1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:08,070 S1: From crypto media. Coming up on the show, you could 2 00:00:08,070 --> 00:00:11,550 S1: rock up in Bavaria, say my ancestors Bavaria, get a 3 00:00:11,550 --> 00:00:15,140 S1: brilliant guide and they'll take you to the churches, to 4 00:00:15,150 --> 00:00:19,169 S1: other places where the family probably hung out. But what 5 00:00:19,170 --> 00:00:23,700 S1: we do is so specific and so personalized to the 6 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:27,030 S1: client that, you know, you could never replicate that with anyone. 7 00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:31,710 S2: That's Sue Hills. I'm Bruce Wallan, and this is travel 8 00:00:31,710 --> 00:00:46,690 S2: that matters. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of 9 00:00:46,690 --> 00:00:50,080 S2: Travel that matters. This is the podcast where we explore 10 00:00:50,110 --> 00:00:54,100 S2: the world's most exceptional and meaningful travel experiences. And I 11 00:00:54,100 --> 00:00:56,680 S2: got to say I can't really think of a more 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,200 S2: meaningful travel experience than the one we're going to talk 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,610 S2: about today. My guest is Sue Hills, the founder of 14 00:01:03,610 --> 00:01:07,870 S2: a company called Ancestral Footsteps. Now, Sue's a TV person. 15 00:01:07,870 --> 00:01:11,080 S2: She was a director and producer on the original British 16 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,630 S2: TV show. Who do you think you are? That's the 17 00:01:13,630 --> 00:01:16,450 S2: show where they take celebrities and do detailed research into 18 00:01:16,450 --> 00:01:19,209 S2: their family backgrounds and take them on these surprise filled 19 00:01:19,209 --> 00:01:22,180 S2: journeys where they gradually reveal all the secrets and stories 20 00:01:22,180 --> 00:01:24,670 S2: about their ancestors. You can probably see where this one's 21 00:01:24,670 --> 00:01:28,810 S2: going here at the encouragement of some of her celebrity guests. Sue, 22 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,710 S2: along with her historian husband Andy Taylor, started offering this 23 00:01:32,709 --> 00:01:36,670 S2: service to individuals. What they do today is, quite frankly, 24 00:01:36,670 --> 00:01:39,369 S2: unlike anything else out there or that you've heard of. 25 00:01:39,370 --> 00:01:42,330 S2: It's not one of these ancestral pub crawl through Ireland. 26 00:01:42,340 --> 00:01:46,120 S2: These are highly researched personal journeys that take you anywhere 27 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,350 S2: in the world and reveal fascinating family stories along the way. Now, 28 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,480 S2: before any of us go on a major trip like this, 29 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,610 S2: it's always nice to speak with someone who has done 30 00:01:54,610 --> 00:01:58,180 S2: that trip or traveled with this company, and today we 31 00:01:58,210 --> 00:02:01,390 S2: are fortunate enough to have one such person. So before 32 00:02:01,390 --> 00:02:04,690 S2: we get to introduce you to this very special person 33 00:02:04,690 --> 00:02:08,470 S2: who will be co-hosting today's show with me, she's a journalist, 34 00:02:08,650 --> 00:02:11,739 S2: a New York Times bestselling author. And she also happens 35 00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:15,340 S2: to be my wife, Lisa Sweeting him. Lisa, thank you 36 00:02:15,340 --> 00:02:16,900 S2: for joining us today on travel. That matters. 37 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,930 S3: Thank you, Bruce Wallin. I'm happy to be here. 38 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,150 S2: Very good. Very good. OK, let me set this up 39 00:02:22,150 --> 00:02:24,460 S2: a bit why my wife is on this show. A 40 00:02:24,460 --> 00:02:26,380 S2: few years back, when I was the editorial director at 41 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:30,400 S2: Robb Report, I was researching a story about ancestral footsteps 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,070 S2: when I realized there was really only one writer who 43 00:02:33,070 --> 00:02:35,560 S2: could do this story justice. Not only was she a 44 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,200 S2: great writer, of course, and my wife, but she had 45 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,420 S2: a very strange, sad and mysterious family story that just 46 00:02:43,419 --> 00:02:47,050 S2: seemed like the perfect challenge for Sue and Andy. So Lisa, 47 00:02:47,050 --> 00:02:48,790 S2: can you just give us a little bit of background 48 00:02:48,790 --> 00:02:51,850 S2: on that family story and how you found yourself traveling 49 00:02:51,850 --> 00:02:53,290 S2: down the Audubon with Andy? 50 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:56,320 S3: Yeah. So just to set the scene for you, it 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,000 S3: was the night of April 4th, 1951, and my maternal grandfather, 52 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,650 S3: Will Valenzuela, was getting drunk because his wife, Margo, my grandmother, 53 00:03:05,650 --> 00:03:08,290 S3: had just told him that she was going to leave him. 54 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,800 S3: Now they had met in World War Two. She was 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,770 S3: a very poor German girl and he was a soldier, 56 00:03:14,770 --> 00:03:19,180 S3: a Mexican soldier fighting for America. And he brought her 57 00:03:19,180 --> 00:03:22,030 S3: over here. He had two kids, my mom and aunt, 58 00:03:22,030 --> 00:03:25,870 S3: and that night he just was so distraught that he 59 00:03:25,870 --> 00:03:30,309 S3: shot her with his military weapon and then he shot himself. Now, 60 00:03:30,730 --> 00:03:34,960 S3: fast forward to today, I didn't know anything about them, 61 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,970 S3: and no one in our family related to and I 62 00:03:36,970 --> 00:03:39,880 S3: had so many questions about, did he love her? What 63 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,670 S3: was the story? Why did he do it? And I 64 00:03:42,670 --> 00:03:46,570 S3: knew nothing and my parents knew nothing, and I really 65 00:03:46,570 --> 00:03:49,630 S3: wanted to know more about this family history. So that's 66 00:03:49,630 --> 00:03:52,810 S3: how I found myself traveling with Andy down the Audubon. 67 00:03:53,590 --> 00:03:58,920 S2: OK, so let's go from there to sue. Sue, thank 68 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,900 S2: you so much for joining us on travel that matters. 69 00:04:01,260 --> 00:04:02,369 S1: It's a pleasure pleasure. 70 00:04:02,790 --> 00:04:04,770 S2: Well, we are very excited to hear some of your stories. 71 00:04:04,770 --> 00:04:06,780 S2: We tease it a little bit here with Lisa's story, 72 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:09,720 S2: but I want to start. How did you come up 73 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,600 S2: with this idea? I hear Jerry Springer has something to 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:12,960 S2: do with it. 75 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:15,750 S1: He did, indeed. I mean, I was working for a 76 00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:17,520 S1: program called Who Do You Think You Are? Which I 77 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,820 S1: know they have all over the world, including America. And 78 00:04:20,820 --> 00:04:24,240 S1: I was really fortunate to be directing Jerry Springer story. 