WEBVTT - 34 - Liz Tigelaar 0:00:01.050 --> 0:00:02.210 From CurtCo Media- 0:00:02.500 --> 0:00:04.300 There's no place like Hollywood. 0:00:10.610 --> 0:00:14.010 Welcome to another special episode of Hollywood Unscripted: Stuck At 0:00:14.010 --> 0:00:16.960 Home. I'm Jenny Curtis, and today, I have the gift 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.159 of virtually sitting down with writer and producer Liz Tigelaar, 0:00:20.180 --> 0:00:22.939 who has a plethora of television work under her belt, 0:00:22.939 --> 0:00:26.980 including show running the acclaimed Hulu series, Little Fires Everywhere. 0:00:27.150 --> 0:00:29.180 Liz, thank you so much for joining me today. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:29.990 Yeah, thank you for having me. 0:00:31.389 --> 0:00:33.750 I want to start with a big congratulations, because Little 0:00:33.750 --> 0:00:37.870 Fires Everywhere is up for five Emmys. I'm sure that's 0:00:37.870 --> 0:00:38.650 surreal. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.030 Yeah, I can't believe it. It felt like such a 0:00:41.030 --> 0:00:45.330 hard category, and I'm so glad we slipped in. The show 0:00:45.330 --> 0:00:48.499 of course, I loved that nomination because it really represents 0:00:48.839 --> 0:00:51.679 every single person who worked on it. But, yeah, all of 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:56.050 the nominations for individual reasons are all so incredibly meaningful 0:00:56.770 --> 0:00:58.560 and we're just honored to be included. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.980 So, right now these series of specials with Hollywood Unscripted 0:01:01.980 --> 0:01:04.819 we're calling Stuck At Home because of quarantine. So, I 0:01:04.819 --> 0:01:06.529 want to start off with a little bit of like, how 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:07.500 are you doing? 0:01:07.740 --> 0:01:12.030 I mean, it's been interesting. It's like, really ridden a 0:01:12.030 --> 0:01:14.729 wave in the last five months. We kind of had 0:01:14.729 --> 0:01:17.130 our system for a while and then we actually were 0:01:17.130 --> 0:01:19.180 supposed to go back east to see our families and we 0:01:19.220 --> 0:01:21.199 were supposed to fly and we got freaked out, and 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.949 so we just rented a minivan and just took our kid 0:01:23.950 --> 0:01:26.810 and dog and drove across the country, and never peed 0:01:26.810 --> 0:01:30.899 in a public restroom. It was an adventure, but it 0:01:30.899 --> 0:01:33.649 was amazing. And I think it really... I don't know. 0:01:33.649 --> 0:01:36.839 It just changed my family's whole outlook on everything, really. 0:01:36.839 --> 0:01:40.940 And so it's been hard obviously, and easier for us 0:01:40.940 --> 0:01:43.319 I think than a lot of people, but we keep 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.179 talking about going back to normal and thinking what is 0:01:46.179 --> 0:01:48.620 normal, and do we really want to go back to normal? 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.139 What does it look like now? I guess it's been 0:01:51.140 --> 0:01:52.460 hard, but illuminating. You know? 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.210 I want to dig into Little Fires in a little bit, but I 0:01:55.210 --> 0:01:58.930 want to start at the beginning, if that's okay. Your 0:01:58.930 --> 0:02:02.150 career has spanned some really high profile TV, reaching all 0:02:02.150 --> 0:02:04.620 the way back to Dawson's Creek, which I can find 0:02:04.620 --> 0:02:07.840 is your first thing. That is a huge show to 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:09.889 start on, and I believe you were an assistant, is 0:02:09.889 --> 0:02:10.540 that correct? 