WEBVTT - Dream Dorpers: Inside one of Australia’s largest Dorper studs 0:00:00.270 --> 0:00:09.510 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.510 --> 0:00:12.480 a good yarn about Ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.210 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:18.420 in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements, 0:00:18.570 --> 0:00:22.380 making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll get 0:00:22.380 --> 0:00:24.690 a laugh out of some of their stories and also 0:00:24.690 --> 0:00:27.450 pick up some know- how along the way. I'm your 0:00:27.450 --> 0:00:35.159 host Neroli Brennan. Today we're catching up with Grace Hadley. 0:00:35.610 --> 0:00:39.840 Grace is the business manager at Burrawang West, an 11,000 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:44.010 acre mixed farming property between Condobolin and Parkes, which is 0:00:44.070 --> 0:00:48.060 owned by the AAM Investment Group. Grace's main focus is 0:00:48.060 --> 0:00:53.880 managing their Burrawang Dorper and White Dorper Stud programs. In this episode, 0:00:54.060 --> 0:00:57.810 we look at how Burrawang focuses on breeding rams, selected 0:00:57.810 --> 0:01:01.320 on conformation and fertility to produce lambs of a mid- 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.819 maturity growth type. Grace also tells us how Burrawang uses 0:01:05.819 --> 0:01:11.069 various strategies to train their Dorpers for quiet temperaments and 0:01:11.220 --> 0:01:14.670 how an eight- month joining means two ram sale days 0:01:14.910 --> 0:01:18.720 and a lot more work. Local land services mixed farming 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.770 advisor Rohan Leach hit the road towards Condobolin to bring 0:01:22.770 --> 0:01:24.539 you this chat with Grace. 0:01:27.510 --> 0:01:31.110 G'day listeners. Today I'm with Grace Hadley from Burrawang Dorper Stud 0:01:31.110 --> 0:01:34.350 near Forbes. Grace, welcome to the Seeds for Success podcast. 0:01:34.350 --> 0:01:35.789 Thanks very much for having me, Rohan. 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.010 Can you start off by telling the listeners a bit 0:01:38.010 --> 0:01:40.080 about this Burrawang West the property? 0:01:40.230 --> 0:01:44.250 So we're 25 Kilometres east of Condobolin. It's a bit over 11, 0:01:44.250 --> 0:01:47.970 000 acres. We're a mixed farming enterprise, so we have 0:01:47.970 --> 0:01:50.700 a Dorper sheep stud, which is the main game here, 0:01:50.700 --> 0:01:52.440 and then we do a couple of thousand acres of 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.779 cropping as well. And then we've also got a couple 0:01:54.780 --> 0:01:58.110 of thousand acres locked up in a biodiversity conservation trust. 0:01:58.350 --> 0:01:59.730 You've taken me for a little bit of a drive 0:01:59.730 --> 0:02:03.360 around this morning and there's plenty of creeks and crisscrossing 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.480 waterways across the property. What creeks run through it and 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.310 how do you sort of manage with the creeks? 0:02:08.430 --> 0:02:10.918 Yeah, we're pretty fortunate to have a fair bit of water. 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.139 I didn't think so when we first come across this place, 0:02:13.139 --> 0:02:14.820 and I reckon three months in, we did have the 0:02:14.820 --> 0:02:17.280 biggest flood on record, which is a good break in. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.710 But we have seven kilometres of river frontage from the 0:02:19.710 --> 0:02:22.740 Bumbugga Creek, which is an offshoot of the Loughlin River. 0:02:23.010 --> 0:02:25.680 And then we have the Gubang and Yarrabandi Creeks that run through it 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.320 as well. So we irrigate out of the Bumbuggan Creek. 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.899 We've got a four set of pivots, over 120 acres, 0:02:31.110 --> 0:02:33.990 which yeah, really fortunate to have and definitely helps us 0:02:33.990 --> 0:02:36.300 with the sheep stud to keep that feed coming through. 