WEBVTT - 61 - Why Michael Steele Remains a Republican 0:00:00.750 --> 0:00:03.420 From Kerkow media. So what are you going to do 0:00:03.420 --> 0:00:03.990 about it? 0:00:04.650 --> 0:00:07.470 You know, we have a habit of consuming all things, 0:00:07.470 --> 0:00:10.380 news and politics through the filter of our own opinion. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:15.660 But sometimes new situations arise or sometimes we listen to 0:00:15.660 --> 0:00:19.020 both sides of a complicated issue and we learn something different. 0:00:19.260 --> 0:00:22.020 Or sometimes if we're willing to give it some thought, 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:26.520 we may even find that we've changed our minds. Our 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.430 guest today served as the chairman of the Republican National 0:00:29.430 --> 0:00:33.060 Committee and some of his views may surprise you. So 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.419 stick around. This is politics. Meet me in the middle. 0:00:36.810 --> 0:00:42.150 I'm Bill Kurtis. Once again, my co-host is Jane Albrecht 0:00:42.330 --> 0:00:45.720 as an international trade attorney. She fought for U.S. economic 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.580 and business interests to high level government officials in many countries. 0:00:49.620 --> 0:00:50.400 She's a member 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:51.330 of the U.S. Supreme 0:00:51.330 --> 0:00:52.979 Court bar and she's also been 0:00:52.979 --> 0:00:55.680 involved with several U.S. presidential campaigns. 0:00:55.860 --> 0:00:58.830 Welcome, Jane. Thanks. Always nice to be here and welcome, Michael. 0:00:59.060 --> 0:01:03.540 Michael Steele is an American conservative political commentator and attorney 0:01:03.570 --> 0:01:06.930 and a former Republican Party politician. He served as the 0:01:06.930 --> 0:01:10.200 seventh lieutenant governor of Maryland. By the way, he was 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:14.319 the first African-American elected to any statewide office in Maryland. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.060 He's also served as chairperson of the Republican National Committee. 0:01:18.180 --> 0:01:20.820 And he was the first African-American to serve in that 0:01:20.819 --> 0:01:21.869 capacity as well. 0:01:21.990 --> 0:01:22.590 You've seen him 0:01:22.590 --> 0:01:25.200 on CNN and MSNBC, FOX and 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:26.399 frankly, everywhere, 0:01:26.490 --> 0:01:29.790 as he's often in the news outlets for his perspectives. 0:01:30.060 --> 0:01:34.050 Back in 20/20, like some other lifelong Republicans, he formally 0:01:34.050 --> 0:01:37.950 endorsed Joe Biden for the presidency. Michael, thank you for 0:01:37.950 --> 0:01:39.510 joining us today. This is exciting. 0:01:39.690 --> 0:01:42.040 Thank you. It's good to be here. Absolutely. 0:01:42.420 --> 0:01:45.540 Michael, you've said that you're still a Republican. Does that 0:01:45.540 --> 0:01:46.470 hold true today 0:01:46.470 --> 0:01:48.120 as we speak? Yeah, still 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.860 does. Haters will hate and 0:01:49.860 --> 0:01:50.670 God bless them. 0:01:50.670 --> 0:01:52.710 But I've been in this a lot longer than a 0:01:52.710 --> 0:01:55.560 lot of the haters who just showed up. And for me, 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:57.780 it's tough. I'm not I don't want to play it off. And, 0:01:57.860 --> 0:02:00.300 you know, I turn a blind eye to some of 0:02:00.300 --> 0:02:04.410 the horrendously racist and xenophobic and, quite 0:02:04.410 --> 0:02:06.060 frankly, ugly behavior 0:02:06.060 --> 0:02:09.329 of some of the members of my party. But like 0:02:09.330 --> 0:02:11.549 any good person, parent 0:02:11.550 --> 0:02:13.020 leader, you try to 0:02:13.020 --> 0:02:16.920 correct bad behavior. And so far, at least now, I 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.470 welcome standing in that breach to talk about 0:02:19.650 --> 0:02:21.420 the ideas and the 0:02:21.419 --> 0:02:25.980 ideals of a once proud party that though many may 0:02:25.980 --> 0:02:31.320 have disagreed with some of our policy prescriptions, they they 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.900 did not view us through the very narrow and ugly 0:02:33.900 --> 0:02:38.010 lenses that we portray ourselves today. And it's important to 0:02:38.010 --> 0:02:40.230 understand why that is why that 0:02:40.380 --> 0:02:41.610 lens has sort of been 0:02:41.610 --> 0:02:44.820 created as a look for the party. And those of 0:02:44.820 --> 0:02:47.790 us inside have seen this coming for quite some time. 0:02:47.820 --> 0:02:50.410 I think it's still, at least right now, Bill, worth 0:02:50.460 --> 0:02:52.710 standing in the breach to try to correct it 0:02:53.070 --> 0:02:55.440 before we get into the whole scenario of where the 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.360 party is and where it's going. I think I'd like 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.010 to come in the side door, if you don't mind. 0:02:59.020 --> 0:03:03.839 And sure, for the sake of this question, congratulations, Michael. 0:03:04.050 --> 0:03:07.739 You are again, the chairman of the Republican Party. So 0:03:07.740 --> 0:03:10.980 I'm not asking you here what you or the party 0:03:10.980 --> 0:03:13.280 won't be any more right now. We'll get to that later. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.380 What are the specific steps that you will now take 0:03:16.380 --> 0:03:17.640 to make it your party again? 0:03:18.419 --> 0:03:22.830 Well, that's that's a tough question to answer, because that 0:03:22.830 --> 0:03:28.260 answer requires a commitment not just from someone from one person, 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.320 but an entire group of people. We all have to 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.140 be on the same mind and same page about what 0:03:34.139 --> 0:03:37.260 the party is and what it isn't. So while I 0:03:37.260 --> 0:03:40.320 may try to, as I did when I was national chairman, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.950 move the party to embrace not just his historic past, 0:03:44.370 --> 0:03:47.130 but what I think would be an important and a 0:03:47.130 --> 0:03:53.370 historic future that most closely resemble the emerging diversity of 0:03:53.580 --> 0:03:56.790 this great experiment we call America. You've got to have 0:03:56.790 --> 0:03:59.250 buy into that. People have got to believe and want 0:03:59.250 --> 0:04:02.550 that to be a part of their own journey, their 0:04:02.580 --> 0:04:06.180 own story, as I said, to chairman of the state 0:04:06.180 --> 0:04:08.460 parties in the National Committee, men and women who 0:04:08.460 --> 0:04:10.020 work with them. We know them 0:04:10.020 --> 0:04:12.090 affectionately as the one hundred and sixty eight members who 0:04:12.090 --> 0:04:15.210 make up the RNC. That I'm not a Pied Piper, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.060 no chairman is a Pied Piper. What I try to 0:04:18.060 --> 0:04:22.050 do is give guidance and direction, give vision and purpose, 0:04:22.230 --> 0:04:26.190 elevate our principles and ideas. But it matters what you 0:04:26.190 --> 0:04:29.370 do on the ground. And if you're not down with 0:04:29.370 --> 0:04:34.950 expanding the party's influence and base among a growing, diverse 0:04:34.950 --> 0:04:39.270 population of voters, it won't happen no matter what I preach. 