WEBVTT - Going out for bread and milk and buying a Dorper stud 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.570 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.570 --> 0:00:12.539 a good yarn about ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.539 --> 0:00:15.300 having a go. On the show you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.300 --> 0:00:17.880 in New South Wales who are out there battling the 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:22.230 elements, making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll 0:00:22.230 --> 0:00:24.480 get a laugh out of some of their stories and 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.300 also pick up some know- how along the way. I'm 0:00:27.300 --> 0:00:36.089 your host, Neroli Brennan. Today we're continuing our chat with 0:00:36.150 --> 0:00:39.600 Hamish Wald. In our last episode, Hamish gave us the 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.659 rich history of his family farm business and all the 0:00:42.659 --> 0:00:45.990 help, support and luck he's utilized to get where he 0:00:45.990 --> 0:00:50.790 is today. In today's episode, Hamish delves into their experiences 0:00:50.909 --> 0:00:54.930 of shifting their dual- purpose sheep enterprise to White Dorpers, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.160 explaining how well- suited they are to their farm and 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.360 business goals. Hamish also shares with us how important it 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.110 is to surround yourself with great people, and he explains 0:01:07.110 --> 0:01:10.319 how proud he is to have his children returning to the 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.250 business and building skills and knowledge that will allow them 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.240 to grow beyond the family business. You'll also hear Hamish 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.180 talking about the steps they are taking to build their 0:01:21.180 --> 0:01:25.650 Dorper stud, and how they're using EID to really refine their 0:01:25.650 --> 0:01:30.120 stock flock with a focus on optimizing length, depth, and 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:34.140 width, to meet their meat carcass quality goals and to 0:01:34.140 --> 0:01:39.240 match their environmental growing conditions. Today, Local Land Services natural 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.930 resource officer, Jasmine Wells, brings you this second part of 0:01:42.930 --> 0:01:45.360 her great two- part chat with Hamish. 0:01:49.020 --> 0:01:51.930 So Alex and Callum are both on the farm? 0:01:51.930 --> 0:01:55.470 They are. They've fallen into it. Alex, she was a 0:01:55.470 --> 0:01:58.380 bit unlucky. Her gap year fell into the first year 0:01:58.380 --> 0:02:01.710 of COVID, so she'd worked really hard right through school, 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:06.090 through everything. Her extracurricular, she had an off the track 0:02:06.300 --> 0:02:09.060 thoroughbred with a heart of a lion, jumping really well, 0:02:09.210 --> 0:02:12.180 and she was unlucky. In year 12 at school, he got 0:02:12.180 --> 0:02:16.080 lame a couple of crucial times. So he got lame at Willinga 0:02:16.169 --> 0:02:19.168 about a month before the Aus Champs down at Boneo, 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.980 and so he was lame going to that till about 0:02:22.980 --> 0:02:26.040 a week before he was sound. So she was able 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.310 to final and got to 20th, and then she placed at 0:02:29.310 --> 0:02:32.010 Summer Classic in the end of December and she was 0:02:32.010 --> 0:02:34.020 looking forward to that next year where she could have 0:02:34.020 --> 0:02:36.000 12 months where she was just going to be working 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.389 at home, but she'd go to every show she could 0:02:39.389 --> 0:02:41.160 do. She'd go up and do the Queensland run in the 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.340 winter, she'd do the spring run down through here, she'd 0:02:44.340 --> 0:02:48.360 do state champs and no distractions, but COVID happened and 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.210 like so many kids it got disrupted. And then when it 0:02:51.210 --> 0:02:53.370 got to the end of the second year, she was 