WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Divorce: How to avoid high costs. Can you do it yourself?  

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<v Speaker 1>In a moment, we're going to be talking about divorce

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<v Speaker 1>and how you can keep the costs down when you're

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<v Speaker 1>going through a divorce or contemplating a divorce, ADMIN can

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<v Speaker 1>be very costly. It's something that not many of us

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<v Speaker 1>factor into a wedding or a breakup, or a birth

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<v Speaker 1>or applying for a passport. There are always ADMIN costs

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<v Speaker 1>associated and sometimes that at those costs are hidden expenses

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<v Speaker 1>which you don't know about. If you've got a question

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<v Speaker 1>on the hidden costs or the unhidden costs of divorce,

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<v Speaker 1>you're welcome to give us a call now and oh

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<v Speaker 1>to one four four six oh five six seven, because

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to be talking to attorney Rene Miller, owner

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<v Speaker 1>of our Miller Attorneys, about the associated costs of divorce. Renee,

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<v Speaker 1>good morning, thanks for joining us on this Sunday morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>How expensive is it to get divorced?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think ultimately they seen so hugely dependent on

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<v Speaker 2>the proceedings in that being either whether it's contested or

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<v Speaker 2>uncontested divorce, meaning if it's uncontested, ideally both parties are

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<v Speaker 2>in agreement with the divorce and everything becomes a lot simpler.

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<v Speaker 2>It could ultimately estimate if you're working with an attorney

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<v Speaker 2>at a fee of about fifteen thousand rand as opposed

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<v Speaker 2>to a contested divorce where the parties are at loggerheads

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<v Speaker 2>and not necessarily in agreement with various items, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>a back and forth in exchange of correspondence around various

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<v Speaker 2>issues of dispute, and it estimates it about between thirty

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<v Speaker 2>thousand rand to one hundred and fifty thousand Rand. So

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<v Speaker 2>the costs can escalate quite quickly as legal fees can

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<v Speaker 2>become quite expensive.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that is expensive. I mean I knew that. I

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<v Speaker 1>know that admin fees and processing fees and all that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing can add up. When when you're starting

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<v Speaker 1>to get up to the number of one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand, that is a lot of money for a.

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<v Speaker 2>Breakup one hundred percent. And so it does rest on

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<v Speaker 2>the complexity of the divorce proceedings, as ultimately a divorce

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<v Speaker 2>could last between two or three years, you know that's contested,

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<v Speaker 2>just depending on how quickly parties really want to come

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<v Speaker 2>to terms and reach some type of settlement that usually

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<v Speaker 2>would narrow down the costs. But if parties continue to

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<v Speaker 2>see themselves in dispute and we've got to go to

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<v Speaker 2>trial on various aspects, then the costs do escalate.

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<v Speaker 1>Renee. What's the first thing somebody should do if their

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<v Speaker 1>partner files for divorce, Well, the first.

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<v Speaker 2>Thing is please never ignore when receiving a divorce summons. Ultimately,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're going to receive that summons, you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>receive it from the Sheriff of the court, who's going

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<v Speaker 2>to serve it personally on you and explain the nature

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<v Speaker 2>of the proceedings. What you then have to do is

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<v Speaker 2>you've got to realize that you've got ten court days.

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<v Speaker 2>And what it means when I say court days is

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<v Speaker 2>that court days does not incorporate a public holiday or weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>So those court days you've got is ten, and you've

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<v Speaker 2>got to file your notice of intention to defend within

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<v Speaker 2>those ten court days, and in the event that you

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<v Speaker 2>fail to do that, it does mean that the court

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<v Speaker 2>sees the proceedings as one that is uncontested or not defended,

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<v Speaker 2>and very much will then proceed on the basis that, look,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the defendant is not interested in the proceedings.

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<v Speaker 2>We may move for a court order on the basis

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of what the plaintiff, meaning the person who's

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<v Speaker 2>filed for divorce what they've asked for in the papers.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's very important that you take note of the

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<v Speaker 2>summons that you're receiving and you actually defend it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, now we've got a lessener asking about the comment

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<v Speaker 1>you made about how the cost of divorce can get

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<v Speaker 1>up to one hundred thousand plus, saying who is getting

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<v Speaker 1>the hundred or who is taking the one hundred thousand rand?

