WEBVTT - Hard-seeded legumes: Farmer experience on how this pasture can fit in your cropping system [REBROADCAST] 0:00:06.390 --> 0:00:09.510 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.510 --> 0:00:12.449 a good yarn about Ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.450 --> 0:00:15.179 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.179 --> 0:00:18.389 in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements, 0:00:18.539 --> 0:00:22.380 making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll get a 0:00:22.380 --> 0:00:24.900 laugh out of some of their stories and also pick 0:00:24.900 --> 0:00:27.929 up some know- how along the way. I'm your host, 0:00:28.050 --> 0:00:36.239 Neroli Brennan. Today, we are chatting with Paul Sinderberry . Paul, along 0:00:36.239 --> 0:00:39.990 with his wife and daughter, farm at Karawatha, 50 kilometers 0:00:39.990 --> 0:00:45.180 north of Condobolin. They run a traditional mixed farm with wheat, canola, 0:00:45.450 --> 0:00:48.600 and pulse cropping, as well as running commercial and stud 0:00:48.659 --> 0:00:52.469 Angus cattle. In this episode, you'll hear how their stud 0:00:52.469 --> 0:00:56.700 cattle operation, Moogenilla Angus, was part of the impetus behind 0:00:56.700 --> 0:01:00.240 their investigation and trialing of hard- seeded legumes within their 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.959 pasture system. The low bloating nature of some hard- seeded 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.459 pasture legumes, such as Biserrula and serradella, was very attractive to 0:01:08.459 --> 0:01:12.600 Paul's operation after he lost expensive stud animals on bloating, 0:01:12.660 --> 0:01:17.130 legume pastures like lucerne and clover. Paul also shares with 0:01:17.130 --> 0:01:21.119 us some useful tips if considering growing hard- seeded legumes 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.199 on your own farm. Local land services mixed farming officer, 0:01:25.349 --> 0:01:29.429 Rohan Leach, join Paul on the lounge at Karawatha over 0:01:29.430 --> 0:01:32.430 a cuppa and a toasted sandwich to bring you this 0:01:32.430 --> 0:01:33.060 great chat. 0:01:35.790 --> 0:01:38.130 Paul, welcome to the Seeds for Success podcast. 0:01:38.250 --> 0:01:40.289 Thanks, Rowan. We've got a beautiful day here and thanks 0:01:40.289 --> 0:01:40.650 for coming out. 0:01:40.950 --> 0:01:43.200 Mate, do you mind telling the listeners where we are 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:44.160 and what you do? 0:01:44.370 --> 0:01:48.570 Yeah. Karawatha, we're about 50Ks north of Condobolin, Central New South Wales. We're 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.740 a mix farm, cropping and cattle and breed bulls. We've 0:01:52.740 --> 0:01:55.320 got two properties. Yeah, the home block is about six 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:56.580 and a half thousand hectares. 0:01:58.950 --> 0:01:58.951 And that's Karawatha? 0:01:58.951 --> 0:02:02.790 Yeah. Karawatha and then about 60Ks northwest near Babinda, got another block there. It's about four and a 0:02:02.790 --> 0:02:06.150 half thousand hectares. And yeah, we're running cattle and cropping out there 0:02:06.150 --> 0:02:07.110 to tidy the place up too. 0:02:07.410 --> 0:02:09.270 Yep. What are some of your soil types here? 0:02:09.510 --> 0:02:13.859 Typical red soils, sandy clay loams. Yeah, low phosphorus, low 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:19.048 nitrogen and yeah, typically 4. 8 to about 5.5 pH. 0:02:19.650 --> 0:02:22.109 Fairly acid, like probably the majority of the state, west of the hill. 0:02:22.770 --> 0:02:24.810 Yeah. As we're finding, getting more acid all the time. 0:02:25.110 --> 0:02:27.779 We've got a liming program going as well when it rains. 0:02:28.110 --> 0:02:32.520 Yeah, our rainfall, we're about 425 mills average. Now we 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.009 can grow good crops and yeah, grow good pastures as well when it rains. 0:02:35.610 --> 0:02:36.870 Do you mind just telling me a bit about your 0:02:36.870 --> 0:02:38.490 cropping program? What crops do you grow? 0:02:38.730 --> 0:02:41.340 Yeah, so I mean the basis is wheat, but yeah, 0:02:41.340 --> 0:02:44.940 wheat, canola, field peas, a bit of barley, sometimes chickpeas. 