WEBVTT - 37 - Harry Bradbeer (Enola Holmes) 0:00:01.030 --> 0:00:02.140 From CurtCo Media ... 0:00:02.460 --> 0:00:02.981 There's no place like Hollywood. 0:00:02.981 --> 0:00:18.869 Welcome to another special episode of Hollywood Unscripted: Stuck at 0:00:18.869 --> 0:00:22.169 Home. I'm Jenny Curtis and today, I'm virtually sitting down 0:00:22.169 --> 0:00:25.480 with an amazing director and an even friendlier person, Harry 0:00:25.489 --> 0:00:28.460 Bradbeer. Harry is a BAFTA and Emmy- winning director and 0:00:28.460 --> 0:00:31.300 producer. He's directed incredible shows that we're going to touch 0:00:31.300 --> 0:00:34.710 on today, such as Fleabag, Killing Eve, and Ramy, as 0:00:34.710 --> 0:00:37.729 well as the delightful new film Enola Holmes, coming this 0:00:37.729 --> 0:00:40.670 week on Netflix. Harry, thank you so much for joining 0:00:40.670 --> 0:00:41.050 us. 0:00:41.169 --> 0:00:43.300 It's great to be here. It's exciting. I love your 0:00:43.300 --> 0:00:44.159 podcast. I love it. 0:00:44.629 --> 0:00:46.269 You're in London right now. Is that correct? 0:00:46.409 --> 0:00:47.250 I am, yeah. 0:00:47.659 --> 0:00:50.269 I'm recording in Los Angeles where it's a bit apocalyptic, 0:00:50.269 --> 0:00:52.710 because we have wild fires all over California, not to 0:00:52.710 --> 0:00:55.779 mention a pandemic. So it's definitely a week. 0:00:55.970 --> 0:00:58.390 It's definitely been a week for you. I feel awful 0:00:58.390 --> 0:01:01.719 for you. I mean, it's terrifying. It sort of changes 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.750 your whole attitude about our connections with each other. I think that's 0:01:04.750 --> 0:01:07.749 the way this whole pandemic has affected us. We've started 0:01:07.910 --> 0:01:12.080 to think differently about distance and intimacy, and these are kind of 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.240 my stock and trade in my work, so it interests 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:14.429 me a lot. 0:01:15.270 --> 0:01:17.040 I want to jump in and start at the beginning. 0:01:17.390 --> 0:01:19.649 So your parents were in medicine. Is that correct? 0:01:20.030 --> 0:01:22.419 Yeah. My dad wanted to be a surgeon and he ended 0:01:22.619 --> 0:01:25.520 up working with children. He was one of the people at the 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.770 forefront of deafness in children. He loved children, he was 0:01:28.770 --> 0:01:31.490 a lovely man. It was said that no children ever 0:01:31.500 --> 0:01:35.240 cried in his surgeries. He just had a very gentle nature. And 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:36.910 he met my mother when he was a medical student, 0:01:36.910 --> 0:01:39.780 and my mother was in medicine at that point. She 0:01:39.780 --> 0:01:40.289 dropped out of it after a while. 0:01:41.289 --> 0:01:43.729 So coming from that background, how did you find the 0:01:43.729 --> 0:01:45.869 arts and realize that you wanted to be a filmmaker? 0:01:46.429 --> 0:01:50.210 I think for me, I grew up in Devon and it's a very distant place. 0:01:50.470 --> 0:01:54.440 And, really, your connection with the exciting world is through 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.609 TV, and the occasional visits to the Odeon in Exeter. 0:01:58.130 --> 0:02:01.960 So I loved the cinema. In those days, the films used to 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:03.790 run back to back. So you would go in, and 0:02:03.790 --> 0:02:05.320 if you were late for the film, you'd watch the 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.299 end and then you'd watch the beginning, which I think scrambled my brain 0:02:09.299 --> 0:02:10.470 in a way, but it used to help me to 0:02:10.470 --> 0:02:13.070 understand how film narrative worked. I watched a lot of 0:02:13.070 --> 0:02:15.989 television, but really what I wanted to be was an actor. 0:02:16.210 --> 0:02:18.160 I was kind of obsessed with it as a child. 