79 00:04:24,750 --> 00:04:28,140 S1: For some reason, I thought that Jerry Springer was American, 80 00:04:28,140 --> 00:04:31,350 S1: possibly with Irish roots, because the surname Springer said that 81 00:04:31,350 --> 00:04:35,219 S1: to me. But we uncovered an incredible Jewish story which 82 00:04:35,220 --> 00:04:39,089 S1: involved a tragic, very tragic Holocaust tale. It's both his 83 00:04:39,089 --> 00:04:41,339 S1: grandmothers who perished in the Holocaust, but he was an 84 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:44,940 S1: absolute pleasure to travel with because he saw positives and 85 00:04:44,940 --> 00:04:47,909 S1: everything negative that was being thrown at him. And at 86 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:49,530 S1: the end of the trip, you just said, this has 87 00:04:49,529 --> 00:04:53,850 S1: been such an emotional, brilliant once in a lifetime journey. 88 00:04:53,860 --> 00:04:56,640 S1: Why don't you do this for everybody, not just for celebrities? 89 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,980 S1: And I said, Well, Jerry, I have been thinking about 90 00:04:58,980 --> 00:05:02,010 S1: that because it is incredible and I feel honoured to 91 00:05:02,010 --> 00:05:04,380 S1: be on the trip. And it's not even my family, 92 00:05:04,380 --> 00:05:07,590 S1: but I'm emotionally involved. So how must it be for you? 93 00:05:07,620 --> 00:05:10,710 S1: You know whose actual family, who's who's the subject of this? 94 00:05:11,190 --> 00:05:13,469 S1: And it got me thinking and sort of probably about 95 00:05:13,470 --> 00:05:15,750 S1: a year later, I launched ancestral footsteps. 96 00:05:16,260 --> 00:05:18,599 S2: Was there anyone else out there doing something like this 97 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:19,080 S2: at the time? 98 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,220 S1: No, there was nothing that was as global as us. 99 00:05:22,220 --> 00:05:26,669 S1: So for example, you could have ancestry from Scotland, Sweden, 100 00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:31,089 S1: Germany and France, but probably to organize that tour who 101 00:05:31,110 --> 00:05:34,469 S1: coming from America, you would have to do separate tours 102 00:05:34,470 --> 00:05:37,920 S1: with different companies within those countries. Whereas the beauty of 103 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,929 S1: what we can do here, ancestral footsteps is we can 104 00:05:39,930 --> 00:05:43,740 S1: organize the whole thing because we have global contacts. So 105 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:46,080 S1: for example, if I've got Irish roots, my dad, I'm 106 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,990 S1: from Derry. Of course I can go. I can contact 107 00:05:48,990 --> 00:05:52,440 S1: the local Derry guide, who does tours to the local pubs, 108 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,230 S1: the local castle, et cetera, et cetera. But they may 109 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:58,260 S1: not do tours that involve the documents, which is specifically 110 00:05:58,260 --> 00:06:00,690 S1: what give the fascinating information about the family. 111 00:06:00,990 --> 00:06:03,810 S3: I think you're actually underselling it a bit because what 112 00:06:03,810 --> 00:06:06,960 S3: you do sue in which I so appreciated as an 113 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,859 S3: investigative reporter, is you find the evidence and you find 114 00:06:10,860 --> 00:06:14,190 S3: the documents and you dig so deep and you live 115 00:06:14,190 --> 00:06:17,520 S3: with our ancestors. I know that in my case, you 116 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,960 S3: actually lived with William and Margot and Helga and Helene 117 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,990 S3: and all of the ancestors. And as they were in 118 00:06:24,990 --> 00:06:27,540 S3: the war time in Germany and as the buildings were 119 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:31,110 S3: crumbling around them, I felt like when you and I met, 120 00:06:31,110 --> 00:06:33,990 S3: you already knew more about me than I knew about me, 121 00:06:33,990 --> 00:06:36,810 S3: and that was something you can't find that anywhere. 122 00:06:38,460 --> 00:06:41,580 S2: Living with your ancestors licence, you were first in touch 123 00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:45,089 S2: just a few months earlier. And already, as Lisa puts it, 124 00:06:45,450 --> 00:06:49,440 S2: she knew more about Lisa than Lisa did. Clearly, this 125 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,200 S2: was not the result of a few Google searches and 126 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,279 S2: phone calls. This is serious investigative reporting. So we asked 127 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,450 S2: you how she went about uncovering Lisa's family's story, 128 00:07:01,770 --> 00:07:05,659 S1: for example, with Lisa's story. It was an incredible opening gambit, 129 00:07:05,670 --> 00:07:09,160 S1: you know? I mean, she told me that her grandparents, 130 00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:12,270 S1: it was a murder suicide that was phenomenal. So already 131 00:07:12,270 --> 00:07:14,310 S1: my interest was piqued. I thought, I've got to help 132 00:07:14,310 --> 00:07:16,770 S1: this person out. I knew the family were from the 133 00:07:16,770 --> 00:07:19,890 S1: Cologne area of Germany, and of course, the first thing 134 00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:21,670 S1: you're going to do is go to the Cologne archives. 135 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:24,270 S1: The first point of call. Let me guess what? The 136 00:07:24,270 --> 00:07:27,840 S1: Cologne archives were closed because they've been damaged. They were 137 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,830 S1: being rebuilt. So that was like, Oh no, we managed 138 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:33,780 S1: to sort of sweet talk someone in there and they 139 00:07:33,930 --> 00:07:36,420 S1: said we could. If you're very specific about the years, 140 00:07:36,420 --> 00:07:38,610 S1: we could look at some old boxes, but it'll take 141 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:41,160 S1: us weeks to do that. We just thought, you know, 142 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,070 S1: we just need to see there must be some family there. 143 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:46,560 S1: I think from Lisa, we knew that her grandmother had 144 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,040 S1: her brothers and sisters, so we must have some family 145 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,250 S1: members still in Germany. So we thought, Well, what is 146 00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:56,280 S1: the way to get hold of Germans? And someone said 147 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,890 S1: it's the local free newspaper, which again was a big 148 00:07:58,890 --> 00:08:00,720 S1: thing back then and probably a bigger thing than it 149 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,600 S1: is in the U.K., where people, you know, literally pick 150 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,420 S1: up the local paper falls on the doormat in the morning. 151 00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:09,990 S1: And the local paper was quite interested in this because 152 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:12,420 S1: we had a story and Lisa had a photo of 153 00:08:12,420 --> 00:08:15,150 S1: the two lovers. And so therefore already there was quite 154 00:08:15,150 --> 00:08:17,970 S1: a nice sort of slant for them. So they've kindly 155 00:08:17,970 --> 00:08:21,900 S1: published a story for us and then probably within a week. 156 00:08:22,140 --> 00:08:25,619 S1: Elsa contacted the paper and the paper contacted us, and 157 00:08:25,620 --> 00:08:26,640 S1: the rest is history. 