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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

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Speaker 1: O two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk at all.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by ABSs Sponsorships, proud sponsor of the absur Cape Epic,

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Speaker 3: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails. ABSA

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Speaker 3: is a registered FSP. Ten minutes after six, good evening,

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the program. I'm Stephen Curtis today. That really

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Speaker 3: will be remembered for one thing, and I wish it

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Speaker 3: could be for the investment conference, but we all know

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Speaker 3: it won't be. It'll be remembered for a very big

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Speaker 3: fuel increase. And you've heard the numbers a million times

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Speaker 3: by now, but just over three round eleta for petrol,

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Speaker 3: just over seven rand e liter for diesel could have

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Speaker 3: been a lot worse, of course, because of government's intervention.

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Speaker 3: The question is how long could we rarely go on

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Speaker 3: for Government's going to cost six billion rand just for

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Speaker 3: the first month, and unfortunately no suggestion from anyone that

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Speaker 3: it really will all be over by then. We just

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Speaker 3: don't know what's going to happen in Iran. Will update

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Speaker 3: you on that in just a moment. Also, we'll speak

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Speaker 3: to the chief economists at Momentum Investments Nisha Pakar Rosami,

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Speaker 3: are particularly keen to hear about the impact on inflation.

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Speaker 3: And then also, and this is where it starts to

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Speaker 3: get sticky if we're still here a month from now,

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Speaker 3: if we still have oil prices at that level. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's going to be one of the important conversations.

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Speaker 3: That big investment conference, the South Africa Investment Conference or

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Speaker 3: invest South Africa Conference in Santon at the convention Center

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Speaker 3: obviously a big focus of activity today. The President was

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Speaker 3: their Partstau the DTIC Minister was their various other role players.

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Speaker 3: We'll speak to the chair at Brand South Africa, Hippa

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Speaker 3: ling Solele. They're one of the organizers here. And just

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Speaker 3: the message that you craft to attract capital in these times.

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Speaker 3: And I made the point when we spoke to Minister

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Speaker 3: Taw last week. You could say it's a terrible time

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Speaker 3: to take a risk. You could also say where else

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Speaker 3: are you going to put your money right now? Because

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Speaker 3: we're not that affected by everything else that's happening in

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Speaker 3: other parts of world. So I think that's an important aspect.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you knew this, I didn't know

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Speaker 3: this when I woke up this morning. But the amount

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Speaker 3: of money that is stored in assets and by the

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Speaker 3: by the basically by our long term insurance industry has

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Speaker 3: gone past five trillion rand for the first time five

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Speaker 3: point two trillion rand. Obviously rising markets having a bit

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Speaker 3: of an impact on that, but the number of policies

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Speaker 3: people's take out still very very high. And then gen

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Speaker 3: Z younger people, you know me, they seem to invest

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Speaker 3: differently to older people, and there seems to be this

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Speaker 3: idea of having a stake in something you use, so

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Speaker 3: it's not just about making money, it's about something else.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about that with Novedna Maharaj, the head of

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Speaker 3: Global Markets and Retail Investments at the Standard Bank. I

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Speaker 3: think that's going to be an important conversation. Good to

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Speaker 3: hear from you, O double one doaa three oh seven

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Speaker 3: two two one four four six five six seven. I'd

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Speaker 3: really like to hear your experience over the last couple

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Speaker 3: of days of filling up. Were you able to do

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Speaker 3: it on Sunday? Are you stuck in a queue now?

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Speaker 3: Did you send the eighteen year old? Because you know,

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Speaker 3: learning to drive also means learning to queue oh seven

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Speaker 3: two seven oh two one seven O to your experience

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Speaker 3: of queueing for petrol today. I know some people one

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Speaker 3: or two telling me they're trying to fill up in

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Speaker 3: township areas this morning. No petrol there. Other people, it

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Speaker 3: seems seem to be well supplied. Your experience. Please be

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Speaker 3: really good to hear that. Tonight, thirteen after six, The

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Speaker 3: Lonely Show.

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Speaker 4: With Stephen krudis live on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 4: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 5: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Well, you can imagine the situation at petrol stations around

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Speaker 3: the country. Government confirming it'll cut the fuel levee by

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Speaker 3: three round e litera but petrol going up by over

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Speaker 3: three round a liter, diesel up seven rand a liter.

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Speaker 3: From midnight in Kosikona, Malingam Nissi is the e WN

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Speaker 3: reporter who's been out and about, still out at one

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Speaker 3: of the garages in sant and in kosy Konic. Good

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Speaker 3: evening to you. You've been in Santin, you've been driving

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Speaker 3: around other places as well. What have you seen today?

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Speaker 3: What our driver is telling you?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, this evening to you, as Stephen, I think the

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Speaker 6: reality is really setting in for many of the drivers

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Speaker 6: that I've engaged with today, and it's certainly clear now

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Speaker 6: that this is no April fool jokes. This is the

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Speaker 6: new reality for South African motives, and any of them

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Speaker 6: saying that Stephen that they are already bucking under a

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Speaker 6: pressure and that this only signals even half the times

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Speaker 6: ahead for them both. I'm at one of the people

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Speaker 6: stations on Race and Drive and I can probably Stephen

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Speaker 6: that the line is backed up right onto the busy

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Speaker 6: route to Hear, and many of the motives are engaged

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Speaker 6: with saying, we were really trying to get out of

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Speaker 6: work as quickly as we potentially could have to try

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Speaker 6: and then make it on time before the clock strikes

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Speaker 6: at midnight, which, of course, as you've mentioned, Stephen, when

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Speaker 6: we're respecting those new petrol apprices to come into effect.

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Speaker 6: And I can also hi you that this particular petrol station,

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Speaker 6: Steven has also devised some form of strategy to ensure

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Speaker 6: that it can control the volume of vessels here. So

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Speaker 6: they are essentially finding ways blocking off some sections of

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Speaker 6: the petrol garage to ensure that they can do this

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Speaker 6: as orderly as possible. As I said, the traffic is

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Speaker 6: going onto the road, and hence also there concerns around

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Speaker 6: the safety of the motors in those particular vehicles. But

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Speaker 6: it seems for the petrol attendance for the South at

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Speaker 6: the petrol station, and I can only safely assume of

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Speaker 6: trust the country is going to be a very busy knife.

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Speaker 6: Hence you also touched on this a little bit in

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Speaker 6: your interests. Even the concern around the shortage. I mean,

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Speaker 6: governments continues to insist that there is enough supply nationally,

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Speaker 6: but really the situation on the ground where you look

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Speaker 6: at birth other reports, even from other problems, is that

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Speaker 6: some petfrol stations are already putting limits to how much

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Speaker 6: fuel consumers can actually purchase. And also I told you

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Speaker 6: about how motives there were saying that we were rushing

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Speaker 6: to get out of work. You know, that really demonstrates

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Speaker 6: how worried they are that petrol barat could then run

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Speaker 6: out of fuel. But ever say government continues to then

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Speaker 6: show and you know, moving to a layers that the

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Speaker 6: country won't run out of fuel. And there's also some

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Speaker 6: interesting conversations I've had with motives around what they think

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Speaker 6: government could have further done to essentially push them against

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Speaker 6: the situation that we're seeing a developed of course, as

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Speaker 6: a result of those attensions. I mean some of them

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Speaker 6: are saying, Dave feelers, the government should have gone the

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Speaker 6: whole way and completely stop that full levied. But people

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Speaker 6: that no more part of leaf human about how these

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Speaker 6: feels really work. We'll tell you that it's simply not possible.

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Speaker 6: We're speaking about six billion rand and losses the government

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Speaker 6: now needs to recover in somewhere because of pupping that

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Speaker 6: fuel levy by three ran eight least.

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Speaker 3: In cosy Kana, thank you so much. In Cosconoma Lingeram

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Speaker 3: Nissi's the e WN reporter on this in Santin tonight.

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Speaker 3: Senesha Pakaasani is the Momentum Investment's chief economist. Senesia, good evening,

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Speaker 3: Thanks for your time. Just the fact that so many

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Speaker 3: people are queuing trying to save themselves the extra cost

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Speaker 3: of what petrol will be in sort of five hours

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Speaker 3: time shows you how desperate people are. What is this

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Speaker 3: going to do to inflation as those new fuel prices

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Speaker 3: come in, so many people will feel an impact immediately.

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Speaker 7: Good evening, Stephen, and hello to your listeners. You know

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Speaker 7: it's completely understandable. This is one of the largest petrol

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Speaker 7: or fuel price increases we've had historically and that they're

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Speaker 7: really substantiate, you know the reason that we see these

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Speaker 7: mon cues at the petrol station. Of course, the big

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Speaker 7: announcement from today was from Finance Minister in Afgana announcing

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Speaker 7: that we would get a three rand perleta cut on

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Speaker 7: the fuel levees and so that brings your overall price

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Speaker 7: increase for your ninety five inland petrol to three rand

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Speaker 7: and six cents spoleta and for the purest form of

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Speaker 7: diesel at seven rand and fifty one Saints poleita. Of course,

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Speaker 7: remember that with your diesel these prices are unregulated and

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Speaker 7: so they can still be a retail and wholesale margin

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Speaker 7: applied to that, which of course then is a further

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Speaker 7: drag and consumer pockets. When we look at fuel, it's

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Speaker 7: only about three point eight percent of the consumer basket.

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Speaker 7: But as we know, many of our food products are

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Speaker 7: actually transported by road and so they can potentially be

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Speaker 7: a food price impact. About three to six months is

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Speaker 7: a bit of a time lag by the time the

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Speaker 7: food gets from the farmers to the end retail, so

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Speaker 7: the overall impact on the consumer can be a bit

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Speaker 7: more significant, given that we've had this announcement of the

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Speaker 7: three rand cut in the fuel levy, that should shave

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Speaker 7: off about nor point four to nor point five percentititch

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Speaker 7: points from that peak rate of inflation.

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Speaker 3: As we heading to April, government's losing six billion round.

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Speaker 3: As you say, considering the impact this would have had

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Speaker 3: in our economy otherwise, is that a good investment. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it might well save us an interest rate hike.

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Speaker 7: I think that we were quite fortunate when we think

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Speaker 7: about twenty twenty two, and that was the last time

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Speaker 7: that government actually intervened with a fuel levy reduction. That

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Speaker 7: was around the third quarter of twenty twenty two, and

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Speaker 7: it was as a result of Russia's invasion into Ukraine,

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Speaker 7: which then of course saw oil prices picking up over

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Speaker 7: that period of time, also had a pickup in the

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Speaker 7: food price over that period of time, and government actually

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Speaker 7: gave a relief of around one ruane fifty. At that

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Speaker 7: point in time, the fiscal measures were looking a lot

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Speaker 7: poorer than there are today. You know, going into the

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Speaker 7: February budgets of corporate tax revenue receipts and assumptions for

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Speaker 7: future corporate tax revenues, we're looking quite healthy. We also

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Speaker 7: have a contingency reserve that's paid into the budget and

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Speaker 7: so there is a little bit of leeway for government

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Speaker 7: to in fact spend on that three rand liter And

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Speaker 7: as you say, I think it's going to be a

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Speaker 7: reasonably good investment from the fiscal side, given that it

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Speaker 7: does prevent that inflation spike from peaking at an even

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Speaker 7: higher rate. And then of course that alleviates the pressure

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Speaker 7: on the monetary policy side, as we see fiscal policy

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Speaker 7: work hand in hand with monetary policy.