0:02:36.660 --> 0:02:40.620 And one of those pivots you told me earlier is organic. What 0:02:40.620 --> 0:02:41.070 does that mean? 0:02:41.310 --> 0:02:43.440 Yeah, so we run one of the pivots organic. When 0:02:43.470 --> 0:02:45.720 we first bought the place we had 1800 acres of 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.000 organic country. We've taken it back just to the one 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.130 pivot to make a bit more ease of management. I'm 0:02:50.130 --> 0:02:52.138 going to get a bit more out of that country. 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.270 We make organic hay out of that, so that goes 0:02:54.270 --> 0:02:57.090 up to our northern property at Blackall. They run an 0:02:57.090 --> 0:02:59.250 organic sheep and cattle place up there, so we send 0:02:59.250 --> 0:03:01.710 that hay up there and it's really good integration between 0:03:01.710 --> 0:03:03.360 the businesses as it can be hard to come by. 0:03:03.690 --> 0:03:06.780 I should have mentioned earlier that AAM Investment Group is 0:03:06.780 --> 0:03:09.000 the company that you work for and we probably will get 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.380 into sort of how it fits in overall, but getting 0:03:13.380 --> 0:03:16.500 back more to Burrawang West, what are the soil types here? 0:03:16.740 --> 0:03:19.530 So it goes from anything from Red Loams all the way through 0:03:19.530 --> 0:03:22.050 to heavy cracking clays. We have a fair bit of variability, 0:03:22.230 --> 0:03:24.600 which also works in well with the sheep and the cropping. 0:03:24.900 --> 0:03:26.580 We get to map it out on the place which 0:03:26.610 --> 0:03:29.760 what best suits and then yeah, get to manage that accordingly. 0:03:33.870 --> 0:03:33.871 And matching pastures to those soils. What have you got on farm? 0:03:33.871 --> 0:03:35.070 Yeah, so we have a fair bit of loosen and which we 0:03:35.070 --> 0:03:37.110 make hay off to keep in the shed and then 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.080 also grow out some of our younger lambs on that loosen. 0:03:40.410 --> 0:03:42.210 And then we've got a fair bit of native country 0:03:42.300 --> 0:03:44.730 that we utilize, especially for the Dorcas because it's pretty well suited. They 0:03:44.730 --> 0:03:47.370 like a range of options when they're grazing and that 0:03:47.370 --> 0:03:48.271 seems to work in well at the moment. 0:03:48.271 --> 0:03:48.541 So what's your role specifically here? 0:03:51.270 --> 0:03:53.640 So I'm the business manager here, so we have a team 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.390 of four staff including myself. I've got a livestock overseer 0:03:57.390 --> 0:04:00.840 and then a cropping and a sheep farmhand and my job 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.420 can range from absolutely anything, but I look after the 0:04:03.420 --> 0:04:06.450 sheep stud is probably my main game. So yeah, anything 0:04:06.450 --> 0:04:09.510 from movements, joinings right that way through to preparing our 0:04:09.510 --> 0:04:12.120 ramps for the sale and preparing the catalog and everything. 0:04:12.300 --> 0:04:14.580 And then the cropping side of things, obviously we do 0:04:14.580 --> 0:04:16.320 some of it on site and then some of it 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.409 is a contractor model, so managing that and the staff and 0:04:19.410 --> 0:04:21.779 then obviously we have a fair bit of business stuff 0:04:21.779 --> 0:04:24.630 to do. I work for AAM, which is an investment company, 0:04:24.630 --> 0:04:26.550 so there's a lot of business side to this and 0:04:26.550 --> 0:04:28.740 we do a lot of budgeting and forecasting, which is 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.890 real beneficial looking forward and then also seeing what worked 0:04:31.890 --> 0:04:32.970 well in the past. 0:04:33.270 --> 0:04:35.429 So I'd like to know a bit more about the 0:04:35.430 --> 0:04:40.109 Burrawang Stud and how it fits in with AAM group structure. Can 0:04:40.110 --> 0:04:40.860 you tell me about that? 0:04:40.860 --> 0:04:42.900 The aim of the game is to have a bit more of an 0:04:42.900 --> 0:04:48.029 integrated lamb supply chain. So our Blackall property Terrick Terrick Station 0:04:48.029 --> 0:04:52.500 has 50,000 Dorper ewes, so that was established like early 2021. 