WEBVTT - Mastering shedding sheep: This couple’s experience with SheepMaster sheep 0:00:06.390 --> 0:00:09.510 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.510 --> 0:00:12.480 a good yarn about ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.240 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.420 in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements, 0:00:18.570 --> 0:00:22.380 making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll get 0:00:22.380 --> 0:00:24.690 a laugh out of some of their stories and also 0:00:24.690 --> 0:00:27.960 pick up some know- how along the way. I'm your host, 0:00:28.050 --> 0:00:36.510 Neroli Brennan. Today, we're chatting with Richard and Bernie Sharp. 0:00:36.780 --> 0:00:40.110 Richard and his wife Bernie run their farm Coraki along 0:00:40.110 --> 0:00:43.830 the banks of the Bogan River, 40 kilometers northwest of Parkes, 0:00:43.890 --> 0:00:47.339 where they run their SheepMaster sheep stud Winton Park, as 0:00:47.340 --> 0:00:50.190 well as a commercial shedding sheep flock and some cropping 0:00:50.430 --> 0:00:53.910 to complement the sheep business. In this episode, Richard and 0:00:53.910 --> 0:00:57.570 Bernie talked to us about the difference between SheepMasters and 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.960 other sheep breeds, as well as how they may complement 0:01:01.020 --> 0:01:04.590 different operations. Richard and Bernie are also new to the 0:01:04.590 --> 0:01:07.920 Parkes region and share with us their experience with buying 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:12.330 rural property and farming across a variety of landscapes, including 0:01:12.390 --> 0:01:15.959 offering us some handy tips when purchasing our next property. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.950 Local Land Services Mixed Farming officer Rohan Leach sat down 0:01:19.950 --> 0:01:22.920 with Richard and Bernie at the Forbes office for this episode. 0:01:26.490 --> 0:01:29.670 Good day, listeners. Today, I'm with Richard and Bernie Sharp 0:01:29.670 --> 0:01:31.531 from Parkes. Welcome to the podcast, guys. 0:01:31.531 --> 0:01:31.891 Thank you, Rohan. 0:01:32.490 --> 0:01:33.149 Thank you, Rohan. 0:01:33.330 --> 0:01:35.190 Richard, can you start off with a bit of a 0:01:35.190 --> 0:01:37.319 rundown of your operation at Coraki? 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.640 Yeah, sure. We've got a mixed operation there, grain, grazing crops, 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.040 and sheep, as well as a shedding sheep stud. 0:01:44.220 --> 0:01:46.470 And hectares, what are we looking at there? 0:01:46.709 --> 0:01:51.690 Hectares is around about 1,000 hectares now, over two blocks here. 0:01:51.810 --> 0:01:54.840 What's the management like over the two blocks? How far? 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:57.480 Oh, they're only a K part, Rohan, so it's just all run as one. 0:01:57.630 --> 0:02:00.330 And Bernie, what's your role in the business? 0:02:00.540 --> 0:02:04.050 At the moment, I work off-farm four days a week 0:02:04.140 --> 0:02:08.490 for a stock and station agent in Forbes. And I 0:02:08.580 --> 0:02:11.250 help Richard on the farm on weekends as well as 0:02:11.250 --> 0:02:14.669 take care of the administration and paying the bills and 0:02:14.910 --> 0:02:16.049 things like that in the background. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.540 So Richard saves up all the drenching of the shedding 0:02:18.540 --> 0:02:19.590 sheep for the weekends? 0:02:19.620 --> 0:02:20.190 Everything. 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:20.490 Yeah. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.799 Sheep work, fencing, everything. Yes, yes. 0:02:26.250 --> 0:02:26.251 Oh, it's good to hear. 0:02:26.251 --> 0:02:28.470 Although he does tell me he's very busy during the 0:02:28.470 --> 0:02:29.160 week as well. 0:02:29.610 --> 0:02:29.970 Yes. 0:02:29.970 --> 0:02:31.950 Any right of reply there, Richard? 0:02:32.190 --> 0:02:33.930 No, but I've got to say she's very good with 0:02:34.020 --> 0:02:36.870 ramming posts in. We have a rammer, so she lines 0:02:36.870 --> 0:02:38.580 all the strainers up and we just ram them in, 0:02:38.580 --> 0:02:40.080 which is I couldn't do it on my own, so 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.250 she's brilliant at that. 0:02:41.430 --> 0:02:46.230 So just more of your block at Coraki, what are the 0:02:46.230 --> 0:02:48.451 soil types? Describe the landscape to the people. 