Neroli Brennan: This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have
Neroli Brennan: a good yarn about ag life with producers who are
Neroli Brennan: having a go. On the show, you will hear from
Neroli Brennan: farmers in New South Wales who are out there battling
Neroli Brennan: the elements, making tough calls and getting the job done.
Neroli Brennan: You'll get a laugh out of some of their stories
Neroli Brennan: and also pick up some know- how along the way.
Neroli Brennan: I'm your host, Neroli Brennan. Today, we're sitting down with
Neroli Brennan: Rhett Robinson. Rhett, along with his father, run their family
Neroli Brennan: farm, Arana, a 500- acre property between Gulgong and Dunedoo. On
Neroli Brennan: the block, the Robinsons typically produce Sam sheep and cattle
Neroli Brennan: utilizing a native pasture base. As you'll hear, when Rhett's
Neroli Brennan: not on the farm, he works for Local Land Services
Neroli Brennan: as a senior biosecurity officer, which he has done for
Neroli Brennan: the last 22 years. Over his impressive career in pest
Neroli Brennan: animal management, Rhett has seen the rise and fall of
Neroli Brennan: various pests. In this episode, Rhett shares with us all
Neroli Brennan: the tips and tricks he's picked up along the way,
Neroli Brennan: including a number of solutions to help combat the impact
Neroli Brennan: of rabbits, pigs, wild dogs, and foxes. Local Land Services
Neroli Brennan: cropping advisor, Tim Bartimote sat down with Rhett over a
Neroli Brennan: cuppa to have this chat in our Dubbo LLS office.
Tim Bartimote: Well, welcome back to the podcast, listeners. Today, I'm joined by
Tim Bartimote: Rhett Robinson, who actually works for LLS, but he's also
Tim Bartimote: a local producer with his family. How are you going
Tim Bartimote: today, Rhett?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, good, thanks Tim. How are you going?
Tim Bartimote: Yeah, not too bad. Can you tell us a bit about your family
Tim Bartimote: farm, please?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, it's like an old family farm. It first started
Rhett Robinson: back in the selection days with my great- great- great-
Rhett Robinson: grandfather. So yeah, been there a fair while. It's between
Rhett Robinson: in the Tallawong area, which is between Gulgong and Dunedoo. About halfway. Yeah,
Rhett Robinson: been there a while. Typical family farm, it's gone up and
Rhett Robinson: down throughout the generation. So yeah, it is not very big at
Rhett Robinson: the moment, but it's only 500 acres. But yes, it's
Rhett Robinson: a nice 500 acres and love getting over there and it means
Rhett Robinson: a lot to me, like the old family graveyard's on the
Rhett Robinson: place and all that stuff. So yeah, I like to feel
Rhett Robinson: pretty connected to the place really, well, I do feel connected
Rhett Robinson: to place. Yeah.
Tim Bartimote: What do you produce on that block?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, it's way back in the early days there was a lot more emphasis
Rhett Robinson: on wheat back in my great- grandfather's and grandfather's day
Rhett Robinson: and typical farms in that area, it's more livestock based
Rhett Robinson: now. So yeah, sheep and cattle have been what we've been doing, but
Rhett Robinson: we actually got foot rot a couple of years ago
Rhett Robinson: and had the de- stock, so we've just been doing
Rhett Robinson: some adjustment stuff in the meantime until we get back
Rhett Robinson: to restocking.
Tim Bartimote: Yeah, right. So is it more focused on native pastures, improved?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, native pastures with the sub- clover on the base,
Rhett Robinson: probably more sheep focused. We had Sam's ewes at the
Rhett Robinson: time and yeah, they're great old ewes, big strong things and
Rhett Robinson: have great lambs and yeah, very fertile too.
Tim Bartimote: So you obviously work full- time at LLS as well,
Tim Bartimote: but how do you manage? You just run out there on
Tim Bartimote: the weekends?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, I'm over there most weekends, it's unusual for me
Rhett Robinson: to not be there on the weekend. Dad's getting quite
Rhett Robinson: old now and needs a bit of a help along
Rhett Robinson: the way, so I love going out there anyway. He
Rhett Robinson: doesn't have to ask me twice, doesn't have to ask
Rhett Robinson: me at all.
Tim Bartimote: You just turn up.
Rhett Robinson: Just turn up
Tim Bartimote: Unannounced. Oh, you're back again, Rhett.
