Neroli Brennan: Today's episode discusses mental health and suicide prevention. If you
Neroli Brennan: find this discussion upsetting or you feel you'd like more
Neroli Brennan: support with your mental health, please contact Lifeline on 13-11-
Neroli Brennan: 14 or the Mental Health Hotline on 1- 800- 011-
Neroli Brennan: 511. And please, go to our show notes where we
Neroli Brennan: have provided these links and more resources for your information.
Neroli Brennan: This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have
Neroli Brennan: a good yarn about ag life with producers who are
Neroli Brennan: having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers
Neroli Brennan: in New South Wales who are out there battling the
Neroli Brennan: elements, making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll
Neroli Brennan: get a laugh out of some of their stories, and
Neroli Brennan: also pick up some know- how along the way. I'm
Neroli Brennan: your host, Neroli Brennan. In this week's episode, we're reaching
Neroli Brennan: out to talk to one of the farmers you suggested
Neroli Brennan: through our Nominate a Mate campaign. In today's episode, we
Neroli Brennan: are catching up with John Murdoch from Bombala on the
Neroli Brennan: Southern Monaro. John farms in partnership with his wife and
Neroli Brennan: father in a mixed- farming business, consisting of merinos, first
Neroli Brennan: cross ewes, Angus cattle, and fodder cropping. As you'll hear
Neroli Brennan: today, John gives us a bit of an insight into
Neroli Brennan: farming in the Monaro and talks to us about his
Neroli Brennan: role as a previous chair and board member of Monaro
Neroli Brennan: Farming Systems Group. John talks through one of the major
Neroli Brennan: projects the group has managed in the Farming Forecaster network,
Neroli Brennan: and how that pasture prediction support tool has helped decision-
Neroli Brennan: making on his own farm. John is also an outspoken
Neroli Brennan: advocate for mental health amongst farmers, and gives us a
Neroli Brennan: candid insight into his own mental health battles as a
Neroli Brennan: result of farming pressures and the disasters he has faced.
Neroli Brennan: Local Land Services mixed farming advisor, Rohan Leach, reached out
Neroli Brennan: across the Monaro and caught up with John for this
Neroli Brennan: great chat.
Rohan Leach: G'day, listeners. Today I'm with another of our Nominate a Mate suggestions
Rohan Leach: from our audience, John Murdoch. John, welcome to the Seeds
Rohan Leach: for Success Podcast.
John Murdoch: Thanks, Rohan, for having me. I'm very happy to be here.
Rohan Leach: Mate, can I get you just to start off with
Rohan Leach: a bit of a rundown of your farm business?
John Murdoch: We're a mixed- grazing enterprise on the Southern Monaro. We
John Murdoch: operate on two properties, about 2, 500 hectares combined. We're about 75%
John Murdoch: sheep based in our DSEs with a merino ewe breeding base
John Murdoch: for the 50% to 60% to a border Leicester. And then, on the cattle
John Murdoch: side, the balance of the DSEs is an Angus breeding herd.
John Murdoch: And within that, a small seed stock production enterprise, which
John Murdoch: we run our genetics out of and supply a few
John Murdoch: other people with genetics as well. And we're working to
John Murdoch: actually shift that balance of DSEs to probably a greater
John Murdoch: weighting on cattle and bringing back the sheep numbers.
Rohan Leach: And is that just from a labor perspective or just the
Rohan Leach: margins aren't in sheep as much at the moment?
John Murdoch: I think like everyone, the last couple of years have
John Murdoch: been challenging with sheep. But it's not just labor, it's
John Murdoch: the rise of input costs as a whole. And we're
John Murdoch: just finding that we can run the cattle DSEs much
John Murdoch: more competitively against the sheep where it was difficult to
John Murdoch: do. The 10 years prior, the sheep were so profitable,
John Murdoch: the cattle really took a backseat. But the last two
John Murdoch: years have made us look at our farming system. My
John Murdoch: dad's retired and stepping back as a labor unit. And
John Murdoch: yeah, I found it a lot more challenging with the
John Murdoch: existing labor myself. And so, part of it is obviously
John Murdoch: profitability driven and other is probably sanity and lifestyle driven
John Murdoch: as well.
Rohan Leach: Absolutely. I know a lot of people in recent years
Rohan Leach: have probably gotten sick of chasing fly in sheep and
Rohan Leach: just the general input cost, like you mentioned, which is
Rohan Leach: a real shame because they're such a integral part of
Rohan Leach: rural communities. But you've really mentioned there and a focus
Rohan Leach: on your DSE rating. Yeah, what sort of DSE capacity
Rohan Leach: per hectare is a lot of your country? I'm assuming
Rohan Leach: there's probably a big mix of soil types and those
Rohan Leach: sorts of things that influence that.