0:02:18.500 --> 0:02:22.549 And one odd kind of incident really got me going 0:02:22.549 --> 0:02:24.680 into the idea of going into television, which was at 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.410 Christmas, we used to go and visit my grandparents, and they never got 0:02:27.410 --> 0:02:29.690 on. They fought a lot and it was a terrible 0:02:29.690 --> 0:02:33.540 atmosphere. But there was one moment, after we had the meal, we'd 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.889 sit down and we'd watch the Morcambe & Wise show on 0:02:36.889 --> 0:02:40.010 the TV. And the family that had been arguing and 0:02:40.010 --> 0:02:43.349 fighting, all suddenly start to laugh, it was a comedy show, 0:02:43.730 --> 0:02:46.870 and everyone was together. And there was such a warm feeling of 0:02:46.870 --> 0:02:51.700 connection and how these entertainers changed the whole tenor and 0:02:51.700 --> 0:02:54.609 atmosphere in the family. We found something, we linked, you 0:02:54.609 --> 0:02:57.410 sort of joined together on. And on the way back, 0:02:57.410 --> 0:02:59.230 I think I was about 8, I said, " When I grow 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.220 I want to be in entertainment." I went to school, 0:03:02.220 --> 0:03:04.489 did tons of plays there. Went to university, tons of 0:03:04.489 --> 0:03:07.820 plays there. And then someone offered me the chance to direct 0:03:08.429 --> 0:03:11.070 a play in this little tiny theater in the round. Do you 0:03:11.070 --> 0:03:13.380 know three quarters in the round, where the audience are 0:03:13.380 --> 0:03:16.859 all about it? And there was something about the perspective 0:03:16.859 --> 0:03:20.730 I had on the performances, and the control and encouragement 0:03:20.730 --> 0:03:24.220 of actors into certain kinds of performances, that presented shapes 0:03:24.470 --> 0:03:27.100 and frames for the audience that were so close to 0:03:27.100 --> 0:03:30.190 them, that it took me to think maybe I should be 0:03:30.190 --> 0:03:33.559 making films. I wanted to get close. I didn't like 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.760 the proscenium experience of the theater, I didn't like being miles away. I couldn't 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.330 stand going out for an evening and just spending an 0:03:40.330 --> 0:03:42.320 hour and a half with people shouting at me. I 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:46.640 wanted to be there with the experience. So there was 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.240 a film society at my college, and I went down 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.289 there and I asked if I can make a movie. He said, " Well, 0:03:52.290 --> 0:03:54.990 we can give you, " I think it was 70 quid 0:03:55.260 --> 0:03:58.619 for 10 minutes of reversal film. Reversal film is like 0:03:58.619 --> 0:04:00.560 a negative, you just get one shot at it. You 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.580 expose it, and then you develop it, and then you 0:04:03.580 --> 0:04:06.780 cut with it. It gets cut into pieces, cut to 0:04:06.780 --> 0:04:09.500 shit, and it's scratchy and awful, but you do get 0:04:09.500 --> 0:04:13.420 your film. And I made that. And it was actually 0:04:13.530 --> 0:04:17.330 a short film about a schizophrenic man who became a 0:04:17.330 --> 0:04:21.750 rather famous murderer in London in the 1940s and 50s, called 0:04:21.870 --> 0:04:26.679 John Reginald Halliday Christie. And the way I found a 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.010 way to tell the story was to have one actor play 0:04:29.010 --> 0:04:31.969 all the parts and make the actor to then address the camera. 0:04:32.450 --> 0:04:34.870 So that idea of breaking the fourth wall was right at 0:04:34.930 --> 0:04:38.469 the beginning of all of my interests. So I made 0:04:38.469 --> 0:04:41.300 that little film and thought, "Well, I want to be a filmmaker 0:04:41.300 --> 0:04:44.270 now. So what do I do?" And I heard about this 0:04:44.620 --> 0:04:48.330 exchange scholarship to the University of Michigan and no one else 0:04:48.330 --> 0:04:50.320 knew where the Foreign Studies office was, so I got 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.580 it. And I picked shop at the University of Michigan 0:04:52.580 --> 0:04:56.180 for a year and made some short films and some 0:04:56.180 --> 0:04:59.169 TV, and it was my first impact of American culture of 0:04:59.169 --> 0:05:04.070 making art, which was so practical and gloriously immediate. I 0:05:04.070 --> 0:05:06.339 had friends who