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.570 This year, we're got about four and a half thousand hectares 0:02:48.570 --> 0:02:51.120 in. We're trying to tidy up some country at the 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:52.679 moment as well. But yeah, about four and a half 0:02:52.679 --> 0:02:55.590 thousand hectares of crop, and about 700 breeders. 0:02:55.830 --> 0:02:57.508 That sounds like a big job, mate. What's your business 0:02:57.508 --> 0:02:59.399 structure and people involved in the business? 0:02:59.549 --> 0:03:02.220 Sarah and I, we've over the years, developed a bit 0:03:02.220 --> 0:03:04.440 of a system I suppose. She's in charge of the 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.270 cattle, I'm in charge of the cropping. Yeah. We can 0:03:06.270 --> 0:03:08.280 discuss what happens in between with the pastures and that 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.219 sort of thing. We've got two full- time employees and 0:03:11.219 --> 0:03:13.890 my daughter's involved as well. She's partnered with one of the 0:03:14.008 --> 0:03:16.201 employees, Brett, and they live on the block out near Babinda. 0:03:16.201 --> 0:03:20.280 Sarah looks after the cattle and you look after the 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.770 cropping. You come together When it comes for the pasture 0:03:22.770 --> 0:03:23.041 stuff though, I think. 0:03:23.041 --> 0:03:28.289 Oh yeah, no, as I say, we got to always try and maximize your returns, 0:03:28.290 --> 0:03:31.020 maximize the efficiency. Yeah, so we grow grazing crops with 0:03:31.230 --> 0:03:33.179 the cattle. Yeah, when you're trying to run two enterprises, 0:03:33.179 --> 0:03:35.070 you've got to make compromises. Yeah. Right at the moment, 0:03:35.129 --> 0:03:38.070 we're finding Illabo wheat's going really well on the grazing side 0:03:38.070 --> 0:03:40.410 of things. And that's yeah, pretty much how I got into the Biserrula 0:03:41.220 --> 0:03:43.470 and that. We under- sew all of our crops when 0:03:43.470 --> 0:03:46.049 they go out traditionally with lucerne and rose clover in 0:03:46.050 --> 0:03:48.810 particular. And they'll be out for five to seven years 0:03:48.870 --> 0:03:51.059 until the lucerne thins out and then yeah, come back 0:03:51.059 --> 0:03:52.949 into the croppy again. Yeah, along the way, you got to 0:03:52.949 --> 0:03:54.780 make compromises, but that's generally how it works. 0:03:55.410 --> 0:03:58.290 I've just noticed that you said the Biserrula there, so I'll 0:03:58.290 --> 0:04:01.320 seize on that. That's a great segue into my next 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.079 topic. You are tied up with the Central West farming 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.200 Systems producer demonstration site this year. Do you mind sort 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.300 of explaining what your involvement is there? 0:04:09.300 --> 0:04:13.890 I guess, yeah, for a while I'd been on the hunt for some pasture 0:04:13.950 --> 0:04:16.680 other than lucerne. Basically, we run Angus cattle breed bulls, 0:04:16.710 --> 0:04:19.290 we can grow really good pastures. And occasionally, the pastures 0:04:19.290 --> 0:04:20.910 are too hot and now we have lots of issues 0:04:20.910 --> 0:04:24.000 with bloat. We've got ways of managing that with bloat 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.729 oil and hay and that sort of thing. But there's just times, anyway, 0:04:26.730 --> 0:04:29.279 it's a compromise. I've been on hunt for a while 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.670 to try to find something different. And I came across Biserrula and 0:04:32.850 --> 0:04:37.470 serradella. Did some research. Talked to some good people, particularly 0:04:37.529 --> 0:04:40.380 Dr. Belinda Hackney, who helped me a lot. And yeah, 0:04:40.380 --> 0:04:43.738 we ended up sewing some trial sites here and out 0:04:43.740 --> 0:04:47.039 of that by Biserrula and serradella. And probably particularly the Biserrula have done 0:04:47.039 --> 0:04:49.799 really, really well. Then non- bloating, so of it's going 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.469 really well through that. Then Central West Farming Systems came 0:04:52.470 --> 0:04:54.868 on and MLA, gave us a hand and supplied us with 0:04:54.870 --> 0:04:56.969 some seed and stuff like that. And now we're working 0:04:56.970 --> 0:05:01.620 at