1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: O two, Let's walk the All. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: by Abscess Sponsorships, proud sponsor of the absur kape Epic 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails. ABSET 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 2: is a registered FSP. Good evening, I'm Stephen Curtis. Welcome 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: to the Money Show. Nine minutes after six tonight as 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: we join you, breaking news the Karteng Premier Panyaza la 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: Sofia appointing in Coloekodonga from the EFF to be the 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: new finance pot the FINANCEMEC in the Karteng Politically, I 11 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: think probably quite a big move. Donga is if I 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 2: recall correctly, the Karting leader of the EFF was their 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: caucus leader in ekuro Leni as well and someone with 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: quite a bit of experience in governance. I don't know 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: about the message that sends in terms of who the 16 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: ANC wants to work with the national government. We obviously 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: have the National Coalition with the DA in Kharteng. The 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: Karting ANC, it seems, just refused to follow that model 19 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: despite what happened in cases then and instead, I decided 20 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: to work with other parties. Now giving the position of 21 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: Finance MEC to the EFF probably part of a bigger 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: deal if you look at some of the things that 23 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: have been happening around ekuro Leni Panazzalala Sufi the Premier 24 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: saying that this was done with permission from the ANC's 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: national structures. Your thoughts please, a chance for the EFF 26 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: to show it can govern, that it can control money, 27 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: that it can manage money. Oh seven two seven oh 28 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 2: two one seven oh two. Do you have a different view? 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: Do you think, actually this is not going to end well, 30 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: that there's a bigger political signal being sent here. I 31 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: did wonder cross my mind what does this do for 32 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: the prospects of the DA. In Joe book you have 33 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: Helen Zilla putting snorkels on and jumping into bare hool, 34 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: botholes and things quite strange in a way, and I 35 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: sort of just wonder, like, how does one affect the other? 36 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: If at all your thoughts please EFF Finance MEC and Karteng. 37 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: Does it change anything for you? What do you think 38 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: actually maybe it's the start of a political change or 39 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: the big story probably today around SARS getting two trillion 40 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: rand in net tax collections. For the first time. We'll 41 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: speak to the commissioner at SARS. I should probably technically 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 2: call them the outgoing commission Edward Kisvetto. In a moment, 43 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: I was slightly surprised. I should have known. But going 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: through the Competition Commission's latest report, they've got a cost 45 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 2: of living report out today, and to see the astonishing 46 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: rate at which electricity and water prices have gone up. 47 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: I mean in the last five years, since the beginning 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, electricity is up eighty five percent, electricity 49 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: water is up sixty eight percent. I'd love to know, 50 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: please the impact of that on you. You know just 51 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: how big an impact water and electricity prices have had 52 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 2: on you over the last few years on oh seven 53 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 2: two seven two one seven o two. And one of 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: the problems is we talk about keeping inflation low and 55 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: interest rates low, but you can't do that if electricity 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: and water prices are going up so dramatic. It just 57 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: can't be done. We'll talk about the future of mining 58 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: in South Africa with David from VACERD around twenty to seven, 59 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 2: and then SAA a new report out on their financial report. 60 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: It suggests amazingly. I've never seen a financial report that's 61 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 2: made this mistake. It gets millions and billions muddled up. Hey, 62 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: And the suggestion from doctor Guy Leach, you'll knowme as 63 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: the aviation industry that expert that in fact, and the 64 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: way in which the airline is managing itself, it's sort 65 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: of assessing itself is incorrect. It should be using it 66 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: should be using kilometers rather than rands. Guy Leach is 67 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: the expert. You'll explain that to you, and of course 68 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: we'll offer SAA a rite of reply once we've heard 69 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: from doctor Guy Leach. Good year from you tonight O 70 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: double one double A three oh seven oh two and 71 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: two one four four six O five six seven A 72 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: lot going on tonight twelve minutes after six The NY Show. 73 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: With Stephen Kruts Live on ninety two point seven and 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus. 75 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: Snap and Channel eight five six. 76 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: Confirmation today that SARS has finally broken the two trillion 77 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: round barrier, able to get just over two trillion ten 78 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: billion round for the financial year that ended last night. 79 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: Edward kiss Vegerous, the commissioner at SARS, A commissioner, good 80 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: evening to you and thank you for your time and 81 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: congratulations on your figures. You say, one of the reasons 82 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: this happened is that there's been better compliance, and I 83 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: presume more people are paying more of the tax that 84 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: they owe. It is such an important issue. What has 85 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: changed over the last year. What have you been able 86 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: to do to make that happen? 87 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 4: Steven, thank you. It's not what happened in the last year. 88 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 4: It's the compounding effect of the years, the seven years 89 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 4: of work that has consistently looked at broadening the tax 90 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 4: post to ensure that everyone who should be registered or registered, 91 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 4: that those who should file in fact file and file, 92 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 4: that it turns on time. We have I had many 93 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 4: abuses where people file their returns but don't pay the payments. 94 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: So it is the meticulous follow up of every of 95 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 4: these outstanding actions that have ensured that currently our registration 96 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 4: compliance is almost ninety percent and very pleasingly, payment compliance 97 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 4: is now approaching seventy five percent. These were all in 98 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 4: the late fifties or early sixties when we started. Overall 99 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 4: compliance has now crushed seventy percent. So if a taxpayer, 100 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 4: for example, is non compliant in year one and we 101 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 4: are able to change their behavior and make sure the 102 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 4: behavior stays changed. 103 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 5: There is an. 104 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 4: Endowment effect on compliance, and that's an important acknowledgement is 105 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 4: that SARS is not a set of transactions that are 106 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 4: built an institutional system of improved, more efficient, and more 107 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 4: effective tax administration. And that's what you're seeing today, even 108 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 4: and in an economy that is fairly sluggish. One has 109 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 4: to ask the question, how is SARS able to collect 110 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 4: a year long year tax growth of eight point four 111 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 4: percent when economic conditions are just under five percent? It 112 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 4: is that compounding effect of building institutional integrity? 113 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: Does that lead to more disputes? As the rate of 114 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: disputees gone up as a result. If you've come knocking 115 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: on more doors for tax you know, does that lead 116 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: to a few more arguments? 117 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: I think we were are. There are a number of 118 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 4: reasons why taxpayers may dispute. Let me start at the 119 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 4: most abusive end. Very often taxpayers just will kick the 120 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 4: can down the road and they will dispute, object or 121 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 4: appeal just to buy time and to try their luck 122 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 4: TATA muchance. And in many cases those disputes can go 123 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 4: on for years until eventually it becomes almost uneconomical or 124 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 4: they are not a business or they disappear off the 125 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 4: face of the earth, which has also meant that our 126 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 4: debt book has grown significantly. We have seen in the 127 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: last year that our debtbook growth has seen a significant 128 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 4: shift to more complex debt that taxpayers are not able 129 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 4: to pay, So that's the first reason. Secondly, there's a 130 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 4: genuine financial distress out there, so taxpayers don't necessarily dispute 131 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 4: the assessment, they just don't have the money. We've seen 132 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 4: a significant increase in deferred payment arrangements and then taxpayers 133 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 4: default on that. We have seen increasingly an application for 134 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 4: debt compromises, so that also means we need more technical 135 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 4: skills legal debt collections to follow that up and to 136 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 4: enter into the engagement with cars resolve those disputes. So 137 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 4: it's a million of reasons that have seen the and 138 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 4: then of course sometimes we do get it wrong. And 139 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 4: I'm pleased to say that in individual taxes, our auto 140 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 4: assessment of six million people with a more than ninety 141 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 4: eight almost ninety nine percent acceptance rate suggests that the 142 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 4: deployment of technology and AI and data science has helped 143 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 4: us to decrease that margin of error to around about 144 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 4: one percent and hopefully that will be able to be 145 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 4: leveraged across the other tax types as well. 146 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: You aren't finished with the technology. There's a new modernization 147 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: program I think you call it modernization three point zero. 148 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: There'll be a unique digital identity for a taxpayer. How's 149 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: that different to the situation now? Normally? Now, if you 150 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: go onto E filing, for example, you will be put 151 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: in your name or use the name, you'll put in 152 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: your password. Then they'll be which has become quite a 153 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: standard thing. The SMS you need to put in the 154 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: SMS code that sense you need to go from there. 155 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: How's this new thing going to be different? 156 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 4: You know, Stephen, one of the most frustrating even I 157 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 4: forget my tax password every year because you're only engaged 158 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 4: with stars, you know, many taxpayers once a year, provisional taxpayers, 159 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 4: you know, maybe a few times more year. So we 160 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 4: have had to deal with taxpayers just forgetting their username 161 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 4: in passwords. We've built now at least a platform, whether 162 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 4: it's what's app or even a what we call a 163 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 4: dumb phone if you don't have a smartphone or a 164 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 4: mobile device, where you can go through a self help 165 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 4: system so you can get your your your password the 166 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 4: passwords are really old school. People forget their passwords, they 167 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 4: compromise their password, and we find many taxpayers being scammed. 168 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 4: And so increasingly the world is moving towards biometric authentication, 169 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 4: which we have begun to now deploy in the last 170 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 4: fifteen eighteen months. Then we have two factor authentication that 171 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 4: goes with that, which means that you'll use biometrics to 172 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 4: be recognized once you are in. There may be certain 173 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 4: high risk, high risk transactions when it involves especially refunds 174 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 4: or banking details. We may introduce a second layer world 175 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 4: what we call two factor authentication, where we send you 176 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 4: a one time pin, but increasingly we want to work 177 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 4: towards biometric authentication. Secondly, we also find that for about 178 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 4: sixty two million individuals in South Africa, we have about 179 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 4: seven to eight digital identities for every individual, which creates 180 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 4: the opportunity for arbitrage. Stephen Hurtis maybe have an ID number, 181 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 4: may have a tax number for his income. He may 182 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 4: have that number if he's a director. If he goes 183 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 4: about Iguanev Hospital, he's got a hospital number. And so 184 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 4: you can end up with a number of different identities 185 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 4: which allows for arbitrage and client. A unique digital identity 186 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 4: is the whole of government endeavor. Where we have a 187 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 4: population register which is the only identity of you, we 188 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 4: turn that from the current identities that we have into 189 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 4: a unique digital identity that will identify you across the 190 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 4: lele of government. There's no need there for in the 191 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 4: future for SARS to give you for home affairs to 192 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 4: give you an ID number, and for SARAS to give 193 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 4: you a tax number. You'll be known across the system 194 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 4: of government with one. So that's the power of the 195 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 4: unique identifier, together with the biometric and two factor edification, 196 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 4: will strengthen the system and eliminate or at least reduce 197 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 4: the risk of fraud. 198 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: Commission Mister Commissioner, I really appreciate the time you've always 199 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: made yourself very available for us, So thank you very 200 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: much indeed, and I hope we can still speak to 201 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: you in the near future. The outgoing commissioner at SARS, 202 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 2: Edward kissvetter a reporting back on their tax take tonight, 203 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: twenty one minutes after six. 204 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: Stephens on The Money Show six to eight pm. 205 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: Figures today from the Competition Commission showing the price you 206 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: pay for electricity has gone up by eighty five eighty 207 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: five percent since twenty twenty. Water price is sixty eight 208 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: percent up in that period. In other words, despite lower inflation, 209 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 2: most people are still just battling to get through the month. 210 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: They release their twenty twenty six Cost of Living report today. 211 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: The principal economist at the Competition Commission is RuSHA dash 212 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: rackshare good evening. This is really about administered prices, the 213 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: price we pay for something that's essentially you can only 214 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 2: get it from one place, from a government entity. How 215 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: big an impact of these prices having on people's daily lives. 216 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 3: Yes, thank you so much for having me so, you're 217 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 3: quite right. The electricity prices have increased by about eighty 218 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 3: five percent, water sixty eight percent, and therese are quite 219 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: significant increases over the five year period. And these increases 220 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: have an impact on items such as food. Because electricity 221 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: prices go up, water prices go up, it affects a 222 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: whole lot of items that consumers rely on and basically 223 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 3: squeezes consumers budgets. So low income households are already struggling 224 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 3: with limited budget and now if they have to pay 225 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 3: more for electricity for water, then it reduces their income 226 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 3: that's available for other necessities like food, education, hospital bills. 