John Murdoch: Our main farm's 100% basalt. And that's a low cost,
John Murdoch: probably seven to eight DSEs, pushing a lot higher on
John Murdoch: the river flat country. And then, you shift out to our southern
John Murdoch: block, which is granite and then a bit higher rainfall. It's
John Murdoch: 10 to 12 DSE per hectare country out there.
Rohan Leach: And so, what are the the pasture types across some
Rohan Leach: of your soils?
John Murdoch: For those that haven't ever traveled to the Monaro, our
John Murdoch: hilly country is very naturalized, so full of native pollers and stipers. And
John Murdoch: then into the improved country on the basalt we had
John Murdoch: a traditional fillera space pasture system. We've in our system
John Murdoch: use on the basalt, particularly lucerne as our primary improved
John Murdoch: pasture mix, whether they're straight stands or in a mix.
John Murdoch: And then on the granite country, which is more acidic,
John Murdoch: we use fescues and short to medium term rye grasses.
Rohan Leach: You're carrying your breeding stock on those grass pastures and
Rohan Leach: finishing stock on the lucerne for example?
John Murdoch: Yeah, we run a pretty active pasture improvement program. We
John Murdoch: work on working probably 100 to 200 hectares a year and putting
John Murdoch: that through a fodder cropping rotation and then into a
John Murdoch: pasture. And that is the primary engine room for our
John Murdoch: lamb finishing. And with our steers we wean the steers,
John Murdoch: we wean in March, April and we actually winter them
John Murdoch: through on crop and target feedlot entry in August, September.
John Murdoch: If we come into a big spring then, then we
John Murdoch: have the option with those fodder crops to take those
John Murdoch: weaners onto to heavier, to kill weights. But that's how
John Murdoch: we juggle our feed gap is have some winter crops
John Murdoch: in particularly targeting the cattle and the Merino wether portion
John Murdoch: of our merino flock. We usually slaughter them after shearing
John Murdoch: them in July.
Rohan Leach: That's really good. I was interested in the system and
Rohan Leach: you've explained that pretty well, especially with timing and dates
Rohan Leach: and stuff there. What sort of fodder crops are you
Rohan Leach: using and do you grow any grain crops?
John Murdoch: We use wheat a lot through the winter and annual
John Murdoch: rye are our primary winter fodder crops. As well as
John Murdoch: that we're just using a lot more grazing canola as well. But
John Murdoch: the real bread and butter of our winter growth is in
John Murdoch: our wheat and annual rye so where we can still
John Murdoch: get some winter production. The Monaro is a very, very cold
John Murdoch: winter being the altitude we are. And so, most pasture
John Murdoch: types are fundamentally dormant through winter. We do get growth
John Murdoch: in those winter fodder crops help that system operate.
Rohan Leach: Yeah. You want to go into winter with the good bulk of standing
Rohan Leach: feed to draw on basically, and fodder crops are providing that?
John Murdoch: Yeah, look, I mean our rule of thumb, that's certainly for young
John Murdoch: stock. Our rule of thumb is if we're not winter feeding,
John Murdoch: supplementary feeding, particularly in our sheep, our sheep breeding, a new
John Murdoch: base, we probably don't have enough stock on once spring
John Murdoch: hits. We will have a winter feeding program every year.
John Murdoch: And that's targeting in lamb sheep and we scan all
John Murdoch: our breeding ewes. And so obviously trying to give the
John Murdoch: twin and multiples a more precise ration. And then sometimes
John Murdoch: we don't feed singles, sometimes we do. It depends what
John Murdoch: sort of autumn we've had.
Rohan Leach: How's the season shaping up this year on the Monaro?
Rohan Leach: By the way what's your closest town?
John Murdoch: Closest town is a little town called Bombala. Which our
John Murdoch: main farm's north of Bombala and we have a smaller
John Murdoch: satellite block, the granite block, which is south of Bombala.
John Murdoch: That's within 20 minutes, 25 minutes to drive from one
John Murdoch: farm to the other. Our closest major town that people
John Murdoch: know of would be Cooma.
Rohan Leach: Well, I think Bombala has actually rocketed to fame on
Rohan Leach: this latest season of Farmer Wants a wife. One of
Rohan Leach: the boys on there is enjoying himself with some lovely ladies.