Rhett Robinson: What are we doing today?
Tim Bartimote: So you said it's been in the family quite a
Tim Bartimote: while. Do you know exactly how long?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, from family stories, I think it was about in 1860s,
Rhett Robinson: 1866 I think it was. But before then, my great- great-
Rhett Robinson: great grandfather was an overseer for one of the local
Rhett Robinson: squatters, the Rouses, is my understanding. So he was looking
Rhett Robinson: after their stock in that locality for a number of
Rhett Robinson: years before he took up the selection block. Actually, when
Rhett Robinson: grandmother died, me and my wife bought that block, which
Rhett Robinson: was left to me aunties and the rest of it
Rhett Robinson: was left to dad. So that was great to get
Rhett Robinson: that, because that's where the family graveyard is on that
Rhett Robinson: selection block down along the creek and it's good.
Tim Bartimote: So quite a lot of history there.
Rhett Robinson: A lot of history.
Tim Bartimote: And so can you walk us through a bit more
Tim Bartimote: about what the country's like?
Rhett Robinson: Well, we've got two creeks which intersperse the place or
Rhett Robinson: divide the place go through the middle of the place. So it's
Rhett Robinson: mostly yellow box creek flats. There is some granite country
Rhett Robinson: out the other side, what we call the second creek,
Rhett Robinson: which is good grazing country. So nice mix of yellow
Rhett Robinson: box and that granite country. Good sheep country, real good
Rhett Robinson: sheep country.
Tim Bartimote: So what's your approach now having dealt with foot rot? What's
Tim Bartimote: your approach now in terms of restocking?
Rhett Robinson: Well, dad's slowed up a fair bit. He just wants to go a bit easier. So
Rhett Robinson: yeah, what he wants to do is just have adjustment stock for
Rhett Robinson: the next while, but when it's my turn later on down
Rhett Robinson: the track, we'll get back into the sheep, for sure. I
Rhett Robinson: love me sheep.
Tim Bartimote: What do you love about them? Because I don't understand it.
Rhett Robinson: How could you not love sheep? I've got a list
Rhett Robinson: maybe I don't do as much sheep work as other
Rhett Robinson: people, so I enjoy it while I do it and then
Rhett Robinson: it stops before it wears itself out. The enjoyment wears
Rhett Robinson: out. But yeah, I've always loved sheep from a young
Rhett Robinson: kid and I think, yeah, we've always had sheep and
Rhett Robinson: I know my great- grandfather was a big sheep man,
Rhett Robinson: so he liked the sheep. So it's in the blood,
Rhett Robinson: I suppose, just from an early age. It's the thing
Rhett Robinson: I took a liking to and yeah, never stopped liking.
Tim Bartimote: So focusing on wool or meat sheep or combo?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, combo, whether we get back into Sam's or not,
Rhett Robinson: it's another thing, it's a bit hard to get good
Rhett Robinson: quality Sam rams in New South Wales now. Maybe we'll
Rhett Robinson: have a think at a time whether we'll do Merinos and maybe
Rhett Robinson: join a portion of them to a meat breed, maybe
Rhett Robinson: Suffolks or something like that, maybe.
Tim Bartimote: In terms of, so 500 acres did you say in totality?
Tim Bartimote: Is there opportunity to expand in that space or is
Tim Bartimote: it tightly held, a lot of the eastern country?
Rhett Robinson: Oh yeah, it's pretty tightly held, but I suppose over my lifetime, I've seen
Rhett Robinson: a few places have been sold, but it's few and
Rhett Robinson: far between. It's a long time in between properties getting
Rhett Robinson: sold. So some of my neighbours, they had been there for a little long as what we have nearly.
Rhett Robinson: So it is pretty tightly held and quite dear too.
Tim Bartimote: What's it like? What would you say an acre kind of?
Rhett Robinson: Oh, there's a place down at Birriwa sold, oh, I think they
Rhett Robinson: bought for 4, 000 an acre. Yeah, which is a lot.
Tim Bartimote: For our part of the world.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I'm just fortunate, I count myself so lucky that
Rhett Robinson: I've got that to go back to when I retire
Rhett Robinson: and yeah, I'm really looking forward to going back.
Tim Bartimote: Has it passed on to your girls as well?