0:02:10.620 --> 0:02:13.419 Yeah, I actually started as an intern right out of 0:02:13.419 --> 0:02:16.669 college. I graduated college and drove out to LA and 0:02:16.669 --> 0:02:19.510 started interning at Dawson's Creek because the person who hired the 0:02:19.510 --> 0:02:22.720 interns went to Ithaca, where I went. And she hired 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.100 me, and really it started my whole career. It was 0:02:26.100 --> 0:02:28.669 a great place to be at the time and I 0:02:28.669 --> 0:02:30.970 hadn't really watched the show. It premiered when I was 0:02:30.989 --> 0:02:34.109 a senior in college basically, and I didn't know anything 0:02:34.109 --> 0:02:36.250 about it. But I got the VHS tapes and I 0:02:36.250 --> 0:02:40.040 watched the whole show one weekend in my little crappy 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:44.389 apartment, and I loved it. I was like, " Sarah McLaughlin, 0:02:44.389 --> 0:02:47.689 Edwin McCain, (inaudible) like Joey on the other side of the creek." 0:02:48.700 --> 0:02:51.410 I just was like, " Oh my gosh, I'm on the greatest show ever." 0:02:51.799 --> 0:02:54.529 It was awesome. There were all these writers there at 0:02:54.530 --> 0:02:57.829 the time, you know? Mike White, and obviously Kevin Williamson 0:02:57.829 --> 0:03:00.519 and Greg Berlanti was a staff writer, and I mean, 0:03:00.530 --> 0:03:03.329 it was just this kind of who's who of everyone 0:03:03.329 --> 0:03:05.940 who would go on to be show runners, and Ruben 0:03:05.940 --> 0:03:08.500 Fleischer, the director, he was a PA with me. And 0:03:08.500 --> 0:03:10.709 I mean, it was fun. I kind of worked through 0:03:10.709 --> 0:03:14.669 all the assistant jobs that you could do. I did 0:03:14.669 --> 0:03:18.919 some weird stuff, and then eventually co- wrote a freelance 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.480 episode with my writing partner at the time and then 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.620 eventually moved on. But some of my very best friends 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.600 in LA are still a group of women who I 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:28.679 met on Dawson's. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.530 Your writing partner was Holly Henderson, correct? 0:03:31.700 --> 0:03:31.929 Yep. 0:03:32.169 --> 0:03:35.790 And you did several things together, including novels about Dawson's 0:03:35.790 --> 0:03:36.060 Creek? 0:03:36.650 --> 0:03:41.330 Well, that was the weird stuff. So, Paul Stupin wanted to 0:03:41.330 --> 0:03:44.440 do like... We'd always do a scary episode, like a 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.860 Blair Witch episode or some sort of Halloween episode or 0:03:47.860 --> 0:03:52.369 whatever. It was almost like if you combined Dawson's Creek 0:03:52.369 --> 0:03:57.150 and Scooby- Doo. It was like mystery series. And so, 0:03:58.140 --> 0:04:01.900 of course all of the writers were like, " No." And 0:04:01.900 --> 0:04:04.950 all of the assistants were like, " We'll write them." And so 0:04:05.020 --> 0:04:08.320 basically, all the assistants on Dawson's at some point were 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.820 credited with a Dawson's Creek mystery novel, and I think 0:04:11.820 --> 0:04:13.969 I got the distinct honor of co- writing two. 0:04:15.250 --> 0:04:15.790 That's awesome. 0:04:15.970 --> 0:04:17.740 But I mean, at the time it was just like, " 0:04:17.820 --> 0:04:19.770 Oh my gosh, I'll write whatever. Let's write in these 0:04:19.770 --> 0:04:23.159 characters' voices." And I can remember my car breaking down 0:04:23.159 --> 0:04:26.570 and sitting at Toyota, plunking out a Dawson's Creek mystery novel, 0:04:27.050 --> 0:04:29.859 waiting for it to get fixed. It was a time. 0:04:29.979 --> 0:04:31.929 We did a lot of weird things like that. It 0:04:31.930 --> 0:04:34.440 was kind of like, say yes to anything that involves 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.839 getting paid to write, was our motto. 0:04:37.029 --> 0:04:40.169 And so Holly and you worked together on Dawson's Creek, 0:04:40.169 --> 0:04:42.670 and the novels, and then something called Totally Spies! 0:04:42.940 --> 0:04:43.510 That was a cartoon. 0:04:43.510 --> 0:04:46.609 I mean, the say yes to anything, that's awesome. 