Neroli Brennan: This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have
Neroli Brennan: a good yarn about ag life with producers who are
Neroli Brennan: having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers
Neroli Brennan: in New South Wales who are out there battling the
Neroli Brennan: elements, making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll
Neroli Brennan: get a laugh out of some of their stories and
Neroli Brennan: also pick up some know- how along the way. I'm
Neroli Brennan: your host, Neroli Brennan. Today, we're catching up with Jacob
Neroli Brennan: Knight. Jacob is a third generation farmer, who works alongside
Neroli Brennan: his family on Boxwood, their 2, 200 hectare property just
Neroli Brennan: near Mendooran. In this episode, you'll hear how over the
Neroli Brennan: last few decades the Knights have slowly been improving their
Neroli Brennan: business through constant self- evaluation, in an attempt to work
Neroli Brennan: out the best mix of enterprises. You'll also hear Jacob
Neroli Brennan: explain how over the last few years they've increased their
Neroli Brennan: focus on dual- purpose cropping and the establishment of temperate
Neroli Brennan: pastures, all in an effort to maximize production in their
Neroli Brennan: prime lamb enterprise. Local Land Services cropping advisor, Tim Bartimote,
Neroli Brennan: sat down with Jacob for a cuppa and this chat
Neroli Brennan: at Boxwood.
Tim Bartimote: Good day, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. Today we're
Tim Bartimote: here with Jacob Knight out at Boxwood. How you going, Jacob?
Jacob Knight: Good, Tim. Thanks for having me on.
Tim Bartimote: No worries. Thanks for being here, for letting me come
Tim Bartimote: and annoy you about what you do.
Jacob Knight: No dramas.
Tim Bartimote: Can you tell us a little bit about Boxwood?
Jacob Knight: We are here on Boxwood, Tim. This is a family
Jacob Knight: mixed farm. I'm farming here with my brother and my
Jacob Knight: father and our families. My brother and his wife and
Jacob Knight: four kids, and me and my wife and about to
Jacob Knight: have our fourth, and mom and dad here. That's where
Jacob Knight: we're at, just out of Mendooran.
Tim Bartimote: When you say mixed- farming enterprise, what does that consist of?
Jacob Knight: We're mixed farming. Probably the main business is prime lambs
Jacob Knight: come from first- cross ewes. We also do a fair
Jacob Knight: bit of cropping and pastures, a bit of hay. And
Jacob Knight: we've done a bit of cattle trading and just recently
Jacob Knight: put a few of those on again.
Tim Bartimote: For those who aren't familiar with the Mendooran district, which
Tim Bartimote: we're not too far from, how many K's are we from Mendooran?
Jacob Knight: We're eight to 10 K's out of Mendooran, on the
Jacob Knight: Southeast corner.
Tim Bartimote: What is the country typically like around here?
Jacob Knight: We've got a fair mix of soils here, Tim, but
Jacob Knight: where we are here on Boxwood, it's more of the
Jacob Knight: redder country. But as we get close to Mendooran, we
Jacob Knight: go down into lighter, sandy acid soils. But there's quite
Jacob Knight: a mix here. Boxwood's the first place that my grandfather bought
Jacob Knight: back in '87, I think it was. There's a couple
Jacob Knight: of paddocks up there back there that they're called Lizard
Jacob Knight: and Goanna. Back then, going round for the inspection, the
Jacob Knight: previous vendor said, " We won't even bother going to look
Jacob Knight: at them. You can't run a Goanna up there." But we've
Jacob Knight: got tropicals up there and it's some of our most
Jacob Knight: productive ground, so it's come a long way in those years.
Tim Bartimote: Maybe it's just me, but there's a bit of a
Tim Bartimote: perception that Mendooran country is typically that soupy stuff that
Tim Bartimote: you get stuck in when it's too wet.