0:04:52.740 --> 0:04:54.990 As part of that, we wanted to procure a seed 0:04:54.990 --> 0:04:57.479 stock business so that we could manage the genetics that 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.810 we're getting. So yeah, when Burrawang was identified, we purchased 0:05:00.810 --> 0:05:04.740 it in July 2022 and we're really looking to expand 0:05:04.740 --> 0:05:07.620 those genetics not only to improve the rams that are 0:05:07.620 --> 0:05:10.560 going to our clients, but also to send them up 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.850 to Terrick Terrick Station to integrate with our youth flock up there. 0:05:14.850 --> 0:05:19.770 The Terrick Station, 50, 000 ewes, are you breeding rams for all of 0:05:19.770 --> 0:05:21.750 them or are you sourcing genetics elsewhere? 0:05:21.900 --> 0:05:24.000 I'd absolutely love to say we are at the position where 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.970 we can do, but we outsourced rams early on from 0:05:26.970 --> 0:05:29.729 a lot of sister studs and stuff, so we run 0:05:29.730 --> 0:05:31.950 as a standalone business. While we are integrated, we have 0:05:31.950 --> 0:05:34.710 to make money ourselves. Our clients come first and foremost, 0:05:34.710 --> 0:05:37.020 so when we have a draft of rams, we keep 0:05:37.260 --> 0:05:40.410 a top 5% for ourselves on the stud to produce 0:05:40.410 --> 0:05:43.830 further ramps. Then the next draft whatever goes into our sale. 0:05:43.830 --> 0:05:47.070 So we aim to sell between 300 and 400 rams a year 0:05:47.070 --> 0:05:49.890 on our two on- farm sales and then anything surplus 0:05:49.890 --> 0:05:51.690 to that, which is the bottom end of the grade 0:05:51.810 --> 0:05:54.960 head up to Terrick. And we then are also very 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.330 fortunate to have access to the size here, which we 0:05:57.630 --> 0:06:00.300 utilize by collecting seamen, sending it up to Terrick and 0:06:00.300 --> 0:06:03.120 doing AI programs up there to continue to advance those 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:03.661 genetics as well. 0:06:03.661 --> 0:06:03.931 When you first purchased the stud back in '22, how many rams was that stud producing then? 0:06:10.020 --> 0:06:12.630 When we took over, there's about 2000 Stud ewes and we've 0:06:12.690 --> 0:06:15.690 probably grown it to about 2,600 or 2, 700 now. It is a 0:06:15.690 --> 0:06:18.839 slow progression to make sure that we're keeping the right 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.930 ewes and that we're also continuing to cull on ewes 0:06:21.930 --> 0:06:24.600 that aren't performing the way we want them to, specifically 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.029 on structure but also on fertility, which is a very 0:06:27.029 --> 0:06:27.900 big focus for us. 0:06:28.380 --> 0:06:31.260 So you've increased your numbers, are you looking to increase 0:06:31.260 --> 0:06:33.299 more or is this about the sort of level that 0:06:33.300 --> 0:06:34.710 you're wanting to stay at? 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.710 Yeah, definitely. We'd love to increase and we have increased it since we've 0:06:37.710 --> 0:06:40.170 been here. Like I think we've done eight ET programs 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.300 to sort of work on one or two pretty big 0:06:42.300 --> 0:06:45.029 ET programs a year of about 140 donors and that's 0:06:45.029 --> 0:06:48.210 been very critical in advancing that genetic gain and getting 0:06:48.210 --> 0:06:50.909 those matchups right and increasing the numbers. But we're just 0:06:50.910 --> 0:06:53.940 very conscious of making sure that we're increasing the right numbers. 0:06:54.089 --> 0:06:55.289 We don't just want to be able to say we've 0:06:55.290 --> 0:06:57.779 got 4,000 ewes. We want to be able to say we've got 4, 000 of 0:06:57.779 --> 0:06:59.669 the right ewes that are going to take us forward 0:06:59.670 --> 0:07:01.080 and take our clients forward as well. 0:07:01.290 --> 0:07:04.020 Now after hearing you talk, people would probably be a 0:07:04.020 --> 0:07:06.539 bit shocked to know that you're only 24 years old. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.790 So can you tell me a bit about your path 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:09.960 in the ag industry Grace? 