0:04:46.909 --> 0:04:46.969 Yes. 0:04:47.070 --> 0:04:49.659 Starting your career as a writer as a team, what 0:04:49.659 --> 0:04:51.539 were the benefits to that? When did you decide it 0:04:51.539 --> 0:04:53.710 was time to move on? Do you co- write with 0:04:53.710 --> 0:04:56.169 people anymore? I mean, besides writer's rooms? 0:04:56.300 --> 0:05:00.229 Not really. I mean, sometimes now in a more supervisory 0:05:00.229 --> 0:05:03.839 role. I'm doing it again, and I actually really enjoy 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.260 it. I mean, I love the collaboration of pairing up 0:05:06.349 --> 0:05:10.010 and at the time, it was such a valuable partnership. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.960 I was so lost when I moved out here. I 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.880 asked my parents if for my birthday, they would let 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.589 me take a writing class in the Valley, where someone 0:05:17.589 --> 0:05:19.270 teaches a writing class. And you're like, " Okay," and you 0:05:19.270 --> 0:05:22.409 go on Saturdays or whatever, and they would read whatever 0:05:22.409 --> 0:05:24.210 spec script you were working on, and they didn't have 0:05:24.210 --> 0:05:26.059 a script to read that week, so they were like, " 0:05:26.089 --> 0:05:27.810 Hey, do you have any scripts?" And I was like, " 0:05:27.810 --> 0:05:30.470 Well, I wrote a news radio script in college." They were like, " 0:05:30.830 --> 0:05:32.849 Let's read it." And I'm like, " Oh my gosh, they 0:05:32.849 --> 0:05:34.549 must have read it and loved it, and now we're 0:05:34.550 --> 0:05:37.450 reading my script in front of the class. So, I 0:05:37.450 --> 0:05:40.240 dragged to the Valley, they read my script. It is 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:45.630 so horrible, it's so painful. The script is clearly so 0:05:45.630 --> 0:05:50.109 bad. I went into the bathroom and just burst into 0:05:50.109 --> 0:05:52.190 tears. I mean, first I cried in front of everybody. 0:05:52.460 --> 0:05:55.290 Then I collected myself and appropriately moved to the bathroom, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.919 and then I was like, " I'm moving back to Connecticut. I'm going to teach 0:05:57.919 --> 0:06:00.640 Kindergarten. I don't know, there's another career path for me." 0:06:01.029 --> 0:06:04.020 And Holly miraculously was like, " We could write together," and 0:06:04.020 --> 0:06:07.320 I was like, " Yes!" I was like, " I don't know 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.859 what I'm doing!" And so we did. We wrote so 0:06:09.859 --> 0:06:13.089 many specs. We wrote together for a long time. Eventually, 0:06:13.089 --> 0:06:16.140 she started dating somebody and became writing partners with him. 0:06:16.430 --> 0:06:18.490 But it was at a time after we had kind 0:06:18.500 --> 0:06:21.000 of dissolved our partnership, and I think any dissolving of 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.369 a partnership isn't always an easy thing, but I think 0:06:24.370 --> 0:06:27.060 for us, it felt like a natural time where we 0:06:27.060 --> 0:06:29.700 kind of stopped being assistants on the same show together 0:06:29.930 --> 0:06:32.889 and we were just moving in different directions. I think 0:06:32.890 --> 0:06:35.839 I had gotten an opportunity on American Dreams to be 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.939 an assistant, and I had been given the opportunity to 0:06:37.940 --> 0:06:41.259 write a script there. And I think for me, I 0:06:41.260 --> 0:06:44.990 didn't know what my voice was alone. I really didn't 0:06:44.990 --> 0:06:47.900 know what my voice was at all. And so, it 0:06:47.900 --> 0:06:51.190 was an opportunity to start to find it, and it 0:06:51.190 --> 0:06:54.219 just proved to be very invaluable. And being on American 0:06:54.219 --> 0:06:56.540 Dreams especially was really life- changing for me. 0:06:56.890 --> 0:06:59.979 And on American Dreams, you went then from assistant to 0:06:59.979 --> 0:07:02.830 writer, but then you also were a story editor, and 0:07:02.830 --> 0:07:04.960 that's kind of a step up in the writer's room? 0:07:05.029 --> 0:07:07.669 