WEBVTT - The evolution of ag: This farmer’s journey to managing weeds while reducing inputs 0:00:06.450 --> 0:00:09.570 This is Seeds for Success, a show where we have 0:00:09.570 --> 0:00:12.539 a good yarn about ag life with producers who are 0:00:12.539 --> 0:00:15.300 having a go. On the show, you'll hear from farmers 0:00:15.300 --> 0:00:18.480 in New South Wales who are out there battling the elements, 0:00:18.630 --> 0:00:22.440 making tough calls, and getting the job done. You'll get 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:24.750 a laugh out of some of their stories, and also 0:00:24.750 --> 0:00:27.510 pick up some know- how along the way. I'm your 0:00:27.510 --> 0:00:36.089 host Neroli Brennan. Today, we're having a yarn with Joe Fleming. 0:00:36.510 --> 0:00:41.130 Joe farms alongside his family at Ulah, a 10, 000 hectare mixed 0:00:41.130 --> 0:00:44.670 farming property, just west of Walgett in north- west New 0:00:44.670 --> 0:00:49.620 South Wales. With some opportunity irrigated cotton, cattle trading, and 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:54.420 reducement also featuring when the season allows. In today's episode, 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.960 we hear that as well as farming, Joe is pretty 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.260 handy with a welder, and runs his own engineering workshop 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.280 on farm called Evolve Ag. His latest venture has been 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.750 into the manufacturing of machinery, and in particular, crimpers. You'll 0:01:09.750 --> 0:01:13.709 hear Joe explain how these innovative tools can help farmers 0:01:13.709 --> 0:01:18.119 manage weeds without disturbing the soil, providing benefits for both 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:22.708 pastures and cropping country. Joe also shares with us his 0:01:22.709 --> 0:01:26.550 family's succession journey, and how difficult a process it can be. 0:01:26.790 --> 0:01:30.149 He discusses it from his perspective, and how it's important 0:01:30.150 --> 0:01:33.750 to remember the privilege of being in the situation where 0:01:33.750 --> 0:01:38.040 inheriting a farm is a possibility. Local Land Services mixed 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.429 farming advisor, Rohan Leach, sat down with Joe to find 0:01:41.430 --> 0:01:46.260 out more about the future opportunities he sees in agriculture today. 0:01:49.950 --> 0:01:53.550 G'day listeners. Today, I'm with Joe Fleming near Walgett. Welcome 0:01:53.550 --> 0:01:55.350 to the Seeds for Success podcast, mate. 0:01:55.530 --> 0:01:57.330 Oh, what a pleasure, Ro. Thanks for having me, mate. 0:01:57.690 --> 0:01:59.670 Can you start off by giving me an overview of 0:01:59.670 --> 0:02:00.480 your business here at Ulah? 0:02:01.410 --> 0:02:05.940 Yeah, mate, so I guess there's two sides of it. Our business is up on the farm 0:02:06.810 --> 0:02:10.650 west of Walgett. We started Evolve Engineering five years ago off 0:02:10.650 --> 0:02:14.639 the back of Ulah Engineering, which is an engineering business 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.190 I started probably 10 years ago. Then that, for lack 0:02:17.190 --> 0:02:22.080 of a better word, evolved into something bigger and better. And then the other 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.230 half of the business, I guess, is our family business being at Ulah, 0:02:25.889 --> 0:02:28.470 which I'm fifth generation, we are out on farm. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:31.290 Give me a bit of a run down of Ulah. 0:02:31.380 --> 0:02:34.650 What sort of hectares, business type, enterprises, those sorts of things? 0:02:34.860 --> 0:02:40.650 Ulah's around 10,000 hectares, give or take a bit. We're mixed farming, and 0:02:40.650 --> 0:02:44.040 try and keep a bit of variety around that with 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.100 different streams and avenues of income, I guess. We're around 3, 0:02:47.100 --> 0:02:50.549 300 hectares of dry land or cropping, which we mix 0:02:50.669 --> 0:02:55.200 between mostly wheat and chickpeas. We find that there's going 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.540 to be a forced fallow in there, one way or 0:02:57.540 --> 0:03:01.380 the other around that rotation. But we have done some 0:03:01.380 --> 0:03:04.740 summer cropping before in the dry land sense of things with 0:03:04.860 --> 0:03:08.340 dry land cotton, and fava beans. Well, that's a little 0:03:09.180 --> 0:03:11.220 more winter as well, but we sort of have played 0:03:11.220 --> 0:03:14.160 around with a few things. Then, we've got 400 hectares, or around that, 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:21.150 of irrigation that's on unregulated river catchment, so that's sort 0:03:21.150 --> 0:03:24.630 of more opportunistic flow, so we can't order any water down, 0:03:24.630 --> 0:03:27.000 or anything. It's sort of more what falls in the catchment, 0:03:27.330 --> 0:03:31.560 and what's buzzing past us to meet thresholds. Fairly rigorous 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.300 thresholds have to be met in order for us to 0:03:33.300 --> 0:03:34.080 take that water. 