WEBVTT - Swift lambs and lucerne: High-performance pastures alongside bird conservation 0:00:06.300 --> 0:00:09.420 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.420 --> 0:00:12.390 a good yarn about ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.390 --> 0:00:15.120 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.329 in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.290 making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll get 0:00:22.290 --> 0:00:24.600 a laugh out of some of their stories and also 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.870 pick up some know- how along the way. I'm your host, 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:35.040 Neroli Brennan. Today we're having a yarn with Sam Johnston. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.390 Sam helps manage his family properties alongside his father and 0:00:39.390 --> 0:00:44.190 family 20Ks west of Forbes. While primarily focused on trade, 0:00:44.190 --> 0:00:48.000 lambs and lucerne hay production, in recent years, the Johnstons 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.240 have made a move into breeding composite meat sheep in 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.920 order to maximize profitability. In this episode, Sam talks to 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:01.800 us about how their high- performance pastures, including perennial grasses, lucerne, clover, 0:01:01.830 --> 0:01:06.360 and chicory help them trade between 3 and 4, 500 lambs 0:01:06.690 --> 0:01:10.770 on approximately 150 hectares of river country. You'll also hear 0:01:10.830 --> 0:01:14.010 how dry land and irrigated lucerne hay production is a 0:01:14.010 --> 0:01:17.970 large part of their operation, which sometimes conflicts with their 0:01:17.970 --> 0:01:22.080 lamb production. And as Sam explains, can disrupt cash flow 0:01:22.260 --> 0:01:26.069 depending on the season. Local Land Services mixed farming advisor, 0:01:26.069 --> 0:01:28.740 Rohan Leach, sat down with Sam in the middle of 0:01:28.770 --> 0:01:31.289 haymaking to bring you this episode. 0:01:35.069 --> 0:01:38.760 Good day listeners. Today I'm with Sam Johnston from Forbes. Sam, 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:40.740 welcome to the Seeds for Success Podcast. 0:01:40.830 --> 0:01:43.649 Thank you Rohan. Very excited to be here. I've listened 0:01:43.650 --> 0:01:45.750 to a few of the podcasts and yeah, fired up 0:01:45.750 --> 0:01:46.560 to be on today. 0:01:46.890 --> 0:01:50.250 Great. Love to meet another fan. Mate, can you just 0:01:50.250 --> 0:01:52.860 start off by giving us a bit of a rundown 0:01:53.070 --> 0:01:54.690 of your operation here at Walla Wallah? 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.590 Yeah, so where dad and I run a family show here, 0:01:58.710 --> 0:02:02.670 20K is west of Forbes, which is where he and I are both based. 0:02:02.730 --> 0:02:06.450 He's been in the Forbes area since the mid 70s, moved 0:02:06.450 --> 0:02:10.440 up to Forbes from the western suburbs of Sydney, looking 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.250 for a viable irrigation farm and kept coming west until 0:02:14.250 --> 0:02:17.549 he landed out at Corinella where he farmed for 35 0:02:17.669 --> 0:02:19.980 years and then got a little bit tied up in 0:02:19.980 --> 0:02:23.340 the corporate space for 3 or 4 years and then more recently 0:02:23.700 --> 0:02:27.210 got out and relocated a little bit closer back to Forbes, 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.299 which is at Walla Wallah where he is now. Then 0:02:30.389 --> 0:02:34.530 I've recently returned home to the farm after a stint 0:02:34.530 --> 0:02:38.609 in Sydney for schooling, university and 3 years of work, 0:02:38.940 --> 0:02:43.560 and recently in 2020, so 4 years ago now. But 0:02:43.590 --> 0:02:49.620 we're at the moment, got about 570 hectares between 3 0:02:49.620 --> 0:02:52.080 parcels of land or 3 different farms. The one we're 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.080 on today is dad's place, Walla Wallah, which is about 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.460 80 hectares or 220 acres. I'm next door on 60 hectares, 0:02:59.490 --> 0:03:01.860 which I've had for 4 years. And then we've got 0:03:01.860 --> 0:03:05.100 another dryland block right next door to the east of 0:03:05.100 --> 0:03:09.450 the Central West Livestock Exchange, which is about 430 hectares. 