Yeah, so you go the ladder. You start as an assistant, you 0:07:07.669 --> 0:07:10.610 get a staff writer job and then it's like story editor, executive 0:07:10.610 --> 0:07:16.650 story editor, co- producer, producer, supervising producer, sometimes consulting producer, co- 0:07:16.650 --> 0:07:19.330 EP and then executive producer. So, you kind of move your way 0:07:19.330 --> 0:07:21.600 up the ladder. And so, I got to be an 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.050 assistant on American Dreams for a year and then two 0:07:24.050 --> 0:07:28.070 years as a writer. And that was the best, craziest 0:07:28.070 --> 0:07:29.930 first experience I could have ever had. 0:07:30.590 --> 0:07:33.050 Having it be the first experience, did you see the 0:07:33.050 --> 0:07:35.520 steps like you just laid out and know that that's 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.080 what you wanted to take, or did they kind of 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.850 come at you and you would step up as you 0:07:38.850 --> 0:07:39.550 moved along? 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.430 I knew that's what I wanted to do. Like I 0:07:41.430 --> 0:07:43.059 said, I had been on Dawson's Creek. I was an 0:07:43.060 --> 0:07:45.160 assistant, we had written an episode but it didn't really 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.739 lead anywhere. I had been going on meetings forever, and we 0:07:47.739 --> 0:07:52.420 hadn't really gotten anything as a team and we were 0:07:52.420 --> 0:07:54.310 just both kind of trying to figure it out at 0:07:54.310 --> 0:07:56.200 the time and going off on different shows that I 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.200 think really suited both our personalities. I mean, when I 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.580 saw Brittany Snow watching American Bandstand, that's how I felt 0:08:03.580 --> 0:08:05.570 watching American Dreams, and I was like, " I'll do anything 0:08:05.570 --> 0:08:07.860 on this show. I'll be a PA, I'll work for free. 0:08:07.860 --> 0:08:10.809 I'll be an intern. I'll do anything." And of course, 0:08:10.810 --> 0:08:13.010 I knew I wanted to move up the ladder. But 0:08:13.070 --> 0:08:15.790 I don't think I had a huge sense of the 0:08:15.790 --> 0:08:18.790 ladder and of how long it would take, would I 0:08:18.790 --> 0:08:21.420 ever get there? I mean, I moved out here and I thought, " Some 0:08:21.420 --> 0:08:23.940 day, if I write an episode of television with my 0:08:23.940 --> 0:08:25.710 name on it," for all I knew, that could take a 0:08:25.710 --> 0:08:28.920 whole career. So I was like, " That might be it, you might 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.400 work 20 years to have one episode of television." I mean, I 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.729 had no idea. So, I didn't have a great barometer, but 0:08:34.730 --> 0:08:36.570 I just knew I loved where I was. 0:08:36.959 --> 0:08:40.240 And then climbing up the ladder again, you went from 0:08:40.750 --> 0:08:43.120 What About Brian, where you had a producing role. And 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.300 then Brothers & Sisters, you had a season of being a 0:08:46.300 --> 0:08:50.250 producer and then supervising producer. So you really went from 0:08:50.250 --> 0:08:53.610 show to show, taking on all of these experiences, and 0:08:53.610 --> 0:08:55.239 I'd love to hear more about what you learned from 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:56.879 them, what you took from each show. 0:08:57.059 --> 0:09:00.609 So, some of those titles, like you're all sometimes kind of doing 0:09:00.610 --> 0:09:03.670 the same thing even though your title increases and hopefully your 0:09:03.670 --> 0:09:06.760 pay. Everything you're doing is still kind of the same until you get 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.410 to supervising, co- EP level where you might be rewriting 0:09:10.410 --> 0:09:13.160 scripts or really helping out with something specific or being 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.110 