WEBVTT - 33 - Tony McNamara (The Great) 0:00:01.010 --> 0:00:17.549 From CurtCo Media. Welcome to another Stuck at Home Special 0:00:17.550 --> 0:00:20.920 of Hollywood Unscripted. I'm Jenny Curtis. And today our guest 0:00:20.959 --> 0:00:24.700 is an Oscar nominated, BAFTA winning, and now Emmy nominated 0:00:24.700 --> 0:00:28.639 screenwriter, playwright, and creator. Tony McNamara, it is so great 0:00:28.639 --> 0:00:29.700 to have you. Welcome. 0:00:30.090 --> 0:00:31.030 Hi Jenny. It's a pleasure 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.150 You're currently in Australia and it is first thing in the 0:00:35.150 --> 0:00:35.740 morning for you, isn't it? 0:00:35.740 --> 0:00:40.059 It's 7: 00 AM. Yeah. So apologies if I'm slow to start. 0:00:40.820 --> 0:00:43.500 The specials are called Stuck at Home because obviously we're 0:00:43.500 --> 0:00:46.629 stuck in quarantine, we're stuck at home, and so we kind of start out 0:00:46.629 --> 0:00:49.300 with a check in of how has quarantine been for you? 0:00:49.540 --> 0:00:51.830 I've been pretty lucky, really. I mean, we were making 0:00:51.830 --> 0:00:55.029 the show in Italy, in London, and it all happened and then we kind of came 0:00:55.029 --> 0:00:58.230 back to Australia. And we've been in Perth, Western Australia, 0:00:58.230 --> 0:01:00.770 which hasn't had a case in 120 days. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:01.550 Oh, wow. 0:01:01.890 --> 0:01:05.149 I had to quarantine twice, because each state in Australia, 0:01:05.590 --> 0:01:09.360 you have to quarantine if you change state. I mean, 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.530 it's been fun. My kids like it because I'm around 0:01:11.830 --> 0:01:15.410 all the time. But it's been ... I mean, Perth's good because there's no 0:01:15.410 --> 0:01:18.240 cases. There's very little restrictions and ... 0:01:18.530 --> 0:01:20.490 It's pretty much the perfect place to quarantine. 0:01:20.610 --> 0:01:22.940 Yeah. So in a way we came here for family reasons, but 0:01:22.940 --> 0:01:25.250 we got sort of lucky in coronavirus ways. 0:01:25.479 --> 0:01:28.529 Yeah. So I want to jump back to the beginning 0:01:28.530 --> 0:01:31.410 of your storytelling. Am I correct in that you didn't 0:01:31.410 --> 0:01:33.679 actually start writing until you were in your twenties because 0:01:33.679 --> 0:01:34.770 you worked in finance? 0:01:34.890 --> 0:01:39.119 Yeah. Worked is a strong term. Bumbled my way through. 0:01:39.819 --> 0:01:44.369 Yeah. I didn't really start till I was 22 or 23 or something. Yeah. I worked 0:01:44.369 --> 0:01:47.380 in finance in Australia and London for a bit, and 0:01:47.380 --> 0:01:50.850 was incredibly bad at it, which didn't seem to harm my 0:01:50.850 --> 0:01:52.830 career at all. But yeah, I did that for a 0:01:52.830 --> 0:01:55.980 few years and then traveled around. Did an Australian thing 0:01:56.170 --> 0:01:57.919 where you just go to Europe and do nothing for a 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.210 year, to rite a passage. And so I did that and in 0:02:01.210 --> 0:02:04.110 that time, I was always sort of liked books was 0:02:04.110 --> 0:02:05.660 my big thing when I was a kid, and then I 0:02:05.660 --> 0:02:09.200 just saw a lot of plays in London and started to think maybe 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.320 I could do that, was how I sort of foolishly 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:11.790 got there. 0:02:12.060 --> 0:02:15.470 Did you then just write or did you take playwriting classes? 