0:04:39.300 --> 0:04:41.520 Are you saying, Michael, that you think it's kind of 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.180 beyond help or can you, as a leader of the party, 0:04:45.390 --> 0:04:47.670 make some moves that are going to set it in 0:04:47.670 --> 0:04:48.480 the right direction? 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.100 Yeah, I think it's not beyond help at this point. 0:04:52.110 --> 0:04:54.990 You've got to have leaders who are willing to state 0:04:54.990 --> 0:04:58.620 the case and make the case in front of the 0:04:58.620 --> 0:05:02.430 party as a whole and and give them their charge 0:05:02.430 --> 0:05:05.490 that you'll either pick up that charge and agree. Yes, 0:05:05.490 --> 0:05:10.380 we like an expanding, diverse base of African-Americans, Hispanics, gay 0:05:10.380 --> 0:05:15.029 and lesbian Americans, etc., or we don't. We want to 0:05:15.029 --> 0:05:21.060 have a more isolated, insulated base of white segregationist Republican men. 0:05:21.089 --> 0:05:23.430 So you tell me which way you want to go. 0:05:23.430 --> 0:05:26.430 And that would tell me whether or not the party 0:05:26.430 --> 0:05:28.740 is prepared to move into its future. Look, at the 0:05:28.740 --> 0:05:32.010 end of the day, Bill, if you don't want help, 0:05:32.339 --> 0:05:36.300 you won't get helped. If you don't change your behavior, 0:05:36.300 --> 0:05:40.250 then you will continue to do bad. Things or behave 0:05:40.250 --> 0:05:43.810 in a way that does not help you, so, you know, 0:05:43.970 --> 0:05:46.700 when you have people inside the party who are doubling 0:05:46.700 --> 0:05:49.640 down and coming out of the 20 20 election and 0:05:49.650 --> 0:05:53.420 certainly coming on after January six, saying that this is 0:05:53.420 --> 0:05:56.540 Trump's party, everybody get used to it. Well, we know 0:05:56.540 --> 0:05:59.030 what Trump and Trump ism has meant and what it 0:05:59.029 --> 0:06:02.780 has done. So if you're telling me that's who we are, then, OK, 0:06:02.779 --> 0:06:05.210 you've now drawn a line that I'm willing to fight 0:06:05.210 --> 0:06:07.940 for or fight over. I may or may not win 0:06:07.940 --> 0:06:10.669 that battle, but I just don't walk away. I've been 0:06:10.670 --> 0:06:12.770 doing this for far too long, just to walk away 0:06:12.770 --> 0:06:17.060 from stupid that's standing in front of me. So my 0:06:17.060 --> 0:06:20.890 thing is, let's push back against stupid the you know, 0:06:20.900 --> 0:06:25.340 the Idiocracy that is now the leadership of the GOP 0:06:25.339 --> 0:06:29.450 in many respects, that blindly follows a man who is 0:06:29.450 --> 0:06:34.490 neither a conservative nor Republican who is devoid of any 0:06:34.490 --> 0:06:38.840 values set or principles that anyone would want to impart 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.479 to their own children, let alone a nation, and see 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:42.050 where we are. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.110 Michael, this is admirable, but you act 0:06:45.110 --> 0:06:48.310 like the Republican Party is an innocent victim to all this. 0:06:48.650 --> 0:06:51.940 In fact, they made a pact with the devil back 0:06:52.010 --> 0:06:53.839 when they adopted the Southern Strategy. 0:06:54.020 --> 0:06:54.440 Sure. 0:06:54.750 --> 0:06:56.750 It's really not gone away. 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.190 Well, look, it's not just a Southern strategy, but it's also, 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.940 you know, it's the same pack that the Democrats made. 0:07:07.130 --> 0:07:09.830 So, no, it's not the same pack that the Democrats 0:07:09.830 --> 0:07:11.240 may yell 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.120 for about one hundred years. This is the problem. Everybody 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.630 wants to put them in nice little neat partisan buckets. 0:07:16.910 --> 0:07:20.060 And the reality of it is this is our political system. 0:07:20.420 --> 0:07:23.420 It is something that is a scourge on both parties 0:07:23.630 --> 0:07:27.200 who played a role in animating and pushing out these narratives, 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.280 particularly in the race based so that Southern strategy came 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.700 to life. Why? Because Lyndon Johnson, who himself was a 0:07:34.700 --> 0:07:36.650 segregationist, decided 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:42.050 political expediency, history, all of that to embrace basically Robert 0:07:42.050 --> 0:07:43.250 Kennedy's agenda on 0:07:43.250 --> 0:07:44.810 civil rights that was 0:07:44.810 --> 0:07:47.390 born into the sort of voting rights space in the 0:07:47.390 --> 0:07:52.100 civil rights space, which you had Republicans that Johnson leaned 0:07:52.100 --> 0:07:55.040 on to help get that through in sixty four. In 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.030 sixty five. So so but it goes back to what 0:07:59.030 --> 0:08:03.320 what you saw in the nineteen sixty four presidential race 0:08:03.650 --> 0:08:07.940 when Barry Goldwater doubled down on segregation, because that's the 0:08:07.940 --> 0:08:11.840 beginning of the Southern Strategy. Remember, the South was Democratic, 0:08:11.870 --> 0:08:15.470 not Republican at that time. The North was Republican. I 0:08:15.470 --> 0:08:20.120 remember that shift to the South. Becoming Republican was part 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.610 of the strategy because you could not win a presidential 0:08:22.610 --> 0:08:26.000 race without picking up states in the South. And so 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.060 the calculation going back to Goldwater, which is why you 0:08:29.060 --> 0:08:31.790 had that embrace in Goldwater later on in his life, 0:08:31.790 --> 0:08:35.390 repudiated that stand in sixty four because he realized what 0:08:35.390 --> 0:08:39.230 Pandora's box he had opened by taking a cold, calculated 0:08:39.230 --> 0:08:43.670 political strategy and applying it in a political process with 0:08:43.670 --> 0:08:47.330 a party that had a long standing civil rights history, 0:08:47.330 --> 0:08:50.479 if you will, up to that point. So the reality 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.360 began for us in that. And I and I'm not 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.640 disputing your point. I think you make a very valid 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.479 point about the poison and the role that that poison 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.929 played in the modern day Republican Party. 