Jacob Knight: There's a bit of a mix, and you certainly do
Jacob Knight: get soup and some of that down there does get
Jacob Knight: quite wet. In saying that, some of that sandy country
Jacob Knight: does drain pretty well as well. If you go down, you'll go down,
Jacob Knight: but it's not too bad. We've tried it out in
Jacob Knight: the last couple of years and we haven't had too
Jacob Knight: many major disasters.
Tim Bartimote: That's good to hear. You mentioned that your grandfather bought
Tim Bartimote: the original block, so back in '87 was it?
Jacob Knight: Yeah. I think in '87 they bought this block here, Boxwood, and they
Jacob Knight: bought that there was a couple of sons that wanted
Jacob Knight: to come back on the farm. They had country at
Jacob Knight: Cowra and it was too dear for them to expand
Jacob Knight: enough back there. We moved up here to Mendooran and this block came
Jacob Knight: with a fully working piggery, so they ran that for
Jacob Knight: 15 years or something. In early 2000s, I think we got
Jacob Knight: out of the pigs. It was too much work and
Jacob Knight: no money, so we got rid of them. Since then,
Jacob Knight: we've added a couple of blocks on to Boxwood here
Jacob Knight: to get to where we are today.
Tim Bartimote: Talk us through that transition in enterprises. Because actually, that
Tim Bartimote: reminded me, the audience won't know this, but I actually
Tim Bartimote: did a couple of weeks work experience back here when
Tim Bartimote: I was at school with your old man. I remember
Tim Bartimote: him telling me a bit about the piggery. How's that
Tim Bartimote: been in that, because you were in our conversations that
Tim Bartimote: we've had before, you've mentioned that you're moving towards more
Tim Bartimote: a dual- purpose introduced pasture focus. What's that been like
Tim Bartimote: over the last, since your grandfather bought it till now?
Jacob Knight: I haven't been around as long as they have, but that
Jacob Knight: was before I was born, '87. But I think that there's been
Jacob Knight: a transition I guess. They did the piggery and that was working
Jacob Knight: well for quite a while, but then I think it
Jacob Knight: must have been that the grain prices were going up
Jacob Knight: and the imports were coming in, and that there was just
Jacob Knight: no money in it. Even back then, hard to get
Jacob Knight: someone to look after the pigs that you can trust
Jacob Knight: and go away. They're just so intensive, you can't leave
Jacob Knight: them really. That's probably the idea of being more grazing
Jacob Knight: focused as well. We want this to be a place
Jacob Knight: that is good for us, that we're not tied to.
Jacob Knight: It's been a continual transition, and we're just looking at what
Jacob Knight: suits. And as we've added on, back in 2015 I
Jacob Knight: think was when we bought the last place, which was
Jacob Knight: in between a couple of places that we had, and
Jacob Knight: that nearly doubled our size to where we are now.
Jacob Knight: Coming from there, it's just been a gradual what works
Jacob Knight: for us, what works for the country and I guess
Jacob Knight: where there's a bit of profit as well.
Tim Bartimote: Because how much of your country's currently just cropping? How
Tim Bartimote: much would you put in each year?
Jacob Knight: We've got about 2, 200 hectares here all up. This year, we're
Jacob Knight: probably going to sow probably about half of that, maybe
Jacob Knight: just over half. But we're working towards getting more sown-
Jacob Knight: down pasture and not having to farm as much by
Jacob Knight: sowing tropicals, permanent pasture, as well as on some of
Jacob Knight: this redder country, the better country, well, different country. That's
Jacob Knight: our lucerne block. The lucerne's, currently we're Working towards an eight-
Jacob Knight: year rotation. We're four years lucerne, take it out for
Jacob Knight: four years for typically a canola wheat rotation, and back
Jacob Knight: into lucerne for four years. That's sort of part of
Jacob Knight: it. This year I think there's, I don't know, maybe
Jacob Knight: 400 hectares or so that'll go down to some permanent pasture and
Jacob Knight: some lucerne. What's that? Six or 700 hectares of crop
Jacob Knight: left this year. It was a bit higher last year. Just
Jacob Knight: trying to get country in order and get it sown
Jacob Knight: down to pasture.