0:02:53.370 --> 0:02:55.709 tossing up whether to try and have another gap year 0:02:55.710 --> 0:03:00.060 or start uni. And she made the decision that second 0:03:00.060 --> 0:03:03.600 year of COVID it was going to be no different. And so she put 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.020 herself in to do Ag Economics up at UNE, went 0:03:07.020 --> 0:03:09.570 up there, loved her time up there, but she's got 0:03:09.570 --> 0:03:11.820 herself through and she's got one year to go. And 0:03:11.820 --> 0:03:14.100 so she's come home to do her last year. It's 0:03:14.100 --> 0:03:16.889 been fantastic having her home. She's got 12 months at 0:03:16.889 --> 0:03:18.389 home. She's got into a really good job while she 0:03:18.389 --> 0:03:21.690 was up there for her working for a software crowd 0:03:21.750 --> 0:03:24.720 based in agriculture. And so she's still doing that three 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.270 days a week at home. And then she works here 0:03:27.330 --> 0:03:31.080 Thursday, Friday and she manages to get her uni done 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.020 at sometime in the middle, as most people seem to 0:03:34.020 --> 0:03:36.900 be doing that now. This younger generation does so much 0:03:36.930 --> 0:03:38.220 more work than we ever did. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.610 I didn't actually know her. I met her briefly at 0:03:41.610 --> 0:03:43.650 the draft, but I didn't know it was her. My 0:03:43.650 --> 0:03:46.980 mother actually commented. She said, " Oh, look at this young 0:03:46.980 --> 0:03:49.050 girl here. The time that she took to stop and 0:03:49.050 --> 0:03:53.490 talk to some of the young girls drafting." Just really kind. And there was a 0:03:53.490 --> 0:03:55.710 couple of little kids that came up and talked to her. 0:03:56.130 --> 0:04:00.240 Oh no. Yeah, no, we're very lucky, Penny and I. And 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.610 it's nothing to do with us. We spent the first 0:04:02.610 --> 0:04:04.860 year worried they'd break. By the second year we realized, 0:04:04.860 --> 0:04:07.260 you can't really break them, and they're just the same children 0:04:07.260 --> 0:04:10.320 they've been since they were tiny. Callum and Alex, I 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.630 think they're born with their personality and we're just lucky. 0:04:13.110 --> 0:04:15.030 COVID was very cruel, but it meant we've had them 0:04:15.030 --> 0:04:16.830 for an extra couple of years that we wouldn't have had. 0:04:16.890 --> 0:04:18.360 So Callum's on the farm as well. 0:04:18.450 --> 0:04:20.489 He is. Callum, when he left school, it was a 0:04:20.490 --> 0:04:25.320 battle to keep him through year 11 and 12 because it's not 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:26.880 his thing. He is very lucky. There was a careers 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.299 day and basically they let him know that if he 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.140 left school at 16, he still wouldn't have his licence. And 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:36.690 if he then decided later on he did want to 0:04:36.690 --> 0:04:39.480 study, it didn't matter how well he did in year 11 and 12, 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.029 but anything he did then would make it easier for 0:04:42.029 --> 0:04:44.940 him later on. And he had a terrific mentor at 0:04:44.940 --> 0:04:47.670 the school who went with them from year 7 right 0:04:47.670 --> 0:04:50.940 through. And he had an incredible group of peers. And 0:04:51.390 --> 0:04:52.710 once he made the decision he was going to do 0:04:52.710 --> 0:04:56.219 year 11 and 12, he had a terrific work placement English teacher 0:04:56.220 --> 0:04:59.910 who was from a rural background. She understood those bush 0:04:59.910 --> 0:05:01.920 kids. So he put his head down and worked really 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.529 hard through year 11, got himself early entry to uni. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.279 Callum's a pretty straight thinker, then figured his work was 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.370 done, parents were off his back. So I don't think 0:05:11.370 --> 0:05:14.100 there's a lot of work done for year 12, but 0:05:14.220 --> 0:05:17.850 then he left school and a week after he left school he'd organized 0:05:17.850 --> 0:05:20.041 a job for himself at Burrawang, which, we're lucky, is the Dorper stud at Ootha. 