Rhett Robinson: The two youngest ones, they're pretty keen, which is good
Rhett Robinson: to see, but I was pretty worried with them growing
Rhett Robinson: up in Dubbo, whether they'd feel the same way about it
Rhett Robinson: that I feel, not growing up on there, but they
Rhett Robinson: seem pretty keen, so I hope that continues.
Tim Bartimote: Watch this space, see what happens.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, that's it.
Tim Bartimote: Rhett, you've been a staple I guess in Local Land
Tim Bartimote: Services since it started, but you've also obviously been part
Tim Bartimote: of the space before that. Can you walk us through
Tim Bartimote: your pest management career, how it kicked off?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah. Well I started in 2002 with the Rural Lands
Rhett Robinson: Protection Board, Dubbo Rural Lands Protection Board at the time.
Rhett Robinson: So yeah, started back then and that turned into Livestock
Rhett Robinson: Health and Pest Authorities and that turned into LLS. So
Rhett Robinson: just basically started through that and from there, so what's
Rhett Robinson: that, nearly 22 years now or a bit more?
Tim Bartimote: What was it like back then when you started?
Rhett Robinson: Oh, it was really good. It's good now too. Don't
Rhett Robinson: worry. Yeah. But yeah, they were all (inaudible) , for me, they were a great organisation,
Rhett Robinson: really grow a lead with the board at the time, we
Rhett Robinson: had a great board to work with in Dubbo. All the
Rhett Robinson: directors were fantastic. But time's changed and it's different now,
Rhett Robinson: but there are good things now that we didn't have back
Rhett Robinson: then as well. So with the pest levy money that
Rhett Robinson: we have come back to Local Land Services now, which
Rhett Robinson: we're using. So actually probably busier now in the pest animal
Rhett Robinson: front than we've ever been really just with the opportunities
Rhett Robinson: that we've had through LLS.
Tim Bartimote: So what was your focus back then? What pests were... The same
Tim Bartimote: stuff as today or?
Rhett Robinson: No, it has changed. Back then it was rabbits when
Rhett Robinson: I first started and foxes were probably the main thing.
Rhett Robinson: Pigs weren't the issue, anywhere near the issue is what
Rhett Robinson: they are now for sure. We did a lot more
Rhett Robinson: rabbit work back in those days. Every summer we'd be
Rhett Robinson: doing rabbit jobs here, there and everywhere. Whereas now if I do one
Rhett Robinson: or two a year, that's something. So that side of things
Rhett Robinson: has eased off. The foxes have continued on and we've
Rhett Robinson: kept our programs going up. Lisa Thomas, at the time, and
Rhett Robinson: myself started back in the early 2000s and all those programs are
Rhett Robinson: still ongoing now, even with the organisational changes, which is
Rhett Robinson: good. So continue working on those. Wild dogs have crept
Rhett Robinson: into the area over the last 10 to 15 years.
Rhett Robinson: So whereas when I started, wild dogs weren't even on
Rhett Robinson: the radar in the Central West, so that side of things
Rhett Robinson: change and as everybody knows, pig numbers have really exploded.
Rhett Robinson: It's funny, after the early 2000s drought, when that ended,
Rhett Robinson: people were saying then, " I've had pigs turn up," I've
Rhett Robinson: never had pigs and want to do a bit of baiting and control
Rhett Robinson: work. The same thing happened after this last drought. Pig
Rhett Robinson: numbers have just spread and gone into areas where they
Rhett Robinson: haven't been before and increased in numbers as well. So
Rhett Robinson: pigs have definitely increased a heap compared to when I
Rhett Robinson: first started.
Tim Bartimote: That's interesting. So I guess to kind of paint this
Tim Bartimote: big picture, from your 22 years of experiences working in
Tim Bartimote: pest management, what is the need, do you reckon? What
Tim Bartimote: importance does your role bring to the farming community or
Tim Bartimote: the greater community do you think?
Rhett Robinson: Well, I suppose if you looked at the wild dog front, if
Rhett Robinson: we don't keep on top of the wild dog problem
Rhett Robinson: and if it goes the way it has gone in
Rhett Robinson: other areas to some of the stories that you hear,
Rhett Robinson: what's happened there, if the same thing happened here in
Rhett Robinson: Central West in such a strong sheep country, enterprise region,
Rhett Robinson: it'd be devastating for me. Well, dogs are probably the
Rhett Robinson: one thing that can be a nail in the coffin
Rhett Robinson: of sheep enterprises and that's the last thing that I'd like to see, not only
Rhett Robinson: for farms but for the local community as well with Fletcher's
Rhett Robinson: here. If the sheep industry decreased here, it's going to
Rhett Robinson: make it harder for the whole rural economy. So I
Rhett Robinson: think it's really important that we try to support the
Rhett Robinson: industry that we're in.
