1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Seven o two. What'sap us on seven to two seven 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: oh two one seven o two. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 2: Sex ninety three ride here on weekend breakfast. My name 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: is Kumazomdisa. I'm in for guzumum this morning with you 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 2: until ten a m. So how much do you know 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: about pangolins? It's an odd animal. We generally don't hear 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: much about panglins unless you're in the nature space like 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: am here in the studio. But generally people don't really 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 2: even learn much about panglins in school. You hardly ever 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: hear about them. I mean, it wasn't an animal mentioned 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: much when I was in school, well a few years ago. 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: And what over the last couple of days, it's been 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: Panglin Day a few days ago, and there's been a 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 2: focus on the trafficking of pangolins in our country. And 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: of course for that conversation I'm looking forward to. That 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: is our residence CSI Nature and I want to get 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: this right because I always get the word conservationist wrong. 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: Nature conservationist to Mary, here's a studio the sporting Thank 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: you so much chat for coming in morning. 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: Did I get it right? 21 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? This is a bit loud and light years. Yeah, 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 3: you did. I think some people say it's a conversationalist. Well, 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 3: we do a lot of talking about nature conservation and 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: about a sort of bidiversity and whatever, and I'm not 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 3: so sure we achieve much more than talking. But I 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,279 Speaker 3: was just listening before we go. It's a slight, slight 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 3: sidetrack your guest that you just had in now. It's 28 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 3: actually quite interesting. I have prostrate cancer and it's managed, 29 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 3: and I do a lot of talks on prostrate cancer. 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 3: I started writing something called The Prostrate Diaries because there's 31 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 3: just so little knowledge, you know, and everybody kind of 32 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: brushes you off. And it's so interesting when you do 33 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 3: a talk and you look up when you walk into 34 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 3: the room. Thirty forty people plus doesn't matter. Eighty percent 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 3: of that audience is female. Even with can see you 36 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 3: guys don't have this. You don't have one. It's because 37 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 3: they want to know how to deal with their husband's 38 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 3: boyfriends or whatever who have got the disease. Okay, And 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: that's the interesting part. Men tend to take head put 40 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: in sand and it's going to go away. No, it's not. 41 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: You know, medical issues don't disappear quietly. But anyway, back 42 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: to our panglins. Panglins today your artie chokes on legs. 43 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 3: That's how I was told one day. The pangulin looks 44 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: like lovely little creatures, the most incredible little animals. And 45 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 3: the first time I met one was in Pilunsberg National Park. 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: Pangy had been collected and pangy had been found in 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: the boot of a car. So we fitted it with 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 3: a little tracking device which looks like a looks like 49 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 3: one of these sort of computer mouse mouse with a 50 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: little on the top, and there was radio control. Pangy 51 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: went off and unfortunately pangolin passed away, and we then 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: put it in the deep freeze so that people could 53 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: come along, the researchers could get samples and whatever. So 54 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: that pangolin, because regardless, you don't discard there's always scientific 55 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 3: issues you can do with it. And we must have 56 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: looked in there about I don't know six months later 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: in the deep freeze, and we noticed that the pangolin 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: had moved. It was no longer a panglin in the bag. 59 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 3: There was just simply a whole pilot grass had been 60 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 3: put in in panglin's place, and we started to realize that, 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: hang on, this is a little bit more than normal, 62 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 3: and it was around the fact that pangolin had now 63 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 3: been taken off for his scales and what have you. 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: You can go back in time. I can't remember which 65 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 3: of the royal the monarchs had been presented. I think 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: it was one of the Georgia's had been presented King George. Yes, yeah, yes, 67 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: and one of them he'd been presented with a panglin jacket. 