0:03:34.230 --> 0:03:37.290 And with that water, you sort of pump out into on- 0:03:37.290 --> 0:03:39.120 farm storage, and then water from there? 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.940 Yep. We sort of try and reserve that country for 0:03:41.940 --> 0:03:45.720 cotton in the irrigation, but it's also opportunistic as well. We 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.410 do grow winter crops, depending on the water availability. What 0:03:49.410 --> 0:03:52.560 we've got there is the general thought process, is if we 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:54.690 don't use it, we lose it. So, we've sort of 0:03:54.990 --> 0:03:57.780 got to be able to move that around as well. So, 0:03:57.780 --> 0:04:02.100 we do plant chickpeas or wheat in the irrigation as well 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.340 as an opportunity thing. And then the rest is grazing, 0:04:05.340 --> 0:04:09.420 so we're just working out a bit more water. Or water's 0:04:09.420 --> 0:04:13.260 pretty good, so we're probably more so fencing. We've got a bit of a 0:04:13.260 --> 0:04:15.600 scatter of grazing around the place, but there's plenty of 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.110 opportunity there in that space as well. We don't have 0:04:19.110 --> 0:04:22.260 a nucleus herd anymore, but we have been looking at reducement and 0:04:23.460 --> 0:04:27.839 into trading. Whatever's going, really. So, that's probably to meet 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.290 the theme of west of Walgett, it is opportunistic farming 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.830 out here too, so that pretty much sums up the 0:04:34.830 --> 0:04:36.630 enterprise , yeah. 0:04:36.930 --> 0:04:39.390 So, all cattle on the grazing, or is there sheep 0:04:39.390 --> 0:04:39.779 as well? 0:04:39.900 --> 0:04:42.719 My old man sold. We were, for the most part 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:48.570 of Ulah's life, was a stud. Well, Merino stud and Merino's 0:04:49.710 --> 0:04:53.610 breeding program. But my old man sold all of our 0:04:53.610 --> 0:04:57.420 sheep in 1991, on my first birthday, and we haven't 0:04:57.779 --> 0:05:00.390 actually stepped back into the sheep side of things. We 0:05:00.390 --> 0:05:04.230 have traded a few lambs here and there, but it's 0:05:04.230 --> 0:05:07.230 something that he lost interest in and sort of more 0:05:07.230 --> 0:05:08.100 so focused on. 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.350 Selling all the sheep on your first birthday, mate, that's 0:05:10.350 --> 0:05:14.370 a pretty ominous sign, or maybe auspicious. It means that 0:05:14.370 --> 0:05:16.620 you probably didn't grow up learning how to dag fly- 0:05:16.620 --> 0:05:17.220 blown sheep. 0:05:17.250 --> 0:05:20.580 Yeah, mate. Look, talk to a few people. I mean, 0:05:20.580 --> 0:05:22.140 you're either on one side of the fence or the other. 0:05:22.140 --> 0:05:24.720 You either love it or you hate it. But I've yet 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.300 to figure out if it's probably the best birthday gift 0:05:27.300 --> 0:05:30.360 that he's ever given me. But it could quite potentially be. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.779 But some people would argue that. My father- in- law 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:35.700 would argue that after the day he dies. 0:05:37.500 --> 0:05:40.980 So, the balance of the grazing country, what sort of 0:05:40.980 --> 0:05:43.470 pasture species, or what's that look like? 0:05:43.620 --> 0:05:48.779 What I've learned over the last four years in developing our other business, or 0:05:48.779 --> 0:05:53.610 my business, I say, Evolve, is working out really that west of Walgett here, and around a lot 0:05:53.610 --> 0:05:58.890 of Walgett, we've got a really high protein seed base 0:05:58.890 --> 0:06:02.040 embedded out here. It doesn't really call for much need 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:07.020 for boost, or pasture improvement at all. It's heavily breeder 0:06:07.020 --> 0:06:11.130 country here. And left alone, and without sort of stimulating 0:06:11.130 --> 0:06:15.960 that, that sort of term too is higher protein herbage. That's the 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.240 word I'm looking for. There's a lot of herbage, but to 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.020 stimulate that pasture, I guess, you can really try and 0:06:22.050 --> 0:06:26.310 push into there. Well, you can sort of access the seed 0:06:26.310 --> 0:06:29.880 base that is there naturally, and that's quite a lot 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.600 of good grasses and good herbage mixture that can really 0:06:33.990 --> 0:06:37.950 be beneficial for any type of enterprise, if you are 0:06:37.950 --> 0:06:40.290 breeding or if you are trading cattle. It's just sort of 0:06:40.290 --> 0:06:43.980 more so making the most out of the opportunity for 0:06:44.100 --> 0:06:47.010 things to grow, and jumping on it straight away. That's 0:06:47.010 --> 0:06:50.490 why I think a lot more people out here now are moving 0:06:50.490 --> 0:06:55.080 towards a trade, or the trade side of things, because the 0:06:55.110 --> 0:06:58.470 drought has really tattooed the back of our minds as to what 0:06:58.470 --> 0:07:00.779 it's like feeding for so long, and it can just be 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:06.270 a heartache. So, I think there's either a lot more opportunity in 0:07:06.270 --> 0:07:08.909 that now, and people are realizing the potential in that. So, 0:07:08.940 --> 0:07:11.430 that's what we're sort of trying to work towards. There's 0:07:11.430 --> 0:07:14.340 a lot of infrastructure that goes with that as well, 0:07:14.340 --> 0:07:16.440 so you'd have to set up to be able to 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.250 spell paddocks correctly, and water stock efficiently. So, there's a 0:07:20.250 --> 0:07:22.290 lot that goes with that, but I think that's what we're trying 0:07:22.290 --> 0:07:24.180 to move towards to now. 0:07:24.180 --> 0:07:27.120 So, a lot of infrastructure still to go in. What 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.070 does that look like for the next 12 months? 0:07:29.250 --> 0:07:32.040 We're just about to start exclusion fencing. Well, it's been 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.220 in the wishlist for a while now. It's a very expensive process. 0:07:35.220 --> 0:07:38.760 We're actually, I've got three blokes in the workshop with me. 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.180 We're setting up a trailer, a fencing trailer right now, 0:07:42.510 --> 0:07:45.750 to just... We're going to build the exclusion fence ourselves, 0:07:45.750 --> 0:07:50.970 I think. Comparing price-wise and time spent on it, I think that 0:07:50.970 --> 0:07:52.680 was going to be the most efficient, effective way for 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.680 us to do it. Look, we're not flying out of 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.870 the gates and putting the whole lot up at once. 0:07:57.870 --> 0:08:01.500 We're going to do the first six Ks, and that's 0:08:01.500 --> 0:08:04.530 going to be our furthest most northern boundary. I won't 0:08:04.530 --> 0:08:08.520 mention who, but one of your interviews from not that 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.150 long ago, he's put an exclusion fence that borders on 0:08:12.150 --> 0:08:15.300 the northern part of our property. And what we found, was that 0:08:15.300 --> 0:08:19.740 exclusion fence that he so dearly loves, is all the animals, 0:08:19.740 --> 0:08:21.660 all the fauna that are hitting that fence, whether it 0:08:21.660 --> 0:08:24.870 be feral or natives, are then re- diverted and come 0:08:24.870 --> 0:08:29.160 straight into our northern boundaries. So, here we go. We're finding that there's 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.220 going to be an absolute necessity for more of the exclusion 0:08:32.220 --> 0:08:34.770 fences go up. They've just got to keep going up, because 0:08:34.770 --> 0:08:37.679 there is going to be a larger amount of animals 0:08:37.950 --> 0:08:40.380 that are going to be infiltrated into the places that do not 0:08:40.380 --> 0:08:44.069 have these as a barrier. It's a blockade. So, yeah, 0:08:44.070 --> 0:08:47.460 that's going to be the start of our exclusion fence to the 0:08:47.460 --> 0:08:49.079 northern side of the property, and then we're going to 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.280 slowly start wrapping around, and find what that does just 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.721 with potential of growth, et cetera. I think it's a no-brainer. 