Neroli Brennan: This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have
Neroli Brennan: a good yarn about ag life with producers who are
Neroli Brennan: having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers
Neroli Brennan: in New South Wales who are out there battling the
Neroli Brennan: elements, making tough calls and getting the job done. You'll
Neroli Brennan: get a laugh out of some of their stories and
Neroli Brennan: also pick up some know- how along the way. I'm
Neroli Brennan: your host, Neroli Brennan. Today, we're chatting with Emma Bowman.
Neroli Brennan: Emma is passionate about the sheep industry, having grown up
Neroli Brennan: on Uardry Merino Stud near Hay where her father was
Neroli Brennan: the manager for nearly 20 years. For Emma, this has
Neroli Brennan: instilled a passion for agriculture and for sheep genetics, leading
Neroli Brennan: her to work actively within the industry based out of
Neroli Brennan: Dubbo specializing in sheep reproduction, specifically artificial insemination, embryo transfer,
Neroli Brennan: and semen collection. In this episode, Emma discusses the process
Neroli Brennan: of artificial insemination and how Central West farmers are increasingly
Neroli Brennan: looking to artificial breeding services to fine- tune their livestock
Neroli Brennan: reproduction. You'll also hear Emma highlight the pros and cons
Neroli Brennan: of artificial reproduction and how farmers can maximize their genetic
Neroli Brennan: gain and accelerate production in their livestock system. Local Land
Neroli Brennan: Services Mixed Farming Officer, Rohan Leach, sat down with his good mate
Neroli Brennan: Emma for this chat, one relaxed Sunday afternoon in Dubbo.
Rohan Leach: Good day, listeners. Today I'm interviewing a good mate near
Rohan Leach: Dubbo, Emma Bowman. Emma, welcome to the Seeds for Success podcast.
Emma Bowman: Thanks, Leachie. Nice to be here.
Rohan Leach: Bowie, you aren't a farmer per se at the moment.
Rohan Leach: What is it exactly that you do?
Emma Bowman: I'm actually involved in sheep reproduction, specifically artificial breeding. I
Emma Bowman: work for a company called Genstock, specializing in artificial insemination,
Emma Bowman: embryo transfer, and semen collection. I'm based here in Dubbo,
Emma Bowman: but there's also two other centers, one down at Jerilderie
Emma Bowman: in New South Wales and one at Hamilton in Victoria,
Emma Bowman: whereby we undertake work across four different states, so it
Emma Bowman: tends to keep us busy enough.
Rohan Leach: Wow, so it's a pretty diverse and big operation, just completely
Rohan Leach: focused on sheep?
Emma Bowman: Yeah, that's our specialty.
Rohan Leach: So how did you get into this work?
Emma Bowman: Good question. So I grew up on a Merino stud
Emma Bowman: down at Hay in the Riverina. The name of it was Uardry. My
Emma Bowman: dad managed it for 20 years and yeah, that's definitely where
Emma Bowman: I developed my passion for ag. Uardry used to be 85,
Emma Bowman: 000 acres and we ran sheep, both Merinos and Dohnes
Emma Bowman: as well as cattle and some cropping. I used to
Emma Bowman: love helping the jackaroos, probably often more havoc than actual
Emma Bowman: help, but yeah, I remember as a kid my three
Emma Bowman: favorite things actually used to be lamb marking, putting out
Emma Bowman: fox baits and helping with the AI and ET. And
Emma Bowman: it's just amazing how things work out in life because
Emma Bowman: the people that often used to do our AI and ET programs
Emma Bowman: were Rosie and Dave Kennett from Genstock at Jerilderie, and they're actually
Emma Bowman: the people that I've now recently gone into business with
Emma Bowman: and started up the center here in Dubbo. So I
Emma Bowman: feel very lucky to have been given that opportunity and
Emma Bowman: yeah, excited to see what the future holds.
Rohan Leach: It's so often in the ag industry that it's not
Rohan Leach: what you know it's who you know.