0:03:09.510 --> 0:03:13.050 So that gives us 570 hectares all up and our 0:03:13.050 --> 0:03:17.490 operation is a mixed farming enterprise, but probably more swaying 0:03:17.490 --> 0:03:21.030 towards the livestock and the hay production. And whilst we run a 0:03:21.030 --> 0:03:25.169 few cattle, we're mainly sheep so we trade or we're going to try and trade 0:03:25.169 --> 0:03:27.990 now after recovering the flood, sort of anywhere from 3, 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:33.870 500 to 4,500 trade stock and probably have about 1, 000 breeding ewes on 0:03:33.900 --> 0:03:37.800 farm at the moment in conjunction with our hay production business, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.580 which is trying to grow about 1, 000 tons of lucerne hay each 0:03:41.580 --> 0:03:44.820 year and also a little bit diversified with a few 0:03:44.820 --> 0:03:48.240 other off- farm business interests, which include rural property sales 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.930 and marketing, and a few other investment divisions that dad 0:03:51.930 --> 0:03:55.260 runs as well. So something different every day, but makes 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:56.460 for an interesting week. 0:03:56.670 --> 0:04:00.450 Got a bit on there mate. So roughly, rough figures, probably 0:04:00.450 --> 0:04:03.720 about 150 hectares here on the river across the 2 places. 0:04:03.780 --> 0:04:06.540 Yeah, so about 150 hectares here and then- 0:04:07.230 --> 0:04:09.630 The dryland block. So can you talk me through the 0:04:09.780 --> 0:04:13.410 differences basically in the two, we'll call this one farm 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:14.970 and then the dryland farm as well? 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.450 Well, at the river blocks, which is the stuff on 0:04:18.450 --> 0:04:23.370 the Lachlan River, South Condo Road, we're primarily high performance pastures, 0:04:23.370 --> 0:04:28.260 mixed pastures and lucerne hay production. So it's all mainly 0:04:28.740 --> 0:04:32.370 that sort of heavier, darker alluvial river flats. We're very 0:04:32.370 --> 0:04:35.580 lucky in this little pocket we have being upstream of 0:04:35.580 --> 0:04:37.500 the Jemalong Weir that we've got quite a bit of 0:04:37.890 --> 0:04:42.210 free watering seepage loosen flats, which keep the growth window 0:04:42.300 --> 0:04:45.420 right open and save on having to irrigate. We get 0:04:45.420 --> 0:04:48.029 about 17 hectares of irrigation on some of the weaker 0:04:48.060 --> 0:04:51.930 country further away from the river, which just keeps obviously 0:04:51.930 --> 0:04:55.080 the ability to irrigate open for us. So we irrigate 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.870 out of the river. And then the dryland block, which 0:04:57.870 --> 0:05:00.539 is next to the sale yards, was probably bought about 0:05:00.540 --> 0:05:03.300 seven years ago and it was set up as a wall to 0:05:03.630 --> 0:05:06.000 wall cropping place that had been back to back cropping 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.839 for quite some time and we've spent the last probably 0:05:09.900 --> 0:05:13.740 three to five years fencing that down into smaller parcels 0:05:13.740 --> 0:05:16.620 and sort of setting it up as a livestock breeding 0:05:16.710 --> 0:05:18.930 and fattening enterprise. So we put quite a bit of 0:05:18.930 --> 0:05:21.750 new pasture in there, obviously done a fairly big tree 0:05:21.750 --> 0:05:25.710 planting project there and yeah, just trying to subdivide it 0:05:25.710 --> 0:05:29.220 up into more manageable paddock sizes, which has been a very 0:05:29.220 --> 0:05:32.250 exciting project. Been on foot for three years now, which 0:05:32.250 --> 0:05:33.960 is nice to be coming to the end of it. 0:05:34.470 --> 0:05:35.850 So there's a few things there that I want to 0:05:35.850 --> 0:05:39.960 circle back to. The seepage paddocks on your river blocks here. 0:05:40.350 --> 0:05:42.539 You mentioned when I was talking to you last week 0:05:42.540 --> 0:05:45.660 that they've actually been outperforming your irrigated blocks. 