Tim Bartimote: Tell me a bit about your tropical. What species are you-
Jacob Knight: Normally the grass is predominantly just digit grass, premier digit
Jacob Knight: grass. We did do a little bit of Rhodes grass
Jacob Knight: back in the day, but haven't done any of that
Jacob Knight: for a long time. Put a bit of Bambatsi in
Jacob Knight: a paddock that was just a bit of a mixed-
Jacob Knight: soil type, and probably would do that again. And then
Jacob Knight: underneath it, it's got the clovers bicerella, a bit of siradella
Jacob Knight: as well, so quite a good mix. And on that country
Jacob Knight: you find it good... A little bit of rain on
Jacob Knight: that lighter country and the tropicals will respond really quickly and
Jacob Knight: grow some good feed. It's probably not as good a feed
Jacob Knight: as the lucerne, but it grows 10 mill rain down
Jacob Knight: there on that sandier country and the digit will go away,
Jacob Knight: but it'll do nothing to a hard lucerne paddock, won't
Jacob Knight: even shoot. It's good having a mix and helps being
Jacob Knight: able to rotate stuff around.
Tim Bartimote: And so how do you find transitioning a paddock into
Tim Bartimote: that premier digit block?
Jacob Knight: It's definitely a learning experience. We've done quite a few
Jacob Knight: different ones. We've had very few total failures to be
Jacob Knight: honest. Sometimes you think, oh this is going to be
Jacob Knight: no good, but then it just seems to come up
Jacob Knight: when it wants to. Typically, the Bob Freeburn style of
Jacob Knight: three years of cropping and following over summer and getting
Jacob Knight: rid of all your weeds and cleaning up the seed
Jacob Knight: bank and then just stick it in and see what happens.
Jacob Knight: Mostly it's been pretty good. We've got another maybe three
Jacob Knight: paddocks or something to put in this year, so we'll
Jacob Knight: do those shortly and see how we go.
Tim Bartimote: And how do you find feeding those pastures? Do you
Tim Bartimote: have to give it a fair bit of urea or
Tim Bartimote: anything like that?
Jacob Knight: Yes, we have been. Ultimately the goal is probably to
Jacob Knight: do the urea most years and maybe the pasture every
Jacob Knight: second year or something like that, so we've done a
Jacob Knight: bit of a mix. Sometimes we've done a blend of
Jacob Knight: single end urea and just put that out so you're
Jacob Knight: only passing over the paddock once. And other times we've
Jacob Knight: done straight, single or straight urea, just depends on what
Jacob Knight: you're trying to feed. It also depends on how the
Jacob Knight: season runs. Season end management, if you've got your summer
Jacob Knight: grass eaten down quite well and you've got space for
Jacob Knight: your legumes to come up, sometimes we get a really
Jacob Knight: good crop of legume and obviously that helps adding nitrogen
Jacob Knight: to the soil. Whereas other times if there's not much
Jacob Knight: of a winter or spring, the legumes have done basically
Jacob Knight: nothing, so you've really got to feed that grass if
Jacob Knight: you want good production out of it. It's also a
Jacob Knight: bit of a... You can decide if you've got the
Jacob Knight: stock and you need the grass, you can put the urea
Jacob Knight: out and you know you're going to get a payback
Jacob Knight: from it. Whereas if you think you've got plenty else,
Jacob Knight: then you can just let it go and chew it
Jacob Knight: off a bit but maybe not get as high a production.
Tim Bartimote: What are your thoughts for 2023?
Jacob Knight: I think we like to hedge our bets a bit.
