Neroli Brennan: This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have
Neroli Brennan: a good yarn about Ag life with producers who are
Neroli Brennan: having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers
Neroli Brennan: in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements,
Neroli Brennan: making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll get
Neroli Brennan: a laugh out of some of their stories, and also
Neroli Brennan: pick up some know- how along the way. I'm your
Neroli Brennan: host Neroli Brennan. Today we're catching up with Ambrose Doolan.
Neroli Brennan: Ambrose and his wife, Lisa, run a commercial Angus cattle enterprise,
Neroli Brennan: as well as a small stud bull operation, along with
Neroli Brennan: some fodder cropping on their property, Tirawundi near Coonabarabran. In
Neroli Brennan: this episode, Ambrose talks to us about the opportunities and
Neroli Brennan: challenges of family farming in the Central West, and shares
Neroli Brennan: with us how the failure of conventional farming in his
Neroli Brennan: environment 20 years ago led him to adopt minimum tillage,
Neroli Brennan: and then to become the first Australian importer of Seed
Neroli Brennan: Hawk Air Drills. You'll also hear how he lives by
Neroli Brennan: the philosophy of don't see a need without doing something
Neroli Brennan: about it. Which has led him to being very involved
Neroli Brennan: with community and local council where he now proudly acts
Neroli Brennan: as the mayor of the Warrumbungle Shire. Local Land Services
Neroli Brennan: mixed farming advisor, Rohan Leach, sat down with Ambrose over
Neroli Brennan: a cuppa for this chat at Tirawundi.
Rohan Leach: Good day, listeners. Today I'm with one of Coonabarabran's most well-
Rohan Leach: known characters, Ambrose Doolan. Ambrose, welcome to the Seeds for Success podcast.
Ambrose Doolan: Good afternoon, Rohan. Thanks for coming.
Rohan Leach: Ambrose, I'd like to start off by getting you to
Rohan Leach: tell the listeners a little bit about your operation here
Rohan Leach: at Tirawundi.
Ambrose Doolan: Yeah, certainly. Together with my wife, Lisa, we run mainly
Ambrose Doolan: cattle operation, Angus cattle. Commercial cattle is the main game,
Ambrose Doolan: but we do have an Angus stud called Isla. And
Ambrose Doolan: we take a great deal of delight in breeding some
Ambrose Doolan: nice bulls and some nice cows. We do a bit
Ambrose Doolan: of farming mainly for oats for the winter to fatten
Ambrose Doolan: our cattle and the odd bit of grain, bit of
Ambrose Doolan: canola just depending on how the season's going.
Rohan Leach: And how many bulls do you put up?
Ambrose Doolan: It'll be just over 30 this year. We kicked off
Ambrose Doolan: breeding them many years ago and just a few for
Ambrose Doolan: our own use. And then the neighbors used to buy
Ambrose Doolan: a couple. And then we had enough to hold a
Ambrose Doolan: small sale with about the 30. I think we've got
Ambrose Doolan: 70 coming along for next year. The numbers starting to
Ambrose Doolan: build up a little bit. That's where Lisa, she's just
Ambrose Doolan: off to give those a bit of a mix there
Ambrose Doolan: now. The oats is a little bit behind where we
Ambrose Doolan: should be this year, so week or two's time they'll
Ambrose Doolan: be able to go onto the oats, but we're just giving them a bit of a
Ambrose Doolan: hand in the meantime to keep them going.
Rohan Leach: Driving in this morning, it's Coonabarabran's looking pretty dry, isn't it?
Ambrose Doolan: We'd like it to be a bit better than it is. We're a
Ambrose Doolan: bit less than we normally would be. And then a bit of
Ambrose Doolan: a blue on my part. We weren't ready to go.
Ambrose Doolan: And when it was time to sow the oats back in February,
Ambrose Doolan: we had a couple of jobs to do on the
Ambrose Doolan: Cedar. And great friend of the farmer in our part
Ambrose Doolan: of the world is Bob Freeborn, who listeners would all
Ambrose Doolan: know and love. And he's always been very strong on
Ambrose Doolan: that. Some years you'd just get one chance to put
Ambrose Doolan: the oats in and if you miss it, you're in for
Ambrose Doolan: a tough winter. And we did and we are so
Ambrose Doolan: we'll promise not to make that mistake again.
Rohan Leach: That's it. Your timeliness of operation's so important. It's important
Rohan Leach: with livestock and sheep particularly, but in cropping I just
Rohan Leach: can't seem to stress enough to some growers how important
Rohan Leach: it is to get your sprays on time, get your
Rohan Leach: seed in on time.
Ambrose Doolan: That's right. And then that old fall of rain makes
Ambrose Doolan: us look like good operators too, which we just haven't
Ambrose Doolan: been able to jag this year.
Rohan Leach: That's it. An inch of rain at the right time makes
Rohan Leach: a difference between a good farmer and a bad farmer. What
Rohan Leach: are your soil types here and at your Tirawundi?
Ambrose Doolan: Well, we've got a bit of everything. Closer to the
Ambrose Doolan: river, we've got some sort of sandier loams. A bit
Ambrose Doolan: further away, you'd either red soils, probably the predominantly red
Ambrose Doolan: soil we have here. And 50%, 25% sandy loams and the other
Ambrose Doolan: 25% of chocolatey brown stuff. Fair bit of stone. That's
Ambrose Doolan: what Tirawundi means, rows of standing stones. We've got a
Ambrose Doolan: bit of rock in our country. And you can just
Ambrose Doolan: see this year that lighter country with the lighter falls
Ambrose Doolan: of rain that we've been having, it's kicking a bit
Ambrose Doolan: of a go where the heavy country's not.