0:05:45.779 --> 0:05:49.020 They have been, which is disappointing considering what water pumping 0:05:49.470 --> 0:05:51.870 costs and what water costs are at the moment. But yeah, 0:05:51.900 --> 0:05:55.110 the yields, we've been running at pretty decent in the 0:05:55.110 --> 0:05:59.039 extensive Excel spreadsheet across all the paddocks here, which is 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:00.960 something dad used to do a long time ago. But 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.990 we've just re- engaged in doing and yeah, the yields 0:06:03.990 --> 0:06:06.779 and I guess the profitability off the seepage floods has 0:06:06.779 --> 0:06:09.990 been well above what we're doing on the irrigation country, 0:06:09.990 --> 0:06:12.180 which is good in one way, but it makes a good 0:06:12.180 --> 0:06:14.400 case for country along the Lachlan River, that's for sure. 0:06:14.580 --> 0:06:18.060 Yeah. So how did you identify that those paddocks were 0:06:18.060 --> 0:06:19.589 going to be seepage or is it sort of a 0:06:19.589 --> 0:06:20.580 happy mistake? 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.910 Well, I think that dad being in this area for 0:06:23.910 --> 0:06:26.790 such a long time, would've been driving past this area 0:06:26.790 --> 0:06:29.640 for many, many years and thousands of thousands of time 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.000 each year, and he's always been a big lucerne hay 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.540 producer and land producer as well. So he always identified 0:06:36.540 --> 0:06:40.110 an opportunity where there are self- watering seepage flats, just 0:06:40.110 --> 0:06:42.630 making sure that you're using that land for the right 0:06:42.630 --> 0:06:48.089 purposes and obviously through trial and being here for 12 or so years 0:06:48.180 --> 0:06:51.120 now he's been able to demonstrate that this lucerne does 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.450 grow significantly well, obviously being able to tap into that 0:06:54.510 --> 0:06:58.979 water aquifer underneath it and obviously it's yielded good hay 0:06:58.980 --> 0:07:00.630 cuts for us over that period. 0:07:00.870 --> 0:07:02.849 The other thing you'd mentioned was that you're trying to 0:07:02.850 --> 0:07:06.060 cut down your blocks on the dry land property, cut 0:07:06.060 --> 0:07:08.520 down your paddock size. What's your optimal paddock size that 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:09.300 you're going for there? 0:07:09.390 --> 0:07:12.840 We're sort of looking at 20 to 30 hectare as opposed to 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.710 60 hectare paddocks, which is probably better for us in 0:07:16.710 --> 0:07:21.330 terms of our breeding mobs. Obviously being part breeders, part traders, 0:07:21.330 --> 0:07:24.450 we're buying in a lot of lambs each year, which 0:07:24.450 --> 0:07:29.310 makes induction and drenching programs really important, especially when you've 0:07:29.310 --> 0:07:34.140 got small paddock sizes. Also being able to rotate our 0:07:34.140 --> 0:07:38.730 grazing and evenly graze paddocks as opposed to I guess 0:07:38.940 --> 0:07:42.390 overgrazing one area and under- grazing another, as well as 0:07:42.390 --> 0:07:46.620 being able to run our breeding ewes in multiples and singles and 0:07:46.620 --> 0:07:48.660 different mob sizes like that. So it just gives us a 0:07:48.660 --> 0:07:51.900 bit more flexibility. And then also mob size as well, 0:07:51.900 --> 0:07:56.190 so 4 to 500 head mobs as opposed to 800 0:07:56.190 --> 0:07:57.270 head or bigger. 0:07:57.750 --> 0:08:02.400 And you also talked about pastures, which I love getting into. 0:08:02.610 --> 0:08:04.770 What's your sort of general mix on your river blocks 0:08:04.770 --> 0:08:06.150 and on the dry land? 0:08:06.210 --> 0:08:08.610 So on the river blocks we've been running a mixed 0:08:08.610 --> 0:08:12.150 pasture species, which fortunately after losing a lot of the 0:08:12.150 --> 0:08:14.940 good stuff after the flood, we've been able to reestablish 0:08:14.940 --> 0:08:18.060 again with a pretty reasonable last 12 months. So we 0:08:18.060 --> 0:08:21.180 generally try and get feed all year round, which includes 0:08:21.180 --> 0:08:25.290 having a lucerne, so we've got L70 lucerne, Cavalier Medic, 0:08:25.350 --> 0:08:28.230 origin fescue, and then a couple of clovers in there 0:08:28.230 --> 0:08:32.280 as well. So dalsa , arrowleaf and balansa clover. And then on 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.920 our dryland block, which has got a little bit of 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.589 gilgai country on it, we've just got lucerne and a couple of 0:08:37.590 --> 0:08:40.020 clovers and obviously the clovers do well in the wet 0:08:40.020 --> 0:08:43.170 areas where the lucerne doesn't make it and that sort 0:08:43.170 --> 0:08:45.030 of gives us a bigger feed window than what we 0:08:45.030 --> 0:08:48.000 would have just with straight lucerne, especially in those wet 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:49.080 areas and wetter years. 