integrating those Biserrula pastures with the cropping system and 0:05:01.860 --> 0:05:06.930 possibly replacing the pulses with Biserrula. That's where, yeah, MLA's showing 0:05:07.050 --> 0:05:07.710 an interest. Yeah. 0:05:08.070 --> 0:05:10.650 Yeah, cool. Because we've gone for a little drive around 0:05:10.650 --> 0:05:13.500 this morning and I noticed that you had a dam 0:05:13.500 --> 0:05:15.479 fenced off and you had bloat troughs and that sort 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.178 of stuff in a paddock of lucerne. You were doing all 0:05:18.178 --> 0:05:20.519 the right things I guess, and with hay and whatever, 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.099 but you just still found that risk of bloat just 0:05:23.100 --> 0:05:24.329 too high with the lucerne? 0:05:24.570 --> 0:05:26.969 It's just that unknowing. I mean, yeah, you can go 0:05:27.089 --> 0:05:29.040 90% of the time, you're absolutely fine. And then the 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.740 one morning that you go out and it's not fine, that 0:05:31.740 --> 0:05:34.080 hurts. And particularly even from an animal welfare point of 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.479 view, but an economic point of view now with the price 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.238 of cattle and that, it really hurts. Yeah, we're just always 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:40.080 looking for alternatives. 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.509 Yeah. Have you got any horror stories about bloat? 0:05:42.900 --> 0:05:46.170 We haven't really. The odd one, certainly no large numbers, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.020 which has been good. But financially we've lost a couple 0:05:49.020 --> 0:05:50.850 of very valuable animals. Yeah, that hurts a lot, 0:05:51.270 --> 0:05:54.178 It would do, particularly at this time in the cycle 0:05:54.178 --> 0:05:57.330 of Angus prices. They've seen some pretty crazy prices. And 0:05:57.389 --> 0:05:59.520 you guys hear yourself at moving a lot of Angus. 0:05:59.580 --> 0:06:01.560 Yeah. You guys had been doing all right as well. 0:06:02.100 --> 0:06:04.410 Can you tell me when did you first sow your first 0:06:04.410 --> 0:06:08.490 crop of these hard- seeded legumes Biserrula and serradella and a few others 0:06:08.490 --> 0:06:08.820 was it? 0:06:09.180 --> 0:06:12.900 Yeah, 2017. I went to a couple of presentations days 0:06:12.900 --> 0:06:17.190 where yeah, Linda Hackney was speaking. Yeah, it was through discussions with her. She 0:06:17.190 --> 0:06:20.640 suggested that we try, instead of just sewing one or 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.690 two things, whatever, try a paddock, single species strips and 0:06:24.750 --> 0:06:29.430 just see what performed. Yeah. In 1785 hectare paddock and 0:06:29.460 --> 0:06:32.640 we sewed I think seven different species just in single 0:06:32.670 --> 0:06:35.400 lines. Tried to work it so it was the sewing 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.230 matched up with boom spray wits if we needed to 0:06:37.230 --> 0:06:41.730 spray it. And we had arrowleaf clover and Biserrula and bladder clover, 0:06:41.790 --> 0:06:45.719 gland, two types of serradella, rose clover. And so, that was 0:06:45.719 --> 0:06:48.060 really interesting because yeah, we sewed them, they all grew. 0:06:48.089 --> 0:06:51.570 People remember 2017 in this area, it started well off 0:06:51.570 --> 0:06:52.469 the back of '16. 0:06:52.890 --> 0:06:54.330 We had a good autumn that year, didn't we? 0:06:54.331 --> 0:06:56.010 Yeah, we had a pretty good autumn. Everything got off 0:06:56.010 --> 0:06:57.810 to a good start. And then basically, just about the 0:06:57.810 --> 0:06:59.969 middle of the year it just stopped raining. And then we had 0:06:59.970 --> 0:07:01.800 a heap of frosts, a lot of crop got frosted. 