227 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: There's a whole number of other necessities that consumers rely 228 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: on and that gets affected when one item basic necessity 229 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 3: is cost increases. 230 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting to sort of go through the 231 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: surveys that you've done over the last few years. I mean, 232 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: primary school inflation is up. High school inflation is actually 233 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,479 Speaker 2: higher than primary school inflation. Education matters to so many families, 234 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: what's driving that. 235 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 3: So what we've found is that it's what's causing these 236 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: increases is mainly operational cost increases which are not fully 237 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 3: covered by government funding. So we know that some of 238 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: the public schools are not fully funded by government. So 239 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 3: these are the ones that we looked at where school 240 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 3: fees are paid by parents, so there's part funding by 241 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 3: government and because of a rise in operational costs, yeah, 242 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: the government subst is that they receive are just not 243 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 3: sufficient to cover the costs. There's also other evin electricity 244 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: costs would affect them as well. Because these are all 245 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: increases the operational needs and because the subsidies are not 246 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 3: sufficiently covering that, their costs are just increasing and therefore 247 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: the school FeAs The increasing. 248 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: Food price inflation really matters as well. In mayze meal 249 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: very important. We've seen the production cost of that actually 250 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: come down according to your report. Are maze meal prices 251 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: coming down to Are food markets working as they should? 252 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 6: No? 253 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: So for ma's meal, what we've found is that the 254 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 3: price of white maze seeds has decreased, as you say, 255 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 3: so the seeds maye seeds have decreased the price. But 256 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 3: what we see is that the producer prices for the 257 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: cost of producing maize meal and the price that they 258 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: charge has not come down to the same extent. So 259 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: at the producer level, even though the input, which is 260 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 3: the maze seeds, the price has come down significantly, producer 261 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 3: prices for me mil are still quite high and retail 262 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 3: prices are also high. So we're not seeing that pass 263 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: through to consumers even though the seed price has decreased. 264 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: I mean, as a sort of shorthand, and we try 265 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: and assess how people are doing, we look at the 266 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: inflation rate. It's one number, it's sort of relatively easy 267 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: to understand, and yet from your report, which is obviously 268 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: much more detailed, it's not rarely giving us an accurate 269 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: picture of what's going on. And I mean partly that's 270 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: because of what's in the in the in the CPI basket, 271 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: you have appliances in there, for example, most people don't 272 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: buy an appliance every month or even every year. Do 273 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: we need another way of understanding, another shorthand way, maybe 274 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: another figure or another mechanism or something to understand how 275 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: people are doing? Because when inflation is as low as 276 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: it is, you kind of think, great, life's getting better 277 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: for people, but from your report it clearly isn't. 278 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 3: Yes, So this is what the POT tries to do. 279 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 3: So we look at how prices are, so we track 280 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 3: prices and compare them to overall inflation. So we're quite right. 281 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: Overall inflation has come down, and it creates an impression 282 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 3: that prices have come down. But if you look at 283 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: individual items and focus specifically on what low income households 284 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 3: are consuming, then the individual items do show a different picture. 285 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 3: And some of the above inflation increases that we have seen, 286 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: as we've pointed out in the report, are electricity, water, education, 287 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 3: even primary healthcare services. So these are above inflation, and 288 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 3: the report tries to point that out to show you 289 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: know where consumers are impacted by a large amount. 290 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: Racha Darcy, thanks so much principally economists that the Competition 291 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: Commission I founder report fascinating available on the Competition Commission website. 292 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: Twenty seven after six The Money Show the Market. Chris 293 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 2: Stewart's a portfolio manager at ninety one, Chris, Good evening. 294 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: So you have the US President Donald Trump saying to Router's, well, 295 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: maybe the US will get out of Iran quite quickly. 296 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: There's a big announcement tonight. He's doing a televised address 297 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: in the US tonight, and suddenly we see sort of 298 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: the unwinding of pretty much all the market activity over 299 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 2: the last month. Yeah, good evening, Steven. 300 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 7: You could be forgiven if you look at your screens 301 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 7: today for thinking of March as an aberration or a 302 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 7: bad dream. You know, the market is now in positive 303 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 7: territory again. 304 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: Year to date. 305 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 7: The US markets are only modestly off year to date. 306 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 7: The rand is pretty flat against the major crosses on 307 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 7: a year to date basis. The gold price is up 308 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 7: here to date, platinum prices recovering quite nice. And the 309 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 7: only thing that sort of stands out on your screen 310 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 7: is but hold on. The oil price is still up 311 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 7: between seventy and eighty percent, So far this year, despite 312 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 7: the fact it's come off down to closer to one 313 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 7: hundred dollars a barrel mark again today, having peaked at 314 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 7: I don't know whatever it was one hundred and eighteen 315 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 7: dollars a barrel yesterday, So you know it's it's but 316 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 7: can we say right, you know, it's game on. Everything's okay. 317 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 7: We saw some good macro data in the domestic economy today, 318 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 7: very very strong vehicle sales numbers. Once again, there's going 319 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 7: to be lots of shiny new cars probably sitting in 320 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 7: people's garages because they. 321 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: Can't afford to put petrol or diesel in them. 322 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 7: But you know, it just shows where we would be 323 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 7: were it not I guess, for this rather inconvenient walk 324 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 7: going on in around and the impact that it's had 325 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 7: on the global oil price. Because other than that, you know, 326 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 7: things are looking reasonably positive domestically and indeed globally. You know, 327 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 7: the US jobs data today wasn't bad. You know, mortgage 328 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 7: application data wasn't great, but wasn't a disaster either relative 329 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 7: to expectations. So you know, generally speaking, things are looking okay. 330 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 7: But unfortunately there's a big but there, and the big 331 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 7: butt is who knows what. You know, what Trump says 332 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 7: this evening, who knows what the stance is, Who knows who, 333 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 7: if anybody he's speaking to within the Iranian regime. Certainly 334 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 7: everything he says is almost immediately contradicted via the various 335 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 7: data sources or information sources coming out of Iran. So 336 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 7: you know, we could wake up in two days time 337 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 7: and we'd be sitting with markets off three percent and 338 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 7: a disaster enhance. 339 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: Again, I mean, this is the whole problem. Is there 340 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: the share volatility of it. I mean, it's relentless, It 341 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: must be exhausting. That is also quite difficult to sort 342 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: of consider and invest over the longer term, and just 343 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: that must have an economic impact, Yeah, I mean exactly. 344 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 7: You know, this degree of uncertainty is not going to 345 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 7: be good for businesses who are planning to invest. It's 346 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 7: you know, there's there's huge amounts of uncertainty as to 347 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 7: what's going to happen to price. 348 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 4: A set of transactions that are built an institutional system 349 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 4: of improved, more efficient and more effective administration. And that's 350 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 4: what you're seeing today, even and in an economy that 351 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 4: is fairly sluggish, one has to ask the question, how 352 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 4: is sars able to collect a year year tax growth 353 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 4: of eight point four percent when economic conditions are just 354 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 4: under five percent. It is that compounding effect of building 355 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 4: institutional integrity. 356 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,479 Speaker 2: Does that lead to more disputes as the rate of 357 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 2: disputeses gone up as a result, If you've come knocking 358 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 2: on more doors for tax you know, does that lead 359 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 2: to a few more arguments? 360 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 4: I think we were are. There are a number of 361 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 4: reasons why taxpayers may dispute. Let me start at the 362 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 4: most abusive end. Very often taxpayers just or kick the 363 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 4: can down the road and they will dispute, object or 364 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 4: appeal just to buy time and to to try their luck. 365 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 4: Tata muchance, and in many cases those disputes can go 366 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 4: on for years until eventually it becomes almost uneconomical, or 367 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 4: they are not of business, or they disappear off the 368 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 4: face of the earth. Which has also meant that our 369 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 4: debt book has grown significantly. We have seen in the 370 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 4: last year that our debtbook growth has seen a significant 371 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 4: shift to more complex debt that taxpayers are not able 372 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 4: to pay. So that's the first reason. Secondly, there's a 373 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 4: genuine financial distress out there, so taxpayers don't necessarily dispute 374 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 4: the assessment. They just don't have the money. We've seen 375 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 4: a significant increase in deferred payment arrangements and then taxpayers 376 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 4: default on that. We have seen increasingly an application for 377 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 4: debt compromises, so that also means we need more technical 378 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 4: skills legal debt caill estions to follow that up and 379 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 4: to enter into the engagement with cars resolve those disputes. 380 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 4: So it's a million of reasons that have seen the 381 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 4: and then of course sometimes we do get it rung. 382 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 4: And I'm pleased to say that in individual taxes, our 383 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 4: auto assessment of six million people with a more than 384 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 4: ninety eight almost ninety nine percent acceptance rate suggests that 385 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 4: the deployment of technology and AI and data science has 386 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 4: helped us to decrease that margin of error to around 387 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 4: about one percent, and hopefully that will be able to 388 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 4: be leveraged across the other tax types as well. 389 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: You aren't finished with the technology. There's a new modernization program. 390 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: I think you call it modernization three point zero. There'll 391 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: be a unique digital identity for a taxpayer. How's that 392 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 2: different to the situation now? Normally now, if you go 393 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: onto E filing, for example, you will be put in 394 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: your name, you'll use the name you'll put in your password, 395 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: then they'll be which has become quite a standard thing. 396 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: The SMS you need to put in the SMS code, 397 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 2: that sense you need to go from there. How's this 398 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: new thing going to be different? 399 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 4: You know, Stephen, one of the most frustrating even I 400 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 4: forget my tax password every year because you're only engaged 401 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 4: with stars, you know, many taxpayers once a year. Provisional taxpayers, 402 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 4: you know, maybe a few times more year. So we 403 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 4: have had to deal with taxpayers just forgetting their username 404 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 4: in passwords. We've built now at least a platform, whether 405 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 4: it's what's app or even a what we call a 406 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 4: dumb phone if you don't have a smartphone or a 407 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 4: mobile device, where you can go through a self help 408 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 4: system so you can get your your your password. The 409 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 4: passwords are really old school. People forget their passwords, they 410 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 4: compromise their passwords, and we find many taxpayers being scammed. 411 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 4: And so increasingly the world is moving towards biometric authentication, 412 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 4: which we have begun to now deploy in the last 413 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: fifteen eighteen months. Then we have two factor authentication that 414 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 4: goes with that, which means that you know you'll use 415 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 4: biometrics to be recognized once you are in. There may 416 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 4: be certain high risk, high risk transactions when it involves 417 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 4: especially refunds or banking details. We may introduce a second 418 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 4: layer world what we call two factor authentication, where we 419 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 4: send you a one time pin, but increasingly we want 420 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 4: to work towards biometric authentication. Secondly, we also find that 421 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 4: for about sixty two million individuals in South Africa have 422 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 4: about seven to eight digital identities for every individual, which 423 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 4: creates the opportunity for arbitrage. Stephen Hurtis maybe have an 424 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 4: ID number, may have a tax number for his income. 425 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 4: He may have that number if he's a director. If 426 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 4: he goes about Iguanev Hospital, he's got a hospital number. 427 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 4: And so you can end up with a number of 428 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 4: different identities which allows for arbitrage and client A unique 429 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 4: digital identity is the whole of government endeavor. Where we 430 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 4: have a population register which is the only identity of you, 431 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 4: we turn that from the current identities that we have 432 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 4: into a unique digital identity that will identify you across 433 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 4: the lel of government. There's no need there for in 434 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 4: the future for SARS to give you for homofairs to 435 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 4: give you an ID number, and for SaaS to give 436 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 4: you a tax number, you'll be known across the system 437 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 4: of government with one. So that's the power of of 438 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 4: the unique identifier, together with the biometric and two factor edification, 439 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 4: will strengthen the system and eliminate or at least reduce 440 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 4: the risk of fraud. 441 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: Commission Mister Commissioner, I really appreciate the time you've always 442 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 2: made yourself very available for us, So thank you very 443 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: much indeed, and I hope we can still speak to 444 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 2: you in the near future. The outgoing commissioner at SARS, 445 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: Edward Kissvetter, are reporting back on their tax take tonight 446 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 2: twenty one minutes after six. 447 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: Stephens on The Money Show six. 448 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: To eight pm. 449 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: Figures today from the Competition Commission showing the price you 450 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: pay for electricity has gone up by eighty five eighty 451 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: five percent since twenty twenty. Water price is sixty eight 452 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: percent up in that period. In other words, despite lower inflation, 453 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: most people are still just battling to get through the month. 