WEBVTT - Counting wins (and losses) in the trading game 0:00:06.430 --> 0:00:09.520 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.510 a good yarn about ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.510 --> 0:00:15.240 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.419 in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements, 0:00:18.579 --> 0:00:22.380 making tough calls and getting the job done. You'll get 0:00:22.380 --> 0:00:24.710 a laugh out of some of their stories, and also 0:00:24.710 --> 0:00:27.970 pick up some know- how along the way. I'm your host, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:35.130 Neroli Brennan. Today, we are sitting down with Trent Johnstone 0:00:35.409 --> 0:00:40.269 from Trojan Shorthorns. Trent runs a livestock trading enterprise, along 0:00:40.270 --> 0:00:44.300 with his Shorthorn bull breeding business at Forbes and Lyndhurst. 0:00:45.110 --> 0:00:48.349 To facilitate his trading business, Trent has become a bit 0:00:48.350 --> 0:00:51.350 of an expert at doing the numbers on leasing country 0:00:51.700 --> 0:00:56.270 and adjesting livestock as well. In this episode, you'll hear Trent 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.930 share some of his key principles for trading livestock, as 0:00:59.930 --> 0:01:02.940 well as some of his most memorable wins and losses 0:01:03.070 --> 0:01:06.640 in the trading game. You'll also learn how he manages 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.770 livestock on as many as 13 different properties across the state, 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.580 in an effort to mitigate against the drought. Local Land 0:01:14.580 --> 0:01:18.380 Services Mixed Farming Advisor, Rohan Leach met up with Trent 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.540 on the top of Memorial Hill in Parks after Trent 0:01:21.540 --> 0:01:23.910 ran into a spot of trouble in the morning with 0:01:23.910 --> 0:01:26.270 a B Double loaded full of stock. 0:01:29.970 --> 0:01:33.069 Today, I'm here on top of Memorial Hill in Parks 0:01:33.069 --> 0:01:36.880 with Trent Johnston, so welcome to the Seeds for Success podcast, Trent. 0:01:37.180 --> 0:01:39.330 Thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me and giving me 0:01:39.330 --> 0:01:39.670 the opportunity. 0:01:40.260 --> 0:01:42.090 Bit of a mad dash this morning. Do you mind 0:01:42.250 --> 0:01:43.591 telling the listeners, mate, why we've had to meet here? 0:01:43.591 --> 0:01:47.580 Well, we were meant to meet in Dubbo and I managed to get a B Double 0:01:47.580 --> 0:01:49.970 bog this morning, so that was a slight hold up, 0:01:49.970 --> 0:01:52.020 and I had some cows that I wanted to get 0:01:52.020 --> 0:01:53.370 rid of and I wasn't going to let them back 0:01:53.500 --> 0:01:57.670 out of the yard, once I had them in there so I said, " We might just have to make it a different spot," 0:01:57.670 --> 0:01:59.100 so here we are on top of the hill, which 0:01:59.100 --> 0:01:59.880 is quite good, actually. 0:01:59.970 --> 0:02:00.851 Yeah. It's not a bad view, is it? 0:02:00.851 --> 0:02:02.110 No, it's perfect. 0:02:02.270 --> 0:02:04.640 Mate, tell me in about your farming operation. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:15.380 The farming operation that we run, based home is at 0:02:15.380 --> 0:02:17.209 Lyndhurst, between Blayney and Cowra. We've got other country, South of Forbes. At Lyndhurst, we've got 2000 acres there. At Lyndhurst, it's all pasture- improved 0:02:17.210 --> 0:02:21.359 country, fertilized country, heavily fertilized every year sort of thing, and 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.180 then our Lyndhurst country is ... Forbes country, sorry, it's 24 Ks 0:02:25.180 --> 0:02:30.160 South of Forbes there, we've got another 2000 acres there and then I've got some other lease country around here, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.560 there, and everywhere, and it keeps me in the car a bit, but it's all good. 0:02:32.980 --> 0:02:34.380 What enterprises do you run? 0:02:34.700 --> 0:02:38.810 We've got a stud cattle operation, stud Shorthorns doing about 250 stud cows 0:02:38.810 --> 0:02:41.940 now every year, and then producing bulls that go all around 0:02:41.940 --> 0:02:44.419 the East Coast of Australia pretty much and down into 0:02:44.419 --> 0:02:46.609 South Australia, and so we've got to spread them where our bulls 0:02:46.610 --> 0:02:49.470 go every year, and then also at Lyndhurst is our lamb 0:02:49.470 --> 0:02:53.239 feeding operation that we put about 10, 000 lambs through there every 