0:07:10.260 --> 0:07:12.150 I've been really fortunate. I grew up on a cattle 0:07:12.210 --> 0:07:15.480 property east of Bathurst and then when I was 18 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.820 I finished school and I moved to Armidale and completed 0:07:17.820 --> 0:07:20.160 uni there. So I did three years there doing an 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:21.090 ag science degree. 0:07:23.100 --> 0:07:23.101 Albies or Rob? 0:07:23.101 --> 0:07:28.440 Controversial question. I didn't go to either. I went to Devour College. And absolutely loved 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.870 my time there and got to meet a good mix 0:07:30.870 --> 0:07:33.300 of people from a lot of different backgrounds. And then, yeah, 0:07:33.300 --> 0:07:36.960 two years into my uni degree was COVID and I 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.760 didn't get much of an opportunity to go out and 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.310 do many placements or anything or do practicals at uni. 0:07:41.580 --> 0:07:44.220 So I was very fortunate through a very long distance 0:07:44.220 --> 0:07:46.500 contact to end up at Sunshine Farms out here at 0:07:46.500 --> 0:07:49.920 Forbes working for AAM under Greg Wynn. And yeah, I 0:07:49.980 --> 0:07:52.440 cannot talk highly enough about my time there like that 0:07:52.500 --> 0:07:55.110 definitely kickstarted my career and these guys have been really, 0:07:55.110 --> 0:07:57.570 really good to me. So I worked harvest there and 0:07:57.570 --> 0:07:59.580 did casual work over the summer and then I was 0:07:59.580 --> 0:08:02.100 very fortunate at the end of that year I finished 0:08:02.100 --> 0:08:04.680 exams on the Friday and started there at Sunshine full- 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.490 time as the livestock overseer, which was really exciting and absolutely 0:08:08.490 --> 0:08:11.130 loved my time there. And yeah, in amongst the mix 0:08:11.130 --> 0:08:14.100 of it, AAM bought Burrawang, so I come over here 0:08:14.100 --> 0:08:15.780 to count the sheep when we purchased it to make 0:08:15.780 --> 0:08:18.630 sure they're all here and I'm still here today. I 0:08:18.630 --> 0:08:21.090 definitely didn't come over here with that intention, but here 0:08:21.090 --> 0:08:22.650 I am and yeah, absolutely love it. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.480 So would you put down like a bit of your rise to working 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.060 in corporate agriculture and the structures that they've got in 0:08:30.060 --> 0:08:34.320 place to foster talent or providing a bit of a pathway? 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.850 Yeah, absolutely. Like there's a lot of preconceived conceptions about 0:08:38.850 --> 0:08:41.670 corporate agriculture and like while AAM is a corporate, it's owned 0:08:42.090 --> 0:08:45.510 a hundred percent by Australian families, which I've met. They've 0:08:45.510 --> 0:08:47.880 been really good to me and then it's fully Australian, 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.280 funded the money through the super funds, which I think 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.230 is really important and one of the things that drew 0:08:52.230 --> 0:08:54.750 me towards the business, but they've also, yeah, because it's 0:08:54.750 --> 0:08:57.329 been so big, like I've had so many opportunities when I first 0:08:57.330 --> 0:08:59.790 started working here, I'd dead set, hadn't left New South Wales, 0:08:59.790 --> 0:09:02.010 I'm pretty sure I've nearly been to every state in 0:09:02.010 --> 0:09:04.890 Australia working for AAM and that's given me a lot 0:09:04.890 --> 0:09:06.750 of opportunities and opened my mind to a lot of 0:09:06.750 --> 0:09:09.840 different things and they've also been really good at advancing 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:10.891 my career and giving me those opportunities. 0:09:10.891 --> 0:09:14.520 What's in the future for yourself? What's the goal? 0:09:14.940 --> 0:09:17.550 I get this question so many times, like leaving uni, 0:09:17.550 --> 0:09:20.819 this is like my 15- year plan to go on and manage a place 0:09:20.820 --> 0:09:23.190 and brain's still playing catch up, but at the moment I'm 0:09:23.190 --> 0:09:25.319 just absolutely loving the opportunity of what I want to 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.260 do and yeah, getting to do it better and better 0:09:28.260 --> 0:09:29.910 every day and looking at ways to improve. 