in post, you're a writer in the room and you're 0:09:15.110 --> 0:09:16.900 all kind of doing the same thing. You might just 0:09:16.900 --> 0:09:19.209 have more experience. So, what happened was I had been 0:09:19.209 --> 0:09:22.939 on American Dreams, and then it got canceled and I 0:09:22.939 --> 0:09:25.719 did not get staffed. And of course, I was a 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.189 wreck. I was like, " What do I do for money?" It 0:09:28.189 --> 0:09:30.030 was like, I had been story editor and I didn't 0:09:30.030 --> 0:09:31.970 know if I could go back to being an assistant, 0:09:31.990 --> 0:09:33.809 because that's going to look weird, because I'm already a 0:09:33.809 --> 0:09:36.479 couple rungs up and now I'm jumping back. But I 0:09:36.490 --> 0:09:40.189 really didn't know what to do. And by some miracle, I ended 0:09:40.189 --> 0:09:43.420 up selling my first pilot that year. Again, by some 0:09:43.420 --> 0:09:46.809 other miracle, it ended up shooting in Vancouver. And so, 0:09:46.809 --> 0:09:50.850 I ended up shooting this pilot. It completely changed my 0:09:50.850 --> 0:09:54.059 career. Just to have had something shoot, and then Josh 0:09:54.059 --> 0:09:56.300 Reims, who I had worked with on American Dreams, who 0:09:56.300 --> 0:09:59.139 was such a guide and mentor to me... I mean, 0:09:59.140 --> 0:10:01.260 he was so encouraging but he would also pull me 0:10:01.260 --> 0:10:04.720 aside and told me what annoying things I was doing that I needed to really 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.069 correct if I wanted to keep moving up. Which is 0:10:07.069 --> 0:10:10.020 a very hard thing to do, but it's kindness to 0:10:10.020 --> 0:10:12.439 do that for someone. And he really did that for 0:10:12.449 --> 0:10:14.620 me, and then he proceeded to hire me kind of 0:10:14.620 --> 0:10:17.069 again and again on What About Brian and Brothers & Sisters, and 0:10:17.069 --> 0:10:21.089 just always... Dirty, Sexy, Money. He just always really supported 0:10:21.179 --> 0:10:24.230 me and my career. And so hooking up with a person like 0:10:24.230 --> 0:10:27.099 that and being able to grow with them and really 0:10:27.100 --> 0:10:29.890 emulate the way that they ran a show and ran 0:10:29.890 --> 0:10:32.110 a room, and I really did that with Josh. 0:10:32.410 --> 0:10:35.199 And then all of that led to your first show 0:10:35.199 --> 0:10:38.790 running experience, which was Life Unexpected, which is such a 0:10:38.790 --> 0:10:39.729 cute show. 0:10:40.110 --> 0:10:42.809 Oh, thank you. I loved that show. I loved that 0:10:42.809 --> 0:10:46.100 group. The writers and cast, we're all still such good 0:10:46.100 --> 0:10:50.120 friends, and we all felt really young, like we were 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.939 all just doing this thing for the first time. Up 0:10:52.939 --> 0:10:56.349 in Vancouver, and it was an amazing experience. I remember 0:10:56.350 --> 0:10:58.579 being in the writer's room and going... looking around and 0:10:58.579 --> 0:11:01.040 thinking like, " Who's going to tell me hat to do?" And 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.339 I called Josh Reims, and he was like, " Nobody, it's 0:11:04.339 --> 0:11:06.319 on you. And if anyone helps you, if anyone has 0:11:06.319 --> 0:11:08.520 one good idea, they're doing you a favor, but it's 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.580 on you." And I was like, " No, I was terrified." I had 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.980 a great producing partner, Mary Beth Basile, and we all 0:11:13.980 --> 0:11:16.790 had the best time doing the show. And it was like 0:11:16.790 --> 0:11:20.929 American Dreams, kind of the best first experience doing that 0:11:20.929 --> 0:11:22.990 that I could have hoped for. And I think unlike 0:11:22.990 --> 0:11:25.439 Split Decision, my first pilot where I was so like, " 0:11:25.709 --> 0:11:27.579 I'm so young and I'm so grateful to be there," and I'm like, " 0:11:27.579 --> 0:11:32.360 Meep," Life Unexpected, I was really able to have more 