0:08:49.410 --> 0:08:52.559 So why no perennial grass on the dryland block? Why 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.270 just the lucerne and clover? 0:08:54.420 --> 0:08:57.510 There's still plenty of perennial grasses over there and we probably 0:08:57.510 --> 0:09:00.570 have some weaker pasture paddocks over there that are maybe 0:09:00.570 --> 0:09:02.429 4 or 5 years old now that are coming to 0:09:02.429 --> 0:09:04.709 the end of their tether, which we might look to 0:09:04.710 --> 0:09:06.990 rotate out and put a dual purpose weed or something in 0:09:07.530 --> 0:09:09.630 in the next 12 months. But we sort of like 0:09:09.630 --> 0:09:12.001 to have a little bit of a balance between straight lucerne 0:09:12.001 --> 0:09:14.520 and some paddocks with lucerne and clover and then 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.209 some paddocks with some lucerne clover and grasses and then 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.950 obviously some more paddocks for locking ewes up before joining whatnot. 0:09:23.190 --> 0:09:26.040 Some unimproved paddocks with some native grasses- 0:09:26.220 --> 0:09:28.350 Sort of hedging our bets each way I'd say. 0:09:28.500 --> 0:09:30.840 Cool. So I also wanted to talk about your lamb 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.439 trading enterprise as well as your breeding enterprise. So can 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:35.790 you talk me through those a little bit? 0:09:35.970 --> 0:09:38.970 So might start on the breeding ewes first. It's probably 0:09:38.970 --> 0:09:40.740 something that I've had a bit more to do with 0:09:40.770 --> 0:09:43.500 as I only came back four years ago. We got 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.070 probably more involved in the breeding side just because of 0:09:47.070 --> 0:09:50.429 what the profit margin were in the trade lambs at 0:09:50.429 --> 0:09:52.740 the period when I was coming back. So we got 0:09:52.740 --> 0:09:55.770 onto this composite breed of ewe, which is a meat 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:01.200 plus breed bred by Tony Rutter. Basically we've been building 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.900 up our numbers and we're now sitting at about 1, 000 0:10:03.900 --> 0:10:08.280 breeding ewes and basically that the reasoning behind going after 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.670 that breed was the dressing percentage or the meat yields. 0:10:11.730 --> 0:10:18.900 So I think MLA's average dressing percentage is about 47% and these 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.500 meat plus lambs sort of aiming for that 50 to 52%, 0:10:22.890 --> 0:10:25.829 which obviously probably goes a little bit unnoticed in the 0:10:25.830 --> 0:10:29.280 sale yards, but selling over the hook. And we send 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.380 quite a few to breakout river Meats over at Cowra, 0:10:31.380 --> 0:10:34.829 which they love them. So I think Tony Rutter, he's 0:10:34.830 --> 0:10:38.370 had a few different career ventures, one being a meat buyer, had 0:10:38.370 --> 0:10:42.179 a big feed lot, obviously MLA commentator and obviously a 0:10:42.179 --> 0:10:46.140 breeder of the meat plus sheep. So they've been very 0:10:46.140 --> 0:10:50.190 good for us. We've found their fertility's been great, we've found they're very sound, 0:10:50.250 --> 0:10:52.620 they've handled a couple of very wet years. We've found 0:10:52.620 --> 0:10:55.080 their good mothers and their temperament is good, which is 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.020 important for us handling them in the yards and that sort of thing. 