0:02:48.451 --> 0:02:53.430 Okay. So we're on the Bogan River, 30 odd Ks west of Parkes. Goes 0:02:53.430 --> 0:02:56.730 from a heavy clay underneath, goes from some heavier soil 0:02:56.730 --> 0:02:58.950 up to a red, what I'd call a red loam, 0:02:58.980 --> 0:03:01.560 then a red chocolate. And then it finishes a timber 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.940 at the back, which we've signed with Biodiversity NSW. We've 0:03:05.940 --> 0:03:08.730 done an agreement there so that we can help in 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.570 retaining that vegetation. But the soil's very tight. It hasn't 0:03:12.570 --> 0:03:15.960 been farmed. It's very run down and it hasn't been 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.540 opened up over the last 30 odd years from the 0:03:18.540 --> 0:03:21.330 previous management. So now that we're hoping to do that 0:03:21.389 --> 0:03:25.918 with a combination of using machinery and multi- species cropping 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.380 to get the air and water into the soil. 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.290 And so tell us a little about your multi- species cropping. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.080 Yeah, sure. So when we're in Tamworth, we started off 0:03:34.169 --> 0:03:36.780 up there and it's becoming quite a mainstream thing. People 0:03:36.780 --> 0:03:40.440 are replacing grazing crop sites in particular because they found 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.280 the multi- species is allowing you to carry more per 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.150 hectare and they're finishing quicker. So we brought that knowledge 0:03:48.150 --> 0:03:50.250 with us. I was doing quite a bit of contracting up there. 0:03:50.250 --> 0:03:54.270 So we're doing both summer and winter multi- species. We've 0:03:54.270 --> 0:03:57.270 used some very smart different mixes, which have probably got 0:03:57.270 --> 0:03:59.310 too many things in them that some of them just 0:03:59.310 --> 0:04:02.940 don't grow where we are. You ultimately will need about 0:04:03.330 --> 0:04:06.630 four to five plant species when you're doing it. So 0:04:06.810 --> 0:04:10.680 in a winter one, typically you'll have oats, daikon, radish, 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.890 maybe buckwheat. And you need to get those roots like 0:04:13.890 --> 0:04:16.020 the fellows are doing with canola, get the roots into 0:04:16.020 --> 0:04:19.349 the soil and also get the microbes going. In summer, 0:04:19.350 --> 0:04:23.490 you're using things like sunflowers, buckwheat, or vetch is another one, 0:04:23.790 --> 0:04:26.370 things that get nitrogen and open the soil up. The 0:04:26.370 --> 0:04:28.950 animals really love it and they seem to eat different 0:04:28.950 --> 0:04:31.710 things at different times. One of the faba beans in 0:04:31.710 --> 0:04:37.680 our current winter, multi- species, they left it there, the lambs, 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.740 for about eight to 10 weeks. Then suddenly they ate 0:04:40.740 --> 0:04:42.660 all the faba beans. They'd left them, they were sticking 0:04:42.660 --> 0:04:46.650 right up, and for some reason their tastes changed. So 0:04:46.830 --> 0:04:49.739 it's interesting to watch it the way they, especially with 0:04:49.740 --> 0:04:54.300 shedding sheep generally, they tend to selectively graze and they're 0:04:54.390 --> 0:04:55.350 different species. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.839 It is funny how a plant will just go through 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.680 its natural progression of... And some days, yeah, they'll have 0:05:01.830 --> 0:05:04.620 higher nitrogen and higher protein, and some days they'll have 0:05:04.620 --> 0:05:08.130 higher sugars. And that's all it takes for the animals 0:05:08.130 --> 0:05:10.981 to go, " Well, bang, that's tasty. I'm onto that now." 0:05:10.981 --> 0:05:15.000 It's not so different, Rohan, to humans. You can't eat chocolate 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.490 all the time, although some people would think so, or 0:05:17.850 --> 0:05:20.520 drink beer all the time. So you need a balance 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.630 of everything. And animals, they certainly know what they want. 0:05:25.020 --> 0:05:27.540 Bernie, you guys have been here for about 18 months. 