WEBVTT - The future of farming: How the scientific approach is building better breeding programs 0:00:06.300 --> 0:00:09.450 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.450 --> 0:00:12.420 a good yarn about ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.420 --> 0:00:15.150 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.150 --> 0:00:17.730 in New South Wales who are out there battling the 0:00:17.730 --> 0:00:22.079 elements, making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.329 get a laugh out of some of their stories and 0:00:24.329 --> 0:00:27.150 also pick up some know- how along the way. I'm 0:00:27.150 --> 0:00:35.790 your host, Neroli Brennan. Today we're continuing our conversation with 0:00:35.790 --> 0:00:38.790 Jon Wright from Coota Park Blue- E. In our last 0:00:38.790 --> 0:00:43.200 episode, Jon shared his journey from cattle research to creating 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.140 his own line of Blue- E cattle on his property 0:00:46.170 --> 0:00:50.580 Coota Park at Woodstock. Jon explained how refining genetics and 0:00:50.580 --> 0:00:54.900 collecting individual animal data has allowed him to develop the 0:00:54.900 --> 0:00:58.620 most feed- efficient herd in the world. But in today's 0:00:58.620 --> 0:01:02.640 episode, Jon delves into the world of EBVs and how 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:07.230 important this information is for refining our beef production system. 0:01:07.709 --> 0:01:11.250 He also shares with us how he's collaborating with researchers 0:01:11.490 --> 0:01:15.150 at Sydney Uni and ag tech developers to help improve 0:01:15.150 --> 0:01:19.020 our understanding of how technology can be used for adopting 0:01:19.020 --> 0:01:22.950 solutions that lower on- farm emissions, and allow us to 0:01:22.950 --> 0:01:27.600 meet customer expectations. So join us as Local Land Services 0:01:27.780 --> 0:01:31.980 mixed farming officer, Claudia Hinrichsen, continues her chat with Jon 0:01:32.370 --> 0:01:33.900 at home on Coota Park. 0:01:37.770 --> 0:01:41.459 So just back to the feed efficiency testing, how do 0:01:41.459 --> 0:01:44.490 you get problems with shy feeders? How do you manage that? 0:01:44.670 --> 0:01:46.380 It's all in the system. It's all in the way 0:01:46.380 --> 0:01:50.040 you manage the trials and the trial's design. And the 0:01:50.070 --> 0:01:52.860 sort of standards that we've set up were all to 0:01:53.190 --> 0:01:55.950 get as many animals onto feeds, they have a 21- 0:01:55.950 --> 0:01:59.700 day adjustment period, that's to get the animal used to 0:01:59.700 --> 0:02:03.240 the diet and also get to using the facility. And 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.570 so you need that 21 days to ensure that you've 0:02:06.570 --> 0:02:09.960 got the largest percentage of animals that you've presented to 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.410 the trial in the first place, starting off on day one, 0:02:13.500 --> 0:02:16.590 fully adapted to the feed and using the feeders. It's 0:02:16.590 --> 0:02:21.270 remarkably easy. As we've gone along, I was very protective 0:02:21.270 --> 0:02:24.270 of that and did everything I possibly could to ensure that we 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.120 got the maximum number on there in the new feeding 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.530 systems and things that just it's really quite simple. So 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.169 the diet that we use is not a high energy 0:02:34.169 --> 0:02:37.710 diet, so it's not a risky diet to bring cattle 0:02:37.710 --> 0:02:41.669 onto. It's a high protein, moderate energy diet, which is 0:02:41.669 --> 0:02:45.840 suitable for growing young bulls. So yeah, the shy feeder 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.800 thing isn't a problem in the sense of adjusting and then 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.410 getting them on. The system has a natural thing in 0:02:52.410 --> 0:02:54.870 there; if a bull has reduced intakes for three or 0:02:54.870 --> 0:02:58.260 four days, he just falls out of the trial. He 0:02:58.260 --> 0:03:01.410 can stay in the pen there and keep eating. Certainly 0:03:01.410 --> 0:03:03.389 we would take him out if he was not well, 0:03:03.930 --> 0:03:06.180 but if he just has three days where his intakes 0:03:06.180 --> 0:03:07.770 go down a bit, he's got a bit of a 0:03:07.770 --> 0:03:10.290 flu or a fever or something like that and then comes back 0:03:10.290 --> 0:03:14.040 on, system doesn't care. He's just eliminated from the trial 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.980 and you don't get data on those bulls, which is 0:03:17.100 --> 0:03:19.350 a good check to have in the system and that's 0:03:19.350 --> 0:03:21.930 the design. You don't get to say, " I'd like that 0:03:21.930 --> 0:03:24.090 bull to go in, please." They go, " No, these are 0:03:24.090 --> 0:03:25.200 the rules," which is good. 