0:09:30.300 --> 0:09:32.309 So let's get into the nuts and bolts of the 0:09:32.309 --> 0:09:35.520 Burrawang Stud. So what sort of rams are you aiming to breed here? 0:09:35.850 --> 0:09:38.640 First and foremost, we start on structure. So they get 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.040 assessed from six months of age all the way through 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.830 to when we sell them, multiple times. Because they're such 0:09:43.830 --> 0:09:46.709 a quick growing animal they can change. So we want 0:09:46.710 --> 0:09:49.319 to get that structure right because these animals, whilst they 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.780 may only go into a small intensive place, a lot 0:09:51.780 --> 0:09:54.480 of our rams are going out into extensive areas in 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:56.610 Western Queensland and Western New South Wales where they have 0:09:56.610 --> 0:09:59.189 to do a lot of walking and get the job done. 0:09:59.250 --> 0:10:00.870 So we don't want them to break down. So we 0:10:00.870 --> 0:10:03.179 focus a lot on that, which we're very fortunate to 0:10:03.179 --> 0:10:06.570 have Nev Kelly who manages our Blackall property, he comes 0:10:06.570 --> 0:10:08.429 down and does our classing. He's not only had a 0:10:08.429 --> 0:10:11.160 lot of experience in the merino industry classing, but he's 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.280 also manages the 50,000 ewes at Terrick. So he gets to 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.410 see day to day what those rams need to do 0:10:16.620 --> 0:10:18.660 and what we need them to be bred like to 0:10:18.660 --> 0:10:21.599 be able to achieve that successfully. Next biggest thing for 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:25.559 us is fertility. So our ewes are continuously reviewed every 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.270 time they go in for a joining, they get reviewed 0:10:27.270 --> 0:10:29.699 how many lambs they've had, what those progeny have done 0:10:29.910 --> 0:10:31.830 to make sure that they keep coming through and performing 0:10:31.830 --> 0:10:34.439 under those eight month joinings and then pass that on 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.260 to their rams. So we're looking for a mid- maturing 0:10:37.260 --> 0:10:39.870 ram that's going to put that early growth into those lambs. 0:10:39.870 --> 0:10:41.699 A lot of our clients are turning these lambs off 0:10:41.700 --> 0:10:44.550 anywhere between three to five months, so they really need 0:10:44.550 --> 0:10:46.559 to put that early growth into those lambs and get 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:47.910 them turned off as quick as possible. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.270 One of the criticisms maybe of Dorpers is that they 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.360 probably lay on fat too early or mature too early. 0:10:54.630 --> 0:10:55.201 What do you say to that? 0:10:55.201 --> 0:10:58.320 So it's all about how you manage it and I think there is a 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.890 lot of preconceived rumours around about that, but we're seeing 0:11:01.890 --> 0:11:04.829 more and more that the abattoirs are absolutely loving the Dorpers. 0:11:05.010 --> 0:11:08.010 There's a lot of abattoirs that are preferencing them now, and 0:11:08.100 --> 0:11:10.920 they are also looking at them not only as a 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.780 lamb that can be killed at 24 kilos, but they 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.890 can actually grow out to that 28 to 32 kilos. Internally our 0:11:16.890 --> 0:11:19.830 lambs at Blackall get either go onto some of our 0:11:19.830 --> 0:11:22.170 other properties to get fattened or they go into a 0:11:22.170 --> 0:11:24.390 feedlot scenario where they are getting to that weight and 0:11:24.390 --> 0:11:26.670 we're having really, really good success with both yield and 0:11:26.670 --> 0:11:27.750 carcass results on them. 0:11:28.020 --> 0:11:34.020 Talking about your carcass results, like is eye muscle area, marbling, yield, 0:11:34.020 --> 0:11:36.090 those sorts of things that you're trying to improve as well? 0:11:36.090 --> 0:11:38.850 Or is the sort of demand not quite there for those 0:11:38.910 --> 0:11:39.840 particular traits? 