Jacob Knight: Traditionally we've been going a 50/ 50 blend of MAP in
Jacob Knight: urea through the asada with the seed and that gets
Jacob Knight: it, because nearly all of our cropping is dual purpose
Jacob Knight: cropping, so we go quite early so we can get a
Jacob Knight: graze or a lot of grazing off it and lock
Jacob Knight: it up. But that also just gives you a bit
Jacob Knight: of flexibility so you've got some fur there to get
Jacob Knight: it going and get the early feed off it and
Jacob Knight: then you can top it up as needed really. There's
Jacob Knight: a bit there but you also haven't put it all
Jacob Knight: on, so you've got time to keep adjusting as the
Jacob Knight: seasonal allows.
Tim Bartimote: Jacob, you've mentioned a little bit about dual purpose cropping and
Tim Bartimote: introduce pastures. In terms of the dual purpose, what species
Tim Bartimote: are you using?
Jacob Knight: We've been doing wheat a lot lately, so we've been
Jacob Knight: using mostly Kittyhawk the last couple of years. We've put
Jacob Knight: a bit of Severn in as well or Bennett Wheat
Jacob Knight: and then we're finding them good for grazing and then
Jacob Knight: also grain recovery at the end. Done a bit of
Jacob Knight: the oats as well. We still do a bit of
Jacob Knight: oats on that lighter country. Did a fair bit of
Jacob Knight: trit back in the early days, back in early two
Jacob Knight: thousands, probably 10 or 15 years ago. But we're having a lot
Jacob Knight: of trouble with frosting and we think we've gone to
Jacob Knight: this Kokoda, which we think is probably better for that.
Jacob Knight: We found that Kokoda quite good, grows well, can get
Jacob Knight: good grazing off it and then also good grain recovery
Jacob Knight: on that lighter soil where wheat's not going to do
Jacob Knight: as well.
Tim Bartimote: It was a pretty handy variety actually because I remember
Tim Bartimote: we had a conversation about some of the trials that
Tim Bartimote: we did with that in terms of dry matter production
Tim Bartimote: and that really kicked a few goals.
Jacob Knight: For us, it's a good crop but it's just a ground it
Jacob Knight: suits as well so it's nice to put it there
Jacob Knight: and be able to get good production off the ground
Jacob Knight: as well as grain recovery, so it's good.
Tim Bartimote: Is that particularly aluminum percentages that you're talking about?
Jacob Knight: A bit of aluminum but just that lighter soil, more acid and
Jacob Knight: lighter, lighter sandy soil. The wheat's just not going to do
Jacob Knight: there. Sometimes the trit doesn't either. It just depends on
Jacob Knight: the season as well. But no, it does suit down
Jacob Knight: there a lot better than the wheat. It oats country
Jacob Knight: as well. You could grow oats there no worries. But
Jacob Knight: we are fine with the trit. You get more tons per
Jacob Knight: hectare and it's worth more as well. Sometimes a little
Jacob Knight: bit hard to market it or get rid of it.
Jacob Knight: But profit per hectare, the trit's definitely over the oats.
Tim Bartimote: Just in terms of the grazing?
Jacob Knight: Grazing and grain, both.
Tim Bartimote: What are your thoughts when people say, " Oh, triticale is a
Tim Bartimote: bit hot on stock?"
Jacob Knight: It could be. I don't think it's any worse than wheat, so
Jacob Knight: it's all just about management. Tim, we're feeding it in the feed
Jacob Knight: lot at the moment. It's just about how you get
Jacob Knight: them onto it. I think it is what it is. It's
Jacob Knight: not oats, but we typically don't do a lot of
Jacob Knight: oats either through feed. Sometimes we use oats for induction
Jacob Knight: and then transfer them over to Bali or triticale. Don't
Jacob Knight: often feed wheat. It's more of a premium to sell.
Jacob Knight: But trit seems to be a good middle ground.
Tim Bartimote: And so just touching back to those wheat varieties that
Tim Bartimote: you use, how do you find Bennett particularly requiring... How
Tim Bartimote: do you find that with disease?