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Speaker 3: Sanisha paker Assani, thanks so much, really appreciated, the chief

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Speaker 3: economist at Momentum Investments. Your story is the betel Stations.

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Speaker 3: Y're end please oh seven two seven oh two one

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Speaker 3: seven two twenty one after six.

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Speaker 4: The Money Show with Stephen cut on seven oh two

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Speaker 4: seven o.

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Speaker 3: Two, the President Sarama Pausa opening the Big South Africa

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Speaker 3: Investment Conference in Santa this morning. After that, the DTIC

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Speaker 3: Minister Park starw explaining how South Africa should be able

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Speaker 3: to attract over to trillion rand and investment over the

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Speaker 3: next couple of years. Epelang Selele is the chair of

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Speaker 3: Brand South Africa, one of the organizations that arranged the

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Speaker 3: conference Theippelan good evening and thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: your time. It's a big target to trillion rand. Obviously

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Speaker 3: the President and the ministers have a duty to sell

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Speaker 3: South Africa. So do you I suppose so do we all?

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Speaker 3: Do you think investors are willing to buy South Africa

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Speaker 3: as an investment destination?

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Speaker 4: Yes, thank you and good evening Stephen, all to you

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Speaker 4: and of course your viewers, and thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: So yes, it is possible.

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Speaker 4: It's definitely possible because you might have I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: they have been following some of the kink it through

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Speaker 4: some of the outcomes or rather some of the presentations,

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Speaker 4: which remember we've been going through embarking on the structural

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Speaker 4: reforms and even look at where we are. We are

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Speaker 4: turning a corner and we'll actually made focus with we've

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Speaker 4: gained momentum, so that the discussions today was literally not

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Speaker 4: necessarily to say what's that in from sprush? How do

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Speaker 4: we then build on the moment momentum that we are,

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Speaker 4: How do we build on the momentum and most important

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Speaker 4: for how do we have staying that right? So and

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Speaker 4: before we even talk about the figures, we have to

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Speaker 4: then look at what are these aspects for fundamentals that

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Speaker 4: we're looking at. So from an infrastructure perspective, very very possible.

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Speaker 4: Water as you know if you remember with our Somaan

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Speaker 4: seeds from the President, it is possible water, right, and

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Speaker 4: then if you also look at the energy transition, it

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Speaker 4: is possible, political minerals and digital technology, so it is possible.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, the timing is complicated. We're an emerging country. That

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Speaker 3: means we're often seen as a riskier investment. There's a

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Speaker 3: reason the rand as we can in the and the

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Speaker 3: dollar has strengthened. Sence the attacks in Iran. Is this

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Speaker 3: a bad time to try and sell South Africa as

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Speaker 3: a result of that.

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Speaker 4: No, it's definitely a perfect time because remember what is

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Speaker 4: now whereas you recall that some of the rating agencies

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Speaker 4: that actually upgraded us, right and then secondly, if you remember,

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Speaker 4: we're also of the greatest thing.

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Speaker 3: So I think the risk.

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Speaker 4: Let's also remember that risk is perception because you also

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Speaker 4: have the perceptual risk and it's important to define that

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Speaker 4: because remember with PG twenty and B twenty, that's exactly

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Speaker 4: what we're discussing. Interesting this it's risky for Woo and

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Speaker 4: what does that mean?

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Speaker 8: So it is also perception.

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Speaker 4: So I would like to believe that this is the

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Speaker 4: perfect time because you've got the proof points and you

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Speaker 4: are proving yourself of course as a country to invest

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Speaker 4: us that when you said that you're embarking on the

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Speaker 4: structural reforms, actually rule mean what you're saying, because oftentimes

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Speaker 4: countries will say we are going through structural reforms and

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Speaker 4: then you still talk about it the following year. So

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Speaker 4: I think the key thing for us now it's no

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Speaker 4: longer MetOp saying, is at the right time. Now we're

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Speaker 4: going to accelerate the pace and moving that needle and

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Speaker 4: looking at what the low healing foods are that can

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Speaker 4: help us to actually drive or increase GDP group because

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Speaker 4: group is going to be quite important.

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Speaker 3: Other countries have tried to sell themselves over the some

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Speaker 3: have been very successful, some haven't. What methods work to

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Speaker 3: do that? And I know at the bottom of it,

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Speaker 3: what people really want is a sort of rock solid

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Speaker 3: certainty on everything on mining rights, property rights, where the

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Speaker 3: legislation will change. They really want that certainty. I mean

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Speaker 3: that's crucial to this.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, something is very important Steven, you know, means that

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Speaker 4: I'm a copa delive that an interesting presentation and taking

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Speaker 4: us through the approach that they are deploying on his

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Speaker 4: transmission program and even listen to that because that also

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Speaker 4: speaks to the tangibles, because we no longer define the program's

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Speaker 4: statement and focus a lot more on the tangibles. So

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Speaker 4: if they have listened to what means that i'm apa

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Speaker 4: outlined in terms of those the key processes when you

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Speaker 4: talk about penmittee, for instance, we no longer have to

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Speaker 4: take a long time to be able to get our

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Speaker 4: penits for some of our projects. And then we also

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Speaker 4: talk about the regulatory framework. We do have certainty our

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Speaker 4: police and also with the policey certainty. So I think

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Speaker 4: the key thing for me forget about the fact that

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Speaker 4: I'm the brand set a person. It is actually to

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Speaker 4: sit in a room where you listen to the President

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Speaker 4: delivering his speech, you listen to Minister Fasta delivering his speech,

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Speaker 4: you listen to Ramahopa aprocreasing McPherson and Minister there is

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Speaker 4: coherence And I think for me now as brand, as

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Speaker 4: enter person, I couldn't be more proud to manage a

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Speaker 4: nation brand that is so dynamic and that is growing right,

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Speaker 4: because now you've got a seamless, very aligned messaging which

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Speaker 4: sometimes for many countries it's actually it's not.

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Speaker 3: It's very ray. Thank you so much. Sole is the

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Speaker 3: chair of Brands South Africa. Probably the busiest day of

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Speaker 3: the year, so ready to appreciate the time. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Twenty six minutes after six the Money Show the Market

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Speaker 3: fo is lead Specialist Investments in Trading sales at Abscess,

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Speaker 3: c IRB Marco Good Evening. Votercoma buying Safcom in Kenya.

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Speaker 3: It's now going to court in Kenya. I think it's

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Speaker 3: going to the Chief Justice for some reason. Could that

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Speaker 3: stop the steal.

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Speaker 9: Us even no, I don't think so. It does seem

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Speaker 9: like a little bit of political grand standing there. Remember

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Speaker 9: that the stake in Safcom belongs to the Kenyan government

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Speaker 9: and they are selling it down to Votericon. Votcom already

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Speaker 9: owned a significant stake there, so they'll just be upping

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Speaker 9: their stake in getting a little bit more control out

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Speaker 9: of it. But the Kenyan government will still have a

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Speaker 9: pretty significant interest in the stock post this steal. But

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Speaker 9: as you say, yes, gone to the Chief Justice. He

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Speaker 9: will have to appoint a three panel bench to decide

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Speaker 9: whether the interdet currently in place is that lid or not.

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Speaker 3: In the UK of the Financial Conduct Authority is finally,

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Speaker 3: and I really do hope I can use the word

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Speaker 3: finally here issued a final decision about the amount of

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Speaker 3: money car sellers have to pay out for what's called

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Speaker 3: the mis selling of costs. Basically, the financial products behind

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Speaker 3: them were missold. First rand Own the Oldermoor Group in

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Speaker 3: the UK, they're exposed. Their sense statement said, we're assessing.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what that means. How bad is it

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Speaker 3: going to be?

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Speaker 8: Well?

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Speaker 2: Seven?

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Speaker 9: I mean interestingly, today the stock was actually the best

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Speaker 9: performing out of the banks of about two point nine percent.

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Speaker 9: And I think this is exactly to your point. People

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Speaker 9: breathing aside of relief, hoping that this will give us

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Speaker 9: some finality and some clarity. I think the other thing

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Speaker 9: they looked at is it actually looked a little bit

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Speaker 9: better than people might have feared. So, you know, fifteen

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Speaker 9: percent fear of agreements. Total cost of redress coming in

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Speaker 9: at about nine point one billion pounds, but this was

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Speaker 9: from their initial proposed sort of eleven billion pounds, so

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Speaker 9: pretty significant, you know, lower amount there. I guess what

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Speaker 9: the market is still going to grapple with is where

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Speaker 9: the first rounds well enough provided for this. They've provided

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Speaker 9: about two hundred and forty million pounds at this point,

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Speaker 9: and they all said to us, well, we'll tell you

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Speaker 9: next week once we look through it.

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Speaker 3: I mean what this also means is we've seen bank

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Speaker 3: a bank, so investig also a couple of others all

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Speaker 3: having to say we've made provision. They really did plan,

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Speaker 3: and they planned a long time ago, absolutely right.

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Speaker 9: I mean as soon as this sort of came out

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Speaker 9: the case came to the fore in the UK, you'd

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Speaker 9: suc see the very conservative management team at First ruand

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Speaker 9: taking the provision as they should. But I guess that

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Speaker 9: you know, the point is is what you think your

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Speaker 9: potential liability is versus what the regulators telling you're going

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Speaker 9: to have to pay could be different, you know, and

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Speaker 9: we've seen some of the large banks in the UK

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Speaker 9: take very significant provisions for this.

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Speaker 3: Precious metals up today, gold and platinum actually any particular reason.

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Speaker 3: I mean everyone's sort of optimistic. US markets are up

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Speaker 3: on hopes of a de escalation. I mean, I honestly

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Speaker 3: can't see what they're basing that on. I think everyone's

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Speaker 3: looking for some good news, Stephen. It really feels that way.

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Speaker 9: As you say, gold up over one hundred dollars, platinum

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Speaker 9: up forty dollars, plaid them up fifty five, so giving

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Speaker 9: our stocks quite a last boost. We saw Sabunia up

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Speaker 9: nearly five percent, Anglo gold up about four but along

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Speaker 9: with that you saw weaker dollar and the rand. Actually

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Speaker 9: you're posting quite a good day approaching back that seventeen level,

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Speaker 9: which I could also provide a little bit of respite.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's been one of the talking points of

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Speaker 3: this sing A conflict. You'd expect gold to go up,

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Speaker 3: but it had such a run before it actually went down.