John Murdoch: Yeah, I know Joe very well.
Rohan Leach: It's good to hear. Yeah, how's the season shaping up this
Rohan Leach: year, mate?
John Murdoch: The season has been like a light switch down here
John Murdoch: for the last 12 months. It's either been on or
John Murdoch: off. We had a very dry end to summer and
John Murdoch: then got a autumn break in April, start of April and
John Murdoch: we've had nothing since. And so now we're on a
John Murdoch: bit of a knife edge. We're getting to the end
John Murdoch: or very much at the end of our growing season, but
John Murdoch: we've still got soil temp. And any rain now would
John Murdoch: be of help. New established pastures are just sitting there
John Murdoch: with single leaves sticking up, looking very thirsty. And another
John Murdoch: drink on them would certainly help them get through winter.
Rohan Leach: And obviously lucerne, one of your main species is probably
Rohan Leach: switching off now, so hopefully onto the fodder crops soon.
John Murdoch: Yeah, that's right. I mean lucerne is, we just haven't
John Murdoch: had the consistent frosts. Lucerne is still producing a bit
John Murdoch: not significant growth rates, but we just still are carrying
John Murdoch: enough soil temp that we can get a little bit
John Murdoch: of growth. I mean I think we've only got probably
John Murdoch: another two weeks window before we're really shut down now,
John Murdoch: which is quite late for us. You'd think by the
John Murdoch: start of May where our growing season would be very
John Murdoch: much over, but this year we've just still got that
John Murdoch: soil moisture due to not having the runoff frost. Soil
John Murdoch: temperature, not soil moisture, unfortunately. I'd love to have the
John Murdoch: soil moisture.
Rohan Leach: Good to have both. Thanks for giving us the run
Rohan Leach: down on the block and how the season's shaping up.
Rohan Leach: I believe that you've been a previous chair of the
Rohan Leach: Monaro Farming systems group, is that right?
John Murdoch: Yes, that's correct. I spent about eight or nine years
John Murdoch: on the board with them and finished my time and
John Murdoch: I wasn't allowed to stay any longer.
Rohan Leach: They had to drag you kicking and screaming. Mate, can
Rohan Leach: you just tell us a bit about that group?
John Murdoch: Yeah, look, it's a fantastic group. It was based off the
John Murdoch: Birchip Cropping Group, but it was really looking at some
John Murdoch: pioneers before my time looked at the extension base and R&
John Murdoch: D base in our region and realized that there was
John Murdoch: a significant gap there, particularly with DPI flagging and then
John Murdoch: executing in terms of removing extension. That there was a
John Murdoch: need for some really focused Monaro- based R& D. A group
John Murdoch: of farmers essentially created the group and it was a membership-
John Murdoch: based group and it was supported by the federal government
John Murdoch: initially in terms of some funding for administration. And it
John Murdoch: just grew from strength to strength there through the engagement
John Murdoch: of its members and has really delivered some significant projects
John Murdoch: to the Monaro and state and to some extent federally
John Murdoch: with something like Farming Forecaster. It's a very progressive and forward-
John Murdoch: moving group.
Rohan Leach: Great that you've touched on one of my subjects there
Rohan Leach: that we will probably explore a little bit later, but
Rohan Leach: what sort of projects did it look at?
John Murdoch: It's done a significant amount of work and early in
John Murdoch: soil carbon, so we've got 10 years if not more,
John Murdoch: history of soil carbon on some of the sites across
John Murdoch: the Monaro. We've got some really accurate data. Well, robust
John Murdoch: data in the sense that over a long period of
John Murdoch: time around soil carbon, it's focused a lot on I
John Murdoch: guess productivity and profitability within farming systems. It set up
John Murdoch: benchmarking groups within the region and got really championed the
John Murdoch: balance between production profitability and sustainability, which was really the
John Murdoch: ethos of the group. You had to call that an A
John Murdoch: triple bottom line. We were really targeting things that did that.
Rohan Leach: And what was the sort of uptake in practice change
Rohan Leach: from? Have they really supported it and continue to do so
Rohan Leach: or was it a bit of a flash in the pan?
John Murdoch: No, if you look at looking at your business life
John Murdoch: cycle, it's got to maturity and it's stayed there. It
John Murdoch: hasn't declined. We set up one of our biggest events is the
John Murdoch: Soils Club. Every year everyone routinely goes out and sample
John Murdoch: tests paddocks and that is fed back into a soil database
John Murdoch: and all the participants get trends in their soil fertility
John Murdoch: reported back to them. But in combination to that, you've
John Murdoch: got experts each year coming down in December and talking
John Murdoch: around soil health and soil fertility and it's really matured.