0:08:57.721 --> 0:08:59.309 I think the return on investment from a lot of the 0:08:59.309 --> 0:09:01.559 guys that I've spoken to, that have put them up, 0:09:01.740 --> 0:09:05.490 it is a big input, big capital cost, but it 0:09:05.490 --> 0:09:08.939 can generally pay back within a few years, in terms 0:09:08.940 --> 0:09:12.809 of increased grazing and less damage to your crops. Mate, 0:09:12.809 --> 0:09:17.069 you've talked about your other business, Evolve Ag, what is that, 0:09:17.070 --> 0:09:18.030 and can you tell me a bit about that? 0:09:18.510 --> 0:09:23.579 Yeah, certainly can, mate. It's been, well what, we've been 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.400 five years now, nearly four and a half years. So, 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.360 about four and a half years ago, my wife's uncle 0:09:30.630 --> 0:09:35.010 approached me. It was the end of the drought. It was about 2019. Said that 0:09:35.010 --> 0:09:38.100 he had interest in planting a cover crop, and he 0:09:38.100 --> 0:09:41.100 wanted me to develop an idea around a chevron blade 0:09:41.100 --> 0:09:44.339 barrel to then crimp that cover crop out. He just 0:09:44.340 --> 0:09:47.429 wanted to give it a go. And look, I'd been closely following 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:52.380 what those techniques around, and what they were doing around America around that, and the 0:09:52.380 --> 0:09:55.110 benefits that they were finding with cover crops. It just 0:09:55.110 --> 0:09:58.260 sort of really didn't hit my radar that was something 0:09:58.260 --> 0:10:02.069 that we were going to really step into. So, we made the first. Well, 0:10:02.070 --> 0:10:04.470 I suppose we'd call the first BLADERUNNER, which we coined 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.300 them to be now in 2019. Coming into 2020, he 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.559 had a cover crop that was ready and were up to crimp. So, we 0:10:13.710 --> 0:10:16.890 hooked into it. It did everything that we were expecting it 0:10:16.890 --> 0:10:20.850 to do. A chevron blade barrel is, think of a round barrel, 0:10:20.970 --> 0:10:23.880 a tubular or a cylinder, on the outside of it 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.600 you have blades, but instead of blades standing up perpendicular 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.449 to the center axis of the barrel, the blades are 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.479 actually wrapped around the barrel, so in a V, in 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:38.790 a formed V. So, if you imagine a blade then rotating, 0:10:39.090 --> 0:10:42.150 if you had straight blades on the barrel, instead of 0:10:42.150 --> 0:10:46.500 them clunking, or as it rotates one, it hits one, then the next, 0:10:46.530 --> 0:10:51.000 you then, with them formed into a V in a chevron, you 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:55.770 then get the weight dispersal difference. So, the pressure starts 0:10:55.770 --> 0:10:58.350 at the front edge of the V, and then as the barrel rotates, 0:10:59.250 --> 0:11:02.550 that pressure splits up into two different sections, and then 0:11:02.550 --> 0:11:05.490 works away along to the end of the barrel. So, what 0:11:05.490 --> 0:11:10.020 you have effectively is then a lot of pressure getting 0:11:10.020 --> 0:11:12.809 transferred from the frame and the barrel itself, to a 0:11:12.809 --> 0:11:16.980 very small area. That's how a chevron works. You're trying 0:11:16.980 --> 0:11:19.770 to get as much pressure on the smallest amount of 0:11:19.770 --> 0:11:21.330 barrel or blade as possible. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:25.920 So, less paddle wheel, and more impacted, more precision? 