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.870 So you have touched on this a little bit, but 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.410 what is, I guess, the evolution of your genetic selection? 0:03:31.410 --> 0:03:35.279 You mentioned earlier offline that you've just added some Santa 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.780 genetics. Can you just describe how you started and the genetics? 0:03:39.810 --> 0:03:44.700 Yeah, so it was just a Shorthorn Angus cross. 27 years ago 0:03:44.730 --> 0:03:47.370 they were very different breeds. The Angus was what you 0:03:47.370 --> 0:03:52.080 would call a smaller early- maturing breed. The Shorthorns were 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.580 a larger later- maturing breed at different stages of their 0:03:56.580 --> 0:03:59.670 development as breeds. To me, it seemed to be a 0:03:59.670 --> 0:04:04.410 logical mix. Also, at that stage, all the research had 0:04:04.410 --> 0:04:07.320 shown the value of marbling and how important that was. 0:04:07.380 --> 0:04:10.410 And so they were the two best marbling breeds at the time. 0:04:10.650 --> 0:04:15.150 They had advantages in being combined, obvious to put in 0:04:15.150 --> 0:04:18.360 a European breed at the beginning. At that particular stage, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.710 27 years ago, the population of the Europeans in Australia 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.700 was relatively small. Some of them had some big dramas 0:04:26.790 --> 0:04:32.729 as far as different things, temperament or structure, fertility, carving, 0:04:32.820 --> 0:04:36.180 things like that. So it just didn't seem logical to bring 0:04:36.180 --> 0:04:39.570 those in. We were trying to be based on getting 0:04:39.570 --> 0:04:42.839 animals from large performance recording herds, that had a history 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.770 of performance recording, again, not so great in those smaller 0:04:46.770 --> 0:04:51.900 breeds. So that's where we stuck, wherever it was. 18 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.169 years later, as far as I could see, that had 0:04:55.170 --> 0:04:58.589 changed dramatically. So the American Simmental Association had made a 0:04:58.589 --> 0:05:02.250 big shift in the way... They were very bold and 0:05:02.250 --> 0:05:07.290 very responsible as an organization in the direction that they 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.740 took the breed. As a society, they looked at themselves 0:05:10.740 --> 0:05:13.140 and said, " What are our weaknesses and what are our 0:05:13.140 --> 0:05:16.170 strengths?" Looked at those and said, " We've got to work 0:05:16.170 --> 0:05:18.990 really hard at fixing these things or we won't be 0:05:18.990 --> 0:05:22.500 relevant," or they were already becoming irrelevant, I guess. So 0:05:22.500 --> 0:05:24.930 it was a really bold thing they did. At the same 0:05:24.930 --> 0:05:27.570 time, a lot of the breeders thought... saw the power of the 0:05:27.570 --> 0:05:32.130 black. And so in America as in Australia, it's about 0:05:32.130 --> 0:05:38.339 a black skin gets them into particular brands. So weirdly, 0:05:38.339 --> 0:05:42.539 but anyway, the Simmentals predominantly changed themselves from being a 0:05:42.540 --> 0:05:46.110 red and white breed to a black breed. Whether it 0:05:46.110 --> 0:05:50.130 was their intention or not, 20 years later, now that 0:05:50.130 --> 0:05:55.170 they've changed themselves to black by incorporating Angus and creating 0:05:55.170 --> 0:05:59.940 a multi- trait, multi- breed type animal, the animal that they have 0:05:59.940 --> 0:06:03.630 now is far superior to the original product. Now it 0:06:03.630 --> 0:06:08.969 might be controversial to say, the product that has ended 0:06:08.970 --> 0:06:12.990 up from that crossing, is it more superior to both 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.820 