0:07:02.610 --> 0:07:05.370 It was pretty hard on the pastures. But straight up 0:07:05.370 --> 0:07:09.509 from that I was really impressed with the growth and 0:07:09.509 --> 0:07:13.620 the length of season that the Biserrula and serradella in particular 0:07:13.620 --> 0:07:15.960 had. Arrow leaf clover looked good at the time. Rose 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.270 clover did what it always does. It's good ground cover 0:07:18.270 --> 0:07:20.040 but then cut out really quickly. On the back of 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.310 that, I actually bought another ton of serradella and sewed 0:07:23.310 --> 0:07:27.210 that into a different paddock. Unfortunately, that didn't go so well. Basically didn't rain. I 0:07:27.210 --> 0:07:28.950 think we must have had just enough small rains that 0:07:28.980 --> 0:07:31.710 it germinated, a bit of a downer. But then late 0:07:31.710 --> 0:07:34.470 in '18 we had an inch of rain, October or 0:07:34.470 --> 0:07:37.560 something. And all of a sudden the Biserrula I'd say 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.839 in the previous year just bounced back and took off. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.759 And I was actually able to graze that paddock a 0:07:41.759 --> 0:07:44.219 bit, just pretty much on that. I thought that was 0:07:44.219 --> 0:07:46.770 pretty amazing. Then we went through '19. And '19 just got worse. 0:07:46.799 --> 0:07:49.380 Pretty much didn't see anything in '19. And so, by 0:07:49.380 --> 0:07:51.210 the end of that thinking, " Oh, well, okay. This is all that was 0:07:51.270 --> 0:07:52.710 good fun, but nothing's going to come of it." 0:07:52.710 --> 0:07:53.730 Fun while it lasted. Yeah. 0:07:53.730 --> 0:07:57.990 Fun while it lasted. That paddock we sewed oats into 0:07:57.990 --> 0:08:00.360 in '20 when it started raining, early '20. And we sewed 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.429 oats into... And then even as I'm sewing the oats, 0:08:02.429 --> 0:08:03.960 I was just looking on the ground and going, " Wow, 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.479 what's all that stuff coming up?" And it was in 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.660 particular the Biserrula. It just bounced back. It was amazing. Yeah, went up 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.390 with a fantastic crop of oats that we grazed really 0:08:12.390 --> 0:08:16.320 heavily and in particular that was the Biserrula and the yellow Santorini 0:08:16.559 --> 0:08:19.710 serradella just worked for us. And it was now different places, 0:08:19.710 --> 0:08:21.149 different things are going to work for different people in 0:08:21.150 --> 0:08:23.459 different soils and whatever. But on our place, that's just 0:08:23.459 --> 0:08:25.860 what's really standing out. When the other ones pretty much disappeared 0:08:25.860 --> 0:08:27.960 and you'll see bits and pieces of them. But those 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.700 two in particular just really stood out. 0:08:30.150 --> 0:08:33.660 Yeah. That's advice from Belinda of just sow a few 0:08:33.660 --> 0:08:36.780 different types in strips really worked out for you. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.000 Yeah. Absolutely. Because yeah, I'm sure I hear lots of 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.850 stories of arrowleaf clover working really well for other people 0:08:41.850 --> 0:08:44.250 in different places. And those other ones, they're obviously all 0:08:44.250 --> 0:08:47.010 out there for a reason, but just in our environment 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.230 it just seems that this is what works for us. 0:08:49.260 --> 0:08:50.910 Yeah. And so I've gone on with that. Yeah, we've got 0:08:50.910 --> 0:08:53.670 a few paddocks of straight Biserrula. In and I'm now 0:08:53.670 --> 0:08:56.880 sewing Biserrula with lucerne. Wherever we under- sew lucerne I'm 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.179 sewing Biserrula to hopefully, we'll still need to provide that 0:09:00.179 --> 0:09:02.488 gap filler because that's loosened things out. Instead of having 0:09:02.490 --> 0:09:04.500 weeds grow, it's good if we have something beneficial that 0:09:04.500 --> 0:09:07.860 grows. And also, hopefully the Biserrula then tames down the 0:09:07.860 --> 0:09:08.999 bloat risk of the lucerne. 0:09:09.359 --> 0:09:12.600 Yep. The Biserrula has got something called condensed tannins in it. 0:09:12.929 --> 0:09:14.819 That while it makes it a little bit not as 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.639 tasty to eat, not as palatable maybe as something like 0:09:17.639 --> 0:09:20.100 a sub- clover, yeah, that helps with the bloat. 