158 00:08:27,030 --> 00:08:30,210 S3: So the most amazing thing happened on that last day 159 00:08:30,210 --> 00:08:32,970 S3: when you took me into this tiny little town and 160 00:08:32,970 --> 00:08:35,430 S3: you said, this is Elsa, and she has some things 161 00:08:35,429 --> 00:08:37,770 S3: to show you and Elsa turned out to be my 162 00:08:37,770 --> 00:08:41,100 S3: second cousin once removed. And she had all these documents 163 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:45,690 S3: in her hands, and she had photographs of my grandmother 164 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:49,470 S3: holding my mother, who was just a baby in California, 165 00:08:49,470 --> 00:08:52,680 S3: photos that we'd never seen before. And that was and 166 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,020 S3: she had so many wonderful details that we didn't know. 167 00:08:55,020 --> 00:08:59,520 S3: Like that Margo's sister. They called the Foxy One, had 168 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,630 S3: to resort to prostitution just to get maybe a bar 169 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:07,140 S3: of soap or some chocolates, and that she had a 170 00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:11,730 S3: brother who was like a gay tailor for the opera. 171 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,770 S3: You know, and also the mom who lived in this 172 00:09:13,770 --> 00:09:17,400 S3: tiny rented room with one wall missing. That was just 173 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,910 S3: nice for me to know that these real people who 174 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:25,050 S3: I had never known anything about before. It cements your story. 175 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,150 S3: It gives you a sense of who you are. 176 00:09:27,510 --> 00:09:30,600 S1: Yeah, I think that's really important as well to understand 177 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 S1: the struggles these people had. And you do realize that 178 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,300 S1: people's lives were really messy in the old days. I mean, 179 00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:38,040 S1: you know, they can be messy now. Of course they can. 180 00:09:38,050 --> 00:09:41,339 S1: But yeah, you know, the really was a struggle of hand-to-mouth. 181 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:44,030 S2: What are those moments that people react to the most? 182 00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:46,500 S2: I feel like when Lisa's story, you kind of it's 183 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:50,400 S2: kind of the holy grail was discovering someone. But what 184 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,460 S2: is kind of typically the moments that people are just 185 00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:54,609 S2: blown away by? 186 00:09:55,230 --> 00:09:58,590 S1: I think that people are blown away more than anything 187 00:09:58,590 --> 00:10:02,280 S1: by the kindness of strangers, the absolute kindness of strangers. 188 00:10:02,490 --> 00:10:05,130 S1: In a way, Lisa's relative, she was she was a stranger, 189 00:10:05,130 --> 00:10:07,470 S1: you know, but she was kind. She didn't have to 190 00:10:07,470 --> 00:10:09,350 S1: give up. I think she took a day off work, 191 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,460 S1: didn't have to do that. You know, she didn't have 192 00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:13,260 S1: to get the photos together, and she didn't have to 193 00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:16,020 S1: come and meet Lisa. But she did, and it was 194 00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:18,780 S1: just so kind. And you find that, you know, with 195 00:10:18,780 --> 00:10:20,910 S1: a lot of trips, you go to really far flung 196 00:10:20,910 --> 00:10:24,600 S1: village baby in Eastern Europe, and the local schoolchildren have 197 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,200 S1: never seen the Americans before or British people before. Here 198 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:29,970 S1: they are, rocking up in the village. You know, they 199 00:10:29,970 --> 00:10:31,680 S1: make them a cake, or they give them a school 200 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,010 S1: assembly to say, welcome to our village. Or I had 201 00:10:35,010 --> 00:10:38,580 S1: a trip with the guy actually who lives in Los Angeles. 202 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,980 S1: He went over to Kaliningrad in Russia and wanted to 203 00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:46,800 S1: see where his family home was that his grandparents have 204 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,530 S1: been chased from during the war. And we managed to 205 00:10:49,530 --> 00:10:51,480 S1: go there in advance, knock on the door of the 206 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,230 S1: family home and a beautiful couple answer to beautiful Russian 207 00:10:55,230 --> 00:10:58,710 S1: couple and said When they come, we must make them welcome. 208 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,260 S1: And they came over on the tour. I said, Were 209 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:03,730 S1: you the client you ring on the door? But he said, Well, why? 210 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:05,640 S1: Because no one will be in a safe place. We 211 00:11:05,850 --> 00:11:08,160 S1: the doorbell, because I know someone's going to be because 212 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,790 S1: I've organised things on the doorbell on a coach trip 213 00:11:11,790 --> 00:11:14,550 S1: of us, of 15 of us walk in and this 214 00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:17,880 S1: couple have made them the most amazing spread. Welcome to 215 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,489 S1: our house. This is probably where your grandparents slept. This 216 00:11:20,490 --> 00:11:23,520 S1: is where they ate the garden. And he just turned 217 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,709 S1: to me and said his most beautiful birthday present I've 218 00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:28,710 S1: ever had. And his wife was in tears saying, Thank you. 219 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,500 S1: This is amazing. And it was, you know, and it 220 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:33,569 S1: was kindness of strangers. It didn't have to do that. 221 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,000 S2: Let's talk about that for a second. That experience you 222 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,770 S2: just brought up in Russia with the family and they 223 00:11:37,770 --> 00:11:39,839 S2: opened the door and there's 15 people and you all 224 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,580 S2: go in there and eat and like, this is an 225 00:11:41,580 --> 00:11:44,579 S2: experience that has never happened to before. It's not like 226 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:46,860 S2: you're on some tour from a hotel and you just 227 00:11:46,980 --> 00:11:48,630 S2: you bring your group there and they make you dinner 228 00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:50,490 S2: just like they made it. For one hundred other groups 229 00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:53,160 S2: this year, like this has never happened before, and it's 230 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,179 S2: never going to happen again. 