Angus and Simmental, the original breeds? I'd be bold enough 0:06:17.820 --> 0:06:21.300 to say I think it definitely is. But it's not 0:06:21.300 --> 0:06:23.400 the point, it's just that they're pretty good multi- trait 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.810 animals and useful to use in a breeding index to 0:06:27.870 --> 0:06:31.890 make more profitable commercial cattle. So we started to look 0:06:31.890 --> 0:06:34.110 at those and going, " I'm being a bit hypocritical, I'm 0:06:34.110 --> 0:06:37.560 being like a breed society. No, I'm only Angus and Shorthorn cross, 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.349 I'm only Blue- E. We won't bring anything else in." 0:06:40.350 --> 0:06:42.839 And so I had to sort of walk the walk 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.529 a little bit and act in a way that we 0:06:46.529 --> 0:06:50.160 had talked in for a very long time. So it 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.409 was about looking at those genetics, saying there's good ones 0:06:52.410 --> 0:06:55.680 there. They'd attended to the problems that I was always 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.730 fearful about with that breed, and there was lots of 0:06:59.730 --> 0:07:03.210 them out there, with really good performance recording information on 0:07:03.210 --> 0:07:05.880 them, to enable us to be making the right decisions. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.640 So then we started bringing some of those in. More 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.180 recently, not on a general way for the whole Blue- 0:07:12.180 --> 0:07:14.520 E program, but we have been asked by a corporate 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.900 to breed a Blue- E cross animal with some Indicus 0:07:18.900 --> 0:07:23.160 content, so the bulls can go further north. So we're 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.830 doing that for that client. We have no intentions of 0:07:25.830 --> 0:07:30.270 marketing those bulls at this particular stage outside that, unless 0:07:30.270 --> 0:07:34.170 there's demand. But it's interesting. That's really another whole discussion 0:07:34.170 --> 0:07:37.050 to go into all of that side of things. How 0:07:37.050 --> 0:07:42.180 we identify those animals genetically and do an analysis is 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.150 really interesting and presenting us with some challenges and we're 0:07:45.150 --> 0:07:48.420 up for a challenge. But the cattle look good, they 0:07:48.420 --> 0:07:52.350 look really exciting. Again, it's just breeding an animal for 0:07:52.350 --> 0:07:55.890 a client at this particular stage, but there's a big 0:07:55.890 --> 0:07:58.410 number of cows up there in the north and there's 0:07:58.410 --> 0:08:01.260 a lot of genetics that is going up there at 0:08:01.260 --> 0:08:05.460 the moment, which is, I don't know, the science always said they were the wrong color to 0:08:05.460 --> 0:08:08.040 be going into those environments. I think they're working really 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.860 hard on that and some of that science may have 0:08:11.340 --> 0:08:15.060 evolved. But the thing that worries me a little bit 0:08:15.060 --> 0:08:19.080 is some quite big mature cow size genetics going into 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:23.610 those climates. It's quite logical that you shouldn't. It surprises 0:08:23.610 --> 0:08:26.070 me that that's what's happening and that's a car crash 0:08:26.130 --> 0:08:28.830 waiting to happen and I hope people can be really, 0:08:28.830 --> 0:08:32.070 really careful in doing that. And it's about seed stock 0:08:32.070 --> 0:08:36.300 producers being responsible for the genetics that they're breeding, not 0:08:36.300 --> 0:08:38.910 being just pleased that a bull's gone and they've sold 0:08:38.910 --> 0:08:41.550 it and they've told a great story, thinking really seriously 0:08:41.550 --> 0:08:45.929 about their own children's future in the seed stock industry 0:08:45.929 --> 0:08:48.030 that they're in and whether they're going to have a 0:08:48.030 --> 0:08:53.070 future in breeding that type of cattle. Because once the 0:08:53.070 --> 0:08:56.700 word gets round, if fertility is starting to be worked 0:08:56.700 --> 0:08:59.729 against, up in that environment they've got enough problems, they don't 0:08:59.730 --> 0:09:03.540 need more problems. So if cows don't survive in that 0:09:03.540 --> 0:09:04.950 environment, they're going to find out. 0:09:05.190 --> 0:09:08.490 Definitely. So when you introduced the Simmies, were there temperament issues? 