Emma Bowman: Yeah, absolutely. You can't underestimate the power of relationships.
Rohan Leach: With your initial start with Genstock, were you an employee
Rohan Leach: or how did you enter into the business there?
Emma Bowman: No, actually, I think it was more so the fact
Emma Bowman: that I was working for another artificial breeding company called
Emma Bowman: Apiam for two years previously, and the Apiam business up here
Emma Bowman: at Dubbo actually ended up closing. But with the business
Emma Bowman: here at Apiam closing, it then created a good opportunity
Emma Bowman: for someone to fill that gap and Rosie and Dave
Emma Bowman: Kennett, having been in the industry already for 30 years with
Emma Bowman: two well- established and respected businesses in Jerilderie and Hamilton,
Emma Bowman: there was a gap to fill. And I guess from
Emma Bowman: the previous relationship that we had, and been family friends
Emma Bowman: over time, they just knew me as a person and
Emma Bowman: thought that we would make a good team together. And
Emma Bowman: so have started here at Dubbo, opening the center July
Emma Bowman: 2021 and have been the manager here since.
Rohan Leach: What does your role entail specifically?
Emma Bowman: We're lucky to surround ourself with a great team. Everyone
Emma Bowman: is upskilled and interchangeable in what we do. But I guess
Emma Bowman: from day to day, we can be found in the
Emma Bowman: ram shed collecting rams, processing, freezing semen, doing semen dispatches,
Emma Bowman: coordinating, communicating and liaising with clients to book AI programs
Emma Bowman: in, dispatching AI drugs, organizing semen requirements, packing semen to
Emma Bowman: then for the vet to take out on farm. And
Emma Bowman: all the fun office jobs like invoicing and bookwork.
Rohan Leach: And what's your favorite part? My guess maybe wouldn't be
Rohan Leach: collection of the semen. What is your favorite part of the role?
Emma Bowman: I think it's actually probably the people, working with the
Emma Bowman: clients. All our clients are farmers, and as you know,
Emma Bowman: are terrific people, just genuine, hardworking, and always looking to
Emma Bowman: do things better. So essentially, our clients are aiming to
Emma Bowman: either cut more wool, breed more lambs, or produce a
Emma Bowman: better carcass that's going to hang out well, which overall
Emma Bowman: helps drive profitability and productivity. So I find it really
Emma Bowman: rewarding to be able to help them in that process.
Rohan Leach: So we might get into the client side of things
Rohan Leach: a bit later in the interview, but I just want
Rohan Leach: to go through the process of what is involved with
Rohan Leach: semen collection. Give me a rundown of what happens when
Rohan Leach: a farmer contacts you and the process from there.
Emma Bowman: Yeah, good question. Everyone's always very intrigued in the semen
Emma Bowman: collection side of the business, it's obviously quite a unique industry
Emma Bowman: to be in. Basically, when a client contacts us, depending on
Emma Bowman: the urgency of the semen, we aim to try and
Emma Bowman: get the ram in as soon as we can and
Emma Bowman: then the client will bring the ram into our collection
Emma Bowman: center. On arrival, we'll have a brief discussion with the
Emma Bowman: client in regards to the doses they require, whether the ram
Emma Bowman: served the ewe previously or not, and the general health
Emma Bowman: status of the ram. They then go through a foot
Emma Bowman: bath and go into a clean pen that's been disinfected
Emma Bowman: for bio- security reasons. But in terms of the actual
Emma Bowman: collection side of things, we use what you call a
Emma Bowman: teaser, which is a ewe, to help encourage a ram
Emma Bowman: to jump. So while she's happily eating feed in a
Emma Bowman: head bail, we then introduce the ram into the pen.
Emma Bowman: And we have what you call an AV, which is
Emma Bowman: an artificial vagina, whereby after the ram responds to pheromones,
Emma Bowman: as the ram goes to mount the ewe, we then put
Emma Bowman: the AV over his penis and at the end of
Emma Bowman: the AV is a tulip glass, which he ejaculates into.