0:02:15.730 --> 0:02:17.919 Well, I didn't really want to be a playwright. I kind of wanted 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:19.709 to be a novelist. And then I went and did 0:02:19.709 --> 0:02:22.959 this one year course at school in Australia, and they 0:02:22.959 --> 0:02:26.350 kind of had poetry or playwriting, and I didn't think 0:02:26.489 --> 0:02:29.340 I could do poetry. So I begged them to let 0:02:29.340 --> 0:02:31.959 me into playwriting, and as soon as I started writing scenes, 0:02:31.959 --> 0:02:35.869 I instinctively sort of went, "Oh, this feels like me." I mean, 0:02:35.870 --> 0:02:39.739 I did actually fail the course, but not because of the 0:02:39.739 --> 0:02:43.530 playwriting. I can't really spell and I can't grammar, whatever 0:02:43.829 --> 0:02:48.049 that means. I can't speak grammar, let alone write grammar. I 0:02:48.049 --> 0:02:50.589 think playwriting, as soon as I started doing that, that's 0:02:50.590 --> 0:02:53.550 what I wanted to do. From there I just started writing plays and I was 0:02:53.870 --> 0:02:57.370 drifting in and out of finance and waiting tables and 0:02:57.370 --> 0:02:58.249 becoming a chef. 0:02:58.359 --> 0:02:58.911 All of the things. 0:02:58.911 --> 0:03:02.750 Debt collecting and just lots of weird jobs while I was writing 0:03:02.750 --> 0:03:03.519 plays. Yeah. 0:03:03.790 --> 0:03:05.790 Did your first play get picked up by the Sydney 0:03:05.790 --> 0:03:06.340 Theater Company? 0:03:06.820 --> 0:03:09.440 Yeah. Yeah, it did. I was lucky in that they have a 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.470 playwright, and I think I still have a playwright's conference, which is mostly 0:03:12.470 --> 0:03:16.700 young playwrights. Everyone goes to Canberra and you spend three weeks drinking 0:03:16.700 --> 0:03:20.079 heavily and really good people come and direct your workshop 0:03:20.079 --> 0:03:22.669 of your play. And I was lucky because I got 0:03:22.669 --> 0:03:26.070 Michael Gow who's one of our great playwrights. And he 0:03:26.109 --> 0:03:28.370 took me under his wing and was really great, because even 0:03:28.450 --> 0:03:31.470 though he directed the workshop, he's a great playwright. So he was 0:03:31.470 --> 0:03:34.739 really instrumental in then getting it to Sydney Theater Company 0:03:34.739 --> 0:03:36.950 and getting it on. So I was lucky that it's only 0:03:36.950 --> 0:03:38.710 my first play and I was like 25. 0:03:38.830 --> 0:03:39.700 What was it about? 0:03:40.060 --> 0:03:43.670 It was about a kid who's had these horrible sort of 0:03:44.230 --> 0:03:47.300 hippy baby boomer parents who comes out of a mental 0:03:47.300 --> 0:03:51.129 institution expecting them to be home but they've gone on holiday and left 0:03:51.130 --> 0:03:54.409 him just notes and food around the house and inspiring 0:03:54.410 --> 0:03:58.070 aphorisms. It's like a generation gap kind of comedy, I guess. 0:03:58.550 --> 0:04:00.759 Now did that also get you into film school? 0:04:01.050 --> 0:04:05.640 Yeah, basically. Yeah. Because I haven't really written any screenplay 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.969 or anything to get into film school. I think my 0:04:07.970 --> 0:04:11.089 brothers and I hastily made some like terrible three minute 0:04:11.089 --> 0:04:12.920 short film and put it with the play. But the 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:14.550 play was kind of what got me in, yeah. 0:04:14.589 --> 0:04:16.779 And what did you study at film school specifically? 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.700 I studied screenwriting. Yeah. Australian Film School's like very small. 0:04:20.700 --> 0:04:22.969 And at the time we studied everything, which was what was 0:04:22.969 --> 0:04:26.620 good about it. Because there's only 15 kids in your year. There's 0:04:27.070 --> 0:04:30.989 like two screenwriters, two directors, two DOPs, two editors. And 0:04:31.409 --> 0:04:34.400 so then you rotate through all the disciplines. So you 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.860 spent two months screenwriting and then you go ... like I 0:04:37.860 --> 0:04:40.979 edited films and documentaries. And camera was just a bust 0:04:40.979 --> 0:04:41.760 for me because I can't think like that. But you were in 0:04:42.430 --> 0:04:46.830 all the departments and really learned all the aspects of it, 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:48.490 which was what was good about that school. 