Jacob Knight: Last year we didn't grow any Bennett and we probably won't
Jacob Knight: this year either. We switched over to the Severn. I
Jacob Knight: think the Bennett probably was slightly better in terms of
Jacob Knight: production or certainly biomass production anyway in that green grazing
Jacob Knight: phase and probably similar in grain recovery I think. But it's
Jacob Knight: just one of those things you have to manage putting
Jacob Knight: chemical on the fertilizer to try and help with the
Jacob Knight: rust and then spraying it two or three or four
Jacob Knight: times to try and keep it out of it. As
Jacob Knight: technology moves forward, hopefully they'll be able to make newer
Jacob Knight: varieties that produce as much without those issues. But it's
Jacob Knight: just one of those things you've just got to manage
Jacob Knight: them. The reason that we're not doing all of them
Jacob Knight: is, we're just trying to simplify it. You can have
Jacob Knight: 10 different varieties of wheat growing here if you want
Jacob Knight: to. Last year we did a bit of Mustang wheat as
Jacob Knight: well because we were quite wet in the early sowing
Jacob Knight: season so we got the Mustang so we could go a bit
Jacob Knight: later. But we're just trying to get two varieties of
Jacob Knight: wheat if we can keep it simple and go from there.
Tim Bartimote: And have you played around with a bit of grazing
Tim Bartimote: canola as well?
Jacob Knight: We did a little bit of grazing canola. I reckon
Jacob Knight: that might have been five or more years ago, probably
Jacob Knight: might have been nearly 10 years ago. There's definitely benefits
Jacob Knight: there I can see. But the biggest one is animal
Jacob Knight: health. I think we certainly lost a few, we only
Jacob Knight: had sheep at that stage and we lost a few
Jacob Knight: ewes on it, lamb ewes. I think it's management and
Jacob Knight: they will grow well, but you've just got to look
Jacob Knight: after them and be really on top of it, make
Jacob Knight: sure the licks out and make sure they're all going
Jacob Knight: to the lick and they're wean them onto it and
Jacob Knight: maybe have hay access there so they can have a
Jacob Knight: bit of roughage as well. But we've done a few
Jacob Knight: brassica mixes as well with what we call it, a
Jacob Knight: foda mix. Just ryegrass, brassica, a bit of tillage radish,
Jacob Knight: clover, that sort of thing. And we find that quite
Jacob Knight: good because it's a mixed species, they can choose what
Jacob Knight: they want to eat and it grows well.
Tim Bartimote: There's potential to not eliminate but reduce some of the
Tim Bartimote: animal health risks.
Jacob Knight: I think definitely with the mix it helps just not
Jacob Knight: having a straight paddock of canola. It definitely helps to
Jacob Knight: have that variety that they can choose from.
Tim Bartimote: I just want to touch on the fact that you've
Tim Bartimote: got ryegrass that you're sowing. How does it feel doing
Tim Bartimote: a fair bit of cropping, trying to keep that out
Tim Bartimote: of one paddock and putting it in another?
Jacob Knight: It's interesting. Just finished up our spray program at the
Jacob Knight: moment and you're always just trying to get weed, ryegrass
Jacob Knight: and summer weed and all that sort of stuff and
Jacob Knight: then you go and plant ryegrass. It does feel funny
Jacob Knight: but it's also, that's a mixed business. We're not a
Jacob Knight: straight cropping farm and we're not a straight livestock farm,
Jacob Knight: so there's always compromises one way or another. And the
Jacob Knight: ryegrass has been growing well for us the last few
Jacob Knight: years that we've planted as well. Quite productive and pretty
Jacob Knight: good feed. Those sown introduced species are certainly better than
Jacob Knight: the stuff we're trying to spray, so it is different
Jacob Knight: there. That's actually sown for feed, not just a weed.