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.490 year on a good year. Last year was back a little bit, but 0:02:56.130 --> 0:02:58.859 yeah, predominantly about 10,000 lambs every year go through there, and then our 0:03:00.570 --> 0:03:04.389 Forbes country, it's grazing, trading opportunistic stuff there that we 0:03:04.389 --> 0:03:06.190 do. Seems to work pretty well with a bit of 0:03:06.310 --> 0:03:08.870 forage crops. We don't crop necessarily. I leave that to 0:03:08.870 --> 0:03:11.600 the other fellows and I just know how to fatten cattle 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.500 and sheep, and I just do it that way, so I found that that 0:03:14.500 --> 0:03:15.850 works probably pretty well for us. 0:03:16.150 --> 0:03:18.550 The first interaction I had with you as an agronomist, 0:03:18.690 --> 0:03:21.500 your priority was definitely on the livestock side of things, wasn't it? 0:03:21.700 --> 0:03:24.630 Definitely that, and I like growing forage crops and we try a few 0:03:24.630 --> 0:03:27.002 different things and fortunate enough, we put a (Reiziq) 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:29.850 cropping out there at Forbes a couple of weeks ago 0:03:30.050 --> 0:03:32.770 now, and it's up and out of the ground and certainly fine, but we've had 0:03:32.770 --> 0:03:34.820 pretty good conditions for that too, so looking forward to getting 0:03:35.060 --> 0:03:36.800 some lambs on that and really making it hum. 0:03:37.020 --> 0:03:40.450 What a season we're having at the moment. What's your primary enterprise, would you 0:03:40.450 --> 0:03:42.940 say, or your majority of your focus? 0:03:43.180 --> 0:03:46.440 Probably a 50/50 split, to be perfectly honest. It just 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.240 depends on the time of the year too. We're just about 0:03:49.590 --> 0:03:51.790 to ramp into this lamb job now. I've got a heap of lambs 0:03:51.790 --> 0:03:54.810 that are out on adjestment at the moment, but they're all coming back and they'll 0:03:54.810 --> 0:03:58.770 go on feed. That lamb job goes from end November 0:03:59.050 --> 0:04:02.290 through till May, I suppose you'd say. Just when it 0:04:02.290 --> 0:04:04.250 starts to get a bit too wet in the feet, we boot them 0:04:04.290 --> 0:04:07.340 out, and I go looking for some adjestment, some cropping 0:04:07.340 --> 0:04:09.250 country, which I've over the last few years, I've been 0:04:09.250 --> 0:04:12.490 quite fortunate to be able to find some cropping country to be able to throw some 0:04:12.500 --> 0:04:14.560 lambs out onto and slow some crops up for some 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.850 fellows. Yeah, it also gets them out of feed lot for me 0:04:16.850 --> 0:04:19.390 when it starts to get a little bit too wet and they don't do the 0:04:19.390 --> 0:04:20.890 weight gains. They're the ones, it starts to get a bit 0:04:20.890 --> 0:04:23.770 like that, so they sulk a bit, so that time of 0:04:23.790 --> 0:04:25.900 the year, and then there's a bit of a bit of 0:04:25.900 --> 0:04:28.050 a crossover there. Obviously at the moment, we've just been 0:04:28.150 --> 0:04:30.729 doing a big fixed time AI program with our stud 0:04:30.730 --> 0:04:32.860 cattle, so that takes up a bit of time, so which 0:04:32.860 --> 0:04:36.150 was all pretty good as a crossover period there and then we get 0:04:36.150 --> 0:04:39.989 into March next year and we start our bull selling season, and that carries 0:04:39.990 --> 0:04:42.470 on from March through to September with all the different 0:04:42.470 --> 0:04:47.700 sales we go to. I guess to answer your question, it's probably a 50/ 50 split and try and make it work 0:04:47.860 --> 0:04:50.460 best we can and grab what opportunities come past if 0:04:50.460 --> 0:04:51.979 we can get something and go from there. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:58.340 How has your seed stock enterprise ... It sounds like that compliments the trading enterprise and vice versa? 