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.809 of a voice and I don't mean to say stand 0:11:34.809 --> 0:11:36.790 up for myself like I had to stand up to 0:11:36.790 --> 0:11:39.349 anybody, but more like be able to voice what I 0:11:39.350 --> 0:11:44.030 thought and not feel intimidated and know that my voice 0:11:44.030 --> 0:11:47.140 was going to be kind of recognized and included and 0:11:47.140 --> 0:11:50.479 that it mattered, and that just felt so empowering. It 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.400 was so nice to have a voice and it kind 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.769 of made me feel like, " What do people do who 0:11:55.230 --> 0:11:57.559 don't have a TV show to say all this stuff with 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.569 every week?" I felt like I just got to pour 0:11:59.569 --> 0:12:03.090 it all out into the show. What I thought, and yeah. It 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:05.739 was one of the best experiences of my career, hands- down. 0:12:05.939 --> 0:12:08.140 And it was on the CW, is that correct? 0:12:09.020 --> 0:12:09.349 It was. It was on the CW. 0:12:10.219 --> 0:12:13.010 So, you had just come off of Melrose Place, also 0:12:13.010 --> 0:12:15.509 on the CW. Did that lead to the show, or how 0:12:15.510 --> 0:12:16.339 did that work out? 0:12:16.410 --> 0:12:19.270 So, Life Unexpected got picked up but it was starting 0:12:19.270 --> 0:12:21.849 kind of late, and I was in an overall deal. 0:12:21.850 --> 0:12:23.959 So, I went to Melrose. I had gotten to be 0:12:23.959 --> 0:12:25.400 a little bit of a fly on the wall of 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.839 the pilot of that, and then I came to just 0:12:27.839 --> 0:12:30.950 write the second episode and moved on to Life Unexpected. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.929 But somehow, I don't know. I got credited on all 0:12:32.949 --> 0:12:34.670 13 or however many there were. I was like, " Oh, 0:12:34.670 --> 0:12:34.720 this is great." 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.381 You did so much on this show. 0:12:37.381 --> 0:12:41.790 I look very busy. But it was really fun, it 0:12:41.790 --> 0:12:43.989 was a great group. And it was great to be under 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.319 those guys before I was off to run my own 0:12:47.319 --> 0:12:48.959 thing, just Todd and Darren were great. 0:12:49.339 --> 0:12:52.439 The idea sprung basically because you are adopted yourself, is 0:12:52.439 --> 0:12:53.110 that correct? 0:12:53.469 --> 0:12:53.749 Yeah. 0:12:54.020 --> 0:12:55.910 How much of yourself did you put in this show? 0:12:56.079 --> 0:12:58.410 Well, initially, I didn't really think it came from me 0:12:58.410 --> 0:13:01.050 at all. I was thinking more about like Knocked Up 0:13:01.050 --> 0:13:03.329 and Gilmore Girls and I don't know, I just kind 0:13:03.329 --> 0:13:06.880 of came up with the idea and it wasn't until 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.219 it was already written and shot and we were staffing 0:13:10.219 --> 0:13:12.569 the writer's room that Mary Beth, my producing partner, was 0:13:12.579 --> 0:13:15.439 like, "This is a lot about you." And I was like, " Is 0:13:15.439 --> 0:13:18.809 it?" And I didn't really set out to do it. It 0:13:18.809 --> 0:13:21.280 just turned out to be that way, and then of course, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.209 I did get to put a lot of myself into 0:13:23.209 --> 0:13:26.410 it. And all the writers, every time someone new wrote, they 0:13:26.410 --> 0:13:28.670 got to put themselves into it. So by the end, 0:13:28.670 --> 0:13:30.170 it really wasn't just me, it was everybody. 