0:09:08.700 --> 0:09:10.800 Of the European breeds, they're one of the ones that 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.910 had probably a lesser of a worry in it. Look, 0:09:14.910 --> 0:09:17.400 I don't generalize in breeds too much in the sense 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.319 of there's good and bad in everyone, and it's usually 0:09:19.830 --> 0:09:23.010 created by people in the background of those seed stock. 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.910 People blame indexes for things or breeds for things, and 0:09:26.910 --> 0:09:29.400 it's not the breed and it's not the index, it's 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:34.319 the people behind them that breed them. So yeah, there's 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.500 good and bad breeders out there, and always we still 0:09:37.500 --> 0:09:41.040 work on temperament in our cattle very strongly and you'll 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:42.809 always get a little bit of it, and as long 0:09:42.809 --> 0:09:45.059 as you knock it on the head and don't accept 0:09:45.059 --> 0:09:48.630 it into the pool, then you're hopefully heading in the 0:09:48.630 --> 0:09:52.440 right direction. So no, like seriously, there was no dramas 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.100 in that sense. I had probably more dramas coming from 0:09:56.550 --> 0:10:00.120 the existing two breeds than I do from Simmentalers as 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.360 traits coming in, which I was sort of trying to 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.170 fight against or have to be aware of. Not to 0:10:07.230 --> 0:10:10.290 perpetuate those traits as they come through in any major 0:10:10.290 --> 0:10:15.900 way is their mature cow size, their feed efficiency, their 0:10:15.900 --> 0:10:20.340 fertility, those sort of things, longevity, those really important traits 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.329 that are hard, were hard to shift, hard to measure, 0:10:24.630 --> 0:10:28.020 but really, really important. I'm more concerned about those ones 0:10:28.020 --> 0:10:29.760 than I am about any of those other ones. 0:10:30.330 --> 0:10:34.380 So you moved away from the Angus Australia BREEDPLAN EBVs as 0:10:34.380 --> 0:10:37.590 it had some limitations for crossbred genetics. What system do 0:10:37.590 --> 0:10:40.260 you use now and can you explain it a bit? 0:10:40.710 --> 0:10:44.940 We shifted away from the Angus multi- breed register, and 0:10:44.940 --> 0:10:49.050 so when the American Simmental Association and Leachman Cattle Company 0:10:49.050 --> 0:10:53.309 in America, both at similar times, developed these multi- breed 0:10:53.370 --> 0:10:57.120 performance recording systems, it seemed really logical. They didn't care 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.120 what breed you were, you could come on. They would 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.140 take the information and history of those and all, certainly 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.429 the whole pedigree and the pedigree performance information on the 0:11:08.429 --> 0:11:12.420 animals and use that. So we insisted that they take 0:11:12.420 --> 0:11:16.140 the lot of ours as long as we'd been going. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.910 And the only reason that we went predominantly with Leachman 0:11:20.910 --> 0:11:25.320 was because they incorporated feed efficiency into their analysis, whereas 0:11:25.350 --> 0:11:29.460 the American Simmental system's IGS weren't and still aren't doing 0:11:29.460 --> 0:11:32.760 feed efficiency. So as much as I loved the people 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.600 involved with that and the whole process, I couldn't not 0:11:36.690 --> 0:11:40.380 be including feed efficiency in our analysis after putting so 0:11:40.380 --> 0:11:42.330 much work into it. So that's where we ended up 0:11:42.330 --> 0:11:46.920 with Leachman. Leachman is a family business in America that's 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.170 been going for a very, very long time, they're fourth- 0:11:49.170 --> 0:11:51.750 biggest bull seller in America now. They sell three and 0:11:51.750 --> 0:11:55.770 a half, 4, 000 bulls a year, composites, pure Angus, 0:11:55.770 --> 0:11:59.760 pure Red Angus, pure Charolais. The family business doesn't own 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.550 a lot of land, they have cooperators that they work 0:12:02.550 --> 0:12:07.050 with and those cooperators are collecting all the data and putting it. 