Emma Bowman: Once the ram thinks that he has served the ewe, we then
Emma Bowman: take the AV into the lab and then look at the semen
Emma Bowman: under the microscope, whereby we look at the motility concentration
Emma Bowman: and volume of the semen. And permitted that it looks
Emma Bowman: good fresh, we will then dilute it down before putting
Emma Bowman: it in the fridge to chill and then freezing the
Emma Bowman: semen. However, all semen needs to be evaluated and pass
Emma Bowman: Australian Standards in order to then go out into the
Emma Bowman: field for use.
Rohan Leach: One part of the process that's always intrigued me, I've
Rohan Leach: just seen one of the AVs and it doesn't look typically that
Rohan Leach: appealing. Is there a process in training the ram to jump?
Emma Bowman: Yeah, definitely. One of the questions that we ask the
Emma Bowman: farmer is whether they have a sexually mature or whether
Emma Bowman: they're inexperienced. And often the rams that are inexperienced require
Emma Bowman: a bit more time, patience, in order to get them
Emma Bowman: going. So if that is the case, we often will
Emma Bowman: put a teaser on heat artificially and that helps encourage
Emma Bowman: the ram to work. But yeah, it just varies on
Emma Bowman: whether they actually know what they're doing or not.
Rohan Leach: What's the next step in the process after the semen's
Rohan Leach: been certified?
Emma Bowman: So it then is put into permanent storage here at
Emma Bowman: the center, which is stored in liquid nitrogen in big
Emma Bowman: tanks, and the semen that we collect is either used
Emma Bowman: by the client himself or to sell to other clients
Emma Bowman: from other studs.
Rohan Leach: So what's the general timeline on collection? Is there certain
Rohan Leach: busy times of the year or is it pretty constant?
Emma Bowman: Winter is a quiet time for us, but late August
Emma Bowman: is Dubbo National Sheep Show and collection pretty well commences
Emma Bowman: from then. It gets increasingly busier over September, October when
Emma Bowman: all the on property ram sales have held. And the
Emma Bowman: reason for that being is that when a client purchases
Emma Bowman: a ram, often it's a significant investment and semen collection
Emma Bowman: is seen as a good insurance policy to try and
Emma Bowman: collect his genetics and have it in the tank just
Emma Bowman: in case something happens to the ram once he goes
Emma Bowman: home. But semen collection for us here at Dubbo, the period
Emma Bowman: lasts from late August all the way through to sort
Emma Bowman: of May.
Rohan Leach: And so do you then help with AI- ing embryo
Rohan Leach: transferring and those sorts of things as well?
Emma Bowman: Yeah, I do like to go out and help. It's always a
Emma Bowman: fantastic day in the shed. It's exciting to see the
Emma Bowman: client passionate about what they're doing and it's always good banter.
Emma Bowman: But unfortunately, IT tend to be based at the center
Emma Bowman: more often, doing a lot of work in the background,
Emma Bowman: making sure that it's generally a pretty seamless process across
Emma Bowman: the board.
Rohan Leach: Bowie, what do you see as the future of semen
Rohan Leach: collection or maybe AI and sheep reproduction in general?
Emma Bowman: I think the future of artificial breeding, in general, is
Emma Bowman: very promising. The combination in the recent years, having experienced
Emma Bowman: three really good seasons as well as commodity prices being
Emma Bowman: quite strong, that nothing's going to change any time soon.
Emma Bowman: With the on property ram sales, as well as the
Emma Bowman: increasing reliance on social media and marketing, it's created a
Emma Bowman: lot of competition between the different studs. And I think
Emma Bowman: that has really driven and increased the amount of work
Emma Bowman: that we do now in facilitating those clients to try and
Emma Bowman: enhance their own genetics and separate them from the rest
Emma Bowman: of the other studs trying to improve.
Rohan Leach: So is that competition a good thing for the industry
Rohan Leach: or would you like to see more maybe collaboration within the industry?