0:04:48.710 --> 0:04:51.669 I love that you went to school in your mid twenties because 0:04:51.669 --> 0:04:53.690 so much, at least in America, we're told if we 0:04:53.690 --> 0:04:55.919 don't know what we're doing at 18, we're probably not going 0:04:56.140 --> 0:04:56.610 to make it. 0:04:57.050 --> 0:05:01.539 Yeah. They probably still have it. But at the film school you had to be, I think, 22 was 0:05:01.539 --> 0:05:06.099 the young, stupid guy. And I think it's because they want people who really love it. Because they had a 0:05:06.099 --> 0:05:10.540 whole philosophy about why the film school was like that. I think it was kind of a good philosophy. 0:05:11.130 --> 0:05:12.810 That's kind of the same as having to learn all 0:05:12.810 --> 0:05:15.469 of the dynamics of filmmaking Because you need life experience. 0:05:15.469 --> 0:05:17.659 You need to know what everybody else's job on set is. 0:05:17.659 --> 0:05:20.650 Yeah. I think so. It was a really lucky break to get in 0:05:20.650 --> 0:05:23.370 there because they were really good teachers and lots of people 0:05:23.370 --> 0:05:24.400 I still know who I went to film school with. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.900 And then out of film school though, you went back 0:05:27.900 --> 0:05:30.229 to writing plays for the Sydney Theater Company, or was 0:05:30.229 --> 0:05:31.049 that all throughout? 0:05:31.500 --> 0:05:35.599 I threw away film school. I think during film school, 0:05:35.599 --> 0:05:37.839 maybe the first play went on when I was in 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.029 second year, and then I wrote another play which they put 0:05:41.029 --> 0:05:43.249 on in the next year, which did really well. And then 0:05:43.250 --> 0:05:46.229 they kicked it up the next year to their main stage 0:05:46.229 --> 0:05:48.839 season. And then they took me on as playwriting resident. 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.380 So the playwriting thing was happening in tandem with film 0:05:52.380 --> 0:05:55.969 school. I got out of film school and I was like, " Oh, do 0:05:55.969 --> 0:05:58.250 I really want to keep waiting tables?" And then they 0:05:58.250 --> 0:06:01.380 offered me residency as playwright, it's where you get paid. And 0:06:01.450 --> 0:06:03.239 my play was going on. And so I was like, " 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:04.080 I'll just do that." 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:05.409 Sounds like a good choice. 0:06:06.109 --> 0:06:07.810 Yeah. Because then I seemed to have a play on every year 0:06:07.810 --> 0:06:09.460 or two years there for a long time. 0:06:10.180 --> 0:06:12.400 And one of those plays was a play called The 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.409 Great, about Catherine the Great. 0:06:14.409 --> 0:06:15.609 Certainly was, yeah. 0:06:15.859 --> 0:06:19.849 And that's what sparked this Hulu TV show that you now 0:06:19.849 --> 0:06:23.099 have called The Great. You wrote for an actress named 0:06:23.099 --> 0:06:23.879 Robyn Nevin. 0:06:24.140 --> 0:06:27.140 Yeah. Robyn was like head of the company and she's one 0:06:27.140 --> 0:06:29.729 of our great actors and she was like, " I keep 0:06:29.729 --> 0:06:33.359 programming your plays, so you should write me one." And then 0:06:33.359 --> 0:06:35.659 I was looking around trying to think what I could 0:06:35.659 --> 0:06:37.960 write for her. Then I just stumbled upon, I think it was 0:06:38.130 --> 0:06:41.699 like three minutes of something documentary about Catherine the Great 0:06:42.650 --> 0:06:43.559 or I think I read something. I'm still not even sure. But I was 0:06:44.390 --> 0:06:47.520 just like, " Oh, I've never done that." And I'd written four contemporary 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.469 plays and I was like, " I'll try and to do that." In the end she didn't 0:06:50.310 --> 0:06:53.650 do the play, she went and did something else. But she 0:06:53.650 --> 0:06:56.189 did get it. Her, and she's left the company, and 0:06:56.510 --> 0:07:00.550 Cate Blanchett and Andrew, her husband, took over and then they produced it. 0:07:00.550 --> 0:07:04.000 Was it hard writing for someone