0:13:30.170 --> 0:13:33.530 Yeah. So, it's write what you know, even when that's 0:13:33.530 --> 0:13:34.650 unintentional, is what you- 0:13:34.650 --> 0:13:38.029 Yeah, I guess so. Exactly. It's like, turns out I 0:13:38.030 --> 0:13:38.770 don't know anything else. 0:13:40.339 --> 0:13:42.790 But speaking of working within a network, so then you 0:13:42.790 --> 0:13:45.020 did a whole string of ABC Shows. You were on Once 0:13:45.020 --> 0:13:47.480 Upon A Time and Revenge, and Nashville and the Astronaut 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.209 Wives Club. But it feels like you were kind of 0:13:50.209 --> 0:13:52.349 sent there to launch the show, because you were in the 0:13:52.349 --> 0:13:54.219 first season of all of them. Is that kind of 0:13:54.219 --> 0:13:54.700 what happened? 0:13:55.010 --> 0:13:57.550 Yeah, so after Life Unexpected, I signed an overall deal 0:13:57.550 --> 0:14:00.309 at ABC, and when you're on an overall deal, you kind 0:14:00.309 --> 0:14:03.120 of get assigned to shows basically. And usually what they'll 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.179 do is they'll assign you to their first season shows 0:14:06.179 --> 0:14:08.969 because we all know the first season's usually the hardest 0:14:09.010 --> 0:14:11.729 to get off the ground. So, yeah. I went from 0:14:11.730 --> 0:14:14.410 first season show to first season show and I don't 0:14:14.410 --> 0:14:15.829 know. I mean, I hope I was helpful. I have 0:14:15.829 --> 0:14:19.159 no idea. But I was there, and I got to do 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.240 a lot and be around a lot of different show 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.870 runners, again learn what I like, what I didn't like, what I 0:14:25.870 --> 0:14:28.760 thought was effective, what I thought wasn't. I got to have 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.430 relationships with a lot of new people and just meet 0:14:31.430 --> 0:14:33.609 writers that I hadn't known before that I really loved 0:14:33.620 --> 0:14:36.270 working with, and then sometimes reunite with people who I 0:14:36.270 --> 0:14:36.779 had known. 0:14:37.150 --> 0:14:40.379 What do you think was the biggest thing that you took away from doing 0:14:40.380 --> 0:14:41.780 that with all of the show runners? 0:14:42.130 --> 0:14:45.540 Well, you know what? I think I would say that 0:14:45.540 --> 0:14:49.520 I realize I need to be with my people. Some 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:54.830 shows, well, I'll just say it. Once Upon A Time 0:14:54.830 --> 0:14:57.420 was a show that I loved, I love the fairy tale 0:14:57.420 --> 0:15:00.460 world. I love the themes, but there were elements of it 0:15:00.460 --> 0:15:03.550 that just weren't in my wheelhouse. They would refer to 0:15:03.729 --> 0:15:06.629 a portal and I would talk about a hole. Or 0:15:06.630 --> 0:15:08.889 I'd be like, " She falls down the hole," they'd be 0:15:08.890 --> 0:15:11.979 like, "It's a portal!" And I'm like, " Oh, a portal." I'm just 0:15:11.979 --> 0:15:15.930 not a portal person and so it was pretty obvious quickly 0:15:15.930 --> 0:15:18.530 I wasn't a portal person to them and to me. So 0:15:18.770 --> 0:15:21.470 that, though I loved them, that wasn't a natural fit 0:15:21.540 --> 0:15:25.770 for me and I think that I realized, " Oh, there 0:15:25.770 --> 0:15:27.620 are just people who like, we're going to speak the 0:15:27.620 --> 0:15:29.729 same language and I'm going to know it's right because it's 0:15:29.729 --> 0:15:31.470 going to feel right." I'm not going to feel like 0:15:31.470 --> 0:15:34.440 I'm swimming upstream. So, I think I became a little 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.760 more choiceful when I went on shows to really not 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.310 just try to get the job, but to really investigate 0:15:41.470 --> 0:15:44.370 what they were looking for so I could discern. I 0:15:44.370 --> 0:15:46.639 might love the show and I might love the people 0:15:46.950 --> 0:15:50.070 in that case, but I might not be the best 0:15:50.229 --> 0:15:53.060 fit. I need to discern that for myself a little 0:15:53.060 --> 0:15:55.619 bit. So, I don't know. That was something kind of 0:15:55.970 --> 0:15:58.270 good to learn I think out of the experience of 0:15:58.270 --> 0:16:01.499 hopping around. And that I just really needed to be 0:16:01.570 --> 0:16:04.900 in an effective room where people listened to each other. 