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Speaker 3: I saw, I can't remember. It might have been Goldman Sachs,

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Speaker 3: but there was an analyst note out today as suggesting

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Speaker 3: that in fact, gold could sort of settle it around

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Speaker 3: five four hundred later in the air, and that's significantly

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Speaker 3: higher than where it is now, almost one thousand dollars higher.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, see mean, look, I think history often tells us

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Speaker 9: that at the beginning of these conflicts of uncertainties, people

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Speaker 9: tend to liquidate gold to cover you know, calls on

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Speaker 9: other investments. You know, it's very liquid, very easy to

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Speaker 9: get hold of and generally performs well into these events.

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Speaker 9: So you know what we've generally seen after that is

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Speaker 9: give it a few months and you'll actually see gold

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Speaker 9: starting to creep up again as people go back to

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Speaker 9: that safe haven status.

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Speaker 3: Thanks very much. Indeed, Marco Tafo is the elite specialist

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Speaker 3: for Investment and Trading sales at Absolute CIB bringing the

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Speaker 3: time to six thirty.

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Speaker 8: What's up to Stephen On seventy two to one?

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Speaker 3: Well, good year from you tonight. Your experiences are being

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Speaker 3: in filling stations, petrol stations tonight coming through.

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Speaker 5: Well, I'm sitting at the Doll garage here in Santam.

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Speaker 5: They have fuel coming out of their ears. They're filling

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Speaker 5: my tank, no problem at the current price, regardless of

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Speaker 5: what's coming up midnight. That's what's on the street.

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Speaker 3: All right. Thank you for that a positive situation. There's

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Speaker 3: Simon and Swanapratoria. Hi Simon, thanks for calling. What's your

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Speaker 3: experience tonight?

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Speaker 10: Stephen? I just want to say I made a wise

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Speaker 10: decision on the wife's decision this morning. I filled that

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Speaker 10: before I went. But I'm I'm in back home now.

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Speaker 10: I've passed gone past four filling stations it's so chaotic,

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Speaker 10: it's so full. It's like everybody in the city. You

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Speaker 10: want to use one entrance into Cape Town Stadium. Really,

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Speaker 10: I did a good thing to do with in the morning,

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Speaker 10: but at the moment it doesn't look good. You have

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Speaker 10: to be patient, and you have to be patient a

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Speaker 10: gay before you go to the pump.

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Speaker 3: No, and where in Pretoria are you, Simon?

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Speaker 10: I'm jacking Pretoria is you have a fairy Glen area

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Speaker 10: and Leanood area. But you know it's the same pain

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Speaker 10: is the same filling station.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, right, Simon, thank you for that.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you were able to fill up earlier this morning.

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Speaker 3: All right, So every filling station it seems just full,

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Speaker 3: just shock a block and you can imagine why. It's

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Speaker 3: a significant saving, especially if you are buying it. If

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Speaker 3: you use a diesel car, you know, or sort of

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Speaker 3: one of the big diesel SUVs. They go through fuel.

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Speaker 3: They have massive tanks. You followed up. Now you're saving

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Speaker 3: yourself literally a fortune. Twenty two minutes now to seven

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Speaker 3: o'clock seven o two.

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Speaker 11: Email him on Stephen at seven o two dot co dotz.

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Speaker 3: Well seventeen minutes now to seven the time News this

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Speaker 3: week that really I think for the first time, the

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Speaker 3: amount of money manage by our longer term insurance industry,

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Speaker 3: including life insurers obviously has gone past five trillion rand.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously stock market's really rocketing last year having

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Speaker 3: a big impact on that now at five point two

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Speaker 3: trillion rand. Gareth Friedlander is a member of the c

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Speaker 3: SET Life and Risk Board Committee, the insurance body that

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Speaker 3: looks at this, Gareth good Evening, I mean, so obviously

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Speaker 3: this number you would expect would edge up year after year.

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Speaker 3: Markets moved quite significantly last year. Did that start to

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Speaker 3: help to move the amounts of money under management a

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Speaker 3: lot over the last few months.

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Speaker 12: Yes, Stephen good Evening. It certainly was market driven.

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Speaker 13: Obviously you would expect these numbers, as you've seen the

436
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 13: trend over the years, to increase over time, but buy

437
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 13: it by a very strong bull market. Last year we

438
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 13: did see the number of assets managed by long term

439
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 13: insurance in South Africa really go up quite significantly to

440
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 13: over as you mentioned, five trillion for the first time,

441
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,479
Speaker 13: five point two trillion to be exact.

442
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: At the moment your managers manage I think it's forty

443
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 3: six point two million policies that involve sort of risks

444
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: and savings. They are obviously different, different kinds of products.

445
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: There are only sixty two million people in South Africa,

446
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: and for a moment I got quite excited. I thought,

447
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 3: oh wait, quite a lot of our people do have policies.

448
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 3: But then I realized this is probably the same people,

449
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 3: the same group of people with lots of different policies.

450
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's right.

451
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 13: We don't have the exact stats at a kind of

452
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 13: entity level, but we do know that that forty six

453
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 13: point two million is made up of a wide range

454
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 13: of policies, including long term risk insurance, savings policies, a

455
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 13: host of funeral policies, and we know many clients tend

456
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 13: to have multiple funeral policies.

457
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 12: So it is a big number. But obviously, you know.

458
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 13: To go with that is a big insurance app that

459
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 13: we have reported on in the last few weeks as well.

460
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 13: So people do remain significantly underinsured from a South African

461
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 13: population perspective, at a sixty one percent insurance gap in

462
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 13: the country.

463
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 3: It's a huge gap, and it's sort of out inequality

464
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 3: gap in a way. Have you seen that number change

465
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: at all? Is there any sort of sign for us

466
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 3: to be optimistic. I mean, is that gap being closed

467
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 3: or is it being quite stubborn.

468
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 13: It's it is being stubborn, to be honest. We've seen

469
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 13: some pockets of optimism. The actual numbers go up each year,

470
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 13: but that's just because you know, you would expect the

471
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 13: gross numbers to increase as the population increases and as

472
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 13: people's earnings increase. But from a gap perspective, it remains

473
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 13: incredibly stubborn. And it is just so important that consumers

474
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 13: try and reduce that gap given, you know, to give

475
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 13: them some resilience against these life changing events, because it

476
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 13: is just so much more difficult once you've had a

477
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 13: death or an illness or a disability in the family

478
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 13: to then try and you know, kind of adapt to

479
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 13: the new life changing circumstances that that family finds itself in.

480
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 13: So insurance is the best way to do that, and

481
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 13: we need to try and keep closing that gap.

482
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 3: Eleven million policies bought last year. Funeral policy is probably

483
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: the bulk of that. I mean, they're the biggest.

484
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 13: Seller, absolutely, So the vast majority of policies that we saw,

485
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 13: you know, that we saw bought under the risk insurance

486
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 13: space last year was with funeral policies, which are typically

487
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 13: much smaller policies, and then there were also one point

488
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 13: nine million credit life type policies and the remainder about

489
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 13: two point seven million, being the longer to risk policies.

490
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: I mean, funeral policies are so interesting. There's such an

491
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: enduring kind of feature of South African life. And you

492
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 3: made the point that quite many people have more than one,

493
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: and I sometimes wonder if at some point that might

494
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 3: lead to some kind of action or even pushback or something,

495
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: because I mean, you should really only need one.

496
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's a very interesting point, Stephen, and obviously something

497
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 13: that the industry grapples with those policies.

498
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 12: You know, it's such a cultural, you.

499
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 13: Know, almost peculiarity of South Africa where that funeral is

500
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 13: so broad and people tend to take out multiple funeral policies.

501
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 13: And look, we would definitely encourage more insurance rather than less,

502
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 13: but certainly it is important to seek advice because it

503
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 13: might well be possible to consolidate if you've got a

504
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 13: number of different policies consolidated in one bigger policy, one

505
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 13: more kind of comprehensive risk insurance policy get underwritten potentially

506
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 13: and you know, the client could pay lower premium, So

507
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 13: it is important to really look at that, you know,

508
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 13: in conjunction with a financial advisor.

509
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 3: We all know how difficult it is for people in

510
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 3: South Africa to save I mean, we know how many

511
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: people take money out of their pension the moment they can.

512
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: In the two part system, for example, there's sort of

513
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: more expensive policies that you buy to protect yourself from

514
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 3: something like dread, disease or death. How are those policies

515
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 3: doing in this current economy? Are people still putting money

516
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 3: into those? I mean, those are still I think some

517
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: of the issues that keep people awake at night, what

518
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 3: if this happens to me, what if I lose my

519
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: income for example?

520
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, absolutely, Stephen, that is just so important.

521
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 13: We definitely are seeing take up of that, but at

522
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 13: the same time, we're seeing lapses increase of those types

523
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 13: of policies. For the first time in three or four years,

524
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 13: we actually saw lapses coming down over the previous three

525
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 13: years and last year sadly, the lapses of longer term

526
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 13: recurring premium insurance policies did increase across the industry. So,

527
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 13: you know, in conjunction with the previous measures around the

528
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 13: insurance gap. It is just so important to think about

529
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 13: this in the context of financial advice and for clients

530
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 13: to hold on to cover.

531
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 12: And I know it's easier said than done. I know

532
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 12: we're on the.

533
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 13: Looming petrol price hike, the likes of which you haven't

534
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 13: seen in a while, and consumers will be squeezed. It

535
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 13: just makes it so important to, you know, really consider

536
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 13: your options in conjunction with proper advice and make sure

537
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 13: that you're not letting go of the wrong you know,

538
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 13: pieces of your financial planning puzzle.

539
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: Gareth, thanks so much. Gareth Friedlander is a member of

540
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: the Association for Saving and Investments South Africa Life and

541
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: Risk Board Committee. Ten minutes now to seven.

542
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: The Money Show Stephen Krutez is brought to you by

543
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: ABSCE Sponsorships, the proud sponsor of the Absurd kape Epic,

544
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails as.

545
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: A registersp.

546
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: Nine minutes now to seven.

547
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 8: So.

548
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 3: I don't know about you, but when I think of

549
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 3: people who are making market decisions, so are buying and

550
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: selling shares on that jay Z, who do you think of?

551
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: I tend to think of people who are kind of

552
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: my age or just a little bit older. I was

553
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: thinking of our regular market commentators. Some are a little younger.

554
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: Marco is here is a little younger than me. I suspect,

555
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: but probably most of them are kind of my generation

556
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: or maybe a little bit older. Some of them may

557
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: be about ten years younger than me. But it turns

558
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: out but actually the investor profile is changing in a

559
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: much younger group called gen Z are getting more involved

560
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: in investing at a younger age. Navitna Maharaj, the head

561
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: of Global Markets Retail Investments at Standard Bank Novina. Good evening,

562
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 3: Thanks for your time. So the difference between the gen

563
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: Z generation and other generations is there a big difference?