Emma Bowman: Overall, the increased competition, I think, actually has a positive
Emma Bowman: impact on everyone. In terms of business, fortunately, our calendar's
Emma Bowman: pretty full and they're not making extra days in the year.
Emma Bowman: So yeah, we tend to be pretty busy with AI
Emma Bowman: and ET up here at Dubbo from sort of November
Emma Bowman: through to mid- May. Yeah, there's not too many spare
Emma Bowman: days in between. But overall, as an industry, I think
Emma Bowman: the competition helps us always strive to be better and
Emma Bowman: produce a better animal, which overall is going to help
Emma Bowman: the profitability and productivity for those clients and what they
Emma Bowman: do day in and day out as well.
Rohan Leach: You've also mentioned that marketing has come into it a
Rohan Leach: lot and probably social media and people sort of seeing maybe
Rohan Leach: what's always greener on the other side. Have you got
Rohan Leach: any comments about that as well?
Emma Bowman: Marketing is a fantastic tool, but I think at the
Emma Bowman: end of the day the best thing is you can
Emma Bowman: invest all the money that you want into marketing, but
Emma Bowman: the product speaks for itself. So long- term, and that's
Emma Bowman: the thing with breeding, is that the long- term you'll
Emma Bowman: determine whether that bloodline is an appropriate fit for your
Emma Bowman: existing flock or whether you should try something else that's
Emma Bowman: going to be more complimentary.
Rohan Leach: Just moving on to the next topic. So tell me
Rohan Leach: about your typical client.
Emma Bowman: So I guess our typical client generally are stud breeders.
Emma Bowman: We do also have a couple of commercial producers AI-
Emma Bowman: ing as well. I guess in terms of AI, it is
Emma Bowman: a significant investment, but for the commercial producers, the main
Emma Bowman: benefit for them is that from time to time they
Emma Bowman: can introduce new genetics to enhance their existing flock. But
Emma Bowman: also from a management perspective, the fact that AI is
Emma Bowman: conducted with ewes that have synchronized estrus, meaning that all
Emma Bowman: the ewes cycle on one day, means that there's a
Emma Bowman: much more compressed lambing. So that then helps in terms
Emma Bowman: of their management with lamb marking, weaning and particularly if,
Emma Bowman: yeah, prime lamb producer or meat breed, then they have
Emma Bowman: a more even line to send off to market.
Rohan Leach: That would probably limit maybe the size of the flock
Rohan Leach: that you can handle at once. What would be your
Rohan Leach: average flock size that you're getting in line for an
Rohan Leach: AI program?
Emma Bowman: So yeah, realistically we probably have a range in mob
Emma Bowman: sizes, anywhere from 50 ewes up to sort of 2000 ewes. Obviously,
Emma Bowman: depending on how many ewes that they want to AI
Emma Bowman: then determines on how many days the specialists are required
Emma Bowman: out on farm doing that work.
Rohan Leach: And what would be the sort of strike rate on AI-ing?
Emma Bowman: So generally we sort of aim for at least 70 to 75% with AI,
Emma Bowman: and ET stick rate is more like 70 to 80%.
Rohan Leach: And you're just covering those with advice to cover those
Rohan Leach: with backup rams or... ?
Emma Bowman: Yes. So for the people that actually own their own rams,
Emma Bowman: the backup option is always encouraged.
Rohan Leach: Do you work closely with your clients on genetics and
Rohan Leach: herd improvement or they come to you, get the semen
Rohan Leach: and off they go? Do you ever offer any advice?
Emma Bowman: We probably don't really provide much advice. The responsibility of
Emma Bowman: determining what genetics that they would like to use is
Emma Bowman: up to the client, whether that may be them attending
Emma Bowman: field days, going to shows, going to on property ram
Emma Bowman: sales and doing the physical inspection of the size. And
Emma Bowman: then often they use ASBVs as well to help make
Emma Bowman: informed breeding decisions. But we more so help facilitate, once
Emma Bowman: they've made that decision, we help facilitate then to get
Emma Bowman: the semen to our AI center and make sure it's ready
Emma Bowman: to use for their program.