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<v Speaker 2>So your points an attorney who will legally represent you,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're paying your attorney fees, so that is the

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<v Speaker 2>person you're playing is your attorney. So various attorneys, they

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<v Speaker 2>costs very depending on the hourly rate. So one attorney

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<v Speaker 2>might charge you one thousand and one an hour and

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<v Speaker 2>a different one might charge you one thousand and nine hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>valling on level of experience as well. Those things do

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<v Speaker 2>come into play.

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<v Speaker 1>And often I think people when it's very acrimonious, want

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<v Speaker 1>to outdo one another with the best attorney, and I

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<v Speaker 1>suppose assign cost to that process.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite correct, Yes, quite correct, Renee.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it possible to do a DIY divorce and keep

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<v Speaker 1>the costs down?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, It's very possible. A lot of people ask me

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<v Speaker 2>that question and the answer one hundred percent years. And

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<v Speaker 2>you can approach the court in the area where you reside,

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<v Speaker 2>right and you can go and speak to the clerk

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<v Speaker 2>of the divorce court about the process for doing a

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<v Speaker 2>DIY divorce. They're extremely helpful, so you'll sit down with them.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll take you through the procedural requirements and the documents

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<v Speaker 2>that you might require, which would ideally just be coming

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<v Speaker 2>along with your marriage certificate and your identity document as

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<v Speaker 2>the first means of initiating the process. Once you've sat

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<v Speaker 2>down with the clerk of the court, what will then

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<v Speaker 2>happen is they'll assist you in filling out the paperwork

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<v Speaker 2>for formulating the summons and then you, as the person

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<v Speaker 2>initiating the divorce again refer to as the plaintiff or

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<v Speaker 2>then be required to serve that summons on the defendant,

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<v Speaker 2>which is your spouse that you are divorcing. And remember

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<v Speaker 2>that when you do the DIY divorce, your coughs then

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<v Speaker 2>in a DIY divorce is going to be really just

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<v Speaker 2>the payment of the sheriff of the court. So those

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<v Speaker 2>costs estimate between about eight hundred to two thousand rand,

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<v Speaker 2>which is which might be the only costs that you

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<v Speaker 2>face when you do a DIY divorce. One thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I will say our work from the back end when

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<v Speaker 2>doing divorce proceedings where I see people make so many

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<v Speaker 2>errors and as a result of a DIY divorce, The

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<v Speaker 2>best possible advice that I can give someone doing a

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<v Speaker 2>divorce of that nature is just at one point in

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<v Speaker 2>the proceedings, consult with an attorney to take you through

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<v Speaker 2>the consequences of the divorce so that you understand the

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<v Speaker 2>type of matrimonial system that you've entered into and what

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<v Speaker 2>are the consequences and what your rights are in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the type of matrimonial system that you've entered into.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to pick up on that Renee hold on

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<v Speaker 1>one moment. If you're listening to this conversation. My guest

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<v Speaker 1>is Renee Meller at and owner of our Miller Attorneys,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're talking about the costs associated with divorce and

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<v Speaker 1>what you need to know if this is a process

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<v Speaker 1>that you are currently going through or contemplating, and you're

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to send questions to renown seven to five six

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<v Speaker 1>seven one five six seven. We were just talking about

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<v Speaker 1>what sort of type of marriage you might be in

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<v Speaker 1>and what might be associated with getting divorce? How does

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<v Speaker 1>that work? Renee? What sort of different things are involved.

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<v Speaker 2>So you when you marry someone without entering into any

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<v Speaker 2>type of agreement, the in South African law, by default,

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<v Speaker 2>it means that you're married in community of property. And

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately the three matrimonial systems that stand out would be

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<v Speaker 2>one that is in community of property, one that is

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<v Speaker 2>out of community of property where you have an anti

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<v Speaker 2>natural contracting place, and then there's one that is out

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<v Speaker 2>of community of property subject to the accrual system, so

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<v Speaker 2>your anti natural contact incorporates in a cruel system. So

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<v Speaker 2>ideally those are the three standout matrimonial regimes. There are

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<v Speaker 2>things in our law in South African law that relates

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<v Speaker 2>to customary marriages as well, and so you you must

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<v Speaker 2>be careful as to or not careful, but really do

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<v Speaker 2>understand the type of matrimonial system that you're entering into

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<v Speaker 2>when you marry someone.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's talk about that sort of cultural the differences

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<v Speaker 1>in cultural and religious marriages, because there's been a movement

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<v Speaker 1>in legislation in this regard. Can you update us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, one hundred percent. So when it comes to customary marriages,