0:10:58.500 --> 0:11:03.150 So we're sort of getting anywhere between 1,200 to 1, 400 lambs out 0:11:03.150 --> 0:11:06.449 of those each year, which is good. And then in 0:11:06.450 --> 0:11:08.670 terms of trading, we've probably been taken out of the 0:11:08.670 --> 0:11:12.120 trading space for the last two years with the floods 0:11:12.150 --> 0:11:15.450 here in Forbes, but we're just looking back into trying 0:11:15.570 --> 0:11:20.429 to get some repeat buying opportunities now that we've invested 0:11:20.429 --> 0:11:23.280 a little bit more into ag tech and we've got 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.640 ourselves a handler. So being able to measure what weight 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.700 gains we're getting from said producer might give us the 0:11:29.700 --> 0:11:34.380 opportunity in the future to go and make repeat purchases of those 0:11:34.380 --> 0:11:36.270 guys year round and in the future. 0:11:36.900 --> 0:11:41.309 Yeah, cool. So diving into your trade enterprise a bit more, 0:11:41.940 --> 0:11:44.280 can you tell me what are your goals when trading lambs? 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:45.000 What are you after? 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:50.699 I would say good quality lambs that require as little 0:11:50.940 --> 0:11:55.319 work as possible. We're pretty diligent on our induction trenching 0:11:55.380 --> 0:11:59.580 vaccination programs. So we've bought about nearly 2, 000 lambs 0:11:59.580 --> 0:12:03.179 in the last 10 days, obviously following this wet spell 0:12:03.179 --> 0:12:05.700 here in Forbes where we've got 200 mils in a week 0:12:05.700 --> 0:12:06.089 or so. 0:12:06.270 --> 0:12:08.699 In late December, 2024. 0:12:08.700 --> 0:12:12.870 Which is a massive rainfall event. So we want obviously 0:12:12.870 --> 0:12:15.390 as little outgoings as possible and to have them on 0:12:15.390 --> 0:12:20.970 farm for as least as possible. So obviously we're guided by 0:12:20.970 --> 0:12:23.460 our agents a lot there and they know what we sort 0:12:23.460 --> 0:12:26.429 of expect and what we want, but obviously weight gains 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.100 are important. We haven't been able to measure that to 0:12:29.100 --> 0:12:32.699 date as much as we would've liked and we've always been ... 0:12:33.179 --> 0:12:35.580 Dad and I share the same view that you can't manage 0:12:35.580 --> 0:12:37.679 what you can't measure and hopefully now that we can 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.160 measure it, we can make better purchasing decisions. But at the 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.500 end of the day, second cross lambs are probably our 0:12:43.770 --> 0:12:46.890 sweet spot and with a bit of mixed pasture and 0:12:46.890 --> 0:12:51.240 some high performance lucerne paddocks, generally just looking after weight 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.521 gains and that sort of thing is important to us. 0:12:53.521 --> 0:12:56.850 So just buying them in at 30 odd kilos and selling 0:12:56.850 --> 0:12:57.630 at 50? 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.650 Yep, that's the rough plan. The stuff we've been buying 0:13:01.650 --> 0:13:05.250 at the moment, sort of that 32 to 34 kilos, and we 0:13:05.250 --> 0:13:08.490 want to sell at 42 to 50 kilos depending on 0:13:08.580 --> 0:13:10.260 where they're selling and where they're going to. 0:13:11.250 --> 0:13:14.400 Yeah. You mentioned that you're finishing these lambs on lucerne 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.480 a fair bit. That must conflict with your lucerne operation. 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.510 Can you sort of talk me through the trigger points 0:13:21.510 --> 0:13:24.780 that you decide, right, we're locking this paddock up for 0:13:24.780 --> 0:13:28.590 hay or this is going to be used for lamb production? 0:13:28.650 --> 0:13:32.520 So all the river country here, Walla Wallah and surround, 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.339 we've got about 65 hectares that's locked up at the 0:13:35.340 --> 0:13:39.660 moment purely for hay. Obviously with that 200 mils, the 0:13:39.660 --> 0:13:44.670 demand over the December, January period for hay's pretty much nonexistent. 