Tim Bartimote: So your role provides a coordinated approach to dealing with
Tim Bartimote: pest management, as opposed to a couple of neighbours working
Tim Bartimote: together. You're trying to look at it region wide, how
Tim Bartimote: do we tackle these issues?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, definitely. So that larger scale stuff, trying to pull
Rhett Robinson: people together to work together in groups and do coordinated
Rhett Robinson: programs so we can have bigger impact on what we
Rhett Robinson: do. So really probably my job as much as anything
Rhett Robinson: is about working with people and pulling people together and
Rhett Robinson: getting everybody trying to pushing the same direction as much
Rhett Robinson: as we can.
Tim Bartimote: So what does a typical week look like in the
Tim Bartimote: life of Rhett Robinson?
Rhett Robinson: Well, just at the moment we're organising fox- baiting programs
Rhett Robinson: and dogs as well. But all those baiting groups that
Rhett Robinson: we work with, we have added the Dubbo office. We
Rhett Robinson: have 25 landholder groups based on localities in the area that
Rhett Robinson: we work with just to coordinate control. So in the
Rhett Robinson: early days we were focused on the foxes, but we're pretty
Rhett Robinson: much focused on any pest now with those groups. So
Rhett Robinson: whatever's worrying them. So to the east of Dubbo, certainly dogs are in that
Rhett Robinson: mix and pigs as well across all the groups pretty much.
Rhett Robinson: So we are just organising those programs now, but those meetings, so
Rhett Robinson: where we get landholders together, we have landholder coordinators that get
Rhett Robinson: bait orders, so we make them up and take them out.
Rhett Robinson: So everybody's doing their control programs all at the same
Rhett Robinson: time so that they have the biggest impact. And we
Rhett Robinson: try to do those meetings with foxes and dogs where it's
Rhett Robinson: going to have... Where we do the autumn round, the
Rhett Robinson: group baiting to really target foxes as an example during
Rhett Robinson: that dispersal period. So target them then and also follow
Rhett Robinson: that up in late winter to target them during their breeding time. So target those times when they're
Rhett Robinson: most vulnerable to really keep overall numbers low. And with foxes
Rhett Robinson: as an example, just to continue it on, we did
Rhett Robinson: some spotlight counts a few years ago now, but the same thing
Rhett Robinson: would hold, where we compared where groups where they bait
Rhett Robinson: them in the autumn and winter and did spotlight counts
Rhett Robinson: transects. So you do a 10 kilometre transect and you do a count and we
Rhett Robinson: compared that to an area where they don't do coordinated baiting, and
Rhett Robinson: the numbers of foxes were 80%... Well, it's more than 80%
Rhett Robinson: lower throughout the year where you're doing fox baiting twice
Rhett Robinson: a year. So it's pretty impressive if you can pull
Rhett Robinson: people together, do the timing correctly, you can have pretty
Rhett Robinson: good results. And that flows on to increasing people's lambing percentages. Yeah,
Rhett Robinson: there was the Vertebrate Pest Research unit with the DPI, looked at
Rhett Robinson: group baiting in one of their research programs, and I
Rhett Robinson: think people in group baiting programs were making up to 20%
Rhett Robinson: more lambs than people that weren't part of those in
Rhett Robinson: other areas. So it definitely makes a difference, it produces hip-pocket,
Rhett Robinson: those programs, which I find very satisfying.
Tim Bartimote: I bet. To know that you're contributing to an impact
Tim Bartimote: on a regional scale.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah.
Tim Bartimote: Because it sounds very strategic. You're obviously working out from
Tim Bartimote: the pest animal perspective, their mating habits and their life
Tim Bartimote: cycle, that sort of stuff, and particularly targeting key timings
Tim Bartimote: to achieve widespread control.
Rhett Robinson: For sure.
Tim Bartimote: Well I know you're one of the most popular guys
Tim Bartimote: in this office in terms of customers coming in.
Rhett Robinson: People coming through.
Tim Bartimote: " Is Rhett here? Can I talk to Rhett?"
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, always love to see him. It's always good.