0:09:01.940 --> 0:09:02.660 But I think it's 0:09:02.660 --> 0:09:06.350 important to understand that art in the political calculations to it, 0:09:06.590 --> 0:09:10.040 that Nixon took advantage of coming off of that horrible 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:16.460 convention speech of Goldwater in 64 where he embraced segregation ism. 0:09:16.730 --> 0:09:20.630 Nixon saw the political opportunism of that in winning his 0:09:20.630 --> 0:09:24.739 presidential race in 68, and even Reagan played into it 0:09:24.740 --> 0:09:27.890 when he launched his campaign in 1980 in one of 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:32.960 the ugliest spots in Mississippi relative to the question of race. So, yeah, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.920 that narrative is there for sure. But that does not 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.010 mean that there were people inside the party who fought 0:09:40.010 --> 0:09:41.429 against that narrative as well. 0:09:41.780 --> 0:09:45.650 Michael, are the voters a reflection of the Republican Party 0:09:45.650 --> 0:09:48.229 or is the Republican Party a reflection of the voters? 0:09:48.410 --> 0:09:51.800 Both. Both. It's symbiotic. I mean, you see it on 0:09:51.850 --> 0:09:53.240 you see it on the left as much as you 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:57.109 see it on the right. You have a situation where 0:09:57.350 --> 0:10:01.520 over the last 30 or so years, the base of 0:10:01.550 --> 0:10:04.550 of staying with the Republican Party, the base of the party, 0:10:04.550 --> 0:10:07.189 has become much more animated, engaged. And why is that? 0:10:07.190 --> 0:10:11.750 Because that base has felt more and more disenfranchised, disconnected, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.110 which allowed that space for Donald Trump to come in 0:10:15.380 --> 0:10:19.520 and play the kind of narrative out that he played out, 0:10:19.850 --> 0:10:24.650 keeping in mind that what Donald Trump did was effectively 0:10:24.890 --> 0:10:29.420 take his viewers over a 14, 15 year period and 0:10:29.420 --> 0:10:32.210 turn them into his voters. They so he had already 0:10:32.210 --> 0:10:34.520 been talking to a lot of those folks out there 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.160 through the various media outlets. That he was on where 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.740 he connected with these voters, which is why the overwhelming 0:10:41.740 --> 0:10:45.190 thing you hear about Donald Trump from a lot of 0:10:45.190 --> 0:10:48.429 his supporters is he's a fighter. It's not about policy. 0:10:48.429 --> 0:10:50.590 It's not about these other things. So I think you 0:10:50.590 --> 0:10:51.730 look more broadly 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:53.380 at where the 0:10:53.380 --> 0:10:57.460 line is between the voters and the party. And it's 0:10:57.460 --> 0:11:00.670 a story of the tail getting to the point where 0:11:00.670 --> 0:11:03.610 it wags the dog. And I think that's what drives 0:11:03.610 --> 0:11:04.569 a lot of it right now. 0:11:07.820 --> 0:11:11.630 A moment of your time, a new podcast from Kerkow Media. 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:16.370 Currently 21 years old and today, like magic, extended from 0:11:16.370 --> 0:11:18.890 her fingertips down to the blood to take care of 0:11:18.890 --> 0:11:21.430 yourself because the world needs you and you meet 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.270 every do gooder that asked about me was ready to 0:11:23.270 --> 0:11:24.750 spit on my dream fingers 0:11:24.750 --> 0:11:27.290 who were facing you can feel like your purpose in 0:11:27.290 --> 0:11:30.020 your worth is really being done to stop me from 0:11:30.350 --> 0:11:33.380 playing the piano. She buys walkie talkies, wonders to whom 0:11:33.380 --> 0:11:35.180 she should give the second. Don't love 0:11:35.179 --> 0:11:36.530 humans. We never did. 0:11:36.530 --> 0:11:38.660 We never. Well, we just find the beauty of 0:11:38.660 --> 0:11:41.420 rock climbing is that you can only focus on what's 0:11:41.420 --> 0:11:44.900 right in life and so are American life begins. 0:11:45.890 --> 0:11:49.240 We may need to stay apart, but let's create together 0:11:49.580 --> 0:11:54.200 available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece by Kerkow Dotcom. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:55.490 Slash a moment of your time. 0:12:01.450 --> 0:12:03.880 Let's talk about today's reality, Michael, for just a second, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.480 because it seems that any Republican now that has a 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.559 conscience or says anything responsible gets run out of town 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.679 on a rail. Where did these voters come from and 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.360 how did they get so radicalized? 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.990 They've been radicalized over a long period of time. It 0:12:19.990 --> 0:12:23.800 just didn't happen in four years or in one political cycle. 0:12:23.980 --> 0:12:26.920 You had Tea Party before that. You had a lot 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.120 of disaffected voters in the 2006 election, the 2000 election. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.709 You had a lot of frustrated voters in the 1990s 0:12:35.710 --> 0:12:38.229 and 80s. And so this is this is a trend 0:12:38.230 --> 0:12:40.660 line that's been in place for a long time in 0:12:40.660 --> 0:12:43.720 a lot of those voters check themselves out of the system. 