1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Elite report has found that the Democratic Alliance is spending 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: more than three hundred and five thousand round per month 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: every month supplementing the incomes of its senior representatives. In 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: an article in Business Day Today, my next guest Tara Ruis, 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: writes that the document was compiled by Dion George, the 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: party's former federal finance chair. She says it sets out 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: the amounts, how they were approved, and the way in 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: which these top up payments are paid to officials. Tara 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: joins us now on the line. Good afternoon, Tara. 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: Thank you for the work that you've done unpacking this. 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: How did you get your hands on this report? 13 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: A good journalist never revealed their sources, but it was leaked. 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: I thought that you would say as much. Now, Tara, 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: just give the listeners an overview of what the report outlines. 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: So the report details about two million that is being 17 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: spent annually for these additional payments to various leaders. So 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: these include people who are receiving state funded salaries and 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: are now being paid on top of that for party 20 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: political roles. There are some justifications, like with George Maclikus, 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: who is the chief of of the DA. They're saying 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: they're creating an extra nine thousand and ran in order 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: to fill the gap of what he would have received 24 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: had the DA Stolled been the opposition party and not 25 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: joined the g and U. We see extra editions made 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: for Mayor christ Poppas, who is receiving an extra forty 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: four thousand rand. This is on the condition that he 28 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: would stay the mayal candidate Matt Kasberg, who is also 29 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: an empty But then there's also the DA's head of 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: policy receiving additional fifty thousand rand, Celias Brugg receiving an 31 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: extra sixty two thousand rand. This was when he had 32 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: moved from Parliament to the City of Twente after being 33 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: removed as the mayor. And then we have various additions 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: for John Stna's and the leader who had just seved 35 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: various top ups. We're looking at additional clothing allowances, We're 36 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: looking at party credit cards being extended. So that these 37 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: are large sums of money that we're currently talking about, 38 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: and the question an ethical question is coming in specifically 39 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: around as Rustarkan, who is the Deputy Minister of Finance. 40 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: Section ninety six of the Constitution states that members of 41 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: the executive are not allowed to receive payment for work 42 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: done outside of their legislative role, so they're not allowed 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: to receive extra remuneration. And he is receiving an extra 44 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: fifty thousand yan in order because he is the campaign 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: manager for the Demochanicalized going into the local government election period. 46 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: So we're seeking legal clarity on that. Business Day has 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: written to the Presidency. The Presidency is comfirmed that they 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: did not know this is happening. They need to speak 49 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: to the Deputy Minister first in order to gain clarity 50 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: there and then they will revert back to us for comment. 51 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: The DA has said that this is not remuneration. This 52 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: is merely just a stipend for party, a performance and 53 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: work he is doing for the party. And that's the 54 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: difficulties that the constitution doesn't fine paid work. It says 55 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: that they're not allowed to do paid work, but it 56 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: doesn't define what paid work is. And I doubt this 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: is the loss we're going to be talking about this topic. 58 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: And a stipend of fifty thousand ran and you mentioned 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: the other sixty two thousand round these are these are 60 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: large top upstart. What does this take those individual salaries too, 61 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: what is their total taken? 62 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: So we're looking at John Steney's and who is now 63 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: earning close to two million and a year, and we 64 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: were looking at the additions for rays are the part 65 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: of leaders. They're earning well above their called cassilias brig 66 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: for example, I mean the average salary of a counselor. 67 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: He is now making more doubt more than double of that. 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: And so it brings into a lot of questions around 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: clarity of the uniation. Specifically, over the last week, care 70 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: ab A Cacao, who is the spokesperson for the Democratic Alliance, 71 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: was prohibited from continuing in her campaigning role for Deputy 72 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: Federal Chairperson because she did not get a certificate of 73 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: financial good standing because she had missed one tithing payment 74 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: to the DA. And so it is bringing enlarged questionings 75 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: to saying, well, they are these readers were actually receiving 76 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: top ups. So why was someone who accidentally missed a 77 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: payment paid the payment immediately once I'd realized this payment 78 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: had been missed, not been allowed to enter the campaign race. 79 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: There is an argument to say, you know what this is, 80 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: the DA is private money. It shouldn't be for discourse 81 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: in the public purview, but it does bring into questions. 82 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 2: I mean, if someone is a public representative and receiving 83 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 2: a state funded salary, should they be receiving additional salary 84 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: top ups for doing work outside of their public representative role. 85 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: Indeed, I mean look at John Stennas, and of course 86 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: he is a minister. He is receiving a ministerial salary, 87 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: but then still receiving a private top up from the DA. 88 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: Using more than one private top up. And what do 89 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: these private top ups constitute? I mean, there are clothing allowances, 90 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 2: there are extra credit cards spend. The question we need 91 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 2: to big is do are public representatives living within their means? 92 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: And are these top ups something that can be justified. 