454 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 2: They release their twenty twenty six Cost of Living report today. 455 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: The principal economist at the Competition Commission is Raksha Dhaji 456 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 2: rak So Good evening. This is really about administered prices, 457 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: the price we pay for something that's essentially you can 458 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: only get it from one place, from a government entity. 459 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: How big an impact of these prices having on people's 460 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: daily lives. 461 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 3: Yes, thank you so much for having me. 462 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 8: So you're quite right. 463 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 3: The electricity prices have increased by about eighty five percent, 464 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 3: water sixty eight percent, and there's are quite significant increases 465 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 3: over the five year period. And these increases have an 466 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 3: impact on items such as food. Because electricity prices go up, 467 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: water prices go up, it affects a whole lot of 468 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: items that consumers rely on and basically squeezes consumers budgets. 469 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 3: So low income households are already struggling with limited budget 470 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: and now if they have to pay more for electricity 471 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: for water, then it reduces their income that's available for 472 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 3: other necessities like food, education, hospital bills. There's a whole 473 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: number of other necessities that consumers rely on and that 474 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 3: gets affected when one item basic necessity is cost increases. 475 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting to sort of go through the 476 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: surveys that you've done over the last few years. I mean, 477 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 2: primary school inflation is up, high school inflation is actually 478 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 2: higher than primary school inflation. Education matters to so many families. 479 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 2: What's driving that. 480 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 3: So what we've found is that it's what's causing these 481 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: increases is mainly operational cost increases which are not fully 482 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 3: covered by government funding. So we know that some of 483 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 3: the public schools are not fully funded by government. So 484 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 3: these are the ones that we looked at where school 485 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 3: fees are paid by parents, so there's part funding by 486 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: government and because of a rise in operational costs, Yeah, 487 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: the government subsidies that there is see if are just 488 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 3: not sufficient to cover the costs. There's also other evin 489 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 3: electricity costs would affect them as well. Because these are 490 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 3: all increases the operational needs and because the subsidies are 491 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 3: not sufficiently covering that, their costs are just increasing and 492 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 3: therefore the school FeAs The increasing. 493 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: Food price inflation really matters as well. In mayze meal 494 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: very important. We've seen the production cost of that actually 495 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: come down according to your report, Are maze meal prices 496 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 2: coming down to are food markets working as they should? 497 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 6: No? 498 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 3: So for Ma's meal, what we've found is that the 499 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 3: price of white maze seeds has decreased, as you say, 500 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 3: So the seeds maye seeds have decreased the price, but 501 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 3: what we see is that the producer prices for the 502 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 3: cost of producing maize meal and the price that they 503 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 3: charge has not come down to the same extent. So 504 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: at the producer level, even though the input, which is 505 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 3: the maze seeds, the has come down significantly, producer prices 506 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 3: for me I mean are still quite high and retail 507 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 3: prices are also high. So we're not seeing that pass 508 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: through to consumers even though the seed price has decreased. 509 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: I mean, as a sort of shorthand, and we try 510 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: and assess how people are doing. We look at the 511 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: inflation rate. It's one number. It's sort of relatively easy 512 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: to understand, and yet from your report, which is obviously 513 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: much more detailed, it's not rarely giving us an accurate 514 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 2: picture of what's going on. And I mean partly that's 515 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 2: because of what's in the in the in the CPI basket, 516 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 2: you have appliances in there, for example, most people don't 517 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: buy an appliance every month or even every year. Do 518 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: we need another way of understanding, another shorthand way, maybe 519 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: another figure or another mechanism or something to understand how 520 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 2: people are doing, because when inflation is as low as 521 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: it is, you kind of think great, life's getting better 522 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 2: for people, but from your report it clearly isn't. 523 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 3: Yes, So this is what the report price to do. 524 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 3: So we look at how prices are, so we track 525 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 3: prices and compare them to overall inflation. So we're quite right. 526 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 3: Overall inflation has come down, and it creates an impression 527 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 3: that prices have come down. But if you look at 528 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 3: individual items and focus specifically on what low income households 529 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 3: are consuming, then the individual items do show a different picture. 530 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 3: And some of the above inflation increases that we have seen, 531 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 3: as we've pointed out in the report, are electricity, water, education, 532 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 3: even primary healthcare services. So these are above inflation, and 533 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 3: the report tries to point that out to show you 534 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 3: know where consumers are impacted by a large amount. 535 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 2: Racha Darcy thanks so much, principally economists that the Competition 536 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 2: Commission I founder report fascinating available on the Competition Commission website. 537 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 2: Twenty seven after. 538 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 7: Six the Market. 539 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: Chris Steward's a portfolio manager at ninety one Chris Good evening. 540 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: So you have the US President Donald Trump saying to Router's, well, 541 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: maybe the US will get out of Iran quite quickly. 542 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: There's a big announcement to night. He's doing a televised 543 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: address in the US tonight, and suddenly we see sort 544 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 2: of the unwinding of pretty much all the market activity 545 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: over the last month. Yeah, good evening, Steven. 546 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 7: You could be forgiven if you look at your screens 547 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 7: today for thinking of March as an aberration or a 548 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 7: bad dream. You know, the market is now in positive 549 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 7: territory again year to date. The US markets are only 550 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 7: modestly off year to date. The rand is pretty flat 551 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 7: against the major crosses on a year to date basis. 552 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 7: The gold price is up here to date, platinum prices 553 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 7: recovering quite nice. And the only thing that sort of 554 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 7: stands out on your screen is but hold on. The 555 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,719 Speaker 7: oil price is still up between seventy and eighty percent 556 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 7: so far this year, despite the fact it's come off 557 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 7: down to closer to one hundred dollars barrel mark again today, 558 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 7: having peaked at I don't know whatever it was one 559 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 7: hundred and eighteen dollars a barrel yesterday, So you know 560 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 7: it's it's but can we say right, you know, it's 561 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 7: game on. Everything's okay. We saw some good macro data 562 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 7: in the domestic economy today, very very strong vehicle sales numbers. 563 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 7: Once again, there's going to be lots of shiny new 564 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 7: cars probably sitting in people's garages because they can't afford 565 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 7: to put petrol or. 566 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: Diesel in them. 567 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 7: But you know, it just shows where we would be 568 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 7: were it not, I guess, for this rather inconvenient walk 569 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 7: going on in around and the impact that it's had 570 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 7: on the global oil price. Because other than that, you know, 571 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 7: things are looking reasonably positive domestically and indeed globally. You know, 572 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 7: the US jobs data today wasn't bad. You know, mortgage 573 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 7: application data wasn't great, but wasn't a disaster either relative 574 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 7: to expectations. So you know, generally speaking, things are looking okay. 575 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 7: But unfortunately there's a big bats out there, and the 576 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 7: big that is who knows what you know, what Trump 577 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 7: says this evening, who knows what the stance is, Who 578 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 7: knows who, if anybody he's speaking to within the Iranian regime. 579 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 7: Certainly everything he says is almost immediately contradicted via the 580 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 7: various data sources or information sources coming out of Iran. 581 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 7: So you know, we could wake up in two days 582 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 7: time and we'd be sitting with markets off three percent 583 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 7: and a disaster enhance. 584 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 2: Again, I mean, this is the whole problem. Is there 585 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 2: the share volatility of it. I mean, it's relentless. It 586 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: must be exhausting. That is also quite difficult to sort 587 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: of consider and invest over the longer term. And just 588 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 2: that must have an economic impact. Yeah, I mean exactly. 589 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 7: You know, this degree of uncertainty is not going to 590 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 7: be good for businesses who are planning to invest. It's 591 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 7: you know, there's there's huge amounts of uncertainty as to 592 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 7: what's going to happen to price is the future, what's 593 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 7: the oil price going to happen, you know, going to 594 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,479 Speaker 7: have in the future. Nonetheless, it does appear as though 595 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 7: most businesses are trying to look through this. I saw 596 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 7: some data today that looked at basically, you know, merger 597 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 7: and acquisition corporate activity in the US in the first 598 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 7: quarter of this year is running twenty twenty five percent 599 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 7: higher than it was in the equivalent quarter last year. 600 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 7: So you know, ail is not falling in a heap. 601 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 7: And I guess there's a general view that you know, 602 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 7: Trump wants and needs from a political perspective, some sort 603 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 7: of off ramp from this war. He needs to do 604 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 7: it in some manner that he can at least credibly 605 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 7: say to his voting base that he's achieved the goals 606 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 7: that he set when he went in. I think the 607 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 7: Iranians know that, and they're going to make it increasingly 608 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 7: difficult for him to do so. But generally speaking, I 609 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 7: think the consensus view remains that we are going to 610 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 7: see some sort of de escalation the residual pain. I 611 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 7: guess that will be felt even if we do manage 612 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 7: to achieve that is, we are going to see a 613 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 7: structurally higher oil price for the foreseeable future. And a 614 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 7: structurally higher oil price for the foreseeable future is generally 615 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 7: not good for the globe. Some economies benefits, some don't, 616 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 7: but in particular it's not very good for South Africa. 617 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 2: Chris jad thanks so much, Portfolio manager at ninety one 618 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 2: just after six thirty seven on seven two seven two 619 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: one seven oh two. It's on the question of the 620 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 2: eff joining the provincial government in Kharteng and called Lekudonga 621 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 2: used to be their leader in Ekroleennihill now be the 622 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 2: Finance ABC in Kharteng, Sapor saying I don't understand the 623 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 2: karting NC. Their plan is to prepare themselves to appease voters. 624 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: Maybe numbers are telling them if they lose national elections, 625 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: they'll balance the numbers with the EFF. Little do they 626 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 2: know that voter sentiments do not like Malemma. That's from Seirpor. Look, 627 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 2: lots of different views on this. I'm sure some people 628 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 2: are likely to be thinking, well, no, actually, maybe the 629 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: EFF needs a chance. I don't know. I don't know 630 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 2: what signal Pinaza Lasufi, the karting premier is sending here. 631 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 2: I mean clearly there's a coalition deal as part of 632 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 2: it as well, and sort of related to that. I've 633 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 2: been following as much as I can, because no one 634 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 2: is saying anything about it. The decision by the JAS 635 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,800 Speaker 2: on Friday announced it on sense It about noon, saying 636 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 2: that joe Berg's bonds had been suspended from trade. So 637 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 2: joe Berg, like other metros, they will have bonds that 638 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 2: put them on the JAC. That means that the city 639 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 2: has to comply with certain regulations like a company where 640 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 2: you can buy and sell and trade. Those bonds were 641 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: not anymore in Jerbig because that's been suspended by the 642 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 2: JAC and that's because the City of Jerberg hasn't published 643 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 2: its annual financial report. Now it seems to be caught 644 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 2: up in some sort of dispute with the orders to General. 645 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: The orders to General won't explain really what it is. 646 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 2: The City of Joeberg won't really explain what the dispute is. 647 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 2: The city of Cape Town had a similar problem. They 648 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 2: were able to get their financial report passed by the 649 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 2: council I think a week ago, and so their bonds 650 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 2: weren't suspended. What on earth is going on in Joeberg. 651 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 2: It's not a good look when this happens. But the 652 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 2: real thing is the transparency and where is that. I'm 653 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 2: afraid to say, I'm not going to hold my breath 654 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 2: for the moment. Maybe you know a little bit more 655 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 2: seven two seven two one seven twenty one minutes to 656 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 2: seven The Luney Show. 657 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: With Stephen Kruders Live on ninety two point seven and 658 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: one six them streaming on the Prime Media Plus NAP. 659 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 3: And DStv channel eight five. 660 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 2: Six eighteen minutes to seven that time. Well more warnings 661 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 2: this week that in fact, our mining industry is not 662 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 2: investing in enough new minds, and if you consider the 663 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 2: history of mining in South Africa, how important they it's 664 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 2: been to our economy. And while the proportion of mining 665 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 2: for our economy has been declining, it still matters. Look 666 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: how important the increase in the goal price has been 667 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,720 Speaker 2: and look what that's done at to government finances. For example, 668 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 2: in the ESA Investment conference yesterday, hearing that we're not 669 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 2: getting enough capital for future projects. David fan Bake is 670 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 2: a mining analyst, among several other things. David, good evening. 671 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 2: I really appreciate the time, Good afternoon. Why are we 672 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 2: finding it difficult to get capital to start new minds? 