0:12:44.170 --> 0:12:47.470 They just stop participating, which was the big surprise of 0:12:47.470 --> 0:12:50.870 twenty sixteen when they finally showed back up. And all 0:12:50.890 --> 0:12:53.410 these voters who no one was counting on, no one 0:12:53.410 --> 0:12:57.520 was polling, no one was talking to folks discounted because 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.340 of their God and their guns or they discounted them 0:13:00.340 --> 0:13:05.830 because they were somehow bad people or are not serious 0:13:05.830 --> 0:13:09.339 or smart or anything like that. They decided to show 0:13:09.340 --> 0:13:12.880 up and vote. Their avatar was Donald Trump. So you've 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.030 got to look at how these voters, particularly on the 0:13:16.030 --> 0:13:19.090 Republican side, and I would dare say currently on the 0:13:19.300 --> 0:13:22.420 on the Democratic side, you have the same issue with 0:13:22.420 --> 0:13:26.470 progressives who've emerged as a as a fighting force inside 0:13:26.470 --> 0:13:29.710 the Democratic Party. And if you don't learn the lesson 0:13:29.710 --> 0:13:32.200 from the GOP, you are doomed to make the same 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.140 mistakes that were made inside the GOP with respect to 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.220 that very hard conservative base. And so while the Republican 0:13:39.220 --> 0:13:42.819 side is more about the culture wars, the Democratic side 0:13:42.820 --> 0:13:46.360 is more about the economic wars. And so those are 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:51.100 competing interests in this voter narrative that I think voters 0:13:51.370 --> 0:13:56.200 who feel isolated are looking for avatars, looking for voices, 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.319 looking for leaders who reflect that. That's how you come 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.079 up with the Marjorie Taylor Green. That's how you come 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:06.429 up with a crazy gates down in Florida. So the 0:14:06.429 --> 0:14:12.579 realities are where those voters now are selecting people who 0:14:12.580 --> 0:14:16.329 they think can push back and attack the system that 0:14:16.330 --> 0:14:20.080 they've come to dislike. That's one of the animating ideas 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.050 around Donald Trump and Trump ism, is to, as he 0:14:23.050 --> 0:14:25.640 said he would do, deconstruct the administrative state. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:27.940 Michael, I think you make really good points and you 0:14:27.940 --> 0:14:31.330 talk about the willingness to fight, to change, to bring 0:14:31.330 --> 0:14:34.930 the Republican Party back to its original ideals. But when 0:14:34.930 --> 0:14:37.810 you talk about the frustration of these voters, part of 0:14:37.810 --> 0:14:38.410 it is that 0:14:38.410 --> 0:14:39.580 the Republicans 0:14:39.580 --> 0:14:43.210 courted the white working class. Sure. But they courted them 0:14:43.210 --> 0:14:48.550 on false promises. Their policies really benefited the wealthy and corporations. 0:14:48.550 --> 0:14:53.110 The policies that no government, no taxes, no regulation, all 0:14:53.110 --> 0:14:54.100 government is bad. 0:14:54.110 --> 0:14:56.890 And then when the Republican Party didn't deliver on that, 0:14:56.890 --> 0:15:00.070 their base got more frustrated. It was the Republican base 0:15:00.070 --> 0:15:02.500 that became the Tea Party after George W. Bush 0:15:03.070 --> 0:15:03.880 and then the 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.280 conservative money embraced the Tea Party, and it just kept 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.150 getting spiraled into more and more extremism. And part of that, 0:15:10.150 --> 0:15:13.180 as you know, was promoted by lies. The Republican Party 0:15:13.180 --> 0:15:16.580 told their base, not just the big lie last time. 0:15:16.650 --> 0:15:16.940 All right. 0:15:16.940 --> 0:15:18.400 So you say all of that. So what do you 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:19.870 what do you want to do about it? What do 0:15:19.870 --> 0:15:21.220 you think you do about it? Let me throw the 0:15:21.220 --> 0:15:24.430 question to you, because, you know, the question is, what 0:15:24.430 --> 0:15:27.250 are you fighting over? I can fight the past and yeah, 0:15:27.250 --> 0:15:30.100 I can list the sins of the father and the 0:15:30.100 --> 0:15:33.070 grandfather and the great grandfather, but I don't live in 0:15:33.070 --> 0:15:35.590 that time. So the question is, what do I do 0:15:35.590 --> 0:15:38.860 with that? I cannot only thing I can do is 0:15:38.860 --> 0:15:41.680 acknowledge the truth of it. When I was national chairman, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.990 I gave a speech at the National Press Club, which 0:15:43.990 --> 0:15:48.250 I definitely declared that the efforts by the party to 0:15:48.250 --> 0:15:52.060 engage in the Southern Strategy was over. The Southern Strategy 0:15:52.060 --> 0:15:54.340 was dead. I took that speech and went to the 0:15:54.340 --> 0:15:59.590 NAACP and declared without hesitation that we are broadening the 0:15:59.590 --> 0:16:01.510 base of our party and we need you to be 0:16:01.510 --> 0:16:03.550 a part of that. Ken Mehlman did the same thing. 0:16:03.550 --> 0:16:05.710 He was the first one to acknowledge the sins of 0:16:05.740 --> 0:16:09.520 the father and the grandfather. So the question then becomes 0:16:09.940 --> 0:16:13.660 in this internal struggle inside of a party in which 0:16:13.660 --> 0:16:16.600 people seem to be more interested in crouching in a 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.410 corner and looking out at the world and saying, you 0:16:20.410 --> 0:16:24.010 are against us and therefore we are against you, as 0:16:24.010 --> 0:16:28.120 opposed to recognizing the lie of that. How did you 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.270 then help them out of that corner? How do you 0:16:31.270 --> 0:16:35.450 then move that party for. And that is to be honest, Jane, 0:16:35.470 --> 0:16:39.010 that is the real battle that's occurring there. Republicans right 0:16:39.010 --> 0:16:41.920 now who are just saying, I'm out of here. I 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:43.930 don't want any part of it. This thing is dead 0:16:43.930 --> 0:16:45.970 to me. I'm going to go start a third party. 0:16:45.970 --> 0:16:48.040 I'm going to do something else. Then there are other 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.860 Republicans are like, well, OK, that may or may not 0:16:50.860 --> 0:16:53.770 be true. We'll see. And then there guys like myself, 0:16:53.770 --> 0:16:57.940 like I'm already to do something else, but I think 0:16:57.940 --> 0:16:59.920 I want to try to terraform this first. I'm going 0:16:59.920 --> 0:17:03.150 to try to bring. Many of those folks who still 0:17:03.150 --> 0:17:06.899 believe in those ideas, I don't need the majority of 0:17:06.900 --> 0:17:11.160 Greens in my party, I want them gone. I want 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.770 them in the wasteland of politics, on the ash heap 0:17:13.770 --> 0:17:16.230 of history. I don't need them. We don't need them 0:17:16.230 --> 0:17:18.600 as a country. So the question is, how do you 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.600 then pull people away from that? Someone's got to take 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.180 a stand and someone's got to say this is worth 0:17:24.180 --> 0:17:26.879 fighting for. And if they don't, then basically what you're 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.060 saying is, screw it, the GOP will go the way 0:17:30.060 --> 0:17:32.490 of the Whigs and whatever shows up next will show 0:17:32.490 --> 0:17:34.980 up next. And we'll just live with what Democrats give 0:17:34.980 --> 0:17:38.040 us for the next however many years. I'm not willing 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.200 to settle on that at this point. 