Tim Bartimote: So we'll get down to the nitty- gritty, Rhett, of
Tim Bartimote: how do we approach control and some of these major pests. Well,
Tim Bartimote: I've heard stories anyway that in every fox's den, mate,
Tim Bartimote: there's the most wanted sign of you because you've been
Tim Bartimote: involved in a lot of controlling these various animals. So
Tim Bartimote: let's get into it and pick out from your expertise.
Tim Bartimote: Pigs. That's probably-
Rhett Robinson: Pigs, yeah, the big issue.
Tim Bartimote: How do we approach pigs or how do you approach pigs
Tim Bartimote: and what do you have for any producers who are listening?
Rhett Robinson: Well, I suppose there's different levels to approach pigs. So there's the
Rhett Robinson: broader strategic levels which we probably could cover and also
Rhett Robinson: what you can do on your own properties, which contributes
Rhett Robinson: to that. So I suppose on a broad level before
Rhett Robinson: getting down to property to property type stuff, individual property
Rhett Robinson: type stuff, look, if you've got pigs on your property,
Rhett Robinson: really should be trying to start working in with neighbours
Rhett Robinson: and it makes a huge difference to knocking pigs down.
Rhett Robinson: So you really need to be removing 70% of pigs
Rhett Robinson: in an area just to maintain them because they breed
Rhett Robinson: so quick. So you've got to remove a heap each
Rhett Robinson: year or a minimum of 70%. So to do that
Rhett Robinson: you need to really work in with your neighbours, which
Rhett Robinson: will, if they're taking care of some of the pigs
Rhett Robinson: and you share the workload basically and you stop that
Rhett Robinson: immigration. So if you poison pigs on your place and
Rhett Robinson: two or three places down the track, those pigs could
Rhett Robinson: swing back around on you and immigrate again. So if
Rhett Robinson: you can do that is one of the key things to
Rhett Robinson: do. Really stick with the effective controls, which baiting is
Rhett Robinson: the most effective way to reduce pig numbers. So yeah, once again-
Tim Bartimote: So not shooting at it?
Rhett Robinson: No, no. I'll come to that. Aerial shooting plays a part.
Rhett Robinson: It can play a useful part of it, but it's
Rhett Robinson: not the answer to feral pig control in my experience
Rhett Robinson: with the shooting that we've been doing around Dubbo, really you need to be doing other controls around it.
Tim Bartimote: So it's literally not the silver bullet.
Rhett Robinson: It is not a silver bullet, but I wish it was, but it's not.
Tim Bartimote: It's more of an integrated approach is what's required.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, that's right. And with pig numbers the way they are, an integrated approach...
Rhett Robinson: So DPI, I've seen some research that's been done there.
Rhett Robinson: They're baiting at pigs with 1080 has done well, can reduce numbers
Rhett Robinson: by up to 90%, trapping's about 70%, and I think they
Rhett Robinson: put aerial shooting about that 70% as well, which maybe in the
Rhett Robinson: Dubbo area, I think that might be a bit optimistic
Rhett Robinson: from my experience. And the feedback that I'll get from producers afterwards,
Rhett Robinson: they're still seeing a lot of pigs. And for example,
Rhett Robinson: we did the shoot in an area west of Dubbo here earlier
Rhett Robinson: this year. They took out 400 pigs, they were concentrated along
Rhett Robinson: the creek lines and we followed that up with a
Rhett Robinson: baiting program and we're still issued a ton of 1080 pig grain
Rhett Robinson: after the shoot, which is enough to kill about 2000
Rhett Robinson: pigs, to give you a bit of an idea. So it's not like
Rhett Robinson: they only needed two or 300 kilos, even though we did
Rhett Robinson: the shoot, we still had significant uptake of pig 1080
Rhett Robinson: grain afterwards. So just to give you a bit of
Rhett Robinson: an idea.
Tim Bartimote: So it's a significant contributor to control, aerial shooting, but it's
Tim Bartimote: far better if you can incorporate...
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, it's far better. We're going to get bang for our buck. Yeah,
Rhett Robinson: we need to be following up with baiting or trapping where you
Rhett Robinson: can't do baiting. So the main things... Also, the timing
Rhett Robinson: of control. Now in winter's a good time to do it. Pigs are
Rhett Robinson: hungry with the cold so it's easy to get them on the grain. Summertime
Rhett Robinson: is another good strategic time for people to be doing
Rhett Robinson: baiting together. They'll be normal hot summer, they'll be concentrated
Rhett Robinson: on water points in amongst any dams, in trees, in
Rhett Robinson: the scrub areas, or along those shady creeks. That's where
Rhett Robinson: they'll be and concentrates numbers at those points and you
Rhett Robinson: can really... If we targeted them then with a good
Rhett Robinson: baiting program you can have a significant reduction in numbers.