673 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 2: Is there a shortage of minerals to prospect? 674 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 9: No, I think that's South Africa as plenty of minerals, 675 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 9: you know, And the Minister introduced a new CADASCAR system 676 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 9: for prospectors and so on, which really is an indication 677 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 9: that since nineteen ninety four we actually actually gutted the 678 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 9: JEO Council, you know, and also mintech in the mining sector, 679 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 9: you know, because we've had annual publications on the mineral 680 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 9: resources of South Africa. I'm sitting with one on my 681 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 9: lap that's six hundred pages long, that was published in 682 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 9: nineteen ninety four, and you know, the government has since 683 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 9: kind of privatized prospecting, you know, so that the government 684 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 9: depends on the private sector to find the minerals, when 685 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 9: in actual fact we should as a government know where 686 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 9: the minerals are. But besides that, I think that we've 687 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 9: got a serious problem in this country because we have 688 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 9: a mining industry that is more than one hundred and 689 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 9: fifty years old, and we've got many declining mines and 690 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 9: mining towns and things like that, and we really have 691 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 9: to think beyond mining now. Even if the gold price 692 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 9: is where it is at the moment, probably about five 693 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 9: thousand dollars in arms, that is only because there's a 694 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 9: war in the Middle East going on at the moment, 695 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 9: you know, And as soon as that war dissipates and 696 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 9: it looks usip it's now reaching its end, the gold 697 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 9: price will fold dramatically. 698 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 10: The Money Show Stephen Freutes is brought to you by 699 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 10: Absord Sponsorships, the Cloud sponsor of the Absurd kape Epic, 700 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 10: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails. 701 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 2: Apps as are register their f FP eight minutes now 702 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 2: to seven, the time or some questions being asked about 703 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 2: the true financial health of SAA due to release it's 704 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 2: twenty twenty six financial reports soon, But it turns out 705 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 2: there may be some issues with its twenty twenty five 706 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 2: financial report, including the fact that words like millions and 707 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 2: billions to have been meddled up, some numbers changed during 708 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 2: the report, and all of this might actually mean that 709 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 2: instead of making a profit, it might be making a loss. 710 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 2: The questions come from doctor Guy Leechy's in aviation and listen, 711 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 2: before I start this conversation, let me just stress we'll 712 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,439 Speaker 2: hear a guy out and then of course we'll offer 713 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 2: SAA right of reply. Guy, good evening and thanks for 714 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 2: your time. You went through the report. What problems have 715 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 2: you found? 716 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 5: Yeah, hi Steven, and nice to be with you as allways, Well, 717 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 5: I mean we started sort of just going through it 718 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 5: as a sort of a matter of routine, and then 719 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 5: you kind of find these little jarring things, and then 720 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 5: of course look at a little bit more and a 721 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 5: little bit more you keep finding. We kept finding these 722 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 5: extraordinary inconsistencies, and the question which came to front of 723 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 5: mind quick was well, what profit did the airline actually 724 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 5: make in And the more we dug, the more we 725 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,240 Speaker 5: found that there were actually four differently possible perfect numbers, 726 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 5: of which most notably did it was probably one fifty 727 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 5: five billion and loss or thereabouts, because operating costs significantly 728 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 5: exceeded revenue, so any claim for making a profit was 729 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 5: obviously immediately examined or questioned. And then, of course we 730 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 5: just started to seeing more and more worm looking like 731 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 5: things in the woodwork, including the disposal of significant what 732 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 5: I call families saw their assets, like the slots that 733 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 5: spotted heathtrow and so on. So the whole thing began 734 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 5: to look like it had made a loss and not 735 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:29,320 Speaker 5: a profit. 736 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 2: Are they really mistakes about things like millions and billions? 737 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 2: I mean that's a substantial mistake. 738 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 5: Well, to give them their due, I mean it could 739 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 5: have been more like a punctuational mistake in that what 740 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 5: should have been either a pommer or a space in 741 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 5: terms of separating numbers, was actually a decimal. And then 742 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,799 Speaker 5: you're say, if you write nine decimal sixty three and 743 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 5: then you write million after it, is that you know 744 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 5: nine thousand vensityo thousand million or is it nine billion? 745 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,839 Speaker 5: Those a relatively minor issues in the overall schema thing. 746 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 5: The real committed gritty is what are the actual financials 747 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 5: hiding and what did they actually show? And you know, 748 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 5: as I said, the more I looked at it, the 749 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 5: more questions that arose. 750 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 2: Before you went public with us. I mean, I presume 751 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 2: you got in touch with them and ask them questions 752 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 2: about it. What did they say to you in response? 753 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I gave them three or four days together to 754 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,439 Speaker 5: give a reply. And I'm afraid that I really felt 755 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 5: that I just put a brush off in that they said, 756 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 5: I'm sorry, we're too busy for that sort of stuff. 757 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 5: Right now, I have had the new head of corporate 758 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 5: media relations, but on my case now, right before we 759 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 5: phoned saying oh they're inactiviacies and what you're saying, and 760 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,399 Speaker 5: of course you know he's talking that those numbers were 761 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 5: not exactly what they were supposed to be. By the way, 762 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,800 Speaker 5: he also points out that the CFO and the acting 763 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 5: CFO I didn't result, It wasn't forced out over her 764 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 5: retirement was overdue possibly who knows, But the reality is 765 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 5: that in terms of a pure analysis of the factor 766 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 5: is presented in the annual report, it would strongly suggest 767 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 5: that the airline is not upbeating profitably and not upbeating sustainably. 768 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 5: So then we need to look at the twenty twenty 769 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 5: four year, where also it was forced to restate a 770 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 5: claimed profit into a very significant loss in the order 771 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 5: of four hundred and fifty five million round or so. 772 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 5: So we're looking, in my opinion, at two years of losses. 773 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 2: Sure, I mean the idea that someone I mean, I 774 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 2: presume it was an acting chief financial officer, and they 775 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 2: prepared the report, and they turned out to be mistakes 776 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 2: in the report, and then they leave. I mean, I 777 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,080 Speaker 2: realized I'm a cynic and I live in a in 778 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 2: a cynical space in a cynical time. But quite often 779 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 2: these things do follow one after the other. You've been 780 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 2: told it was retirement. 781 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 5: Rather well, that's what the airline is maintaining, but certainly 782 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:58,359 Speaker 5: the timing is extraordinarily bad. The last time that one 783 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,439 Speaker 5: time you would think that would not suddenly leave, would 784 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 5: be invited that in the last day of the financial year, 785 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 5: when all the work really begins in terms of getting 786 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,879 Speaker 5: the financial results out. I need to buy the point out. 787 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 5: By the way, though, that this annual report for twenty 788 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 5: five twenty twenty five was only released in February, and 789 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 5: no doubt one of the reasons for that is that 790 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 5: the Order to General has not just issued a qualification, 791 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 5: but they've displained large parts of it, which is the 792 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 5: far greatest sanction or criticism, if you like, of the 793 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 5: whole accounting process. Then simply a qualification. 794 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 2: Okay. So if all of this is true, and Essay 795 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 2: is making a loss, and on the picture you've painted 796 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 2: that seems likely, then who's paying for the loss? They 797 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 2: still own by government, despite the sort of chant that 798 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,879 Speaker 2: the attempt to sell half of the door. 799 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:51,919 Speaker 6: Yeah. 800 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 5: Well, on page ninety four of the annual report there's 801 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 5: an incredibly cryptical little entry which says that the airline 802 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 5: issued a billion landsworth of shares and who would have 803 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 5: sold a shares to you? Were only the shareholder. So 804 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 5: the shareholder is the state of the government. So presumably 805 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 5: a million round changed hands somewhere. Again, SAA was on 806 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 5: the phone to me me just before this interview. So no, 807 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 5: but they didn't get any of that money. Maybe Adventure 808 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 5: the business Rescue. I'm far from convinced of that, because 809 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 5: Business Rescue was settled. And by the way, too, there's 810 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 5: I have a fairly reliable report that two billion rand 811 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 5: is on the in the draft budget for the medium 812 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 5: turn Policy budget as a loan for s a A 813 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,239 Speaker 5: presumably that comes through the woodwork in about October this year. 814 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,760 Speaker 5: So yeah, they have been raising money from different sources. 815 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 5: They for for instance, from seven their Heathrow spots, and 816 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,719 Speaker 5: they did have a significant little cash war chest, if 817 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 5: you like, left over from the business rescue process. So 818 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 5: they've been managing to get along without having to come 819 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,320 Speaker 5: gap and hand to the government to the text player. 820 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 5: But whether that's sustainable or not to appear to be 821 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 5: the case. 822 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 2: Doctor Guy Leach, thank you so much, the aviation analyst, 823 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,319 Speaker 2: or just to reiterate, we will ask essay, we will 824 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 2: offer them a right of reply, and I mean in 825 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 2: a way, and this happens, I'm afraid with entities. You 826 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,399 Speaker 2: will see a person asking questions, as Guy Leach has done, 827 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 2: Doctor Leach has done in this case, they get a 828 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 2: kind of brush off. You'll find then that they publish 829 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 2: and then the person is very upset that you published this. 830 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 2: And it seems to me almost that this might well 831 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 2: have happened in this case. As I say, happy to 832 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 2: hear the other side on the Money show. I think 833 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 2: if they have disputes with doctor Leach, owe him a 834 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 2: proper response too, so that he can properly report on that. 835 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 2: But clearly something very interesting going on. You at the 836 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 2: Money Show. Good evening at seven o'clock. 837 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,239 Speaker 3: And now the Money Show. 838 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: With Stephen on seven o two. 839 00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 2: Let's walk at all the Money Show with Stephen crue. 840 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 2: This is brought to you by Abscess Sponsorships, proud sponsor 841 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 2: of the absur Kpepeic celebrating twenty years of taking it 842 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 2: to the trails. ABS is origistered FSP eight minutes after 843 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 2: seven good evening. Lots to come in the next little while, 844 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 2: really looking forward to your shape shifter this evening, Grand Loche. 845 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,919 Speaker 2: He is the head of Volvo Essay. A lot going 846 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,840 Speaker 2: on around Volvo, A lot going on in the car industry, 847 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 2: so many different transitions. There's the sort of move from 848 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 2: fossil fuels to electric through hybrids or not through hybrids. 849 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 2: There is the sort of cheaper Chinese models coming through. 850 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,479 Speaker 2: You've also just got the whole way that we think 851 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,479 Speaker 2: of car ownership. And for years, you know, you bought 852 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,040 Speaker 2: a car, you kept it, you sold it, and only 853 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,160 Speaker 2: you used it or someone in your family used it. 854 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,560 Speaker 2: And look at all the arguments when Yola will have 855 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 2: with insurance companies about exactly that and that I think 856 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 2: might be changing with the finances around cars, and that's 857 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 2: something Grant Lock is an expert on. I'm looking forward 858 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 2: to that. Your consumer Najer Wendy Nola, she is talking 859 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 2: about cars as well, the National Consumer Tribunal and car Track. 860 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,719 Speaker 2: There's a really interesting situation there and in a moment 861 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 2: to speak to anievan Biek in business unusual how you 862 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 2: deal with a team that really you brought in to 863 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,319 Speaker 2: sort of fix the department or fix a company. Where 864 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,319 Speaker 2: do you start without breaking the people? I mean, that's 865 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 2: really the important thing. Isn't it good to hear from you? 866 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 2: O double ONEA A three oh seven oh two, O 867 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 2: two one four four six O five six siven and 868 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 2: voice notes of course nine O seven two seven oh 869 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,240 Speaker 2: two one seven oh two. 870 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,319 Speaker 1: The Lonely Show with Stephen krutis live on ninety two 871 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: point seven and one O six FM, streaming on the 872 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: Prime Media Plus. 873 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,360 Speaker 3: NAP and DStv channel eight five six. 874 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,839 Speaker 2: Talking of cars, news today that Stillantis, the big sort 875 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 2: of American European company will no longer be selling the 876 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,880 Speaker 2: fat five hundred in South Africa and they've been selling 877 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 2: Fiats here for years and years and years, and you 878 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 2: could probably almost I could probably tell your generation by 879 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 2: what your Fiat model was, what was popular when you 880 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 2: were young. For me, for my generation was the Uno, 881 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,280 Speaker 2: right was the cheapest car in South Africa at the time. 882 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 2: They used to have competitions. I mean, when I was 883 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,399 Speaker 2: lucky enough to be at university, how many people could 884 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,960 Speaker 2: you fit into an Uno? I think someone got twenty 885 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,840 Speaker 2: people in once. The car wasn't driving, at least I 886 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 2: don't think it was. I do think I got about 887 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,839 Speaker 2: eleven people into a Foxsvolgen Golf once and that did drive. 888 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 2: But that's a different story. But your memories of the 889 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 2: Fiat brand in South Africa, There'll be some people for 890 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 2: whom the Fat five hundred is the one that they remember. 891 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,279 Speaker 2: There'll be others who have very different memories. But a 892 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 2: Feat what is the Feat model that you will remember? 893 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:47,359 Speaker 9: Oh? 894 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 2: Seven to seven oh two one seven o two. Looking 895 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:51,400 Speaker 2: for your memories tonight. 