68 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: And you know, so it's been around for years. And 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: obviously you've got the trade, the medicinal trade, okay, and 70 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 3: that's an issue, but the issue is completely it's just 71 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: this total annihilation of the most incredible little animal. And 72 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: I've met them on swallow Kalahari up in the Kalahari 73 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: where you see the little pangy and then the lines 74 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 3: come along and the little panglin rolls itself into all 75 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: and they kind of use it like a soccer ball, 76 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: you know, and pangys ain't not coming out to come 77 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 3: and deal with this problem. That was such incredible little animals, 78 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: and they've got the cuter little faces and they just 79 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 3: go about their business looking for particular ants and all 80 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: that they're eating. 81 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: I was about to say that their business is to 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: nibble on all their insects. 83 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: Then business is to nibble on a particular type of termite. 84 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 3: And you know, so therein lies another problem. You can't 85 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: pick up panglin and pop in the grounds a lot 86 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: of animals. When people say, well you just release them 87 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 3: after being repaired, well you can't because you've got to 88 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: make sure that they're food and they fussy eaters, they 89 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 3: particular eaters. So you can't just go along and take 90 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: a pangolin and just pop it into the middle of 91 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 3: the landscape. And of course in Johannesburg we've got doctor 92 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 3: corn Lawrence and Karen Is she's incredible and she's got 93 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 3: a love for pangolins somewhere along the line, and I'm 94 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: not too sure. Maybe this morning we'll discover why the 95 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 3: pangolin But they deal in them continuously, and it's the 96 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 3: ones that have been confiscated in roadblocks and through information 97 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 3: to know where where the poaches have got them hidden, etc. 98 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 3: Because like rhino, it's big money, yep. And you know, 99 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 3: it's like anything like this, it's all big money. And 100 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 3: your hats off to people like this that actually do 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: the work. And of course you'll see that when you 102 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: look on there. No pangolins are kept on site. They 103 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 3: hide them away because it's something you could get hijacked for. 104 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: Nobody's going to tell you. If somebody will say, where 105 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 3: do we release panglins, don't know, I'm not gonna tell you, Okay. 106 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: So you know, it's one of those things you don't 107 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 3: want it to go out because you just don't trust anybody. 108 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 3: You don't trust the fact that some wise poach is 109 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 3: going to come along and know how to hack in 110 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: and get hold of the telemetry equipment and go directly 111 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 3: and capture the poor little guy again. And no, you know, 112 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: you go to some places like Vietnam, we have pangolin soup, yes, 113 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 3: and you have a complete baby panglin floating your soup. 114 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 3: Poss Well. 115 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: Doctor Karen Lawrence, the co director and senior VETT at 116 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: the Jerburg Wildlife Vet Hospital, is joining us on the 117 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 2: line and she's with us this morning, doctor Carr, and 118 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 2: good morning. 119 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: Good morning, morning guys, good morning listeners. 120 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for cheating in and thank you 121 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: for your time. I suppose you know that question doctor 122 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: around the love for pangulins. I found it interesting that 123 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: you know you've You've embarked this project right as the 124 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: Joeberg Wildlife vet in the preservation of pangolins. And I 125 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: was wondering where this you know, project comes from and 126 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: where it emanates from, particularly because I haven't seen a 127 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: lot of pangolins in Joebert. I don't even know we 128 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: have that many. 129 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 4: We don't have banglins in Joeberg. 130 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: But the trade about a decade ago, the trade started 131 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: off mostly. 132 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 4: In hunting because people, the traders or the approaches, brought 133 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: the animals to hunting because thinking, you know, this is 134 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 4: the economic hub. I can make a lot of money here. 135 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 4: And someone gave me a banglum about a decade ago and. 136 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: Said, oh, I hear, you must fix this, And I. 137 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,559 Speaker 4: Was okay, Which is up? Which is down? 138 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: Where do you put the drip? 139 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 4: Where? 140 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: How? Because it's not something we learn at Onner support 141 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: Brittany's science because it's not something that's. 142 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 4: Common, Like you said, nobody in half of people don't. 143 00:07:58,600 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: Even know what it is. 144 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 4: They think it to an amadillo, and it's not in 145 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 4: a common wild animal that people like breed with like rhinos, 146 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 4: that you know, BET's learn about it. So and we 147 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 4: had no information about them, especially this particular species chemics 148 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 4: to Tangland. 