0:11:26.190 --> 0:11:29.940 Yeah, it's precision impact really, and it's key for biomass. So, what 0:11:30.090 --> 0:11:33.900 America or the Rodale Institute who coined or came up, 0:11:33.900 --> 0:11:38.970 who invented, I suppose, this type of implement tooling, is 0:11:38.970 --> 0:11:42.569 that to lay over biomass, to bruise the stem, it's 0:11:42.569 --> 0:11:47.100 really important that in a cover cropping scenario that you're not actually laying and then 0:11:47.100 --> 0:11:50.880 severing a stem, because then that can influence re- shooting 0:11:51.210 --> 0:11:55.590 of that plant. We're laying over, we're bruising the stem, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:01.170 and shutting off that fluid nutrient supply, or the access to 0:12:01.170 --> 0:12:03.929 the nutrient supply from the root system to the solar panels, 0:12:03.990 --> 0:12:06.660 or the leaf. Or the actual top of the biomass. So, 0:12:06.990 --> 0:12:09.809 what then happens, in turn, is you can actually terminate 0:12:09.929 --> 0:12:15.059 certain plants organically, and that's how covered cropping works. The 0:12:15.059 --> 0:12:18.300 laying over. Well, that's how crimping covered cropping works, and 0:12:18.300 --> 0:12:22.860 that's the positives in utilizing that biomass as ground cover, 0:12:22.980 --> 0:12:27.059 and then as a weed suppressor. And there's a heap 0:12:27.059 --> 0:12:30.809 of beneficials that you can find in that space by using 0:12:31.050 --> 0:12:35.250 that cover crop, or crimping a covered crop. So, to go on from what you're 0:12:35.250 --> 0:12:38.160 saying before where we found Gus, what we did for 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.280 Gus in his country, in his cover cropping scenario, is 0:12:41.670 --> 0:12:44.939 exactly that. It worked. He had a mixed partial. I think it 0:12:45.270 --> 0:12:49.829 was millet, silk sorghum, Sudanese grass, bits and pieces, whatever. 0:12:49.830 --> 0:12:53.760 It crimped everything over. It terminated everything quite effectively over 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.220 the few days that we're trialing at his place. So, 0:12:56.610 --> 0:12:59.610 that worked really well, but we were expecting it to work, 0:12:59.610 --> 0:13:02.849 because the formula was sort of written for us. What 0:13:02.850 --> 0:13:06.840 was interesting after that, was what came next, was that it 0:13:07.350 --> 0:13:08.790 was the end of the drought, he had a lot 0:13:08.790 --> 0:13:13.320 of rain on his country, and it was tight. It 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.069 wasn't compacted. The nutrient, or the process of the soil at that time 0:13:17.070 --> 0:13:20.280 was spitting out nitrates. So, we were getting a lot of thistles 0:13:20.490 --> 0:13:23.309 bursting out of the seams of the country. And he's 0:13:23.309 --> 0:13:26.340 a cattle producer too, so we were looking for availability 0:13:26.340 --> 0:13:30.120 of pasture, and we really needed to get, well he really needed to get cattle back on 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.640 his country, because he didn't want to sell any. They 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.929 were underweight. And what we thought we'd do, is have 0:13:36.929 --> 0:13:40.350 a crack at putting the BLADERUNNER over these nitrates, and 0:13:40.350 --> 0:13:43.740 seeing how if we could effectively do the same as using a cover crop scenario. 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.880 It was mostly variegated thistles at that point in time. 0:13:48.330 --> 0:13:50.520 And we just thought, " Well, we didn't really have anything 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.640 to lose." So, we chucked it in there. That was really the start of 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.330 Evolve Engineering, was the results that we then got from 0:13:57.390 --> 0:14:00.959 doing that. Which was effectively, we were laying over the thistles. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.070 We were terminating the thistles organically, and then we were 0:14:05.070 --> 0:14:09.240 allowing grasses and clovers, or medics and grasses I should say, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.260 to grow up and then flourish. And the explosion of 0:14:13.530 --> 0:14:18.510 those desirable pastures was something that really clicked over a 0:14:18.510 --> 0:14:21.630 gear in my head, as to think, "Oh, wow, the potential of this. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.260 We've just found something here that the potential of this 0:14:25.260 --> 0:14:25.950 is huge." 0:14:26.070 --> 0:14:28.710 So, important to point out the difference, I guess, or 0:14:28.710 --> 0:14:31.800 is there a difference between slashing and crimping? 