0:05:20.041 --> 0:05:20.041 Good grounding. 0:05:20.041 --> 0:05:27.750 Incredible team. Graham Pickles, who was a major shareholder, was an entrepreneur from 0:05:27.750 --> 0:05:32.099 Sydney and had a terrific clear thinking business brain. Mal 0:05:32.100 --> 0:05:35.669 Brady who was the stud manager from the school of 0:05:35.670 --> 0:05:39.750 hard knocks. He'd learnt everything the hard way, incredibly hard 0:05:39.750 --> 0:05:43.529 worker, but incredibly positive. And then Wicus Cronje, who was the 0:05:43.529 --> 0:05:47.880 stud master from South Africa, Barend's dad. Look, there's been 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.700 a lot of really important foundation people in the breed, 0:05:51.270 --> 0:05:56.010 but the work he did there, it's just carried the breed forward. He's 0:05:56.010 --> 0:05:59.550 just taught everyone. He's very generous with his time and 0:05:59.550 --> 0:06:04.290 he's passionate about the breed and God, the whole breed 0:06:04.589 --> 0:06:07.350 has been very lucky to have him. And well, his 0:06:07.350 --> 0:06:09.480 work and his work in the Dorper breed will actually spread out 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.060 through the rest of the sheep industry because it's just 0:06:12.270 --> 0:06:15.510 based on sound principles, and a lot of it goes 0:06:15.510 --> 0:06:18.299 back to what our grandfathers used to say, to be quite honest, a 0:06:18.300 --> 0:06:21.330 fair bit of it. So Callum is very lucky. Went 0:06:21.330 --> 0:06:24.299 into that environment and he had six months there. It 0:06:24.300 --> 0:06:25.950 was just very good for him. He was surrounded by 0:06:25.950 --> 0:06:29.640 those people who were very generous and gave him a 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.890 lot of time because he was just an 18- year- 0:06:31.890 --> 0:06:35.400 old boy with too many questions. And so yeah, he 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.049 loved it. He had a really good six months there. Then it 0:06:37.410 --> 0:06:41.670 was sold to a corporate because there was no real succession for 0:06:41.670 --> 0:06:44.790 that group of people. They were all looking to move on 0:06:44.790 --> 0:06:46.680 I think, and then it was sold to a corporate. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.410 He actually decided to come home at the end of 0:06:49.410 --> 0:06:54.570 that, and he deserved to go away. The same as 0:06:54.570 --> 0:06:57.990 Alex. There's been so much change with the stud and so much work and they've just taken on 0:06:58.710 --> 0:07:02.430 the physical side. Alex has taken on all the technical 0:07:02.430 --> 0:07:06.210 side of it, and the work she's done with our 0:07:06.210 --> 0:07:09.150 cross systems has been able to come across into it. 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:11.730 And they've done work that we couldn't possibly have done. 0:07:11.730 --> 0:07:16.290 And then with Barend, we were very lucky. Barend, he 0:07:16.290 --> 0:07:19.710 was already well known in Condo. His wife, Stevie, she's 0:07:19.710 --> 0:07:23.490 always been a fantastic girl in Condo. Fortunately he married her, 0:07:23.580 --> 0:07:27.390 which has anchored him here a bit. Scanning and lamb- 0:07:27.390 --> 0:07:31.080 marking, working in the sheep industry, he already had an 0:07:31.110 --> 0:07:35.220 incredible reputation. He's just well known. He's just a thoroughly 0:07:35.220 --> 0:07:40.290 decent, reliable, hardworking, kind man. He'd already been working with 0:07:40.290 --> 0:07:42.090 the stud for Robin and Anne, who we bought it 0:07:42.090 --> 0:07:45.150 off, for four years. So he was doing all the 0:07:45.150 --> 0:07:50.640 classing and stud work anyway. But we were so lucky when we approached him 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.370 to come and help us, because we needed him and 0:07:53.370 --> 0:07:56.550 he took it on. Like most relationships, you think you 0:07:56.550 --> 0:07:58.830 know what you're getting into, but you don't know. And 0:07:59.490 --> 0:08:03.570 he's just an incredibly intelligent guy, thoughtful guy. He's helped 0:08:03.570 --> 0:08:06.870 create this terrific culture on the place with Alex and 0:08:06.870 --> 0:08:09.480 Callum and other people we've had come and work. Yeah, 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.790 he's got a huge future in the industry. I think, 0:08:11.790 --> 0:08:14.369 a bit like both of our kids, they're going to 0:08:14.429 --> 0:08:18.600 outgrow the farm. The world's changing very quickly and they've got 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.540 these other outside skills. They bring great skills to the 0:08:21.540 --> 0:08:24.960 farm, Alex does, but Alex is quiet in the background. 