0:13:44.670 --> 0:13:49.260 So there's seasonal triggers for us as well as obviously 0:13:49.290 --> 0:13:52.920 if there's a buying opportunity where the trade will net 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.290 us a better result than what the hay will, we'll 0:13:55.290 --> 0:13:58.050 go after that opportunity. But it's a really ... You play 0:13:58.050 --> 0:14:01.350 it on the run and if you've got consistent buying 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.270 from the hay and you can move the hay, that's 0:14:03.270 --> 0:14:06.090 all good and well, but what I've learned this season is, and 0:14:06.090 --> 0:14:09.120 I said to dad, I said, " There's one thing about hay. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.079 Whilst it might make really good money for you if 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.540 you can sell it, if you're not selling it it's 0:14:15.540 --> 0:14:17.070 not like sheep where you can just take them into 0:14:17.070 --> 0:14:18.540 the yards and get rid of it like it's on 0:14:18.540 --> 0:14:20.760 your farm and in the shed." And you might not 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.630 sell any hay for two or three months, which can disrupt cash flow 0:14:24.690 --> 0:14:27.750 and cause additional challenges. So if we get to a 0:14:27.750 --> 0:14:30.750 stage where all our sheds are full and no one's 0:14:30.750 --> 0:14:34.200 buying hay, we might forgo the fifth cut this year 0:14:34.260 --> 0:14:36.270 and say, " Look, we're going to go and put lambs 0:14:36.390 --> 0:14:39.900 on those paddocks," or maybe there's some paddocks, we go say, " 0:14:39.900 --> 0:14:43.800 Well look, it's been a challenging cutting season and the 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.140 fourth cut in a few paddocks we might not go for." 0:14:46.140 --> 0:14:49.620 So we generally aim for five cuts per year. Obviously 0:14:49.620 --> 0:14:52.710 this 200 mils came right when we wanted to go 0:14:52.740 --> 0:14:55.109 for our second cut, which has meant second cut's been 0:14:55.110 --> 0:14:57.090 a little bit overgrown, but we still think it's going 0:14:57.090 --> 0:14:59.040 to make good hay and it's been hot and windy 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.070 and good hay making weather. So hopefully we'll get stuck 0:15:02.070 --> 0:15:04.110 in and bale quite a bit of it tonight. 0:15:04.500 --> 0:15:08.100 So talk to me about hay making. What's your process? 0:15:08.130 --> 0:15:11.520 Well, my goal for 2025 is to learn more about hay. 0:15:11.580 --> 0:15:16.500 We're very fortunate that most of our tractor and contracting 0:15:16.500 --> 0:15:20.250 work is done by contractors. We've got very minimal gear. 0:15:20.850 --> 0:15:23.520 So we're very fortunate in the fact that our contractors 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.180 are all very hardworking people with lots of experience and 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.880 I'm very good at breaking things as dad would tell 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.490 you from this week, I've wrecked about two things. So 0:15:32.850 --> 0:15:35.400 we try and stay out of the machines if we can, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.960 but in terms of making hay, I'd like to learn 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.970 a lot more about it. And obviously when you're not 0:15:41.970 --> 0:15:44.070 in the machine and you're not on the baler at 0:15:44.070 --> 0:15:46.770 three o'clock in the morning, it's hard to learn from 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.950 the house when they're all out there working. But we 0:15:49.950 --> 0:15:52.710 try and pick it all up and get involved as 0:15:52.710 --> 0:15:53.610 much as we can. 0:15:53.790 --> 0:15:57.510 No, that's a great segue into Local Land Services. Probably 0:15:57.510 --> 0:16:00.480 going to be running some top fodder, silage and hay 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.280 making courses in late February. 