Rhett Robinson: So taking advantage of those times and probably thinking even
Rhett Robinson: further forward. But the next drought is probably the time
Rhett Robinson: when we should really be putting the boot in the
Rhett Robinson: pig numbers and concentrating pig control then because during a
Rhett Robinson: drought, piglet survivability will be low anyway and pig numbers
Rhett Robinson: will be naturally decreasing. But if we can be also reducing
Rhett Robinson: numbers as much as we can with baiting and trapping,
Rhett Robinson: so when we come out of the next drought, pig numbers are even lower than
Rhett Robinson: what they were coming out of this last one. That
Rhett Robinson: will make a big difference in two or three years down
Rhett Robinson: the track. Hopefully we shouldn't have the numbers that we have now. So
Rhett Robinson: the next drought's going to be a key time when
Rhett Robinson: I think we should be really concentrating on it. I get it
Rhett Robinson: with farmers, they work flat out feeding stock and keeping
Rhett Robinson: the show going and under a lot of stress, but
Rhett Robinson: if we can make something good come out of the next
Rhett Robinson: drought, that'd be one thing we could do. If producers said, "
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, let's do this."
Tim Bartimote: Kind of like a silver lining kind of thing.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, get something good out of it.
Tim Bartimote: Yeah, that's interesting. I think that was it, 70% you've
Tim Bartimote: got to knock the population down to maintain the population
Tim Bartimote: over the long term. That's crazy.
Rhett Robinson: And you've got to do that annually. The other thing too
Rhett Robinson: we are encouraging people to do when they're doing baiting
Rhett Robinson: on their own properties, getting down to the property level, is
Rhett Robinson: really increasing their free feeding time when they're doing a
Rhett Robinson: baiting program. So rather than just put grain out for two
Rhett Robinson: or three days and have the pigs come in and then
Rhett Robinson: put the bait out, if you can free feed for a longer
Rhett Robinson: period, what you'll find is all those other mobs that are
Rhett Robinson: cutting through that part of your property have times to
Rhett Robinson: come off the neighbours or swing around and find where
Rhett Robinson: you are free feeding as well. So instead of poisoning
Rhett Robinson: one mob at a time, if you can free fee
Rhett Robinson: for, well the ideal time's 10 to 14 days at
Rhett Robinson: any given time, and you'll get multiple mobs feeding that
Rhett Robinson: one feeding point and so you can have a big
Rhett Robinson: clean out of all the mobs that are cutting through.
Rhett Robinson: So that will make a big difference too if we
Rhett Robinson: get people doing that. And also with people doing their
Rhett Robinson: baiting programs too, it's important to know how much the
Rhett Robinson: pigs are eating so we don't underdose them. So pre feeding is important
Rhett Robinson: for that. And also cleaning up any 1080 grain after
Rhett Robinson: they've done their program is really important as well.
Tim Bartimote: Is that the thing about the bad curry kind of idea?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah. After you do a baiting program, if you go
Rhett Robinson: and clean it up and you leave two or three
Rhett Robinson: kilos scattered in the baiting site there, that is hard
Rhett Robinson: to pick up. The pigs will pick it up, but
Rhett Robinson: it's enough to make them sick and make them bait
Rhett Robinson: shy and then we'll never get them to eat bait again. So
Rhett Robinson: it's really important to be particular either feeding in a
Rhett Robinson: trench where you can go and bury the bait so where the pigs can't
Rhett Robinson: get at it or feeding in some troughing like C-
Rhett Robinson: section or whatever so you can clean up the bait site
Rhett Robinson: afterwards and so we don't have another mob coming along potentially
Rhett Robinson: later on and cleaning up half a kilo of grain
Rhett Robinson: and getting sick and...
Tim Bartimote: Just totally going off it. And so they learn not
Tim Bartimote: to touch that stuff.
Rhett Robinson: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to teach them twice.
Tim Bartimote: Yeah, right.