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.779 Yeah, definitely. It gives us cash flow, and that's the 0:05:01.779 --> 0:05:04.680 hardest thing on farms is cash flow, and with the seed stock 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.039 thing, we sell bulls, March and then June and then a whole 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.349 lot in July, and then we take a load of bulls 0:05:10.350 --> 0:05:13.450 up to Monto in Queensland. We've been taking them up 0:05:13.450 --> 0:05:16.930 there every September. It just helps and sure, we do the 0:05:16.930 --> 0:05:19.400 miles. Like the sale in March, that's down at Naracoorte in 0:05:19.430 --> 0:05:22.010 South Australia, we take a load of bulls down there, but at does help 0:05:22.010 --> 0:05:24.049 with the cash flow, the seed stock side of things, 0:05:24.050 --> 0:05:26.650 and it is something I'm passionate about, I suppose, is 0:05:26.650 --> 0:05:29.140 the seed stock. I've had the opportunity to judge all 0:05:29.140 --> 0:05:31.670 around Australia, really, judge cattle at Royal shows and stuff 0:05:32.010 --> 0:05:34.810 which I do enjoy, so the seed stock thing is 0:05:34.810 --> 0:05:37.730 a major part and it helps, and it's something, if you enjoy 0:05:37.730 --> 0:05:39.029 it, it's not that hard of work really, I guess. 0:05:39.029 --> 0:05:42.119 Mate, just as a little aside, earlier in the month, 0:05:42.170 --> 0:05:45.580 when we were trying to book this interview in, you mentioned another podcast that gave 0:05:45.580 --> 0:05:48.070 you a good idea with a trainee. Would you mind telling that story? 0:05:48.290 --> 0:05:50.969 Yeah, I was just driving along to one of the places where we had some 0:05:50.970 --> 0:05:53.480 stock and I was listening to a podcast which I do 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.770 sometimes just to pass the time, because the radio gets a 0:05:55.770 --> 0:05:58.300 bit boring. They were interviewing someone. I think it was in Western 0:05:58.300 --> 0:06:02.010 Australia, actually and they were saying about how their staff and stuff 0:06:02.010 --> 0:06:05.230 like that and at the moment ... Well, back then, we 0:06:05.339 --> 0:06:07.150 only had ... It was Dad and I run the farms, 0:06:07.150 --> 0:06:08.820 and we had a bit of casual labor, and I've 0:06:08.820 --> 0:06:10.710 got a bloke at our Forbes place that looks after it 0:06:10.710 --> 0:06:14.730 as well, but was starting to get a bit too much and Dad's getting a bit older and stuff 0:06:14.730 --> 0:06:18.110 too, so I thought ... I started to listen to this podcast and they said 0:06:18.670 --> 0:06:20.880 they've put on a trainee and the government subsidies and 0:06:20.900 --> 0:06:23.190 all that sort of stuff, and it got me thinking, and 0:06:23.190 --> 0:06:25.580 then I finished listening to that and we made a few 0:06:25.580 --> 0:06:29.220 inquiries as to about a trainee. Anyway, so now we've got a 0:06:29.220 --> 0:06:32.490 trainee working for us now, which he's only been there three weeks now, 0:06:32.490 --> 0:06:34.920 full time with us. Fresh out of school, Year 10 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.599 kid, got plenty of go in him and he wanted to stay in the agriculture 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.740 thing and I didn't want to lose him to somewhere else, 0:06:40.740 --> 0:06:42.260 and I thought, " Well, if we can look after him and 0:06:42.260 --> 0:06:44.860 keep him in the agriculture side of things, and with 0:06:44.860 --> 0:06:48.109 some government subsidies and help that they give, was a no-brainer, really." 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.070 You were saying it's a pretty cheap labor unit. 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.110 Yeah. Very cheap labor unit by the time the government puts their 0:06:53.110 --> 0:06:54.810 hand in their pocket and gives us their bit, and 0:06:54.810 --> 0:06:58.099 then it certainly, the hourly rate, the labor unit per hour, it's 0:06:58.610 --> 0:07:01.409 good and you get to train someone, and in the years 0:07:01.730 --> 0:07:04.260 to come, it's a two- year traineeship he'll do with us and 0:07:04.260 --> 0:07:08.140 then after that, hopefully we'll have him full time. You 0:07:08.140 --> 0:07:09.730 get to train them how you want to, yeah, which 0:07:09.730 --> 0:07:11.790 is good and as long as they're willing to have a 0:07:11.790 --> 0:07:13.580 go, which he is, so it's a good thing, I think. 0:07:14.150 --> 0:07:15.660 Yeah. You said it was a bit of a ... Your 0:07:15.660 --> 0:07:17.890 style is a sink or swim. You chucked him in the yards 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.930 for a few days in a row and tested his 0:07:20.930 --> 0:07:21.640 metal from there. 0:07:22.020 --> 0:07:24.330 Well, this is the best way to test him. We're doing a bit 0:07:24.330 --> 0:07:27.500 of contract landmarking and we threw him in the catching pen 0:07:27.500 --> 0:07:31.120 and think, we started at seven in the morning, half past seven sort of thing, and 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.330 then we finished at one, but he caught 750 lambs 0:07:34.330 --> 0:07:36.550 all by himself as a 16- year- old kid. I thought, " 0:07:36.550 --> 0:07:39.300 This kid's got a bit of go in him." I'll see how he go and give him 0:07:39.300 --> 0:07:42.820 a few hard ones, and he's going all right so far, so we'll see. But 0:07:42.820 --> 0:07:44.701 yeah, sink or swim sometimes. That's probably the best way to put it, I reckon. 