Tim Bartimote: You've mentioned that you've probably moved a little bit from
Tim Bartimote: a more heavily cropping focus to a grazing focus. Can
Tim Bartimote: you explain what the thinking is there?
Jacob Knight: Typically, we've done cropping but it's always been... It's been
Jacob Knight: a mixed business and it's dual purpose cropping a lot.
Jacob Knight: I think we're probably just moving away from the cropping
Jacob Knight: a little bit, both for labor reasons, just for logistics
Jacob Knight: when you're trying to sow and harvest and spray and
Jacob Knight: stall grain and all of that stuff. Also for lifestyle, it's
Jacob Knight: a bit less stress with the grazing business, you've got
Jacob Knight: a bit more time to react and manage where we
Jacob Knight: are. We're just dry land, if it doesn't rain. And
Jacob Knight: then the risk as well, I think, so if it
Jacob Knight: doesn't rain you get nothing off a crop. Whereas at
Jacob Knight: least with the dual purpose crop you've got grazing off
Jacob Knight: nearly always. We'll get some grazing off and then you
Jacob Knight: can just do what you want with your stock. You
Jacob Knight: can feed them through the drought. In '18, '19, '20... '17, '18 '19, we
Jacob Knight: fed all the ewes and we made that choice and
Jacob Knight: we kept reassessing and looking at it. But you don't
Jacob Knight: have a lot of choices or options with the cropping.
Jacob Knight: You do, there are options there if either grazing it
Jacob Knight: or cutting it for hay or that sort of thing,
Jacob Knight: but you're really reliant on what happens from the sky.
Tim Bartimote: Jacob, you mentioned before that you've got a bit of
Tim Bartimote: a prime lamb operation as part of your bigger mixed
Tim Bartimote: enterprise. Can you explain the process you go through there?
Jacob Knight: For the last I think 10 years we've just been
Jacob Knight: buying our first cross ewes in, so we just buy
Jacob Knight: them in each year and put a ram over them
Jacob Knight: and try and grow as many big fat lambs as
Jacob Knight: we can. We've got options here as well. We can
Jacob Knight: take them out to heavyweights or a few times over
Jacob Knight: the last few years we've sold them as store lambs
Jacob Knight: and they're really good lambs. It's quite a simple operation, just
Jacob Knight: buy the ewes and grow lambs.
Tim Bartimote: What ram you bring in?
Jacob Knight: We put in a White Suffolk over the first cross year.
Tim Bartimote: And is there a particular reason why you take that
Tim Bartimote: approach? Is it purely because of the simplicity of it?
Jacob Knight: Probably the simplicity. That's what we have been doing. We're
Jacob Knight: always looking at different ideas and different options and not
Jacob Knight: just with the sheep but cropping or anything else, you've
Jacob Knight: always got to keep reevaluating. You can't just keep doing
Jacob Knight: the same thing just because you're doing the same thing.
Jacob Knight: But with the ewes it's quite simple. You buy in
Jacob Knight: the ewes and we've been buying from the same place
Jacob Knight: for quite a long time. We've got a good relationship
Jacob Knight: there and we know what genetics we've got and we
Jacob Knight: know that we grow good lambs and they will perform
Jacob Knight: well. Yes, that's just been how we've been doing it.
Tim Bartimote: And you've already touched on this slightly, but how did
Tim Bartimote: you go about... What was your decision process in the
Tim Bartimote: drought? Did you try to keep as many as you could?
