Speaker 1: From Kurt media there's no place like.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another special episode of Hollywood unscripted stuck at home.
Speaker 2: I'm Jenny Curtis and today I'm virtually sitting down with
Speaker 2: Jessica Rhodes executive producer of sharp objects dirty John the
Speaker 2: Betty Broderick story the affair and Amazon's new original series utopia.
Speaker 3: Previously head of television with Bloom House Productions she is
Speaker 3: now spearheading her own company pacesetter productions. Jessica thank you
Speaker 3: so much for joining us today. So nice to be here.
Speaker 4: Our show right now has been a series of specials
Speaker 4: and we're calling them stuck at home because we're all
Speaker 4: stuck at home trying to find ways to be creative.
Speaker 4: Some of us are slogging through and that doesn't seem
Speaker 4: to be the case for you because by the time
Speaker 4: the show comes out you will have released two series
Speaker 4: during quarantine. So what is that like for you.
Speaker 5: Yes it's been busy. We actually have three projects in
Speaker 5: post in March when the stay at home order came.
Speaker 5: One of their shows was in production but was on hiatus.
Speaker 5: So that was pretty easy to say let's just wait
Speaker 5: and see when we'll go back to production. But we
Speaker 5: had these two beautiful exquisite episodes that were being edited
Speaker 5: on one and then we had dirty John the Betty
Speaker 5: Broderick story and Gillian Flynn's utopia both luckily locked which
Speaker 5: means all the editors were done with the episodes but
Speaker 5: we still had a lot of post-production to do.
Speaker 6: And so March April was nimble Dick to witness working
Speaker 6: with these incredible teams. Luckily we had a really great
Speaker 6: shorthand QE the post producer on Utopia and I had
Speaker 6: worked together on the affair and Jonathan Howard on dirty
Speaker 6: John the Betty Broaddrick story had worked on season 1.
Speaker 6: So there was a shorthand a lot of the crew
Speaker 6: members were the same. We were able to really kind
Speaker 6: of hold each other up and get creative but we
Speaker 6: had to move everyone to home. We had to have
Speaker 6: the effects artist and town mixers and composers and color attractions.
Speaker 6: We had to have everything moved to home which was
Speaker 6: a lot but we did it. We got these incredible
Speaker 6: shows finished. They took a little bit longer. Things take
Speaker 6: longer at home. It turns out both because people are
Speaker 6: juggling kids at school are not at school. I should
Speaker 6: actually say but also literal bandwidth issues visual effects shots
Speaker 6: take longer to do and descend back and forth and
Speaker 6: home internet. But we got em all done and dirty
Speaker 6: John came out in June and then here we are
Speaker 6: at the end of September. I don't think we thought
Speaker 6: utopia would come out while everyone was still at home.
Speaker 6: But but here we are going to do. It's a
Speaker 6: good show for you to watch at home.
Speaker 3: It certainly is. And when I go to that in
Speaker 3: a second but first I can admit I am always learning.
Speaker 3: There's always something more to learn in this industry and
Speaker 3: until I started doing research for this interview I had
Speaker 3: never heard of a non writing executive producer. I didn't
Speaker 3: know that was a term but what is it you
Speaker 3: actually do on set and with your talent and writers
Speaker 3: and creators.
Speaker 7: I'd like to think it was hands supporting television has
Speaker 7: always had on writing executive producers. There's always been producers
Speaker 7: who helped get shows made help writers develop them and
Speaker 7: shoot pilots and then take them to series and help
Speaker 7: staff them and help along the way. So not doing
Speaker 7: anything different in that respect. I do think from the
Speaker 7: moment I started producing for me I kind of live
Speaker 7: for writers. That's why I came to television. That's what
Speaker 7: made me know it was the right place for me.
Speaker 8: My brother's a writer. His friends are writers of some
Speaker 8: of my very first experiences producing and supporting writers were
Speaker 8: genuinely people I loved and that felt really good to me.