0:11:40.020 --> 0:11:43.860 Yeah, absolutely. We're really hoping with the introduction of mandatory 0:11:43.860 --> 0:11:46.110 ERDs that we'll be able to start getting more feedback 0:11:46.110 --> 0:11:49.260 from our clients and our own lambs through the abattoirs 0:11:49.410 --> 0:11:51.540 to get that ball rolling. Like we are dragging the 0:11:51.540 --> 0:11:53.010 chain a little bit with that, so it'll be good 0:11:53.010 --> 0:11:56.580 to see that come through. Internally we're doing our AI programs 0:11:56.580 --> 0:11:59.429 with our sires up at Terrick and we're looking at 0:11:59.429 --> 0:12:01.650 the carcass data from that, which is really interesting and 0:12:01.650 --> 0:12:04.020 we're trying to be part of any trials that are coming 0:12:04.020 --> 0:12:06.689 up and we did our own internal trial combined with 0:12:06.690 --> 0:12:08.880 UNE to get some of that carcass data back, which 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:10.859 was really valuable and we'll look to do more of 0:12:10.860 --> 0:12:11.610 that in the future. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.530 Yeah, cool. So talk me through that trial. 0:12:13.590 --> 0:12:15.450 So that was like our own like we'll call it 0:12:15.450 --> 0:12:17.580 a pilot trial. We just ran it side by side 0:12:17.580 --> 0:12:21.270 with White Dorpers, crossbreds, Merinos just to get that feedback and 0:12:21.270 --> 0:12:22.770 we sent it up there and yeah, we got some really 0:12:22.770 --> 0:12:25.469 interesting results that we're hoping to flesh out in further 0:12:25.470 --> 0:12:28.050 trials and we got them killed and yeah, really positive 0:12:28.050 --> 0:12:31.829 results from the Dorpers and the White Dorpers and it'll be good to flesh 0:12:31.830 --> 0:12:34.530 that out more in some more extensive trials over some 0:12:34.530 --> 0:12:35.190 different areas. 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.829 That's awesome. So can you maybe talk me through your 0:12:37.830 --> 0:12:39.059 calendar of operations? 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.600 Absolutely. So when I first come here, absolute mind- boggles 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.120 to get around, like going from a traditional Merino where 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.640 you lamb once a year is very different. We not 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.429 only do eight- month joinings, but we also have split lambing. So 0:12:50.429 --> 0:12:52.290 half our ewes are on one cycle and half our 0:12:52.290 --> 0:12:54.300 ewes are on the other. That's just to keep the 0:12:54.300 --> 0:12:57.150 consistency of the rams coming through for both our March 0:12:57.150 --> 0:13:00.210 and October sale, getting them the right age and yeah, also 0:13:00.210 --> 0:13:03.030 managing our pastures and everything. Obviously if you land that 0:13:03.030 --> 0:13:05.460 many sheep at once, yeah, it puts a fair bit 0:13:05.460 --> 0:13:07.230 of pressure on your pastures. So we split that up. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.530 So we'll join, we do six- week joinings, try not 0:13:10.530 --> 0:13:12.750 to join so that we're not lambing between that December 0:13:12.750 --> 0:13:14.940 February period, but out of that it's all a little 0:13:14.940 --> 0:13:17.640 bit just, yeah, whenever it times in, sometimes we keep 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.110 them back for a few weeks just to get the 0:13:19.110 --> 0:13:21.510 right timing for those ram sales and everything or bring 0:13:21.510 --> 0:13:24.420 them forward. But yeah, we typically lamb for six weeks. 0:13:24.420 --> 0:13:27.480 We break them into two, three- week periods from scanning 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.030 just to get that accuracy and management easier and then 0:13:30.030 --> 0:13:32.490 we'll put the rams back out at lamb marking, they'll 0:13:32.490 --> 0:13:35.910 stay in there for six weeks. Then we'll scan and yeah, 0:13:35.910 --> 0:13:38.459 after lamb marking, the lambs are typically weaned about that 0:13:38.460 --> 0:13:40.920 three months old age and then they go into our 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.589 weaning program. So a little bit like cattle, we do 0:13:43.590 --> 0:13:45.420 a weaning program here and put them through the yards, 0:13:45.690 --> 0:13:47.460 put them into the feedlot pens and get them used 0:13:47.460 --> 0:13:49.920 to eating hay and worked with dogs run through the yards. 