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.439 And he decided to start up a performance recording system 0:12:10.860 --> 0:12:17.189 in conjunction with universities that did the independent analysis for 0:12:17.190 --> 0:12:20.730 him and that's where we went. To me, it's just 0:12:20.730 --> 0:12:24.059 a performance recording system. They all work relatively well. It's 0:12:24.059 --> 0:12:28.199 just an analysis, so you can argue which one's right 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.540 or wrong and that sort of stuff. I just don't care 0:12:30.540 --> 0:12:34.770 about that. I just want my data analyzed properly. You'll have 0:12:34.770 --> 0:12:41.130 some individual emphases on different traits in indexes and all 0:12:41.130 --> 0:12:44.220 that sort of stuff. Anyway, we went with Leachman and 0:12:44.250 --> 0:12:46.950 he seems to be growing. The data that's coming out 0:12:46.950 --> 0:12:51.179 of it is identifying our animals well. It takes you 0:12:51.179 --> 0:12:52.920 a little bit of time to get the confidence in 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.820 it. We've really got great confidence in the data that's coming 0:12:56.820 --> 0:13:00.929 out of it, and incorporating DNA analysis. Now, the whole 0:13:00.929 --> 0:13:04.620 50K stuff, all our animals are going into, into the 0:13:04.620 --> 0:13:10.290 analysis and the data from the DNA is accepted into 0:13:10.290 --> 0:13:13.110 the analysis that produces the EPDs that we can now 0:13:13.110 --> 0:13:16.709 look at. So that's really exciting and we've just done 0:13:16.740 --> 0:13:19.949 our whole cow herd. So taken DNA from every single 0:13:19.950 --> 0:13:23.190 cow and haven't got the data back from that yet, 0:13:23.190 --> 0:13:26.790 but it's going to be very interesting. And what's interesting 0:13:26.790 --> 0:13:30.030 is, I think it's going to identify our cattle better 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.270 so we can make better decisions to breed better cattle. 0:13:33.510 --> 0:13:36.929 For sure. Hopefully it complements that phenotypic data. So it 0:13:36.929 --> 0:13:39.449 sounds like you finally found the right fit for you. 0:13:39.690 --> 0:13:42.240 Well, it's good. It's good and it's exciting. As I say, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.840 he's made a real focus on the feed efficiency side, 0:13:46.290 --> 0:13:50.160 and was only discussing it with him last week. We 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:55.230 have eight feed intake recorders here, eight bunkers, so we 0:13:55.230 --> 0:13:59.250 can do about 240 bulls a year in our own 0:13:59.250 --> 0:14:06.120 testing facility. He has 300 intake recorders associated with his 0:14:06.150 --> 0:14:10.890 genetics now, so that's pretty amazing. And he's talking that 0:14:10.890 --> 0:14:15.990 they're already starting to develop a EPD for methane and 0:14:15.990 --> 0:14:18.990 recording that sort of stuff. There's a whole world in 0:14:18.990 --> 0:14:22.350 that and another whole discussion about how that all should 0:14:22.350 --> 0:14:25.620 roll, but he's onto it. He may not get a 0:14:25.620 --> 0:14:28.800 lot of support from his new president in that area, 0:14:28.890 --> 0:14:32.910 to be trying to help the beef industry reduce its 0:14:32.940 --> 0:14:36.120 emissions, but certainly something that I'm pretty passionate about. 0:14:36.450 --> 0:14:38.880 Sure. So just honing in on the genetics a little 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.520 bit more, can you explain the trait residual feed intake 0:14:41.850 --> 0:14:42.961 and how heritable is it? 0:14:42.961 --> 0:14:44.430 Oh god, this is hard. 0:14:46.020 --> 0:14:46.440 Sorry. 