were in film schools or doing Media 0:05:06.380 --> 0:05:09.830 Studies, they spent the first term studying Hitchcock, which is a 0:05:10.169 --> 0:05:14.270 wonderful thing to do, but studying theory and gender specifics 0:05:14.270 --> 0:05:17.960 in 60s French New Wave. And they just said, " All 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.809 right, we're making a commercial this week." I said, " I've 0:05:19.810 --> 0:05:24.880 only just arrived!" And it was so inspiring. God bless 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.070 them, they taught me a lot about how to make 0:05:27.070 --> 0:05:29.450 a film, how to put it together. I think so much 0:05:29.450 --> 0:05:34.239 of filmmaking is organizing of your mind, in conjunction with 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.200 a clear idea of what you want. And I learned 0:05:37.380 --> 0:05:40.870 early on that you don't need to do something complicated 0:05:40.870 --> 0:05:43.010 but you need to do something complex, which starts with a 0:05:43.010 --> 0:05:46.210 simple idea. And the things we made weren't tremendously good, 0:05:46.609 --> 0:05:49.330 but I learned a lot from it and I had 0:05:49.330 --> 0:05:52.289 a wonderful time. So then I came back and looked 0:05:52.289 --> 0:05:55.839 for a job, and I started making tea in production companies 0:05:56.510 --> 0:05:59.979 and post- production houses. I mean, I was just asking 0:05:59.979 --> 0:06:02.260 them if I could do anything. And I was terrible 0:06:02.260 --> 0:06:04.799 at it. I mean, I was bad at getting out 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.150 of bed. I didn't want to be a producer, I wanted 0:06:07.419 --> 0:06:08.800 to be a director, but it was the only way 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.979 to start. And I soon ran into the ground and 0:06:12.979 --> 0:06:17.190 got fired. I was not the best production assistant, I 0:06:17.349 --> 0:06:24.349 think. I wrote to this one connection, and this was 0:06:24.349 --> 0:06:27.460 John Schlesinger, the director who directed Midnight Cowboy, one of 0:06:27.460 --> 0:06:30.880 the films that I'd watched when I was a boy and 0:06:30.990 --> 0:06:33.950 transported me. And the only reason why I wrote to him was, it was a film 0:06:33.950 --> 0:06:39.609 that changed my attitude to film and performance. Because if 0:06:39.609 --> 0:06:41.700 you've watched that movie, you start off with a guy 0:06:41.700 --> 0:06:45.659 with a fairly simple idea. He's arrogant and confident, he 0:06:45.659 --> 0:06:48.479 wants to go to New York to be an escort. And he 0:06:48.479 --> 0:06:52.059 doesn't get any of these things, his life collapses. And 0:06:52.060 --> 0:06:54.669 he ends up on a bus with a dead man 0:06:54.930 --> 0:06:56.810 in his arms, and it's the best thing that could 0:06:56.810 --> 0:06:59.120 have happened to him. I was watching this film, everyone 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.900 else had gone to bed, and I realized that films 0:07:01.900 --> 0:07:03.549 were about not what you wanted, but what you needed. 0:07:04.609 --> 0:07:10.110 A man seeking acknowledgement, validation, all these very Fleabag- y things, 0:07:10.530 --> 0:07:14.330 acceptance. He wanted to make money but, in the end, he found 0:07:14.330 --> 0:07:19.940 love. I have held that idea in my heart ever 0:07:19.980 --> 0:07:24.739 since, and in my work. So that's why I wrote 0:07:24.739 --> 0:07:32.660 to John. My connection with him was that his grandmother 0:07:32.660 --> 0:07:35.980 came over from Germany with my grandmother, my Jewish side, 0:07:35.980 --> 0:07:43.180 my mother's side. My mother hadn't seen him since they 0:07:43.180 --> 0:07:46.520 were little children, playing together in the garden. And so she wrote 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.270 him a letter, I wrote him a letter, and he replied and he 0:07:49.270 --> 0:07:53.309 said, "Come and see me." So on a snowy day in 0:07:53.310 --> 0:07:56.080 January, I went up to see John, in this great 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.749 house in Kensington, a big house. And he was an 0:07:58.750 --> 0:08:02.760 extraordinarily little man, and lovely, and warm, and asked me 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.190 what I