564
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: How much more interested in investing is gen Z?

565
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 7: Hie Steven.

566
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 14: So the gen Z the changes that we've seen from

567
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 14: a generation perspective is mainly due to the rise in

568
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 14: mobile technology, so the accessibility to the market now is

569
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 14: much more important accessible and then also from a cost

570
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 14: of transaction that's really reduced, which has reduced the barriers

571
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 14: for entry. And also the information age. I think this

572
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 14: generation has much more access to content and information through

573
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 14: social media, which has played a big role in terms

574
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 14: of this generation to be much more curious about stock investing,

575
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 14: where previously traditionally fifteen years ago, you would need to

576
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 14: spend time to listen to the news and a specific

577
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 14: time understand what the market is doing, call your stockbroker

578
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 14: via the telephone to make an investment.

579
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: I mean that technological change from having a stock broke,

580
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 3: it's now just doing it on your phone. That's probably

581
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: one of the things that's really driven this. It seems

582
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: renewed interest in.

583
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 14: Investing, no, one hundred percent if you see what the

584
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 14: rise of certain it's. I mean, using the technology now

585
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 14: is as easy as doing growth leads basically and buying

586
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 14: and selling shares, So that accessibility through your main banking

587
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 14: app and standalone apps has significantly made it accessible for

588
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 14: a wide spectrum of.

589
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 8: The generation most of us.

590
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: Well, let me speak for myself, my generation. I think

591
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: you know, the main reason I would invest is to

592
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 3: make money. I'm not particularly interested in what the company does.

593
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: I am from the intellectual point of view of will

594
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 3: they be a return on this? And I suppose there

595
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: might be a sort of moral dimension. But but my

596
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: main reason, if I'm honest with myself, is I'm investing

597
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 3: in share ABC because I wanted to make lots and

598
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: lots of money for me. I mean maybe for other people,

599
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: but ready for me and haven't There is it different

600
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 3: of for this generation. I mean there seems to be

601
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: more of a I don't know how you would describe it,

602
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: but kind of I want to be a part of something.

603
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: I use.

604
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 14: Maybe there's elements of trend, so I want to be

605
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 14: part of the trend and what's trending out there. So

606
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 14: that's also from a behavior perspective that we sometimes see

607
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 14: how they make the relevant investment decisions, So if any

608
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 14: influencer et cetera is doing this, then they want to

609
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 14: be part of it. The other element is some of

610
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 14: them actually get the behavior decisions are linked to a

611
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 14: specific like a brand type that you're familiar with, and

612
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 14: then they want to participate in that.

613
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 7: And then sometimes it's short.

614
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 14: Term thinking, so some of them are more three to

615
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 14: five year investment holders, where I think generational wealth goes

616
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 14: over more than five years from an investment perspective, So

617
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 14: some of that element from a perception perspective is probably

618
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 14: trend that kind of drives their investment behavior. But through education,

619
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 14: some of them get much better at looking at.

620
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: Long term is there a kind of I'm wearing Nike,

621
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: so I'm buying Nike kind of thing. You know, I'm

622
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: using an iPhone there for all that kind of thing.

623
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 14: Yeah, So they tend to be drawn into the tech

624
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 14: stocks or a specific brand, but they're learning to understand

625
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 14: the market a bit more and looking for diversification, which

626
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 14: kind of instruments like exchange traded funds play have played

627
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 14: a role in it where it's low risk, it's diversified,

628
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 14: have an investment manager that actually manages all of that index.

629
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 14: So you are seeing a mix in their portfolio.

630
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I suppose. I mean, look, as they get older,

631
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: it's going to be fascinating to see if this generation

632
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 3: just invests as other previous generations did, or if there

633
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: are changes I would imagine, I mean when you're young, Well,

634
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: when I was young, you thought everything was going to change,

635
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: it was going to be wonderful, and so you might

636
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 3: invest with a sense of optimism. I think, I mean,

637
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: I grew up in a time when it seemed the

638
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: world was very much getting better. I think I think,

639
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: you know, it was sort of the nine I don't

640
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: think it feels like that for the generation growing up now.

641
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 3: I think it might actually feel quite scary. But I mean,

642
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 3: do you get a sense then that people are looking

643
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 3: for shares that will do well in the future and

644
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 3: that would immediately take you to AI stocks and things

645
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: like that, rather than shares that I suppose you might

646
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: think is a share of the past, say retail or

647
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: something like that.

648
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 14: So they are looking at the growth stocks. And obviously

649
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 14: they come from a generation where it's technology kind of driven,

650
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 14: so they're very familiar with certain concepts already where there's

651
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 14: artificial intelligence or Nvidia and chip making or you know,

652
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 14: some of the AI other stocks for Microsoft etca. So

653
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 14: they are familiar with the concepts with the other generations

654
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 14: in terms of understanding where AI is probably going to

655
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 14: be in the few it's certain, it's certainly a bit

656
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 14: more unknown.

657
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 7: So that kind of drives.

658
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 14: Them because they're more familiar in terms of certain off

659
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 14: the growth driven sectors, specifically technology and other kind of brands.

660
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 14: They understand that that possibly is an opportunity for their

661
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 14: portfolio to grow in.

662
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 3: It's fascinating. Nadna Maharas, thank you, Head of Global Markets

663
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 3: Retail Investments at Standard Bank of Voice. Not coming on

664
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: this issue sort of difference in generational investing on oh

665
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: seven two, seven O two one, seven o two, Good Evenings.

666
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 15: Then my son started investing the stock markets directly when

667
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 15: he was in grade ten, thanks to mobile technology and

668
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 15: platforms like you could Switch are youth friendly.

669
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 3: I wish I could have started so early. That's fascinating. Actually,

670
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: I mean the idea of investing would not have entered

671
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: my head in grade ten. I mean, all I want

672
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: to know is if my school is going to win

673
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: the next rugby match. I mean, I just wasn't thinking

674
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 3: further than kind of the weekend. So the idea of

675
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 3: doing that in grade ten really is astonishing. You're kind

676
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 3: of fifteen. In grade ten, very few people are thinking

677
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: that far ahead. And yet we've heard time and time

678
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 3: again how for some people, investing is kind of part

679
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 3: of the daily life, you know, it's just part of

680
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 3: what you do living and breathing. For some people, it's

681
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: really such an interesting change and an interesting dynamic. We'll

682
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,479
Speaker 3: talk renewable energy and trade and duties in a moment

683
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 3: with The Money Show at seven o'clock.

684
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 9: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

685
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 9: oh two.

686
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: Let's walk lit all The Money Show with Stephen Curtis

687
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 3: is brought to you by Abscess Sponsorships, proud sponsor of

688
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 3: the Cape Epic, celebrating twenty years of taking it to

689
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 3: the trails. Is a registered FSP. Eight minutes after seven, Well,

690
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 3: we'll obviously be speaking to Aya Bonda Klawe. He's the

691
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: Chief Commissioner at the International Trade Administration Commissioner in a moment,

692
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: looks like there will be an increase in some duties

693
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: on some of the parts, some of the equipment used

694
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 3: to create renewable power. To generate renewable power, we'll just

695
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: get an understanding. It's not kind of all one way.

696
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: I must just stress, but we'll get a deeper understanding

697
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: of that in a moment. Rotendo and Dingui, Professor Hingwin Dingui,

698
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 3: the founding director at Drive Africa Advisory. He'll be in

699
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 3: to talk us through what's happening on our content. And

700
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: then Warren Ingram in personal Finance tonight, the retirement lessons

701
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 3: you can't afford to ignore. Good hear from you A

702
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: double one double A three oh seven oh two two

703
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 3: one four four six o five sixty seven what Stephen.

704
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 8: On seven two seven oh two one.

705
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 3: Seven your tails from the petrol cues tonight, good evening, Stephen.

706
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 11: So I am in Varbatrant in Pretoria and the astron

707
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 11: in Barbartrant has coltons at every pump since the afternoon,

708
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 11: so they're not giving anyone any fuel.

709
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 4: But I beat you tomorrow there will be fuel.

710
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 3: You old cynic you look. I mean, I sometimes say

711
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 3: to people, you know, we're a cynical country in a

712
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 3: cynical time, and we have absolutely every right to be

713
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 3: talking of petrol. By the way, Uber on the sidelines

714
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 3: of the investment conference talking about the five billion rand

715
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: they're going to invest in South Africa over the next

716
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: three years. I think some of that will be deals

717
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 3: to help people buy cars so they can operate the cars,

718
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: things like that, offering that kind of finance. It does also, though,

719
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: just remind me, and this petrol moment, this fuel moment

720
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: reminds me too of how the kind of car ownership

721
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 3: model will change. And you may remember on Friday night

722
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: were speaking to someone who started a fascinating business or

723
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: fractional ownership of cars. If you want a fancy car

724
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 3: for the weekend, you go to him, but he's also

725
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 3: offering other cars for different times. And the idea is

726
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: you might own a car when you're not using it.

727
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 3: You put it on the app, people use it. It's

728
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: a bit like having a car that you sort of

729
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 3: let out to an uber driver. I know people who've

730
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: done that, and then you basically get the car back

731
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 3: when you want it, and so you have a fractional

732
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 3: ownership model. And I think Uber maybe are making a

733
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: bit of a gibbet on that bit of a punt, thinking, actually,

734
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: people aren't all going to own a car all the time.

735
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 3: There'll be a lot more space for ubers in those moments,

736
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: a lot more space for different kind of ownership models.

737
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 3: And I wonder how that is going to play out.

738
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 3: I think a lot of us I kind of no,

739
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 3: I want my car. I want my house with a

740
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 3: little patch of land. But there is there are other

741
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: ways to live. You know. You can live in a

742
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 3: block of flats and you can sort of rent a

743
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 3: car when you want it, or you can have a

744
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 3: fractional ownership of a car, or you can uber. Plenty

745
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 3: of people do that for various reasons. Your thoughts please,

746
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 3: oh seven two seven O two one seven two. That's

747
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 3: on the six to eight pm our International Trade Administration

748
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: Commission now seems to be recommending that some duties on

749
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: some of the parts used to build renewable power generation

750
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: units be increased. They're also recommending that certain text rebates

751
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 3: for manufacturing solar products be removed when our solar manufacturing

752
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 3: capacity grows to a particular level. Ayabonakauer is the chief

753
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: commissioner at I Tech. Chief Commissioner, Good evening. I hope

754
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: I don't catch you in a petrol queue tonight. I

755
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 3: think many people are trying to go renewable as fast

756
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 3: as they can. I mean, particularly with Eskim doing what

757
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 3: Eskim's doing. What are you suggesting for the equipment you

758
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 3: need to build that capacity?

759
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 16: Good evening to you, Stephen, and good evening to your listeners.