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<v Speaker 2>per say, in terms of the Act, the Recognition of

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<v Speaker 2>Customary Marriages Act, it does say that there are various

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<v Speaker 2>requirements that must be satisfied, and there's been recent case

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<v Speaker 2>law to say that when you're marrying someone subject to

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<v Speaker 2>a polygamous marriage, you ultimately, if you're taking a second wife,

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<v Speaker 2>you need to make sure that you're obtaining the permission

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<v Speaker 2>of the High Court when it comes to the type

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<v Speaker 2>of matrimonial system that you're entering into with the second wife.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so important that that must be done. It's a requirement. Ultimately,

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<v Speaker 2>what it means is then you'd be faced with the

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<v Speaker 2>reality of with the second wife, how it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>impact her in terms of the in the event that

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<v Speaker 2>they divorce, what assets she is going to be entitled to. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>what's important to make mention of is that there is

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<v Speaker 2>a new law that is you know, you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>tabled in Parliament that speaks to the recognition or the

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<v Speaker 2>let me say, the consolidation of three existing laws, which

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<v Speaker 2>it will be named the Marriage All. It is named

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<v Speaker 2>the Marriage's Ball at this present moment in time, and

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<v Speaker 2>what it will do is consolidate is three existing acts,

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<v Speaker 2>which would be the Marriage Act. Then as well as

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<v Speaker 2>the recognition of a Customary Marriage Act as well as

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<v Speaker 2>the Civil Unions Act. So what that would do in

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<v Speaker 2>our law is that it would create a single and

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<v Speaker 2>inclusive legal framework that accommodates for South Africa's diverse cultural

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<v Speaker 2>and religious and social practices, which is going to be fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>But at this point it's still able. It's not past,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is definitely in the making.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a listener in a who says I found

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<v Speaker 1>FAMCA very helpful when getting my divorce. If you approach

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<v Speaker 1>FAMSA for assistance with divorce, are they still costs associated?

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<v Speaker 2>Fanswer does come with costs, yes, and and FAMCA is wonderful.

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<v Speaker 2>We use them a lot in terms of when we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about mediating in divorce, because what that would mean

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<v Speaker 2>is to be a registered mediator that will sit down.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's a neutral party sitting down with both parties

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<v Speaker 2>in the divorce process and trying to mediate and resolve

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<v Speaker 2>the most contentious issues of the divorce in order to

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<v Speaker 2>help them achieve some type of settlement agreement.

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<v Speaker 1>We haven't even touched RENEE on what divorce, how the

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<v Speaker 1>costs might be impacted of a divorce when they are

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<v Speaker 1>children involved, and then there are maintenance agreements that need

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<v Speaker 1>to come into play and parenting agreements that need to

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<v Speaker 1>be put in place. How does that all work?

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<v Speaker 2>So how that works is when they or minor children

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<v Speaker 2>that are involved in divorce proceedings. The reality is that

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<v Speaker 2>there's no doubt about the fact that the kids are

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<v Speaker 2>going to be affected, and so the court ultimately is

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<v Speaker 2>only concerned about first and foremost the minor children and

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<v Speaker 2>their best interest. No divorce is going to go through

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<v Speaker 2>without the stamp of approval of the family Advocate, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and that the Family Advocates office is it's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>governed by the Act to the extent of saying that

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<v Speaker 2>the best interest of the minor children. Children will always

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<v Speaker 2>be of highest priority. So whether it be in the

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<v Speaker 2>High court that you're divorcing or in the regional court,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter. The family Advocate needs to give their

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<v Speaker 2>stamp of approval to say we can see that the

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<v Speaker 2>kids or the child is being cared for.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it pard and parcel of the same process or

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<v Speaker 1>is it a separate process the divorce So it all

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<v Speaker 1>plays into the same process.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and it's not to say that it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>impact the costs. But when you're divorcing with kids involved,

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<v Speaker 2>you generally would incorporate a document called a parenting plan

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<v Speaker 2>into the divorce s freed proceedings, as it might be

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<v Speaker 2>so helpful just to deal with all those aspects in

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<v Speaker 2>one document, as opposed to having a separate parenting plan.