Rohan Leach: You did point out that to me and the difference
Rohan Leach: is chalk and cheese this year.
Ambrose Doolan: It is. Yeah.
Rohan Leach: And so the pastures on your place, is it majority
Rohan Leach: improved country or is it you've got a fair bit of
Rohan Leach: native pasture?
Ambrose Doolan: All top dressed. We've just been a bit behind where
Ambrose Doolan: we should be with our fertilizer the last couple of
Ambrose Doolan: years, but that's again a legacy of our mate, Mr.
Ambrose Doolan: Freeborn. He really pushed that onto our district, how you
Ambrose Doolan: can turn light soils into really productive country by the
Ambrose Doolan: use of fertilizer. And in conjunction with that, we were
Ambrose Doolan: consol lovegrass on our lighter country and later years we
Ambrose Doolan: moved on to more digit, which we think is a
Ambrose Doolan: better grass. And lucerne's been a big part of our
Ambrose Doolan: job here over the years and that's got a bit
Ambrose Doolan: behind in those dry years. We lost a few paddocks
Ambrose Doolan: of lucerne, so it's up to us now to get
Ambrose Doolan: on and plan a bit more pasture than we have
Ambrose Doolan: done. And to that end, we're just doing a bit
Ambrose Doolan: of quite a big program subdividing a few of our
Ambrose Doolan: paddocks. They're a bit too big. And that'll allow us
Ambrose Doolan: to get on and pasture improve those paddocks. And then
Ambrose Doolan: graze them a bit more efficiently rather than setting them
Ambrose Doolan: on there and setting the cattle on then leaving them
Ambrose Doolan: for too long.
Rohan Leach: How big's too big? How big are you cutting them
Rohan Leach: down to?
Ambrose Doolan: Well, the paddock that the fellows are in there at the minute,
Ambrose Doolan: there's 128 hectares of cultivation and then some big rocky
Ambrose Doolan: knobs. There's probably might be 160 hectares in the paddock
Ambrose Doolan: and we are cutting that into four. And then the
Ambrose Doolan: next job there's another paddock, there's 170 hectares that we've
Ambrose Doolan: got into oats. And there's probably another 40 hectares of
Ambrose Doolan: rocky knobs and railway line and bits and pieces there.
Ambrose Doolan: That one, we'll cut that into five or six. Then
Ambrose Doolan: you don't have to put on five or 600 head
Ambrose Doolan: of cattle in one mob. And then if you want
Ambrose Doolan: the big ones out, you've got to go through all
Ambrose Doolan: of them where if we can draft them, put them
Ambrose Doolan: on and have big little and small heifers and steers
Ambrose Doolan: run the joint a bit more efficiently than we have been.
Rohan Leach: Is the terrain here pretty mountainous or is it more
Rohan Leach: gentle slopes?
Ambrose Doolan: It's slopey. Anything along the river's flat. And then as
Ambrose Doolan: you get up a bit we have some gentle slopes. Yeah.
Rohan Leach: And does that make any headaches for fencing?
Ambrose Doolan: No, not too bad. I did ask the people giving
Ambrose Doolan: us a hand with that and they said, " Oh, no, this
Ambrose Doolan: is good here compared to other places like Coolah," so
Ambrose Doolan: they're happy enough. It's all good.
Rohan Leach: It sounds like you've got a pretty summer rainfall dominant
Rohan Leach: system with premier digit and consol and lucerne. Have you
Rohan Leach: got any winter growing varieties or species that you go for?
Ambrose Doolan: Oh, just the sub clovers and arrowleaf and things like that
Ambrose Doolan: that we put into the mix. That's been our mainstay.
Ambrose Doolan: And in a normal year, looks after us pretty well.
Ambrose Doolan: Just a bit tougher this year, so lagging behind where
Ambrose Doolan: they would normally be.
Rohan Leach: It sounds like you're a bit more focused on your
Rohan Leach: livestock than your cropping enterprises. Why is that?
Ambrose Doolan: Well I think that's where the money is for us
Ambrose Doolan: here. We used to do quite a bit of farming,
Ambrose Doolan: but I think it's probably better to leave it to
Ambrose Doolan: folks like our son, Mick's, out there where it's flatter
Ambrose Doolan: and you can get a bit of a go on.
Ambrose Doolan: Where if here, if you're not going up a hill,
Ambrose Doolan: you're going down a hill. And it's just a matter
Ambrose Doolan: of there's just only so many hours in the day. We are
Ambrose Doolan: quite busy with the number of cattle that we run.
Ambrose Doolan: We've got a full dance card most days.
Rohan Leach: It's just more of a soil type and climate selection.
Ambrose Doolan: And a bit of lifestyle choice too, Rowan. We are busy
Ambrose Doolan: enough with the cattle. It's the farming can take all
Ambrose Doolan: of December up if you've got wet harvest and things
Ambrose Doolan: like that, things you need to be doing. And so
Ambrose Doolan: we've just made a conscious choice to be more livestock
Ambrose Doolan: and less farming.
Rohan Leach: Now you've touched on it there briefly. Your son, Mick,
Rohan Leach: who has also been on the Seeds for Success podcast,
Rohan Leach: what does he think about his father following in his
Rohan Leach: footsteps coming on today?