Speaker 8: I think that was what I was meant to do
Speaker 8: is help creative people take their visions and get them
Speaker 8: across the finish line hopefully resembling what their vision is.
Speaker 8: And it takes a lot of people to do that.
Speaker 8: It takes a lot of work to do that. So
Speaker 8: what I just try to be is a partner to
Speaker 8: the writer whose vision we're all here for. That's my
Speaker 8: partner and that's the person that I wake up in
Speaker 8: the morning for every job is different every show is
Speaker 8: different every person is different. I just try to be
Speaker 8: where they can't be or be where they need support.
Speaker 3: So starting young and working with your brother. When did
Speaker 3: you realize Oh this is a job that I want
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: No it's crazy. Someone the other day told me that
Speaker 1: I was meeting with one of these mentorship programs and
Speaker 1: this lovely young woman was saying that she wanted to
Speaker 1: be an on writing AP and I had the same
Speaker 1: reaction you did and I was like How do you
Speaker 1: know what that is like. I did not know what
Speaker 1: that was when I was in college. There certainly weren't
Speaker 1: classes on it and there are now there's classes on
Speaker 1: TV production which they weren't even there was film programs
Speaker 1: but no one was really teaching the TV landscape. When
Speaker 1: I came up but I was a Buffy the Vampire
Speaker 1: Slayer fan and I remember seeing Marti Noxon his name
Speaker 1: come up. Executive producer Marti Noxon I saw the I
Speaker 1: in Marti and I very distinctly remember being like that's
Speaker 1: a woman again. I didn't know you could be a
Speaker 1: non writing AP I just saw that a woman could
Speaker 1: be any pain TV like that was what that taught me.
Speaker 1: And then I kind of just kept moving forward which
Speaker 1: is I want to be in AP and television. I
Speaker 1: love writers. It seems like writers could use someone to
Speaker 1: bad ideas back and forth with. That's a job. It's
Speaker 1: kind of how it happened.
Speaker 7: I mean it's so embarrassing because she's now someone I
Speaker 7: can see that are such a close friend and confidant.
Speaker 3: Having Marty be kind of the impetus for what started
Speaker 3: your career then what was it like working with her.
Speaker 3: Because she did sharp objects right.
Speaker 5: Yes. Marty knows this. It's not that embarrassing because I
Speaker 5: think I told her the first time I met her.
Speaker 5: She came in I was at Plum house television and
Speaker 5: she came in to say this is what I want
Speaker 5: to do with sharp objects. It was on the feature side.
Speaker 5: And she said at the TV series and she came
Speaker 5: in and she and I just hit it off right away.
Speaker 5: We were volleying back and forth and we were talking
Speaker 5: about what the series was and what we loved about
Speaker 5: the characters and we just were just it was just.
Speaker 5: It was instant. There were other people in the room.
Speaker 5: So I kept my cool and then I think it
Speaker 5: was like the second time we met and I was
Speaker 5: walking her out. And it's funny because it was a
Speaker 5: plum house and one house there's like secret hallway and
Speaker 5: they're like small I mean slum house. It was like
Speaker 5: down to like creepy long hallway too. I can't believe it.
Speaker 5: And I was like I just have to tell you
Speaker 5: I'm the biggest fan and you're the reason I'm in TV.
Speaker 9: I totally geek out and choose like cool Bucky like
Speaker 9: she was like great. And I've never mentioned it again.
Speaker 7: And then we became so close and so just knew
Speaker 7: we wanted to spend so much time working together. And
Speaker 7: then this story came up a couple times while we
Speaker 7: were doing some panels for sure Bob we had to
Speaker 7: relive the embarrassment. Now I just don't know I just
Speaker 7: own it.
Speaker 9: It's good to be a fan.
Speaker 8: It's like a combination my brother and Marty which is
Speaker 8: perfect because writers should be the reason I'm here.