Rhett Robinson: So yeah, we've had landowners come in with examples where
Rhett Robinson: they do the free feed, come and get the bait and they put it out, and the mob
Rhett Robinson: turns up and they walk away. So, when they've had
Rhett Robinson: cameras on it and they see what's going on. That's
Rhett Robinson: really important too when you're doing your programs.
Tim Bartimote: If we move on from pigs, dogs?
Rhett Robinson: Dogs, yeah, well they are probably the hardest of all the
Rhett Robinson: pest animals to deal with and one of those ones where
Rhett Robinson: integrated control is just you got to do it. Can't
Rhett Robinson: rely on baiting alone, trapping alone or all that stuff.
Rhett Robinson: So you've really got to integrate the controls as much as
Rhett Robinson: we can. So once again, we have quite a few
Rhett Robinson: groups or pest animal groups that do concentrate on wild
Rhett Robinson: dogs as well, so them doing ground baiting. We had been
Rhett Robinson: doing a district- wide aerial baiting program regularly over the
Rhett Robinson: last six, seven years, something like that where we're doing baiting
Rhett Robinson: all the rough country, inaccessible country east of Dubbo, basically from the Mendooran,
Rhett Robinson: Gilgandra area back through to (inaudible) area and back around
Rhett Robinson: Dunedoo, around Burrendong, Dam, down to Euchareena. So that aerial baiting program for
Rhett Robinson: me has been a big boost to increasing the coverage of baiting
Rhett Robinson: across the region. Before we started, we had 16 reports
Rhett Robinson: in that year of wild dogs in that area, but
Rhett Robinson: since we started aerial baiting, for this year, we've only
Rhett Robinson: had six in those areas where we've been doing aerial baiting.
Rhett Robinson: So it has dropped back the number report. Yeah, I
Rhett Robinson: think it's just got the critical mass of baits going
Rhett Robinson: out has got it to the point where we can
Rhett Robinson: stabilise it. Touch wood, don't want to count me laurels,
Rhett Robinson: but that's been a key part of it. And National
Rhett Robinson: Parks and State Forests and crown lands have been part
Rhett Robinson: of that and the Aboriginal Land Council with their country as well. So it's been a good
Rhett Robinson: coordinated cross tenure approach with landholders as well and all these
Rhett Robinson: other agencies as well, that program.
Tim Bartimote: So that's essentially just to describe what's going on, you're
Tim Bartimote: going up in your helicopter and you've got treated baits and you're
Tim Bartimote: throwing them out the helicopter window.
Rhett Robinson: Basically with the people that participate in the aerial baiting, we map
Rhett Robinson: it out where exactly where the baits are to go.
Rhett Robinson: So that's all mapped out and the helicopter has an
Rhett Robinson: iPad in real time where they can follow those lines
Rhett Robinson: and they drop them out, and the baits are within
Rhett Robinson: 20 metres of either side of that line. So it is not flicking them out everywhere. So it is
Rhett Robinson: targeted. So yeah, we really target those ridge lines and
Rhett Robinson: gullies and wildlife movement corridors that dogs use as well.
Rhett Robinson: So try and get the landholders to identify where they are
Rhett Robinson: and target those in those inaccessible areas to increase the coverage.
Tim Bartimote: And it's more a problem on the eastern side of the region?
Rhett Robinson: Predominantly in the Great Dividing Range, there's a lot of
Rhett Robinson: dogs there, and to the east of us. And we have
Rhett Robinson: been sending DNA samples away to the PRU, the Pest Research Unit,
Rhett Robinson: and they're looking at the genetic relatedness and where they've picked it up.
Rhett Robinson: For example, there was some dogs at Fremantle, north of
Rhett Robinson: Orange related to dogs that were shot at Goolma. So
Rhett Robinson: they're looking at where dogs are moving and spreading from,
Rhett Robinson: but I think it's predominantly from that eastern side migration
Tim Bartimote: When we're talking dogs, just for someone who might listen
Tim Bartimote: to this from some other place, they travel a long
Tim Bartimote: way and they're just like bit of... They're a true mutt in
Tim Bartimote: the sense of they're just a mix of breeds.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're all cross-breds, with the DNA side of things
Rhett Robinson: ranged 25% like dingo genetics through to 75%. So it's
Rhett Robinson: in that range. There was I think a couple of dogs actually in that Nyngan-Warren area.
Rhett Robinson: I think they were pretty pure actually. They were up
Rhett Robinson: in the nineties.
Tim Bartimote: Pure dingo?