was doing and what I wanted to do. I said I was a director, " 0:08:05.190 --> 0:08:07.600 And I'm a production assistant and I'm making tea and 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.980 I'm not doing a very good job of it." And 0:08:09.980 --> 0:08:12.059 he had this quite imperial voice and he said, " Well, 0:08:12.060 --> 0:08:14.929 my dear boy, you must use your brain. If you 0:08:14.929 --> 0:08:17.250 want to write, you must write a script." And I said, "Yeah, but I need to live." And he said, " 0:08:19.090 --> 0:08:21.450 Well, I'll give you some pennies if you read these 0:08:21.450 --> 0:08:23.310 scripts." So he wrote me a couple of scripts to read 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.420 and I became his script reader and his researcher. So 0:08:26.530 --> 0:08:30.070 I worked for him, reading scripts, and I even researched an 0:08:30.070 --> 0:08:32.709 opera for him. He also introduced me to David Puttnam 0:08:32.709 --> 0:08:34.959 and Norma Heyman, and a number of other folks who 0:08:34.959 --> 0:08:37.550 gave me similar work. So that kept me going for 0:08:37.550 --> 0:08:40.510 a few years, while I wrote a script, which was 0:08:40.510 --> 0:08:42.470 based on a short story I had written on a 0:08:42.470 --> 0:08:45.270 visit to a friend in the country. And that turned 0:08:45.270 --> 0:08:48.009 into a little short film called A Night with a Woman, a 0:08:48.010 --> 0:08:50.439 Day with Charlie, that was, like all of the things 0:08:50.439 --> 0:08:53.099 that interest me, it was a love story, but about two men 0:08:53.290 --> 0:08:56.829 who had this unspoken love between each other. And it 0:08:56.829 --> 0:08:58.589 was about a guy Harold, that was sort of me, 0:08:58.590 --> 0:09:03.579 I suppose, who was abandoned in London and went to 0:09:03.579 --> 0:09:05.830 see his old friend, who was played by Rufus Sewell, 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.240 in the middle of Wales. And it had a kind 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.150 of Hitchcockian feel to it, it was very emotional. It was 0:09:13.150 --> 0:09:15.910 about two lonely people finding each other, which again is 0:09:15.910 --> 0:09:17.770 something that seems to come through my work all the 0:09:17.770 --> 0:09:21.650 time. And they end up dancing together. It's a funny 0:09:21.650 --> 0:09:24.309 little film and Channel 4 saw it, back in the 0:09:24.309 --> 0:09:26.609 UK, and they loved it and they bought it. And 0:09:26.610 --> 0:09:29.880 that paid the bills for the film, and so I just made my money 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.829 back, and they put it out. And that way, I 0:09:32.829 --> 0:09:34.790 got an agent and then I started working in TV. 0:09:35.459 --> 0:09:37.939 Before we move forward, I want to go back to the letter you wrote 0:09:37.939 --> 0:09:40.459 to John Schlesinger. Do you remember what you said, other 0:09:40.459 --> 0:09:41.560 than the connection between your mothers? 0:09:41.560 --> 0:09:46.150 I think I spoke to him about how much his movies 0:09:46.150 --> 0:09:49.050 had meant to me. And I didn't really know how 0:09:49.050 --> 0:09:50.980 to approach it, it was so difficult because I didn't 0:09:50.980 --> 0:09:54.140 know who he was. I did what you were supposed to do, which 0:09:54.140 --> 0:09:56.630 was to say, " How do you do? Could you possibly spare me an hour of 0:09:57.420 --> 0:10:00.160 your time? I've always heard about you since I was little boy, and 0:10:00.260 --> 0:10:03.709 I love Midnight Cowboy and it's made a lasting impression 0:10:03.709 --> 0:10:06.629 on me for many, many years." The fun thing about 0:10:06.630 --> 0:10:10.099 John, I remember someone was asking me about him, they said, " Do 0:10:10.100 --> 0:10:13.099 you have an anecdote about John?" It was a journalist, 0:10:13.100 --> 0:10:16.960 yesterday. I said, " I'm afraid they're all filthy, all rude," because he was 0:10:17.350 --> 0:10:21.389 very funny and very naughty. But he did have this wonderful way 0:10:21.470 --> 0:10:24.449 of introducing me to people. When he wasn't in LA, 0:10:24.449 --> 0:10:27.219 he would come into London and we'd go to the theater. And then 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.340 afterwards, we would often go to the IV, which was, in those days, the exclusive restaurant that you 0:10:31.350 --> 0:10:33.609 could only get into if you were known to them. 