0:13:50.190 --> 0:13:52.559 So that typically lasts between four and five days and 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.240 then they go out in the paddock and that really just 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.340 sets us up so that they're easy to handle later on. 0:13:56.730 --> 0:13:58.650 And one of my staff members doesn't have dogs or 0:13:58.650 --> 0:14:00.479 anything and she can go and muster any of the 0:14:00.510 --> 0:14:03.210 mobs on her own, which is, yeah, really beneficial and 0:14:03.210 --> 0:14:04.620 makes it a lot easier later in life. 0:14:05.309 --> 0:14:07.890 I guess that is probably another, I seem to be 0:14:07.950 --> 0:14:11.340 talking about the criticisms of Dorpers a bit in this podcast, 0:14:11.340 --> 0:14:13.590 but yeah, that does seem to be one of the 0:14:13.590 --> 0:14:16.350 criticisms of Dorpers is that they're all crazy and that 0:14:16.410 --> 0:14:19.770 you can't handle them well. Well you're sort of proving 0:14:19.770 --> 0:14:22.110 that with just a bit of extra work and yard 0:14:22.110 --> 0:14:25.020 weaning like in the cattle program that you can calm 0:14:25.020 --> 0:14:26.430 them right down and settle them. 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.140 Yeah, well I'm not a good liar. I'm not going 0:14:28.140 --> 0:14:29.940 to tell anyone that they're going to be the same 0:14:29.940 --> 0:14:32.640 to manage as Merinos, but it's just about making sure 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.620 you manage them right for the right animal and we 0:14:34.620 --> 0:14:36.330 treat them a little bit more like cattle. They get 0:14:36.330 --> 0:14:38.430 a weaning program, they get set up, but then we 0:14:38.430 --> 0:14:40.230 don't have a lot of issues. But yeah, you just 0:14:40.230 --> 0:14:43.020 need to make sure first and foremost that your fences 0:14:43.020 --> 0:14:45.840 are good. These are very smart animals, which is a 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.000 lot of the reason why they can survive in tougher conditions, 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.160 but it also means that if they get out that fence once, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.470 they're probably going to do it again. Just making sure 0:14:52.470 --> 0:14:54.690 you're setting your fences up right, got good fences and 0:14:54.690 --> 0:14:56.460 making sure that they get the right training at an 0:14:56.460 --> 0:14:58.920 early age so that they can continue that later in 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.020 life and make it a lot easier for everyone around. 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.260 So do you also use sheep handling equipment to make 0:15:04.260 --> 0:15:05.700 things a bit easier in the yards? 0:15:05.790 --> 0:15:08.820 Yeah, absolutely. Very fortunate for that. We've got different weigh boxes, 0:15:08.820 --> 0:15:10.860 automatic handlers and all that sort of thing, which makes 0:15:10.860 --> 0:15:14.070 everything a lot easier, especially the studs pretty intensive, so 0:15:14.310 --> 0:15:16.380 we're using our yards and everything a lot. So very 0:15:16.380 --> 0:15:17.820 fortunate to have those facilities. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.030 And obviously all the things that you've talked about virtually 0:15:21.030 --> 0:15:25.170 impossible without electronic ID. So yeah, what role does that 0:15:25.170 --> 0:15:25.950 play in the business? 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.450 Absolutely critical. So at landmarking they get an EID tag and a visual ID 0:15:30.450 --> 0:15:33.120 tag to link back to each other and then linked 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.130 to that is a DNA sample, so all of our 0:15:35.130 --> 0:15:38.790 animals born on the property are DNA tested and genomically tested, 0:15:39.150 --> 0:15:41.700 which is linked back to that EID. Yeah, obviously we're 0:15:41.700 --> 0:15:43.230 doing it here for a long time, but it's very 0:15:43.230 --> 0:15:45.600 exciting to see that coming in mandatory and hopefully we'll 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.820 start getting that feedback from abattoirs and see that all 0:15:47.820 --> 0:15:48.810 flow through the industry. 