93 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: This report was rather leaked at a very interesting time. 94 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: The Democratic Alliance nominations for their internal processes closed the 95 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: Seek Friday and they go to Congress on the eleventh 96 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: of April to both for the new selective leadership. And 97 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: it does bring into question for many people who work 98 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: at a local branch level to say, I mean, volunteers 99 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: struggle to get paid, but we see senior figures being 100 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 2: paid these gross amounts of money on top of their 101 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: gross salaries. 102 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: Really now, Tara, you've probably seen this that I've just 103 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: received a press release stating that Action Essays formally lodged 104 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: complaints with the Public Protector in Parliament's Ethics Committee following 105 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: these allegations that senior Democratic Alliance public representatives have received 106 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: additional top up payments. I'm imagining we can expect to 107 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: see more, you know, other parties joining that kind of 108 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: line of complaining. 109 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely, So the key question now is not only around 110 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: Astra Syrapin. Is he a largerly what the DA is 111 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: now calling assitement, but is a large sum of money 112 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: for his work as the campaign manager while store being 113 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: the Deputy Minister of Finance. Moreover, when looking at John 114 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: Stan Haysen's top ups, why was that not then declared 115 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 2: in the member's ethics statement? Quarterly Parliament released reports of 116 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 2: MP's and members of the Executive declaring whether they've received 117 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: extra income, whether they've been gifted anything, and they need 118 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: to declare these amounts were not declared and why not? 119 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: In your article, Tara, you also go on to detail 120 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: some of the reimbursements made to Helen Zilla to offset 121 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: her pension losses. Tell listeners about that. 122 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 2: So Helen Zillah was reimbursed a total of one point 123 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 2: thirty six million to aufset her pension losses when she 124 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 2: had moved from Parliament to the City of Capdown, which 125 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: was almost twenty years ago for many listeners who remember. 126 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: So this was when Helen's a led moved to the 127 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 2: city of Capdown and shortly before becoming the mayor, and 128 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: so that was to offset the pension she had lost 129 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: from her parliamentary pension. It doesn't bring into the question 130 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: why was the sum of money only paid out now 131 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 2: when the transition happens a long ago. The report did 132 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: not detail that, and it's also detailed in the report 133 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: tax benefitulating to us Nane saying that the DA did 134 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: not pay any of his offsetting tax and he needed 135 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: to cover those costs himself despite their being the reports. 136 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: In this more money left the DA that they were 137 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: covering a lot of his own personal financial costs. The 138 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: report slightly details that. Now. 139 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm assuming Tara that you approached the DA for comment 140 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: when you were writing the story. What have they said? 141 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: So the DA has stated that it was a very 142 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: short comment viewer age. It told that a statement was 143 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: going to be released by the DA, they did not 144 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: release a statement at all, the spite telling Business Day 145 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: that this morning. But all we got in the DA 146 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: was a simple paragraph saying that the payment is a 147 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: party allowance linked to his political office as Deputy Federal 148 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: Council Chair responsible for now campaign management and that the 149 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: last declaration period was before he had started receiving the 150 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: tradditional salary top up and that's why he didn't declare 151 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: and the party has their own schedule policies in place. 152 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: But it does really bring into question is this an allowance. 153 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: Is fifty thousand yards an allow once because many people 154 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: would declare that as a salary. Furthermore, is Astra Sarapate 155 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: allowed to take on the role of being the national 156 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: campaign manager while for being the Deputy Minister of Finance. 157 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: It's something we would approached the presidency for. They said 158 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: they need to they did not know about this. They 159 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 2: need to seek more clarity from the Deputy Finance Minister's 160 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 2: office before reverting with comments. But these are all questions 161 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: that are up in the air and it proves to 162 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: the first transition of the GNU because in the A 163 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: ANDC historically the campaign manager has never been someone in 164 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: an executive role. This is the first time that we're 165 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 2: dealing with this Africans and more will be coming in 166 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: the weeks ahead. 167 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: Tyre, to your knowledge, do other political parties pay similar 168 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: top ups? 169 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: It is typical for party leaders for there to be 170 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: top ups when we're looking at additional extra expenses. But 171 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: it is first to my knowledge that I am seeing 172 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: top ups for a variety of leaders across the board. 173 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: We're not just talking about one or two people. Yeah, 174 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: We're talking about six, seven, eight people who are receiving 175 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: various top ups from the DA. And it also does 176 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: bring in the question should public representatives be able to 177 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: hold party roles? I mean, when you are elected as 178 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: a public representative and you are being paid by the 179 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 2: soul African tax player, we expect you to fulfill your role. 180 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: I mean, usually does bring into questioning how much are 181 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: they spitting their time with their elective public representative role 182 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: and their party commitments. Because if you're receiving a salary 183 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: or in the DA's words, are stipend, you are expected 184 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: to perform there are KPIs that need to be met 185 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: and is that to the neglect of your public representative 186 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: work or we don't know believe. 187 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: It THEE thank you very much for your time this afternoon. 188 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: That's tip I Rose Business Days, Parliamentary Reporter,