0:17:40.740 --> 0:17:43.740 I agree that's a huge task to try to take 0:17:43.740 --> 0:17:47.430 this party from where it has gotten itself and try 0:17:47.430 --> 0:17:50.300 to basically fight for the heart and soul of the 0:17:50.310 --> 0:17:53.370 of the Republican Party. Yeah, I think you really have 0:17:53.369 --> 0:17:56.550 to start with how human beings change. I think you 0:17:56.550 --> 0:17:59.670 also you have to be willing to take an honest 0:17:59.670 --> 0:18:01.410 look at yourself and 0:18:01.410 --> 0:18:02.310 say, where did I 0:18:02.310 --> 0:18:05.350 get it wrong? And then learn and grow from that. Sure. 0:18:05.700 --> 0:18:08.940 So that starts with the leaders of the Republican Party 0:18:08.940 --> 0:18:11.730 as many as possible, starting to tell the truth, not 0:18:11.730 --> 0:18:14.520 talking about confessing of sins, but the truth about what 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.070 the situation is today. Right. 0:18:16.260 --> 0:18:20.399 Jane, the politicians in the Republican Party are reacting to 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.379 what brings in their voters. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:23.060 That's it. 0:18:23.100 --> 0:18:23.699 They're not 0:18:23.700 --> 0:18:24.510 governing. 0:18:24.540 --> 0:18:25.890 They're not governing or leaving. 0:18:26.490 --> 0:18:30.690 They're not leading anything. They are, in fact, politicians. So 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.649 why should they change their direction if what they're doing 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.140 is giving them a situation where they're winning? 0:18:38.060 --> 0:18:40.280 But I'm talking about telling the truth, I'm not talking 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:41.490 about confessing sense, 0:18:41.510 --> 0:18:43.850 but you would like them to tell the truth, but 0:18:43.850 --> 0:18:47.410 the truth didn't necessarily work, right? The lies have worked. 0:18:47.420 --> 0:18:49.520 If the truth doesn't win you an election. Why would 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.409 I tell it? I mean, let me take let me 0:18:51.410 --> 0:18:54.730 tell you what the thinking is right now, Jane. Mm hmm. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.710 The thinking inside the GOP right now is and this 0:18:57.710 --> 0:19:00.350 is reflected by Mitch McConnell, if you want to get 0:19:00.350 --> 0:19:02.200 a bead on what's going on, just listen to what 0:19:02.210 --> 0:19:05.390 the man's telling you. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So Mitch 0:19:05.390 --> 0:19:09.680 McConnell has already calculated and what he's saying is evidence 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.710 that suggests to him, sorry, we get the house back 0:19:12.710 --> 0:19:16.010 next year, we'll just hold this line. Our voters are 0:19:16.010 --> 0:19:18.199 going to be fired up to to take back the 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.370 House next year and we'll grab the Senate along the way. 0:19:21.380 --> 0:19:24.649 Now that the political realities of that may be very 0:19:24.650 --> 0:19:28.490 different a year from now than they are presently. But 0:19:28.490 --> 0:19:31.040 that's the calculation. And I think, Bill, you make the 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.590 right point. Where is the incentive to acknowledge the truth? 0:19:36.170 --> 0:19:40.010 We've watched the president in the former United States crap 0:19:40.010 --> 0:19:42.590 all over the truth for five years. What price to 0:19:42.590 --> 0:19:44.790 be paid for it? Oh, he got impeached twice. 0:19:45.050 --> 0:19:47.780 So what I'm going to take a right turn for 0:19:47.780 --> 0:19:51.859 a second. January six was a big day, Michael. If 0:19:51.859 --> 0:19:54.680 the folks who broke into the Capitol on January 6th 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.190 were handed the keys to the government other than to 0:19:58.190 --> 0:20:01.820 anoint Trump back in power, what do they want? What 0:20:01.820 --> 0:20:03.890 would they do if they were in charge? 0:20:04.670 --> 0:20:06.890 That's a hard question, because I don't think they know 0:20:06.890 --> 0:20:08.810 what they would do. They could because they were they 0:20:08.810 --> 0:20:11.690 were they were rudderless. They had a command. They had 0:20:11.869 --> 0:20:14.390 they were on a ship with no rudder. They had 0:20:14.390 --> 0:20:17.120 a they had a captain of the ship, President Trump, 0:20:17.810 --> 0:20:21.619 who was just saying this way with no idea what 0:20:21.930 --> 0:20:24.469 what it would look like when they got to where 0:20:24.470 --> 0:20:29.180 this was. So outside of wanting to to kill the 0:20:29.180 --> 0:20:31.790 vice president and the speaker of the House, I don't 0:20:31.790 --> 0:20:33.530 think there was much more of a plan. 0:20:33.710 --> 0:20:34.280 There wasn't. 0:20:34.550 --> 0:20:37.520 And so what does that mean for Jane as a 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.560 white woman? What does that mean for me as a 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.379 black man? I would say, are you with some of 0:20:42.410 --> 0:20:45.410 these people's are our fates would have been a little 0:20:45.410 --> 0:20:48.890 bit suspect in the hands of some of these people. 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:53.540 That's the reality. They are threatened by the success and 0:20:53.540 --> 0:20:56.240 the power of a woman like Jane and what she's 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.170 done in her career professionally and personally. They're threatened by 0:21:00.170 --> 0:21:02.670 what I stand for. And what I've done in mine 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.870 is as a black man, they see in America that 0:21:05.869 --> 0:21:09.100 never existed. And Trump alludes to that all the time. 0:21:09.260 --> 0:21:11.870 You don't think they're just voting their tax rate? No. 0:21:11.900 --> 0:21:14.750 Oh, no, bill. Not not the ones that stormed the capital. 0:21:14.750 --> 0:21:16.969 There's other people that do, but not the ones that 0:21:16.970 --> 0:21:17.869 stormed the Capitol. 0:21:18.050 --> 0:21:20.510 No, they're not voting tax rates now. 0:21:20.750 --> 0:21:22.950 Do they believe the election was really stolen? 0:21:23.330 --> 0:21:23.929 Yes. 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:26.810 Yes, they do. They were told 0:21:26.810 --> 0:21:31.280 that by a guy six months before he was not elected. Correct. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.210 He said if I lose, it's because it's it's a fraud. 0:21:35.420 --> 0:21:38.690 And so that tells you that they were more invested 0:21:38.690 --> 0:21:40.760 in him than they were the country. And that should 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:42.500 be scary to all of us. And a lesson to 0:21:42.500 --> 0:21:43.760 all of us. Right. 