760
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 16: I must assure you I tried to fill up a

761
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 16: bit earlier, so as I was driving home this evening,

762
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 16: I managed to catch sight of some of the very

763
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 16: long queue. So I certainly commiserate with many of those

764
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 16: who find themselves in the queues tonight. But indeed, the

765
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 16: gazette we issued on Friday is part of a review

766
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 16: that had been triggered by Ministerial directors towards the earlier

767
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 16: parts of last year and I think we've now arrived

768
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 16: at the stage where we've issued some preliminary findings following

769
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 16: evidence gathering, a form of verification to try and get

770
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 16: a sense in the first instance, of what are these

771
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 16: components pieces, nuts and bolts literally that go into all

772
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 16: manner of renewable technologies and systems that South Africa has

773
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 16: a capability. And I think the Gazette is really lifting

774
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 16: up whether those are particular to solar, wind, battery, energy

775
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 16: storage and so on, and even what is called balance

776
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 16: of plants, so you're wiring your inverters, transformers and so on,

777
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 16: where over time we've developed the capability. So we've got

778
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 16: a few proposals here, one of these those that you've

779
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 16: mentioned of raising DUTs where we have some of this

780
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 16: capability on hand to their bound rates, and I think

781
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 16: it's still a preliminary finding at the stage. But also

782
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 16: in relation to the rebate, I think the listeners would

783
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 16: know that a few years ago, the Commission investigated and

784
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 16: the Executive Authorities approved a tariff of ten percent on solar,

785
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,439
Speaker 16: which was accompanied by a rebate because we didn't want

786
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 16: to penalize South Africans, you and me, or even project

787
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 16: owners for their not being enough capability to supply solar

788
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 16: projects and even household soda. And we're now saying that

789
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 16: any consideration of the discontinuation of that rebate has to

790
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 16: be accompanied by a significant ramp up of the ability

791
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 16: to supply, rather than just discontinuing it and effectively having

792
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 16: a cost raising effect on many of those who may

793
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 16: wished to buy a sola.

794
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean, obviously, I think many people. I think

795
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 3: if you ask any South African who's currently on ESKIM,

796
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: do you want to go renewable, they he'll say yes.

797
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: And every company too, probably more would.

798
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 16: Have said so a few years ago. But I think

799
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 16: the situation is a lot better.

800
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 3: No, sure, but the cost of it is so expensive

801
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: as issue. No, indeed, I realized that with trade it's

802
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: very difficult to simplify things. But if the preliminary findings

803
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,479
Speaker 3: that you've made are implemented, what do you expect then

804
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 3: it would be more expensive to get the equipment you

805
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 3: need to generate renewable power. Would that be a consequence, Well.

806
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 16: I think it would depend Stephen, So it would depend

807
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 16: on many other factors. But a textbook reading, which is

808
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 16: often not a very helpful one is that if there

809
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 16: is full pass through on the duties on the part

810
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 16: of many importers, that this may also serve to raise

811
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 16: the price of.

812
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 8: Even imported material.

813
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 16: I think we must also accept Stephen that much of

814
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 16: the pricing we've also seen in many renewable systems and

815
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 16: components have been subject to artificially low prices on the

816
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 16: back of overcapacity in many of the origin countries of

817
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 16: some of these imports. And so in a sense one

818
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 16: might say you cannot avoid some marginal lift in pricing.

819
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 16: But this is also a very competitive landscape, and so

820
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 16: you're likely to find to varying degrees absorption of the

821
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 16: tariff on the part of some of the distributors' importers

822
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 16: and even some of the domestic producers. But I think

823
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 16: we need to factor into the mix many considerations beyond

824
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 16: just the prices of lead times, even of repair and

825
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 16: maintenance components. You may have an inverter in your home that,

826
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 16: if it needs to be serviced, may, on the back

827
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 16: of some of the conflict we see, be subject to

828
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 16: massive lead times for you to get some of the

829
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 16: parts you need, if you're having to wait for those

830
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 16: to be put on a boat in order to come here.

831
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 16: So in a way, this is also about building the

832
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 16: resilience of our own domestic supply base to be able

833
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 16: as we transision, an important transition that all of us

834
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 16: are committed to that as we transition, we're able to

835
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 16: balance the mix of the sources of the supply for

836
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 16: many of these components that have become very much a

837
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 16: part of our lives.

838
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 8: Now.

839
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: You talk about as some of the countries that produce this,

840
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 3: the supplying countries, and maybe we should talk about what

841
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: we're talking about, which is China. Their capacity has been growing.

842
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 3: I think it was thirty percent a year. A year ago,

843
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: they have eighty percent of world solar equipment manufacturing capacity.

844
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 3: I have to say, I worry that we're kind of,

845
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 3: you know, throwing water into the wind our industry. Will

846
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: I mean, could our industry really grow to provide products

847
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 3: that are cheaper than they can? Won't they just absorb

848
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 3: the cost and then what have we gained from that?

849
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 7: Well?

850
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 16: I mean, this is the point I was raising, Stephen,

851
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 16: that the extent of competition in this market may mean

852
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 16: significant cost absorption, but really the behavioral response we envisage

853
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 16: in this instance is for some of that cutting edge technology,

854
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 16: which is not only.

855
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 6: Just about ramping up capacity.

856
00:46:54,840 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 16: I think Chinese producers have invested considerably along the entire chain.

857
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 16: If you take, for argument's sake, some of the intermediate

858
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 16: inputs of photosilicon, where the Chinese have become super dominant,

859
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 16: you do want some of that capability to be offshore

860
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 16: to South Africa for at least last mile assembly. If

861
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 16: you look at the cells themselves, those are still coming

862
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 16: in at very very low duties or load duties at all.

863
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 16: What we're trying to incentivize here is some acquisition of

864
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 16: the capabilities in downstream assembly of some of these activities.

865
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 16: One as a mechanism to diversify where it is that

866
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 16: we source them from in an increasingly hostile world. But

867
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 16: second to that, in line with our prevailing policy which

868
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 16: has been around since two thousand and three. If you

869
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 16: think of the White Paper on renewable energy, that you

870
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 16: cannot have this transition not being accompanied by some industrial

871
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 16: articulations in areas that we already have capability to produce.

872
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 16: So it's not just the solar panels themselves, Steven, there

873
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 16: are areas where we do have have cost competitive production.

874
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 8: In South Africa.

875
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 16: If you think of a balance of plant if you

876
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 16: think of some of the other incidental components which we

877
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 16: list out in the Gazette in considerable details. And similarly,

878
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 16: as you would imagine, the Gazette is also lifting up

879
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 16: further upstream some of the raw material and resource requirements

880
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 16: that you might have. So let me give you an example.

881
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 16: If you're talking about kind of threaded screws, bolts, nuts,

882
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 16: aluminium alloys, washers, motors and DC generators, lamp holders, sockets,

883
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 16: we've already had a capability in those products for many years,

884
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 16: and give or take a few kind of scents or

885
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 16: rands are relatively cost competitive as it relates to those products.

886
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 16: But I think it's not just about solar. If you

887
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 16: take the wind value chain, for instance, many of our

888
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 16: producers have solely only been locked into the tower production,

889
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 16: and so we start to think through how do we

890
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 16: use our trade instruments to incentivize the acquisition of capabilities

891
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 16: and some of the more relatively more complex parts system components,

892
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 16: the components that go into a nassole or a rotor

893
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 16: blade and all of those, And of course it's not

894
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 16: going to happen overnight. You want to transision, but you

895
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 16: also want to lock in imbalance of plant, some demand

896
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 16: profile for your existing producers, or else we're going to

897
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 16: end up importing these things lockstock and bowl.

898
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: But this really does require the production here to grow.

899
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 3: There needs to be lots of demand for it. I mean,

900
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 3: I realized obviously duties to create that demand we once had.

901
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we ended up going down to

902
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 3: just one producer of solar pads for a while. I

903
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 3: think they're three now you might have bore up to

904
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 3: date figures than nine two. I mean, you really need

905
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 3: the demand. If the demand is there, then this doesn't

906
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 3: become a problem.

907
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 16: Indeed, I'm one hundred percent with you then, and I

908
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 16: think that that's probably where the renewable energy independent power

909
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 16: Produce program has probably made, if we are to be candid,

910
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 16: some tactical errors that we're learning from, which is why, Stephen,

911
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 16: one of the preliminary findings we're making here is to say,

912
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 16: as it relates to fully assembled panels, single access trackers, inverters, fasteners,

913
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 16: and tower sections, we think that these ought to be

914
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 16: designated for local procurement and local content in line with

915
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 16: the Procurement Act twenty eight of twenty twenty four. And

916
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 16: we understand the regulations in line with Section twenty of

917
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 16: that Act are set to be imminently published and we

918
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 16: certainly hope on the back of our verified capability. So

919
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 16: we've gone out got in a sense, as you correctly say,

920
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 16: we've lost a lot of capability in soda. But there

921
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 16: are instances if you look at mounted trackers, if you

922
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 16: look at single access trackers, inverters fastness, where you actually

923
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 16: have a considerable amount of capability, And so the question

924
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 16: mark is do you want to lose more of that

925
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 16: by not ear marking at least the demand that the

926
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 16: public sector has some control over. And then, of course

927
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 16: and so doing also begin to have a discussion of

928
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 16: the private sector about to what extent do they make

929
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 16: use in some of these identified products of the domestic capability.

930
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 3: Hi a Buona Pawer, thank you very much in the

931
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 3: Chief Commission at the International Trade Administration Commission. Such an

932
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 3: interesting conversation twenty one minutes after seven.

933
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 14: Too Many shows African Business Focus.

934
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 3: Professor Rottendo and Dingui is the founding director of trib

935
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 3: Africa Advisory and author of the book Rumble in the

936
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 3: Jungle Reloaded Houses. Rottendo, you're talking about Ken you earlier

937
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,479
Speaker 3: on the program. Actually they're looking at a big, rare

938
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: earth site.

939
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 8: A grieving to your listener here.

940
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 17: So the investment, Steven is actually about sixty billion US

941
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 17: dollars and it's a rare website. I think the province

942
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 17: of Mirror and the key thing about the Steven is

943
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 17: obviously quite keep here and more important people Africa in

944
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 17: terms of the whole industrializations. Though in that he has

945
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 17: tried to diversify with regards to you know, from agriculture.

946
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 17: They're trying to invest in mining. They've never been retting

947
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 17: known as a mining place. Both the USA and China

948
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 17: are quite interested with regards to competing in the big

949
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 17: the tender forage the mineral.

950
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 8: Stephen, and I'm just taking you back to high school days.