231 00:11:54,390 --> 00:11:55,470 S1: Never going to happen again. 232 00:11:55,740 --> 00:11:58,679 S2: That, to me, is something so special about these trips 233 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,420 S2: and talk to me a little bit about that kind 234 00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:02,880 S2: of that. Whether you call it luxury travel or whatever 235 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,189 S2: it is, it's like that idea of doing something that 236 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:07,230 S2: no one has done before and no one will ever 237 00:12:07,230 --> 00:12:07,679 S2: do again. 238 00:12:08,340 --> 00:12:10,199 S1: I mean, this is the thing that sort of sets 239 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,130 S1: us apart from probably other genealogical tools or ancestry tools 240 00:12:14,460 --> 00:12:16,950 S1: in that, you know, you could rock up in Bavaria, 241 00:12:16,950 --> 00:12:20,730 S1: say my ancestors Bavaria, get a brilliant guide and they'll 242 00:12:20,730 --> 00:12:24,060 S1: take you to the churches and to other places where 243 00:12:24,059 --> 00:12:27,000 S1: the family probably hung out. But you know, what we 244 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,610 S1: do is so specific and so personalized to the client that, 245 00:12:32,610 --> 00:12:34,800 S1: you know, you could never replicate that with anyone. Even 246 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,719 S1: if I had a family next week, the said, I'm 247 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,720 S1: from this particular street and in Kaliningrad, in Russia, I'd 248 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,160 S1: know that it wouldn't be the same house and the 249 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,199 S1: same people and it so it wouldn't be the same story. 250 00:12:43,650 --> 00:12:45,959 S1: So I can never, ever replicate at all. 251 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,210 S2: Let's get back to those moments, those moments, you know? 252 00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:50,280 S2: Are there others that you can think of, whether it's 253 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,670 S2: discovering a new relative or a gravestone or what? What 254 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:53,910 S2: are some 255 00:12:53,970 --> 00:12:57,150 S1: gravestones are quite personal because again, I'm going to come 256 00:12:57,150 --> 00:12:59,160 S1: back to. I do have a lot of Jewish clients 257 00:12:59,309 --> 00:13:01,650 S1: that have been told that everything was destroyed in the war. 258 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,170 S1: A lot of things were destroyed in the war. They 259 00:13:04,170 --> 00:13:06,780 S1: were also told all the records were destroyed. But I 260 00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:09,720 S1: think that that's another misnomer in the ancestry world. If 261 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,020 S1: the record isn't on Ancestry.com, then it doesn't exist. Of 262 00:13:13,020 --> 00:13:15,900 S1: course it exists. It just as a sort of archive 263 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:19,380 S1: miles from nowhere in a village or something. And I 264 00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:21,270 S1: think people are told that, you know, a lot of 265 00:13:21,270 --> 00:13:23,910 S1: the towns were desecrated. So if you do come to 266 00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:27,420 S1: a graveyard and the grave of your great great grandfather 267 00:13:27,420 --> 00:13:29,550 S1: is there, you can place the stone on it. It's 268 00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:30,870 S1: incredibly emotional. 269 00:13:31,530 --> 00:13:33,690 S2: So how do you discover all this? OK, so we 270 00:13:33,690 --> 00:13:35,520 S2: talked a little bit about what you did from Lisa, 271 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,770 S2: where you know you start with the archives clearly. And, 272 00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:40,260 S2: you know, with lead in Lisa's case, you know, one 273 00:13:40,260 --> 00:13:42,120 S2: of the branches that you went off to was taking 274 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,790 S2: out a story in a local newspaper like, what are 275 00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:47,160 S2: some of these other branches? It sounds like archives first, 276 00:13:47,370 --> 00:13:47,929 S2: then what? 277 00:13:48,270 --> 00:13:51,790 S1: Archives first and then local people. You know, you find 278 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,089 S1: out where people are from and then you go locally. 279 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:56,820 S1: There's nothing better in this world and. Someone with local 280 00:13:56,820 --> 00:14:00,000 S1: knowledge might have a trip actually once where we went 281 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,300 S1: to a village in Norfolk, it was a UK trip 282 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,760 S1: and we went to the pub for lunch and I 283 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,770 S1: didn't know because I'd never been to this pub before. 284 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,220 S1: And the client very sneakily told the person at the pub, 285 00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:13,589 S1: This is my surname, and I hadn't really sort of 286 00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:15,510 S1: factor that into the tour at all. And of course, 287 00:14:15,510 --> 00:14:17,550 S1: the person with the surname said, Oh, there's a road 288 00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:20,340 S1: named after you a couple of streets away. And of course, 289 00:14:20,340 --> 00:14:22,110 S1: that was where we were going off to lunch was 290 00:14:22,110 --> 00:14:24,720 S1: going to reveal it to them. So they already knew that. 291 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,480 S1: So again, there's nothing like their local knowledge often if 292 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,010 S1: you go to the pub. So that's why it's really 293 00:14:29,010 --> 00:14:31,380 S1: important to do what we call a recce like a 294 00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:34,770 S1: sort of scoping mission where we go in advance to 295 00:14:34,770 --> 00:14:35,790 S1: see what's going on. 296 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,740 S2: It's sounds very old fashioned, especially you're talking about going 297 00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:44,070 S2: into archives and meeting people in pubs, tech, taking out 298 00:14:44,070 --> 00:14:47,400 S2: stories and in freebie newspapers that, you know, in many 299 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,350 S2: parts of the world don't exist anymore. You know, I 300 00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:51,840 S2: haven't heard DNA testing. I haven't heard, you know, Google 301 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,330 S2: searches or anything. Let's talk about DNA testing. Is that 302 00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:56,400 S2: something that you do or so? 303 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,870 S1: DNA testing, I think, is brilliant in certain circumstances, but 304 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:04,290 S1: I think DNA testing will be wonderful when everybody is 305 00:15:04,290 --> 00:15:06,990 S1: on the database. That's when you really will be able 306 00:15:06,990 --> 00:15:09,120 S1: to find people. But in some cases, it does help. 307 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:12,110 S1: I think it's brilliant if you're looking for a birth relative, 308 00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:15,090 S1: if you were adopted and for certain situations like that, 309 00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:17,790 S1: or maybe if you're from somewhere that doesn't have any records, 310 00:15:17,790 --> 00:15:20,760 S1: such as Africa, I had another, actually, because if Bruce 311 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,920 S1: did make a joke at the beginning about how Lisa 312 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,150 S1: had a very unique story, I did have another murder suicide, actually, 313 00:15:27,570 --> 00:15:32,340 S1: and this one was unbelievable because we went to the archive. 