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.050 And there was a table by the door, where Noël 0:10:36.050 --> 0:10:39.790 Coward used to sit, which John and other notables would 0:10:39.790 --> 0:10:42.569 take. And they took it because then people, as they 0:10:42.569 --> 0:10:44.969 came in and out, would say hello. So you were kind 0:10:44.970 --> 0:10:47.920 of on a production line, the grandest production line of 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.720 your life. Like the Queen, with people marching past and 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.949 saying hello. And I'll be sitting there, tucking into whatever 0:10:53.949 --> 0:10:55.699 I could eat, because I was so hungry, because I 0:10:55.699 --> 0:11:00.849 had so little money, and John would introduce me there. He would say, " 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.559 You know Harry Bradbeer," as though you can't possibly be 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.719 so ignorant to be unaware of this rising star. And 0:11:07.719 --> 0:11:11.400 so they would always say, " Oh yes, of course. Yes, absolutely." He managed 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.939 to convince everybody that I was terribly important. It was 0:11:13.939 --> 0:11:17.189 very sweet. So yeah, that's John. And we worked together 0:11:17.189 --> 0:11:21.429 for about four years and then, eventually, I took wings. 0:11:21.429 --> 0:11:23.219 So he sort of helped me in the nest and 0:11:23.219 --> 0:11:24.769 he fed me like a little baby bird. 0:11:24.770 --> 0:11:27.489 I want to fast forward, just because there's so much 0:11:27.490 --> 0:11:28.440 I want to talk to you about. 0:11:28.441 --> 0:11:28.881 Yeah. 0:11:29.429 --> 0:11:32.010 How did you get involved with Fleabag? And how did 0:11:32.010 --> 0:11:33.239 you meet Phoebe Waller- Bridge? 0:11:33.500 --> 0:11:36.040 There was a pilot and I'd been shown it. And 0:11:37.719 --> 0:11:40.189 Phoebe and the producer were looking for a director to 0:11:40.189 --> 0:11:44.619 take it on and develop it into the series. I saw the pilot 0:11:44.620 --> 0:11:48.179 and I saw her face, and there was a kind 0:11:48.179 --> 0:11:52.270 of recognition. There was something in her that I adored, 0:11:52.270 --> 0:11:56.459 as well as a mischief. There was a fierce intelligence and 0:11:56.459 --> 0:11:59.910 a fury in her performance. There was an energy that 0:11:59.910 --> 0:12:03.199 I hadn't seen in a while. So I said, " Well, 0:12:03.199 --> 0:12:05.719 I'll meet you." And I didn't know this, but I 0:12:05.719 --> 0:12:08.410 was one of about 35 directors, I think, they saw 0:12:08.410 --> 0:12:12.469 because they couldn't quite get someone that quite met with 0:12:12.469 --> 0:12:15.650 Phoebe's mind. Anyway, I walked in and she said, "Well, what 0:12:15.650 --> 0:12:17.880 did you think of Fleabag?" And I said, " Well, I am 0:12:17.900 --> 0:12:22.569 Fleabag," By which I meant that this character is so 0:12:22.569 --> 0:12:25.480 relatable to me because she says what's in her mind. 0:12:25.689 --> 0:12:30.200 I just have logorrhea, I'm kind of a victim of 0:12:30.550 --> 0:12:32.339 an inability to be a very good liar. I tend 0:12:32.339 --> 0:12:34.760 to tell you the truth. And it's also that the truth is much 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.910 easier to remember as well, I find. So there is that 0:12:37.910 --> 0:12:41.969 honest truthfulness to her which I related to. And I 0:12:41.969 --> 0:12:45.189 asked her about what she planned for it. I said, " 0:12:45.189 --> 0:12:48.089 What happens at the end?" And she said, " Well, the truth is that 0:12:48.439 --> 0:12:51.410 her friend Boo, it turns out that she slept with this guy, that 0:12:51.410 --> 0:12:54.859 caused her suicide. So in effect, she killed her." And 0:12:54.860 --> 0:12:58.829 I said, " My god, that's Greek. That's rich, that's dark." 0:12:59.189 --> 0:13:03.439 I said, " There's a wonderful, dark sadness to this comedy." And what I didn't 0:13:03.770 --> 0:13:06.000 say before was that I'd never ever met for a comedy before, 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.850 I'd