149 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: There are a few places in Africa that's worked with them, 150 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: but no proper vetni anything. So for me it became 151 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: a I had to find out how, what and why 152 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: and where in first ninety five million years ago they 153 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: split from cats. So we thought, okay, when we let's 154 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: start using drugs that are a fine for cats. And 155 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: then I did he mentioned that Tim you mentioned Toilu. 156 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: I went to do my master's degree in Toilu. 157 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 4: And it was on the blood values of Banglin. So 158 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 4: like when you when you go to a vetting hospital 159 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 4: and you take a dog in and they take blood, 160 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 4: they stick it them in a machine or with dog. 161 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: Values on it. 162 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 4: So now we have Banglin values because of the study 163 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 4: I did. It was published as well. 164 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: So now when we treat them, we actually know. 165 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 4: What is wrong and what is better or worse when 166 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 4: we do blood tests. 167 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: And it just became a complete passion. And we've had 168 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: about two hundred and fifteen now at the hospital since 169 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: we opened in twenty seventeen, and it feels like I 170 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: learned something from every single time we get a bang unit. 171 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: That's one of your big challenges though, because wildlife and 172 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: doesn't matter what it is. You can't just say, well, 173 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 3: it's a dog or a cat and we will treat 174 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 3: it accordingly. We can't give it that dosage. You don't. 175 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: It must be held. You can't decide, hang on, I've 176 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 3: got to anethetize this animal. How am I going to 177 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 3: do it? You know, your chance of killing the animal 178 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,479 Speaker 3: not unintentionally trying to do good must be tremendous. 179 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: Indeed it is. In the beginning, we thought, okay cats, 180 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: because most cat drugs. 181 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 4: You can give the dogs and button up the other 182 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 4: way around. And for my study my masters, I had 183 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 4: to find out what the size as the red blood 184 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 4: cell is because that is what the machine uses to 185 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 4: do all the other bits of white cells and all 186 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 4: those things. 187 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: And we all thought, yeah, it's going to be cat, 188 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: but it's not. It's close to bovine. So the size 189 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: of the eight cells almost cells are out of a cow. 190 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: So again completely does different directions. So but most of 191 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: the drugs to use. Luckily friend of mine also does it. 192 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 4: Now her name is to adopted debby English from Provid Wildlife. 193 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 4: So we're the only sort of two specialist ragmuine vets 194 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 4: in South Africa. These I have someone now to bounce 195 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: ideas off. But every time we give a new drug, 196 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 4: it's listeningly, you cross your fingers and you go, please 197 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 4: don't die because you don't have absolutely. 198 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: No idea what's going to happen. 199 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 4: Luckily we haven't lost any animals because of this. 200 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: But yes, it's quite scary because it's a very endangered 201 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: species and you're responsible for it, and really you don't 202 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: want to do any more harm than anything else with robots. 203 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: In fact, as you say, pangolins and don't occur in Johannesburg, 204 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 3: where do they occur in South Africa in a natural way? 205 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: And I'm talking of a broad region. 206 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: They oc current all our bordering all our provinces that 207 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: border all our neighbors. So the ones there are in 208 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: the Northwest, Norman Cape, Nampopo, Pumalanga, all the ones that 209 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: border Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia. 210 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 3: You're pangulins. Where in fact, when they you say two 211 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 3: hundred and fifteen of these little fellows, where did they 212 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: come from? Normally when and I'm assuming when they get 213 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 3: you they're not in great condition, no, in horrible condition. 214 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: In the beginning, most of them came. 215 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 4: We still think that most of the panglins come into 216 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 4: South Africa. They are from across the border. It's not 217 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 4: all Africans, it's mostly foreign nationals that bring them into 218 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 4: South Africa. 