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, so I'm guessing that they might've more likely come from
Rhett Robinson: Western New South Wales and migrated in. So these dogs,
Rhett Robinson: when they get it in their mind to move, they can really travel hundreds of
Rhett Robinson: miles. The GPS collars collared some dogs in Queensland and
Rhett Robinson: if I remember the story right, this dog had moved
Rhett Robinson: like 500 kilometres from Charleville to Collarenebri or somewhere up
Rhett Robinson: in northern New South Wales there and it was like 500 kilometres. So
Rhett Robinson: for dogs to come from the Great Dividing Range and
Rhett Robinson: make it to this Dubbo area is really-
Tim Bartimote: Just an afternoon stroll.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, we've been lucky. Most of the dogs that we've
Rhett Robinson: been getting have been male dogs because numbers can really
Rhett Robinson: start skyrocketing if we're getting breeding dogs in here as well.
Tim Bartimote: Because there's a fair bit of work in terms of
Tim Bartimote: monitoring them, isn't there? In terms of you get cameras
Tim Bartimote: set up by producers to try and catch these dogs
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, yeah, and to target these dogs you need to know where
Rhett Robinson: they're traveling. Particularly when it comes to the trapping, you need to
Rhett Robinson: know what paths they're using in the landscape and that
Rhett Robinson: can be a little bit of a needle in a
Rhett Robinson: haystack. Sometimes you get onto it quite quickly. There was
Rhett Robinson: a dog trap at Ballimore in January this year, we
Rhett Robinson: just happened to strike the cameras on the pads that
Rhett Robinson: this dog was using regularly and we were able to...
Rhett Robinson: That's a trapper or a local landholder that's become really
Rhett Robinson: good at trapping from Goolma. So he'd come in with
Rhett Robinson: those landholders and was able to trap the dog quite
Rhett Robinson: quickly. But other times it can take quite a while
Rhett Robinson: to work out what paths these dogs are using. But cameras
Rhett Robinson: are the reason why we knew early on. We were doing
Rhett Robinson: monitoring for fox numbers and there was a dog, it just turned up
Rhett Robinson: and then another dog, a fellow at Ballimore shot one. So that's about 15 years ago.
Rhett Robinson: So that started raising it, thinking maybe we've got emerging
Rhett Robinson: problem here and maybe get proactive and get ahead of
Rhett Robinson: it and try and keep on top of it. In
Rhett Robinson: the position we are now, for me, 15 years after we first became aware
Rhett Robinson: of them and still only really having scattered dogs in
Rhett Robinson: the main, is testament to the efforts of the landholders getting together and
Rhett Robinson: getting skilled up and doing trapping and forming groups where
Rhett Robinson: they have their trapping kitty to pay for trappers when
Rhett Robinson: needed, keep their baiting up. And with the aerial baiting, coordinating
Rhett Robinson: all that across a large area, it's been a bit
Rhett Robinson: of a team effort by everybody concerned really to be
Rhett Robinson: in the position that we are now. So touch wood, it keeps on
Rhett Robinson: going that way. Yeah, probably also going forward with wild
Rhett Robinson: dogs is we're talking about trapping and shooting and baiting
Rhett Robinson: as being the mainstays, but-
Tim Bartimote: Exclusion fencing.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, and it doesn't have to be like six foot
Rhett Robinson: high stuff to help out. In the table lands, they've
Rhett Robinson: done the western fence offsets have been effective in reducing
Rhett Robinson: the movements of dogs about the area too. So their
Rhett Robinson: natural instinct isn't to jump over a fence, it's to
Rhett Robinson: go underneath. So utilizing stuff like that I think will
Rhett Robinson: be increasingly important going forward. And even using guardian animals
Rhett Robinson: too, if it really gets any worse. So at the
Rhett Robinson: moment we're tracking all right, but we've got to keep
Rhett Robinson: these other options. People need to be thinking about the
Rhett Robinson: whole, using all these tools if we want to keep
Rhett Robinson: on running sheep going forward.
Tim Bartimote: Right, Rhett. Well thanks for coming in today. Appreciate your
Tim Bartimote: time and hearing about all what's going on in the
Tim Bartimote: pest animal space.
Rhett Robinson: Yeah, no, that's all right. And if anybody has questions, just
Rhett Robinson: give us a ring anytime. We'll pop in, have a yarn, and yeah, that'd
Rhett Robinson: be great.
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