Ambrose Doolan: Well, we can probably blame him, but Lisa and I,
Ambrose Doolan: we're very lucky. We've got two children, there's Mick and
Ambrose Doolan: their daughter, Emily, and they both followed us into the
Ambrose Doolan: farming caper. Mick and Pip are out at Canable. And
Ambrose Doolan: Emma and Joe are at a lovely block next door
Ambrose Doolan: to our other place. And they're all involved in what we
Ambrose Doolan: do here and it's very special and we are very lucky that
Ambrose Doolan: they're a part of what we do. And that was
Ambrose Doolan: one thing during the dry weather in 2018 and 19, it was
Ambrose Doolan: pretty solid here. That's all we did for two years
Ambrose Doolan: was feed things. And it'd be easy to get down in
Ambrose Doolan: the dumps and think, " This is always us." But one
Ambrose Doolan: thing I really was conscious of how lucky a fellow is
Ambrose Doolan: to have his family interested in doing the same thing
Ambrose Doolan: and we're all doing it together. That's how we were
Ambrose Doolan: able to get through a pretty tough time as a
Ambrose Doolan: unit. And hopefully I'm not launching into another one now.
Rohan Leach: Yeah, fingers crossed for that. It's a pretty privileged position
Rohan Leach: that a lot of farming families are in to be able
Rohan Leach: to work and see their family every day and being
Rohan Leach: the business. How have you found working with your son
Rohan Leach: and daughter? How has the dynamic been there?
Ambrose Doolan: Oh, it's been good. I wouldn't have had crosswords with
Ambrose Doolan: Emily when she was here full time more than a
Ambrose Doolan: couple of times really. Only a couple of arguments, lost
Ambrose Doolan: them all because she knows what she's talking about. And
Ambrose Doolan: similarly with Mick, he's a good man. And so no,
Ambrose Doolan: it's been good and I think if everyone gets a
Ambrose Doolan: chance to have a say and their views are listened
Ambrose Doolan: to and taken board of, I think that it seems
Ambrose Doolan: to work. I don't know, we seem to muddle through.
Ambrose Doolan: We get by. My dad didn't want me to be
Ambrose Doolan: a farmer and I can see why at times because
Ambrose Doolan: it is, it can be tough. And he said, " Oh,
Ambrose Doolan: just go and do something else." But then when I said to him, " What
Ambrose Doolan: do you think if I come back and work with
Ambrose Doolan: you when we finish up at school?" And we both
Ambrose Doolan: went to the same school down there in Bathurst when
Ambrose Doolan: I said to him, " Can I come back and work
Ambrose Doolan: with you when I finish school?" And then he just said, "
Ambrose Doolan: Well, that'd be good." And that's as it got. Here we are
Ambrose Doolan: 40 years later. And I think it'll continue on, but
Ambrose Doolan: all the grandkids are pretty interested in what we do
Ambrose Doolan: too, what their parents do, what their grandparents do. That's
Ambrose Doolan: something that will continue on.
Rohan Leach: Going into your Isla stud operation, what are the genetics
Rohan Leach: based off?
Ambrose Doolan: Initially we bought a couple of cows from Milamura be 20 years
Ambrose Doolan: ago now. Mick was still at school so we went
Ambrose Doolan: down and bought a few cows there and we bred
Ambrose Doolan: up a little bit from there. And then a couple
Ambrose Doolan: of other studs as they were selling out and they
Ambrose Doolan: sold all their stock. We went and bought a few
Ambrose Doolan: cows here and a few cows there. Usually if we're
Ambrose Doolan: getting some extra genetics in these days we buy some
Ambrose Doolan: embryos, but we've bought a couple of nice heifers and
Ambrose Doolan: a couple of nice cows off again, Milamura and some
Ambrose Doolan: their progeny from other places, Brook Lana. And it gives
Ambrose Doolan: us a lot of pleasure to be able to look
Ambrose Doolan: at a cow and then be able to purchase her
Ambrose Doolan: and then join her to something and then see those
Ambrose Doolan: calves come in the future. It really gives us a
Ambrose Doolan: lot of joy. And we'll sit here of an evening
Ambrose Doolan: when the new sires come out in the springtime and
Ambrose Doolan: different semen companies will have a video presentation that they'll
Ambrose Doolan: put on about all the new sires that are coming up
Ambrose Doolan: for this year. And Lisa and I'll sit in the
Ambrose Doolan: kitchen with a nice glass of red and just watch
Ambrose Doolan: those and take notes. And it's where people have simple
Ambrose Doolan: pleasures and that's as good as a good night out.
Rohan Leach: That's almost impossible to explain to people not from agricultural
Rohan Leach: backgrounds that the sense of enjoyment or satisfaction in breeding
Rohan Leach: animals or that farming other enterprises bring to agricultural people,
Rohan Leach: isn't it?
Ambrose Doolan: No, it is. It is really is wonderful. There's a horse over there that's
Ambrose Doolan: in fo to a pretty handy stallion that is the great-
Ambrose Doolan: granddaughter of one that I broke in when I first
Ambrose Doolan: left school. We've kept that and Mick and them rode the
Ambrose Doolan: progeny of that at Pony camp when they were kids.
Ambrose Doolan: And in the future their kids will be able to
Ambrose Doolan: ride the progeny of that when they go to pony camp. Well, they're going to
Ambrose Doolan: pony camp now. That's special and there's something in that.
Ambrose Doolan: That's what we do, what we do. It's not often
Ambrose Doolan: about the money, which is just as well sometimes, but
Ambrose Doolan: there's more to it than just the financial rewards. It's
Ambrose Doolan: all of that connection to what's gone before and what's
Ambrose Doolan: coming after. And we are very lucky to be in the middle
Ambrose Doolan: of it.