John Murdoch: This is an example, matured. We're not just now talking
John Murdoch: sulfur, phosphorus, we're now onto micronutrients. It's really lifted and
John Murdoch: matured a group of producers and taken everyone along for
John Murdoch: the ride.
Rohan Leach: That's awesome. I love when farmers get nerdy about their
Rohan Leach: soils, so it's good to hear that things, it sounds
Rohan Leach: like it's going from strength to strength. Mate, we might
Rohan Leach: move on to the Farming Forecaster that you mentioned just
Rohan Leach: before. Yeah, obviously one of the originating projects from the
Rohan Leach: Monaro Farming Systems group. Can you explain what that project
Rohan Leach: or program does?
John Murdoch: Yes. We were always using the CSIRO model grass grow
John Murdoch: to run seasonal outlooks for our members on a quarterly
John Murdoch: basis to give a forecast of where the season was
John Murdoch: looking from a feed base. And where that evolved was
John Murdoch: that we saw the value of having soil moisture data
John Murdoch: to be able to add to that forecast. And so,
John Murdoch: initially it was set up within Monaro farming systems table
John Murdoch: and farming systems, I believe it was Holbrook Landcare and
John Murdoch: the CSIRO. And I believe LLS were involved too, that we
John Murdoch: decided to put together a network of these soil probes
John Murdoch: with grass grow farm models sitting on top of them.
John Murdoch: What you would get is real time soil moisture data
John Murdoch: and temperature driving a forward- looking fodder based forecast based
John Murdoch: on the pasture species and climate for that environment. And
John Murdoch: really, with the rollout of that, it started with about
John Murdoch: six or seven sites, it grew to 15. Now it's
John Murdoch: up to about 190 sites across New South Wales, Tasmania
John Murdoch: and WA. And looking, and I'm told to expand by
John Murdoch: another a hundred sites through New South Wales, Victoria and
John Murdoch: South Australia in the coming 12 months. And so what
John Murdoch: you're really getting there now is a significantly powerful seasonal
John Murdoch: modeling tool.
Rohan Leach: What do you use that modeling for? What sort of
Rohan Leach: decisions does it help you with?
John Murdoch: It is primarily a decision support tool. And so it's
John Murdoch: looking at, it's really flagging early where you are your
John Murdoch: trajectory into an uncomfortable situation or a situation of opportunity.
John Murdoch: It's if you are feeling like things are getting tight, you
John Murdoch: can look on your nearest probe or this probe that
John Murdoch: matches your farm system in terms of soil type. And
John Murdoch: get an indication of where the model in the next
John Murdoch: six months are looking like. And it can then be a decision
John Murdoch: support till to either, " I've got to start buying in
John Murdoch: feed." Or, " No, I think I'm okay. We've still got time.
John Murdoch: There's still a lot of upside there." And conversely, it's
John Murdoch: making timely decisions in trading opportunities when you may have
John Murdoch: a surplus of feed in your farm system, which you're
John Murdoch: not aware of, that you're not fully comprehending how much
John Murdoch: moisture you've got in your soil profile and how much
John Murdoch: soil temp future climatic influences may give you in terms
John Murdoch: of fodder. And so, it's flagging those things so you
John Murdoch: can make decisions earlier and hopefully more profitably to your farm.
Rohan Leach: How is that fodder information and predicted fodder growth displayed
Rohan Leach: or presented?
John Murdoch: Displayed primarily in the graph format and it will graphically
John Murdoch: display based on a model run of the last 50
John Murdoch: years of rainfall and temperature where you would likely end
John Murdoch: up from day zero essentially, which is when that reading
John Murdoch: is currently taking place. And it will give you a
John Murdoch: spread of deciles. And I believe it's zero to 10
John Murdoch: percentile, it might be zero to 15 percentile. The 15 percentiles of worst years
John Murdoch: will lead you this way, your average bands, middle percentiles
John Murdoch: will lead you this way. And then in the top
John Murdoch: 15% of years you would end up here in terms of kilograms
John Murdoch: of dry matter per hectare. And it's important to point
John Murdoch: out that that kilograms per hectare of dry matter is
John Murdoch: based on what the farm model is at that site.