who then you had to 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:05.670 have another actress play the role? 0:07:05.969 --> 0:07:08.460 Not really. I mean, even if I know the act 0:07:08.460 --> 0:07:09.970 that he's going to play it, for some reason I can't think 0:07:09.970 --> 0:07:12.590 about them when I write it. Like I have some 0:07:12.610 --> 0:07:15.960 other voice in my head about that he's the character and I don't 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.379 really think in the actors voice in a way. So no. I 0:07:19.500 --> 0:07:21.070 was disappointed because I really wanted her to do it 0:07:21.070 --> 0:07:23.760 back, but I didn't go, " Oh no. The play's ruined." 0:07:24.030 --> 0:07:27.070 Yeah. And then how long after that did you turn it 0:07:27.070 --> 0:07:27.960 into a screenplay? 0:07:28.070 --> 0:07:31.680 Gillian Armstrong, great Australian director, saw it and wanted it. 0:07:32.260 --> 0:07:34.420 I think I'd written a screenplay a few years before, 0:07:34.570 --> 0:07:38.050 but I'd sort of stopped being mostly theater and dabbling 0:07:38.050 --> 0:07:40.340 a little bit in TV. Working with her I wrote 0:07:40.340 --> 0:07:42.590 the screenplay and it was fun and I had a good time, 0:07:42.590 --> 0:07:44.450 but it was probably two years after. It was a 0:07:44.450 --> 0:07:45.690 while before they optioned it. 0:07:45.870 --> 0:07:48.870 Jumping into The Favourite. Deborah Davis had done a pass of 0:07:49.570 --> 0:07:52.619 a dramatic version of The Favourite. And Yorgos was looking to 0:07:52.620 --> 0:07:54.920 change the tone and that's why he found you? 0:07:55.060 --> 0:07:58.509 Yeah, basically. I mean he liked the story, but it was a very straight 0:07:58.510 --> 0:08:02.130 rendering, I guess, which isn't really his thing. He was 0:08:02.130 --> 0:08:04.760 just reading lots of screenplays and trying to find a 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.619 writer he felt like would get what he wanted to 0:08:07.970 --> 0:08:11.220 do and had a voice that he kind of got. 0:08:11.390 --> 0:08:14.189 Now, when you started doing passes on it, did you 0:08:14.410 --> 0:08:17.290 continue to work with Deborah, or was her pass number 0:08:17.290 --> 0:08:18.770 one and then you took it from there? 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.090 Yeah. Because I didn't ever really met Deborah until well 0:08:22.130 --> 0:08:25.070 after the film was made. Because we sort of re engineered the whole 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.559 thing and got rid of the history and changed what 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:28.220 we wanted. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:29.230 Screw history. 0:08:29.310 --> 0:08:33.400 Yeah. We were like, "If you want a history lesson, read a book." Then he 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.160 and I spent a long time working on it together. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.290 And while you were working on it, you started the 0:08:39.290 --> 0:08:41.160 pilot to The Great, is that correct? 0:08:41.329 --> 0:08:43.630 I don't know. Around the time we were shooting The 0:08:43.630 --> 0:08:47.350 Favourite, I was thinking about TV and what I wanted to 0:08:47.350 --> 0:08:50.320 do. And I'd been writing some pilots and stuff. But 0:08:50.350 --> 0:08:53.520 I know Marian Macgowan, who's been exec producer with me 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.550 on The Great, she was the original optioner of the film. 0:08:56.550 --> 0:08:59.040 So she'd always kept me going when I'd be like, " 0:08:59.100 --> 0:09:01.670 I think we're done." Because I felt like I couldn't tell the story 0:09:01.670 --> 0:09:03.929 properly in that time. So my wife is like, " Well, you 0:09:03.929 --> 0:09:07.550 love TV. It should be TV." As always, she was right. 0:09:07.860 --> 0:09:10.730 I think I heard you say in another interview that 0:09:10.730 --> 0:09:14.160 you hadn't really seen how the show would click as 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.660 a whole until you saw Nicholas Hoult acting in The Favourite. 