896 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,120 Speaker 1: The money show business unusual. 897 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,200 Speaker 2: If you're any kind of leader, and if you have 898 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 2: a little bit of a track record in this or 899 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 2: you might be about to start this kind of project, 900 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,200 Speaker 2: you can imagine the situation where You're asked to take 901 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 2: over a team, and you can see this team has problems. 902 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 2: It hasn't been treated properly. People are not performing. You 903 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 2: have a company maybe that really needs real change, and 904 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 2: you almost don't know where to start, but you do 905 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,920 Speaker 2: know that you don't want to break the people involved. 906 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 2: And just think about the first meeting. Everyone's looking at 907 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,160 Speaker 2: you is you're going to fire me? You're going to 908 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,920 Speaker 2: fire me? What's going to happen? How am I going 909 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,320 Speaker 2: to tell my partner all of those things? Anyevan Biek 910 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 2: is a talent and culture strategist and yeah, good evening. 911 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,400 Speaker 2: I mean these are difficult moments. You know, everyone's looking 912 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 2: at you. You've got to get your tone right, You've 913 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 2: got to get what you're going to do right. Where 914 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 2: do you start here? 915 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,839 Speaker 8: I love Stephens, thank you for the invitation. Yeah, where 916 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,400 Speaker 8: do we start? I think the first thing is to 917 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,960 Speaker 8: realize that your job is not to rescue a rather 918 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,759 Speaker 8: one the leader to think about a reset. And when 919 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,279 Speaker 8: we think about a reset, it's resetting systems, re engaging 920 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 8: the team, and definitely rediscovering or reconnecting them to the 921 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 8: purpose of the team or the organization. And you were 922 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 8: spot on to say, it's all about the tone that 923 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,280 Speaker 8: human centered focused with a team, and it's not only 924 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 8: about focusing on the results. It's actually more how do 925 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,280 Speaker 8: you lead the team differently and set them up for success. 926 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 2: A lot of people can be quite scared of a 927 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,399 Speaker 2: new leader. They might not be honest with them. They 928 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,759 Speaker 2: think that a lot of changes coming. They're worried particularly 929 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,080 Speaker 2: for their jobs, for their roles, for their status. How 930 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,879 Speaker 2: do you manage that specifically? 931 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,919 Speaker 8: Yeah, So when we look at any human going through 932 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,520 Speaker 8: change and now in this example, introducing a new leader, 933 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 8: I think what the leaders need to be aware of 934 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,520 Speaker 8: is that there's something that we call a transcision curve, 935 00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 8: and the transition curve is almost expect a drop in morole, 936 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,759 Speaker 8: expect a drop in trust. So you need to be 937 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:10,440 Speaker 8: very mindful that when you go through change, when you communicate, 938 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,719 Speaker 8: there's never a thing like over communicating, So be very 939 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 8: mindful with your first interaction with a team to really 940 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,160 Speaker 8: make sure that you focus on each individual almost try 941 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,879 Speaker 8: to get a sense of who they are. But when 942 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,959 Speaker 8: just back to the communication message, be very clear, to 943 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,479 Speaker 8: be very detailed when you deliver messages in the first time, 944 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,160 Speaker 8: and then later on it might be more one on 945 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,440 Speaker 8: one and later when they in a different stage or phase, 946 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:46,480 Speaker 8: then you can be excited and selling all the positives. 947 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,480 Speaker 8: What I'm trying to illustrate he is when the leader 948 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,360 Speaker 8: is positive about the future and the aim and the 949 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,439 Speaker 8: goals for the team, the team might not be there yet, 950 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,120 Speaker 8: and you need to be mindful of where are they 951 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,239 Speaker 8: in that transition curve and meet them where they are. 952 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 8: So I think that's just the first point that I 953 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,279 Speaker 8: would like to illustrate, and then from there onwards, I 954 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,840 Speaker 8: think it's critical for you to focus on the strength 955 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,759 Speaker 8: of the team, especially if it's been a team that 956 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 8: has been inconsistent in the past. Perhaps you find that 957 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,640 Speaker 8: the energy in the team is quite low. I want 958 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,359 Speaker 8: the leaders to consider or how can they design an 959 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,759 Speaker 8: early win. What is that quick win that we can 960 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,920 Speaker 8: almost set up so that people can experience that small step, 961 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,440 Speaker 8: the small progress, and that's when we will start to 962 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:40,880 Speaker 8: see the shift. 963 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,359 Speaker 2: It must be tempting if you're the leader in that 964 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 2: position to sort of say in the first meeting, no 965 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,319 Speaker 2: one's going to lose their job. Now. When you do that, 966 00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:52,120 Speaker 2: I think I think a couple of things happened. The 967 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,480 Speaker 2: one is you don't know that as the leader. And 968 00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,600 Speaker 2: the second is no one believes you. Is that an 969 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:00,920 Speaker 2: unwe wise thing to do. 970 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,000 Speaker 8: Absolutely, And I'm so glad that you bring that up. 971 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 8: And especially when we're going through change, never promise something 972 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,200 Speaker 8: that you can't guarantee. I mean, I have been in 973 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,240 Speaker 8: that role working with leaders, and I remember so clearly 974 00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,239 Speaker 8: one of them said, don't worry, no one will lose 975 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,600 Speaker 8: their their their positions, and then six months later it 976 00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,319 Speaker 8: was a totally different playing field. So I always say 977 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,600 Speaker 8: for leaders, don't be mindful of telling the truth, and 978 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,560 Speaker 8: even the truth even if the truth is I'm not sure. 979 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,879 Speaker 8: I don't know, let's figure that out. But I think 980 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 8: it's in that moment a lot better to be vulnerable 981 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,560 Speaker 8: and even admit that you don't have all the answers 982 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,320 Speaker 8: than making promises that you can't keep. If we bold 983 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,960 Speaker 8: trust relationships, that is key. 984 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 2: So I know from what I can see, what people 985 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,399 Speaker 2: really want is a little bit of progress, and I've 986 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,480 Speaker 2: bought your point about a quick one was so important 987 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 2: to that, but they also need to have progressing going somewhere. 988 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,080 Speaker 2: How important is that direction? And often I think often 989 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,399 Speaker 2: if you go into a team that's not working. It's 990 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,239 Speaker 2: because they don't know. People don't feel a sense of 991 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,320 Speaker 2: which direction. I think you know, the Springboks before Russy 992 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 2: or Bafana before Hugo Bruce or just kaisachiefs. Anytime people 993 00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,640 Speaker 2: don't really know where they actually need to go. Now, 994 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,600 Speaker 2: how can you give a sense of direction? And I mean, 995 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,160 Speaker 2: I'm sure at some point because this is a conversation 996 00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,520 Speaker 2: about business and you're going to say you need to 997 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,959 Speaker 2: have clear goals and that shows you how important they are. 998 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,760 Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely so. I think if we look at the 999 00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:47,160 Speaker 8: definition of success, success is the progression of predetermined worthwhile 1000 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,240 Speaker 8: personal goals. Now, if we take this to a team, 1001 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,720 Speaker 8: I think it's important to involve the team in that 1002 00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 8: what does the future look like? But even as stay 1003 00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,680 Speaker 8: before you get to what does the future look like? Important, 1004 00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,600 Speaker 8: as you've mentioned, to highlight what's the end goal and 1005 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,800 Speaker 8: make that a compelling picture. I mean, if we have 1006 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,360 Speaker 8: a look at one of the basic needs of humans 1007 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,720 Speaker 8: is we want to make a meaningful contribution. We want 1008 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,919 Speaker 8: to feel as if we make a difference. And when 1009 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,400 Speaker 8: you paint that compelling picture and they start to see 1010 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 8: where they fit in how they can contribute, what might 1011 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 8: they be able to add to the team or perhaps 1012 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,680 Speaker 8: make suggestions or innovative ideas. That's where the magic wal 1013 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:36,520 Speaker 8: starts to happen. But it really starts by painting that picture, 1014 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 8: and then we break it down into small measurable winds. 1015 00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,880 Speaker 8: And I think that is the important part because once 1016 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,840 Speaker 8: you have that goal and you have something to measure, 1017 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,040 Speaker 8: that's how we can show progress. And if you can 1018 00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,520 Speaker 8: make that visible and if you can highlight the small 1019 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 8: winds consistently, we're setting ourselves up for success. 1020 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,720 Speaker 2: Pose when you come into a team like that, people 1021 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,680 Speaker 2: know it's not working. I mean they know that, and 1022 00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,400 Speaker 2: they probably know why their bosses changed, why you've been 1023 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,240 Speaker 2: brought in. Can you be upfront about that? 1024 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:15,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? 1025 00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,840 Speaker 8: Absolutely, I believe that in any environment and even so 1026 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,960 Speaker 8: in the corporate world as well, is to be transparent, 1027 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,840 Speaker 8: don't beat around the bush. But what you mentioned, Stephen 1028 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,240 Speaker 8: is so important because when you enter into that space, 1029 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,960 Speaker 8: I think one of the important things that you need 1030 00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 8: to be intentional about is to create an environment where 1031 00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,600 Speaker 8: people feel safe to speak up because, as you said, 1032 00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,400 Speaker 8: they have been working in the team, they might know 1033 00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,680 Speaker 8: what's not working or where can we change a process 1034 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,439 Speaker 8: or a system and that is what we want to hear. 1035 00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,600 Speaker 8: So if you can create an environment where people feel 1036 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,600 Speaker 8: safe enough to speak up, then a nice exercise to 1037 00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:01,280 Speaker 8: do is that simple, let's stop, start and continue. What 1038 01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,720 Speaker 8: should we start doing, what should we stop doing, what's 1039 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,840 Speaker 8: holding us back? And then what do we need to 1040 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,080 Speaker 8: continue doing? Perhaps some of the practices that has been working, 1041 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 8: But it really boils down to do you have the 1042 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,880 Speaker 8: ability to build psychological safety? And when we think of 1043 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,880 Speaker 8: psychological safety, there's two elements to it. On the one side, 1044 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:28,160 Speaker 8: it's creating mutual purpose, so once again that compelling picture 1045 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,520 Speaker 8: about the future. And the second one is mutual respect. 1046 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,760 Speaker 8: And I think, especially working with a team that has 1047 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,880 Speaker 8: missed deadlines, that have been inconsistent in their performance, I 1048 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,440 Speaker 8: think giving them respect even just for you know, the 1049 01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,520 Speaker 8: resilience that they've shown, or just giving them respect because 1050 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,240 Speaker 8: they are another human being. That's so important. But creating 1051 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,640 Speaker 8: psychological safety you will see as a leader, it will 1052 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:58,840 Speaker 8: support you into swapping the swapping the team around. 1053 01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, Really appreciate that. Such an 1054 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,880 Speaker 2: interesting conversation talent and culture specialists. 1055 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:10,240 Speaker 1: Tonight The Money Show with Stephen on seven O two 1056 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:11,240 Speaker 1: seven O two. 1057 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,360 Speaker 2: I just wanted to take a minute to note and 1058 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:20,840 Speaker 2: commemorate the demise that I think death of April fools 1059 01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,080 Speaker 2: stay jokes. There was a time when publications e WN 1060 01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,280 Speaker 2: used to do them, everybody used to do them. Some 1061 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,880 Speaker 2: of them were fantastic. Famously, the British Broadcasting Corporation had 1062 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,480 Speaker 2: a piece about pusta growing on trees in Italy which 1063 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,240 Speaker 2: people believed it was an April Fool's stay joke. There've 1064 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,320 Speaker 2: been many of many, many of them. The only one 1065 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,560 Speaker 2: I saw today was that Russia Rasmus was leaving the 1066 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,680 Speaker 2: spring Boks. And I mean my top line to that 1067 01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,120 Speaker 2: would have been celebrations in New Zealand. And when I 1068 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,560 Speaker 2: think about what is it that killed April fools stay jokes, 1069 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,040 Speaker 2: I don't think it's the media. I don't think it's 1070 01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:55,720 Speaker 2: a journalist and of a sense of humor. I don't 1071 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,200 Speaker 2: think society's lost its sense of humor. If you look 1072 01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,200 Speaker 2: at what people are talking about on social media, the memes, 1073 01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,240 Speaker 2: the comments, there's a massive sense of humor there. I 1074 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 2: think we're probably funnier now than we've ever been, if 1075 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,360 Speaker 2: only to stop us ups crying so much. I think 1076 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,240 Speaker 2: what it is is fake news. It's the fact that 1077 01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:17,040 Speaker 2: so many people lie. Media organizations I think correctly feel 1078 01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,840 Speaker 2: they can no longer be part of anything that's not true. 1079 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 2: They have to kind of fight for the truth all 1080 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,560 Speaker 2: the time, and that means that you just can't do 1081 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,000 Speaker 2: an April full stage joke. So there'll be lots of 1082 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,720 Speaker 2: people to blame for it. I can think of one 1083 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 2: in particular, but just a moment to commemorate what I 1084 01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,200 Speaker 2: think is the passing of the April full stage joke. 1085 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,120 Speaker 2: The Money Show Consumer Ninja, Wendy Nola, good to have 1086 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,680 Speaker 2: you back with us. Good evening in the National Consumer Tribunal. 1087 01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,760 Speaker 2: And I remember when this happened, confirming a settlement agreement 1088 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,000 Speaker 2: with the National Consumer Commission and car Track. Car Track 1089 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,800 Speaker 2: agreed to pay a final five million round, they had 1090 01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 2: to refund five point one million round to consumers that 1091 01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,400 Speaker 2: to cancel contracts with no cancelation fee, and they had 1092 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,240 Speaker 2: to change their terms and conditions. Now there was so 1093 01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,480 Speaker 2: little about what actually happened, and now Wendy, you had 1094 01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 2: to go and get it. What's the backstory on all 1095 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:10,160 Speaker 2: of this? 1096 01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,440 Speaker 11: Back Well, I only came across that story when I 1097 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:20,600 Speaker 11: got back from New Zealand, which was late Monday because 1098 01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,560 Speaker 11: I was down a rabbit hole and forcing myself to 1099 01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:26,680 Speaker 11: be off the grid. So then I started looking and 1100 01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,400 Speaker 11: I thought, you know, there was a lot in that, 1101 01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,120 Speaker 11: but not a lot of details. What terms and conditions 1102 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,520 Speaker 11: were amended, what, you know, how were they said to 1103 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:43,200 Speaker 11: be misleading people, et cetera. So the backstory is, over 1104 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,320 Speaker 11: a period of time and this was put out there, 1105 01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,080 Speaker 11: the National Consumer Commission received complaints from two hundred and 1106 01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:52,600 Speaker 11: ten consumers accusing card Track of abusing their rights and 1107 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,240 Speaker 11: in certain ways. The Commission then investigated them and found 1108 01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:00,720 Speaker 11: that some of the company's terms and conditions of the 1109 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,880 Speaker 11: sale agreement were inconsistent with the Consumer Protection Act. Cartrak 1110 01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,320 Speaker 11: agreed to settle the bulk of the complaints one hundred 1111 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,640 Speaker 11: and sixty seven out of those two hundred and ten 1112 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:15,440 Speaker 11: without admission of liability to avoid lend the legal proceedings apparently, 1113 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,640 Speaker 11: and they also agreed to enhance their terms and conditions. 