219 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: And we've seen the trade drop. 220 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 4: In halting quite a bit because we've pushed a lot 221 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 4: for the for the court cases and where both myself 222 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 4: and my partner are expert witnesses or subject matter experts, 223 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 4: and we've pushed the sentencing in halting over ten years, 224 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 4: so it's not a lot. The biggest sentence so far 225 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 4: as twelve, which makes it that you have to sit 226 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 4: at least two thirds of the sentence when it's over 227 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 4: ten years. And suddenly the whole thing. Confiscations have dropped 228 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 4: dramatically because people know now that they're can be caught here. 229 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 4: So now it's in Mumpopo mostly and suddenly we've found them. 230 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 4: They don't even occur there, but they found them in 231 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 4: roadblocks and staying operations as a free state and also 232 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 4: the wasting state, So the trade moves to where they 233 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 4: think it's face to sell them. 234 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: I supposely that speaks to the importance of having these 235 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: operations in the form of those roadblocks and the policing it. 236 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: Talked to us about this app that you've launched, because 237 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: I found that to be rather interesting and this is 238 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: all part of the preservation of these our scaly friends 239 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: of panglin. 240 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 4: Yes, it's a fun way to educate people. So most 241 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 4: people have never seen one. Most people will never see one. 242 00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: And also, how can. 243 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: You really want to say something if you don't even 244 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 4: know they exist. So what we did we partnered with 245 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 4: habitat x Ara and their team, the phenomenal apps that 246 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 4: you have no idea how they do this, this virtual 247 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 4: reality and augmented reality thing, but we had all the 248 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 4: inputs of giving them videos and photos and things to 249 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: make sure that the pangon that they're using is correct. 250 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: But the panglan's name is Kanis and so free app. 251 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 4: You can get it from Google or Apple and you 252 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 4: talked to her in real time, so you actually ask 253 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 4: her questions and she answered it immediately and anything from 254 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 4: how long do they live? Do they swim? 255 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: One of the people said to me. 256 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 4: They said to her, she's pretty, and she said, thank you. 257 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: You know, and she also speaks. 258 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 4: All eleven South African languages, which makes this even better. 259 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 4: So and again, every single person, even the guy begging 260 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 4: on the side of the road, has a smartphone. These 261 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 4: apps are free, so for us it's it's a it's 262 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 4: an education tool, especially for people who can't go to 263 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 4: a reserve, who can't pain enough money to go see 264 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 4: a tagline. Now you sort of you project the tangline. 265 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: It's an a it's a meted reality in your room 266 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 4: and you actually speak to her while she's lying on 267 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 4: your bed. 268 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: It's mind blowing. 269 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 4: I don't know how these people do it, h having 270 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 4: an xrus haabuiness, but I think it's it's phenomenal. 271 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 3: I've just got a mental picture of a panglin sitting 272 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 3: with a smartphone going, I just need to know more 273 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: information about a human. You know, reverse of the situation has. 274 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 4: Got to be healthy, deal with human. 275 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, right, So it's dropped down in Johannesburg, it's 276 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: written in a few other places, et cetera. How do 277 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 3: you go about approaching this besides the app? And how 278 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 3: do you get this app? I'm assuming the app would 279 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: be wonderful if you could get it into schools. 280 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: Yes, that is only on phase one now, but there's 281 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: a phase two as well, and the whole idea is 282 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: to get more interactive and more make the pamegula look 283 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: even more realistic. 284 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 4: Or have a walk across the room, you know, so 285 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 4: in the school type of environment. And so the whole 286 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 4: idea is education. It's it's all to do with that. 287 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 4: And habitatics are is very they see things like we do. 288 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 4: They have the same ethics. And they have a project 289 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 4: called Future Zoo where zoos will become virtual reality. So 290 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: you actually put something on your head and you walk 291 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 4: around and you touch a rhino or you touch the 292 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: tangline and you talk to them, or you see them 293 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 4: and you. 294 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: Can even smell them, but they're not in the cage 295 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: and no one suffers. So this is that the idea 296 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: one in the future, which I think is phenomenal. 