Jacob Knight: Yeah, that's the way we looked at it and we
Jacob Knight: did, we kept reevaluating it. In the end, we did
Jacob Knight: keep nearly all of the ewes through. We might have
Jacob Knight: called a little bit harder, but we didn't sell off
Jacob Knight: a mob of ewes as ewes. We kept looking at
Jacob Knight: it and we knew that when the rains came they
Jacob Knight: sheep would get deer again and it would get harder
Jacob Knight: to get back into them. And I guess because we
Jacob Knight: have focused on genetics, we knew what we had and
Jacob Knight: they weren't just any ewes that we wanted to get
Jacob Knight: rid of, we wanted to look after them and keep
Jacob Knight: them. But we kept looking at it and we still
Jacob Knight: joined and lamb down through the drought and got some
Jacob Knight: pretty good results surprisingly. But we learned a lot too,
Jacob Knight: through that. It was just a decision that we made
Jacob Knight: and kept coming back to and kept deciding that it
Jacob Knight: was a reasonable thing and it turned out pretty good
Jacob Knight: when it rained we had the ewes there and we let
Jacob Knight: them out and away we went.
Tim Bartimote: What are some of the things that you did learn
Tim Bartimote: from that experience?
Jacob Knight: There's just all sorts of different things to do with
Jacob Knight: joining to do with feeding, to do with lambing down
Jacob Knight: in the feed lot and we were feeding ewes as they were
Jacob Knight: lambing in a small feedlot paddock. Lots of things that
Jacob Knight: aren't ideal but it is doable and you can do
Jacob Knight: it again if you want to. It's just I guess
Jacob Knight: the knowledge that you've got there that it's possible. It
Jacob Knight: just allows you to make decisions, Tim. You just don't
Jacob Knight: want to be forced into a decision I think, and that
Jacob Knight: doesn't matter whether it's sheep or cropping or whatever else,
Jacob Knight: you want to have time to be able to make
Jacob Knight: a good decision or foresight. You don't want to be
Jacob Knight: forced to sell because your stock are too skinny and
Jacob Knight: you get no money for them anyway. It's a decision
Jacob Knight: that you make, so to have that as another tool
Jacob Knight: that you can use is definitely helpful.
Tim Bartimote: You mentioned having being able to make a decision and
Tim Bartimote: not be forced into a situation. What enabled you to
Tim Bartimote: do that?
Jacob Knight: I think we're still learning as we're going, Tim. But
Jacob Knight: it's just looking at it, dad's quite good on this
Jacob Knight: as well. He looks at his numbers and he figures
Jacob Knight: out how much is it going to cost to feed
Jacob Knight: them, how much return are we going to get from them if
Jacob Knight: we're joining them and lambing them down? How much is
Jacob Knight: it going to cost to get back into them when
Jacob Knight: the drought does break? Because it's always going to rain
Jacob Knight: again, it's just a matter of when. It's a focus
Jacob Knight: on numbers and it's a numbers game. Yes, we wanted
Jacob Knight: to keep them because we like our ewes and they're
Jacob Knight: good genetics ewes that we've paid for so we didn't
Jacob Knight: want to sell them. But looking at it and reevaluating
Jacob Knight: it and knowing what we can do with them, allowed
Jacob Knight: us to make good numbers- based decisions around what we
Jacob Knight: should be doing.
Tim Bartimote: It's that idea of always self- evaluating what you're doing.
Tim Bartimote: Is this going to work? Is this going to work
Tim Bartimote: out all right, if we're buying in feed? Are we
Tim Bartimote: going to be able to cash in on the end?
Jacob Knight: Like I said before, you've got to keep... Even with
Jacob Knight: the enterprises, you've just got to keep reevaluating and seeing
Jacob Knight: how things change. It hurts when you're buying a B-
Jacob Knight: double, a week of grain and it's over $400 a ton.
Jacob Knight: That hurts when you're feeding a lot of sheep. But
Jacob Knight: if you can justify it, financially and business- wise, then
Jacob Knight: that's okay. But you've just got to keep coming back
Jacob Knight: to it and looking at it, doing your numbers, seeing
Jacob Knight: what's happening.
Tim Bartimote: It's that old adage of it's all right to spend
Tim Bartimote: money as long as you're making money at the other end.