314 00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:36,630 S1: It was in Britain and the lady who was, I think, 315 00:15:36,780 --> 00:15:40,350 S1: the granddaughter. Yep, she I said, we're going to find 316 00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:42,360 S1: the documents to do with your family and you'll read 317 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,750 S1: that actually, the husband was traumatised from the war, and 318 00:15:45,750 --> 00:15:49,200 S1: he came back several years later. He shot his wife 319 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,210 S1: and then he turned the gun on himself. Oh God, 320 00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:53,850 S1: the most incredible thing about that is we were looking 321 00:15:53,850 --> 00:15:57,450 S1: through the papers and in the documentation with the actual 322 00:15:57,450 --> 00:16:01,010 S1: bullets they had gone through the skulls of both people. 323 00:16:01,050 --> 00:16:03,480 S1: They've been kept by the police and the police records 324 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,970 S1: were kept in the archive. So it is, as you say, 325 00:16:06,010 --> 00:16:09,720 S1: prison is all about stories. It's all about understanding why 326 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,550 S1: my family had the motivation to do certain things, you know, OK, 327 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,660 S1: my family came to the US. Why did they come 328 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:18,990 S1: in 1855? What was going on in Sweden? What was 329 00:16:18,990 --> 00:16:21,570 S1: going on in Poland, what was going on in Ireland, 330 00:16:21,570 --> 00:16:23,670 S1: what was going on wherever, you know, why did they 331 00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:26,840 S1: come then? And you can really find out specifically, you know, 332 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,850 S1: the local areas, why they went there. It's great to 333 00:16:29,850 --> 00:16:31,830 S1: have names and dates on the big family tree, on 334 00:16:31,830 --> 00:16:32,790 S1: the wall. But if you don't know what any of 335 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:35,160 S1: those people did, it's kind of pointless, really. 336 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:38,670 S2: Right now, these stories OK, so you're based in in 337 00:16:38,670 --> 00:16:40,670 S2: the UK, and a lot of these stories are, you know, 338 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,330 S2: a lot of the Jewish stories, a lot of the 339 00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:45,450 S2: other ones, they're they're Eurocentric. I know you do offer 340 00:16:45,450 --> 00:16:48,000 S2: services in other parts of the world, too. And how 341 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,800 S2: is that going to, you know, whether if it's an 342 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,650 S2: African origin story or Asian or whatever it is like, 343 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,290 S2: how do you work differently in those areas than you 344 00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:55,830 S2: do in Europe? 345 00:16:56,460 --> 00:16:58,740 S1: I don't really work differently, to be honest, because it's 346 00:16:58,740 --> 00:17:02,190 S1: the same thing. Like in India, for example, India, there's 347 00:17:02,190 --> 00:17:04,980 S1: lots of records because India was governed by the British 348 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:08,850 S1: for many generations. Therefore, was a lot of bureaucracy there. So, 349 00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:11,730 S1: you know, bureaucracy means records. Hey, you know, so India 350 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:13,560 S1: is pretty good. You can go out there and find 351 00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:16,440 S1: throwing quite a lot of amazing records. You know, you 352 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,810 S1: can find records everywhere. You know, we have contacts with 353 00:17:18,810 --> 00:17:21,690 S1: people in China, you know, pretty much everywhere. And again, 354 00:17:21,690 --> 00:17:25,240 S1: that's what's so wonderful about having a television background. You know, 355 00:17:25,290 --> 00:17:28,290 S1: working for the BBC, there's always a local fixer somewhere. 356 00:17:28,590 --> 00:17:31,169 S1: So a lot of my trips to places that we 357 00:17:31,170 --> 00:17:34,620 S1: don't generally go to or by contacting the local fixer 358 00:17:34,619 --> 00:17:37,650 S1: and saying, Can you help me? But everybody loves the mystery, 359 00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:39,450 S1: so everybody likes helping out with that. 360 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,890 S3: Have you ever done your own history or Andy Taylor 361 00:17:43,890 --> 00:17:45,119 S3: your husband's history? 362 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:49,410 S1: Yup. So my own history, I was always told that 363 00:17:49,410 --> 00:17:54,820 S1: I was related direct ancestor, the first prime minister of Britain. Oh, 364 00:17:54,869 --> 00:17:56,670 S1: so I said to my mum, I'm going to look 365 00:17:56,670 --> 00:17:58,590 S1: into this. My mum's even got his name is called 366 00:17:58,590 --> 00:18:01,619 S1: Robert Walpole. She's even got his name in her extended 367 00:18:01,619 --> 00:18:03,780 S1: name anyway. So as I was going through, I was 368 00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:07,680 S1: getting closer and closer to the elusive prime minister and 369 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,760 S1: realized that suddenly, you know, the ancestors were butchers. I 370 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,540 S1: was thinking about this, lived in the same area, have 371 00:18:15,540 --> 00:18:19,170 S1: the same name butchers, and eventually I found out that, no, 372 00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:22,170 S1: we weren't related. But the really brilliant thing was I 373 00:18:22,170 --> 00:18:24,930 S1: sort of found out when the rumour started by a 374 00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:28,140 S1: letter that a relative had that sort of was from 375 00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:31,590 S1: an aunt who was quite a snob. And it sort 376 00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:33,659 S1: of felt from the letter that she was probably the 377 00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:39,600 S1: one that she'd married herself. Her surname was Walpole. So obviously, 378 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,510 S1: in order to elevate her status, she had started this 379 00:18:42,510 --> 00:18:44,340 S1: mess up, and I think that's how it started. 