0:08:25.710 --> 0:08:27.840 She's going to have a bigger future than just the 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.050 farm. The same with Callum. His ability to get on 0:08:31.050 --> 0:08:34.740 with people and even get through difficult situations, which his 0:08:34.740 --> 0:08:36.809 mother's got and she deals with every day in her 0:08:36.809 --> 0:08:39.630 work. She's got a team of 25 with her and 0:08:39.630 --> 0:08:42.690 somehow she keeps them all getting on, which I haven't 0:08:42.690 --> 0:08:45.900 got those skills. Callum, so he's the same. I think 0:08:45.900 --> 0:08:48.900 he's got more than just the farm. We're just very, very 0:08:48.900 --> 0:08:51.480 lucky to have him at the moment. And then Barend's the same. 0:08:52.380 --> 0:08:57.240 He's grown up in South Africa and that family has 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.809 developed with the breed in South Africa. So they've tried 0:09:00.809 --> 0:09:02.940 all the things that people are trying now with shedding 0:09:02.940 --> 0:09:06.179 breeds. They've seen the dead ends, they go up. They've 0:09:06.179 --> 0:09:10.080 seen some of them do work, some don't. And I don't think Barend 0:09:10.500 --> 0:09:13.589 ever thought he'd end up doing what he's doing, but 0:09:13.740 --> 0:09:16.679 a mix of his personality and what he's grown up 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.980 in, he's got an enormous future here in Australia. 0:09:20.220 --> 0:09:22.470 Even as a teacher. I've been in the yards with him 0:09:22.650 --> 0:09:24.750 and I'm one of those people that asks too many 0:09:24.750 --> 0:09:28.230 questions and he'll stop and explain exactly what he's doing, 0:09:28.230 --> 0:09:30.990 what he's looking for, and you know he's got a pile of work in 0:09:30.990 --> 0:09:32.520 front of him, but he still takes the time. 0:09:33.809 --> 0:09:35.970 He does. And so he's going to be bigger than our stud. He'll move 0:09:35.970 --> 0:09:39.900 around, but anytime we can pinch off him, we're just 0:09:39.900 --> 0:09:42.690 very grateful for, and we've just got to keep telling ourselves 0:09:42.690 --> 0:09:44.970 that you're better off having someone like that, that you know 0:09:45.059 --> 0:09:48.360 will one day outgrow us, than having someone that hasn't 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.469 got his ability. Because Robin and Anne, the foundation, and Barend 0:09:52.470 --> 0:09:56.280 helped them, that they put into that stud using those 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.720 sires from Burrawang what Wicus and Mal Brady and Graham Pickles, 0:10:01.290 --> 0:10:04.410 and they had this incredible staff there on farm as well, 0:10:04.410 --> 0:10:07.679 like Amy Strudwick doing the marketing, and Anthony, her husband. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.410 We were able to basically piggyback off the back of 0:10:10.410 --> 0:10:14.400 them, that genetic work they did and it just carried us forward. And then 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.510 to have Alex doing that side, which they're all complementing 0:10:18.510 --> 0:10:21.750 each other at the moment. Barend can see everything that's 0:10:21.750 --> 0:10:25.140 there. Alex is able to unfold what's underneath the skin 0:10:25.140 --> 0:10:27.870 of all those animals. Her data means that it is 0:10:27.929 --> 0:10:28.530 all there. 0:10:28.530 --> 0:10:29.250 So you're using EIDs? 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:34.110 Absolutely, EIDs. We're using genomics, we're using every tool we 0:10:34.110 --> 0:10:37.320 can at the moment. It's super expensive. It does not 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.809 help us selling a ram. At the moment, we're in that 0:10:39.809 --> 0:10:42.449 foundation phase of the stud where every cent that we 0:10:42.450 --> 0:10:45.990 make is being spent just building this base, trying to 0:10:45.990 --> 0:10:49.470 create a ewe base going forward. We're using a team 0:10:49.470 --> 0:10:52.710 from OverTech to do all our embryo transfer work. So 0:10:52.710 --> 0:10:56.370 we're using a crowd, Lynn and Francois Marais, reproduction vets 0:10:56.370 --> 0:11:00.030 from Dubbo. They come across and they do two embryo 0:11:00.059 --> 0:11:05.040 programs. Burrawang is still letting us use some of their genetics, which 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.309 has been very good, and we've put a lot of 0:11:08.309 --> 0:11:11.160 resources into trying to create this really good ewe base. 0:11:11.250 --> 0:11:13.320 And what are you looking for in that ewe base? 0:11:13.380 --> 0:11:14.310 What are you aiming for there? 