Jacob Knight: That's right. You've got to look at it for the
Jacob Knight: long run and see rather than just, " Oh well I've
Jacob Knight: got them here, so I better buy another load of
Jacob Knight: grain so I can feed them." We had all the
Jacob Knight: lambs in the feed lot as well and we knew
Jacob Knight: what they were doing, how they were performing. We took
Jacob Knight: a few contracts so we knew what was going to
Jacob Knight: be coming in and so you can figure it all out.
Jacob Knight: Takes a lot of management and I think we learned
Jacob Knight: a lot through it as well.
Tim Bartimote: And so understanding all that, how are you feeling with current
Tim Bartimote: prices backing off a little?
Jacob Knight: It's always interesting and I think that's one of the
Jacob Knight: challenges that we have to deal with as farmers. We
Jacob Knight: don't really get to choose what our stuff costs to
Jacob Knight: buy. Fertilizer's coming back a bit now, but the last 12,
Jacob Knight: 18 months has been crazy for fertilizer prices historically. And
Jacob Knight: we don't get to choose what we sell things at
Jacob Knight: really. There's a bit of flexibility there, especially with storing
Jacob Knight: grain. But with lambs, the lambs are ready when they're
Jacob Knight: there, when they're ready. And you sell them at the price
Jacob Knight: you can get. There is contracts and that sort of thing,
Jacob Knight: but sometimes it's just unavoidable. Lambs aren't bad at the
Jacob Knight: moment really historically, but they've pulled back a bit definitely
Jacob Knight: from what they were. But as I said before, you've
Jacob Knight: just got to keep looking at it. Can you make
Jacob Knight: money out of our system of buying ewes and selling
Jacob Knight: lambs or how's the trade cattle looking? Or do you
Jacob Knight: make some more hay this year or what is it?
Jacob Knight: You just got to keep looking at it and doing your
Jacob Knight: figures and doing your numbers and seeing how it all
Jacob Knight: works for where you're at.
Tim Bartimote: And so is that one of the benefits of having
Tim Bartimote: this mixed enterprise is, you have that flexibility to be like, "
Tim Bartimote: Oh, this part of the business isn't doing and crash
Tim Bartimote: up because of this market where shift back put a
Tim Bartimote: bit more emphasis back on the cropping side of things."
Tim Bartimote: Or vice versa, or you don't have as much flexibility as that?
Jacob Knight: There's definitely some flexibility there, but I think it's a
Jacob Knight: mixed farm is interesting. I think I said to you before, there's
Jacob Knight: always compromises in a mixed farm, which is okay, that's
Jacob Knight: the business that we run. But what's best for the
Jacob Knight: cropping enterprise may not be best for the sheep enterprise.
Jacob Knight: You've just got to figure out your priorities and be
Jacob Knight: able to shift your focus. It's a benefit, but it's
Jacob Knight: also requires more management, I think than just a single
Jacob Knight: enterprise business.
Tim Bartimote: Okay. It feels like you got a few more balls in
Tim Bartimote: the air.
Jacob Knight: I guess so. And that's why we try and spread the
Jacob Knight: management out more on the cropping pasture machinery side of the
Jacob Knight: business and my brother and dad are more on the
Jacob Knight: livestock grazing side. It's about dividing that management but then
Jacob Knight: also coming together and making the decisions as a team,
Jacob Knight: as a whole farm business really to figure out what's
Jacob Knight: going to be best for the business as a whole,
Jacob Knight: not just the singular enterprise.
Tim Bartimote: Does that mean you get to spend more time in
Tim Bartimote: an air- conditioned cab and they spend more time in
Tim Bartimote: the outs?
Jacob Knight: Yeah, probably Tim. Most of the tractor seat hours, is me.
Tim Bartimote: Jacob, it was great to have a chat with you
Tim Bartimote: and learn a bit more about Boxwood and the family
Tim Bartimote: farm out here. But yeah, appreciate your time mate.
Jacob Knight: No, thanks for coming out, Tim. Good on you.
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