951
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 17: A neobium, thorium, white, trium and all of these are

952
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 17: key for the tonics and the complete energy. But I

953
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 17: think the key thing, yes, even part of the tender

954
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 17: the clently specified other and above financial capacity, there has

955
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 17: to be a local processing plant included. And why is

956
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 17: this so important, Steven, Because the whole thing of African

957
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 17: countries realizing that from a beneficiation perspective, they actually have

958
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 17: to highlight two multinationals people invest in externality into the

959
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 17: African continents as well as the local players to focus

960
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 17: in terms of manufacturing at the source, to create jobs,

961
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 17: to keep the economy and driving realization. So quite a

962
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 17: great step for FORKIA and obviously maybe the two biggest

963
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 17: economy of the world participating.

964
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 8: Is nothing wrong with that.

965
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 17: So it's hopefully turns out and the and the actual

966
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 17: project kicks off.

967
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 8: But sixty two brilliant is not a small figure to play.

968
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 3: With, No, it can be fascinating. You watch that play out.

969
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 3: World Trade Organization talks they were in run there they

970
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: ended early because they just can't agree. I mean, that's

971
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 3: never good for global trade. But global trade, as we

972
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: know is quite complex at the moment.

973
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 8: Global train is quite complex.

974
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 17: Obviously, the geopolitics obviously and the geoeconomics are quite intertwined.

975
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 8: And more specifically still but obviously.

976
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 17: What's happening with the UH the straight ups, that's also

977
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 17: complicated things. The digital landscape has always been quite complicated

978
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 17: by its nature, and there had sixty six countries that

979
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 17: make up the World's Trade Organization.

980
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 8: I mean it's been a one day and two kiers

981
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 8: that they failed to agree on.

982
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 17: The big one was with regards to to to stopping

983
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,280
Speaker 17: the band of the first world countries like the US

984
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 17: wanted there to to stop the band with regards to

985
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 17: people actually been in charged texts when importing digital products

986
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 17: from First world countries. So Brazil and India one of

987
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 17: the two of the key countries that stood out and said, look, guys,

988
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 17: it's a bit and fair for us. We can actually

989
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 17: make money out of Texas, which is a justified point

990
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 17: because the kind of products that are coming from a

991
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 17: digital perspective are downloads. Still, you think of your iPhone,

992
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 17: you think of your your Spotify, et cetera, et cetera.

993
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 17: So the size of the quantum of the digital trade

994
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 17: of the African Netscape student at the moment is about

995
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 17: one hundred and eighty billion.

996
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 8: That's the size of the e commerce market by totally

997
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 8: Pote expecting to be about three hundred billion US dollars.

998
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 17: So you can actually realize it's actually a big chunk

999
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 17: of opportunity or the African continent. So they heat a hockey.

1000
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 17: The hard place in terms of failing to agree. The

1001
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 17: other area was around agriculture. But the big place I

1002
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 17: was around this and obviously with where the world is

1003
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 17: right now still in terms of protection is in terms

1004
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 17: of the politics, it is a lot a lot of complexity,

1005
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 17: so they're going to probably have to re visit this

1006
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 17: again and see what's the best way out.

1007
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 8: So it's not only affected in Africa.

1008
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 16: UH.

1009
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 17: And it's interesting that Brazil is taking the need of

1010
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 17: the betting in mind. They're obviously quite a key component

1011
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 17: of the bricks components. So it's you can see the

1012
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 17: geopolitics that are going to play difference in the world

1013
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 17: in one way.

1014
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 8: Or the other.

1015
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: And Bikinna Fossil they want their brewery and they want

1016
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:25,919
Speaker 3: it now.

1017
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 17: They want they're brewied, and I want it now, and

1018
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 17: I think the positive thing. Obviously we know of the

1019
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 17: from a political perspective what's happened in Pekina Faso, but

1020
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 17: I think from an economic perspective, they they're also trying

1021
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 17: to diversify from mining. Them in Pekina Faso as they

1022
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 17: invested in the mining sector for a long time. They

1023
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 17: they've invested, they've given the go ahead, the president is

1024
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 17: given the go ahead from an age Hector eh hector

1025
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 17: a brewery and beverage plant. UH and the and the

1026
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 17: and the reason for this is they want to diversify

1027
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 17: the scene of tunity with regards to not just rely

1028
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 17: on gold. That one of their biggest exports is gold.

1029
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 17: And they're just an opportunity in terms of creating jobs

1030
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 17: employment by having an eight heater brewery and beverage plant.

1031
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 17: The degree has been given and against Hiven, it's a

1032
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 17: step in the right way to the Kenya story in

1033
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 17: terms of it's it's been legislated, there's policy around it

1034
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 17: and hopefully to be left and certain by both the

1035
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 17: local investors and international investors.

1036
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 8: But otherwise it's a step in the right direction.

1037
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 3: And Cleopatra, I mean, I always want to say the

1038
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 3: name Anthony after Clear Patra. I couldn't tell you why.

1039
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 3: There's a big, immersive kind of exhibition that's exploring her legend.

1040
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 3: I mean it's one of those named Clear Patra. Everyone

1041
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 3: kind of evokes ancient Egypt.

1042
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 17: The ancient Egypt, indeed, and obviously she's I think her

1043
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 17: story is required with Alexander the Great, so the last

1044
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 17: feed of Egypt. She reales for two decades and for

1045
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 17: the last two thousand the years. People have always been

1046
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 17: fascinated around the story what has been put together. It's

1047
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 17: a museum, but it's a digitally in clime museum. I

1048
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 17: think it covers three thousand square meters through nine intellective

1049
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 17: intellective galleries and really brings the story of your Patra

1050
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 17: with a mixture of the real architecture or artifacts that

1051
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 17: we're involved in terms of rare she was based in

1052
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 17: the history of that, but there's a whole digital story

1053
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 17: around it. So virtual reality you get the whole glass

1054
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 17: experience in terms of being.

1055
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 8: Of view, the whole.

1056
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 17: Story and experiencing not only the artifacts in terms of

1057
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 17: touch and feel, but the whole storyline from a digital perspective.

1058
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 17: So it's a beautiful combination of technology and art and

1059
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 17: history with Egypt, which is obviously got a beautiful story

1060
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 17: temps of the city of Alexandria, and it's brought all

1061
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 17: together and bought Egypt, Europe and even Spain now coming

1062
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 17: on board. And I think today's even two hundred thousand

1063
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 17: people have visited the museum and they're great holy time

1064
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 17: to see some other countries besides the UK and.

1065
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 8: Spain.

1066
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 17: So it's a nice Affrican's story being exported and it's

1067
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 17: always good to hear about in terms of what we're

1068
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 17: down there.

1069
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 3: Rotundo, thanks so much, Professor Rotundo and Dingre. He's founding

1070
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 3: director at trib Africa Advisory and author of the book

1071
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: Rumble in the Jungle.

1072
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: Reloaded Personal Finance with Warren Ingram.

1073
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 3: Twenty five minutes now to eighth the time. Warren Ingram,

1074
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 3: as you know, is the financial advisor and co founder

1075
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 3: of Galileo Capital and our subject tonight, Warren is the

1076
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 3: retirement lessons. You can't afford to ignore, Warren in in

1077
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 3: a way, this really encapsulates a good moment to sort

1078
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 3: of encapsulate all the things that we've been learning about.

1079
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: But there's no finance for so long, and what the

1080
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 3: point of it really is?

1081
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 18: Absolutely right, Stephen, and I think it's a good time

1082
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 18: to chat about it because the world is crazy right now,

1083
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 18: and I think a lot of people are unsettled about

1084
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 18: their investments. And for those of us that are are

1085
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 18: still working and contributing to our savings and our investments,

1086
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 18: it's very unsettling. But for people who are retired, you

1087
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 18: know that discontent goes up a lot because you're watching

1088
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 18: your investments go down at a time.

1089
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 19: When you need to draw from them. So I think

1090
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 19: it's a very good time to chat about this, Okay.

1091
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 19: So the issue really is longevity, how long you actually

1092
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 19: live for, and this rarely is about how you make

1093
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 19: sure that when the time finally comes not to retire

1094
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 19: the other worst time, that things are ready for that.

1095
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 19: So this is about how much money you have and

1096
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 19: where you are in your retirement at that point. In

1097
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 19: other words, it's not about the first year of retirement. No,

1098
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 19: that's absolutely right.

1099
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 18: And I think when you talk to people and you

1100
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 18: say to someone at age fifty or fifty five, that

1101
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 18: you know, we should probably plan, you know, for your

1102
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 18: life to run out at somewhere aunt age one hundred,

1103
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 18: usually they sort of smile at you as if you're

1104
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 18: a little bit crazy and you know, your your heads

1105
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 18: in the clouds. But it is a reality that there

1106
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 18: are lots of people, you know, all around the world

1107
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 18: and in South Africa that you know that comfortably lived

1108
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 18: to their late eighties early nineties, And you know, if

1109
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 18: you're hitting retirement at sixty five and thinking, well, I've

1110
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 18: probably got ten or fifteen years of life left, unfortunately,

1111
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 18: you're you're likely to be wrong. And the worst thing

1112
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 18: that could happen in a situation like that is that

1113
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 18: you spend aggressively in the early part of your retirement

1114
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 18: and and you know, not worry too much about later

1115
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 18: in life, and then you know your money runs out,

1116
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 18: you know, at a time when you can't really do

1117
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 18: anything about it. So so I just want to say,

1118
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 18: for a lot of people, just go and you know,

1119
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 18: google longevity in South Africa, you know, going, and especially

1120
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 18: if you do have access to private healthcare. I think

1121
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 18: longevity somewhere around age eighty eight for a lot of people.

1122
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 18: And so you've got to make sure that you've done

1123
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 18: your planning correctly. And as you say, it's not about

1124
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 18: year one, it's about year twenty and twenty five of

1125
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 18: your retirement.

1126
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 3: So when people are planning for retirement, now, what are

1127
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 3: they planning for? What length of time are they planning for?

1128
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 3: I mean they're not planning for ten years obviously, and

1129
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 3: I think very few of us would retire and think, well,

1130
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to plan for forty.

1131
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 18: I think the average retirement plan sort of you know,

1132
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 18: says twenty or twenty five years of retirement, and I

1133
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 18: think that's wrong. I think we should be planning for

1134
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 18: at least thirty five years of retirement. And if you

1135
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 18: consider that, you know, we might start work at twenty

1136
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 18: or twenty three, let's say, and you might work for

1137
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 18: thirty or thirty five years. That means your retired life

1138
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 18: could be as long as your working life. And the

1139
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 18: trick around this is, you know, you only have that

1140
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 18: work time to build up all the money you need

1141
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 18: to look after yourself later in life. So so it

1142
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 18: is a real concern, this longevity. I mean, it's a

1143
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 18: real benefit. I'm not you know not. You know, it's

1144
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 18: great that you know, science is helping us live better

1145
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 18: and live longer, but planning wise, we should be saying

1146
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 18: to ourselves, is there any way I can work from

1147
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 18: you know, age sixty five to seventy so that you know,

1148
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 18: I'll work that extra time and I don't have to

1149
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 18: provide for the income for that that sort of time.