0:09:20.790 --> 0:09:24.330 Yeah. And I've had other people say, " Oh, now the Biserrula, 0:09:24.809 --> 0:09:27.150 it's not palatable or something." But I don't know from what 0:09:27.150 --> 0:09:29.639 I've seen, our cattle love it. There's places where they've 0:09:29.639 --> 0:09:31.858 got options, tree lines and there's plenty of grass around 0:09:31.860 --> 0:09:33.358 at the moment and stuff. And they still seem to 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.108 hammer the Biserrula and we've seen, won't say none, but 0:09:37.110 --> 0:09:38.670 very, very little signs of bloat with it. 0:09:38.670 --> 0:09:42.420 We've been driving around this morning and walked through some probably- 0:09:42.420 --> 0:09:45.150 knee high paddocks of Biserrula. it looks pretty magic here 0:09:45.150 --> 0:09:46.980 at this time of year. What are you planning to do 0:09:46.980 --> 0:09:48.120 with that stuff you've locked up? 0:09:48.690 --> 0:09:52.529 We've been harvesting. Paddock I sewed in 2020, we harvested 0:09:52.529 --> 0:09:55.108 it now the last two years, got seed off. And then yeah, so 0:09:55.110 --> 0:09:57.450 I'm now using that to spread everywhere else. That's a 0:09:57.450 --> 0:10:00.870 really good economic gain and cost reduction. To be able 0:10:00.870 --> 0:10:03.780 to graze the paddocks during the year, then lock them up 0:10:03.929 --> 0:10:06.509 and get seed. And so that's makes it look pretty 0:10:06.509 --> 0:10:07.680 good for a pulse replacement. 0:10:07.860 --> 0:10:09.659 Yep. And so how have they been yielding? 0:10:09.990 --> 0:10:13.980 Probably on average, about 100 kgs a hectare. I think that's 0:10:13.980 --> 0:10:14.939 probably what I'm getting off. Yeah. 0:10:15.090 --> 0:10:17.730 Yep. And are you using all of that seed? Are you 0:10:17.730 --> 0:10:18.990 selling any surplus seed? 0:10:19.170 --> 0:10:22.410 Yeah, I've been selling, yeah, some seed just locally pretty much. 0:10:22.469 --> 0:10:23.760 I was spreading it around the west of the state. 0:10:23.790 --> 0:10:26.909 But yeah, just friends and other people, anyone who's inquiring. 0:10:26.910 --> 0:10:28.859 But no, we've spread a fair bit of seed around 0:10:28.859 --> 0:10:29.309 the place. Yeah. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.078 Is it difficult to harvest? 0:10:31.170 --> 0:10:33.689 Yes and no. It's difficult to get it in the header 0:10:33.929 --> 0:10:35.458 or in the box I should say. No, it's been 0:10:35.460 --> 0:10:37.440 pretty easy. I have to thank Mike O'Hare down at 0:10:37.500 --> 0:10:39.660 Beckham for giving me some pointers. No, we've just been 0:10:39.660 --> 0:10:43.319 going in in January, February hitting, going up with the hay 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.350 rake, just raking it up into windrows. And then using pickup 0:10:46.350 --> 0:10:48.330 front, putting it into the header. That bit's all easy. 0:10:48.420 --> 0:10:50.280 The hardest part then is trying to get the seed out of the pod. 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.978 And it's got a really thick leathery pod that doesn't really want 0:10:52.980 --> 0:10:55.679 to split open. Yeah, I mean that 100 kilos a hectare I've been 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.530 getting, I reckon that it would've been three or 400 kilos in the paddock, of 0:10:58.530 --> 0:11:01.350 which I've just spread back around again. But yeah, we get to take a bit of it. 0:11:01.350 --> 0:11:03.659 Yeah. Probably not the worst thing for the sustainability of 0:11:03.660 --> 0:11:05.729 the system to leave a bit behind. But yeah, I 0:11:05.730 --> 0:11:08.429 guess you're probably more thinking a bit short term by 0:11:08.429 --> 0:11:10.079 just getting as much as you can year to year. 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.559 Yeah. Oh yeah, no, it's an area we definitely want to improve. We're going 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.929 to keep trying some different things. Yeah, it'd be really 0:11:15.929 --> 0:11:17.338 nice if we can get some more of that seed, 0:11:17.429 --> 0:11:17.880 for sure. