker 2: their on their taxes, they will be caught out at

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Speaker 2: some point in time, either by that sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: intelligent minding of of of data or simple by you know,

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Speaker 2: simply by an old style audit or lifestyle audit that

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Speaker 2: is conducted in the circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Charles A bit, thanks so much, taxi executive at n

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Speaker 1: SO africate,