0:05:27.540 --> 0:05:30.900 So what was your situation before coming down to God's country? 0:05:30.901 --> 0:05:34.890 Yeah, that's right. We do love it here. We had 0:05:34.890 --> 0:05:37.650 a farm in Tamworth. We were very lucky to purchase 0:05:37.650 --> 0:05:41.160 that farm just before things in rural real estate went 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.300 a little bit crazy. And so we spent about three 0:05:45.300 --> 0:05:48.540 years up there. And again, made quite a lot of 0:05:48.540 --> 0:05:52.589 improvements to that farm. Absolutely beautiful spot. We love Tamworth, 0:05:52.620 --> 0:05:55.739 and very picturesque as well. But we had quite a 0:05:55.740 --> 0:05:59.040 lot of hilly country, not all of arable country, so 0:05:59.100 --> 0:06:02.370 reasonable for grazing but there was nothing much really we 0:06:02.370 --> 0:06:05.550 could do to improve the soil or to provide extra 0:06:05.550 --> 0:06:08.820 grazing for our stock so we were quite limited as 0:06:08.820 --> 0:06:11.460 to numbers there. And with prices having gone the way 0:06:11.460 --> 0:06:13.800 they did there, there wasn't a lot of opportunity for 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.589 us to expand. And we were very keen to expand 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:21.420 with our SheepMaster sheep, so we started to look around 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.450 for different areas that would give us that opportunity to 0:06:24.450 --> 0:06:28.800 buy some arable country. And we knew the area around Parkes. 0:06:28.830 --> 0:06:31.560 We were familiar with it, and the prices there were 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.010 much more reasonable than the Tamworth so we decided to 0:06:35.010 --> 0:06:37.200 make the move here and we're very glad that we did. 0:06:37.500 --> 0:06:39.420 Yup. And so the move has given you a bit more 0:06:39.420 --> 0:06:41.430 scale and room to build? 0:06:41.550 --> 0:06:44.339 Yes, room to build, room to value add, room to 0:06:44.700 --> 0:06:47.790 run more animals. Even on the same amount of acreage 0:06:47.820 --> 0:06:50.250 as what we had there, we are just able to run more 0:06:50.250 --> 0:06:52.680 animals here and have a more profitable operation. 0:06:52.830 --> 0:06:54.779 Yeah. So what were you looking for when you were 0:06:55.260 --> 0:06:56.370 looking for a property? 0:06:56.670 --> 0:07:02.159 The main criteria I think for us was something that 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:08.460 was arable. That was the main criteria. And we also 0:07:08.460 --> 0:07:12.870 wanted something that was not too far from a main center. 0:07:13.170 --> 0:07:15.330 We're only about an hour and 15 minutes from Forbes. 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.030 We're less than two hours from Orange. There are good 0:07:18.030 --> 0:07:21.780 livestock selling facilities at Forbes, which again is only 15 0:07:21.780 --> 0:07:24.870 minutes away, as well as Dubbo. So we think being 0:07:24.870 --> 0:07:28.980 in the sheep business, you need to have those facilities close 0:07:28.980 --> 0:07:31.710 by and you need to have the services of a... 0:07:32.100 --> 0:07:35.970 For us, having the services available and support available in 0:07:35.970 --> 0:07:39.660 those towns is very important, and that's why we chose 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.170 this particular area. Like I said, price was a... It was 0:07:43.170 --> 0:07:46.380 a big consideration for us. It's very easy to overpay 0:07:46.620 --> 0:07:50.130 per acre, and you'll never make any money out of 0:07:50.130 --> 0:07:52.470 it no matter how well you do or how well 0:07:52.470 --> 0:07:55.530 you farm it. So that was a big factor for us. 0:07:55.620 --> 0:07:58.230 And finally, we were hoping for something with a bit 0:07:58.230 --> 0:08:02.730 of infrastructure, good infrastructure on it, shedding silos, et cetera, 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.960 and a nice house, a nice house. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.870 Yeah. Just to chime in on that as well, Rohan, 0:08:09.870 --> 0:08:13.260 I think how I've always bought farmland is to work 0:08:13.260 --> 0:08:16.230 it out per DSE. You've also got to allow for 0:08:16.380 --> 0:08:19.410 being near a bigger center like Dubbo and Forbes, but price you pay 0:08:19.410 --> 0:08:23.040 per DSE is the only way to compare areas within reason. 0:08:23.430 --> 0:08:26.010 And obviously you carry more livestock if you've got higher rainfall. 0:08:26.820 --> 0:08:29.700 Further west, you get maybe the capital growth. It's not 0:08:29.700 --> 0:08:32.070 as easy sometimes to sell a place as it is 0:08:32.610 --> 0:08:36.450 if you're at Tamworth or Armidale or whatever. So there's some other factors. 0:08:36.450 --> 0:08:38.820 But on the whole, you've got to have something to 0:08:38.820 --> 0:08:43.200 compare a farm at Tamworth, Murray, Liverpool Plains. Otherwise, you've 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.660 got no idea what you... It might be deer in a 0:08:45.660 --> 0:08:48.420 certain area, but you might be able to run three times as many livestock. 0:08:48.420 --> 0:08:51.510 So that's always been the way that I've tried to 0:08:51.510 --> 0:08:52.650 work it out within reason. 0:08:52.830 --> 0:08:56.160 Yeah. So you've bought and traded properties before in the past? 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:56.370 Yeah. 0:08:56.429 --> 0:08:58.380 So what's your background in that, Richard? 0:08:58.650 --> 0:09:00.750 I grew up in the Hunter Valley on a family farm. 0:09:00.809 --> 0:09:03.209 Went away to boarding school. When I came back, I 0:09:03.210 --> 0:09:05.939 was very lucky within a very short time of leaving school. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.370 I was managing a place, but then ended up buying 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.270 part of that and then just expanded over time. And 0:09:12.270 --> 0:09:15.209 then we got bigger. In that area, we had about 6, 0:09:15.210 --> 0:09:17.580 000 hectares by then and were cropping quite a lot. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.910 And I took the initiative of selling at the peak of 0:09:20.910 --> 0:09:24.179 the previous property boom. And took a couple of years to do it, 0:09:24.330 --> 0:09:27.599 but we bought country at orange and had a magnificent place 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.150 that was very heavy carrying. And I had some off- 0:09:30.150 --> 0:09:34.200 farm things I was doing then and we were just trading steers, 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.200 so we got down to a low labor input and I 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.620 had manager running that. And we did really well out 0:09:40.620 --> 0:09:43.770 of that pure Angus steers and their currency anytime in 0:09:43.770 --> 0:09:46.530 a drought or whatever. And we turned them over every 0:09:46.530 --> 0:09:49.770 one and a half times a year, every eight months. And 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.460 that was very simple. So that was a change of direction, 0:09:53.460 --> 0:09:57.090 and now we've ended up back in sheep again. So 0:09:57.090 --> 0:09:59.640 it's funny how things take you. I started off in sheep, cattle, 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.969 and farming and then into cattle only and then back 0:10:02.970 --> 0:10:04.020 into the sheep and cropping. 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.620 Yeah. So getting back to your early comments about buying 0:10:07.620 --> 0:10:12.870 per DSE, carrying capacity, any tips for listeners on where 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.069 that intersection or how to work that out for themselves? 0:10:17.490 --> 0:10:19.890 Where I see things getting way out of hand now 0:10:19.890 --> 0:10:23.100 is people have got great assets. In the last couple of years, 0:10:23.100 --> 0:10:28.679 people nearly doubled their asset in value, but unfortunately- 0:10:28.710 --> 0:10:29.850 In terms of their land. 0:10:29.910 --> 0:10:32.640 In terms of their land. So this is the grounding from 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.520 the logic. Equity doesn't equal cashflow. So a lot of 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.830 people went out when the neighbors came up for sale, 0:10:37.890 --> 0:10:39.510 their own had gone up with value, so they borrow 0:10:39.510 --> 0:10:40.920 all the money to buy the neighbors and you've got 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.230 to use everything to pay the new bit of land off. 0:10:43.230 --> 0:10:47.220 But it hasn't given you really any extra cashflow except 0:10:47.220 --> 0:10:49.890 for servicing the new block of land. And interest rates 0:10:49.890 --> 0:10:52.500 have gone up so it depends on when you enter 0:10:52.500 --> 0:10:56.250 the cycle. To answer your question, I keep it simple. 