Speaker 3: I saw an article where she discussed how she and
Speaker 3: the directors on Mark Felt I would get into real
Speaker 3: sparring matches over creative vision and she had to put
Speaker 3: you and some other producers in between them. What was
Speaker 3: that experience like. Here's the thing.
Speaker 5: The show was brilliant. The show was absolutely brilliant. So
Speaker 5: everyone wins and I think some of those creative disagreements
Speaker 5: actually made it better. I do believe that I think
Speaker 5: a lot of the times it was about something not
Speaker 5: being clear to one of them and so the process
Speaker 5: of making it clear made it better. But it was tough.
Speaker 5: It's very tough to make television when you don't have
Speaker 5: a singular vision. That's just really hard. And we all
Speaker 5: learned from it and that show would not be as
Speaker 5: brilliant as it is about every single word on the
Speaker 5: page which we all made sure to follow.
Speaker 3: You met Gillian Flynn on sharp objects. Now she is
Speaker 3: the creator of Utopia and this is her first time
Speaker 3: show running if I'm correct. Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: I'd love to just hear about your relationship with her
Speaker 5: and your collaboration with her because she's quite a voice
Speaker 5: as you've said she's incredible working with first time show
Speaker 5: runners has become one of my greatest joys because it's
Speaker 5: really helping them actually know what is possible what they
Speaker 5: can say no to as well as what they can
Speaker 5: ask for and where to set their limits and that's
Speaker 5: how I approach working with them. Like Marty is only
Speaker 5: Alexander cunning hands they know how they produce a show
Speaker 5: and how they want to produce a show and how
Speaker 5: they see it with them. It's just great.
Speaker 7: Like how do we double the effort because there's two
Speaker 7: of us. And how can I be helpful and how
Speaker 7: can I be in more places and how can I
Speaker 7: help you get what you want. But with first time
Speaker 7: show runners it's so much fun especially women. We want
Speaker 7: to be A students. We want to do well but
Speaker 7: I think everyone has their first shot wants to do
Speaker 7: it perfectly wants to do everything. Look Daub is too
Speaker 7: big for one person.
Speaker 5: And so what it is is an effort and restraint
Speaker 5: and knowing when someone actually needs that from you and
Speaker 5: when you need to work on your schedule not their schedule.
Speaker 5: And so getting to work with Jillian who had every
Speaker 5: answer in her head she wrote all the scripts. So
Speaker 5: there was never anyone else that was gonna be able
Speaker 5: to give you the answer so everyone needed her and
Speaker 5: everyone wanted to get inside her wicked head. And so
Speaker 5: really it was about how do we build a structure
Speaker 5: or how do we bring in the very best department
Speaker 5: heads how do we bring in the best producing partners
Speaker 5: who can help this single person be in all these
Speaker 5: places at once. And I think that was an adjustment
Speaker 5: for Jillian from obviously writing novels but then writing screenplays
Speaker 5: for features. It's more of a director's medium even on
Speaker 5: sharp objects where Jillian was in the writers room. It
Speaker 5: was amazing and then she was on set and she
Speaker 5: was the bible of the show and so everyone obviously
Speaker 5: wanted so much access to her. But it's very different
Speaker 5: especially on a show like utopia where there's so many
Speaker 5: twists and turns and hidden reasons why and how she
Speaker 5: wanted things executed were so precise. She did such an
Speaker 5: amazing job. I mean it's 100 percent Gilliam is a
Speaker 5: great show.
Speaker 3: I've seen almost all of it because they were nice
Speaker 3: enough to leave off the ending episode from the script
Speaker 3: about that we kind of had to but I'm excited
Speaker 3: to see that one. It's based off of the British
Speaker 3: version of utopia which was created by Dennis Kelly who
Speaker 3: is an executive producer on the show. So what was
Speaker 3: his guidance there and did he allow Jillian to have
Speaker 3: her own vision but also was it hard for him
Speaker 3: what was that like.