0:14:32.190 --> 0:14:35.970 Yeah, very important, mate. Look, I think I get this question so much. 0:14:36.060 --> 0:14:41.010 Of course there is. There's a huge difference between the two. It's important to note that they are 0:14:41.010 --> 0:14:43.740 all tools in a toolbox. Farmers like to have a 0:14:43.740 --> 0:14:47.100 lot of tools a lot of the time. But the slashing 0:14:47.490 --> 0:14:50.550 takes a lot of horsepower. It runs down time. It's very slow 0:14:50.820 --> 0:14:53.970 to do, and it severs everything that's in front of 0:14:53.970 --> 0:14:57.150 you at an equal level. So, whether it's a nitrate weed, 0:14:57.150 --> 0:15:00.210 whether it's grasses, whether it's your medics, if it's desirable 0:15:00.210 --> 0:15:03.300 or undesirable pasture, it will cut everything back to an 0:15:03.300 --> 0:15:06.270 even playing field. The difference, I suppose, between that and 0:15:06.270 --> 0:15:09.630 the BLADERUNNER, is that BLADERUNNER is a lot more efficient 0:15:09.990 --> 0:15:13.230 to get over your country. It takes very little horsepower to run. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.960 And it will organically terminate weeds, or undesirable pasture, at 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.710 the right time of the year, or it can mulch and smash down 0:15:23.340 --> 0:15:27.330 biomass matter that's dry and has zero or very little 0:15:27.330 --> 0:15:32.010 protein or nutrient densities for stock. So, it then, in turn, 0:15:32.490 --> 0:15:36.210 allows light to penetrate through a canopy, and it sort of 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.020 influences that turnover of your season, if that makes sense. 0:15:40.110 --> 0:15:42.690 I want to expand on both those scenarios there. So, 0:15:42.870 --> 0:15:45.810 obviously timing would be crucial. What have you found the 0:15:45.810 --> 0:15:48.030 best timing for getting rid of, say, thistles? 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:54.390 I generally tell clients timing and farmers doesn't necessarily always 0:15:54.390 --> 0:15:57.180 go hand- in-hand. It could be a preparation issue. It 0:15:57.180 --> 0:16:00.960 could be a rain or moisture. It could be wet weather. 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.330 It could be anything. It could be your accountant's coming 0:16:03.330 --> 0:16:06.390 on Thursday. There's not really a wrong time to do it, 0:16:06.450 --> 0:16:09.060 if you are in the right season to do it. If 0:16:09.060 --> 0:16:14.550 you have undesirable pasture that is impeding upon desirable pasture 0:16:14.550 --> 0:16:19.920 because of competition, or because of sunlight, or because of moisture, 0:16:20.190 --> 0:16:23.040 if it's taking something away from another plant that you 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.980 want to grow, then there probably isn't the wrong time 0:16:25.980 --> 0:16:28.680 to do it. But if you do want to have 0:16:29.070 --> 0:16:32.130 the most desirable effects, it would be at either end 0:16:32.130 --> 0:16:37.020 of the season. So, probably with nitrate weeds, and being 0:16:37.020 --> 0:16:41.310 something like thistles, you probably, just before flowering, some thistles 0:16:41.310 --> 0:16:45.450 get really woody like saffron, and then mid- season would 0:16:45.450 --> 0:16:48.840 be not that advantageous to be crimping them during mid- season, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.510 because they are quite woody. So, you just wait for 0:16:51.510 --> 0:16:53.250 them at the end of the season, and then smash 0:16:53.250 --> 0:16:57.810 them down as a mature, broken down biomass. It's a 0:16:57.810 --> 0:17:00.690 lot easier. But saffrons are probably the hardest thistle that 0:17:00.690 --> 0:17:06.810 we take. I'm sure that's quite a generalizing. You can effectively crimp things through 0:17:06.810 --> 0:17:12.540 most part of the season. It is a suck it and see scenario. You will find that our machinery 0:17:12.540 --> 0:17:15.030 is a learning tool, so we don't have the answers 0:17:15.030 --> 0:17:19.679 for everything. It is season... Well, there's so many variables 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.140 in the season, that could say, " Well, you will." But 0:17:22.170 --> 0:17:24.030 the other side of it too, is you will get 0:17:24.030 --> 0:17:26.669 benefits out of it whenever you do it. It's probably 0:17:26.670 --> 0:17:30.840 more so just thinking about when you're going to get the most out of using it. And you've also 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.890 seen some pretty interesting results more recently around in your 0:17:34.890 --> 0:17:38.100 neck of the woods, on things like roly poly, and 0:17:38.100 --> 0:17:39.179 roly poly skeletons. 