0:10:56.250 --> 0:10:59.880 I've always thought if you can pay 6 to $ 700 of DSE 0:11:00.420 --> 0:11:02.970 on average, then you've got the improvements to factor in. We've 0:11:03.090 --> 0:11:06.569 got a new brick home and good improvements. You might 0:11:06.780 --> 0:11:10.230 prefer more acres and not get the house. The house 0:11:10.230 --> 0:11:15.270 is always a bonus price- wise. There's just a set 0:11:15.270 --> 0:11:17.910 of factors, and when I think capital gains across everything 0:11:17.910 --> 0:11:21.390 is probably proportionate. The only thing that's really making it 0:11:21.390 --> 0:11:25.260 difficult for Australian farmers generally now is the outside interest 0:11:25.260 --> 0:11:28.470 coming in to use superannuation money, which is really putting 0:11:28.470 --> 0:11:32.250 a false floor in Australian farming to an extent because 0:11:32.250 --> 0:11:35.910 if only a few people, a small percentage are benefiting 0:11:36.660 --> 0:11:39.390 from selling their farms to the corporates, be it overseas 0:11:39.390 --> 0:11:41.880 money or local, whereas the majority just having to pay 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.790 more to buy the neighbors and paying more rates. But 0:11:44.790 --> 0:11:47.280 they're actually not making any more money. Yes, it's a 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.309 great asset if you can service it, but that to 0:11:50.309 --> 0:11:52.530 me is a really big thing. These funds have got 0:11:52.530 --> 0:11:56.340 so much money now. For example, Canadian teachers pension fund, 0:11:56.820 --> 0:12:00.660 the Mormon church just bought land in Queensland, 265 billion 0:12:00.809 --> 0:12:03.929 they have in assets, and it makes it very difficult 0:12:03.929 --> 0:12:07.200 for a farmer to expand and get his children on 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.569 the land. I don't know where it's going to end. 0:12:09.929 --> 0:12:13.199 That's right. And I think what you just mentioned is something 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.170 really important in terms of succession planning for farmers now 0:12:16.170 --> 0:12:19.079 because if it was difficult before to pass the farm 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.800 on to someone, one of your children, it's certainly been 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.710 worth the land is worth now. It's certainly very difficult 0:12:25.710 --> 0:12:28.620 to do that and it becomes prohibitive for a lot of families, 0:12:28.620 --> 0:12:31.500 and they end up selling up because they just can't 0:12:31.770 --> 0:12:35.580 find any way of making it even remotely fair. Also, 0:12:35.580 --> 0:12:38.910 a massive barrier for new people to enter agriculture. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.910 It's pretty hard to split a 5 to $ 10 million 0:12:42.179 --> 0:12:45.330 asset that's one parcel of land pretty fair and equitably, 0:12:45.330 --> 0:12:45.660 isn't it? 0:12:45.780 --> 0:12:47.790 And there's a difference there of what's fair and what's 0:12:47.790 --> 0:12:51.750 equitable to keep a viable family farm going and to 0:12:51.750 --> 0:12:54.059 look after the others that aren't on the land. So 0:12:54.059 --> 0:12:55.860 that makes it very difficult. And to give you an 0:12:55.860 --> 0:13:00.120 idea of buying power, back in the '70s, I remember my father saying, one, 0:13:00.179 --> 0:13:03.300 we used to gross 10 to 12 bags where I grew up 0:13:03.300 --> 0:13:07.170 of wheat to the acre. And in those days, land and 0:13:07.230 --> 0:13:09.480 a ton of wheat was just about the price of 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.290 one acre of land gross. And the expenses were one 0:13:13.290 --> 0:13:15.270 fifth of the price of a ton of wheat. Gosh, 0:13:15.270 --> 0:13:18.420 today it's just, I know wheat's a bit better, but it's 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.120 going backwards in real terms