297 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was about to say, I mean because generally 298 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: I don't even think I've seen a panglin at a zoo, 299 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: you know, in an actual zoo. 300 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: You don't know. Our bangline species don't do well in 301 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: the zoo. They die easily to the white bellied and 302 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: black bellied are kept in zoos, but the mortality rate 303 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: is insane. And again for me, everybody wants to ask me, 304 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: why did you put them in a zoo? But no, 305 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: why not? Why can't we just protect them and protect 306 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: their environments and protect. 307 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: Everything around them and fight legally for them, because then 308 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 4: it's a whole full circle instead of taking the easy 309 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 4: way out and shoving everything into a zoo, because that's 310 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 4: always people's questions, you know, and it doesn't really help 311 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 4: make a difference. I have one baby every year, so 312 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 4: it's almost impossible to breathe bangling and captivity. 313 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: Well, it is impossible, and then things that that's how 314 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: you're going to save them from extinction? Doctor? 315 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: Do we know how the poaching of pangolins is actually 316 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: carried out? You know, in terms of rhino and the life. 317 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: There's also, you know, almost been an understanding of how 318 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: the poaching happens, a study of how the poaches go 319 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: about doing the poaching. Are we at that place now 320 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: with the panglins? You know, I think it's great that 321 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: we are having roadblocks and we know where to find 322 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: the pochase, but just their modus has that been studied 323 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: study yet? 324 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: It has so much easier to poach. 325 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 4: A banglaine than the liner. For example, you basically walk 326 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 4: up to them and stick them in your backpack and 327 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 4: walk away. You know, most of them are either put 328 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 4: some plastic bags or Hessian bags or in a brooch 329 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 4: of a car, especially made things in the trunk of 330 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 4: a car. 331 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: It's and then it's for us. 332 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 4: I know it's difficult to find, but if you if 333 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 4: you go to people where they live in the wild 334 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 4: or near a game reserve, they know where the secretary 335 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 4: bird breeds. They know where this type of animal lives, 336 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 4: and they're so used to the bangline. And you give 337 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 4: them what three hundred round and safety, find me your tangling. 338 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 4: It's more money than they've seen in the entire lives, 339 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 4: and then they will go find you one. 340 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 3: Do you see? I think? And that's where it comes 341 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 3: in as well, because in the vast number of species 342 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: have got other species that work together with them. So 343 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 3: while the panglin is busy snaffling in his ants, he's 344 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 3: disturbing the landscape. And you'll start having certain bird species 345 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 3: as indicators. So it's very easy to see, Okay, we've 346 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: got that. 347 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, if you know what you're looking for, it's amazing. 348 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: I've been with a tracker once in Talou When I 349 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: see nothing, and you can say, oh, this is a 350 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: Panglin tract. 351 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 4: This is where they go, this is where they go. 352 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 4: You know, they see completely different things that when we 353 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 4: normal people do. 354 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: And of course he's the defensive situations to roll into 355 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: a little ball. So you just walk up waivers stick 356 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 3: at them and they got sold on. Let me just 357 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 3: may round myself and wall I can't see you, you 358 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 3: can't see me. 359 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: You know, need any special equipment, there's our guns involved. 360 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: I think there's a wonderful way of using your app 361 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 3: and that's why I'm going to be quite keen to downloaded. 362 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 3: For example, this week we're doing some workshops with traditional 363 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: healers up in Quasiliuna Townel. Yeah, this is a wonderful 364 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: way of actually opening this. It's putting the app on 365 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 3: and actually showing it to them so that we now 366 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: start to share that out and through the people. Like 367 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 3: cases in wildlife have community conservation officers and they work 368 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 3: with kids in the schools, et cetera. So there's a 369 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 3: huge wave of just quietly introducing this without without waving 370 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: a stick, and that's the most I agree. 371 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: It's a it's a cultural thing, and it's mostly. 372 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 4: Because of traditional Chinese medicine, so that bean traditional heals 373 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 4: or not the problem. 