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.780 Been doing it for 28 years and it hasn't got any easier, 0:14:48.780 --> 0:14:52.290 even longer. No, look, it's really simple. It's just based 0:14:52.290 --> 0:14:56.280 from the point that we all understand really simply and 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:01.140 really easily gross feed efficiency, which is just how much 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:05.370 feed does an animal eat to put on a kilo 0:15:05.370 --> 0:15:09.000 of weight? And so that's gross feed efficiency. So do 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.310 you have a converter that's 4 to 1, or 5 0:15:11.310 --> 0:15:13.320 to 1, or 6 to 1, or 7 to 1? 0:15:13.890 --> 0:15:17.010 When we started that range was there, you were going 0:15:17.010 --> 0:15:20.070 from 5 to 1 to 10 to 1, was the 0:15:20.070 --> 0:15:23.910 average. We've obviously closed that average in. We still go 0:15:23.910 --> 0:15:26.340 back to that trait of gross feed efficiency, it's the 0:15:26.340 --> 0:15:29.220 thing we're trying to shift. What we understood and what 0:15:29.220 --> 0:15:34.620 the researchers understood from previous work in other species, that 0:15:34.620 --> 0:15:37.950 if you just go on that gross feed efficiency figure, your 0:15:37.950 --> 0:15:41.370 animals will just get bigger and bigger and bigger. And 0:15:41.370 --> 0:15:43.770 that's what happened in the poultry industry, happened in the 0:15:43.770 --> 0:15:46.830 pork industry, where you had these animals were so big 0:15:46.830 --> 0:15:49.680 that their hearts couldn't even pump the blood around their 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:54.270 bodies or their immune systems just couldn't cope with the 0:15:54.270 --> 0:15:58.500 mass and the volume. So the wisdom of all of 0:15:58.500 --> 0:16:00.960 those other industries and the researchers at the time, that 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.770 we need to take growth out of the equation or 0:16:04.980 --> 0:16:09.630 out of that genetic link and make it independent. And 0:16:09.630 --> 0:16:13.200 so not taking growth out of the story, but just 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.580 if you select for feed efficiency, you're not necessarily selecting 0:16:17.580 --> 0:16:22.200 for growth. Go to your growth EPDs or EBVs and 0:16:22.740 --> 0:16:26.160 select where you want to, but it won't be directly 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.790 linked. So residual feed intake was just a simple method 0:16:29.790 --> 0:16:32.700 that was developed to say, let's just look at each 0:16:32.700 --> 0:16:36.270 individual animal and say how efficient are they for an 0:16:36.270 --> 0:16:40.560 animal of that particular size growing at that particular rate? 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.460 So it just takes those out, it adjusts for those. And 0:16:44.460 --> 0:16:47.670 so if it's a smaller animal, not growing as fast but 0:16:47.670 --> 0:16:51.960 not eating as much, it can still rank just as 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.050 well as a fast- growing animal that's not eating much 0:16:55.170 --> 0:16:58.410 relative to its size and its growth rate. So you 0:16:58.410 --> 0:17:01.920 can have those two animals ranking first and second in 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.129 your test. You then just go to your growth traits 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.040 and say, " Oh, that animal is not what I'd like 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.859 to breed from. Whereas this animal may be more to 0:17:10.859 --> 0:17:13.170 it." I've thought about it a lot, talked a lot 0:17:13.170 --> 0:17:15.419 over a long period of time, and it's just the 0:17:15.420 --> 0:17:20.820 responsible way to shift feed efficiency in a genetic population 0:17:20.820 --> 0:17:23.340 over the time, is the best way for doing. 0:17:23.609 --> 0:17:26.369 Makes sense. So we might move on to some of 0:17:26.369 --> 0:17:28.710 the other cool stuff that you have done here or 0:17:28.710 --> 0:17:30.690 are doing here. Can you tell us a bit about 0:17:30.690 --> 0:17:35.130 your work with the legend Luciano Gonzales from Sydney Uni 0:17:35.490 --> 0:17:37.380 and also Optiweigh in the methane space? 