0:11:14.730 --> 0:11:18.330 We're keeping it very, very simple. Fertility is number one, so that's 0:11:18.330 --> 0:11:22.260 where Alex's work in the EIDs is so important. And that 0:11:22.260 --> 0:11:26.550 database, every time a ewe's been joined, who she's been joined 0:11:26.550 --> 0:11:29.670 to, how she's raised those lambs. And we've got history 0:11:29.670 --> 0:11:32.880 and what's fascinating, which anyone that does that, we've got 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.950 some five- year- old ewes that have had 16- year 0:11:35.100 --> 0:11:38.940 lambs naturally in their life, that's in an accelerated joining and 0:11:38.940 --> 0:11:41.550 you've got some ewe's that are only having four, five- year 0:11:41.550 --> 0:11:46.920 period. So fertility is number one. Structure is important as 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.480 well. And then no different to any other sheep developed 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.770 in Australia. We're looking for length, width and depth. We're 0:11:55.770 --> 0:11:59.370 not constraining or looking for a moderate body size in 0:11:59.370 --> 0:12:02.699 the Dorper. We're looking for length, width and depth because 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.820 even though there's a perception that they've been developed for 0:12:05.820 --> 0:12:10.110 that 20 to 22 kilogram carcass, the genetics are already in there 0:12:10.590 --> 0:12:12.929 for them to go bigger, and we're trying not to 0:12:12.929 --> 0:12:16.200 constrain the body that the animal's in because we think 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.780 the environment does that for you. Genetics are only part 0:12:18.780 --> 0:12:21.390 of it, so we're trying to go for length, width and depth 0:12:21.929 --> 0:12:25.230 to get you that good fast early growth. The meat 0:12:25.230 --> 0:12:30.210 sector want them to go out to 28 to 34 kilos carcass. There's a 0:12:30.210 --> 0:12:34.500 portion that's still very marketable at 18 to 20. So if the season's 0:12:34.500 --> 0:12:37.350 tough, they can come off. If the season extends, you 0:12:37.350 --> 0:12:40.050 can take them into that trade range but keep them growing out. 0:12:40.860 --> 0:12:43.199 And so what we're aiming for is a 28 kilogram 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.829 carcass at 28 weeks of age, and that's what the 0:12:46.830 --> 0:12:49.740 processes are telling us they want. They don't get fat in that 0:12:49.740 --> 0:12:52.650 age. They keep growing out. They've got terrific eye muscles, 0:12:53.220 --> 0:12:55.455 length and width and depth. By doing that, you end 0:12:55.455 --> 0:12:58.380 up with good eye muscles, you end up with depth 0:12:58.380 --> 0:13:01.290 down the leg, it'll go to a range of environments. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.230 And then what happens is people in that environment, the 0:13:04.230 --> 0:13:06.990 sheep adapt to what that environment is. If they've got 0:13:06.990 --> 0:13:10.140 too short a growing season, they won't be growing those sheep out to 0:13:10.140 --> 0:13:13.440 a 28 kilogram carcass. They'll be growing it out to 18 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:18.870 to 22 kilos. If it's a tight year, they go at 16 to 18 kilos 0:13:18.870 --> 0:13:20.910 to a bag lamb if it's very tight or if 0:13:20.910 --> 0:13:24.599 you can get their 18 to 20, I guess what they've done, they've 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.510 got rid of that store lamb part of the industry 0:13:28.170 --> 0:13:30.870 because of its nature, is you're selling into the processor 0:13:30.870 --> 0:13:33.780 market the whole time. And depending on where you are 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.840 and how your season's going, we're trying to keep the 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.140 target market open by having that bigger animal. 