John Murdoch: They might be working on a system that's 50% improved, 50%
John Murdoch: native or 100% native. That kilograms per hectare will fluctuate
John Murdoch: depending on what farm model is sitting at that site.
John Murdoch: But the trends will be generally consistent.
Rohan Leach: You might look at the soil probe site for one
Rohan Leach: area that might be near you and a similar soil type
Rohan Leach: for your moisture readings, but be looking at a site
Rohan Leach: in a different location for more of the pasture information
Rohan Leach: and the pasture types.
John Murdoch: Yes, that's right. And I think ultimately the end game
John Murdoch: would be to get to a point where you can
John Murdoch: toggle as a user where you think you sit and
John Murdoch: the pasture types that you've got there. However, adapting CSIRO's grass-
John Murdoch: grown modeling is a taxing task. We're I think happy,
John Murdoch: and I say we, I'm no longer on that committee,
John Murdoch: but very proud to be where we are. But there's
John Murdoch: the group's ambitious and wants to keep moving forward with
John Murdoch: this as a tool.
Rohan Leach: It's probably now is as good as time to plug
Rohan Leach: our involvement as well. Central West Local Land Services is
Rohan Leach: actually rolling this out as well in our region. We'll
Rohan Leach: be one of those probably four or five sites of
Rohan Leach: those 100 new ones that you. Yeah, I guess for
Rohan Leach: producers out there that might want to be involved, probably
Rohan Leach: reach out to myself and yeah, my details will be
Rohan Leach: in the show notes. But how do you use it
Rohan Leach: actually in your own business? Can you maybe give me
Rohan Leach: an example of a time that you've used the Farming Forecaster?
John Murdoch: I actually use it the most when I'm in my,
John Murdoch: not so much the breeding part of my system, but
John Murdoch: in the fodder cropping side of things with trying to
John Murdoch: balance the number of lambs or cattle on hand versing any
John Murdoch: with bred versus any trading opportunity that might present itself.
John Murdoch: And so in a year like this where we feel
John Murdoch: like there may be potentially opportunities in trading cattle. And
John Murdoch: we go, " Oh, we've got wheat crops up where we've
John Murdoch: got the feed." And you go jump on Farming Forecaster
John Murdoch: and go, "Whoa, your soil moisture is low. The actually outlook for winter
John Murdoch: is not great. Perhaps you won't be able to do
John Murdoch: the job that you're thinking you can do at this
John Murdoch: point in time come two months in the heart of
John Murdoch: winter." I tend to use it mainly for that in
John Murdoch: terms of projecting where my fodder supply will be. And
John Murdoch: also that's likewise for summer lambs, where spring lambs, summer
John Murdoch: wean onto crops at the start of summer. It gives
John Murdoch: you an indication of from this starting point how long
John Murdoch: with the soil moisture we've got, that lucerne's going to
John Murdoch: be productive and grow X amount of kilograms. You can
John Murdoch: start calculating whether you are understocked for lambs and whether
John Murdoch: there's a trade opportunity, you're okay or you're going to
John Murdoch: have to start supplementing sooner than you thought.
Rohan Leach: Where's your nearest site? How far away is it from
Rohan Leach: your place?
John Murdoch: I've actually got a virtual site, well, which is a farm that
John Murdoch: we're currently moving off literally nearly on this farm. But
John Murdoch: our main farm, we've got one within five kilometers. Actually we've
John Murdoch: got three within probably five to 10 kilometers of our
John Murdoch: main farm. And our southern block, we've actually got one
John Murdoch: on the farm next door, highly accurate to our farm
John Murdoch: out there. We're a bit spoiled for choice. I mean
John Murdoch: the MFS group and the Farming Forecaster group really tried
John Murdoch: to spread the probes around so it benefited a lot
John Murdoch: of the initial membership base but also had enough geographic
John Murdoch: and rainfall and soil type spread.
Rohan Leach: I think the central west region is probably a little
Rohan Leach: bit bigger than southeast, so ours might be a little
Rohan Leach: bit further spread out. But yeah, hopefully that might be
Rohan Leach: the aim one day for us. Does the Monaro farming
Rohan Leach: systems or do you have a separate Farming Forecaster group
Rohan Leach: that you maybe mentioned that get together regularly? Or is
Rohan Leach: it you just operate independently with this information?
John Murdoch: The Farming Forecaster site is public access. Anyone can log
John Murdoch: on and access it and look at the sites and look at the
John Murdoch: outputs. We generally have quarterly field days with our members
John Murdoch: and we use it to support either some of the
John Murdoch: presentations or discussions. Or if we think the season is
John Murdoch: throwing up things that are challenging. We will go into
John Murdoch: detail on some sites and look at where are we
John Murdoch: at, what would be some of the solutions. And again,
John Murdoch: this could be positive, a very big summer or spring.