0:21:44.060 --> 0:21:46.609 I think a lot of what is going on in 0:21:46.609 --> 0:21:49.790 America right now is based on a lot of leaders 0:21:49.790 --> 0:21:52.639 lying and a lot of media lies going on. And 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:54.800 we won't talk about which stations do it in which 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:56.990 stations don't. Truth is powerful. 0:21:57.290 --> 0:21:58.430 The truth is powerful. 0:21:58.820 --> 0:22:01.040 Speaking about the lies, let's talk about some of the 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.649 things that are going on right now, like the fundraising. 0:22:03.650 --> 0:22:06.350 I know, Michael, you've heard about how the Republicans have 0:22:06.350 --> 0:22:08.240 had to return something like 120 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:09.650 million dollars after 0:22:09.650 --> 0:22:13.190 tricking their own base with a hidden opt out that 0:22:13.190 --> 0:22:17.090 made their contributions auto repeat monthly. It's like thank you 0:22:17.090 --> 0:22:21.020 for your support. And, you know, I'm not going to 0:22:21.020 --> 0:22:22.390 say what it really is. 0:22:22.830 --> 0:22:26.120 It's stupid. The grift is amazing. 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:27.350 Yeah. And that's what 0:22:27.350 --> 0:22:30.530 the party is becoming. This goes back to the 2000 election. 0:22:30.530 --> 0:22:31.070 But go ahead. 0:22:31.460 --> 0:22:34.939 It's just I don't understand how this group of people 0:22:34.940 --> 0:22:38.390 can be so forgiving. You know, a tablespoon of bleach 0:22:38.390 --> 0:22:42.020 will keep covid away. It's like there is no end 0:22:42.020 --> 0:22:45.800 to their tolerance for how much they can get screwed 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:47.900 by the party that they're voting into power. 0:22:48.260 --> 0:22:50.900 They don't see it that way. You do. You're not 0:22:50.900 --> 0:22:53.629 looking at this through their lens. You have your belief 0:22:53.630 --> 0:22:57.439 system in the way you've approached this. You've not walked 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.170 in their shoes. You've not spent time in a conversation 0:23:00.170 --> 0:23:03.800 with them. When I have and this is what triggered 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:07.730 for me the moment. And I knew at this point 0:23:07.730 --> 0:23:07.940 in 0:23:07.940 --> 0:23:09.409 twenty sixteen, 0:23:09.410 --> 0:23:12.800 early twenty sixteen that Donald Trump was going to win 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:17.300 the election. I'm watching a focus group and this young 0:23:17.300 --> 0:23:22.220 mother of two divorced from New Hampshire, I believe she 0:23:22.220 --> 0:23:27.920 was when asked what she liked about Donald Trump, she said, well, 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.550 he's just like me. And I sat there and I went, Oh, 0:23:31.550 --> 0:23:35.090 I need to peel that onion back. Yeah, I need 0:23:35.090 --> 0:23:38.679 to understand that because you need to tell me. This woman, 0:23:38.950 --> 0:23:43.689 this blue collar woman raising two kids on her own, 0:23:44.020 --> 0:23:46.870 looks at someone like Donald Trump and says he's just 0:23:46.869 --> 0:23:49.630 like me, is not like, oh, I just like him 0:23:49.630 --> 0:23:50.920 or he makes me 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:56.260 feel good. She said he's just like me. And I'm like, OK, 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:00.490 there's something going on out here. So, Bill, you've got 0:24:00.490 --> 0:24:04.810 to you've got to understand how people look at this 0:24:05.230 --> 0:24:07.780 and why they look at this and why they still 0:24:07.780 --> 0:24:10.450 look at Trump the way they do, why all those 0:24:10.450 --> 0:24:14.830 people were willing to go and commit insurrection in his 0:24:14.830 --> 0:24:18.660 name and then come out of the other again. Oh, no, no. 0:24:18.690 --> 0:24:21.460 Most of the people there, they were killed. They were kuhnen. 0:24:21.460 --> 0:24:26.080 They were antifa. Oh, you mean your buddy who drove 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.560 across the country with you in your pickup truck, those 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:31.870 antifa you drove with an empty fat guy all that 0:24:31.869 --> 0:24:35.170 way from from Mississippi or from Missouri or North Dakota. 0:24:35.650 --> 0:24:39.580 And but they're willing to rewrite the narrative to protect 0:24:39.580 --> 0:24:42.550 what they perceive as the important interest they have at 0:24:42.550 --> 0:24:45.639 the moment. And that's their investment in everything that Donald 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:46.300 Trump has said. 0:24:49.910 --> 0:24:53.720 On medicine, we're still practicing join Dr. Stephen Tayback and 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:57.290 Bill Kurtis for real conversations with the medical professionals who 0:24:57.290 --> 0:24:59.420 have their finger on the pulse of health care in 0:24:59.420 --> 0:25:03.650 the modern world available on all your favorite podcasting platforms 0:25:03.980 --> 0:25:05.180 produced by Kerkow media. 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:11.900 Welcome back, Michael, you came out in 2020 in support 0:25:11.900 --> 0:25:14.810 of Biden and Harris. How are they doing in their 0:25:14.810 --> 0:25:15.950 administration so far? 0:25:16.460 --> 0:25:20.600 I think they're doing amazingly well. And to be honest, 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:24.200 I disagree with the president's decision on XL pipeline. I 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.659 thought that was a mistake because of the impact they 0:25:26.660 --> 0:25:31.010 would have on on the markets and jobs especially. But 0:25:31.010 --> 0:25:33.430 that's OK. That's a policy disagreement. I knew that I 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.230 even told the president during this campaign that I would 0:25:36.230 --> 0:25:38.210 disagree with him on these things and I would be 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:42.820 vocal about that when necessary. And he was fine with that. 0:25:42.830 --> 0:25:45.350 And so I think when I step back and I 0:25:45.350 --> 0:25:48.890 look at what he's done and the way he's doing it, 0:25:48.890 --> 0:25:52.550 I have to give him the same approval and applause 0:25:52.550 --> 0:25:55.730 that the American people are giving. He has stepped into 0:25:55.730 --> 0:25:59.690 the breach, turned around the narrative on COGAT, turned around 0:25:59.690 --> 0:26:03.470 the narrative on the economy, turned around the narrative on. Now, 0:26:03.470 --> 0:26:07.310 as we move into the discussion on infrastructure, on job creation, 0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:11.169 winning the support of the American people by being transparent, 0:26:11.190 --> 0:26:15.440 I think very much to to Jane's earlier points about honesty, 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:20.750 being honest, being vulnerable and willing to say, yeah, you know, 0:26:20.750 --> 0:26:23.149 we were caught flat footed at the border. While I 0:26:23.150 --> 0:26:25.730 appreciate that honesty. The next thing is now you've got 0:26:25.730 --> 0:26:27.740 to step up the game and come up with a 0:26:27.740 --> 0:26:32.130 policy to address the crisis that is brewing there. Mm hmm. 