0:13:40.140 --> 0:13:42.090 You've allowed them to have the potential. 0:13:42.090 --> 0:13:44.729 To do a mix of what their country does and 0:13:44.730 --> 0:13:47.340 what the season does, and then you try and line 0:13:47.340 --> 0:13:50.130 that up with the processor, rather than having a particular 0:13:50.130 --> 0:13:53.850 set market for it to go into. And a lot 0:13:53.850 --> 0:13:56.910 of blood and treasure can go into doing that. And 0:13:56.910 --> 0:13:59.189 the reason I know that is we're doing that with 0:13:59.190 --> 0:14:01.110 our cattle herd at the moment. We're tied up with the 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.250 Teys Grassland for our Herefords. You get the same rate 0:14:05.250 --> 0:14:09.090 or better than the grain fed Angus rate, but to 0:14:09.090 --> 0:14:12.030 get that you've got to grow them out to a 600 kilogram 0:14:12.030 --> 0:14:15.030 carcass. Some years we get them there in 20 months. 0:14:15.390 --> 0:14:19.410 Some year it takes 26 and the 26- month one, it's a 0:14:19.410 --> 0:14:21.540 lot of blood and treasure to get them there and 0:14:21.540 --> 0:14:23.880 your cost base has probably eaten up all that reward. 0:14:24.090 --> 0:14:28.260 So I guess our sheep at the moment, our sheep program 0:14:28.260 --> 0:14:33.630 is so much better suited financially and even agronomically on 0:14:33.630 --> 0:14:36.540 the farm to where we live in the environment we're 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.720 in at the moment. That's part of what we're doing with 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.670 the sheep breed. We're trying to set it up so 0:14:41.670 --> 0:14:43.650 it suits the country we're on and you can keep 0:14:43.650 --> 0:14:45.930 your cost base low that you don't have to feed them. 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:47.700 You can choose to grain feed them if you want 0:14:47.700 --> 0:14:49.410 to, but you don't have to. If you want to 0:14:49.590 --> 0:14:52.080 opt out anywhere along the way, you can match your 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.010 stock to the season. 0:14:53.130 --> 0:14:57.960 And you've got both White Dorper and Dorper. Why is that? Can you 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.180 explain that to someone who doesn't know a lot about Dorpers? 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.870 You see, so far we bought the stud because I went 0:15:03.870 --> 0:15:05.820 to buy bread and milk at Chamens and ran into 0:15:05.820 --> 0:15:09.360 Robin Sanderson. Well, it's even worse. The Black Dorpers were, 0:15:09.750 --> 0:15:13.620 we'd just finished scanning up the Dohne ewes, the first half of the 0:15:13.620 --> 0:15:17.340 dispersal to sell. Callum was working at Burrawang. We'd done 0:15:17.340 --> 0:15:20.850 a very particularly short joining. We'd joined 1, 800 ewes 0:15:21.630 --> 0:15:24.690 for only four and a half weeks in the Dohnes, and 0:15:24.690 --> 0:15:32.730 so we thought we'd have about 15, 20% empties because you're lucky to only get 60% 0:15:32.730 --> 0:15:35.640 in on each cycle just doing the maths. The one 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.070 thing I did remember from ag college. We had about 0:15:38.100 --> 0:15:42.510 300 empties and they'd just been scanned, and Callum rang 0:15:42.510 --> 0:15:45.810 because he was at Burrawang and they're doing their embryo transfer program 0:15:46.380 --> 0:15:50.040 and all their recipient ewes were pregnant, which happens. They're 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.330 highly fertile. And so they were synchronizing their recipes for 0:15:54.330 --> 0:15:57.720 the program and he spoke to Mal Brady who was 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.450 the manager at the time, and he said, " Oh look, 0:16:00.450 --> 0:16:03.600 dad's scanning at the moment. They might have enough empties." 