the whole time. I know 0:13:21.690 --> 0:13:24.360 people say you've got to get bigger, but that's the 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:28.050 other problem now with the community generally around Parkes, Forbes, 0:13:28.050 --> 0:13:30.360 wherever it is. We're getting less and less people in 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.360 those communities because people are getting bigger machinery. There's less 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.699 people there to be on the local cricket club or 0:13:36.059 --> 0:13:38.729 whatever it is. And so it's wrecking the fabric of 0:13:38.730 --> 0:13:41.220 all these little towns and you can't get doctors and 0:13:41.220 --> 0:13:44.850 can't get other services, and so that makes it really difficult. 0:13:44.850 --> 0:13:47.130 So it's not a bugbear of mine, but it's something 0:13:47.130 --> 0:13:51.030 that I find sad that wherever you go, you see 0:13:51.030 --> 0:13:53.490 all these little halls and clubs falling down because the 0:13:53.490 --> 0:13:56.520 people just aren't there anymore for various reasons, yeah. 0:13:56.730 --> 0:14:00.240 Getting back to your point about 20% of your input 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.329 costs being the value of the grain, I think the 0:14:03.330 --> 0:14:06.300 CSIRO farming systems trial, which is going on at the 0:14:06.330 --> 0:14:10.260 moment all across New South Wales in various locations, a 0:14:10.740 --> 0:14:14.099 recent figure I saw in that was anywhere from for 0:14:14.100 --> 0:14:19.380 every dollar invested, you're maybe making between $1.20 and $1. 40 in some 0:14:19.380 --> 0:14:22.831 of the better scenarios in cropping. So that's a scary thought. 0:14:22.831 --> 0:14:25.680 Yeah. Well, if you compare that to racehorses, I think you've 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.850 got a better chance at Randwick each way than doing that. 0:14:29.850 --> 0:14:33.360 And going back 50 years, when you purchased a farm, 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.790 that was the biggest outlay you had. You could control 0:14:35.790 --> 0:14:38.610 your costs. These days when you purchase a farm, most 0:14:38.610 --> 0:14:43.140 banks won't go past 65% LVR, but you then need, for 0:14:43.140 --> 0:14:46.080 the smallest farm debt- free, you need about $ 200,000 to 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.830 open the gate these days. So it's completely changed. And 0:14:49.830 --> 0:14:53.790 when you speak of a dollar invested for every $1.20 to a $1. 40, we're 0:14:53.790 --> 0:14:56.609 relying on the weather. If you said to someone in Sydney, " Oh, 0:14:56.610 --> 0:14:58.590 I'm going to risk your whole income for the year 0:14:58.860 --> 0:15:01.560 and you'll be 20% or 40% better off next year," they'd look 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:02.910 at you as if you are crazy. 0:15:03.420 --> 0:15:05.670 I think everyone probably wonders why they're in agriculture at 0:15:05.670 --> 0:15:08.340 some times, but maybe let's get onto the points of 0:15:08.610 --> 0:15:12.360 why we are in agriculture. So you mentioned earlier that 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.680 you've got a SheepMaster flock and stud. So can you start 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.690 off with what are SheepMasters? 0:15:18.900 --> 0:15:22.590 SheepMasters, yes. We came across them about four years ago. 0:15:22.620 --> 0:15:25.800 They're an Australian developed breed. They were developed in Western 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.850 Australia and they've been around for about 30 years now. 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:34.320 They're a beautiful shedding sheep, very clean shedding. They're designed 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.130 for Australian conditions. They do very well under Australian conditions, 0:15:38.130 --> 0:15:43.290 even quite marginal conditions. They're designed to be able to 0:15:43.290 --> 0:15:47.130 forage and to be able to travel quite well over distances. 