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.240 But I think the American people, at least at this 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:38.720 point in the remaining days left leading up to his 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:42.440 first 100 days, are willing to give him the runway 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:45.830 to do that. And I think that's a particularly after 0:26:45.859 --> 0:26:47.810 what we've gone through, Bill, over 0:26:47.810 --> 0:26:49.370 the last four years, 0:26:49.369 --> 0:26:51.980 five years. I think that's a good thing. I think 0:26:51.980 --> 0:26:55.220 it's a healthy thing for both his administration and the country. 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.139 So let's talk about a couple of these policies. And 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.280 I'd like to to start with the whole H.R. one 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:03.610 discussion in Washington. 0:27:03.619 --> 0:27:04.030 Right. 0:27:04.130 --> 0:27:09.320 It does appear that the Republicans philosophy is do whatever 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:14.930 you can to win voters, suppress fine gerrymander, change the 0:27:14.930 --> 0:27:17.449 look and feel of the local voters so that you 0:27:17.450 --> 0:27:22.520 can win. Fine. Lie fine. The Biden administration is butting 0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:27.050 up against that philosophy. So let's first talk about in 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.530 this Congress, especially with the Senate, in the condition that 0:27:30.530 --> 0:27:33.890 it's in with the filibuster still alive, how do you 0:27:33.890 --> 0:27:37.129 navigate from here to, you know, maybe getting H.R. 0:27:37.130 --> 0:27:38.659 one passed, making sure 0:27:38.660 --> 0:27:41.090 that the voter has a say as opposed to they 0:27:41.090 --> 0:27:43.100 have no way to vote under the circumstances? 0:27:43.340 --> 0:27:46.490 Yeah. So H.R. one is more than just voting no. 0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:49.280 And that's the problem with H.R. one. If I were 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:52.610 the leadership, what I would do at this point is 0:27:52.609 --> 0:27:56.210 I would pull the voting provisions out as a standalone 0:27:56.750 --> 0:28:00.200 and put that package before the Congress. Now, you put 0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.890 the Republicans in a spot because it's easy for me 0:28:03.890 --> 0:28:06.990 to go back and criticize H.R. one by saying it 0:28:07.580 --> 0:28:10.790 does all these other things that we can't afford and 0:28:10.970 --> 0:28:14.600 it has nothing to do with voting. You know, the 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:15.889 environmental provisions 0:28:15.890 --> 0:28:17.239 in there, all the 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:19.720 sort of Christmas tree stuff that, you know, we tend 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:23.510 to do as as a Democratic member of the House said, yeah, 0:28:23.510 --> 0:28:27.800 the problem with anything that's that's labeled H.R. one is 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.429 that it just becomes a stalking horse for people to 0:28:31.430 --> 0:28:34.250 attack and because it's loaded up with everything. 0:28:34.580 --> 0:28:37.340 What about gerrymandering and campaign finance? 0:28:37.580 --> 0:28:39.920 How do you think the Democrats control the House of Representatives? 0:28:40.110 --> 0:28:42.770 That's been a part of the national platform for a 0:28:42.770 --> 0:28:43.040 long 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:43.520 time, 0:28:43.730 --> 0:28:45.950 but at least the Democrats are willing to at least 0:28:45.950 --> 0:28:48.100 reform it now. Yeah, and that's fine. 0:28:48.290 --> 0:28:49.950 Then put it in a separate bill. 0:28:50.180 --> 0:28:54.270 You think you could get it passed? Probably not. Why? 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.710 Well, the same reason you can't get responsible gun legislation passed. 0:28:57.890 --> 0:28:59.600 Where is the will for the will 0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:02.570 with the voters there? But the will with the politicians 0:29:02.570 --> 0:29:05.030 that are supported by the NRA is not. And who 0:29:05.030 --> 0:29:05.600 do the voters 0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:07.070 vote for? You think that 0:29:07.070 --> 0:29:11.600 the politicians right now on gun rules are reflecting the voters? 0:29:12.140 --> 0:29:12.800 Let me ask you this 0:29:12.800 --> 0:29:14.360 one with Sandy Hook. When did when do 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:17.000 we watch twenty six little babies get shot up in 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.610 their classrooms? What year was that and how many elections 0:29:19.610 --> 0:29:22.010 have we had since then? And this is a 90 0:29:22.010 --> 0:29:23.780 percent issue with the American people. 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:26.090 It becomes a chicken and egg because to the extent 0:29:26.090 --> 0:29:27.620 you have gerrymandered districts. 0:29:27.620 --> 0:29:29.090 No, it doesn't. It does. 0:29:29.330 --> 0:29:30.440 So what's the answer to that? 0:29:30.440 --> 0:29:31.580 Might you vote 0:29:31.580 --> 0:29:32.360 them out 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:36.200 if it's harder with gerrymandered districts? And I'm not talking 0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:38.000 about let's not talk about the past, as you say. 0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:39.700 Let's talk about how do you fix it today? 0:29:40.190 --> 0:29:42.680 Actually, you know what, Jane? He's right. You have 0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:43.880 said elections 0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:46.940 have consequences. This is one of the consequences. 0:29:47.180 --> 0:29:48.440 Yes, I understand that. 0:29:48.470 --> 0:29:52.040 Whether the gerrymandered or not. Ninety seven percent of the 0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:57.140 members of Congress get re-elected, that's Democrats and Republicans. So 0:29:57.140 --> 0:29:59.990 at the end of the day, if these issues are 0:29:59.990 --> 0:30:03.650 that important to us as citizens, as voters, why do 0:30:03.650 --> 0:30:07.040 we keep electing individuals who don't support us on those? 