just done drama, that my agent had said, " Why do you want to 0:13:11.510 --> 0:13:13.280 do a comedy?" And I said, "Well, I don't really see this as a comedy. I see it 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.839 as something else. Because it's funny, all of that works, it's stumbling 0:13:16.839 --> 0:13:19.370 on the apt with its tail wagging. I love it. 0:13:19.370 --> 0:13:22.300 But we must go like an (exudate) ." I said, " 0:13:22.300 --> 0:13:26.280 I will go like an exudate for every ounce of vulnerability and pain 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.819 in your character, because this story could be of epic 0:13:29.819 --> 0:13:34.979 proportions." There is something rich, universal, and very deeply meaningful, 0:13:35.050 --> 0:13:37.839 I felt, just from the little that I had seen. 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:42.010 But there was no series written. So what I ended up 0:13:42.010 --> 0:13:44.839 being was a kind of partner in the telling of that 0:13:44.839 --> 0:13:48.209 story, and the structuring of the series. And it really worked 0:13:48.209 --> 0:13:50.309 with a lot of me asking her questions about her 0:13:50.309 --> 0:13:54.140 experience. And she had such a clear understanding of that character. And I had a very clear understanding 0:13:57.319 --> 0:14:01.050 of how the story could be shaped. And so we 0:14:01.050 --> 0:14:03.870 worked beautifully together. It was an amazing meeting of minds. 0:14:15.349 --> 0:14:18.659 A Moment of Your Time, a new podcast from CurtCo 0:14:18.660 --> 0:14:19.140 Media. 0:14:19.830 --> 0:14:21.801 Currently 21 years old, and today I'm going to read a poem. 0:14:21.801 --> 0:14:26.009 I felt like magic extended from her fingertips down to the base of my spine. 0:14:26.210 --> 0:14:27.830 You have to care of yourself because the world needs 0:14:27.830 --> 0:14:28.541 you and your voice. 0:14:28.541 --> 0:14:30.660 Trust me, every do- gooder that asked about me was ready 0:14:30.660 --> 0:14:31.640 to spit on my dreams. 0:14:31.700 --> 0:14:32.869 Her fingers were facing me. 0:14:33.210 --> 0:14:35.580 It can feel like your purpose and your worth is 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:36.550 really being questioned. 0:14:36.550 --> 0:14:38.470 Ain't going to stop me from playing the piano. 0:14:38.470 --> 0:14:41.249 She buys walkie- talkies, wonders to whom she should give 0:14:41.250 --> 0:14:42.002 the second (crosstalk) . 0:14:41.930 --> 0:14:44.710 Pets don't love humans. We never did, we never will. 0:14:44.710 --> 0:14:45.002 We just find ones that are more (crosstalk) . 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.910 The beauty of rock climbing is that you can only 0:14:47.910 --> 0:14:49.002 focus on what's right in front of (crosstalk) . 0:14:49.002 --> 0:14:52.350 And life. And so, our American life begins. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.670 We may need to stay apart but let's create together. 0:14:57.070 --> 0:15:01.681 Available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece @ curtco. com/ amomentofyourtime. 0:15:01.681 --> 0:15:02.149 [ singing]. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.900 I love that in your Emmy acceptance speech, you thanked Phoebe 0:15:14.900 --> 0:15:17.410 for coming into your life like a glorious grenade. 0:15:17.650 --> 0:15:19.720 A glorious grenade, she was. 0:15:19.810 --> 0:15:21.869 I would love to hear more about your collaboration with 0:15:21.870 --> 0:15:22.130 her. 0:15:22.690 --> 0:15:27.330 Well, we are ruthless with each other. She cares completely 0:15:27.330 --> 0:15:31.080 about comedy, I care completely about pain, and the two 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.989 things are necessary in life. It's like life is tragedy 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.160 and humor together. When we first got together for that 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.860 first cup of tea, I asked her lots of questions 0:15:39.860 --> 0:15:43.859 about what the experience was for Fleabag. I think the 0:15:44.060 --> 0:15:46.359 reason why it works is that I asked her a lot of 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.040 questions. Directors often will tell people what to do. I'm 0:15:50.310 --> 0:15:53.930 interested in what an actor feels about a character, because 0:15:53.930 --> 0:15:56.520 an actor is their first storyteller. And in this case, the 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:01.180 storyteller was also the writer. So I tended to sort 0:16:01.180 --> 0:16:05.030 of use her like a sponge, I sucked all of her story 0:16:05.030 --> 0:16:07.700 out of her and then I interrogated everything for truth. 