380 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,240 S2: Whether it's her own story or one of her clients, 381 00:18:48,510 --> 00:18:52,020 S2: Sue always finds something fascinating when she starts diving into 382 00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:55,419 S2: people's family histories. So who's the typical ancestor of? What 383 00:18:55,420 --> 00:18:59,710 S2: steps client are the individuals, entire families? We asked you, 384 00:18:59,859 --> 00:19:01,810 S2: what do these trips look like? 385 00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:06,730 S1: Very rarely one person, often its siblings. And again, it's 386 00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:10,510 S1: quite lovely because the siblings might not particularly see one another, 387 00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:13,480 S1: or sometimes they might not even get on a proper 388 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,700 S1: as well. You know, just like, Okay, I've been warned 389 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:17,770 S1: by both of them what's going to be really strange 390 00:19:17,770 --> 00:19:20,889 S1: trips that I really go with my sister? Know, OK, 391 00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:23,500 S1: deep breath. But then they arrive. And then at the end, 392 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:26,500 S1: it's like, this has been the most beautiful bonding experience 393 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,260 S1: with my sister, you know? So it's quite lovely to 394 00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:32,200 S1: see the family dynamics when you're on a trip. So 395 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,260 S1: many siblings. There's quite a lot of gifts of a 396 00:19:35,260 --> 00:19:38,500 S1: 50th birthday or 60th birthday. I've got a couple of 397 00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,610 S1: my mother's 70th, actually. And therefore often that person might 398 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,580 S1: hire a private jet and take an extended family with them. 399 00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:47,580 S1: So you could have 20 people on the trip because 400 00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:49,720 S1: it's a real chance to get everybody together. 401 00:19:51,609 --> 00:19:53,140 S2: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be 402 00:19:53,140 --> 00:19:55,370 S2: right back with Sue Lisa. 403 00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:57,969 UU: And later the wall in wrap up. 404 00:20:03,030 --> 00:20:06,810 S4: On medicine, we're still practicing joined Dr. Stephen Takeback and 405 00:20:06,810 --> 00:20:10,379 S4: Bill Kurtis for real conversations with the medical professionals who 406 00:20:10,380 --> 00:20:12,510 S4: have their finger on the pulse of health care in 407 00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:16,680 S4: the modern world. Available on all your favorite podcasting platforms. 408 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,270 S4: Produced by Kurt Coe Media. 409 00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:24,179 S2: Welcome back to our chat with Sue Hills from ancestral footsteps. 410 00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:28,199 S2: You mentioned private jets. You mentioned, you know, large groups 411 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,830 S2: traveling around stories in newspapers, your pre trips that you 412 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:35,790 S2: go to, you know, research this this is a complex undertaking, 413 00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:38,580 S2: no matter how it unfolds. And you know, there's tons 414 00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:41,250 S2: of hours of research that go into it. Tell me 415 00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:43,830 S2: a little bit about the cost of these trips and 416 00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:45,750 S2: how clients react to that cost. 417 00:20:46,350 --> 00:20:49,560 S1: Clients do react to the cost because it's something they've 418 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,160 S1: never done before, and it's something that they all say. 419 00:20:53,369 --> 00:20:56,219 S1: I'd never understood about the cost until I went on 420 00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:58,439 S1: the trip. So I say to them, how can I 421 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,950 S1: communicate that with future clients? They say, you can't. I 422 00:21:01,950 --> 00:21:05,310 S1: can't think how you communicate that so often a lot 423 00:21:05,310 --> 00:21:08,310 S1: of my trips come from referrals, because the way that's 424 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:11,730 S1: communicated is a dinner party or a gathering saying, Wow, 425 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:13,200 S1: you know, you've got to do this is the most 426 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,400 S1: amazing thing we've done. And the friends think of Michael 427 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,530 S1: and Jane are telling us it's the most amazing thing 428 00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:21,899 S1: they've done. They're really hard to impress. What is this? 429 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:22,290 S1: You know, 430 00:21:22,770 --> 00:21:25,800 S3: what's the process when someone reaches out to you? 431 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:30,270 S1: So the process is that someone reaches out. I say 432 00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:33,130 S1: that we need to start with research. And you know, 433 00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:35,550 S1: I'll spend several months while the team will spend several 434 00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:38,700 S1: months looking into it and we'll communicate with you at 435 00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:40,440 S1: the end of that. We can then say to you, 436 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,690 S1: there's a great trip here or is a great trip 437 00:21:42,690 --> 00:21:44,010 S1: that here's what you should do. 438 00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:46,290 S3: I know for me, we sort of did it special 439 00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:49,139 S3: to do this story, but what's the timeline in terms 440 00:21:49,140 --> 00:21:50,850 S3: of when someone reaches out to you to when they 441 00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:51,570 S3: go on a trip? 442 00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:55,380 S1: So the timeline again depends where you're from. I like 443 00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:57,750 S1: to say three to four months. But again, if you're 444 00:21:57,750 --> 00:22:00,300 S1: going to Eastern Europe, probably five to six months. 445 00:22:00,810 --> 00:22:05,340 S3: So meeting your husband Andy Taylor was fascinating because when 446 00:22:05,340 --> 00:22:08,189 S3: you picked me up and we were speeding on the 447 00:22:08,190 --> 00:22:10,950 S3: Audubon with Andy and I was sitting in the back 448 00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:12,960 S3: seat with him and he was setting the scene and 449 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,500 S3: he was basically talking to me about what was happening 450 00:22:16,530 --> 00:22:19,459 S3: in World War Two during the Battle of the Bulge 451 00:22:19,619 --> 00:22:22,220 S3: and what I would soon discover as we were going 452 00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:24,570 S3: to that German Belgian border and he was going to 453 00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:27,750 S3: take me to the area where he believed William would 454 00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:30,720 S3: have been. And the most amazing thing was we pulled 455 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,980 S3: over and Andy and I literally got down into a 456 00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:39,690 S3: 65 year old foxhole and he talked about trench warfare. 