374 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: You know, our traditional healers in the past used to 375 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: have a pangmine scheme. 376 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 4: For ten years. You know, it was everybody blamed the 377 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 4: traditional healers, but it's our actual for African traditional healers, don't. 378 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 4: They're mortified when they hear these animals or being approached 379 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 4: because it's part of a it's a lot of a 380 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 4: a m weird animal. And lots of the African cultures, 381 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: the vendor culture, you know, and many cultures believe that 382 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 4: if you kill a banglin will have drops for seven years. 383 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 4: So it is. 384 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: It is, it's a revered species. So and again, unfortunately 385 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: some people now it's now commodity. It's not actually part 386 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: of their culture. They don't care about the culture. So 387 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: I think the use like again, when people. 388 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 4: Use traditional Chinese medicine, it's older people in older generations, 389 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 4: and like in South Africa, all older generations are never 390 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 4: going to change, it feels to me. 391 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: But the news is the future. 392 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 4: If we can change their minds and how they see animals, 393 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 4: then they will protect them. And that's why it's so 394 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 4: important to have this appum, especially if you can have 395 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 4: it in your own language. 396 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's amazing, the fact that it's you know, 397 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: available and accessible in oil. 398 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: We taser in Afrikaans. She speaks very good Afrikaans. I 399 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: bring the money is Zulu. She's spoken to you Zulu, 400 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: and Zulu is perfect. You know, I can't speaking of 401 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: your other languages that I'm sure. 402 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 4: They would too. 403 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: What's going to take, according to you, doctor, to preserve 404 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 2: pangolin lives? 405 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: The biggest thing is to stop the demand, because that 406 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: is the problem. It's not just necessarily the poach and 407 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: you can catch as all the poaches you want, because 408 00:20:58,359 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: as long as there. 409 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 4: Is demand for it, it won't stop. So that is 410 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 4: again where education and the youth comes in. 411 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: You're going to have to change how people see. 412 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 4: Pagners, that they're not medicine, that they are not a 413 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 4: dati medicacy. And that is not going to happen overnight. 414 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 4: But I think if if everybody does something, you tell 415 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 4: your friend, and the friend tells a friend, and the 416 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 4: friend tells another friend, eventually I think will make enough 417 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 4: difference to take sure that the animal doesn't go extinct 418 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 4: in the next ten years. 419 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and interesting enough, most the stick doesn't work waving 420 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: a stick and shouting and runting and raving. And what 421 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 3: we find with medicinal plants is you've got to give 422 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 3: an alternative. Okay, once you can start to give an 423 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 3: alternative to poaching and start teaching people to grow their 424 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 3: own or whatever it is. But it doesn't matter what 425 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 3: it is, rhino poaching, there's going to be another poacher 426 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: coming along. There a lot of unemployed people and a 427 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 3: lot of poor people. 428 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: And that's the strange thing here. It's not poor people. 429 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: All the sting operations people them and stuff like that. 430 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: So it's it's poverty. It is poverty. Is you'll sure 431 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: you'll when. 432 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 4: You have you're poor, you'll you'll just trade it for 433 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 4: for a bread. 434 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: You won't wait until. 435 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 4: You've negotiated a million round price for the animal. 436 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's not necessarily poverty related. It 437 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: is a commodity completely, like like guns and drugs. It's 438 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: a complete it's organized crime. 439 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 4: And unfortunately that is that is the problem. 440 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: And do we know that or do you know if 441 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 2: the pangulins are being you know, processed in South Africa, 442 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: so once they're caught captured, are they being you know, 443 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: almost you know, processed for these quote unquote medicinal purposes 444 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: in the country or are they shipped off somewhere where 445 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: you know the processing happens. 446 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: I am not are that that, I am not sure. 447 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: I think some of them are processed, but a lot 448 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: of them are. The biggest export out of Africa is Nigeria, 449 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: the port of Nigeria, so they go from here often 450 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: or are used by the local communities, the Asian communities 451 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: for whoever, whatever they is, and they use or they're 452 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: purchased here and then they are sink to Nigeria which 453 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: then send them to mainland China and Vietnam. 