John Murdoch: And we might run the figures on performing a steer
John Murdoch: trade and the risk involved in that. Or looking at
John Murdoch: the management of potential drought situations emerging and what would
John Murdoch: be the management considerations to do with that. And so
John Murdoch: we look at adapt... Using that on a quarterly basis
John Murdoch: in a face- to- face. Manner it's otherwise, yeah, for
John Murdoch: everyone to access as they wish.
Rohan Leach: Mate, we might just move on to the next topic
Rohan Leach: I had in mind, which I know the Monaro in
Rohan Leach: recent years has had its fair share of natural disasters.
Rohan Leach: How has your business fared during those times, talking droughts
Rohan Leach: and fires?
John Murdoch: My farming career's been quite funny. I mean I've been
John Murdoch: farming for 12 years now. I'm previously an accountant. And I
John Murdoch: happened to come back at the end of the 2010, 2011
John Murdoch: when we just came out of a major drought. I
John Murdoch: came back to phenomenally good run of seasons up to about 2016,
John Murdoch: 2017 and an upward inflection on commodity prices. And I
John Murdoch: was supremely lucky to experience that. And then, I guess
John Murdoch: I was put on the belly I guess in, it got
John Murdoch: dry 2017, 2018 on the Monaro and very bad in 2019, 2020. And
John Murdoch: that was a tough period without a doubt. And I
John Murdoch: mean resilience, while it's a phrase that it's thrown around
John Murdoch: a lot, it's just part of organizations' names in terms
John Murdoch: of drought, resilience got tested I think for everyone, but
John Murdoch: certainly for me during that little period. And even probably
John Murdoch: this last spring, summer was probably as equally tough if
John Murdoch: not shorter and with less external pressures just with the
John Murdoch: capitulation on sheep prices and the fear of God of
John Murdoch: that putting you with feeding them, feeding them when they're
John Murdoch: not worth anything were two very difficult periods for myself.
John Murdoch: I mean taking for granted the run that I had
John Murdoch: to begin with, we did have a few challenges within
John Murdoch: that good period. We had foot rot and a number
John Murdoch: of other things that went on. But yeah, when you're
John Murdoch: at the mercy of the elements, I think we're all
John Murdoch: built with a degree of resilience and it's all different
John Murdoch: amongst us. And eventually I feel that it is a
John Murdoch: finite resource, just variable in size in different people.
Rohan Leach: And yeah, I know they talk about it being an
Rohan Leach: elastic band that can stretch and stretch and eventually it
Rohan Leach: might snap in some.
John Murdoch: Yeah, and that was my case. I remember this was even
John Murdoch: before the fire started, we were impacted by drought for
John Murdoch: probably a year prior to being severely impacted by fire.
John Murdoch: But even in the lead up to then, was managing
John Murdoch: fine. We'd done a year of feeding and we were
John Murdoch: lucky in that where we were still selling sheep and cattle reasonably
John Murdoch: well. It was for all intents and purposes, profitable drought
John Murdoch: feeding as oxymoronic as that sounds. And I remember we
John Murdoch: were tight and we were weaning lambs off mum to
John Murdoch: sell as suckers, which we don't normally do in our
John Murdoch: first cross system. And I just remember the agent pulling up, who's a
John Murdoch: very good friend of mine, but looking at the lambs
John Murdoch: and just going, " Ooh," and making that noise. And that,
John Murdoch: I was gone. I just went, " Oh God, we're in
John Murdoch: trouble here." And that just, I'll never forget that capitulation
John Murdoch: of panic and stress and worry just come on. In
John Murdoch: the end we got out of those lambs okay, fine. But
John Murdoch: just there was that moment that I just went, " Oh God."
John Murdoch: And that made for then a pretty tough six months
John Murdoch: afterwards where it just took me that long to get back
John Murdoch: out of the doldrums if you will.
Rohan Leach: Thanks for being so open, mate, but can you tell people
Rohan Leach: what the doldrums were like?
John Murdoch: Well, for me it's just I guess, I mean I'm
John Murdoch: genetically predisposed to mental health issues. My mother suffers quite
John Murdoch: severely, but for me it's just all encompassing the anxiety.