1150
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 18: So almost it's a double benefit. If you can work

1151
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 18: an extra five years, it's it's five years of saving,

1152
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 18: but it's also five years that you don't have to

1153
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 18: fund with with your savings.

1154
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 2: So it's a real thing.

1155
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 18: I think we should we should be working longer and

1156
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 18: planning that we were going to you know, you know,

1157
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 18: get to the end of life at somewhere around age

1158
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 18: one hundred.

1159
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 3: For most of us, it's the last ten years when

1160
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: you have the real problem if you haven't planned for

1161
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: that last ten years. And also I suppose your costs

1162
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 3: are going up to in some ways.

1163
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 18: Yeah, I think, you know, there's this misnoma that you know,

1164
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 18: life gets cheaper as you get older, and you know,

1165
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 18: and I think that's not true. I think healthcare costs

1166
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 18: become a much bigger part of life as you you know,

1167
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 18: as you get into a late seventies and early eighties,

1168
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 18: and it doesn't matter if you've got a very good

1169
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 18: medical aid, they're still going to be costs that you

1170
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 18: are going to incur that you have to pay out

1171
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 18: of pocket. And so you know, early in your retired

1172
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 18: life you can always make a change that can that

1173
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 18: can help you later. In other words, you can get

1174
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 18: a part time gig, you know, doing some work, or

1175
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 18: you can reduce your expenses and you know, make a

1176
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 18: big impact on your retired life later. But if you

1177
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 18: realize only you know at age seventy eight that actually

1178
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 18: your your money's going to run out at age eighty five,

1179
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 18: so suddenly you don't have a lot of scope to

1180
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 18: make changes so that last ten years. You're quite right, Stephen,

1181
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 18: I think it's you know, if you haven't got your

1182
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 18: planning right, that that last ten years becomes a desperate

1183
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 18: situation and not many things you can do to address

1184
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 18: the problem.

1185
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 3: So once you've retired, say you retire at sixty five

1186
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 3: or seventy, right, how can you make sure that your

1187
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 3: money is working as hard in that period than it

1188
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 3: was before because you need to draw into it. I

1189
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 3: suppose though you also it should be at the peak

1190
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 3: that it will ever be, so you have more money invested,

1191
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 3: so there should be a higher return, but you are

1192
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 3: beginning to draw down on it.

1193
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 2: Look at you. That's that's a fantastic point.

1194
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 18: And that's the one that the big sort of pension

1195
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 18: funds and retirement fund managers don't always get around around

1196
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 18: people at the early stage of retirement. Is if you're

1197
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 18: planning that you're going to live off your investments for

1198
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 18: thirty five years, that by any definition is called the

1199
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 18: very long term, and that means you should have a

1200
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 18: very high exposure to growth assets like shares and property

1201
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,439
Speaker 18: companies and the like. And a lot of the time,

1202
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 18: you know, people get advised to hit retirement with very

1203
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 18: conservative portfolios, where they get told, you know, you can't

1204
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 18: afford to take losses, you know, you need to protect

1205
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 18: what you've got, And I understand the emotion side of that,

1206
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 18: but the truth is that the cost of living is

1207
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 18: your biggest enemy during retirement. It's not markets going up

1208
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 18: or down. Markets do that all the time, and they've

1209
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 18: done it for centuries and I'm sure they'll do it

1210
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 18: for the.

1211
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 2: Next few centuries.

1212
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 18: So the one reality is that your cost of living

1213
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 18: will go up every single year. And if you don't

1214
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 18: have enough exposure to growth assets to give you the

1215
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 18: growth ahead of the cost of living escalations, then you're

1216
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 18: going to find yourself in a position where you might

1217
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 18: you might have more money in rand terms, but the

1218
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 18: buying power of that money is absolutely eroded. And so

1219
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 18: I think that that's the thing that people, you know,

1220
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 18: get wrong at retirement is they think I need to

1221
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 18: scale down my investment objectives and be conservative and cautious

1222
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 18: with my money, and I think it's a big mistake.

1223
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 18: I'm also not saying that this is the time to

1224
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 18: roll the dice, as if you're in a casino and

1225
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 18: you take ridiculous risk that you know that's no good either,

1226
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 18: because you can't afford to recover from you know, catastrophic glasses.

1227
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 18: But you should be responsible and an objective with your money,

1228
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 18: and I think somewhere around sixty five to you know,

1229
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 18: you know, seventy five percent of your investment should be

1230
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 18: in growth assets. You know, it certainly shouldn't be below

1231
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 18: fifty percent. You know, I think that's almost recklessly conservative.

1232
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 18: If there's a phrase like.

1233
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 3: That, lifestyle costs as you retire. Now, I mean I

1234
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 3: still just think of how much money children cost. But

1235
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 3: after that you kind of think, well, actually, as I

1236
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 3: get older, I will spend less money. I won't be

1237
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 3: quite as expensive to myself, and therefore my lifestyle costs

1238
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 3: will go down once I've stopped working. Does it work

1239
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 3: like that?

1240
01:06:55,400 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 18: I think that's almost hogwash in truth. Sometimes I see

1241
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 18: financial planners talking about something called a replacement ratio, where

1242
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 18: they'll say, you know, if you were earning one hundred thousand,

1243
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 18: you know before retirement, you can work on a replacement

1244
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 18: ratio of seventy five percent. In other words, you know,

1245
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 18: instead of spending one hundred thousand, you're now going to

1246
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 18: spend only seventy five thousand and I just don't think

1247
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 18: that that's true at all. My experience is that when

1248
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 18: people are in the very early stages of their retirement,

1249
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 18: they are generally in very good health. They've got time,

1250
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 18: they've got energy, and now they've got motivation to go

1251
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 18: and do all the things that they didn't have the

1252
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 18: time to do when they were working. And so that means,

1253
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 18: you know, potentially you know, more travel and maybe you

1254
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 18: know more more entertainment and eating out and things that

1255
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 18: you couldn't get to when you had to go to work,

1256
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 18: you know, early on a Monday. And so in my

1257
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 18: experience that you could actually find that you end up

1258
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 18: spending a little bit more than you did as a

1259
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 18: working person in the first few years of your retirement.

1260
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 18: And then the other thing we get told is that

1261
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 18: late in life, when you're you know, seventy eight or eighty,

1262
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 18: you're probably not traveling very much. You know, you probably

1263
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 18: don't eat out as much, and you're a bit more homebound.

1264
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,759
Speaker 18: That certainly seems to be the case. However, the medical

1265
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 18: costs that we chatted about earlier do become a much

1266
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 18: bigger factor, and so I think when we plan for retirements,

1267
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 18: we should be saying that you know what you were

1268
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 18: spending in the last few years of retirement, you should

1269
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 18: maintain that as your projection going forward.

1270
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 2: So the only thing that I.

1271
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 18: Would take out of my projected lifestyle costs would be

1272
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 18: something like university education costs for children, or perhaps you

1273
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 18: had your last couple of bindary payments and you know

1274
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 18: that that's not going to repeat. But other than that,

1275
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 18: all of the last style costs that you had before,

1276
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 18: I would maintain them because I think you know, the

1277
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 18: mix of your costs might change, but absolutely you are

1278
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 18: going to spend what you spent in your pre retired life.

1279
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 3: We're talking to Warren Ingram this evening on personal finance.

1280
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 3: There retirement lessons you can't afford to ignore. Are your

1281
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 3: questions for Warren O double one double A three seven

1282
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 3: two two one four six O five six seven and

1283
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 3: of course voice notes on seven two seven two one

1284
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 3: seven two. The other thing, Warren, is that we have

1285
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 3: a certain amount of money, and you might think, well,

1286
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 3: over the last ten years, my investment trajectory has been

1287
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 3: going up, and this is what I ended up with,

1288
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 3: and if I even out inflation over the next thirty years,

1289
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 3: it will be that. But I imagine they could also

1290
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 3: be something that happens to those investments, And a really

1291
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 3: good example is what's happened to the JC SIN since

1292
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 3: the start of Donald Trump's Ranian adventure.

1293
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 18: Absolutely, and the scary thing for a type people when

1294
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 18: you see big market moves like we've had now, is

1295
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 18: that you're you're drawing money from your investment every month.

1296
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 18: And it sounds like an obvious point, but the practice

1297
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 18: is that, let's say you've got, just to keep a

1298
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 18: number simple, you've got a ten million round portfolio and

1299
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 18: every single month you might be selling a few units

1300
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 18: of your unit trust to fund your income. And if

1301
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 18: your ten million round portfolio drops by fifteen percent, then

1302
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 18: you find yourself in a position where you've got an

1303
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 18: eight and a half million round portfolio, but you're still

1304
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 18: drawing the same amount of rands every month. And so

1305
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 18: you know, if you started your the year, let's say,

1306
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 18: drawing five percent, you might find that halfway through the

1307
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 18: year you're now drawing seven or eight percent. You know,

1308
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 18: if there's a very big market drop, and the balancing

1309
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 18: act you've got to strike here is it's good and

1310
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 18: it's part of the plan that you are going to

1311
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 18: draw from your investments. But now you've got this problem

1312
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 18: of drawing from investments after they've taken a big knock

1313
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 18: and drawing a bigger percentage just simply the mass works

1314
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 18: out like that, and so your capital might not get

1315
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 18: the chance to recover. And so that's where we find

1316
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 18: this thing that's called sequence risk. It's about when you

1317
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 18: draw the money out of your investments and at what

1318
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 18: point do.

1319
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 2: You do that.

1320
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 18: And if people don't get that planning right, for planning

1321
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 18: for these big market drops during their retired lives, it

1322
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,440
Speaker 18: can have quite a big detrimental impact on their investments

1323
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 18: over the thirty or thirty five years that we're talking about.

1324
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 3: So it would make sense to plan so you might

1325
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 3: have I mean, and you've told us before about having

1326
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 3: your I think it's the retirement number. In other words,

1327
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 3: what is the number at which you feel you can retire.

1328
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 3: You actually need to have more than that to take

1329
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,919
Speaker 3: into account for this. So yes, there might be an upside.

1330
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 3: I mean, growth can surprise too, as we've seen last year,

1331
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 3: but you actually have to prepare the other way. You

1332
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 3: have to have more than you think you're going to need.

1333
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 18: I mean, I think your retirement is probably an accurate number.

1334
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 18: But what you what you should maybe do is work

1335
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 18: on the mix of your assets and just be very

1336
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 18: careful around how you mix those assets together so that

1337
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 18: you can draw the right income from the right assets. So,

1338
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 18: just to give you a very practical example, in the

1339
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 18: first couple of years of retirement, maybe you run with

1340
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,720
Speaker 18: a slightly bigger cash balance than is ideal, and so

1341
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 18: your emergency fund is maybe a little bit bigger than

1342
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 18: we've been speaking about. You know, I would always tell

1343
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 18: people take three to six months in your emergency fund,

1344
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,839
Speaker 18: but perhaps when you hit retirement that you make that bigger.