0:16:08.180 --> 0:16:10.690 She calls me her truth hound. I will listen to 0:16:10.690 --> 0:16:14.470 any pitch, but I will interrogate it ruthlessly. And that's 0:16:14.470 --> 0:16:17.540 why I say we have a really helpful fighting relationship. 0:16:17.850 --> 0:16:21.369 It's like a sister- brother relationship. I call her my sister, she 0:16:21.370 --> 0:16:24.310 calls me her sister. That's one of our jokes. We 0:16:24.310 --> 0:16:27.410 are sisters. Because she thinks that there's a woman inside me, 0:16:28.150 --> 0:16:30.739 which probably there is. I mean, Jung would say there 0:16:30.750 --> 0:16:35.410 was. She's just like another bit of me. My mother was 0:16:35.410 --> 0:16:38.540 going to have another ... a little sister, and she couldn't, 0:16:39.010 --> 0:16:41.859 and I've always wanted one. And, somehow, Phoebe became that 0:16:41.859 --> 0:16:45.090 sister. But more practically about how it works, she would 0:16:45.090 --> 0:16:49.270 write a draft and I will encourage, criticize, build, and 0:16:49.270 --> 0:16:52.630 shape. Sometimes we role- play. In the second series, we 0:16:52.630 --> 0:16:54.950 had Jenny Robins with us, we met on Killing Eve. 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.609 She's an amazing story producer. So it's really the three 0:16:58.609 --> 0:17:01.879 of us all working together. I stand by the wall, 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.479 and as ideas come up for scenes, I put them 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.050 on Post- its and I stick them up, and I 0:17:07.060 --> 0:17:09.630 move them around and I try to find a shape. 0:17:10.290 --> 0:17:13.159 So, in the making of the second series, I remember 0:17:13.159 --> 0:17:16.369 how the midpoint became really important to me. The point 0:17:16.369 --> 0:17:19.990 when the priest recognizes that she is talking to someone 0:17:19.990 --> 0:17:23.650 else. That always had to be ... It's like a tent pole 0:17:23.690 --> 0:17:26.249 in a movie. And this was a movie in six parts, 0:17:26.250 --> 0:17:30.040 remember. That tent pole of discovery was there in the 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.790 middle. So, first thing that and then allowing the story 0:17:33.790 --> 0:17:37.619 to build around it. Phoebe had many extraordinary ideas, some 0:17:37.619 --> 0:17:40.750 which just never made it in there. We tried so 0:17:40.750 --> 0:17:44.810 hard to bring in the Tube Rodent. We love Jamie, 0:17:44.930 --> 0:17:46.660 but we couldn't find a way to put him in. 0:17:48.399 --> 0:17:48.879 In many ways, it's like just being in a writers room, except the director and the writer are working together, rather than a group of writers. 0:17:53.300 --> 0:17:55.790 So since the beginning, you've liked breaking the fourth wall, 0:17:55.790 --> 0:17:56.409 as you said. 0:17:56.409 --> 0:17:56.790 Yeah. 0:17:56.879 --> 0:18:00.119 And this tool develops from season one to season two, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.580 to where the priest acknowledges us. It felt like us, 0:18:03.580 --> 0:18:06.629 as the audience, was more a part of the story than being told 0:18:06.629 --> 0:18:07.310 the story. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.499 Do you mean the priests knows that she's talking to 0:18:10.500 --> 0:18:11.630 us? That notion? 