Speaker 6: I mean Dennis was incredible in the fact that I
Speaker 6: think not unlike Gilliam is with her novels that she
Speaker 6: doesn't adapt his series exists and nothing she does in
Speaker 6: her series is going to change what his was and
Speaker 6: so he really gave her space to make her series
Speaker 6: which again is very much what Gilliam did for Marty
Speaker 6: you know with sharp objects and so he saw scripts
Speaker 6: and he saw the episodes and he was incredibly complimentary
Speaker 6: and very supportive.
Speaker 7: I know that they had their conversations over the years
Speaker 7: it was a long process it was a long development
Speaker 7: process but he knew it had to be hers especially
Speaker 7: because it's an English language show so if you're going
Speaker 7: to remake an English language show you have to be
Speaker 7: changing it. You have to be reinventing it. It has
Speaker 7: to be yours.
Speaker 3: And this version's feelings I'd love to hear more about
Speaker 3: the process. How did it start. How did you come onboard.
Speaker 3: Where did it all begin.
Speaker 5: So Julian had been developing it for a number of
Speaker 5: years at HBO when Gilligan and I got to know
Speaker 5: each other on sharp objects and they were just in
Speaker 5: the process of deciding it was going to be at
Speaker 5: a different network. And so Gilligan asked me if I
Speaker 5: wanted to come and be a part of it. She
Speaker 5: sent me the scripts all of them. Sorry not to
Speaker 5: rub in the fact that I got the last one.
Speaker 10: And I remember distinctly because I had flown in to
Speaker 10: Albuquerque to visit Andrew Miller's set of tremors and I'd
Speaker 10: gotten in late and had to be on set early
Speaker 10: in the morning and I started reading on the plane
Speaker 10: and I kept reading I got to my hotel I
Speaker 10: checked in and I kept reading and I read until
Speaker 10: 4:00 a.m. And I think I had to wake up
Speaker 10: at 6:00 or so it was like the stupidest thing
Speaker 10: I could have done but I couldn't stop you then.
Speaker 10: The series I'm sure you know I couldn't stop. Every
Speaker 10: new script I couldn't believe how much it subverted what
Speaker 10: I was assuming and expecting Gilligan is wickedly funny she
Speaker 10: has a sense of humor and person that it's dancing
Speaker 10: through her pages but a lot of the times it
Speaker 10: didn't appear in dialogue. You're not laughing out loud when
Speaker 10: you're watching sharp objects. Let's be honest like you told
Speaker 10: me I got to have these laugh out loud moments
Speaker 10: that Gilliam's full love. So I was so excited was
Speaker 10: just such a different side of her. And then we
Speaker 10: went and we set it up on Amazon and we
Speaker 10: were off to the races.
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Speaker 10: saw that Gilligan said you know it's not that violent
Speaker 10: compared to what utopia is so very much I should
Speaker 10: say by the way about the violence made much more
Speaker 10: awkward that we were doing all of the post work
Speaker 10: from home and I was approving VFX shots and little
Speaker 10: I've never been so worried about who was coming over
Speaker 10: my shoulder. I have two small children.
Speaker 12: And yeah usually when you're checking job you're worried about
Speaker 12: someone seeing a spoiler. Right.
Speaker 5: Someone walking by from another show and finding something out
Speaker 5: about Utopia. This was like every day what nightmare can
Speaker 5: I keep my small human being from having. Did they
Speaker 5: ever see a no. The closest we got was I
Speaker 5: really loved the Amazon marketing campaign. And they sent the
Speaker 5: red band trailer and I was watching that when my
Speaker 5: daughter walked in and she knew very quickly that I
Speaker 5: was watching the show. She's not allowed to see and
Speaker 5: so she hightailed it out of there.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what the violence is in the British version.
Speaker 3: But even with that it looks like so much fun
Speaker 3: to make. Was there a specific day or scene or
Speaker 3: anything that you really loved making.