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.180 I mean roly poly being a nitrate weed too, it is really, 0:17:42.180 --> 0:17:46.710 really reactive around our country. There is that many hundreds 0:17:46.710 --> 0:17:49.619 of thousands of acres that is just choked down with 0:17:49.619 --> 0:17:55.230 roly poly, and it really impedes on production to the utmost. 0:17:55.740 --> 0:17:58.740 It's just an absolute problem. Now, the thing about that is, 0:17:58.740 --> 0:18:02.340 it's not just that as being a problem, it's what 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.720 people do to react around those conditions, because the immediate 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.300 thing in people's head is, "Okay, we're either going to chuck a match 0:18:09.300 --> 0:18:11.159 in it. We're going to put the Kelly chain in it. We're 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.220 going to get the stick rake. We're going to get a pinwheel. We're going to get 0:18:14.220 --> 0:18:16.350 the prickle chain, and we're just going to try and 0:18:16.350 --> 0:18:20.100 wipe it out." The thing to remember about that, is 0:18:20.130 --> 0:18:24.179 that the nitrate weed is actually doing a job on your soil. So, 0:18:24.510 --> 0:18:27.390 if you do that, if you completely wipe it out 0:18:27.390 --> 0:18:31.290 without letting it run its course and do its thing, 0:18:31.350 --> 0:18:34.439 is that you could trigger the exact same thing to happen, 0:18:34.650 --> 0:18:37.290 for it to go straight back into roly poly. What 0:18:37.290 --> 0:18:41.730 we've found with roly poly around Walgett for trials... Well, not so much trials, 0:18:41.730 --> 0:18:45.179 is the results that we're getting around here is utilizing 0:18:45.180 --> 0:18:49.770 the actual large biomass effect of a roly poly with 0:18:49.770 --> 0:18:54.090 a BLADERUNNER and rolling over it and crunching it into the ground, it gives 0:18:54.090 --> 0:18:54.961 the soil exactly what it needs. 0:18:54.961 --> 0:19:00.510 It gives that mulching effect without actually a really high impact 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:01.380 on your soil? 0:19:01.500 --> 0:19:05.790 We're still looking after that.... The topsoil, or where your 0:19:05.790 --> 0:19:08.430 seed germinates for these nitrates, is it's in the top 0:19:08.460 --> 0:19:11.879 50 mil, or even less really, the top 50 mil 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.800 of your soil. So, looking after that and conditioning that soil, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.909 for then to favor moving out of that nitrate cycle, is really, 0:19:20.910 --> 0:19:25.260 really important. So, what we're finding around here, is cycling, 0:19:25.260 --> 0:19:29.010 trying to instead of wiping your country out, utilizing your 0:19:29.010 --> 0:19:33.900 biomass potential of that roly poly, crunching it down, severing it, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:38.429 and then trying to cycle that country back into production, 0:19:38.430 --> 0:19:41.399 rather than wiping it clean and hoping to the gods 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.100 that you'll just grow something good after the roly poly, 0:19:44.100 --> 0:19:47.340 which doesn't happen very often. It's a much more efficient and 0:19:47.340 --> 0:19:51.690 effective way to grow beneficials or productive pasture. And that's 0:19:51.690 --> 0:19:55.619 exactly what we've seen time and time again with our machines in 0:19:55.949 --> 0:19:59.609 this country around here. They're very, very effective there. The 0:19:59.609 --> 0:20:02.070 next thing for us, mate, is working out its full 0:20:02.070 --> 0:20:06.240 potential in the cropping side of things. We sell machines 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.810 into stubble retention, or light lying down stubble. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:14.520 Mate, you have mentioned that you've drought, and having set 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.340 up your own business, you've been on and off farm 0:20:17.430 --> 0:20:20.760 at various times in your stage in your development at Ulah. 0:20:21.150 --> 0:20:23.880 I'd just like to talk a little bit about succession 0:20:24.090 --> 0:20:27.690 and succession planning with your family. Your eyes just made 0:20:27.690 --> 0:20:31.080 a little pop, so hopefully it's a fairly good topic 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.020 to talk about, but what's it been like for you guys? 0:20:34.230 --> 0:20:36.780 If you're privileged enough to do it, you go through it. 