1114 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,680 Speaker 11: I love that enhanced basically changed them, I mean them 1115 01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:27,760 Speaker 11: to remove any potential vagueness. And that's pretty much as 1116 01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,479 Speaker 11: much detail as we had. 1117 01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,200 Speaker 2: So what parts of the contract were then found to 1118 01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,800 Speaker 2: be problematic? Okay? 1119 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,520 Speaker 11: So Section thirty eight that they promoted or sold goods 1120 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,720 Speaker 11: or services by promising consumers a rebate or other benefit 1121 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,920 Speaker 11: that was contingent upon the consumer helping the supplier to 1122 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,280 Speaker 11: sell to other people or to benefit upon an event 1123 01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,680 Speaker 11: occurring after the consumer agrees to transact, and this conduct 1124 01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,440 Speaker 11: amounted to unfair marketing tactics. It's very clear, and the 1125 01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,400 Speaker 11: CPA you country that and actually wasn't aware that contract 1126 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:07,120 Speaker 11: was doing that until this settlement. Also section forty of 1127 01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,600 Speaker 11: the CPA, contract admitted to update the consumer's bill to 1128 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,160 Speaker 11: reflect the correct up to date status of the consumer's 1129 01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,360 Speaker 11: account after they've script a payment, and they said that 1130 01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:21,000 Speaker 11: was unconscionable conduct. Also section forty eight of the CPA, 1131 01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,760 Speaker 11: by making the consumer enter into an agreement on terms 1132 01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:28,920 Speaker 11: that were excessively one sided, involved misleading conduct and required 1133 01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,640 Speaker 11: the consumer to waive their rights. Very interesting one that 1134 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,600 Speaker 11: section twenty nine. During the marketing of services, they failed 1135 01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,000 Speaker 11: to disclose material terms and conditions of the agreement. 1136 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 2: Another big one and. 1137 01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:45,560 Speaker 11: Section fourteen finally, and that they failed to or refuse 1138 01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:50,040 Speaker 11: to cancel a contract without the charging of an excessive 1139 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:54,360 Speaker 11: cancelation penalty, and thus they were engaging in prohibited contact 1140 01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,840 Speaker 11: conduct rather which has the effect of denying consumers the 1141 01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,760 Speaker 11: right to cancel a fixed term contract before the end 1142 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,440 Speaker 11: of the term. 1143 01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 2: You have it, Yeah, it's quite a long list. I 1144 01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,200 Speaker 2: mean part of the material terms that were not disclosed. 1145 01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 2: So people were taking contracts out over the phone. What 1146 01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:12,840 Speaker 2: happened there? 1147 01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,200 Speaker 11: Okay? So I had the same thought, what were they 1148 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,240 Speaker 11: not disclose it? Because that's one of my key areas 1149 01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,200 Speaker 11: of interest is these telesales things that happen and they 1150 01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:25,680 Speaker 11: talk up the good stuff and are quite vague on 1151 01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,080 Speaker 11: the not so good stuff. So I asked the Consumer 1152 01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:33,280 Speaker 11: Tribunal for more info and I was told I'd have 1153 01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,600 Speaker 11: to fill out a Promotion of Access to Information Act form. 1154 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,800 Speaker 11: It's basically yeah, it was actually it's basically access to record. 1155 01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,200 Speaker 11: And once I splitted it, I got the full file, 1156 01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,840 Speaker 11: very very long file to ages to aid through it, 1157 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,120 Speaker 11: but I did get it. A huge portion of it 1158 01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,840 Speaker 11: was devoted to the case of a miss Redeemer and 1159 01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,720 Speaker 11: car Track's rejection of her claim on its one hundred 1160 01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,160 Speaker 11: and fifty thousand rand warrant in the case of non 1161 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:02,600 Speaker 11: recovery of a hijacked car. 1162 01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:03,959 Speaker 7: Now, the company has been. 1163 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:07,280 Speaker 11: Very big on marketing this if we don't for some reason, 1164 01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,200 Speaker 11: we can't recover your car. Will there's this up to 1165 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,560 Speaker 11: one hundred and fifty thousand RAND that you can get. 1166 01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,560 Speaker 11: And I get a lot of complaints from people. This 1167 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,560 Speaker 11: is the main cart track complaint. I get that they 1168 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,200 Speaker 11: that they were denied it because of terms of conditions. 1169 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:20,480 Speaker 2: Right. 1170 01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,760 Speaker 11: So, in May of twenty twenty to this MSS Rendeemer 1171 01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,720 Speaker 11: contracted with cart Track to put a tracking device a 1172 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,400 Speaker 11: new car and for tracking services. Exactly four months to 1173 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,160 Speaker 11: the day later, the vehicle, which her husband was driving 1174 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,600 Speaker 11: at the time, was hijacked. They took him to an 1175 01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,200 Speaker 11: unknown location and then they drove away with a vehicle 1176 01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,920 Speaker 11: which wasn't recovered. So she lodged a claim with car 1177 01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,880 Speaker 11: Track for that one hundred and fifty thousand RAN recovery 1178 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,040 Speaker 11: warranty and it was rejected on the grounds that she 1179 01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,680 Speaker 11: had defaulted on payments prior to the loss of the vehicle, 1180 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,040 Speaker 11: but she hadn't and she provided all the proof. And 1181 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,720 Speaker 11: then card Track shifted the reason for rejecting the claim 1182 01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:01,200 Speaker 11: to the fact that she didn't lodge claim within thirty 1183 01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,520 Speaker 11: days of the incident as required by the terms of 1184 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:07,760 Speaker 11: the contract. So and there was a whole long report 1185 01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:12,520 Speaker 11: by Commission investigator stating that the conditions these conditions were 1186 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,960 Speaker 11: not communicated to her during that telesales call country to 1187 01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,519 Speaker 11: what the CPA requires in such agreements, which is quite 1188 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,920 Speaker 11: interesting because that's what most teley sales calls are about. 1189 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,640 Speaker 11: They don't give all the nitty gritty, right, They just said, well, 1190 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,640 Speaker 11: it's in the terms and conditions, and they quotes in 1191 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,920 Speaker 11: section forty eight saying a supplier must not offer supply 1192 01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,880 Speaker 11: or into into an agreement to supply goods on terms 1193 01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,320 Speaker 11: that are unfair, unreasonable, or unjust. And I won't go 1194 01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:40,880 Speaker 11: to detail because we haven't got time, but basically saying 1195 01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:42,840 Speaker 11: it wasn't fair to say that she had just spit 1196 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,840 Speaker 11: the claim within thirty days because basically cart Track was 1197 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,559 Speaker 11: the one who was in control of you know, it 1198 01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,600 Speaker 11: wasn't the best decision to know when whether there was 1199 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,360 Speaker 11: a realistic prospective recovery or not, and when they decided 1200 01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,120 Speaker 11: it wasn't, then they should inform the consumer and that's 1201 01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,920 Speaker 11: when they should smit the claim. Anyway, but it went. 1202 01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so when we've got we've got ten seconds left, 1203 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,719 Speaker 2: but how many car? How many cart Track warranty claims 1204 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,120 Speaker 2: are actually paid out in the end. 1205 01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:16,920 Speaker 11: Okay, So this is a question I've been asking card 1206 01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:22,200 Speaker 11: Track for a while and they've said told me af 1207 01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:27,519 Speaker 11: the NCC invests. The NCC investigator obviously was told, but 1208 01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,639 Speaker 11: does not reveal it in his report. He says this 1209 01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,760 Speaker 11: cart Track that indeed paper said warranty to some of 1210 01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,400 Speaker 11: its clients who lost their vehicles that were fitted by 1211 01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:38,280 Speaker 11: the tracking device. I requested the stats regarding to the 1212 01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,880 Speaker 11: number of cars stolen during twenty twenty one and twenty 1213 01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,800 Speaker 11: twenty two and how many of those one hundred and 1214 01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,360 Speaker 11: fifty parts were made, and then obviously got the figure 1215 01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:50,479 Speaker 11: and concluded that it's always in the best interest for 1216 01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,840 Speaker 11: car Track to find fault in their clients in order 1217 01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,960 Speaker 11: not to pay the warranty. So I'm particularly delighted that 1218 01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,320 Speaker 11: there's finally been some regulatory oversight on car tracks warranty, 1219 01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,599 Speaker 11: given how much they punted and their warranty, and given 1220 01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,759 Speaker 11: how many people come to me and say they didn't 1221 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,800 Speaker 11: get it. So that's the good news out of that, 1222 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,920 Speaker 11: and hopefully their terms and conditions well, they have to 1223 01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:10,679 Speaker 11: improve as a result of the settlement. 1224 01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,120 Speaker 2: Wendy Nola really appreciate that you can sum a ninja. 1225 01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,439 Speaker 2: Thank you. The Money Show shape shift is twenty six 1226 01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,600 Speaker 2: minutes now to seven the time. When you think of 1227 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,160 Speaker 2: industries that are changing at the moment in lots of 1228 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,439 Speaker 2: different ways, the car industry is absolutely one of those. 1229 01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:27,720 Speaker 2: I mean, think of things that are happening. So you've 1230 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,439 Speaker 2: got the move from kind of fossil fuel petrol diesel, 1231 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,400 Speaker 2: to electric, through hybrid, through I don't know, hydrogen. Someone 1232 01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:38,040 Speaker 2: tells me, you've also got the idea that software is 1233 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,600 Speaker 2: kind of defining the car. You've got other ideas. So 1234 01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,519 Speaker 2: you heard on Friday the idea of a fractional ownership 1235 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,759 Speaker 2: of a car. I mean I grew up and still 1236 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,960 Speaker 2: kind of live by a model where you buy a 1237 01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,439 Speaker 2: car for yourself, one for your partner. You have a 1238 01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,759 Speaker 2: car each. When the kids get old enough, you managed 1239 01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,439 Speaker 2: to share or you find another one or something. But 1240 01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,200 Speaker 2: you don't share aercar with someone else. But that's what's 1241 01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,360 Speaker 2: beginning to happen. And someone at the center of all 1242 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,800 Speaker 2: of that is Grant Block. He's the managing director of 1243 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:12,120 Speaker 2: Volvoca South Africa. He's also been involved in the Volvo's 1244 01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 2: International financing division. In fact, in Sweden, he's with me now. 1245 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,679 Speaker 2: Grant a good evening and I might be the last 1246 01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:20,320 Speaker 2: person to say this, but welcome back home. 1247 01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,920 Speaker 12: Thank you Stephen. It's good to be here tonight, and 1248 01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:24,679 Speaker 12: good evening to all your listeners. 1249 01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:27,280 Speaker 2: I do want to to start a little bit about 1250 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,680 Speaker 2: you because you worked in finance first. Before that, you 1251 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,600 Speaker 2: were I think UK's ed En. Yeah. Are you a 1252 01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,519 Speaker 2: Durbin boy? Did you grow supporting the show? More of 1253 01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:36,519 Speaker 2: a Midlands boy? Hey? 1254 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,280 Speaker 12: So went to Peter Merrisburg, finished the University of Peter Merrisburg, 1255 01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:43,280 Speaker 12: spent one year at UCT and finished up in Maritzburg 1256 01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,479 Speaker 12: and then sort of did the trek from PMB through 1257 01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:48,719 Speaker 12: the Midlands back to joe Burg to start my career 1258 01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:49,639 Speaker 12: at Standard Bank. 1259 01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:51,800 Speaker 2: And you were in finance for quite a while you 1260 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,040 Speaker 2: were in London, you worked at Troders, which is a 1261 01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,920 Speaker 2: big sort of investment hals places like that. Yeah. I 1262 01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 2: think I kind of fell into finance. 1263 01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:02,240 Speaker 12: I think most people fall in to finance and started 1264 01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,800 Speaker 12: out in banking, and then in two thousand and six 1265 01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,800 Speaker 12: my wife and I emigrated to the UK as many 1266 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,599 Speaker 12: many people do, and I was lucky enough to start 1267 01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,800 Speaker 12: at Schroders and Schroders as well and you know, at 1268 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,599 Speaker 12: that stage was one of the worlds or what are 1269 01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 12: the Europe's or the UK at least as large as. 1270 01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:18,879 Speaker 2: Listed asset managers. 1271 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,519 Speaker 12: And it was a phenomenal grounding in understanding how the 1272 01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,120 Speaker 12: markets work. Because I started there in two thousand and six. 1273 01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,680 Speaker 12: It was two years before the credit nah, so I 1274 01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,800 Speaker 12: literally was starting my career and sort of looking up 1275 01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,280 Speaker 12: and learning about how the capital markets work, learning how 1276 01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:39,599 Speaker 12: funds work, fund management, asset management, portfolio construction. And I 1277 01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:42,800 Speaker 12: was doing a professional qualification at the same time. And 1278 01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 12: lo and behold September two thousand and eight, Lehman Brothers falls, 1279 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,360 Speaker 12: and you know, you're sitting in your office in Gresham 1280 01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,880 Speaker 12: Street in London and just probably I don't know, it's 1281 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:55,920 Speaker 12: not even a kilometer away, just Nears and Paul's. They're 1282 01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:57,880 Speaker 12: people packing up and walking out in the fall and 1283 01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,880 Speaker 12: Lemen Brothers. And then you know, during that time, it's 1284 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:03,880 Speaker 12: sort of the fallout. You know, you've got this this 1285 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,679 Speaker 12: news story that arrives and in the financial markets, because 1286 01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:10,280 Speaker 12: it's not tangible, you suddenly starting to Okay, well what 1287 01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:12,719 Speaker 12: was it? And then you figure out it to credit 1288 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:14,479 Speaker 12: the fault swap. And then first you got to understand 1289 01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,240 Speaker 12: what a credit the fault swap. I mean even now 1290 01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,120 Speaker 12: I'm still not sure. It's been explained to me a 1291 01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,960 Speaker 12: million times, but there are times that you just don't know. 1292 01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:23,000 Speaker 12: And then and then you're starting to Then in the 1293 01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:27,959 Speaker 12: asset management world, really it's so responsive to the financial 1294 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,760 Speaker 12: markets because you know, the fees are generally charged on 1295 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,559 Speaker 12: the amount of money and assets under management. So when 1296 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,799 Speaker 12: the market's fall, the revenue falls in an asset management company, 1297 01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,200 Speaker 12: and of course the markets fell a lot in two 1298 01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,639 Speaker 12: thousand and eight, so the revenue of those those companies fell. 1299 01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,840 Speaker 12: And then also it was the trust element around for 1300 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,720 Speaker 12: your customers, so you know, it was really a baptism 1301 01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,200 Speaker 12: of fire. But also you know, I developed a deep 1302 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,439 Speaker 12: fascination of how the markets work and the asset management 1303 01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:57,599 Speaker 12: industry in general, but it was a more general grounding 1304 01:13:58,000 --> 01:13:59,880 Speaker 12: in understanding business and trust. 