0:30:07.050 --> 0:30:11.820 The issues we keep reelecting them, and irrespective you're now 0:30:11.820 --> 0:30:16.709 into the second gerrymandering, the second redistricting period, we're in 0:30:16.710 --> 0:30:19.800 twenty twenty that occurred during the period twenty ten to 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:23.490 twenty twenty. So you can change that. I know that 0:30:23.490 --> 0:30:25.680 firsthand because I live in a state where I'm outnumbered 0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:28.650 two to one by Democrats. All right. But I fought 0:30:28.650 --> 0:30:31.320 to change the system in my state to give to 0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:34.290 give single member districts to black voters who are being 0:30:34.290 --> 0:30:38.220 represented by white politicians and to give Republicans a little 0:30:38.220 --> 0:30:42.060 bit more opportunity to compete. I live in a county 0:30:42.420 --> 0:30:45.780 of eight hundred thousand people in which they're only registered. 0:30:45.780 --> 0:30:49.740 Fifty some thousand Republicans. So don't talk to me about 0:30:49.740 --> 0:30:52.440 the impact of gerrymandering. I know that firsthand. 0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:55.080 And I'm not talking about gerrymandering from a party perspective. 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:57.120 I'm just talking about in general. There are better ways 0:30:57.120 --> 0:30:57.770 of doing it. 0:30:57.780 --> 0:31:01.230 But my point is the people support it as much 0:31:01.230 --> 0:31:04.320 as they complain about it, they still support it. And 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:07.230 so you can't tell me that just because a district 0:31:07.390 --> 0:31:10.320 is gerrymandered a certain way that you have to keep 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:14.210 voting for the same people who keep that system in place. 0:31:14.250 --> 0:31:16.590 Why not vote for the guy or gal who's running 0:31:16.590 --> 0:31:19.860 against it? Why not vote for the person who's coming 0:31:19.860 --> 0:31:21.390 out fresh out of the gate as opposed to the 0:31:21.390 --> 0:31:23.820 guy who's been a part of the problem for 30 years? 0:31:24.270 --> 0:31:25.260 Michael, I just want to ask you 0:31:25.260 --> 0:31:26.760 one more question. Yes, sir. 0:31:27.700 --> 0:31:31.479 Tell us something we don't know that can give us 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:36.120 hope that the Republican Party can get back to governance, 0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:41.020 get away from politics and actually care about the American 0:31:41.020 --> 0:31:43.330 people are processed in our lives. 0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:46.510 I can't tell you that because I don't know that. 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:48.940 And that's what I'm still trying to discover if that 0:31:48.940 --> 0:31:51.940 light is even there. I'm just being honest. I think 0:31:51.940 --> 0:31:56.320 everybody wants very quick, easy solutions to an intractable, difficult 0:31:56.320 --> 0:31:59.710 problem that has been in the making. As Jane first 0:31:59.710 --> 0:32:03.940 noted in our conversation going back to the 1960s. And 0:32:03.940 --> 0:32:06.760 I just don't think you can just unwrap 0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:07.720 that and 0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:12.400 undo the devastating impact from that in a short time. 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:15.430 It's going to take a leadership that has not emerged. 0:32:15.610 --> 0:32:19.090 I was heartened and hopeful with the likes of Liz 0:32:19.090 --> 0:32:22.480 Cheney doing what she did and Adam Kinzinger and others, 0:32:22.780 --> 0:32:25.330 you know, those 10 or so who who kind of 0:32:25.330 --> 0:32:27.400 stood their ground and who are now paying a political 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:29.140 price for it. But we need more. 0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:31.510 So, Michael, what's your place in this going forward 0:32:31.750 --> 0:32:34.510 to make as much annoying noise as I can? People 0:32:34.510 --> 0:32:37.030 ask me why I haven't left the Republican Party. I 0:32:37.030 --> 0:32:39.550 said because it pisses them off. The longer I stay in, 0:32:41.830 --> 0:32:44.530 that's where I am today. In six months, we may 0:32:44.530 --> 0:32:46.870 be having a very different conversation if I see that 0:32:46.870 --> 0:32:48.010 light my coming on. 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:49.540 How can people follow you? 0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:52.270 Well, you can follow me on Twitter at Michael Steele. 0:32:52.270 --> 0:32:56.050 Very easy. Check out my podcast, the Michael Steele podcast. 0:32:56.360 --> 0:32:58.990 You know, where we get your podcast there. I will be. 0:32:59.410 --> 0:33:01.330 And if you want to, you know, do a little 0:33:01.330 --> 0:33:04.270 deeper dive, you can go visit my website. Michael Steele 0:33:04.270 --> 0:33:05.290 Network dot com. 0:33:05.500 --> 0:33:07.630 That's it. Oh, this was great. 0:33:07.820 --> 0:33:11.560 Yeah, I really enjoyed the conversation. I love the push. 0:33:11.650 --> 0:33:14.680 The pull. It's good to engage. And I wish as 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.500 a country we did more of this with a sense 0:33:17.500 --> 0:33:20.350 of good nature and really with a sense of learning 0:33:20.350 --> 0:33:22.060 and hearing what the other person has said. And I 0:33:22.060 --> 0:33:22.420 thank you 0:33:22.420 --> 0:33:24.219 both for that. And really, we enjoyed it. 0:33:25.930 --> 0:33:28.120 Well, that was a powerful show, and I certainly hope 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.520 Michael comes back and joins us. And Jane, of course, 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:33.910 thank you for joining again. That was excellent. And to 0:33:33.910 --> 0:33:36.760 you listening, please don't forget the hit the follow button 0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:38.770 so you you don't have to hunt around for the 0:33:38.770 --> 0:33:40.900 next episode of Meet Me in the Middle. And thank 0:33:40.900 --> 0:33:43.930 you to our producer and editor, Joey Salvinia, music for 0:33:43.930 --> 0:33:45.550 Meet Me in the Middle of a composed and performed 0:33:45.550 --> 0:33:49.970 by Celeste Anorectic, executive producer for this episode is Stuart Halpern. 0:33:50.410 --> 0:33:53.140 These are complicated issues. This is why we need to 0:33:53.140 --> 0:33:56.260 have a discussion like this in the middle. See you 0:33:56.260 --> 0:33:57.060 next week, everybody. 0:34:02.510 --> 0:34:06.140 From Kerkow media media for your mind.