0:07:44.701 --> 0:07:50.040 Just to delve a little deeper in the trading side 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.620 of your business, where's the value in the livestock market 0:07:52.620 --> 0:07:52.990 this week? 0:07:53.260 --> 0:07:56.250 That's a good one. It changes. As we all know, 0:07:56.250 --> 0:07:59.300 it changes day to day. Nearly minute to minute at the moment, but I've been buying 0:08:00.460 --> 0:08:03.240 a few lambs out of the West. My agents, they've been buying them for me and 0:08:04.650 --> 0:08:08.220 been shipping them over, and there seems to be value in that and we'll be able to value add to 0:08:08.220 --> 0:08:11.190 them, and some of them lambs locked in on a forward contract 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.010 for January, February. That takes some of the risk work out 0:08:14.010 --> 0:08:15.330 of it, as long as they put on the weight, 0:08:15.330 --> 0:08:17.290 they're doing the numbers on, but as long as they're 0:08:17.290 --> 0:08:19.160 well bred too, so that takes some of the risk 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.850 work out of it. Look, and I still think there's still value 0:08:21.850 --> 0:08:25.850 in females. There's definitely value in females with this herd rebuilding thing, 0:08:25.850 --> 0:08:26.120 whether it be- 0:08:26.310 --> 0:08:26.870 With cattle? 0:08:27.090 --> 0:08:29.200 Cattle and sheep. Yeah. Might get back in the market 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.910 to buy a few more cows shortly or some heifers just 0:08:31.910 --> 0:08:33.449 to join. I've got a bull sitting around at our 0:08:33.450 --> 0:08:35.829 fold block doing nothing at the moment, so throw something 0:08:35.830 --> 0:08:38.530 in with them. It's getting a little bit late in the season, but we might just be able 0:08:38.530 --> 0:08:40.920 to do something there and go there, but yeah, I've got a 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.520 lot of trade cattle up there and they're all females now. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.459 I did have steers and then I got out of 0:08:45.460 --> 0:08:48.329 them and into females, so joining all of them up. 0:08:48.410 --> 0:08:50.360 I think just at the moment, that's where the opportunities 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.790 are, but everyone's different too, I guess. Depends on your 0:08:53.980 --> 0:08:56.810 situation and what your farming practices are, I suppose. 0:08:56.810 --> 0:09:01.099 Have you got any principles or fundamental things that help you 0:09:01.380 --> 0:09:03.730 reveal these good buys? 0:09:04.150 --> 0:09:08.700 Calculator. It's about a calculator, and you've got to surround 0:09:08.700 --> 0:09:10.850 yourself with some good people too, I believe. If you can 0:09:10.850 --> 0:09:13.370 get a good agent that's willing to work, which I'm 0:09:13.370 --> 0:09:16.130 fortunate enough to have, or works in conjunction with us 0:09:16.130 --> 0:09:18.250 and people are willing to actually have a go and 0:09:18.420 --> 0:09:21.080 yeah, throw caution to the wind a little bit, I suppose, and also, you've 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.020 got to obviously do your numbers and make sure that 0:09:23.350 --> 0:09:26.780 when you're buying in big double loads of lambs at a time, that got an out 0:09:26.780 --> 0:09:29.980 there somewhere and also monitor their progress. That's a big 0:09:29.980 --> 0:09:32.030 thing too. Don't be afraid to sit down with a 0:09:32.030 --> 0:09:34.050 pen and paper and do the numbers first, and if you think it's going 0:09:34.490 --> 0:09:34.970 to stack up. 0:09:35.420 --> 0:09:37.270 That's it, so it's, you've really got to work on it. 0:09:37.500 --> 0:09:40.460 Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you've got to do the numbers. Even with steers 0:09:40.460 --> 0:09:42.660 now ... Well, not so much for me now, but through the 0:09:42.660 --> 0:09:45.520 winter, I had steers up at Gunnedah on crop. When they're putting on, even if they're 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.040 only doing a kilo a day, which some of the poorer performing 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.750 ones are only doing kilo a day on crop, but if they're still 0:09:51.750 --> 0:09:55.050 doing a kilo a day, at five bucks a kilo, or when 0:09:55.050 --> 0:09:58.469 I sold them, they were $5. 