Rohan Leach: We've gotten very philosophical very early in this, Ambrose. I
Rohan Leach: like it. With your stud, what's your breeding objective?
Ambrose Doolan: What we are looking to do as us, we were just breeding bulls for our
Ambrose Doolan: own use to start with and now obviously want to sell them to some
Ambrose Doolan: other folks. But just functional cattle that easy birthing. Our
Ambrose Doolan: philosophy's there's no good fixating on how big a 600- day
Ambrose Doolan: weight is if they don't get through day one. That's you've
Ambrose Doolan: got to be able to good carving ability. And then
Ambrose Doolan: the other things we look for high growth after that.
Ambrose Doolan: A little bit of marbling, not too much, we want
Ambrose Doolan: some fats on their ribbon rump because we think that
Ambrose Doolan: aids with fertility. And then they're the figures we look
Ambrose Doolan: at. And then it's just the animal itself, that just
Ambrose Doolan: that shape that appeals. And not too big a mature
Ambrose Doolan: weight so that they're not eating you out of house
Ambrose Doolan: and home. And yeah, they've got to be able to
Ambrose Doolan: perform here. And the market we have been using for
Ambrose Doolan: our commercial cattle for a long time is the feedlot job. We're just
Ambrose Doolan: the characteristics that we want to sell our cattle to
Ambrose Doolan: the feedlot and they thereafter that growth and bit of marble and some yield
Ambrose Doolan: in the cattle. And just talking to the feedlot, JBS is
Ambrose Doolan: the main buyer of our cattle. They're happy enough with
Ambrose Doolan: what we do and they've got feedback that they give
Ambrose Doolan: to us and share with us that tells us we are on
Ambrose Doolan: the right track. We'll just keep muddling along, poking along
Ambrose Doolan: the way we're going.
Rohan Leach: Sounds good. I mentioned before that you're pretty well known
Rohan Leach: in the Coona District. Why would that be?
Ambrose Doolan: Lived here all my life, I suppose. Just a couple
Ambrose Doolan: of years away at school and then back here to
Ambrose Doolan: work on the farm and been here ever since. I
Ambrose Doolan: think what you're dabbling at is I've got the...
Rohan Leach: You have picked up that I'm angling. Yeah.
Ambrose Doolan: Yeah. Currently the mayor of the Warrumbungle Shire, which is a
Ambrose Doolan: great honor and a great privilege. That's a job with a
Ambrose Doolan: big responsibility and it adds a fair bit to the workload. But
Ambrose Doolan: so far I've got the forbearance and support of Lisa
Ambrose Doolan: and everyone else here who chips in and covers for
Ambrose Doolan: me when I'm tangled up with council duties.
Rohan Leach: Yeah. How have you found being a counselor?
Ambrose Doolan: It's great. Yeah, there's a lot you can contribute so
Ambrose Doolan: that you can hopefully brings some improvements to our community,
Ambrose Doolan: but it's a pretty stressful job too at times. We've had
Ambrose Doolan: different issues that have confronted the council and I've just thought
Ambrose Doolan: of times, " Geez, why am I tangled up in this? This
Ambrose Doolan: is just, I've got enough stress at home without this."
Ambrose Doolan: But it is good if you can navigate your way
Ambrose Doolan: through those things which we haven't been able to do
Ambrose Doolan: so far and get a good result. That's satisfying, that's
Ambrose Doolan: important to get an outcome that will benefit our community.
Rohan Leach: Obviously there's a big time commitment there. How do you
Rohan Leach: find the balance between your own farming business and serving
Rohan Leach: the community?
Ambrose Doolan: Well, technology's a great help here these days. Since the
Ambrose Doolan: COVID, a lot of meetings that would've been face- to-
Ambrose Doolan: face and our Zoom. I can do those in the
Ambrose Doolan: tractor spraying in the cattle yards. You just got to
Ambrose Doolan: remember when you're doing them in the cattle yards to
Ambrose Doolan: get the mute right. And when you're...
Rohan Leach: Not swearing at dogs or workers or
Ambrose Doolan: Well that's right. The odd word might pop out at the
Ambrose Doolan: black devils when they're not cooperating. You don't need that
Ambrose Doolan: broadcast to all and sundry down the line.
Rohan Leach: What are Lisa's thoughts on your involvement in council?
Ambrose Doolan: Mix is probably, mix would be a good way. I know in 2018 there was
Ambrose Doolan: an election for the mayor of the council then, so I
Ambrose Doolan: became a councilor in 2016. In 2018 there was an election
Ambrose Doolan: and Lisa said to me, because we were in a
Ambrose Doolan: world of pain with the drought in '18 and she
Ambrose Doolan: did say, " Do not come home from this meeting as
Ambrose Doolan: the mayor or there'll be trouble." I took my advice
Ambrose Doolan: there and then got the mayor's job in 2020. And then
Ambrose Doolan: there was an election in 2021 for all the counselors
Ambrose Doolan: again. And as luck would have it was on Lisa's
Ambrose Doolan: birthday. And she did say to me that I could
Ambrose Doolan: give her no finer present than if my name wasn't
Ambrose Doolan: on the ballot paper. But anyway, I managed to get
Ambrose Doolan: the okay and put my hand up again. And was
Ambrose Doolan: lucky to be reelected as a counselor and then in
Ambrose Doolan: turn reelected as the mayor.
Rohan Leach: You must be very persuasive then if you can convince
Rohan Leach: others that maybe council is for you in fact.