0:15:49.290 --> 0:15:51.690 So one final question I had about the stud was are you still sourcing genetics from elsewhere or are you sort 0:15:55.290 --> 0:15:56.250 of closed internally? 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.740 So this has been a closed flock for a number 0:15:58.740 --> 0:16:01.770 of years. I'll never say never. We're also always looking 0:16:01.770 --> 0:16:05.040 at our outside genetics and improving the flock where we can, 0:16:05.070 --> 0:16:07.170 we haven't yet, but yeah, never say never. And we're 0:16:07.230 --> 0:16:09.720 really looking into making sure that we're moving the way 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.450 the industry is and doing everything we can to give 0:16:12.450 --> 0:16:13.320 the best to our clients. 0:16:13.950 --> 0:16:18.120 So I'd like to talk sort of where Dorpers fit wider 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.400 in the sheep industry and sort of pick your brain 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.070 a bit on what your thoughts are there. So where 0:16:23.070 --> 0:16:25.950 do you see Dorpers fitting in the sheep industry? 0:16:26.460 --> 0:16:28.260 Yeah, so everyone thinks, because I've got Dorpers, I'm a 0:16:28.260 --> 0:16:31.290 Merino hater, I definitely am not. I think they absolutely 0:16:31.290 --> 0:16:33.210 have a place in the industry and they always will. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.510 I probably see Dorpers fitting in that fat lamb production 0:16:36.510 --> 0:16:39.930 more so where the cost of shearing is just ever- increasing. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:41.940 So if you can move to a shedding sheep where 0:16:41.940 --> 0:16:44.370 you don't have that cost of shearing but can continue 0:16:44.370 --> 0:16:46.859 the similar lamb production and if in a lot of 0:16:46.860 --> 0:16:49.890 cases better lamb production, then I think that's probably where 0:16:49.890 --> 0:16:51.510 like a lot of people are moving into it. And 0:16:51.510 --> 0:16:54.870 we've seen it in the industry, like 95% of my 0:16:54.870 --> 0:16:58.650 new clients are moving away from wool producing sheep just 0:16:58.650 --> 0:17:00.990 because they're trying to get better lambs and they just 0:17:00.990 --> 0:17:02.760 can't afford that cost of shearing if they don't have 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:03.810 that premium wool clip. 0:17:04.230 --> 0:17:07.230 In the past, most people could associate shearing their cross- 0:17:07.230 --> 0:17:10.470 bred ewes, they might make the money back on the 0:17:10.470 --> 0:17:12.510 cost of shearing, but the last few years has sort 0:17:12.510 --> 0:17:15.570 of shown us that that's been blown right out of 0:17:15.570 --> 0:17:19.500 the park with shearing costs increasing and the coarser wools 0:17:19.890 --> 0:17:24.090 decreasing in value, I guess it makes sense to be 0:17:24.300 --> 0:17:26.910 having shedding sheep as a bigger part of the industry, 0:17:27.180 --> 0:17:29.280 Having shedding sheep shouldn't be a bad word anymore. There's 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.080 a lot of people out and a lot of people having 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.270 great success and I know I speak to a lot of our 0:17:33.270 --> 0:17:35.790 clients out in that western division that yeah, they wouldn't 0:17:35.790 --> 0:17:37.350 have sheep and they probably wouldn't be there if it 0:17:37.350 --> 0:17:39.720 wasn't for Dorpers and what they've allowed them to do, 0:17:39.810 --> 0:17:40.470 which is great. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:46.650 Obviously that obvious tension or divide between Dorper producers and Merino producers, 0:17:46.980 --> 0:17:50.010 have you got any tips or seen any instances where 0:17:50.010 --> 0:17:51.240 that has worked well? 0:17:51.810 --> 0:17:54.720 Yeah, I think we just need to be really open about it. I know a lot 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.270