0:16:03.930 --> 0:16:08.280 And so we had 300 empties or whatever. Then he said, " 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.800 Yes, can we have them?" He asked what money we 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.090 wanted for them, and that was early 2020-21, must've been 0:16:15.090 --> 0:16:19.500 about the March, and sheep prices had been quite hot. 0:16:19.590 --> 0:16:21.510 At the heart, you like to think they'll stay the same, but 0:16:21.930 --> 0:16:23.970 in reflection, they were very, very dear and he asked what 0:16:23.970 --> 0:16:28.380 we wanted for them and I said " Look, I don't really care 0:16:28.380 --> 0:16:30.690 about money, but if they've got spare embryos over in 0:16:30.690 --> 0:16:34.980 the program, if we can have some embryos." Because that 0:16:34.980 --> 0:16:38.430 was going to give us genetics that you don't normally 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:44.520 get. There's genetics that those studs at Burrawang now, it's got a very strong commercial focus 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.490 being corporate owned. They won't release any of those genetics 0:16:47.490 --> 0:16:51.000 now because financially it's not in their interest and business 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.250 is business. We've got a very good relationship with them 0:16:53.250 --> 0:16:56.760 and they're very good, but business is business. There was an 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.790 incredible opportunity then. I offered them, I said rather than 0:16:59.940 --> 0:17:04.080 money for the sheep, I'd prefer embryos. And so we 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.320 ended up synchronizing those. It's a long answer to it. 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.930 So what ended up happening, we wanted all white embryos 0:17:09.930 --> 0:17:13.320 because that's all we had. When they did the flush, I 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.190 got a phone call about three weeks later from Mal said, " 0:17:17.700 --> 0:17:19.470 The flush hasn't gone as well as we wanted, so all 0:17:19.470 --> 0:17:22.050 your embryos are going to be black or Dorpers." I went, " 0:17:22.619 --> 0:17:23.850 God Mal, what are we going to do with those?" And then he said, "Oh, I'll see what I 0:17:25.710 --> 0:17:27.359 can do. I'll see what I can do." And then 0:17:28.170 --> 0:17:29.730 we ended up, he rang back and said, " Look, we'll 0:17:29.730 --> 0:17:32.070 give you a 50/50." So we got half white embryos, 0:17:32.070 --> 0:17:36.300 half Dorper embryos, and then he said, " Mate, look, this 0:17:36.300 --> 0:17:38.100 thing's growing that quickly. I've seen it happen in the 0:17:38.100 --> 0:17:40.859 western division. It's about to hit the central wheat belt. 0:17:41.220 --> 0:17:44.908 You're going to need them anyway." And he laughed, and so we ended up with those Dorpers. 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.540 It sort of opened the door for us a bit 0:17:48.540 --> 0:17:51.390 and then they were coming up to selling it and 0:17:51.390 --> 0:17:55.379 they offered us a second lot of embryos and they were very dear, 0:17:55.470 --> 0:17:58.230 but it was the same thing and we couldn't afford them. 0:17:58.230 --> 0:18:01.080 But it's that you don't get those opportunities come along 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.650 and you've just got to grab them. What's that saying? 0:18:04.650 --> 0:18:06.960 The right farm never comes up for sale at the 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.659 right time. And it's the same with that. Those opportunities never come up 0:18:09.660 --> 0:18:12.000 when you're ready for them. And so we bought another 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.140 lot of embryos and they were half Dorper and half White, but he's a very good 0:18:16.140 --> 0:18:18.990 businessman, Mal Brady, and he was thinking ahead. That meant 0:18:18.990 --> 0:18:22.590 we had those terrific Dorper reams for sale, which we had in last 0:18:22.590 --> 0:18:24.270 year's sale. They were as good as the lead of 0:18:24.690 --> 0:18:29.550 Burrawangs who have got extraordinarily as good as anybody's, but 0:18:29.550 --> 0:18:31.649 then we had none for the next sale. So we 0:18:31.650 --> 0:18:33.959 were looking at the place where we had those ewes 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.750 from that flush, which were what we were after. We 0:18:36.750 --> 0:18:39.690 had rams in last year's sale and then we're going 0:18:39.690 --> 0:18:41.850 to have nothing in this year's sale. So then I had 0:18:41.850 --> 0:18:46.740 to go and buy some Dorper ewes off him to flush, because otherwise 0:18:46.740 --> 0:18:48.480 we're going to have rams in last year's sale, rams 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.139 in next year's sale, nothing in this year's sale. So he had me 0:18:52.140 --> 0:18:55.560 over a barrel then and so yeah, he fleeced me. 0:18:55.619 --> 0:18:57.990 We were able to buy 15 and we were able 0:18:57.990 --> 0:19:01.170 to pick them out of their flock, 15 best ewes. 0:19:01.170 --> 0:19:04.560 And Wicus was there helping Callum and they did it together. 