0:09:16.660 --> 0:09:19.900 Not that I couldn't say click. I was just aware that 0:09:19.900 --> 0:09:23.819 casting ... just always think if you cast well ... and I 0:09:23.819 --> 0:09:26.800 think we'd thought about in the film version we've been 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.329 casting and that was always a role, even though we'd 0:09:30.329 --> 0:09:32.760 found some great Catherine's when we were attaching people to the 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.429 film version, I'd never found Peter. I never was that gung ho 0:09:36.429 --> 0:09:39.040 to make it because I was always like, " That has 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.439 to work." And he's got to be comic, and not malicious but 0:09:42.589 --> 0:09:45.329 crazy. And then I saw Nick in rehearsal, we did 0:09:45.329 --> 0:09:47.709 three weeks of rehearsal for The Favorite, and I think 0:09:47.709 --> 0:09:49.540 after a couple of days with Nick I was like, " Well, 0:09:49.540 --> 0:09:52.420 he could do it." He's amazing. He really gets what 0:09:52.490 --> 0:09:54.260 the material is and he's so brutal 0:09:54.650 --> 0:09:57.240 After knowing that you wanted him, what was the process 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.839 like? You go up and tap him on the shoulder 0:09:58.839 --> 0:10:00.969 after a rehearsal and say, " I have another project for 0:10:00.970 --> 0:10:01.280 you," or? 0:10:01.281 --> 0:10:03.990 I knew I wanted Elle as well, so I'd send them 0:10:03.990 --> 0:10:07.099 both the screenplay. I said, " Would you guys be interested 0:10:07.100 --> 0:10:10.620 in this?" And then they really loved it. And then I 0:10:10.620 --> 0:10:12.260 sort of went, " I think I want to do it 0:10:12.260 --> 0:10:16.030 as TV though." And then they were really excited about that idea. Because Nick hadn't 0:10:16.030 --> 0:10:19.330 done TV in a long time, Al had never done TV. So it sort of worked as simply as that. I just sent it 0:10:21.510 --> 0:10:23.089 to both of them and had a chat with each 0:10:23.089 --> 0:10:25.830 and they were both really into it straight away. 0:10:26.339 --> 0:10:29.170 So Elle Fanning plays Catherine. And she's also an EP 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:31.070 on the show as well. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:31.380 Yeah. 0:10:31.470 --> 0:10:34.410 What was her role in the development of the story 0:10:34.410 --> 0:10:36.990 and the character? How did she partake in that? 0:10:37.079 --> 0:10:39.130 Basically she came and took it out with me when I 0:10:39.130 --> 0:10:41.229 pitched it. Like I'd sent the pilot out and they were 0:10:41.230 --> 0:10:44.290 networks interested. And then she talked about why she loved it 0:10:44.290 --> 0:10:46.579 and why it was a good story for young women, but 0:10:46.579 --> 0:10:49.809 she had input in costume and just every day. Like 0:10:49.809 --> 0:10:51.370 I think the good thing about Elle is she's got 0:10:51.370 --> 0:10:55.209 a great eye, and I think for both Nick and her, they really know 0:10:55.209 --> 0:10:58.089 what show we're making. That's half the battle when you're 0:10:58.089 --> 0:11:00.059 trying to make something a little bit different, because the 0:11:00.059 --> 0:11:02.699 tone of the show is so specific and what I want it 0:11:02.699 --> 0:11:04.949 to look like, I was really specific. And she knew 0:11:04.949 --> 0:11:07.390 all that and so she was always like on those 0:11:07.390 --> 0:11:10.100 things. And then she would have these great ideas. 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We never did, we never will, 0:11:53.569 --> 0:11:54.310 we just find one ... 0:11:54.311 --> 0:11:57.240 The beauty of rock climbing is that you can only focus 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:58.209 on what's right in front of you. 0:11:58.910 --> 0:12:01.210 And so our America life begins. 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.510 We may need to stay apart, but let's create together. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:10.900 Available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece at curtco. com/ amomentofyourtime. 0:12:10.900 --> 0:12:24.189 The rest of the cast is fantastic. You probably had 0:12:24.189 --> 0:12:26.869 to search far and wide to find these people. What 0:12:26.870 --> 0:12:28.390 was the casting process like? 0:12:28.510 --> 0:12:31.750 It was sort of easy in a way because it was a time that I 0:12:31.750 --> 0:12:34.080 knew they had to be great dramatic actors, but also 0:12:34.270 --> 0:12:37.319 their first instinct had to be comic. But they also 0:12:37.319 --> 0:12:39.949 had to have dramatic chops, I guess. So most of 0:12:39.949 --> 0:12:45.089 them are really experienced theater actors. I sort of slightly looked 0:12:45.089 --> 0:12:47.209 for people who'd done a lot of theater. They're all 0:12:47.209 --> 0:12:49.949 very good comic actors who really can turn on the 0:12:49.949 --> 0:12:52.750 drama when you need it. They just play the truth all 0:12:52.750 --> 0:12:56.860 the time, but they know where the comic truth is and they know where the dramatic truth is. 0:12:57.230 --> 0:12:59.750 And I never have to explain any of that. They just instinctively get it. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.540 You didn't bring them back like hundreds of times to 0:13:03.540 --> 0:13:04.530 make sure they could nail it? 0:13:04.530 --> 0:13:09.001 No. I think maybe they did one and maybe they did a call back. I always just (inaudible) 0:13:09.001 --> 0:13:12.469 with them. Because you're with people a long time so you want to like them. 0:13:12.839 --> 0:13:15.859 For your writer's room you've talked about how you view 0:13:15.860 --> 0:13:19.459 this show as a contemporary story. How did you relate 0:13:19.459 --> 0:13:21.929 that to your writers and get everyone on the same 0:13:21.929 --> 0:13:23.249 page to tell this story? 0:13:23.420 --> 0:13:26.160 It was hard, I guess. I'd already written two episodes and we 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.719 had shot the pilot so they had the pilot to 0:13:28.719 --> 0:13:31.530 watch. Because we shot the pilot and then we got green 0:13:31.530 --> 0:13:33.630 room lit. In that period I had to deliver like 0:13:33.630 --> 0:13:37.130 a pilot and the second episode. So I'd basically done that. 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.010 And then they all read the play and various versions of the 0:13:40.010 --> 0:13:42.819 screenplay and I stuffed the room trying to think of 0:13:42.819 --> 0:13:46.540 different aspects that each writer would bring. So some of 0:13:46.540 --> 0:13:49.090 the writers knew why they were coming, in a way. They knew they 0:13:49.219 --> 0:13:52.469 were there because they had a real angle on contemporary politics 0:13:52.469 --> 0:13:56.699 and a real deep knowledge. And there was just younger voices than 0:13:56.699 --> 0:13:59.589 me, because it's a 21 year old woman who's driving the 0:13:59.589 --> 0:14:02.709 show. So there had to be voices that were strongly 0:14:02.780 --> 0:14:06.160 that voice. And then there were older writers who were bringing 0:14:06.209 --> 0:14:10.099 a structural thing and experience to be on a show 0:14:10.099 --> 0:14:12.290 that it was tonally trying to ride a bit of 0:14:12.290 --> 0:14:14.829 a line. So it was just that. It wasn't a big room. It's maybe 0:14:14.829 --> 0:14:17.249 four or five people. I was always like, " If we're 0:14:17.250 --> 0:14:19.869 starting a story halfway through I'll always go, now give 0:14:19.870 --> 0:14:22.210 me the contemporary version of that story we're telling." 0:14:22.610 --> 0:14:25.910 Is it true that you had a white board of trivia 0:14:25.910 --> 0:14:27.110 about that time period? 0:14:27.190 --> 0:14:27.369 Yeah. 0:14:27.430 --> 0:14:29.080 Would you guys just kind of throw a dart and 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.840 pick one or how would you go about that? 