90 a kilo, you're still making good 0:09:58.470 --> 0:10:01.059 money. It's pretty good. If you're say, at $ 6 a 0:10:01.059 --> 0:10:03.940 kilo at seven days a week, six sevens or 42, 0:10:03.940 --> 0:10:07.030 you're making 42 bucks a week. That's pretty good charf I 0:10:07.030 --> 0:10:09.780 reckon, but you just got to do your numbers and prepare to 0:10:09.780 --> 0:10:13.450 get burnt sometimes. I've been burnt. Don't worry about that. They stick 0:10:13.450 --> 0:10:14.959 in the memory bank, the ones where you get burnt 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:16.939 and you just got to move on from them, but you 0:10:16.940 --> 0:10:19.840 can't dwell on them, because they'll bring you ... Make you crazy in the 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:20.150 head or something. 0:10:20.990 --> 0:10:23.601 That's probably a good segue. What's probably one of your better wins? 0:10:23.601 --> 0:10:27.760 I can give you a couple of my losses. I had some lambs I got from up 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.449 North. It was only 220 of them, I reckon from 0:10:31.450 --> 0:10:34.100 memory, something like that, that came down. Really good lambs too, 0:10:34.100 --> 0:10:37.390 they were, and it was a pretty hot day and I had them in a pen and I 0:10:37.390 --> 0:10:39.910 felt a bit sorry. We just had them shorn and I 0:10:40.010 --> 0:10:41.700 started to feel a bit sorry for them. I thought, " I'll 0:10:41.700 --> 0:10:43.500 just let them out of the pen, and led them 0:10:43.500 --> 0:10:46.100 up a lane way and get a bit more shade." They've got 0:10:46.100 --> 0:10:47.990 shade in their pens already, but I just thought they can get a bit more and get under 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.510 some trees, and there was a bit of water there. They can lay around 0:10:51.590 --> 0:10:55.640 and just ease them into it. I wish I didn't now, because I lost 62 that 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.290 day, I remember out of that mob. I'm was pretty sure it was 220, 0:10:58.290 --> 0:11:00.929 so I lost 62 of them to nitrate poisoning. Ended 0:11:00.929 --> 0:11:04.229 up getting the (OLS) fed out and we cut them up, and they got into 0:11:04.230 --> 0:11:07.880 a heap of mint weed, where the mint weed grows. It was a bit 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.530 of a bare lane way and heap of green mint weed 0:11:10.530 --> 0:11:16.670 comes through and smells lovely. But yeah, that smell of the dead sheep overtook that after a while. That's 0:11:16.670 --> 0:11:19.189 some of the losses, but look, where there's losses, there's 0:11:19.190 --> 0:11:26.090 wins too, don't worry. One that sticks your mind, I remember buying some lambs. They 0:11:26.090 --> 0:11:29.240 were composites. Anyway, I went through and drafted ... I mixed sexes. 0:11:29.300 --> 0:11:31.640 I went through and drafted the ewes out, give them four weeks 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.380 on feed and spun them around. They looked pretty good. 0:11:33.850 --> 0:11:36.179 They come back looking pretty neat and put them on 0:11:36.179 --> 0:11:39.120 the box, and yeah, that was a nice little windfall 0:11:39.380 --> 0:11:42.360 in them, 80 bucks or something in for a week, 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.640 which doesn't happen all that often. They made up for 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.640 the losses beforehand. You've got to think outside the square a 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.620 little bit too sometimes, doing stuff like that, like if you buy mixed sexes and 0:11:51.350 --> 0:11:55.130 you can wheel some out and do something a bit different, that's not a bad thing. 0:11:55.730 --> 0:11:58.990 You mentioned before, livestock prices have been pretty eye watering 0:11:59.210 --> 0:12:02.540 since the drought broke in 2020. Pull out your crystal 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:04.840 ball, and what are prices going to do mate, in 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:05.740 the next six months? 