Rohan Leach: So AI has been around for a while. Do you
Rohan Leach: think it's largely confined to certain sectors of the industry?
Emma Bowman: Yeah, I'd say maximum benefit would be from the stud
Emma Bowman: breeders for the sole reason of them being able to
Emma Bowman: utilize genetics from other studs without actually necessarily having to
Emma Bowman: invest in the physical ram themself. They're able to trial
Emma Bowman: and experiment with different blood lines without the significant outlay
Emma Bowman: of the ram.
Rohan Leach: And so why do you think it's confined to the
Rohan Leach: seed stock side of the industry? Why do you think more
Rohan Leach: commercial breeders aren't using AI?
Emma Bowman: I think at this point in time it's more so
Emma Bowman: just based on the fact of the overall investment of
Emma Bowman: AI. Generally, in Australia, one dose of semen can range
Emma Bowman: from anywhere from $ 30 up to a $100 per dose. Then, in addition, you
Emma Bowman: need to factor in the cost of the drugs as
Emma Bowman: well as then getting a specialist out on farm to
Emma Bowman: undertake that work. So I think for a lot of
Emma Bowman: commercial producers, they think it's just easier to purchase rams, ideally get
Emma Bowman: four to six years out of them and then repeat that.
Rohan Leach: So for maybe a quick cost comparison, say for a
Rohan Leach: hundred ewes, maybe a physical rams that might cost you
Rohan Leach: a thousand dollars a ram, maybe two rams for that
Rohan Leach: hundred, what would the comparative cost of AI be for
Rohan Leach: that hundred ewes? Say with a $ 30 straw package.
Emma Bowman: Roughly, you'd probably be looking at least sort of 60 to $ 70
Emma Bowman: a head.
Rohan Leach: That's cool. That's interesting. Yeah, that explains it.
Emma Bowman: Yeah, too right. Well, yeah, I guess one of those things
Emma Bowman: that everyone's always looking for different alternatives to obviously try
Emma Bowman: and do what they do better, but whether or not it's a good
Emma Bowman: fit for you is something that the individual needs to determine.
Rohan Leach: Would you have many clients that maybe are using it
Rohan Leach: to breed their own rams? Say they've got 50 or 100
Rohan Leach: stud ewes and they're breeding their own rams for on-
Rohan Leach: farm use?
Emma Bowman: Yeah, there actually are people that do that and there's
Emma Bowman: people that also AI, non- consecutively, like they slowly are
Emma Bowman: progressing and then a few years later they might invest
Emma Bowman: again just to try and introduce some new genetics to
Emma Bowman: obviously improve the areas that they think is required. But yeah,
Emma Bowman: definitely there's people that see good economic return on being
Emma Bowman: able to breed their own rams rather than having to
Emma Bowman: purchase in the current market, which is obviously pretty red-
Emma Bowman: hot and fantastic to see. But I'd say averages of
Emma Bowman: ram sales in the last few years has really sort
Emma Bowman: of ranged anywhere from $1, 800 up to five and a
Emma Bowman: half grand almost. So rams obviously make up 50% of
Emma Bowman: the reproductive equation, but it is a big outlay.
Rohan Leach: So where do you see as the greatest benefit to producers lie?
Emma Bowman: The greatest would have to be the fact that you're able
Emma Bowman: to maximize genetic gain through purchasing semen, but you don't
Emma Bowman: necessarily actually have to physically have the ram to do
Emma Bowman: a natural paddock mating. Then their return comes from seeing
Emma Bowman: how those offspring then perform. And a lot of those
Emma Bowman: stud breeders, through their AI and ET programs, they're a lot of the
Emma Bowman: top performing rams and achieve the greatest results of their
Emma Bowman: own sales.
Rohan Leach: Bowie, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today.
Rohan Leach: It's been a bit of a trial to find time
Rohan Leach: in your busy schedule, but much appreciated, mate.
Emma Bowman: No, that's a pleasure, Leachie, great to be here with
Emma Bowman: you. Thank you.
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