John Murdoch: Just stress and worry and it just is at you
John Murdoch: always. Not sleeping well, not eating well, not being able to focus
John Murdoch: on what you're doing on farm because you are stressing
John Murdoch: and worrying about everything. And it's just a huge, all
John Murdoch: consuming gear that's just driving inside you. And you feel
John Murdoch: it in your head and you feel it in your
John Murdoch: stomach. And you live with it, well, for me for that six month period and
John Murdoch: it exhausts you.
Rohan Leach: That sounds shocking, mate, but how'd you pull through it? How'd you get through it?
John Murdoch: Well, I mean I guess with coming from a family that knows
John Murdoch: about mental health, that helps. I certainly saw medical professional
John Murdoch: help which did make a difference, but also just, I
John Murdoch: mean as different as it sounds, making time for actual
John Murdoch: mental health as a physical thing. Whether that be, I
John Murdoch: spoke to a psychologist which helped a lot, but also
John Murdoch: making sure to exercise to particularly, this is when you're
John Murdoch: feeling 100%, is to take time to I guess switch
John Murdoch: off when you can. It can be very hard. We're
John Murdoch: a family with three young kids. And my wife works
John Murdoch: full time and we both manage separate careers and businesses.
John Murdoch: You forget to do that. And it come back to
John Murdoch: bite you. And so, taking that time to just stop
John Murdoch: and let your have some peace I've learned is hugely valuable.
Rohan Leach: Yeah, I've found even in my own life, if I've
Rohan Leach: been having a bit of a long day or a
Rohan Leach: tough day that I love going to footy training on
Rohan Leach: those days just to switch off and just chase a
Rohan Leach: ball around for an hour and a half. That's really
Rohan Leach: important for myself.
John Murdoch: It's not easy because you don't feel like you don't
John Murdoch: want to do that. I love touch footy and I
John Murdoch: love tennis and you don't want to do it. You
John Murdoch: have to force yourself to do it. You all of a sudden
John Murdoch: don't want to socialize, you don't want to and you've
John Murdoch: got to work. And so it's a slog. You got to work
John Murdoch: against yourself essentially when you're, we'll call it down in the
John Murdoch: doldrums. But when I was knocked, you're fighting yourself because
John Murdoch: your body's instincts are probably pulling you a way that's in a
John Murdoch: direction that's not going to get you to the best long- term outcome.
Rohan Leach: Battle still ongoing, mate?
John Murdoch: It comes to me at times and it's always farm
John Murdoch: triggered. In my 10 years, 12 years, I probably had
John Murdoch: three really low points or where I've really battled. And
John Murdoch: a psychologist said to me, " Why are you farming?" because
John Murdoch: this time. My most recent one, I said, "This is a very, very good question." But yeah, no, as
John Murdoch: I get older and wiser, I'm trying to do more
John Murdoch: to manage myself when I'm feeling 100% healthy mentally so
John Murdoch: to prevent those relapse. Because they are, I find very
John Murdoch: costly both to your emotional self, but also, you're not
John Murdoch: firing as a business person when you're feeling like that.
John Murdoch: The thought of taking on more risk or doing something
John Murdoch: that is a little bit more aggressive is so far out
John Murdoch: of your appetite when you're feeling like that, that you
John Murdoch: would step over good opportunities because of that condition. For
John Murdoch: me it's about personal health but also about being better
John Murdoch: at business. Is it's a part of that discipline is
John Murdoch: having good mental health. And I mean I think if
John Murdoch: you want me to reflect on it, we went through
John Murdoch: that drought period, then we had bushfires. My second daughter
John Murdoch: was born with an emergency C- section in the middle
John Murdoch: of the bushfires two days after we had a drowning
John Murdoch: on our property. And I was chasing the ambulance actually
John Murdoch: to Canberra, which is about two hours north. And I've
John Murdoch: never ever felt more mortal in my life. I was
John Murdoch: just felt that so vulnerable. And so, I reflect on
John Murdoch: that a lot as part of grounding yourself on a day- to-
John Murdoch: day basis or a week- to- week basis. We are
John Murdoch: actually quite mortal. And when you're wrapped up in business
John Murdoch: and farming and trying to manage a farm, you forget
John Murdoch: to reflect on yourself a little bit.
Rohan Leach: John, that's really powerful. You've had a run there. And
Rohan Leach: I'm sure COVID and all of the stresses since then
Rohan Leach: have probably certainly not helped, but how do you go
Rohan Leach: about your days now?