0:12:05.740 --> 0:12:08.860 I believe the cattle job in the next six months, 0:12:08.860 --> 0:12:11.329 Queensland going to drive the day. They'll come in swinging a pretty big 0:12:11.330 --> 0:12:14.280 bat, I reckon. Now they're getting a bit of rain, Queensland 0:12:14.340 --> 0:12:17.739 will drive that cattle job. I got little bit of an insight 0:12:17.740 --> 0:12:20.140 when I take bulls up there, and there's no cattle 0:12:20.260 --> 0:12:22.910 around up there and them fellows, a lot of that's real 0:12:22.910 --> 0:12:25.670 proper cattle country and they'll come in swinging a big 0:12:25.670 --> 0:12:29.600 bat for females and that herd rebuilding thing. That's probably 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:31.990 one of the major things that's probably going to happen 0:12:31.990 --> 0:12:35.340 there, looking into a crystal ball. I think livestock in 0:12:35.340 --> 0:12:37.210 general for the next few years are going to be quite good, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.429 just with the whole herd rebuilding. Numbers are down, plenty of 0:12:40.429 --> 0:12:43.770 confidence, plenty of feed, and it'll still keep pretty solid, 0:12:44.340 --> 0:12:47.160 and good quality animals always sell too. If you can 0:12:47.230 --> 0:12:50.380 chase that quality or breed that better quality, or spend that 0:12:50.380 --> 0:12:52.280 little bit extra more on your bull that you buy 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.130 and stuff like that, that definitely changes things too. We bought 0:12:55.330 --> 0:12:56.920 some bulls over the years and kept a bit of 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.800 a track of what they actually do for you and stuff. I 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.090 remember, the very first time we'd done it, we paid $10, 0:13:01.580 --> 0:13:03.010 000 for a bull back then. 0:13:03.050 --> 0:13:04.340 Which was big money back then. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.079 That was massive money back then. I still remember the day 0:13:06.670 --> 0:13:08.480 we bought him. I kept a bit of a track of 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.870 it just to see what it actually done, and yeah, 0:13:10.870 --> 0:13:12.900 that bull made a hell of a difference within our 0:13:12.900 --> 0:13:16.890 herd. We sold $ 240,000 worth of progeny out of that bull, out of a $10, 0:13:17.030 --> 0:13:20.740 000 purchase and ever since then, I've believe that they're 0:13:20.740 --> 0:13:23.950 a pretty cheap article to buy if you keep track 0:13:23.950 --> 0:13:26.480 of them and follow it through. We don't mind spending 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:27.880 a bit of money, if they're the right article. 0:13:28.980 --> 0:13:30.860 That return on investment there's not a bad one. 0:13:31.050 --> 0:13:32.940 That was a good return on investment, that one, but 0:13:33.230 --> 0:13:35.939 it's like an anything. You get some that aren't (inaudible) sometimes, but 0:13:35.940 --> 0:13:39.470 I think, yeah, quality. Crystal ball, quality's always going to 0:13:39.470 --> 0:13:41.979 pay, females are where it's going to be at for the next little 0:13:41.980 --> 0:13:44.270 bit. It sounds like a lot of money, going and spending three 0:13:44.270 --> 0:13:46.160 and a half thousand on a cow and calf unit 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.240 at the moment or something like that, but you break it 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.890 down to she's a 600 kilo cow. Around that weight, 0:13:51.540 --> 0:13:53.780 it's not all that much money. When you break it 0:13:53.780 --> 0:13:57.290 down, there's a weaner there and you can her back in calf again. Things like that, 0:13:57.990 --> 0:13:59.640 that's where I'm going to be looking at, I suppose, 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:00.819 in the next six months or whatever. 0:14:01.290 --> 0:14:04.709 Mate, have you got any trading tips for producers that are looking to 0:14:04.710 --> 0:14:05.670 step into trading? 0:14:06.090 --> 0:14:09.370 Quality. If you can just buy quality. I've just loaded 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.850 the B Double of not such good quality and that reiterated that today. 0:14:14.260 --> 0:14:19.530 They were cheap at the time, but they are cheap for a reason. Well, I can give you a prime example. I bought some 0:14:19.530 --> 0:14:22.680 females at the exact same time, some good, well- bred 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.880 heifers, carved them down. We bought these cattle in February this year. Yeah, 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.340 so there was some cattle out of the North that we bought that were cheap, and 0:14:29.340 --> 0:14:32.820 then I went to Victoria and bought some females out 0:14:32.820 --> 0:14:36.620 of their well- bred females. Carved them down in March 0:14:36.700 --> 0:14:41.310 and sold them in April. Had