0:17:37.890 --> 0:17:40.260 Yeah, so just to go back a little bit in 0:17:40.260 --> 0:17:44.970 the sense of me sitting in my office, Googling on 0:17:44.970 --> 0:17:49.200 the computer, searching through things and seeing one, that figure 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.400 that said the beef industry's responsible for as much emissions 0:17:53.730 --> 0:17:56.670 as the whole transport industry. Now whether that's true and 0:17:56.850 --> 0:17:59.190 whether the calculations are right and blah, blah, blah, it doesn't 0:17:59.190 --> 0:18:03.060 matter. I read that and went, " Holy mackerel, what are you 0:18:03.060 --> 0:18:05.910 talking about there?" And then sort of just trying to 0:18:05.910 --> 0:18:08.280 look more through into that space and go, " Why is 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:13.710 that?" And it's that part about methane, which is no 0:18:13.710 --> 0:18:17.129 one's fault, no one's did anything wrong, but the science 0:18:17.130 --> 0:18:21.840 says that methane is methane, and how that as a compound 0:18:22.260 --> 0:18:25.290 acts and where it goes, and it's ability to sit 0:18:25.290 --> 0:18:29.070 up there and form a blanket and refract really strongly 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.190 heat back into our atmosphere is just what happens. We 0:18:32.190 --> 0:18:36.180 can't change that science, that's just there. So going through 0:18:36.180 --> 0:18:39.540 and thinking about all of that stuff and ensuring that, 0:18:39.930 --> 0:18:42.959 one, the information was right, and that's all you can 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.629 do is just keep reading and reading and looking and 0:18:45.630 --> 0:18:48.840 searching. And again, what I said before, make sure you're 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.020 searching for the stuff that disproves your theory as well 0:18:52.020 --> 0:18:54.810 as proves your theory. And if you're not thinking in 0:18:54.810 --> 0:18:57.330 both ways, you're not really being responsible in it. So 0:18:57.330 --> 0:19:01.560 it was a long time about reading and thinking and 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.780 finding the right time to actually start talking about it, 0:19:03.810 --> 0:19:06.270 because it certainly was not something that was talked about 0:19:06.270 --> 0:19:09.840 in the industry. In fact, it was quite controversial to 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.330 talk about it. And so as somebody who was selling 0:19:12.330 --> 0:19:15.840 a product, that I wanted to communicate with people about 0:19:15.869 --> 0:19:18.510 how good our product was, if I started talking with 0:19:18.510 --> 0:19:22.470 that language, potentially people were going to call me an 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.620 idiot or whatever it was, which all of it was 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.850 probably true, but we decided to just find the time 0:19:29.850 --> 0:19:36.270 and do it slowly and quietly and professional. We just 0:19:36.270 --> 0:19:38.940 started to do it and I had lots of conversations 0:19:38.940 --> 0:19:43.230 in pubs at night and dinner parties and birthday parties 0:19:43.230 --> 0:19:45.000 and whatever, annoying the hell out of people. 'Cause I wanted 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.420 to find out what people thought and what their reactions 0:19:48.450 --> 0:19:51.930 would be and what their part was. Anyway, so the 0:19:51.930 --> 0:19:55.260 next step for us was to say, " Well, we better 0:19:55.260 --> 0:19:57.270 see if we can collect some data in this area 0:19:57.270 --> 0:19:59.850 and see if we can collaborate with some people to 0:19:59.850 --> 0:20:02.310 help us try and work it out." And once you 0:20:02.310 --> 0:20:04.470 sort of got to the stage that you accepted the 0:20:04.470 --> 0:20:09.119 science and then started to accept the potential risk to 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.689 the beef industry into the future, then it felt like 0:20:12.780 --> 0:20:14.640 a bit of an obligation to get on with trying 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.820 to find out what this science is about and how 0:20:17.820 --> 0:20:22.350 we can identify it and improve it over time and 0:20:22.350 --> 0:20:25.290 then communicate it over time. Which was in all my 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.469 understanding, it's all about the only way if we're going 0:20:28.470 --> 0:20:31.379 to stay here as an industry is if we can 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.919 communicate to consumers that we're just taking a bit of 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.770 responsibility for the small bit that we emit. That's all 0:20:37.770 --> 0:20:40.350 they expect from us. They don't want us to fix 0:20:40.350 --> 0:20:42.660 climate change totally. All