John Murdoch: Well, I mean discipline- wise, I've felt like for a year
John Murdoch: where I've just been chasing our tail with family and
John Murdoch: kids and the farm. Particularly now we've changed moving a farm over. You're
John Murdoch: getting everything done, but you're only just getting it done.
John Murdoch: That is a physical and mental toll that I've become
John Murdoch: aware of. And that's one of the reasons why, and
John Murdoch: I touched on it at the beginning, was our shift into a
John Murdoch: more cattle- centric enterprise. With the complexities of our farm
John Murdoch: system, we are literally jumping from one animal health or
John Murdoch: fodder crop based process to the next. And it's just
John Murdoch: monkey barring continually. And if you have a breakdown in
John Murdoch: labor or an anomaly in the farming system, it causes
John Murdoch: mayhem. It's just such a finely tuned system that we
John Murdoch: have that we're busting yourself to keep it firing. And I mean,
John Murdoch: we were greedy because it was profitable. But yeah, it
John Murdoch: certainly minds me of resilience. And I think, yeah, look,
John Murdoch: it's funny. Some challenges you are fine with and some
John Murdoch: of them knock you. And there's no rhyme or reason
John Murdoch: to it in my reflection. For me it was that
John Murdoch: agent just going, " Ooh," looking at the lambs. We went
John Murdoch: through COVID fine. COVID wasn't an issue for us. I
John Murdoch: mean partly because we had the bushfires in the three
John Murdoch: months prior where that was far worse. We had no
John Murdoch: phone reception, you couldn't see anything. The highways were closed.
John Murdoch: COVID was actually probably a significant improvement from where we
John Murdoch: were within the bushfires. But there is no rhyme or
John Murdoch: reason for me as to what triggers something directly to
John Murdoch: start impacting you. And for those that aren't affected by
John Murdoch: it, I mean I'm supremely happy. It's a very hard
John Murdoch: thing for people, I think, to comprehend that haven't had
John Murdoch: challenges. But I know there's people out there that don't.
John Murdoch: And I don't certainly resent that at all.
Rohan Leach: I think a lot of producers would understand where you're
Rohan Leach: coming from and having that system just redlining almost like
Rohan Leach: an engine. Yeah, going from one operation to the next
Rohan Leach: with no real downtime. A lot of people would be
Rohan Leach: able to apply that in their own situation and hopefully,
Rohan Leach: yeah, be able to pick up on some of the
Rohan Leach: triggers that might bring them low.
John Murdoch: Yeah. It's an evolving issue within society, but it's evolving
John Murdoch: in the right ways I think. And that's something to
John Murdoch: be hopeful about in terms of where mental health sits.
John Murdoch: Both mental health for the people that are mentally healthy
John Murdoch: and mental health for the people that are struggling.
Rohan Leach: Just for my final question, what do you see as the
Rohan Leach: big issue in Australian ag at the moment?
John Murdoch: No, I think the balance of land use in Australian agriculture is
John Murdoch: probably one of the biggest issues, and that's whether the
John Murdoch: land is used for primary production or that it's mandatory
John Murdoch: used for emissions abatement or whether it's mandatorily used for
John Murdoch: biodiversity in conservation. Or I mean, there's other addendums to
John Murdoch: that as well. There's timber production or housing and residential.
John Murdoch: I think we're at a juncture in Australian agricultural history
John Murdoch: where, and I'm talking to federal government here, but we need
John Murdoch: to decide what we want the Australian agricultural industry to
John Murdoch: be. And how it fits within the economic, social, and
John Murdoch: environmental space of Australia's future. And I do think we're
John Murdoch: at a juncture where the ill- thought out pen stroke
John Murdoch: could have significant ramifications for agricultural production in this country
John Murdoch: going forwards.
Rohan Leach: Yeah, I think our landowners are definitely some of our
Rohan Leach: better land managers. I think there's probably a lot of
Rohan Leach: industries and maybe government agencies, but maybe I'll get in
Rohan Leach: trouble for saying too much there, that might be able
Rohan Leach: to learn a thing or two from farmers. Yeah, definitely
Rohan Leach: agree with you. That's a good one, mate. I don't think
Rohan Leach: we've heard that one before. Yeah, thanks for that. Mate, I've
Rohan Leach: had a cracking time today, so thanks so much for
Rohan Leach: coming on the podcast, John.
John Murdoch: My pleasure. Hope to catch up soon.
Neroli Brennan: If you need support for your mental health, please contact
Neroli Brennan: Lifeline on 13- 11- 14 or the Mental Health Hotline on 1- 800- 011-
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