0:19:04.740 --> 0:19:06.929 The two of them were able to get 15 ewes 0:19:06.930 --> 0:19:11.040 from 15 different families. So it was terrific for us to 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:15.030 create a base for our Dorper flock. We're no threat to anyone. 0:19:15.030 --> 0:19:18.750 We're still tiny. It'll be five or six years time 0:19:18.750 --> 0:19:22.560 before we've got enough numbers that we can show people 0:19:22.950 --> 0:19:25.560 some really good rams. We're not at the stage where 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.680 we can show them lines of really good Dorper rams. 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.350 That's going to take work as it's taken every other 0:19:31.590 --> 0:19:36.000 major stud in Australia. But Barend is very passionate about Dorper sheep 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.940 because that's what he grew up with. So it's going 0:19:38.940 --> 0:19:41.639 to be an important part of our program, our White Dorpers. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.310 We're very lucky, because Robin had such a good base 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.580 already, we've got really good White Dorper sheep. And I can say 0:19:47.580 --> 0:19:50.790 that because it's had nothing to do with me. It's been to do with Robin and 0:19:50.790 --> 0:19:53.909 Anne's base and then what Barend's been able to do 0:19:53.970 --> 0:19:58.140 and then Alex behind the scenes and Callum as well. 0:19:58.619 --> 0:20:00.540 Yeah, they put together a really good white base of 0:20:00.540 --> 0:20:03.180 sheep and we're hoping the next five or six years 0:20:03.180 --> 0:20:05.700 time, our Dorpers will be just as good. As I said, 0:20:05.700 --> 0:20:08.369 it's that same thing. We were very lucky that the 0:20:08.369 --> 0:20:11.100 base of those sheep were better than I realized from 0:20:11.100 --> 0:20:16.649 Robin and Anne, and then we were able to get those breed leading genetics early. It 0:20:16.650 --> 0:20:20.130 was a once off opportunity and we grabbed it and 0:20:20.130 --> 0:20:23.130 it's worked. We've been very lucky. Now hopefully at some 0:20:23.130 --> 0:20:24.870 point we sell some rams and start to- 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.090 Yeah. So how many rams are you selling a year, 0:20:27.090 --> 0:20:27.630 at the moment? 0:20:27.780 --> 0:20:30.660 We've been selling about 300, so it's gone up very 0:20:30.660 --> 0:20:34.590 quickly. We kicked off with 350 stud ewes initially, from 0:20:34.590 --> 0:20:38.730 Robin and Anne, but we've done six ET programs now, 0:20:39.030 --> 0:20:43.050 so we've had 700 ET lambs on the ground. We 0:20:43.050 --> 0:20:45.629 were able to buy with Matchless, which was one of 0:20:45.630 --> 0:20:49.380 the very good foundation, White Dorper studs. We were able 0:20:49.380 --> 0:20:53.310 to buy 150 of their stud ewes when they dispersed 0:20:53.850 --> 0:20:57.359 last year. And then through natural progression, we're up now to 1, 200 0:20:57.630 --> 0:21:00.630 ewes in the stud, and from that we cull about 0:21:00.630 --> 0:21:07.619 50% still. Even though it was founded in 2005 because 0:21:07.619 --> 0:21:10.530 of that rate, we've still got classing rates are very high 0:21:10.530 --> 0:21:13.679 because we just can't be seen to be selling a 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.109 ram that's not quite there. So we're still culling. 50% of our 0:21:16.109 --> 0:21:20.010 rams go and then at the moment, we've just sold 130 0:21:20.580 --> 0:21:24.000 rams this autumn and we sold 200 rams last spring, 0:21:24.540 --> 0:21:26.970 and so we'll probably try and stay around that for 0:21:26.970 --> 0:21:29.580 a couple of years while we consolidate. And then if 0:21:29.580 --> 0:21:31.409 the demand's there, we'll increase. 0:21:31.530 --> 0:21:33.930 And still running your commercial flock as well. 0:21:34.140 --> 0:21:36.420 It's been hard because we've increased our cattle numbers at 0:21:36.420 --> 0:21:39.960 the same time. Like everyone, we've been looking for this 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.530