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.429 And you also said that you've just bought yourself a 0:11:20.429 --> 0:11:22.770 new seed cleaner. Do you mind talking about that? 0:11:23.129 --> 0:11:24.598 No, it's pretty simple. You're going to put me on 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.520 the spot because I've forgotten the name of it. It's 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.720 just an air one. And just, yeah, it's got a fan, the seed 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.880 flow drops through the fan. And it actually does a really good job of 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.280 sizing seed. Because all the lighter stuff blows out the 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.379 back and the heavier stuff drops straight away. Even with 0:11:37.380 --> 0:11:39.390 wheat and pulses and stuff like that, you get your 0:11:39.509 --> 0:11:41.010 heavy seed all up the front and all the light 0:11:41.010 --> 0:11:44.250 stuff gets blown out. It's been quite beneficial just as a help 0:11:44.250 --> 0:11:46.290 as a pre- cleaner and stuff. I can do all 0:11:46.290 --> 0:11:47.701 my wheat seeding and that with it. 0:11:47.701 --> 0:11:50.578 Yeah, so what are your plans going forward to get 0:11:50.580 --> 0:11:53.099 your harvest a bit better? Maybe any tips on maybe 0:11:53.099 --> 0:11:55.828 desiccation or windrowing or anything like that? 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.458 Yeah. Hopefully, I'm going to try that this year is we're going to try 0:11:59.458 --> 0:12:02.338 and desiccate as soon as the crop's 90% ripe or 0:12:02.340 --> 0:12:06.480 something, we'll try and desiccate. And I believe maybe at 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.779 that stage that the pods might be more brittle, got 0:12:09.780 --> 0:12:12.269 a stripper front coming. And I keep hearing stories where 0:12:12.270 --> 0:12:14.490 everyone says how wonderful stripper fronts are for picking up 0:12:14.490 --> 0:12:16.859 down crops. This one looks pretty much like a down 0:12:16.859 --> 0:12:18.960 crop to me. I'm hoping, yeah, if we run it 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.858 that we might be able to help pluck the seeds off and these 0:12:22.860 --> 0:12:24.990 pods off. And if they're brittle enough, shatter and then 0:12:24.990 --> 0:12:25.920 we'll be able to get them in the box. Yeah. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.909 Yeah. You've got experience with chickpeas and field peas in 0:12:29.910 --> 0:12:32.519 the past. How does this crop compare to them? 0:12:32.879 --> 0:12:35.429 Yeah, well, I suppose it will just be, just like 0:12:35.429 --> 0:12:38.670 peas, when it matures, it all just falls down. It's all knee- 0:12:38.670 --> 0:12:41.160 high plus at the moment, but as it matures that'll 0:12:41.190 --> 0:12:44.639 go back down to our ankles. Yeah, pretty similar from 0:12:44.639 --> 0:12:48.179 that front. But then, yeah, with this pod situation, I 0:12:48.179 --> 0:12:49.949 mean it's not like you're worrying about seed cracking or 0:12:49.950 --> 0:12:52.619 anything like that. Not even really worried about shatter out the front 0:12:52.619 --> 0:12:55.800 either. It's more about actually trying to get the pods 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.110 to break open. We're mucking out, doing some things, mucking 0:12:58.110 --> 0:13:01.020 around with concaves and that. Trying to close concaves up or put a 0:13:01.020 --> 0:13:03.540 wire mesh in there. You can try some stuff like that. 0:13:03.630 --> 0:13:04.858 Mate, it sounds like I need to come out here 0:13:04.860 --> 0:13:07.769 in another six months and talk to you after harvest. 0:13:07.770 --> 0:13:10.439 It sounds like a constant learning experience with something new 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:11.310 and exciting like this. 0:13:11.458 --> 0:13:13.468 It is a big learning experience, which is really enjoyable. 0:13:13.470 --> 0:13:15.449 I mean that's a fantastic thing about farming is just 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.300 we're all learning all the time and try new things, 0:13:18.300 --> 0:13:19.679 but I am a bit excited about this crop. I 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.078 think it's showing a lot of potential to then become 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.910 part of our cropping system. And the fact that you've 0:13:23.910 --> 0:13:25.559 only got to sell it once and once you've got 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.179 it, it's there. I think going forward, that's going to 0:13:27.179 --> 0:13:27.629 be really good. 0:13:27.719 --> 0:13:29.639 