0:18:11.980 --> 0:18:12.250 Yeah. 0:18:12.340 --> 0:18:14.960 That was Phoebe's idea. That was the moment, I think 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.060 for her, when she thought that she could do a second 0:18:17.470 --> 0:18:21.300 series, because the first series had completed in a kind 0:18:21.300 --> 0:18:24.429 of catharsis. She was someone who wasn't owning up to 0:18:24.430 --> 0:18:27.310 the terrible things she'd done. She owns up to it, it brings about a 0:18:27.310 --> 0:18:30.239 catharsis and a crisis for her, but it ends in 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:35.210 friendship with the bank manager. So that felt like a beginning, and a middle, and an end. And we went 0:18:35.210 --> 0:18:38.019 off to LA for the TCAs, and I remember sitting in this 0:18:38.310 --> 0:18:41.510 Brazilian restaurant, talking about the possibility of a second series and 0:18:41.770 --> 0:18:44.609 there was nothing that could get either of us excited. And then, 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.070 we went off into Killing Eve together and in the 0:18:49.070 --> 0:18:52.679 process of that, I think it was all ticking along in her head and, eventually, she 0:18:52.679 --> 0:18:56.879 came up with this idea of a priest. I think she felt there could be a love story 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.810 and who harder to pick as a companion than a 0:19:00.810 --> 0:19:04.570 priest? And the moment religion entered the story, that higher 0:19:04.570 --> 0:19:07.869 powers entered the story, special powers, and there was something 0:19:07.869 --> 0:19:10.850 about a priest who spends his life talking to god, 0:19:11.020 --> 0:19:15.129 recognizing someone who also talks to someone secretly, and who 0:19:15.129 --> 0:19:18.909 is, in some ways, metaphysical (inaudible) . So when that 0:19:18.909 --> 0:19:22.169 came to her, that gave her the hope. And that was the thing that she 0:19:22.169 --> 0:19:25.889 pitched to me when we met for dinner, way before we 0:19:25.889 --> 0:19:28.929 started prep on Fleabag. She just pitched me this idea 0:19:28.929 --> 0:19:32.320 that it was going to happen right at the end of the first episode, that she met this priest, 0:19:32.619 --> 0:19:35.540 who at that point had Tourette Syndrome, actually, which I 0:19:35.570 --> 0:19:39.419 think was one of the things that I shot in the head. She met him in 0:19:39.419 --> 0:19:41.659 his service and he started to eff and blind, and 0:19:41.659 --> 0:19:43.409 then she gets to talking to him. It wasn't quite 0:19:43.409 --> 0:19:45.369 clear how she was going to get around to talk to him, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.890 but she knew that relationship was going to come together. That 0:19:48.129 --> 0:19:50.720 existed. She knew that it began with a bloody nose 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.410 in the restaurant and she knew about the priest recognizing 0:19:53.460 --> 0:19:55.909 her, and chatting away, and she turns to us and the 0:19:55.909 --> 0:19:59.320 priest says, " Where did you just go?" And when she said 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.770 that, a tingle came down my spine. Because we had 0:20:02.850 --> 0:20:05.159 agonized a lot as to whether we could ever do a second 0:20:05.159 --> 0:20:09.770 series and that seemed to be a starting point. I 0:20:09.770 --> 0:20:13.060 was very keen that we follow the love story aspect 0:20:13.060 --> 0:20:15.389 of it. I think that it was probably, this is again, 0:20:15.389 --> 0:20:18.619 me being very heartful and her being very funny, coming 0:20:18.619 --> 0:20:21.759 together, because I pushed her towards the love story with 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.590 the priest, I think. I'm very soppy. I'm a very sentimental 0:20:25.590 --> 0:20:28.820 man. And when I said to her, at one point, " 0:20:29.139 --> 0:20:32.450 I think this is a love story and I think it's about her 0:20:32.450 --> 0:20:35.080 falling in love with herself," she could have said, " I 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.029 almost vomited, but I think you might be right." In 0:20:38.030 --> 0:20:40.730 fact, it took her a while to accept that. It's about 0:20:41.460 --> 0:20:44.100 a sort of yin and yang between her and I, in 0:20:44.100 --> 0:20:49.030 terms of structure and sensibility and support, something I loved 0:20:49.030 --> 0:20:51.159 as a director. I'd come in and out of TV, 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.560 and here was the opportunity to really build and shape 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.050 something with someone, and it was an amazing experience. As I said 0:20:57.050 --> 0:20:59.169 in the speech, it was a perfect storm of love 0:20:59.169 --> 0:20:59.929