they want us to do is 0:20:42.660 --> 0:20:44.970 take responsibility for the small bit and that's what they're 0:20:44.970 --> 0:20:49.770 asking of everybody. So we can sit and whinge and 0:20:49.770 --> 0:20:52.500 feel sorry for ourselves all we like, but that's the 0:20:52.500 --> 0:20:55.830 basic principle of how it'll work. Because we just can't 0:20:55.830 --> 0:21:00.270 communicate with every single consumer and have a little chat, 0:21:00.780 --> 0:21:02.880 or expect them to sit down and watch a video 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.040 or an ad or something. It just doesn't work that 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.649 way. They're not interested in us and nor should they 0:21:07.650 --> 0:21:10.200 be because it's just meat, it's just a bit of 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:14.940 food. We're not that important. So our collaboration with the 0:21:14.940 --> 0:21:18.030 university sort of came around that space of just, again, 0:21:18.030 --> 0:21:21.330 trying to ensure that we're sticking to the science and 0:21:21.330 --> 0:21:23.760 trying to find out information how we can move forward. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:29.100 So luckily we bumped into Luciano, who's at Sydney University 0:21:29.460 --> 0:21:31.920 and worked out some stuff. And so for three or 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.490 four years there we had technology, that I couldn't afford 0:21:35.490 --> 0:21:39.570 but the university had, being able to collect methane production 0:21:39.570 --> 0:21:44.220 from animals in real time whilst also collecting their feed 0:21:44.220 --> 0:21:47.820 efficiency data. So we did that for a long time, 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:53.520 even as long as we had animals. We tested heifers that 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.750 had then calved down twice and then we tested them 0:21:57.750 --> 0:22:01.260 again on grass out in the paddock with these same 0:22:01.260 --> 0:22:05.880 machines, saying, " Is this feed efficiency stuff that we're collecting 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.080 in pens, is that giving us something that's worthwhile on 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.430 grass in a cow?" 'Cause the majority of emissions come 0:22:14.430 --> 0:22:19.050 from our cows, so unless we concentrate on fixing that 0:22:19.140 --> 0:22:24.390 problem, then we're only tinkering around the sides unfortunately. So 0:22:24.630 --> 0:22:27.179 that data's been collected not that long ago, still to 0:22:27.180 --> 0:22:30.420 be analyzed. It's a little bit frustrating, that we'd like 0:22:30.420 --> 0:22:32.760 to get some results from that. But yeah, some really 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.940 interesting stuff. All the early signs of stuff is saying that 0:22:35.940 --> 0:22:39.480 it's there. The other part that we've just done recently 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:45.359 was with Agscent. Agscent's a company that's sort of developing 0:22:45.450 --> 0:22:52.740 useful agricultural technology for the beef industry, particularly in measuring 0:22:52.770 --> 0:22:57.720 pregnancy. Taking a breath of the animal into a bag, 0:22:57.750 --> 0:23:00.960 attaching that bag to a machine that measures. And they can 0:23:01.230 --> 0:23:06.030 tell within the first 18 days, I think, whether an 0:23:06.030 --> 0:23:10.290 animal's pregnant or not. There's enormous excitement in the industry 0:23:10.590 --> 0:23:12.600 about what that same machine may be able to do 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:17.369 in relation to detecting disease in animals, particularly respiratory diseases 0:23:17.369 --> 0:23:21.000 in feedlots and that sort of stuff. But Agscent, as 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.359 a company, then teamed up with Optiweigh. So Optiweigh we 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.119 know is a machine that we can now put out 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:30.480 in our paddocks. In a commercial sense, it's available at 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:34.139 a commercial price, that will weigh the animals in the 0:23:34.140 --> 0:23:36.900 paddock day to day over a period of time and 0:23:36.900 --> 0:23:39.660 give us an idea of how they're growing. All that 0:23:39.660 --> 0:23:42.419