Yeah, it's interesting that you call it a crop and 0:13:29.639 --> 0:13:31.770 you talk about it as if it's a crop. We've 0:13:31.770 --> 0:13:34.530 gone straight into the detail there. But maybe we'll step 0:13:34.530 --> 0:13:35.910 back and have a look at a bit of the 0:13:35.910 --> 0:13:39.900 system of this Biserrula and hard- seeded legume. Just for the 0:13:39.900 --> 0:13:43.290 listeners, these hard- seeded legumes are much more persistent in 0:13:43.290 --> 0:13:48.630 the soil with a hard seed. And they can basically regenerate even 0:13:48.630 --> 0:13:50.670 after a cropping phase. Is that what you've seen in 0:13:50.670 --> 0:13:51.598 your experience, Paul? 0:13:52.050 --> 0:13:55.590 Yeah, and the '17 to '20 was a typical example 0:13:55.590 --> 0:13:58.108 that we sewed a crop in '17. I wouldn't have even said we 0:13:58.110 --> 0:13:59.639 had a great seed set then, but it did have 0:13:59.639 --> 0:14:02.279 a seed set. And then we've had complete wipe out 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.458 in '18 and '19 with no rain. And then for the crop 0:14:05.458 --> 0:14:08.910 to come back the way it did, it's obviously got a lot of hard seed. And so, 0:14:09.150 --> 0:14:12.210 there's no reason it won't continue in our cropping system. 0:14:12.390 --> 0:14:15.000 Even then this year, we sewed one paddock. Last year, 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.750 in '21, we sewed a 240 hectare paddock just straight 0:14:18.750 --> 0:14:21.120 Biserrula. It grew pretty well. We probably sewed a little 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.219 bit late. It definitely likes an early sewing once it 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:24.300 starts, cools down. 0:14:24.690 --> 0:14:26.040 What time of year is an early sewing for you? 0:14:26.310 --> 0:14:28.710 Yeah, I think we want to be late March, early 0:14:28.710 --> 0:14:31.170 April. Which is good in that we're getting it in before 0:14:31.170 --> 0:14:32.970 the rest of the crop so it's not interfering. It's 0:14:32.970 --> 0:14:34.469 only about the same time as we sewing our grazing 0:14:34.469 --> 0:14:37.020 cereals. The growth out of it then, when it gets 0:14:37.020 --> 0:14:39.240 a start, it's so far ahead of then something that 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.119 you so in late May after everything else. That crop 0:14:42.119 --> 0:14:44.250 grew well last year. We grazed it. We had 100 0:14:44.250 --> 0:14:46.500 young bulls on it for a couple of months and they 0:14:46.500 --> 0:14:48.540 didn't even touch it really. And then it all set seed. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.330 Then yeah, this year I came in and said, " Okay, the plan is to sew wheat 0:14:52.650 --> 0:14:54.719 in late April." As I'm going into the paddock with 0:14:54.719 --> 0:14:57.420 a boom spray to take everything out or sow the 0:14:57.420 --> 0:15:00.389 wheat, it was just a carpet by Biserrula. It's pretty 0:15:00.389 --> 0:15:00.960 hard to keep going. 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.360 It's a bit of a sickening feeling when you think 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:04.860 this is just going to be some magic feed in 0:15:04.860 --> 0:15:06.810 a couple of weeks. But I guess it's done its 0:15:06.810 --> 0:15:10.290 job already. It's built up all that nitrogen. The one 0:15:10.290 --> 0:15:13.349 thing with these is that the broadleaf weed options, probably 0:15:13.410 --> 0:15:16.739 weed control options aren't that great. Yeah, I think putting 0:15:16.740 --> 0:15:18.570 it into a wheat's a great option. 0:15:18.629 --> 0:15:22.230 That's the downside. There's really very little in the way of broadleaf weed 0:15:22.230 --> 0:15:25.859 control options. Yeah, I think it's almost a case of, 0:15:25.980 --> 0:15:27.090 I mean you do the best you can to get 0:15:27.090 --> 0:15:28.980 as clean a paddock as you can before you sew it. 0:15:28.980 --> 0:15:30.870 And then probably pretty much got to close your eyes that 0:15:30.870 --> 0:15:33.089 first year to other weeds. But then come back in 0:15:33.089 --> 0:15:34.920 with a cereal the following year and then take all those 0:15:35.010 --> 0:15:38.040 weeds back out again and try to avoid any use of the SUs 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.430 of that. Because like any of those medics and clovers 0:15:41.430 --> 0:15:44.940 and all that sort of stuff, but it's not going to like that, but if I can avoid using them, 0:15:44.970 --> 0:15:46.199 I think we're going to have a good fit in 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:46.830 our cropping system. 