0:16:05.140 --> 0:16:07.500 That was another thing. I would go on some shows 0:16:07.500 --> 0:16:09.210 where it just felt like everyone was talking, but no 0:16:09.210 --> 0:16:09.900 one was listening. 0:16:10.150 --> 0:16:15.070 Hmm. So then Casual, I read something where Zander Lehmann 0:16:15.100 --> 0:16:19.350 basically said him and Jason Wrightman and Helen Estabrook all 0:16:19.350 --> 0:16:21.560 kind of followed your lead because you had the most 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.660 experience in television. Was that kind of a room where 0:16:24.660 --> 0:16:27.670 you guys all carried each other's weight and worked together 0:16:27.670 --> 0:16:29.670 as a team of show runners, kind of? 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.670 Absolutely. I mean, they hadn't done TV before, and so 0:16:33.670 --> 0:16:36.810 I kind of got brought in as the experienced show 0:16:36.810 --> 0:16:40.379 runner. I hadn't done a comedy before, so that part 0:16:40.380 --> 0:16:43.720 was new to me. But yeah, Helen, Zander and I 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.859 really ran that show kind of in a three- pronged 0:16:46.859 --> 0:16:50.450 approach. I ran the room. Zander controlled all the scripts, 0:16:50.450 --> 0:16:54.590 and Helen really spearheaded set and producing. And so that 0:16:54.590 --> 0:16:57.300 was a great partnership at the time, and I think 0:16:57.300 --> 0:17:01.090 that I loved the... I mean, I would say mentorship with 0:17:01.090 --> 0:17:03.499 Zander, but in a lot of ways, Zander mentored me 0:17:03.500 --> 0:17:06.480 as much as I did him. It was really a two- 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.760 way street because he thought so much outside of the 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.030 box because he hadn't grown up kind of in that 0:17:11.030 --> 0:17:14.440 box because he was so young. And he'd barely grown 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.710 up. But yeah, so I had a lot to learn 0:17:16.710 --> 0:17:21.109 from Zander too. I really appreciated his approach to storytelling 0:17:21.109 --> 0:17:23.639 and I really appreciated his voice, and I think he 0:17:23.639 --> 0:17:26.570 stretched me to go outside the box a little more, 0:17:26.570 --> 0:17:28.409 because I had grown up kind of in that network 0:17:28.409 --> 0:17:31.990 box and structure. But yeah, I loved running that room. 0:17:31.990 --> 0:17:34.840 I absolutely loved the writers on that show. So many 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.010 of them I've taken to do so many other projects 0:17:38.010 --> 0:17:41.070 and that was a great experience. It was a really 0:17:41.139 --> 0:17:43.280 particularly wonderful room experience. 0:17:43.899 --> 0:17:46.510 And that was your first experience with streaming, right? 0:17:46.580 --> 0:17:46.840 Yeah. 0:17:47.369 --> 0:17:50.139 So, what did you find the main difference was there 0:17:50.139 --> 0:17:51.880 in streaming versus network? 0:17:52.050 --> 0:17:54.889 The biggest difference I think was getting to write almost 0:17:54.889 --> 0:17:57.290 all the scripts ahead of time, was having like a three- 0:17:57.290 --> 0:18:00.159 month lead instead of a six- week lead. So you 0:18:00.159 --> 0:18:03.460 could find the show and if you had an episode 0:18:03.460 --> 0:18:06.040 where you were struggling, you weren't having the weight of 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.469 production bearing down on you. You had time to find 0:18:09.470 --> 0:18:12.359 the show and find the voice and find the rhythm. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.020 Sometimes it can take four episodes in, five, six. And 0:18:16.020 --> 0:18:19.540 so once we found it with Casual, it was just 0:18:19.540 --> 0:18:22.639 such an easy show to do I thought, because we 0:18:22.639 --> 0:18:25.070 knew what felt right for that show. We could just 0:18:25.070 --> 0:18:25.981 feel it when we were in the room. 0:18:25.981 --> 0:18:39.450 A Moment of Your Time, a new podcast from CurtCo 0:18:39.450 --> 0:18:39.830 Media. 0:18:39.830 --> 0:18:42.899