0:15:47.130 --> 0:15:49.440 So they're quite well suited to the medium arid to 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.210 arid areas, although they have a very good structure. They've 0:15:54.210 --> 0:15:57.060 got excellent feet so they can actually tolerate quite a 0:15:57.060 --> 0:15:58.260 bit of moisture as well. 0:15:58.650 --> 0:16:01.260 Where they were developed in Western Australia near Albany, they 0:16:01.260 --> 0:16:06.840 were developed within three kilometers, I think it was, of the sea. And it rains there 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.430 I don't know how many inches of rain a year. It 0:16:08.430 --> 0:16:10.350 could be 50 inches. But even when we went over 0:16:10.350 --> 0:16:13.830 to the sail, they were standing in three inches of water. And I think I might've 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.800 seen one sheep that might've been a bit limp- y. 0:16:16.890 --> 0:16:19.950 But if they do there, they'll do anywhere. And this has been a... 0:16:20.490 --> 0:16:23.820 We're constantly asked by people how are the feet because their 0:16:24.150 --> 0:16:27.060 other breeds, there's some that people aren't so happy about 0:16:27.060 --> 0:16:31.170 with their feet. These are bred for, as Bea said, 0:16:31.170 --> 0:16:35.130 for walkability, but they've got very good feet. So yes, they're bred in a 0:16:35.790 --> 0:16:39.960 very wet, unnatural environment for sheep. On that note, also, 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.530 just out of interest, January before last, the manager of 0:16:43.530 --> 0:16:47.370 that stud over there came over the wall of a dam. 0:16:47.700 --> 0:16:49.590 It was very hot weather they were having over there, in the 40s, 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.400 and he found nearly 40 of these lambs swimming not 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.620 on the edge, so swimming in the dam. And by the time he 0:16:55.620 --> 0:16:59.430 got his camera out, his phone, I think he got 26, 0:16:59.430 --> 0:17:02.370 that's on YouTube, of the sheep actually having a swim. So 0:17:02.370 --> 0:17:05.639 they're totally different. So when we mention water, it's not 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.820 something they worry about too much. So creek crossings with 0:17:08.820 --> 0:17:12.240 water in the mark are negative, aren't very good as 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:12.720 a boundary. 0:17:13.950 --> 0:17:18.270 I'm just imagining delinquent lamb children just duck diving in 0:17:18.270 --> 0:17:21.629 a dam together. So that's where my mind's gone. Bernie, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.150 can you tell me a bit more about what's the breeding, 0:17:24.300 --> 0:17:27.869 the background behind them in terms of what have they been bred from? 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.900 Well, there was a number of breeds that went into 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.409 the development originally. Quite a few breeds were used in 0:17:34.410 --> 0:17:40.500 the early days, anything from Dorpers to White Suffolk, Damara, Kojak. 0:17:40.740 --> 0:17:44.160 So I think there were up to about seven breeds initially. 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.740 Some of those were only used for a very brief period. 0:17:46.770 --> 0:17:50.640 There's not much infusion there. But the breed's been stabilized 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.460 for quite a number of years now where they've just 0:17:53.460 --> 0:17:57.720 used pure SheepMasters and they've gone on with that. So 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.139 what we have on hand now is very stable breed that's 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.450 been bred back to itself for quite a while now. 0:18:03.660 --> 0:18:07.139 So what differentiates the SheepMaster from other shedding sheep? 0:18:07.290 --> 0:18:09.840 Well, we've tried other shedding sheep and we still have 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.600 other shedding sheep as well. We bought a couple of 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.580 good lines of Dorpers in the early days. This is 0:18:14.580 --> 0:18:17.790 before we got onto the SheepMasters. And we've also got 0:18:17.790 --> 0:18:21.390 a few lines of very decent Aussie Whites. I think 0:18:21.390 --> 0:18:23.880 there are a lot of good shedding breeds. I don't 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.150 think that one shedding breed necessarily does everything for all people. 