Ambrose Doolan: I don't know if persuasive is the word, but I'm just lucky that I've got
Ambrose Doolan: a good off- sider in it's a good game as
Ambrose Doolan: we're discussing the farming game and it's nice to have
Ambrose Doolan: all our family there. But there are times and it's pretty
Ambrose Doolan: tough. Those last couple of years were pretty tough and '18
Ambrose Doolan: and '19. And I'm very lucky to have someone who likes
Ambrose Doolan: being a farmer and is good at it too. And
Ambrose Doolan: understands that there are good times and there are sometimes that are
Ambrose Doolan: pretty tough. And we're not a bad team.
Rohan Leach: That's really nice. Mate, you've got a big focus on
Rohan Leach: community. Why do you see that as important in a rural setting?
Ambrose Doolan: Oh, well, it's not that many of us out this
Ambrose Doolan: part of the world, Rowan. We're pretty lucky in our part of the world that people do hook in
Ambrose Doolan: and help in the community. And that's an example from
Ambrose Doolan: both of my parents who are both very community- minded
Ambrose Doolan: people, mom especially. And it's just following on from what they
Ambrose Doolan: did, which is don't see a need without doing something
Ambrose Doolan: about it. That's the way we were brought up. And
Ambrose Doolan: that's just continued on here. Whether it's involvement with the
Ambrose Doolan: kids with the pony club, what they're doing or junior
Ambrose Doolan: rugby or senior rugby when I was playing that. And I
Ambrose Doolan: was involved with Cooinda, which is our aged care retirement
Ambrose Doolan: village in town here for 20 years. And what I
Ambrose Doolan: always liked about that was it was set up by,
Ambrose Doolan: I think it was the Presbyterian minister originally kicked it
Ambrose Doolan: off because his mother- in- law had to leave town
Ambrose Doolan: to get some care. And I thought, "Well, this is not on." They
Ambrose Doolan: set up that and some old farmers and ministers and that
Ambrose Doolan: got in and set up this wonderful organization we got
Ambrose Doolan: in town here. And at the minute it's 3% of the
Ambrose Doolan: town works there and 3% of the town lives there.
Ambrose Doolan: It's a big part of our community this Cooinda. And
Ambrose Doolan: it's got everything you need, whether it's just independent living
Ambrose Doolan: or dementia specific or nursing home hostel. And what I
Ambrose Doolan: liked about it in the early days was that everybody
Ambrose Doolan: got the same amount of care. If you've got some
Ambrose Doolan: money, you've got some assets, well they would like to invest
Ambrose Doolan: those assets and take the interest while you are living
Ambrose Doolan: there. Your family get most of that, nearly all of
Ambrose Doolan: that back when you pass on. But if you are
Ambrose Doolan: someone in the community who doesn't have any money, you
Ambrose Doolan: get the same treatment, the same room, the same amount
Ambrose Doolan: of care as someone who does. And I just think that's
Ambrose Doolan: great. Things have changed a bit with the way the government regulations
Ambrose Doolan: in latter years, but that's always been a wonderful way
Ambrose Doolan: for our community to stick together so that you could
Ambrose Doolan: be a wonderful community person all your life. And then
Ambrose Doolan: at the end of your days when you need some
Ambrose Doolan: help, you have to go to Dubbo, you have to go to Mudgee or you have to
Ambrose Doolan: go somewhere else. Well, you don't have to do that anymore. You
Ambrose Doolan: can stay right here with all the people that love
Ambrose Doolan: you and they can come and look after you in your own
Ambrose Doolan: town. That's a good thing. And then just got tangled
Ambrose Doolan: up with council because a couple of people, my next
Ambrose Doolan: door neighbor cornered me here and said, " Why don't we run
Ambrose Doolan: for council?" And we did. And still in the job
Ambrose Doolan: seven years later.
Rohan Leach: I think you've outlined there with your Cooinda, the aged care
Rohan Leach: and just the importance that getting involved and the impact
Rohan Leach: that can have on a rural community. Probably nullifies my
Rohan Leach: question a bit, but do you think that the bush
Rohan Leach: is slowly dying?
Ambrose Doolan: No, our population here is static, so I suppose that's
Ambrose Doolan: not dying. I think we've had a couple of people,
Ambrose Doolan: especially in our business in the farming business, we were
Ambrose Doolan: pretty lucky that my friends' children, they follow their parents
Ambrose Doolan: into the farming as well. we've got a lot of
Ambrose Doolan: those coming back in the last few years and that's
Ambrose Doolan: wonderful to see. I always took a great deal of
Ambrose Doolan: delight there. One of your previous people you did was
Ambrose Doolan: my mate Harry Clifton. And I was just thinking on Saturday I
Ambrose Doolan: couldn't get into watch the rugby, I was just busy
Ambrose Doolan: here feeding cattle. And Harry was doing the commentating with
Ambrose Doolan: another good mate, DJ. But listening to the footy, though
Ambrose Doolan: a lot of the names are calling out were sons
Ambrose Doolan: of blokes I played footy with. And that's really special
Ambrose Doolan: too, to hear those fellows good names go around as
Ambrose Doolan: they're running around and I can just think about all the good fun times
Ambrose Doolan: I had playing with their dads. Yeah. I think just in our part
Ambrose Doolan: of the world, I think we're holding our own rather
Ambrose Doolan: than dying. I think we are holding our own and that's a
Ambrose Doolan: good thing to see that young people want to come
Ambrose Doolan: back and give agriculture a crack. That is great.
Rohan Leach: Just going into the next topic, I find it probably
Rohan Leach: interesting that you've got such a big focus on your
Rohan Leach: livestock enterprise, whereas you've actually got a bit of an
Rohan Leach: interesting aspect to your farming in Seed Hawk Planters. Been
Rohan Leach: given a bit of background info that you know a
Rohan Leach: thing or two about them. Why is that?