0:16:02.370 --> 0:16:03.359 I'll be there for sure. 0:16:04.230 --> 0:16:07.740 So grazing your lambs on some of your hay country 0:16:07.830 --> 0:16:11.010 during winter and when it's not locked up, is there 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.760 anything to consider there with lambs grazing on the lucerne 0:16:15.210 --> 0:16:15.750 for your hay? 0:16:16.020 --> 0:16:19.800 Not particularly. We're very diligent. We supply a lot of 0:16:19.830 --> 0:16:24.270 hay to a big racehorse stud up in the Hunter 0:16:24.270 --> 0:16:30.090 region and with such high value animals and product users, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.060 we've got to be very diligent with our foreign material 0:16:33.060 --> 0:16:37.560 in paddocks. So we're very much on top of, we 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.760 control making sure that there's no foreign material. If an 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.480 animal dies, which sometimes that happens where you've got livestock, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.270 you've got dead stock. So making sure that we're on top 0:16:48.270 --> 0:16:52.890 of picking up carcasses, bones, any foreign material, sticks, rocks, 0:16:53.310 --> 0:16:56.850 we're always out there picking up things that a lot 0:16:56.850 --> 0:16:59.820 of people probably wouldn't. But that all makes for clean paddocks. 0:16:59.850 --> 0:17:03.330 And clean paddocks means happy contractors and happy contractors generally 0:17:03.330 --> 0:17:08.010 means good hay. So we're very diligent on our paddock biosecurity, 0:17:08.070 --> 0:17:11.040 very diligent in when we bring stock onto the farm 0:17:11.220 --> 0:17:13.470 and that sort of thing with our induction programs. And 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.169 probably one of the game changes for us in the 0:17:16.170 --> 0:17:19.950 last probably three or four years has been purchasing a slasher. 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.619 So we had a little one before that, but we've just 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.580 got a 15. 5 foot batwing slasher, which we use to 0:17:26.580 --> 0:17:30.300 top our pastures following grazing events. And it's just like 0:17:30.300 --> 0:17:32.760 when you mow the lawn, it just goes berserk after that. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.430 So the slash has really replace the need for cattle 0:17:35.430 --> 0:17:37.619 for us, especially on a bit more of this fragile 0:17:37.619 --> 0:17:40.680 country where you've got irrigation channels, levee banks and that 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.629 sort of thing. Cattle can make a bit of a 0:17:42.630 --> 0:17:45.270 mess when it's wet. So that's why we like to stick 0:17:45.270 --> 0:17:47.670 to sheep and we can get most places without slashes. 0:17:47.670 --> 0:17:52.080 So just pasture topping, even mechanical management of weeds. When 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.359 I took my place over, it had quite a few 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.390 scotch thistles and we're slowly getting on top of those. 0:17:57.390 --> 0:18:01.680 Obviously chemical control is one thing, but mechanical controls been 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.040 another string in the bow for us, which we've found, yeah, 0:18:05.100 --> 0:18:06.419 yield very good results. 0:18:06.780 --> 0:18:11.340 Yeah, good. So just on that, with purchasing of machinery, 0:18:11.550 --> 0:18:14.340 you're obviously consistently making hay year in, year out. Can 0:18:14.340 --> 0:18:17.700 you talk me through the decision for employing contractors rather 0:18:17.700 --> 0:18:18.840 than getting your own machinery? 0:18:19.020 --> 0:18:21.690 Well, when I touched on the fact that I wreck 0:18:21.690 --> 0:18:27.570 everything I'm in, I meant that. Dad's always been probably 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.840 more in favor of someone else owning the machine. Anything 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.900 with steel wheels is not for him. We find that 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.619 with the contracting space, it's very hard to get people 0:18:37.619 --> 0:18:40.530 to come in and work in small paddocks. Obviously a 0:18:40.530 --> 0:18:42.480 lot of the contractors have had to get big or 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.580 get out. So to get someone to come in and 0:18:44.580 --> 0:18:48.750 spray three hectares of oats or a seven hectare paddock with a 0:18:48.750 --> 0:18:50.400 heap of trees in it, they just go, " It's not 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:54.030 even worth the effort of us decontaminating the tank." So 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.150 that sort of probably pushed us into a position where 