454 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. You normally have a look and you see when 455 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 3: they do a capture in Vietnam, et cetera. It'll be 456 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 3: so many rhino horns, so many bags. 457 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: Bags, yeah, son, So it's all it's all stockpiled and 458 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: then sold in batches. And unfortunately, corruption in Africa is 459 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: a huge thing, so that's why it happens. 460 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: Like that's sadly all right, well, doctor Current. It just 461 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: remind us of the name of the app. I've been 462 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: getting some WhatsApps people wanting to know where they find 463 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 2: the app, what it's called. So they can test a. 464 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: Wild Voices pangulent and it is on the Apple Store 465 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: or a Apple store. 466 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 4: And also the Google play Store. 467 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: I'd love to see I'd love to see people testing 468 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: it in their own languages. 469 00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 3: I think that's really cool. 470 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: Please, that was so awesome. I think this is a. 471 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 4: Close thing ever, and I mean I work with things 472 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 4: that are alive, so for me to see it, I 473 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 4: was like like a little child with a. 474 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: Christmas great time, my choice. 475 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 3: All right. 476 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 2: That's doctor Karen Lawrence and she's the co director and 477 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: senior vet at the Joeburg or at Jannisburg Wildlife a 478 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: vet and thank you so much for your time. 479 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for. 480 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: The work that you're doing. It's really important work and 481 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 2: we hope that our children will still have panglins around 482 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: to see, you know, and they'll be preserved in a 483 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 2: way that allows us all to experience and enjoy them. 484 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: Thanks y'all. That's my wish too, and thank you for 485 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: having me. 486 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: All right. That's doctor Karen Lawrence there from the Wildlife 487 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 2: Vet Hospital. Interesting conversation, Tim. 488 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I enjoy these characters and of course so having 489 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 3: met quite a few of them, and one of them 490 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 3: we were filming lions, and I don't know why. We 491 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: poked my nose under a bush on slow and there 492 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 3: was a penguin peacefully snoozing away while everything was carrying 493 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 3: on around him. You know, he was sort of okay, right, well, 494 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: we'll stick around here line and wait and see where 495 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: he comes out. 496 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think if I've ever spotted one in 497 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: the wild. And I mean, of course I haven't spent 498 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 2: half as much time as you have in the wild, 499 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: but I suppose maybe they may have rolled up real 500 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 2: quick when I was driving near them. 501 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 3: I think you'll find that eighty percent plus of game 502 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: ranges and or have never ever seen a penguin. You know, 503 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 3: it's purely accidental that we've met them. We've never set 504 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: out to go and find one, et cetera. Well, whoops, Look, 505 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: it's like reptiles, you know, when people say, oh, I'm 506 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 3: about to be attacked by a puffat or something. When 507 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 3: last did you see one in the bush? 508 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 4: No? 509 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 3: Okay, right, well my point exactly. You know, you see 510 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 3: them crossing the road and that sort of thing. But yeah, 511 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 3: otherwise you're walking along and they escape. Wildlife doesn't like us, yeah, thankfully, fortunately, 512 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 3: you know, and for the most we're not really edible. 513 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, not very delicious. 514 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 3: Nah, we've got buckles and shoes. 515 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 2: Tim dry Is are a resident a CSI and nature conservationist, conservationist, 516 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: and here's a studio thirst this morning. Thank you so much. 517 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: It's such a pleasure and I love having you here. Well, 518 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: I love coming to the show, particularly because I look 519 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 2: forward to the coffee when you come. 520 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I thought. Coffee first. 521 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 2: We appreciate it, and thank you so much. He's back 522 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: on the show next week talking about all things nature. 523 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: That was an informative conversation for you and I opening one, 524 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 2: and I think it's one of those that need to 525 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 2: be shared widely to the people around you, know around you, 526 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: for the purposes of education. It is seven o'clock.