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.610 Amelia does a lot of the research, and the other writers too, that 0:14:35.610 --> 0:14:36.850 they'd sort of, not so much about Catherine, just like 0:14:36.850 --> 0:14:41.440 the era. All this dumb shit and funny stuff about the way 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.220 people thought or weird details like the lemons and the contraception 0:14:45.220 --> 0:14:45.320 and all like- 0:14:45.660 --> 0:14:46.520 The lemon thing is bizarre. 0:14:47.710 --> 0:14:52.170 Yeah. That was all true. So even though I'm not like a massive slavish to history clearly, we 0:14:52.170 --> 0:14:56.450 do have a list of stuff that I think suits the time of the show that we kind of, 0:14:56.550 --> 0:14:59.070 as we're storying we kind of go, " Oh, what would that be?" You know? 0:14:59.500 --> 0:15:02.650 Yeah. Was the pregnancy test made up or was that a 0:15:03.140 --> 0:15:03.460 thing they did? 0:15:03.460 --> 0:15:05.609 The pregnancy test is true, as well. 0:15:05.610 --> 0:15:05.800 What? 0:15:06.830 --> 0:15:12.210 In fact, in the nineties, I don't know whether it was like Columbia or something did the actual 0:15:12.210 --> 0:15:17.260 test, and it's 92% effective for predicting pregnancies. 0:15:17.330 --> 0:15:17.830 That's wild. 0:15:17.830 --> 0:15:21.760 Yeah. History is the weird gift that keeps giving, I have to say 0:15:22.010 --> 0:15:26.629 There's so much absurd, delightful detail in this show. When 0:15:26.630 --> 0:15:28.540 you're thinking, because you write a lot of comedy, do 0:15:28.540 --> 0:15:31.030 you think in terms of what will be funny? Or 0:15:31.030 --> 0:15:33.489 how do you find the humor in what you're doing? 0:15:34.110 --> 0:15:35.720 I think the characters are well built so I'm just 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.940 like, write character, don't write jokes. We never consciously write 0:15:39.940 --> 0:15:43.210 jokes. But there's always like if we've got a story, 0:15:43.350 --> 0:15:46.290 I'll be like, " Where's the comic edge in that story? 0:15:46.590 --> 0:15:48.700 How are we telling that story so that it's our 0:15:48.700 --> 0:15:51.620 show?" In a way that's probably the most I do 0:15:51.780 --> 0:15:54.869 in terms of comic drive, is the way we're telling 0:15:54.870 --> 0:15:58.090 the story. I don't really individually go, "Are the jokes funny?" Because 0:15:58.790 --> 0:16:02.640 script wise, I write 90% of it. So I just assume if I'm true to 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.729 my characters and my actors, because if they've got a performance it and 0:16:05.729 --> 0:16:08.000 I never want them reaching for comedy and they know 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.749 that. I can't reach for comedy in the scripts and then go, " 0:16:11.750 --> 0:16:14.399 But don't reach for comedy." I can't remember, but I 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.810 used to have this thing, and maybe it was Matt Williams who 0:16:16.810 --> 0:16:19.280 wrote Roseanne, I think he had make it real, make 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.260 it funny. But make it real first. So we sort 0:16:22.260 --> 0:16:24.710 of try and do that, even though it's real to our world, 0:16:25.390 --> 0:16:28.009 we sometimes do die. Let's tell the story differently because 0:16:28.130 --> 0:16:29.430 it's not funny enough, for sure. 0:16:29.430 --> 0:16:32.600 On the flip side, it's such a violent story, but 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.440 it's also so casual in the violence that it doesn't 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:36.910 feel overwhelming. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.600 Yeah. I mean, I suppose in showing the writers what sort of show I did have a bunch 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:46.470 of things that the world was, and one of the first ones was casually violent. 0:16:46.690 --> 0:16:49.260 And I know Elle said she was nervous before doing 0:16:49.260 --> 0:16:51.250 this because she doesn't do a whole lot of comedy. 