0:18:28.050 --> 0:18:31.230 One of the reasons we were still looking even after 0:18:31.230 --> 0:18:34.200 we'd bought those sheep was that we just felt that 0:18:34.260 --> 0:18:39.660 in terms of structure, walkability, shedding ability, and just being 0:18:39.660 --> 0:18:44.400 able to produce a larger carcass without being over- finished. 0:18:44.820 --> 0:18:48.119 Yeah, they look very slug. Having seen them for the 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.000 first time at your open day the other week, they 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.969 look very different to your well- muscled Dorper where you can 0:18:53.970 --> 0:18:56.939 almost see the lamb cutlets on the back end. But 0:18:56.940 --> 0:19:02.130 these SheepMasters are very different, quite long and leggy. But yeah, 0:19:02.130 --> 0:19:04.200 they're still obviously a lot of weight in them. 0:19:04.950 --> 0:19:08.760 Yes, they're heavier than they look, I think, sometimes. I 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.720 think for us they are an ideal sire to put 0:19:12.780 --> 0:19:16.290 over other shedding breeds, like you mentioned, the Dorper. Some 0:19:16.290 --> 0:19:20.040 of those Dorpers can really... They're beautiful sheep and they 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.670 shed beautifully and they share the same fertility as a SheepMaster, 0:19:23.670 --> 0:19:26.580 but they can get almost a little bit muscle- bound, 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:28.830 almost a little bit too short in the leg. And 0:19:28.830 --> 0:19:31.919 this is a... A SheepMaster is a great way to add 0:19:32.310 --> 0:19:33.780 just a little bit of height, a little bit of 0:19:33.780 --> 0:19:36.300 range to the sheep, a little bit of length, and it allows 0:19:36.300 --> 0:19:39.330 you to maybe grow it out to a slightly heavier 0:19:39.810 --> 0:19:43.409 carcass than what you'd be able to take your Dorper to, thereby 0:19:43.410 --> 0:19:47.010 maybe just increasing a little bit of what you actually 0:19:47.010 --> 0:19:48.810 get for your sheep at the end of the day. 0:19:48.990 --> 0:19:52.050 And Bernie, I know you work in the Forbes sale 0:19:52.050 --> 0:19:52.530 yards 0:19:52.590 --> 0:19:52.920 I do. 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.109 With one of the agents here. Have you seen any 0:19:55.109 --> 0:19:59.160 differences in performance in the sale yards compared to other shedders? 0:19:59.310 --> 0:20:02.430 Yes. What we've put through so far through the sale yards, 0:20:02.430 --> 0:20:04.919 we don't put a lot of sheep through the sale yards. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.010 We prefer to sell direct. It's only when we have 0:20:08.010 --> 0:20:10.710 little lots that what we have put through has been 0:20:10.710 --> 0:20:14.550 Aussie White crosses and Dorper crosses. In the yards at 0:20:14.550 --> 0:20:18.419 the moment at Forbes, pretty much all shedding sheep are 0:20:18.420 --> 0:20:22.470 called just a shedding run, but they seem to hold 0:20:22.470 --> 0:20:24.570 up the same as other shedders. They seem to hold up 0:20:24.570 --> 0:20:26.910 well in terms of price per kilo paid. I don't 0:20:26.910 --> 0:20:29.250 think you're going to get a premium necessarily, and that's 0:20:29.250 --> 0:20:32.670 not what we are looking for. We're just looking for a good 0:20:32.670 --> 0:20:34.950 size sheep that you can hang plenty of meat off 0:20:34.950 --> 0:20:38.100 and get paid well by the kilo and have plenty 0:20:38.100 --> 0:20:38.640 of kilos. 0:20:38.850 --> 0:20:40.080 Richard, what's the thing that you like the most about them? 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:46.320 A couple of things I like is the fertility. These things will join at 12 months 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.520 of the year. They're unbelievable, which is a great positive, 0:20:50.580 --> 0:20:54.090 and no seasonality whatsoever. The other thing that I love 0:20:54.090 --> 0:20:56.760 about them is they actually, when you get a pure SheepMaster, 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.000 you actually don't even get any wool on the mainstream growing. 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.030 It's more like a satiny loose skin. So they just, 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.670 you've seen it yourself on some of ours, and that's as long 0:21:05.670 --> 0:21:07.530