Ambrose Doolan: Well, we used to import them, Lisa and I for a while
Ambrose Doolan: before they set up their own franchise out here and
Ambrose Doolan: kept us on. We got into it a bit accidentally.
Ambrose Doolan: Be 20 years ago this year, after dry time, we
Ambrose Doolan: had all our country farmed up conventionally. And as I
Ambrose Doolan: was saying, it's a bit hilly here. And we just finished planting in
Ambrose Doolan: April 2003 I think it was. And we had five
Ambrose Doolan: inches of rain one night, dirt up against the fence,
Ambrose Doolan: complete mess. And I thought it was really quite upsetting to go and
Ambrose Doolan: look at that and I thought, " Well, we can't afford
Ambrose Doolan: to have that keep happening, we need to change the
Ambrose Doolan: way we do things. So we need to get into
Ambrose Doolan: this direct drilling caper." And we looked around for a
Ambrose Doolan: planter that might be suitable and we'd go to Agquip and we went
Ambrose Doolan: to Orange and we went to all the fieldos. And we
Ambrose Doolan: just couldn't see something that we thought we could bring
Ambrose Doolan: home here to our hard setting rocky dirt that we
Ambrose Doolan: wouldn't break. And as luck would have it, we were
Ambrose Doolan: just driving up the paddock one day and we noticed
Ambrose Doolan: our neighbor was using a little 10- foot wide Air
Ambrose Doolan: Seat and it just had the tines on or the openers
Ambrose Doolan: on it that I'd imagine that that's what we needed.
Ambrose Doolan: I spoke to him and I said, " Where did you get
Ambrose Doolan: this thing from? This is fantastic." And he put me
Ambrose Doolan: onto the soil conservation down at Wellington. And so I contacted
Ambrose Doolan: them and I said, " Where did you get this thing from?"
Ambrose Doolan: And they put me onto Seed Hawk in Canada. We
Ambrose Doolan: sent a few emails to these characters over there and
Ambrose Doolan: nobody replied. Then I worked out if I made it
Ambrose Doolan: overseas phone call before, worked out how to ring Canada and
Ambrose Doolan: gave these cowboys a phone call over there and spoke
Ambrose Doolan: for best part of an hour to them on the
Ambrose Doolan: phone. And I thought Lisa will have a fit when
Ambrose Doolan: she sees the phone bill, but it was only seven
Ambrose Doolan: bucks I think as it turned out. Anyway but they said, "
Ambrose Doolan: No, you're too far away. We don't want to sell
Ambrose Doolan: you anything, we've got all we need here." I would ring
Ambrose Doolan: them every week and pretty pleased them with persuasion that
Ambrose Doolan: you were talking about before. Eventually they did agree to
Ambrose Doolan: sell us one. There was a bit of mucking around
Ambrose Doolan: in getting the first one through customs and quarantine, which
Ambrose Doolan: didn't need to be. It was just dealing with the wrong people.
Ambrose Doolan: Eventually when you deal with the right people, there's some
Ambrose Doolan: people in the world that want to help and some
Ambrose Doolan: people that don't. And when you find the right people, eventually
Ambrose Doolan: we got it was only four phone calls and you'd
Ambrose Doolan: get a machine from Saskatchewan to Coonabarabran, four phone calls.
Ambrose Doolan: Simple when you talk to the right people. But anyway, we
Ambrose Doolan: got the first one delivered down in Sydney and the
Ambrose Doolan: Wolfie people gave me a call and said, "Are you Ambrose Dulan?" And I said, "
Ambrose Doolan: Yeah, mate, that's me." He said, " Do you know how
Ambrose Doolan: many parts are in this container?" And I said, "I don't know, there's got to
Ambrose Doolan: be a few." And he said, " There's got to be
Ambrose Doolan: 10,000." And there was a few salty swear words thrown in.
Ambrose Doolan: And he said, " We are not unpacking this. We're going
Ambrose Doolan: to send you up the container and you unpack it."
Ambrose Doolan: And I said, " Well, I've only got a curtain sided
Ambrose Doolan: truck down there." And he said, " Well, send him away and
Ambrose Doolan: get someone with container pins." Anyway, the container came up
Ambrose Doolan: here and there wasn't two bits of steel welded together.
Ambrose Doolan: They just as they cut it all out in Canada
Ambrose Doolan: and threw it in the container. A local bloke here,
Ambrose Doolan: Richard Murphy, gave us the hand to weld it up and
Ambrose Doolan: paint it up and we got it going. And then the first year
Ambrose Doolan: that we used it was a dry autumn and our
Ambrose Doolan: crop came up pretty well. And then our next door neighbors
Ambrose Doolan: noticed how well it came up and they said, " Can
Ambrose Doolan: you get us one of those?" And then we did
Ambrose Doolan: a bit of contracting work for a fellow to help
Ambrose Doolan: pay the machine off and the farmer liked it. He said, "
Ambrose Doolan: How much to leave it here?" Accidentally we got into
Ambrose Doolan: selling them that way. We left that one there, sold
Ambrose Doolan: that to him and sold one to the neighbors and
Ambrose Doolan: then went on from there.
Rohan Leach: It's a fascinating story. I would like to hope that
Rohan Leach: the new ones that you get in aren't in 10,000 bits and the importation process is a bit more streamlined.