457 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:42,689 S3: And I just felt like, Oh God, like, this is 458 00:22:42,690 --> 00:22:46,650 S3: horrible and exhilarating, and I feel like I'm really connecting 459 00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:48,870 S3: with my relatives in a way that nobody else could 460 00:22:48,869 --> 00:22:49,649 S3: have done for me. 461 00:22:50,010 --> 00:22:51,500 S1: Now we do try and do a lot of the 462 00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:54,570 S1: experiential stuff like that, you know, even if it's corny, 463 00:22:54,570 --> 00:22:56,689 S1: you know, maybe we can go to the local, you know, 464 00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,640 S1: the ancestor was a blacksmith, but is relevant to go 465 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,100 S1: to a blacksmith who's still doing the old ways and 466 00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:04,770 S1: to maybe try your hand at that. Sometimes it is 467 00:23:04,770 --> 00:23:07,679 S1: relevant to try out a profession that they did or 468 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,140 S1: to understand how they did that. And again, I have 469 00:23:10,140 --> 00:23:13,200 S1: had all the people crashing down in foxholes, in foxholes. 470 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:16,409 S2: How does it differ? The chips that you put together 471 00:23:16,410 --> 00:23:19,590 S2: for the celebrity clients, for for the TV show that 472 00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:22,709 S2: you've directed compared with some of the private chips that 473 00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:24,869 S2: you've done, are they either very similar or are they 474 00:23:24,869 --> 00:23:25,770 S2: the stories unfold? 475 00:23:25,890 --> 00:23:29,109 S1: Yeah, they're very similar. Obviously, there's a much bigger team 476 00:23:29,109 --> 00:23:33,000 S1: of the television thing, whereas we're more multitasking here. You know, 477 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,310 S1: we'll put the trip together and we'll do the research 478 00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:38,399 S1: on the story. And it's exciting to, you know, show 479 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,850 S1: someone the census return rather than pointing out, Oh, here's 480 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:44,790 S1: your ancestor, and this is what they do. Look, you say, 481 00:23:44,790 --> 00:23:48,240 S1: can you find your ancestor? Oh, no, I can't, because 482 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,650 S1: the writing's really difficult. I'll try harder, you know, can 483 00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:54,230 S1: you read that? Okay. Oh yeah, no, I think I can. 484 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,470 S1: What does that say? Scale up? No, it says Taylor. Oh, Taylor, 485 00:23:58,470 --> 00:24:00,810 S1: okay to it. So that sort of thing is lovely 486 00:24:00,810 --> 00:24:02,609 S1: when people. And again, you can do that on the 487 00:24:02,609 --> 00:24:05,240 S1: trip where maybe the dad is racing with his son 488 00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:07,290 S1: just to read it the quickest. Who can see it 489 00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:10,470 S1: the quickest, you know? And you know, archives are traditionally 490 00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:12,990 S1: quite boring things for people. You know, lots of people 491 00:24:12,990 --> 00:24:15,870 S1: that are allergic to archives, but actually a trip to 492 00:24:15,869 --> 00:24:18,930 S1: the archive is quite an incredible thing because you do 493 00:24:18,930 --> 00:24:21,630 S1: see all the documents and you understand that someone would 494 00:24:21,630 --> 00:24:24,960 S1: have spent four days rifling through these tomes. And I 495 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,510 S1: might say, produce a couple of times that I know 496 00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:30,510 S1: that the signatures or the records are read and get 497 00:24:30,510 --> 00:24:32,880 S1: the client to sort of look through that and to 498 00:24:32,910 --> 00:24:34,379 S1: get a sense of, you know, this is what it's 499 00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:37,080 S1: like to find it. And again, it's much more exciting 500 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,640 S1: when you come across that yourself. The major thing like 501 00:24:39,660 --> 00:24:42,480 S1: page twenty two, third line down, off we go, right? 502 00:24:42,530 --> 00:24:45,240 S1: You know, so it's lovely, all that sort of discovery stuff. 503 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:45,929 S1: It's wonderful. 504 00:24:46,619 --> 00:24:48,780 S2: You know, a lot of the episodes of the TV show, 505 00:24:48,780 --> 00:24:53,320 S2: they they'll end with major realizations and tears a lot 506 00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:55,889 S2: of the times. But is the ending to these personalized 507 00:24:55,890 --> 00:24:58,050 S2: trips or is it similar? Is there that kind of 508 00:24:58,050 --> 00:25:00,720 S2: climax that they have and then that, wow, that was 509 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:01,680 S2: a life changing moment? 510 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,810 S1: Well, I think we do try and end it again. 511 00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:07,470 S1: I mean, sometimes maybe the television things can be shot 512 00:25:07,470 --> 00:25:09,869 S1: slightly out of sequence. If you see a story, a 513 00:25:09,869 --> 00:25:12,449 S1: reaction to a story is stronger. So you do the 514 00:25:12,450 --> 00:25:14,940 S1: maternal side in the first half of the program, the paternal, 515 00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:18,270 S1: the second. Possibly, you think in advance the maternal is 516 00:25:18,270 --> 00:25:20,250 S1: going to be stronger than maybe the paternal is so you. 517 00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:23,139 S1: You can change things, you know, not what happens, but 518 00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:27,670 S1: the order, maybe. So with my stories less so, but 519 00:25:27,670 --> 00:25:30,310 S1: you do have an idea of who which particular line 520 00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:32,890 S1: they're fascinated in. And I, yeah, I do think that 521 00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:35,110 S1: the last day you do try and keep your one 522 00:25:35,109 --> 00:25:36,460 S1: of your best things back for that. 523 00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:40,210 S3: I know for my story, you did hold one of 524 00:25:40,210 --> 00:25:42,940 S3: the best moments for the end, and it was quite 525 00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:45,520 S3: emotional for me to meet a relative and to see 526 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,070 S3: photos of my mother, which here I am in Germany. 