them for 60 days and 0:14:41.310 --> 0:14:45.980 I made $1, 300 a unit clear profit on them, and 0:14:45.980 --> 0:14:50.450 I've had these other Northern cattle from February till ... What 0:14:50.450 --> 0:14:54.930 is it now? The start of December, and obviously, they're not sold yet, but they'll be 0:14:54.930 --> 0:14:58.400 sold tomorrow, but in that same sort of period, I'm 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.640 probably only going to make a $1, 000, and that's with weaning a calf, often 0:15:02.900 --> 0:15:06.090 putting them back in calf, which is still nothing to be sneezed at. A $1, 0:15:06.350 --> 0:15:10.460 000 is still a $1, 000, but time period and the amount of feed they can consume and stuff like 0:15:10.460 --> 0:15:13.110 that, yeah, I'll change my approach a little bit there, and it's been 0:15:14.170 --> 0:15:17.720 the same too with feeding lambs. I've had some disaster 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.420 stories. Probably just animals that are not quite bred well 0:15:21.420 --> 0:15:26.540 enough, or people maybe use their own rams and things like that. A bit of a list of some 0:15:26.540 --> 0:15:29.360 that I don't worry about touching anymore and others that I'll 0:15:30.050 --> 0:15:33.390 jump at them at a heartbeat. I've had some very good composite lambs 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.950 that have gone pretty well. I remember weighing them last 0:15:36.950 --> 0:15:39.110 year and I thought, " There's something wrong with the scales." Some of 0:15:39.110 --> 0:15:43.590 them were doing 500 grams a day at their peak. They were just humming, but it all comes 0:15:43.590 --> 0:15:44.780 back to quality, I believe. 0:15:45.270 --> 0:15:49.190 When I first purchased my first starter mob, they were pretty 0:15:49.190 --> 0:15:51.690 wild and pretty wooly, and that's definitely the first tip 0:15:51.690 --> 0:15:54.430 that my agent and others have told me is to 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:55.810 get into more quality. 0:15:56.420 --> 0:15:58.060 As long as there's still twist in them, you can do 0:15:58.060 --> 0:16:00.001 it, but if things turn sour and you got to (inaudible) 0:16:00.001 --> 0:16:02.960 and offload them, sometimes that twist isn't there. 0:16:03.230 --> 0:16:06.700 You've really mentioned a lot about leasing and adjestment, and you've got 0:16:06.770 --> 0:16:10.120 stock over a few different places. My dad who's quite 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.040 good mates with you, loves telling me how you've got 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.890 cattle spread from Condo, to sheep up at Monto or 0:16:15.970 --> 0:16:20.040 Lyndhurst and in Lithgow. How do you manage having stock 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:21.510 spread over so much of the state? 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:23.690 Yeah. You spent a fair bit of time in a 0:16:23.690 --> 0:16:26.100 vehicle, which is all good too, but I just like 0:16:26.100 --> 0:16:29.020 spreading the geographical risk. I'm a big believer in that. 0:16:29.590 --> 0:16:32.840 I started it a little while ago. A few years ago, in 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.050 the drought actually, I started spreading a few around and 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.500 that geographical risk or where someplace will get a rain 0:16:39.500 --> 0:16:43.800 and the other one misses out, there's a big difference there. But yeah, no, you do a lot of time in a motor vehicle. I bought a 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:48.350 new car this year, back in March or something, and now it's got 50 odd thousand Ks on it in six months or whatever, but yeah, look, 0:16:48.510 --> 0:16:53.730 it's easy enough to manage, if you partner yourself up 0:16:53.730 --> 0:16:56.410 with some other good farmers that are happy to run 0:16:56.410 --> 0:16:57.960 an eye over them and get on a phone and 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:59.550 give you a call, if there's something wrong and that. 0:17:00.740 --> 0:17:03.650 At the moment, I've got the Gunnedah block, so there's 1, 300 acres at Gunnedah, 0:17:04.150 --> 0:17:07.659 and then I got some sheep out at Parks. They're out 0:17:07.790 --> 0:17:10.619 there on adjestment, and then I've obviously got our own one at 0:17:12.180 --> 0:17:14.150 Forbes, and then I had some cattle down at Wonga, 0:17:14.150 --> 0:17:16.200 but just sold them, and then yeah, got some other 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.119 country at