0:16:51.479 --> 0:16:54.060 Yeah. Yeah. She was quite nervous. She didn't let it 0:16:54.130 --> 0:16:56.600 on too much. This story is narratively a drama, and 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.760 execution wise a comedy. And it had to work as 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.630 a drama and I knew she could make it work 0:17:01.630 --> 0:17:04.060 as a drama in an amazing way. I'd seen her 0:17:04.060 --> 0:17:06.300 in Ginger and Rose and she had this charm and 0:17:06.629 --> 0:17:10.239 funniness that I thought would come out if she was 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.129 given the right material. It does take a sort of 0:17:13.129 --> 0:17:19.250 fearlessness that she hadn't expected, like watching Nick or Doug 0:17:19.250 --> 0:17:22.409 or Belinda just go for it. But she really began to 0:17:22.409 --> 0:17:25.489 revel in that. And she really found her place with 0:17:25.490 --> 0:17:27.500 the comedy more and more as the show goes on. 0:17:27.540 --> 0:17:30.669 And her comedy is a different comedy from everyone else, but 0:17:30.669 --> 0:17:31.629 she's really great at it. 0:17:31.980 --> 0:17:34.159 Yeah. That's why it's special because she's supposed to be 0:17:34.159 --> 0:17:35.590 different from everybody else. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.010 Exactly. She did amazingly well because she's a really brave actor 0:17:39.010 --> 0:17:41.340 and she just wants to be better and she's just 0:17:41.340 --> 0:17:42.230 a ultimate professional. 0:17:43.230 --> 0:17:46.939 Talking about bravery, as an actor at least, the sex 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.169 in the show is rampant, which it could be a 0:17:51.169 --> 0:17:54.270 really intimidating thing to look at as an actor. But 0:17:54.270 --> 0:17:58.419 it's interesting because you never put sex for sex sake 0:17:58.460 --> 0:18:01.149 in the show. Everything has a purpose and it's telling 0:18:01.149 --> 0:18:04.010 a story and I guess I just want to hear 0:18:04.010 --> 0:18:06.100 more about your process with that. If that's not a 0:18:07.980 --> 0:18:08.021 weird question. 0:18:08.021 --> 0:18:11.899 It's kind of a weird question. I mean, I had a view obviously. Originally I was like, " Well, there'll 0:18:11.899 --> 0:18:14.269 be a fair bit of sex because everyone's locked in 0:18:14.270 --> 0:18:17.639 a giant apartment building drinking vodka all day." I was 0:18:17.639 --> 0:18:21.770 just conscious of like all the sex being storytelling and 0:18:21.770 --> 0:18:25.810 being character driven and dynamic driven. Like the dynamic between 0:18:25.810 --> 0:18:28.609 Peter and Catherine and the purpose of their sex becomes 0:18:29.020 --> 0:18:31.989 getting a baby. And in fact they have very little physical 0:18:31.990 --> 0:18:34.739 connection, and then Georgina and Peter is a different thing. 0:18:34.740 --> 0:18:36.889 And then Catherine and Leo had to be a very 0:18:36.899 --> 0:18:39.600 different thing. So it was all like the sex should 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.929 be storytelling, it's not just generic TV sex. It was really 0:18:43.929 --> 0:18:45.720 kind of out of that. And then the actors was 0:18:45.770 --> 0:18:48.740 totally up for that idea. They sort of liked the 0:18:48.740 --> 0:18:51.409 idea that they weren't just being told, " Go and have sex." It 0:18:52.389 --> 0:18:55.189 was very specific what they had to do. It's even 0:18:55.220 --> 0:18:58.520 specific things like Charity, who plays Georgina, would bring me 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.550 in, we'd talk about this particular sex scene because of 0:19:01.550 --> 0:19:03.619 what's happening in the story with Peter, should it be 0:19:03.619 --> 0:19:07.570 different? And should she take a different position? So it 0:19:07.570 --> 0:19:11.210 was all very like how the characters were and in 0:19:11.210 --> 0:19:14.560 their dynamic at that particular point. And also on a show like this I was 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.810 just probably obsessive about tone. I was very much like 0:19:18.810 --> 0:19:22.359