1305 01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,320 Speaker 2: You know, that for me was the thing. So so 1306 01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,720 Speaker 2: you do that, and then you end up working for 1307 01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 2: Volvo and you were basically, as I understand it, running 1308 01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,679 Speaker 2: their sort of international finances or the financing of cars. 1309 01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:12,719 Speaker 2: What role were you playing. 1310 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,519 Speaker 12: Yeah, so you know, fast forward about ten years and 1311 01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,920 Speaker 12: I spent you know, nine years in South Africa building 1312 01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:24,280 Speaker 12: a financial technology business. And after that business was sold, 1313 01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:25,800 Speaker 12: I received allowed to. 1314 01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:29,599 Speaker 2: Tell us Whattron it was yeah, it was art best. Yeah. 1315 01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:33,680 Speaker 12: So that business was sold to Alex Forbes, a phenomenal 1316 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,080 Speaker 12: so proud of that business anyway. And after that business 1317 01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:41,120 Speaker 12: was sold, I received a what can only be described 1318 01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,559 Speaker 12: as a once in a lifetime never to be repeated 1319 01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,679 Speaker 12: offer to suddenly go and join Volvo Cars in Sweden 1320 01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,479 Speaker 12: in the finance industry, you know. And so my family 1321 01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:53,960 Speaker 12: and I, after the sale of the business, packed up 1322 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,479 Speaker 12: our bags and you know, I think the deal closed 1323 01:14:57,479 --> 01:14:59,719 Speaker 12: on the first of February twenty twenty four, and fifteen 1324 01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:03,040 Speaker 12: days later I walked into an office in Stockholm, completely 1325 01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:08,280 Speaker 12: none the wiser and started out and my role was 1326 01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:12,599 Speaker 12: basically to help them develop their internal operating lease business 1327 01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,479 Speaker 12: they had run it a sort of a very very 1328 01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,599 Speaker 12: very clever operating lease business, and look after help look 1329 01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:18,720 Speaker 12: after the financial. 1330 01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:20,960 Speaker 2: Services aspects of Volvo Cars globally. 1331 01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,640 Speaker 12: And that role quickly morphed into something that was you know, 1332 01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:28,720 Speaker 12: much more I mean dramatic in a way, and with 1333 01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:31,599 Speaker 12: a very short order of time. I was looking after 1334 01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:35,720 Speaker 12: global financial services at Volvo Cars. And that was a 1335 01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:37,519 Speaker 12: you know, at the same time, getting the family to 1336 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,280 Speaker 12: adjust to Sweden, getting the kids into school. 1337 01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,280 Speaker 2: You can't think of a different, more different climate. Eh Yeah. 1338 01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,759 Speaker 12: I like to say that I changed everything. I changed 1339 01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,240 Speaker 12: my geography, my industry, my language, my country. I literally 1340 01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,880 Speaker 12: changed my entire life in the spirit of fifteen days. 1341 01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,080 Speaker 12: And I didn't stop to think about it. But you know, 1342 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,040 Speaker 12: it's amazing how resilient people can be. And I think, 1343 01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:04,000 Speaker 12: you know, moving the family over there, it gave me 1344 01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:08,120 Speaker 12: an opportunity to watch my children develop and grow some 1345 01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:08,519 Speaker 12: sort of. 1346 01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:10,320 Speaker 2: Resilience and also for myself as well. 1347 01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:11,800 Speaker 12: I mean, I didn't know that I could do it, 1348 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,640 Speaker 12: and I think what it taught me was, you know, 1349 01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:19,320 Speaker 12: I changed those industries, but the fundamentals of business remain, 1350 01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,519 Speaker 12: and the cornerstone of most of that is actually just trust. 1351 01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:25,120 Speaker 2: And I was put into. 1352 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:29,680 Speaker 12: Some situations where and you know that I had to 1353 01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:33,639 Speaker 12: go and literally negotiate on behalf of Volver Cars globally 1354 01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:38,360 Speaker 12: on some very interesting transactions, and I think the way 1355 01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:41,080 Speaker 12: that they worked out was just just the idea that 1356 01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,439 Speaker 12: and it almost goes back to what your earlier callers said, 1357 01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,280 Speaker 12: is you know, say what you mean and make sure 1358 01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,320 Speaker 12: that you don't overpromise and just be as ethical and 1359 01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,360 Speaker 12: as honest as possible. And that's seen me through a 1360 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,360 Speaker 12: lot of my life. 1361 01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:57,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting how often I still see people who 1362 01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,560 Speaker 2: are successful in this society despite all of the obstacles 1363 01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,280 Speaker 2: in front of them, and it's often because they've been honest, 1364 01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:06,080 Speaker 2: and people appoint them to jobs because of that, you know, 1365 01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,599 Speaker 2: because they've been honest when other people around them haven't been. 1366 01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:11,479 Speaker 2: You can sort of see, oh, this person's going to 1367 01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,120 Speaker 2: go far because actually they can stay honest and sometimes 1368 01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:17,840 Speaker 2: it can be a hard thing. So you're doing this 1369 01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:23,360 Speaker 2: kind of very financial job running Volvo Cars South Africa, 1370 01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,960 Speaker 2: obviously heavily financial, but I kind of see it as 1371 01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:29,120 Speaker 2: a slightly different roles, very different. Yeah. 1372 01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:34,839 Speaker 12: So about June twenty twenty five, I got made another 1373 01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:39,320 Speaker 12: never to be repeated once in a lifetime offer and 1374 01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,880 Speaker 12: the net result was that we emigrated from Sweden to 1375 01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:47,000 Speaker 12: Stockholm in twenty twenty four, and then we emigrated from Stockholm. 1376 01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,599 Speaker 12: So we emigrated from Centurion to Stockholm in twenty twenty four, 1377 01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,000 Speaker 12: and then we emigrated from Stockholm to Centurion all the 1378 01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,240 Speaker 12: way back again. Just you know, sixteen months later, so 1379 01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:00,439 Speaker 12: it was quite a crazy, crazy journey. And then up 1380 01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:04,360 Speaker 12: in Volvercars South Africa and the way that they work 1381 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:08,960 Speaker 12: in terms of a local OEM importer is effectively it's 1382 01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:13,280 Speaker 12: a wholly owned company of Volvocar globally and it's responsible 1383 01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,120 Speaker 12: for the importation of Volvo cars in South Africa and 1384 01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,760 Speaker 12: the managing of the dealer network and the marketing and 1385 01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:23,680 Speaker 12: of course the products and the pricing. So again it 1386 01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:26,719 Speaker 12: goes back to the fundamentals of business. It's partly trust, 1387 01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:29,960 Speaker 12: but also the relationship of the functions of marketing, the 1388 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:34,160 Speaker 12: functions of operations, the functions of product and pricing. All 1389 01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:37,160 Speaker 12: of those things actually hang together in the same way, 1390 01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,200 Speaker 12: shape and form. And I think that's been the biggest 1391 01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,519 Speaker 12: lesson over the past four years is you know, you 1392 01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,000 Speaker 12: can change someone's entire industry, but as long as they 1393 01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:48,640 Speaker 12: understand the fundamentals of how the various functions of a. 1394 01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,679 Speaker 2: Business work together, they work like leavers. 1395 01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:53,559 Speaker 12: And if you understand them and you do it in 1396 01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:57,240 Speaker 12: a trustworthy and ethical way most of the time, hopefully 1397 01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:58,639 Speaker 12: probably going to be okay. 1398 01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:04,000 Speaker 2: I mean I always found honest it's just simpler, you know. 1399 01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,160 Speaker 2: I always think of people in line and think you 1400 01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:09,800 Speaker 2: must be quite clever and how you remember all that? Yeah, okay, 1401 01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:13,519 Speaker 2: so Volvo in South Africa. Now, I made the point 1402 01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,360 Speaker 2: at the start that the car industry is going through 1403 01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,080 Speaker 2: several changes, quite a few big changes, more than many 1404 01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:21,599 Speaker 2: other industries. Actually, how do you see that for Volvo 1405 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,080 Speaker 2: in South Africa specifically, because I mean five ten years ago, 1406 01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:27,559 Speaker 2: almost all of your cars, certainly ten years ago, would 1407 01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:31,920 Speaker 2: have been petrol or diesel and they were kind of, 1408 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,599 Speaker 2: let me use a few non scientific words, are kind 1409 01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:40,160 Speaker 2: of fancy, bit expensive, maybe very nice. Wouldn't mind driving 1410 01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,120 Speaker 2: my children around them. Maybe my friends who had did 1411 01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,400 Speaker 2: the comms instead of journalism would have one, and in 1412 01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,160 Speaker 2: fact one did my brother who did law too. But 1413 01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,679 Speaker 2: now I see Volver more as one of the companies 1414 01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:55,800 Speaker 2: that's doing things almost before other people aren't, particularly with 1415 01:19:55,880 --> 01:20:00,479 Speaker 2: electric cars in a market which hasn't quite embraced that yet. No, 1416 01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,200 Speaker 2: and I think there's still a long way to go. 1417 01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:05,719 Speaker 12: But I think, just going back to Volva, I think 1418 01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:10,000 Speaker 12: you know, in global context, Volva is not a large 1419 01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:14,240 Speaker 12: global manufacturer. It's fairly boutique in the way that it operates, 1420 01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,280 Speaker 12: and it's still predominantly and at the heart of it, 1421 01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:20,839 Speaker 12: it is a Swedish company, The management team is Swedish, 1422 01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:24,800 Speaker 12: the product design is engineered in Sweden. It's all mostly 1423 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:30,080 Speaker 12: actually Swedish cars. And what has happened though in that 1424 01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:33,640 Speaker 12: sort of nature is really going back to some of 1425 01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:38,120 Speaker 12: the ethos of it's almost around sustainability. So there is 1426 01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,960 Speaker 12: there is a picture around elect the value of electrification, 1427 01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,839 Speaker 12: but it also stems back into a feeling of global 1428 01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,760 Speaker 12: responsibility that is very I mean, you know, when I 1429 01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,519 Speaker 12: spent two years in Sweden, it you know, we can 1430 01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,080 Speaker 12: talk about it in a sort of an almost a 1431 01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:59,880 Speaker 12: e ferial sort of way, but in reality, at the Stockholm, 1432 01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:03,400 Speaker 12: at the Gothenburg headquarters of Volver Cars, it's actually embedded 1433 01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,400 Speaker 12: in the culture along with safety. And so what they 1434 01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:09,320 Speaker 12: did was they didn't have the opportunity in the early 1435 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:14,559 Speaker 12: days to engineer all powertrains diesels and petrols and electric 1436 01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,120 Speaker 12: cars in the same way. They had to take a chance, 1437 01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,360 Speaker 12: and that chance was electrification. So they started a while ago. 1438 01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:25,080 Speaker 12: The first ever plug in hybrid that the mass market 1439 01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:27,200 Speaker 12: one that I can think of at the moment, was 1440 01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:31,280 Speaker 12: the XC ninety, the true plug in HYBRIDXCT ninety launched 1441 01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,679 Speaker 12: in twenty fourteen, I think it is in South Africa 1442 01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,880 Speaker 12: and globally. And then they really went on a strong 1443 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,960 Speaker 12: drive to continue that process in dropping the diesels in 1444 01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:42,920 Speaker 12: twenty nineteen in South Africa. Whilst it was a major 1445 01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:46,000 Speaker 12: hit to the sales numbers of Volvo cars, in reality 1446 01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:50,960 Speaker 12: the mindset was more twenty years in the future. And 1447 01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,280 Speaker 12: I think now it's only really now that after all 1448 01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,320 Speaker 12: of those years of engineering that you're starting to see 1449 01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,640 Speaker 12: the true result of the products coming through. And so 1450 01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,240 Speaker 12: the product range at the moment is sort of evolving. 1451 01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:08,280 Speaker 12: The maturity of evs if you think about it, they 1452 01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:12,400 Speaker 12: started on relatively low ranges. They were quite inefficient, you know, 1453 01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:17,200 Speaker 12: the software was difficult to operate. Sometimes that is maturing 1454 01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:19,720 Speaker 12: at such a rapid rate it's unbelievable. 1455 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:24,200 Speaker 2: And it's not just Volvo, no, it's I mean, we're 1456 01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:26,800 Speaker 2: going to see a lot more BYD electric cars. Oh 1457 01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:28,760 Speaker 2: you know, I see them on the roads now. I 1458 01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:30,479 Speaker 2: didn't see them a year ago. But this is the 1459 01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:33,639 Speaker 2: exciting thing about South Africa, right. So if you looked 1460 01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:35,000 Speaker 2: at the total market. 1461 01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,760 Speaker 12: Share of EV's in South Africa, it's almost ignorable, very 1462 01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:40,920 Speaker 12: very small. But I think what people are missing is 1463 01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,960 Speaker 12: the rate of change. And the rate of change is 1464 01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:46,400 Speaker 12: not just being driven by consumer behavior. I mean the 1465 01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:49,439 Speaker 12: fuel prices at the moment or causing interest, maybe not 1466 01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:52,720 Speaker 12: necessarily switching yet, but certainly the rate of change is 1467 01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,560 Speaker 12: being driven also by the manufacturers. 1468 01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,120 Speaker 2: If you looked at the number of models that are coming. 1469 01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,960 Speaker 12: To South Africa that are full ev though that number 1470 01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:04,600 Speaker 12: is significant, and that marketing budget and that product experiences, 1471 01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:06,880 Speaker 12: and then you see you one driving around the road 1472 01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:09,479 Speaker 12: around you where you live. Suddenly you think about it, 1473 01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:11,920 Speaker 12: and that I think will increase the rate of change 1474 01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,160 Speaker 12: of ev adoption. And the problem is is that, well, 1475 01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:17,120 Speaker 12: the benefit is I think it'll happen sooner than people think. 1476 01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,719 Speaker 2: So, I mean, I tend to agree with you only 1477 01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,200 Speaker 2: because it's going to be cheaper at first only for 1478 01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,200 Speaker 2: people with solar installations, which is quite a few people 1479 01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:29,879 Speaker 2: in some parts of the country and certainly in suburban areas. 1480 01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:31,920 Speaker 2: But people who rely on ESKIM is probably still going 1481 01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:34,639 Speaker 2: to be quite quite an expensive thing for the moment 1482 01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,200 Speaker 2: at least. The other issue, of course, is long distance. 1483 01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:40,360 Speaker 2: Now I probably shouldn't tell you this, but my family 1484 01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:44,599 Speaker 2: likes camping, and I'm not convinced that the electric car 1485 01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,799 Speaker 2: is such a good idea for going, you know, hundreds 1486 01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,280 Speaker 2: of k's away with the trailer and bicycle. I think 1487 01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,080 Speaker 2: I can change your mind right now. I'm going to 1488 01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:57,120 Speaker 2: change your mind right now. I'm not going to accept 1489 01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:59,000 Speaker 2: a free v for right. No, no, no, no, no no no. 1490 01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:02,360 Speaker 12: But I so one of the things that electric vehicles 1491 01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:04,760 Speaker 12: now offer a lot of them often is what's called 1492 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:08,439 Speaker 12: vehicle to load. So you go, you camp and then 1493 01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:11,400 Speaker 12: you plug your car, You plug all your appliances into 1494 01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:15,479 Speaker 12: your car. So that's I mean, that's a tiny little feature. 1495 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:17,800 Speaker 12: But I want to get back to almost the daily use. 1496 01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,280 Speaker 12: And I think, what's really I mean, I drive an 1497 01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:23,400 Speaker 12: EV every day, and I mean I don't necessarily use 1498 01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,439 Speaker 12: the solo so much. What I do is I charge overnight, 1499 01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:30,280 Speaker 12: and I charge overnight on the lower tariffs that ESCOM offers. 