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.229 Yeah. This year being particularly wet, have you started to 0:15:49.230 --> 0:15:52.859 notice that your nitrogen needs weren't as high in those paddocks that 0:15:52.859 --> 0:15:54.630 you had these hard- seeded legumes? 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.400 To be honest, I haven't this year. I mean we've 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.010 only, that's the first paddock that we've really done. And 0:15:59.010 --> 0:16:00.840 I think, well, there was a lot of things went against 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.030 that paddock this year. We did end up, actually, I had some 0:16:03.030 --> 0:16:04.949 leftover urea I was putting on some other paddocks. I 0:16:04.950 --> 0:16:08.189 did put 55 kilos of urea across that paddock. Yeah, 0:16:08.190 --> 0:16:10.559 we haven't seen a great benefit yet. And I think last 0:16:10.559 --> 0:16:12.660 year, I think the amount of fleabane and stuff we 0:16:12.660 --> 0:16:14.370 had last year, I mean last year was incredibly wet 0:16:14.370 --> 0:16:16.530 over the winter. And we sewed it too late and 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:18.540 all that. There was a few things that weren't right 0:16:18.540 --> 0:16:20.760 and I think the weeds got away a bit. I think they probably would've 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.309 sucked out a lot of the nitrogen benefit from last 0:16:23.309 --> 0:16:26.070 year. Yeah, we got still learning, still got to do a better job at that side of it. Yeah. 0:16:26.759 --> 0:16:28.859 Yeah. Probably just one of my last questions on this 0:16:28.859 --> 0:16:34.380 topic. I know Belinda advises the dry sewing of the un- 0:16:34.380 --> 0:16:37.261 scarified seed. Have you thought about that or considered that? 0:16:37.261 --> 0:16:40.770 Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because once again, the real benefit 0:16:40.830 --> 0:16:43.320 of that is going to be that early germination and 0:16:43.380 --> 0:16:46.319 it gets going faster. The inoculation is an issue. Or 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.560 just not an issue but you have to use ALOSCA, the clay- 0:16:49.590 --> 0:16:50.730 based inoculant. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:51.960 And which comes in a granule. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.990 Yeah, it comes in like a granule. And it can 0:16:54.990 --> 0:16:59.190 be mixed with fertilizer. I haven't tried that yet. It's 0:16:59.190 --> 0:17:02.309 definitely something I'll think about. People are talking about even 0:17:02.940 --> 0:17:06.930 if you're sewing digit grass October or November or something 0:17:06.930 --> 0:17:09.840 in the spring, maybe your hard- seeded legumes could be 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.050 so with ALOSCA at that time. And they'll probably, they 0:17:13.050 --> 0:17:15.270 should just sit over the summer and wait and then 0:17:15.270 --> 0:17:17.850 come up in the autumn. And things like that, there's 0:17:18.090 --> 0:17:20.009 yeah, we still are working at learning how to do 0:17:20.009 --> 0:17:22.830 that stuff better. And once again, your weed control paddock's 0:17:22.830 --> 0:17:24.719 going to have to be pretty clean because you lose 0:17:24.719 --> 0:17:27.270 any ability to take out any weeds in that situation. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.850 But if you've got your paddocks right, there's certainly I think 0:17:29.850 --> 0:17:32.280 a place for it. And all the evidence is that, oh, the 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.380 plants grow so much better, you'll get so much more 0:17:34.380 --> 0:17:35.370 production that first year. 0:17:35.969 --> 0:17:38.369 You just mentioned that you're growing it with premier digit. 0:17:38.369 --> 0:17:42.089 Is that those two are providing the synergies of the 0:17:42.090 --> 0:17:44.250 legume in the winter and the grass in the summer? 0:17:44.250 --> 0:17:45.930 Are you seeing some good benefits there? 0:17:46.290 --> 0:17:48.690