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.480 But there's another thing that I'll say about it, is 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.050 that you don't do it on the weekend. It's certainly something that you 0:20:43.050 --> 0:20:46.500 don't take home and enjoy over the weekend. It's sort 0:20:46.500 --> 0:20:50.850 of something that's an absolute necessity. And I think the 0:20:50.850 --> 0:20:53.310 biggest thing for us, Rohan, and where we slot into 0:20:53.310 --> 0:20:56.670 it, is the very annoying, but very privileged thing about it, is 0:20:56.670 --> 0:21:02.490 that we have a legacy that we want to continue on, generationally. That, 0:21:02.580 --> 0:21:08.220 mixing legacy with business, is really, really difficult, because you 0:21:08.220 --> 0:21:10.889 don't necessarily have your best business cap on when you're 0:21:10.890 --> 0:21:14.400 thinking about it. It's a very fine balance between an 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.220 agricultural sector as a business, and that is something that 0:21:17.220 --> 0:21:20.909 you want to continue on generationally. We are going through the throes 0:21:20.910 --> 0:21:24.300 of it now, mate. It's taken us probably, when we 0:21:24.300 --> 0:21:27.359 first started talking about, it probably to now maybe 10 years. 0:21:27.390 --> 0:21:30.330 It's developing now to the fact that, "Okay, we have a couple 0:21:30.330 --> 0:21:33.180 of trigger points here." My old man wants to move on, 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.000 and put down the reins. I'm ready to pick up 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.960 the reins, and move on with it. But it's just we've got to 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.310 be so careful about it. And there's a few delicate issues around 0:21:44.310 --> 0:21:48.359 that, and the fact that you've got to make sure that everyone's looked after, 0:21:48.570 --> 0:21:51.869 and that you can still have a successful business out the other 0:21:51.869 --> 0:21:56.250 side of things without risking too much in between. So, 0:21:56.580 --> 0:21:58.770 it's a very, very hard thing to get right. But I 0:21:58.770 --> 0:22:02.460 think if... Look, not to say if I'd have my time again, 0:22:02.460 --> 0:22:05.130 because there's no need to say that, it'd probably be 0:22:05.130 --> 0:22:10.649 more so just be open about conversations around that. And 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.359 don't make every conversation so knuckled down and try and 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.300 work out all the world's problems at once. It's a very 0:22:18.300 --> 0:22:20.669 slow process, so it takes a very long time to do. 0:22:21.390 --> 0:22:24.690 We're sort of hopefully getting through to the end bit 0:22:24.690 --> 0:22:28.619 now of transition of management, and stuff like that. So, 0:22:28.619 --> 0:22:31.320 I'm hoping that within the next six months, my wife 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.310 and I can move back to Ulah on farm where my workshop is, and 0:22:35.820 --> 0:22:40.020 work it side- by- side with Ulah and Evolve together. That's being 0:22:40.500 --> 0:22:41.159 all in one. 0:22:41.369 --> 0:22:44.220 So, are your siblings involved in the succession as well? 0:22:44.310 --> 0:22:47.159 Yeah, look, they are. As far as the management side 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.340 of Ulah goes, not so much. Look, they've all played 0:22:50.340 --> 0:22:55.230 a big part in Ulah and have an interest in it 0:22:55.380 --> 0:22:59.430 as being the family home, probably. And have helped. My 0:22:59.430 --> 0:23:03.780 younger sister, Prue has been here, and has been hands- 0:23:03.780 --> 0:23:08.820 on quite recently. But as far as the business sense goes, Rohan, 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.270 it's probably been more so my wife and myself, and 0:23:12.270 --> 0:23:16.109 my mum and dad looking at that. So, they're certainly involved. 0:23:16.109 --> 0:23:20.430 But as to the point of succeeding the business on for what it is, 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:25.320 it's just probably more so my wife and I. That's what we're interested in doing. 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:30.600 So, what strategies have you taken to transition ownership over? 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:32.700 We're still going through the throes of this now. I 0:23:32.700 --> 0:23:34.740 don't want to divulge too much, but look, I can 0:23:34.740 --> 0:23:38.040 say that's probably the trickiest thing about it. It's not 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.680