1345
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 18: So you might say, actually, let me have one year's

1346
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 18: worth of expenses in an emergency fund, and perhaps I'll

1347
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 18: run with a little bit more in bonds, and maybe

1348
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,679
Speaker 18: even in my portfolio is a little bit of extra cash.

1349
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 18: So your asset mix looks a little bit different to

1350
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 18: the norm in that early stage of retirement. And the

1351
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 18: reason for that is if you do start retired life,

1352
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 18: and let's say that was you know, January was the

1353
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 18: beginning of your retired life, and you were feeling really

1354
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 18: good about your portfolio because twenty twenty five was amazing,

1355
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 18: and now you see this big drop in the jac.

1356
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 18: If you've got a big emergency fund, you can start

1357
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 18: to use that as your income asset for a period

1358
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 18: of time and rather not draw from your growth assets,

1359
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 18: so that you give the growth assets a bit of

1360
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:30,639
Speaker 18: time to recover. Because eventually this, you know, whatever's going

1361
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 18: on with Trump and in the Middle East, it will pass.

1362
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 18: Whether it passes in a week or three months, we

1363
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 18: don't know. But if you can have that emergency fund

1364
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:43,799
Speaker 18: to get you through this big dip, once the markets

1365
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 18: see that this conflict is over and goods and oil

1366
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 18: are moving again, they're going to become optimistic and you know,

1367
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 18: they'll think that life is good again, which means that

1368
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 18: investment values start to recover, and then you can start

1369
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 18: to draw from your growth assets again. So I'm not

1370
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 18: sure that you have to have a bigger or much

1371
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 18: bigger balance of retirement assets than that retirement number we've

1372
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:09,640
Speaker 18: spoken about, but I do think you've got to be

1373
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:11,519
Speaker 18: very careful with the mix of those assets.

1374
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 3: Given we're speaking to Warren Ingram tonight, the financial advisor

1375
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 3: and co founder of Galileo Capital. Your questions for him

1376
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 3: the retirement lessons You can't afford to ignore your thoughts

1377
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 3: as well oh seven two seven oh two one seven,

1378
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 3: O two in your cause O two one four for

1379
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 3: six five six seven and O double one double A

1380
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 3: three seven oh two. We have a question from Supia

1381
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 3: Sypias saying I'm thirty eight. I've been setting my parents

1382
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 3: four thousand round a month for the last six years.

1383
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 3: They have no pension and no savings. My siblings do nothing.

1384
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 3: I love my parents, but I'm falling behind on my

1385
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,760
Speaker 3: retirement savings and I don't know how much longer I

1386
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 3: can keep doing this. Nobody talks about this in our family.

1387
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. Supia does sound quite desperate,

1388
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 3: Supi ware, I'm sure you speaking actually for many many

1389
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 3: people will have an answer for you from Warren in

1390
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 3: just a moment eight minutes to eight.

1391
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: The Money Show Stephen Krutez is brought to you by

1392
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 1: Absence Sponsorships, the cloud sponsor of the Absurd kape Epic,

1393
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails.

1394
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,719
Speaker 3: As are register their fsp for the Many Show.

1395
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 2: Personal Finance with Warren Ingram.

1396
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 3: Warren Ingram, as you know as the financial advisor and

1397
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 3: co founder of Galileo Capital, and your questions for him

1398
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 3: on seven two seven O two one seven O two.

1399
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: So p W has question. I've been sending my parents

1400
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 3: four thousand rand a month for the last six years.

1401
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 3: I'm thirty eight. They have no pension, no savings. My

1402
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 3: siblings don't do anything. I love my parents. I'm falling

1403
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: behind in my retirement savings. No one talks about this.

1404
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. It's a very tough question,

1405
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 3: Warren from some paware there, and he's clearly in a

1406
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:45,759
Speaker 3: very difficult place.

1407
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 16: Yep.

1408
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 18: And I think you made the point that there are

1409
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 18: a lot of people in our country in some kind

1410
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 18: of a similar position to this, And I mean, it

1411
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 18: is a very difficult situation. And I don't think there's

1412
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 18: a kind of a magic solution that that that that

1413
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 18: deals with with all of the problems that this raises.

1414
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 2: So my starting point.

1415
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 18: Here is, you know, towards the end of the question

1416
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 18: is not no one's talking about this in the family,

1417
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 18: and and I think that is the starting point. You know,

1418
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 18: if you're in this position, I think it's time to

1419
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 18: sit down with your siblings to say we we have

1420
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 18: a problem and and you know, we need to look

1421
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 18: after our parents. And it can't be one of us

1422
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 18: that that that carries this load. And and so it's

1423
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 18: it's a case of of spreading that load in terms

1424
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 18: of thinking about this issue, discussing it, and then jointly

1425
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 18: coming up with solutions and and and it's not always

1426
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 18: that there's going to be you know, a bunch of

1427
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 18: very easy solutions to come up with. But but it's

1428
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:47,759
Speaker 18: interesting when you start to talk about this as a collective,

1429
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 18: how people will come up with ideas. And it could

1430
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,800
Speaker 18: be that you know that that's a bit bit of communication,

1431
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 18: you know, helps for for the rest of the family

1432
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 18: to understand the need and that they start to contribute.

1433
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:02,600
Speaker 18: That would be the ideal, But but it could be

1434
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 18: that they find other solutions. But potentially you know, different

1435
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 18: accommodation solutions where where you can kind of have a

1436
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 18: multi generation family on a property or something like that.

1437
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 18: But but but I think it does start with with communication.

1438
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 18: And the difficulty here is that you can't you can't

1439
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,759
Speaker 18: take your your own nuclear family. So let's just say

1440
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:25,680
Speaker 18: you know that if you've got children and and and

1441
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 18: then you know, harm your retirement funding as well to

1442
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 18: the point where you you're in a you know, becoming

1443
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 18: a financial burden on your children as well, where where

1444
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 18: this problem just move from one generation to the next.

1445
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 18: So so I think it's it's very important that you know,

1446
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 18: if you're thirty eight years old and you're now addressing this,

1447
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 18: you know that that you don't just let it carry on.

1448
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 18: I think it's it's it's correct to talk about this

1449
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 18: and and to share the burden with everybody in the

1450
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 18: family and let everybody come up with the solution. But

1451
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 18: but you are correct in your in your points of

1452
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 18: view where you can't you can't carry this load and

1453
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 18: then drive your own financial position, you know, into a war,

1454
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,639
Speaker 18: because then then you are going to carry on this

1455
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 18: this legacy to your children as well, and that's just

1456
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 18: not something any parent wants to do.

1457
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,280
Speaker 3: I often think in situations like this, and I'm no

1458
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 3: financial expert, or or family or psychological expert, but one

1459
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 3: of the things that happens, we're in a new of

1460
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 3: ours experience with money. It's tempting for Superior to say,

1461
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do anything. People will be angry

1462
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 3: with me if I spring it up. If he doesn't,

1463
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 3: in the longer run, he's going to be very angry

1464
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 3: with his siblings. And that could destroy his relationship with

1465
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 3: them too.

1466
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 2: We we we.

1467
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 18: Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's interesting psychology here because

1468
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:41,799
Speaker 18: we we do our best to try and help everybody,

1469
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 18: and and either that means we we we rarely harm

1470
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 18: ourselves and then that resentment builds up later in life

1471
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 18: and or we you know, we live with this sphere

1472
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 18: of what will you know? Ask ourselves that question, what

1473
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 18: if you know, what if I bring this up and

1474
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 18: they're upset with me?

1475
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 3: Well?

1476
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 18: What if what if you bring it up and they

1477
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 18: are relieved that they can help? But if you bring

1478
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 18: it up and they come up with some fantastic solutions

1479
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 18: that you didn't know about.

1480
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, we shouldn't just go

1481
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 2: to the negative.

1482
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 18: And frankly, if your siblings are upset with you because

1483
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 18: you've been carrying the you know, this financial burden on

1484
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,080
Speaker 18: their behalf and it's now time for them to cough

1485
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:19,599
Speaker 18: up as well, that you know, that's maybe their issue.

1486
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 18: You know, you're living in fear of other people's feelings

1487
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 18: when you're trying to help everybody. I'm afraid that sometimes

1488
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:27,720
Speaker 18: you just got to take the tough action and it's

1489
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 18: not being selfish. You know when we might have spoken

1490
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:32,839
Speaker 18: about this before, but when you get on the airplane,

1491
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 18: you know, the airline stewards always say to you put

1492
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 18: the oxygen mask on yourself before you help the passengers

1493
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 18: around you. And this is the exact financial equivalent of

1494
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 18: being that you have to look after yourself as well

1495
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:45,680
Speaker 18: so that you can be in a position to help

1496
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 18: your parents for a very long period of time. And

1497
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 18: so don't worry about what your siblings are going to say,

1498
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 18: you know, I hope that actually that sharing the burden

1499
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 18: with them allows them to help you with some solutions.

1500
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 3: Sure, that's an interesting point. Thank you so much. Warren

1501
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 3: and grimstuf finan advisor co founder of Galileo Capital. We've

1502
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 3: been talking tonight about the retirement lessons you cannot afford

1503
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 3: to ignore. This is one of those episodes of personal

1504
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 3: Finance where I strongly urge you to find the podcast

1505
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 3: in about twenty minutes or so and send that along

1506
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 3: to anyone you think might actually need to hear it.

1507
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Speaker 3: Decisions about benefits shouldn't be guesswork. Samaka Consults, part of

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Speaker 3: Sunlum Corporate walks decision makers through retirement and employee benefits Solutions,

1509
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Speaker 3: Independent advice, practical governance and strategies shaped around real people.

1510
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Speaker 3: They take employee care personally because you do too. When

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Speaker 3: new care, everyone benefits. Talk to Samaica and build an

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Speaker 3: age of confidence together. Find out more at Samikaconsults dot

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Speaker 3: co dot zda.

1514
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Speaker 1: The Money Show Stephen Krutez is brought to you by

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01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: Absence Sponsorships, the crowd sponsor of the absurd gape Epic.

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01:20:58,320 --> 01:21:01,759
Speaker 1: Celebrating twenty years of taking it to the trails, APPS

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01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: has arragised fsp.

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Speaker 3: Well on a nights with queues at our filling stations

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01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 3: in the US. There's optimism that the situation around the

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01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 3: strait of whom as well. What's the phrase of the moment,

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01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 3: de escalate. The Dow Jones is up two percent, the

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01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:19,800
Speaker 3: Nasdaq is up three point two percent, and the S

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01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 3: and P five hundred is up two point two eight percent. Well,

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Speaker 3: let's hope the optimism is well founded. We're back tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Good evening, it's eight o'clock