Ambrose Doolan: We're a bit removed from that now. We don't have
Ambrose Doolan: to do that. They come in mob called Land Power
Ambrose Doolan: bring them in now, and Joe, the son- in- law
Ambrose Doolan: sells them now. Yeah. He just ordered and it comes
Ambrose Doolan: complete. We did suggest to Seed Hawk that why don't you
Ambrose Doolan: put them together like a big Meccano set? And they said, "
Ambrose Doolan: Well, you are the only person we export them to.
Ambrose Doolan: Why would we change just for you?" And then mob
Ambrose Doolan: called Vaderstad from Sweden came along and bought half of
Ambrose Doolan: their business and they wanted to sell them to Europe.
Ambrose Doolan: Then they had other customers that wanted them. They did
Ambrose Doolan: make them. That's how we got stuck into that. When
Ambrose Doolan: we were talking about buying the machine back in 2003,
Ambrose Doolan: I did say to Lisa, " Buying a new machine's a bit
Ambrose Doolan: of a big step," and her words were, " Let's go
Ambrose Doolan: for it." So we did. We bought that thing. in the future
Ambrose Doolan: when we'd have 10 machines ordered and four had only
Ambrose Doolan: been delivered and three weren't built. And it's all stress to
Ambrose Doolan: get them done before planting started, I'll always throw that
Ambrose Doolan: back at her and say, " This is all your fault. If you hadn't
Ambrose Doolan: have said, let's go for it, we wouldn't have had
Ambrose Doolan: all this trouble." But it was good to be able
Ambrose Doolan: to build the bigger ones. The bigger ones, the 80
Ambrose Doolan: footers they're eight meters wide down the road, which isn't
Ambrose Doolan: a problem in Canada because the agricultural machinery gets priority
Ambrose Doolan: on the roads, so they don't care how wide it is.
Ambrose Doolan: But it's a bit of a trick down here. Eight
Ambrose Doolan: meters, you're in a world of pain in Australia. We would
Ambrose Doolan: build those on farm. Often I'd be away for weeks
Ambrose Doolan: at a time and Lisa kept the wheels of industry
Ambrose Doolan: ticking along here. And we'd be home for the weekends
Ambrose Doolan: and get a bit of farming done or what are
Ambrose Doolan: we doing and then go back and build them some
Ambrose Doolan: more when we were trying to get on a bit.
Ambrose Doolan: And the smaller ones, we'd build those here and just
Ambrose Doolan: put them on a truck and deliver them. Mick was
Ambrose Doolan: telling me when he left uni, he went to Canada
Ambrose Doolan: for a year, worked on a farm over there and they
Ambrose Doolan: wanted to shift their windrower to their other property, which
Ambrose Doolan: is a 100ks of oil or something like that. Mick
Ambrose Doolan: asked them where the comb trailer was and they just thought that
Ambrose Doolan: was hilarious. They said, " What do you want that for?
Ambrose Doolan: Just 30 foot wide front, just drive it down the road.
Ambrose Doolan: What do you want a comb trailer for?" Oh, geez.
Rohan Leach: You've talked through, they're a pretty versatile, bulletproof machine, that's
Rohan Leach: why you've used them on your hard and tough soils
Rohan Leach: and conditions. What are some of the other benefits of
Rohan Leach: the machine?
Ambrose Doolan: Well, it's just ability, well it'll dig, so it has to be
Ambrose Doolan: able to dig, but the contour following of the ground. Each
Ambrose Doolan: opener can travel up and down 20 inches probably so it can follow
Ambrose Doolan: the contour of the ground. And then the wings on
Ambrose Doolan: the machines, they've got a ground following ability too. Between
Ambrose Doolan: the openers going up and down and the wings following
Ambrose Doolan: the contour, if you want to plant at 10 mills deep,
Ambrose Doolan: she's 10 mils deep right across the whole machine. That's
Ambrose Doolan: what it's good about, the accuracy of where it can
Ambrose Doolan: place the seed. And then also the thing that I
Ambrose Doolan: always used to tell people, we don't sell machines, we
Ambrose Doolan: sell emergents. We get stuff to come up and was I
Ambrose Doolan: saying to you before, we made a bit of a
Ambrose Doolan: blue this year not being ready to jump when the
Ambrose Doolan: oats was ready to go back in February. I remember
Ambrose Doolan: planting all of our oats on the lease country one
Ambrose Doolan: year and it all came up nice and early. And
Ambrose Doolan: a lot of my mates put a bit in but
Ambrose Doolan: then thought it was a bit dry. We had it
Ambrose Doolan: all in. And if you think about waiting six weeks
Ambrose Doolan: until the next rain came, that's 42 days. If you've
Ambrose Doolan: got a beast putting on a kilo a day at
Ambrose Doolan: say four bucks, that's 28 bucks, is it, a week.
Ambrose Doolan: Six times that, it's 150 bucks. That's proper money. You've got
Ambrose Doolan: to really take that opportunity. That what we're saying there
Ambrose Doolan: before, time is king, you've got to get it in.