527 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,679 S3: How does this woman have photos of my mother? I 528 00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:52,540 S3: think I got pretty teary and because I know I 529 00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:54,490 S3: just choked up looking at the story again just now. 530 00:25:54,490 --> 00:25:58,540 S3: And I'm wondering, have you ever gotten so invested in 531 00:25:58,540 --> 00:26:01,810 S3: a research story that you cried at the end? Do 532 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:03,669 S3: you ever get emotional at the end of these? 533 00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:07,480 S1: I do, definitely. I get emotional when other people get 534 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,590 S1: emotional as well. It's just incredible to see someone react 535 00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:15,250 S1: in a really deep way. I've really felt that really 536 00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:16,149 S1: fell out as well. 537 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,160 S3: Do you have a favorite that comes to mind? 538 00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:22,000 S1: I don't remember being really moved by a story with 539 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,410 S1: two brothers when they turned up at the Jewish cemetery 540 00:26:26,410 --> 00:26:29,800 S1: in Germany. This wonderful local man had been looking after, 541 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,660 S1: and he sort of took them up there on the hill. 542 00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:35,889 S1: And one of the brothers literally was sobbing because he 543 00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:38,860 S1: didn't know anything about this and didn't know it was 544 00:26:38,859 --> 00:26:42,160 S1: there was sobbing because it happened beautifully tended the fact 545 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,250 S1: that we all had a good cry. 546 00:26:43,660 --> 00:26:46,330 S3: People were caring for his relatives that he didn't even 547 00:26:46,330 --> 00:26:49,300 S3: know about. So like you said, the kindness of others 548 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:49,870 S3: moved him. 549 00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:54,250 S2: Yeah, well, the kindness of others and a lot of 550 00:26:54,250 --> 00:26:58,030 S2: work that goes behind setting up these reserves, 551 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,730 S1: that is what you pay for is all the work. 552 00:27:01,060 --> 00:27:04,990 S2: So thank you so much for joining us today. It's fascinating. 553 00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:08,230 S2: And someday I am going to follow in his footsteps 554 00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:10,840 S2: and figure out my own genealogical story. This has been 555 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,220 S2: fascinating and we look forward to many more adventures with. 556 00:27:16,270 --> 00:27:19,840 S2: And now for the wall and wrap up, a couple 557 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,369 S2: of years ago, I took my two daughters on a 558 00:27:21,369 --> 00:27:24,310 S2: trip to beliefs and like everyone who goes to Belize, 559 00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:27,130 S2: we went snorkeling. We were staying at Francis Ford Coppola's 560 00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:29,890 S2: Turtle Inn and we take a boat out way out, 561 00:27:30,010 --> 00:27:34,060 S2: stop at some tiny atoll out there and we go 562 00:27:34,060 --> 00:27:37,540 S2: out with a guide. We're about 300 yards offshore, see, 563 00:27:37,540 --> 00:27:40,240 S2: and all these fish, and all of a sudden I 564 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,050 S2: hear the screaming. I look up and the boat captain, 565 00:27:44,050 --> 00:27:46,420 S2: the guy who taken us out there, is on the beach, 566 00:27:46,510 --> 00:27:49,869 S2: waving his arms frantically and screaming at the top of 567 00:27:49,869 --> 00:27:53,830 S2: his lungs. And I think, Oh no. First thought, of course, 568 00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:56,860 S2: is Tiger Shark or Bull Shark, whatever it is. I 569 00:27:56,859 --> 00:27:59,290 S2: grab both my daughters hands and pull them close, and 570 00:27:59,290 --> 00:28:01,690 S2: I tap on our guide. I say, Hey, this guy, 571 00:28:01,780 --> 00:28:03,640 S2: you see how it is trying to get your attention. 572 00:28:04,210 --> 00:28:06,880 S2: He pops up. We can understand what the guy's saying. 573 00:28:07,150 --> 00:28:09,790 S2: This is going on for, I don't know, seemed like forever. 574 00:28:09,790 --> 00:28:13,630 S2: It was probably 30 seconds. But finally, we hear what 575 00:28:13,630 --> 00:28:18,700 S2: the guy's saying and he's screaming Manatee. So huge sense 576 00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:22,210 S2: of relief. And all the sudden it goes from terror 577 00:28:22,210 --> 00:28:25,689 S2: to joy. And we take off. We're going deeper and 578 00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:28,600 S2: deeper looking for these manatees. We catch up to them. 579 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,030 S2: We're swimming with them for a long time, like up 580 00:28:31,030 --> 00:28:34,780 S2: and down. They're feeding such a magical experience. But the 581 00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:37,990 S2: whole thing, just like, unfolded in this dramatic fashion, at 582 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:40,930 S2: least for us. And it felt like, you know, like 583 00:28:40,930 --> 00:28:42,520 S2: we were living in a movie which was, you know, 584 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,700 S2: appropriate considering we were staying at Coppola's resort. But it's 585 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:50,170 S2: a sense of drama when traveling not necessarily scary or anything, 586 00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:54,310 S2: but that storytelling travel as a story, trips as stories. 587 00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:58,150 S2: I think Sue Hill's trips, the ancestral footsteps, trips, they 588 00:28:58,150 --> 00:29:01,480 S2: really epitomize that they're, you know, they're very personal, of course, 589 00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:05,170 S2: but they're emotional. There's ups and downs. I mean, when 590 00:29:05,170 --> 00:29:08,380 S2: was the last time a trip brought you to tears 591 00:29:08,380 --> 00:29:12,580 S2: of joy? I mean, that's great storytelling right there. And clearly, 592 00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:15,430 S2: her TV background has something to do with her ability 593 00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:19,540 S2: to tell great stories, but everybody has that ability. So 594 00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:23,200 S2: whether it's your family history or some random adventure, get 595 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,620 S2: out there and create some stories of your own. I'd 596 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:31,479 S2: like to thank Sue Hills and Lisa Sweetie Hamm for 597 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,990 S2: joining us today on travel that matters. For more information 598 00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:37,750 S2: on ancestral footsteps, please check out our show notes and 599 00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:42,250 S2: visit Kurt Kokum. The show is produced for Kirk Commedia 600 00:29:42,250 --> 00:29:46,060 S2: by A.J. Moseley and Doris Stone Music by Joey Salvia. 601 00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:49,090 S2: I'm Bruce Wallen and we'll see you down the road. 602 00:29:57,970 --> 00:30:01,480 S3: Kurt Commedia. Media for your mind.