Lithgow as well as along with our Lyndhurst country. Yeah, I've 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.000 got a bit of a spread on them at the moment, but there was 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.480 one stage there last year, I remember my wife saying to me, " 0:17:24.700 --> 0:17:27.639 You're mad." We had stock on 13 different places or 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.460 something, but if you can make the numbers stack up, 0:17:30.460 --> 0:17:34.000 and grass is cheap and transport's cheap. If you're doing 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.730 a few numbers, it all works out in the wash, so 0:17:37.710 --> 0:17:39.720 you've got to be prepared to get a slap across 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.560 the wrist every now and then or something like that. But no, I think it works and it 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.780 works for quite well, and actually, there's some at Dubbo too. I've got 0:17:45.780 --> 0:17:48.900 some lambs at Dubbo, but everything will be making its way 0:17:48.900 --> 0:17:52.210 back shortly and getting locked up and fed and whatever 0:17:52.210 --> 0:17:54.880 else, but I do like having them in different areas and keeps 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.689 you thinking too. It keeps the brain ticking and it's 0:17:57.690 --> 0:17:59.680 good, and you learn a lot. I've learned a lot 0:18:00.140 --> 0:18:02.609 by doing that, just different areas and how they work, 0:18:02.609 --> 0:18:04.639 and what's the better times of the year, and remember, 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:06.940 I sent some lambs out to Condo. Not this winter, 0:18:06.940 --> 0:18:10.669 the one just before and they're flying. I had 1, 500 0:18:10.670 --> 0:18:14.330 lambs out there on adjestment, just to slow those crop up and they absolutely 0:18:14.550 --> 0:18:18.680 flew, and that's bit warmer country too. If you can move 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.369 it around to suit the climate a little bit, it's 0:18:20.369 --> 0:18:22.869 a good thing, I think, as long as you're happy 0:18:22.869 --> 0:18:25.200 to get out and about and chase it a bit, I suppose. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.710 Probably, the drought and spreading your risk is really what's 0:18:28.710 --> 0:18:29.369 driven you, for sure. 0:18:29.490 --> 0:18:35.020 Yep. For sure. Without a doubt. I remember, I sent cattle down to Lithgow for 0:18:35.020 --> 0:18:37.930 the winter, and I mean, I was born down there and left there 0:18:37.930 --> 0:18:42.440 a fair while ago now, but I remember the winters being cold down 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.359 there and I thought, " I'm mad probably, sending cattle down 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.290 there," but they're running around down there in the hills, and they 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.380 can actually get up in the hills and they get half 0:18:49.380 --> 0:18:52.700 protected, and now that's an ongoing thing. Every March, I'll 0:18:52.700 --> 0:18:55.370 wean my calves and move the cows down there, and they spend 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.330 the winter down there and bring them back in August, and they come back fat 0:18:58.330 --> 0:19:02.000 as fools and you're just ... I can't fathom it, but they get up them gullies 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:03.530 and they get out of the weather, and it's not too 0:19:03.530 --> 0:19:06.740 bad. It's been different ways to learn things. I learned a 0:19:06.740 --> 0:19:08.530 bit, like that sort of stuff when I went over 0:19:08.530 --> 0:19:11.090 to Canada a couple of years ago. We went to a 0:19:11.090 --> 0:19:13.109 university. They were doing some studies there, and they were 0:19:13.430 --> 0:19:16.730 trying to wind down the cows, like how much they could feed them during 0:19:16.730 --> 0:19:19.890 winter. I remember, so they had some 500 kilo cows 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.530 and they were in snow up to their bellies, and they 0:19:22.609 --> 0:19:25.550 wound them down to 10 kilos a day and they held 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.460 their condition, and that was ... Things like that impressed me, and I learn a 0:19:29.460 --> 0:19:31.540 bit and thought, " Well, you can make them tough it out if 0:19:31.540 --> 0:19:33.970 you have to, over the winter, especially dry cows." 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.070