Ambrose Doolan: If you can get it in and up where other
Ambrose Doolan: people aren't, that's a big difference. I know we sold a
Ambrose Doolan: machine to a fellow, we became pretty good friends with him
Ambrose Doolan: over time. He didn't know me from a hole in
Ambrose Doolan: the head to start with, but we sold him a
Ambrose Doolan: 60 footer down south of here and he had 7,
Ambrose Doolan: 000 acres of farming. Two blocks 100ks apart. He put
Ambrose Doolan: the first 4, 000 acres in all right. And then
Ambrose Doolan: he had a bit of tractor trouble. And only on
Ambrose Doolan: 20 mills of rain, he had a bit of tractor
Ambrose Doolan: trouble. The time he got to the other 3000 acres,
Ambrose Doolan: it was a month after the 20 mills. I went down and had a look and
Ambrose Doolan: I said, " It'll come up. We'll just do a little bit." I said, "
Ambrose Doolan: No, put it all in. It'll be right. It'll come
Ambrose Doolan: up." And it came up so well that we had a
Ambrose Doolan: field day then and got people to come and have a
Ambrose Doolan: look. And the night of the field day there was
Ambrose Doolan: another inch of rain in the district. A lot of
Ambrose Doolan: people planted some more on that inch of rain six
Ambrose Doolan: weeks after he'd done his planting. And he told me that that 3,
Ambrose Doolan: 000 acres yielded 11 bags to the acre. It's a bit old school for
Ambrose Doolan: some of the young folks, but 11 bags to the acre.
Rohan Leach: A bit under a ton to the acre I think
Rohan Leach: is the conversion.
Ambrose Doolan: Yeah, that's the conversion. And the stuff that other people
Ambrose Doolan: planted on that rain in June, it went three bags.
Ambrose Doolan: He just said to me, " 3, 000 acres times an
Ambrose Doolan: extra eight bags is a free machine." He said, " You
Ambrose Doolan: gave me the machine, I paid for it one year."
Ambrose Doolan: That's nice when people can tell you something like that.
Rohan Leach: Is there any other situations that it's maybe not as
Rohan Leach: well suited to?
Ambrose Doolan: Oh, look, they've had their troubles with, they leapt into
Ambrose Doolan: some super technology with sectional control that was probably needed
Ambrose Doolan: to be workshopped a bit more, but they've got that
Ambrose Doolan: under wraps now and that's really quite good. That'll be
Ambrose Doolan: the next thing we'll go to with them with the
Ambrose Doolan: sectional control. Like every boom space sectional control now. If
Ambrose Doolan: you can do that with a planter.
Rohan Leach: With your seed and fertilizer.
Ambrose Doolan: Yeah. We've got a paddock up at the other block. The
Ambrose Doolan: boom spray makes it 110 hectares. The planter makes it 140. There's
Ambrose Doolan: 30 hectares that don't exist, but you're chucking 150 bucks
Ambrose Doolan: of fertilizer at it plus seed.
Rohan Leach: And then on those areas that you're double sowing, the
Rohan Leach: plant establishment is not what you want. It's twice as
Rohan Leach: thick. You could be looking at decreased yield there or
Rohan Leach: higher screenings in those areas.
Ambrose Doolan: Yeah, that's right. Or in a good year might be lodged, the
Ambrose Doolan: crop will lodge with extra fertilizers will tip over. It
Ambrose Doolan: might go too well. It's less than ideal. That's what
Ambrose Doolan: we have our eye on to do next is get
Ambrose Doolan: one of them with the sectional control. It's a good thing.
Ambrose Doolan: And we had a machine here that they got us to
Ambrose Doolan: trial that had finish the field. You can just tell
Ambrose Doolan: the control, set it up that when we finish this
Ambrose Doolan: paddock, I don't want any seed left in the box.
Ambrose Doolan: And it will say to you, " Okay, well if that's
Ambrose Doolan: the case you wanted 50 kilos to the hectare. We don't have
Ambrose Doolan: quite enough for that. We've got enough of 46." Oh,
Ambrose Doolan: okay, righto. We'll go at 46 and the box will be
Ambrose Doolan: empty when you finish the paddock. Rather than it's always think, "
Ambrose Doolan: Oh, look at this thing, I've got half a thing
Ambrose Doolan: to get rid of," or whatever.
Rohan Leach: Or run out when you've got three hectares left. Yeah,
Rohan Leach: no. That's very cool.
Ambrose Doolan: That's pretty cool. I do like the sound of that.
Rohan Leach: Yeah, cool. Ambrose, I've had an absolute cracker today. Before
Rohan Leach: we wrap up, my final question, I like to ask
Rohan Leach: our guests, what's the big issue in Australian ag at
Rohan Leach: the moment?
Ambrose Doolan: You hear a lot of people struggling to get people
Ambrose Doolan: to help on the farm, so that's big. We rely
Ambrose Doolan: pretty heavily on the people who work here with us
Ambrose Doolan: and we'd been strife if they weren't here. That's probably
Ambrose Doolan: a big issue where the next lot of people come
Ambrose Doolan: from. And I think that's something that we need to
Ambrose Doolan: be working on to tell people who live in the
Ambrose Doolan: city that it's pretty good out here. And you don't
Ambrose Doolan: have to be born on a farm to be involved
Ambrose Doolan: in agriculture. Mick's got some mates from school that done
Ambrose Doolan: pretty well in the agricultural field and they come from Sydney. But
Ambrose Doolan: wanted to be involved in agriculture and then found a
Ambrose Doolan: good career that they can do out here. I think
Ambrose Doolan: we need to work on our city cousins a bit
Ambrose Doolan: more, that it's all pretty good out here. And you
Ambrose Doolan: don't have to be fogging yourself six or 700 bucks
Ambrose Doolan: a week to rent somewhere. You can come out here and have
Ambrose Doolan: plenty of room and a bit more in your pocket than
Ambrose Doolan: you will do in Sydney. I think that's something.
Rohan Leach: Well, I think if with the powers of persuasion that
Rohan Leach: you've got, I think you are probably the right man
Rohan Leach: for the job, Ambrose. Ambrose, thanks so much for that.
Rohan Leach: I love that answer and thanks for coming on the Seeds for Success podcast. Right, mate. See you.
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