0:18:57.150 --> 0:18:58.770 we've had to buy a bit of our own gear. 0:18:58.830 --> 0:19:02.820 So in the last 12 months we've bought a 15- meter 3- 0:19:02.820 --> 0:19:07.320 point linkage croplands sprayer, which also meant that we had 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.350 to go ahead with GPS for efficiency's sake. We didn't 0:19:10.350 --> 0:19:13.290 have to, but we thought that if we want to go down 0:19:13.290 --> 0:19:16.500 the line of getting into chemical application ourselves, we should 0:19:16.500 --> 0:19:19.590 be doing that. That's probably given us the opportunity to 0:19:19.590 --> 0:19:25.109 make better in production year decisions and be more efficient 0:19:25.109 --> 0:19:27.630 because we can get on it and do it when it needs to happen and not 0:19:27.630 --> 0:19:31.680 when the contractor can get here. But in terms of machinery, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.710 all we've really got is attractor, slasher and a boom spray, 0:19:34.710 --> 0:19:38.130 a couple of front- end loader attachments and otherwise we're 0:19:38.130 --> 0:19:41.520 run pretty lean on that space. We find that obviously 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.480 as technology's evolving and products are getting better that a 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.840 contractor with a modern machine with better tech in it 0:19:48.900 --> 0:19:51.390 is probably better than us buying something that we'd want 0:19:51.390 --> 0:19:53.910 to keep for 15 or 20 years to get a return on 0:19:53.910 --> 0:19:58.050 investment on as opposed to having that outlay on equipment 0:19:58.050 --> 0:19:58.980 finance and whatnot. 0:19:59.190 --> 0:20:02.310 That's a very well- thought- out answer, but I still 0:20:02.310 --> 0:20:04.350 keep coming back to you are just a crap tractor 0:20:04.350 --> 0:20:04.890 driver mate. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.680 I think that's exactly right and that's probably why dad 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.770 hasn't taken on any of my business cases about getting any 0:20:11.010 --> 0:20:14.790 other gear. In saying that though, we have just invested 0:20:14.790 --> 0:20:17.700 in a fair bit of ag tech, obviously GPS being 0:20:17.700 --> 0:20:20.280 one of those, which has been fantastic and we've used it 0:20:20.460 --> 0:20:22.379 for a lot more things than what we thought we 0:20:22.380 --> 0:20:25.320 would use it when we're slashing, used it ripping all 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.440 the tree lines for the LLS project over at Westwood, 0:20:28.770 --> 0:20:31.740 and there's just so many things we've used that for 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.159 as well as the sheep handling. The sheep handle that 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.500 we've just bought as well, that was only purchased as a 0:20:37.500 --> 0:20:41.070 part of a rebate program, which was offered through the RAA. 0:20:41.100 --> 0:20:44.459 So that's all been something that we've been investing heavily 0:20:44.460 --> 0:20:46.890 in the last 12 months or 24 months. 0:20:46.950 --> 0:20:49.590 So your auto steer guidance on your tractor, was that 0:20:49.590 --> 0:20:52.050 just a retrofit or you've gone out and bought a 0:20:52.050 --> 0:20:52.741 new tractor or what's- 0:20:52.741 --> 0:20:56.220 No, no, we just went and retrofitted to the existing loader, 0:20:56.250 --> 0:20:59.550 which was pretty straightforward. Obviously came at a cost. But yeah, 0:20:59.550 --> 0:21:01.409 when we started thinking, well look, we're going to be 0:21:01.410 --> 0:21:04.800 spraying high value crops as in for us, high value 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:09.210 lucerne and pasture paddocks right next door, you've got to be pretty careful, 0:21:09.210 --> 0:21:12.600 and over- spraying and under- spraying are big no nos 0:21:12.690 --> 0:21:16.260 in paddocks. So we just thought, oh well if we're going 0:21:16.260 --> 0:21:17.730 to go and get this boom sprayer , we'll go into 0:21:17.730 --> 0:21:18.450 the GPS. 0:21:19.140 --> 0:21:21.840 Yep. Just before we move onto the last topic I just thought, 0:21:22.140 --> 0:21:24.420 and I probably should have started with this, but just 0:21:24.420 --> 0:21:28.470 your fertilizer and soil sort of strategy for your lucerne? 0:21:28.619 --> 0:21:32.399