1500 01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,680 Speaker 12: And so if you're only doing sixty kilometers a day 1501 01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:37,160 Speaker 12: or seventy kilometers a day of daily traffic, a daily traveling, 1502 01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:39,360 Speaker 12: you get home at night, you plug in your electric car. 1503 01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:41,679 Speaker 12: You don't even have to have a fancy wall box. 1504 01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:43,680 Speaker 12: You can get a temporary charger that charges the car 1505 01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:46,880 Speaker 12: to kilowatts and then the next day all of your 1506 01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:50,280 Speaker 12: range and more is replenished. And if you just continue 1507 01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:54,160 Speaker 12: to do that, you're the way that you utilize your 1508 01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:57,559 Speaker 12: time changes. And that's the important bit and the other thing. 1509 01:24:57,640 --> 01:24:59,160 Speaker 12: And it's a small thing, and I know it's a 1510 01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:01,639 Speaker 12: small thing, but I really this is a personal thing 1511 01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,760 Speaker 12: because every time I leave the house early in the 1512 01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:06,400 Speaker 12: morning to catch a flight or something like that, and 1513 01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,280 Speaker 12: I get into the electric car, it doesn't make a sound, 1514 01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:12,960 Speaker 12: it doesn't disturb anyone, and I think those kind of so, 1515 01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:15,920 Speaker 12: I mean, it's a very soft social benefit, but in 1516 01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,280 Speaker 12: my view that when you couple with the charging is 1517 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:20,320 Speaker 12: sort of becoming more and more. 1518 01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:23,439 Speaker 2: More and more accepted. And that I think. 1519 01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:26,320 Speaker 12: The last thing is when I joined in August last year, 1520 01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,479 Speaker 12: I needed to prove to myself now I'm not gonna 1521 01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:33,200 Speaker 12: be the ambassador for Volvo EV's in South Africa. So 1522 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,080 Speaker 12: what I did was I got one of Volvo's EV's 1523 01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:38,840 Speaker 12: and I drove it all over South Africa. I did 1524 01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,280 Speaker 12: over seven and a half thousand kilometers joe Berg to 1525 01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,559 Speaker 12: kase it N, kase it N, through Bloemfonteine, Colesberg, craft 1526 01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:48,320 Speaker 12: Rennett Pe then all the way up to Cape Town, 1527 01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:50,400 Speaker 12: then back through the Eastern Cape, back to Casa it 1528 01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,479 Speaker 12: N then joe Burg and not once did I have 1529 01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:56,280 Speaker 12: an issue where I ran out of charge. 1530 01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:00,439 Speaker 2: Okay, so that the problem that I think people might 1531 01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,800 Speaker 2: see is that yes, I might be able to find electricity, 1532 01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,880 Speaker 2: but no one wants to be stuck at Three Sisters 1533 01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,720 Speaker 2: in the middle of the karoo because there is a 1534 01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:11,320 Speaker 2: petrol station there, or there was the last time I checked, 1535 01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:12,720 Speaker 2: and you could fill up in ten minutes and be 1536 01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,840 Speaker 2: on your way. I doubt they have a fast charger, 1537 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:18,720 Speaker 2: which means that if you need to charge that you're 1538 01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:23,639 Speaker 2: going to wait anw and it's hot Three Sisters. 1539 01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:27,360 Speaker 12: But I think you're you're you know, the technology at 1540 01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:29,800 Speaker 12: the moment is such that when you when you plan 1541 01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:32,120 Speaker 12: a journey in an EV. Now, yeah, and I don't 1542 01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:34,479 Speaker 12: know if people know this, but what the evs do 1543 01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:36,400 Speaker 12: is they actually go through. 1544 01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,679 Speaker 2: And plan your route through the charging stops. 1545 01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:42,920 Speaker 12: And it's becoming even checked whether the charging stops are 1546 01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,200 Speaker 12: online or not, or whether they were active and last used. 1547 01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:48,040 Speaker 12: So now you're starting to have the journeys planned for 1548 01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:49,920 Speaker 12: you and the charging on the long stops. I mean, 1549 01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:52,759 Speaker 12: I'm driving tomorrow, actually all the way to the Eastern 1550 01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:55,760 Speaker 12: Cape on an EV So if you see me, please wave. 1551 01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:00,040 Speaker 12: Hopefully I won't Hopefully I'll get there easily enough, but 1552 01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:00,960 Speaker 12: I'm pretty confident. 1553 01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:03,880 Speaker 2: We're speaking to Grant Locke. He's the managing director of 1554 01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,800 Speaker 2: Volvo Cars South Africa's your shape Shifter tonight on The 1555 01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,480 Speaker 2: Money Show. It's nine minute state. 1556 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:10,880 Speaker 1: The Money Show. 1557 01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:14,320 Speaker 10: Stephen Krutez is brought to you by Absence Sponsorships, the 1558 01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:18,479 Speaker 10: proud sponsor of the Absurd kape Epic, celebrating twenty years 1559 01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:22,440 Speaker 10: of taking it to the trails apps as a registersp. 1560 01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:27,760 Speaker 2: The Money Show Shape Shifters. We're speaking to Gary Locke tonight, 1561 01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,680 Speaker 2: the managing director of Volvo Car South Africa. Gary, you 1562 01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:33,280 Speaker 2: you mentioned something as we were going to the break 1563 01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:35,439 Speaker 2: which I thought was very interesting about how the car 1564 01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:39,000 Speaker 2: will plan your route for you through charging stations. Now, 1565 01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,360 Speaker 2: all of my life when I bought a car and 1566 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:46,800 Speaker 2: my father who is real petrol heading and before me 1567 01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:49,880 Speaker 2: you talk, the things you would think about would be 1568 01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:52,320 Speaker 2: the model that we'd probably start with, the make, then 1569 01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:54,760 Speaker 2: the model and then the engine size and then how 1570 01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:58,840 Speaker 2: many gears and then automatic or whatever are we going 1571 01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:01,240 Speaker 2: to move to an era. Do you think where one 1572 01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,720 Speaker 2: of the big factors we'll consider is the software. How 1573 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:06,920 Speaker 2: old is the software? How obatable is it which car 1574 01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,360 Speaker 2: maker has the best software rather than which car maker 1575 01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:14,880 Speaker 2: makes the best engine. Yes, in a way, I'm scared 1576 01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:15,559 Speaker 2: now in a way. 1577 01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,719 Speaker 12: In a way, but I think I think we still 1578 01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,240 Speaker 12: got the fun part of looking at the size of 1579 01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:23,800 Speaker 12: the battery and the power output of the car as well, 1580 01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,559 Speaker 12: So we've still got all of those things that we 1581 01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:27,800 Speaker 12: all used to love as petrol heads as well. 1582 01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:29,800 Speaker 2: But I think what's happening. 1583 01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,240 Speaker 12: I think the benefits of having a vehicle defined by 1584 01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:37,200 Speaker 12: software is that it can continuously be updated and fixed. 1585 01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:40,439 Speaker 12: And I think that's really the that's really the tough 1586 01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,640 Speaker 12: part that all and I believe this, but all OEMs 1587 01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:45,160 Speaker 12: will start to get to a point where they will 1588 01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,040 Speaker 12: start to create software defined vehicles. And it's very difficult 1589 01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:52,879 Speaker 12: for a manufacturer to do this. It's not necessarily always 1590 01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,759 Speaker 12: in their DNA. They have to shift a big portion 1591 01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,880 Speaker 12: of how they build products, design and think about these things. 1592 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,320 Speaker 12: But the benefits of having a software defined vehicle are 1593 01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,120 Speaker 12: all of a sudden You can start to learn from 1594 01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:09,040 Speaker 12: traffic accidents or other sorts of aspects on the road 1595 01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:11,960 Speaker 12: environment that the car can now become aware of, take 1596 01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,559 Speaker 12: that context and provide you more safe inputs to your driving. 1597 01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:19,720 Speaker 12: It's a key input into learning about autonomous driving. So 1598 01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:23,720 Speaker 12: software defined vehicles are absolutely critical, but it's not necessarily 1599 01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,360 Speaker 12: It's got a very well defined purpose in safety, almost 1600 01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:29,200 Speaker 12: more than anything else in my view. 1601 01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:31,080 Speaker 2: So long as you don't ever need to press control 1602 01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:35,040 Speaker 2: often delete at the center. Mister wi Fi at Desmond 1603 01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:37,960 Speaker 2: as message saying Stephen, please ask your guest why all 1604 01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:40,920 Speaker 2: the hype around the Vulva ES ninety with twin motors 1605 01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:44,000 Speaker 2: and all wheel drive, and then Volvo released the EES 1606 01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:46,439 Speaker 2: ninety with only a single engine and a single motor 1607 01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:48,160 Speaker 2: I presume, and no all wheel drive. 1608 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,880 Speaker 12: That's just the model we've brought into the country in 1609 01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:53,080 Speaker 12: the launch model, but of course in the future we 1610 01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,960 Speaker 12: will aim to bring in the twin engines and the 1611 01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:59,799 Speaker 12: oil drive platform. I think the single motor extended ranges 1612 01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:03,960 Speaker 12: of the S ninety give a phenomenal range of about 1613 01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:07,439 Speaker 12: seven hundred and fifty kilometers sure, and that for us 1614 01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:10,240 Speaker 12: an electric charge, yeah, that was really the main point 1615 01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:12,400 Speaker 12: for us. But of course there's nothing stopping us from 1616 01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:15,400 Speaker 12: bringing the twin engines in the future. At the moment, 1617 01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,400 Speaker 12: we've got the sister of that cars, the Ex ninety, 1618 01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:20,519 Speaker 12: which is the biggest SCUV, is the seven CED suv 1619 01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:26,240 Speaker 12: that comes in a twin engine out the box available 1620 01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,680 Speaker 12: to customers today. And I think if you looked at 1621 01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,680 Speaker 12: the model ranges across, just to take a point, for 1622 01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:35,040 Speaker 12: all electric cars, you're looking at single motors and twin 1623 01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:38,600 Speaker 12: motors and sometimes three motors. Plus the size of the 1624 01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,400 Speaker 12: battery will give you an idea of the amount of 1625 01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:46,360 Speaker 12: power that that car can put down and it's significant. 1626 01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:48,920 Speaker 2: One of the things that I think you're going to face, 1627 01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,000 Speaker 2: as I see it as Volvo, is that South Africa 1628 01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:55,639 Speaker 2: is a very price conscious market, very especially at the moment. 1629 01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:58,800 Speaker 2: There are a lot, I'm sure you know this, lots 1630 01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,160 Speaker 2: of cars that are cheaper than you, and there will 1631 01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,400 Speaker 2: only be more of them, and there will be electric, 1632 01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:06,720 Speaker 2: they'll have great ranges, they'll have updated Wi Fi this, 1633 01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:09,880 Speaker 2: they'll have things I can't even begin to understand. How 1634 01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:12,479 Speaker 2: are you going to stand out in that market because 1635 01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:18,000 Speaker 2: we all know how big China's sort of China's car 1636 01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:20,559 Speaker 2: complex is at the moment, and that's because your cars 1637 01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:23,360 Speaker 2: are made there too, he says very quietly, but how 1638 01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:25,599 Speaker 2: do you stand out at a time when there's going 1639 01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:27,280 Speaker 2: to be huge competition in price. 1640 01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:32,840 Speaker 12: That's a very good point, and I think that in 1641 01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:37,559 Speaker 12: my case, it's a relatively simple differentiate, and that really 1642 01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:42,200 Speaker 12: is safety. It really is the DNA Evolva and the 1643 01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,519 Speaker 12: cars we produce and sell all over the world are 1644 01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:47,000 Speaker 12: the same cars that are tested to euro and Global 1645 01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:51,360 Speaker 12: cap safety standards. In fact, Volvo's got its own safety standard, 1646 01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:55,559 Speaker 12: so it has got an incredible focus on safety is 1647 01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:58,840 Speaker 12: the core ethos of the entire brand, and I think 1648 01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:02,960 Speaker 12: that safety should provide a level of differentiation that's still 1649 01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:06,479 Speaker 12: important in the market, and I think you'll see it 1650 01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,559 Speaker 12: as the results of standardized testing start to become more 1651 01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:13,160 Speaker 12: well known amongst consumers, that they'll start to better understand 1652 01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:16,280 Speaker 12: how that impacts their buying choices. That's really why I 1653 01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:20,160 Speaker 12: think Folver stands out globally from that perspective. The second 1654 01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:25,320 Speaker 12: element is that we're actually also owned by gili and 1655 01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:27,320 Speaker 12: I think one of the key elements that was announced 1656 01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:30,600 Speaker 12: in the strategy update was that we all start to 1657 01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:33,559 Speaker 12: partner with Gilie and we have before on some of 1658 01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:36,240 Speaker 12: the product development and benefit from the scale that it 1659 01:32:36,479 --> 01:32:38,840 Speaker 12: that it brings, and I think that is a key 1660 01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:39,920 Speaker 12: element for us. 1661 01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:43,919 Speaker 2: I think we actually have one or two other questions 1662 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,639 Speaker 2: coming through this evening on voice notes tonight on those 1663 01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:49,400 Speaker 2: seven two seven two one seven o two past seven 1664 01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:50,720 Speaker 2: o two. My name is Nick. 1665 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:57,800 Speaker 6: I recently had an unfortunate incident with mar Volvo and 1666 01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:01,960 Speaker 6: the person that called me while I was on waiting 1667 01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:06,479 Speaker 6: for some assistance was actually Grant Luck and all I 1668 01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:10,360 Speaker 6: can say is a while he was very empathetic and 1669 01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:15,080 Speaker 6: sympathetic with my situation, and the customer service I've received 1670 01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:21,280 Speaker 6: has basically made me a customer for life. They arranged 1671 01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:25,400 Speaker 6: me a good SICA and I'm actually still driving it 1672 01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,640 Speaker 6: while the insurance is busy finalizing my claim. 1673 01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:33,960 Speaker 2: So well done to Volvo, Well done to Grant Grant. 1674 01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,120 Speaker 2: We get messages about corporates all the time, very few 1675 01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,760 Speaker 2: of them are that positive. I have to say, I 1676 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:40,840 Speaker 2: know exactly who that is. 1677 01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:42,360 Speaker 6: You know. 1678 01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:46,080 Speaker 12: One of the benefits of being a small brand is 1679 01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:49,880 Speaker 12: that I can get involved at the customer level, and 1680 01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:54,240 Speaker 12: especially when something like that happens to that customer, I think, 1681 01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:56,519 Speaker 12: at the end of the day, and I promise you 1682 01:33:56,560 --> 01:33:58,800 Speaker 12: it's not just Volva Fuel. You'll find that a lot 1683 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:02,280 Speaker 12: of people just care and they try. Grant Locke, thanks 1684 01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,719 Speaker 12: so much for coming in. Really appreciate the time. Managing 1685 01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:08,320 Speaker 12: Director of Volvo Cars of South Africa. 1686 01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,559 Speaker 10: The Money Show, Stephen Rutez is brought to you by 1687 01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:15,360 Speaker 10: Absence Sponsorships, the proud sponsor of the absurd kpe Epic, 1688 01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:19,160 Speaker 10: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails. Apps 1689 01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:20,280 Speaker 10: are registered FSP. 1690 01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:23,599 Speaker 2: US market is still positive tonight ahead of the big 1691 01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,719 Speaker 2: address by the US President Donald Trump three o'clock our time. 1692 01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:29,760 Speaker 2: We don't know if he is going to announce an 1693 01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:31,800 Speaker 2: end to the conflict or not, or whether it will 1694 01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:33,760 Speaker 2: infact in the conflict in the Middle East of the 1695 01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,360 Speaker 2: Dow Jones up point nine, the scent the Nastic up 1696 01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:38,880 Speaker 2: one point seventy s and P five hundred up one 1697 01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:40,639 Speaker 2: point eight Back tomorrow, Good evening. 1698 01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:40,840 Speaker 9: Eight