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<v Speaker 2>That is, it's quite a lengthy document, but it incorporates

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<v Speaker 2>all the aspects when it comes to the living arrangements

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<v Speaker 2>of the minor children. Who's going to be the primary

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<v Speaker 2>caider way are the kids going to primarily reside? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it with mom or with dad? And then who's going

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<v Speaker 2>to have a reasonable contact with the kids to the

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<v Speaker 2>extent of how often do I see the kids? Do

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<v Speaker 2>I see them every weekend if we alternate week in,

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<v Speaker 2>or is it going to be the existence of shade

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<v Speaker 2>care between mom and dad, so that being kids live

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<v Speaker 2>with mom for one week and then alternatively swapt to

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<v Speaker 2>dad for the next week.

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<v Speaker 1>We've got two accounts on the White Upline of people

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<v Speaker 1>that are doing it themselves. One saying, as it was

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<v Speaker 1>not a contested divorce, a friend went to the court

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<v Speaker 1>by himself, did everything, is not a lawyer and his

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<v Speaker 1>wife did not go and another saying a friend of

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<v Speaker 1>mine is in the process of divorce. She'd been married

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<v Speaker 1>for forty four years in community of property. Her divorce

0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 1>will be finalized on the fifteenth of August, uncontested. She's

0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 1>doing it through the quarter. Cost was two hundred Can

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<v Speaker 1>that be right? Two hundred, Yes, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Can be right. Remember I said to you, when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to the sheriff of the court, it very so

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<v Speaker 2>the sheriff will give you a quotation and say to

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<v Speaker 2>you it's going to cost me either two hundred gen,

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.640
<v Speaker 2>eight hundred jen or one thousand and five hundred ten

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 2>to serve the summons on the defendant, So that that

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 2>is a cost that is valuable to the Sheriff of

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:19.360
<v Speaker 2>the court.

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<v Speaker 1>What are some of the hidden Costnay, that people may

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 1>not expect.

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't necessarily, I wouldn't like to think of it

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>as hidden costs, because when you engage the services of

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.880
<v Speaker 2>an attorney, they'll provide you with the quotation, and they'll

0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 2>provide you with a mandate which is very detailed in

0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 2>terms of what the costs are going to be when

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 2>you engage in the proceedings.

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 1>So maybe just things like going to home affairs to

0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.200
<v Speaker 1>get your ID in your new surname your unmarried.

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Surname very important, yes, correct. And also when you when

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.120
<v Speaker 2>you've completed the divorce process, remember to go to home

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 2>affairs with your de order to update the system so

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 2>that you are reflected as divorced.

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<v Speaker 1>Renee, what are the current statistics of divorce in our country?

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Do you know?

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<v Speaker 2>I think they are fairly high. And the reason why

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<v Speaker 2>I say that is engage it on my practice. If

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.720
<v Speaker 2>I look at in a in the space of a month,

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 2>I picked up at least three or four divorces in

0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>the space of a month.

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<v Speaker 1>So and is that more than previously or is it

0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 1>sort of yes? OK, so you would say that there's

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 1>still an increasing number of people getting divorced. Yes, absolutely, Wow,

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.360
<v Speaker 1>that's so interesting, Renee. Anything else that our listeners should

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.760
<v Speaker 1>know about a divorce, be it a DIY divorce or

0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 1>a divorce through lawyers.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the best possible advice that I can give

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.280
<v Speaker 2>anyone in divorce proceedings is please remember that when you're

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.880
<v Speaker 2>signing a content paper, that document is legally binding. It's

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.520
<v Speaker 2>a contractual agreement between yourself and your expouse to be,

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<v Speaker 2>and once the terms of that consent paper has been

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 2>made an order of court. It weighs heavy. Take the time,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're doing a DIY divorce to consult with an

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 2>attorney so that they can explain the legal consequences to you.

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Because in the event it's made an order of court

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 2>and now you have to live out the terms of

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 2>that consent paper. Now you feel the force and effect

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of it and go I don't necessarily agree with it.

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 2>It is very difficult and very costly to approach the

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 2>court to vary the order.

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Renee Mellow, how can people get in touch with you

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 1>if they'd like to do so.

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I have a website it's called our Miller Attorneys. They

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 2>can reach out to me there. I'll have a TikTok

0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 2>account which is renamed Illegal. We are often post advice

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 2>on divorces and very a large number of other legal

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.000
<v Speaker 2>aspects as well, for just quick tips.

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for joining us on this Sunday morning.

0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>That's Renee Miller, attorney and owner of our Melo Attorneys.

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 1>And as you heard there, she's got a website and

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<v Speaker 1>you can even reach out to her on TikTok.