Speaker 6: Gosh it's so hard because the cast was so siloed
Speaker 6: and so much of the fun. Was there a rapport
Speaker 6: you know like I got to be there for the
Speaker 6: French con stuff. It's always so fun when it's not
Speaker 6: just everything and Gilliam's mind or your creative side but
Speaker 6: all of the department heads minds the wardrobe the production
Speaker 6: design and it would be not just our core cast right.
Speaker 6: You'd look in a costume would walk by you in
Speaker 6: the cause play and it was brilliant right because they
Speaker 6: were having to invent all these characters like every graphic
Speaker 6: novel every character you'd see on the floor was this
Speaker 6: harmony between production design and costume design being like let's
Speaker 6: create this character.
Speaker 5: In this graphic novel it doesn't exist and that's to
Speaker 5: me so much fun. That's the stuff that like let's
Speaker 5: put on a show.
Speaker 3: Was it a challenge to create a convention of scale.
Speaker 6: It was this weird thing. Gilliam and I have this
Speaker 6: idea that it's fringe con right. So it was very
Speaker 6: distinctly not supposed to be as cool as San Diego
Speaker 6: or New York. So that was a little complicated right
Speaker 6: figuring out like the scale of it. The crazy part
Speaker 6: about that is that hotel is real and has this
Speaker 6: honeycomb roofs and honeycomb balconies and is super you know weird.
Speaker 6: A lot of us stayed there because we're shooting through
Speaker 6: the night and so we lived in fringe fun. That
Speaker 6: was weird.
Speaker 3: I want to talk about casting because the cast is
Speaker 3: great but John Cusack doesn't really do TV. So how
Speaker 3: did he get brought onto the project.
Speaker 7: He was a really exciting idea. The fun part is
Speaker 7: Christie isn't in the original. He's not in the UK version.
Speaker 7: So that's a completely original character. We loved him the
Speaker 7: moment his name came up. We were shooting in Chicago
Speaker 7: which is where he lives and I swear we thought
Speaker 7: that's why they were excited about it and we thought
Speaker 7: like oh that's why John Cusack is doing TV is
Speaker 7: because it's TV in Chicago. And then he got on
Speaker 7: the phone with Jillian and he was like I love
Speaker 7: these scripts. He was super in and then you look
Speaker 7: where you're shooting. He's like Chicago and he's like Oh.
Speaker 9: That's great. And we're like oh that's not what you did.
Speaker 3: That's just because it's great right. It's just great writing.
Speaker 3: How did you find the rest of the cast. They
Speaker 3: were great cohesive little unit.
Speaker 5: Yeah. David Rubin who is now the president of the academy.
Speaker 5: But he is our incredible casting director. He did sharp
Speaker 5: objects as well. So Jillian and I asked him to
Speaker 5: be part of Utopia and he just drove in and
Speaker 5: his team was so amazing. I think Gilliam had Sasha
Speaker 5: in her mind very early. I mean it's a hard
Speaker 5: role to cast.
Speaker 3: Sasha Laine who plays Jessica Hyde. Jessica is such a
Speaker 3: interesting character because you want her to be a hero
Speaker 3: but she's not necessarily a hero she's just trying to
Speaker 3: survive like we hear over and over. You need to
Speaker 3: stay alive Jessica.
Speaker 7: It's so specific. And Sasha so embodies. Jessica and then
Speaker 7: the rest we just assembled your mix and match. I
Speaker 7: mean there's some incredible breakouts which is really exciting.
Speaker 4: Is it interesting sharing a name with the lead character
Speaker 4: and so you're being screamed for on set. It's funny.
Speaker 5: It wasn't a set thing because most people call her
Speaker 5: Sasha on set. Like it wasn't a set thing. It
Speaker 5: was absolutely a post thing because people in post don't
Speaker 5: exactly know the actors much or you're talking about the
Speaker 5: characters more whenever you'd have a conversation with the network
Speaker 5: and they'd want to talk about Jessica. That was I
Speaker 5: think I was the only one aware of it which
Speaker 5: is good. Like I was only about like you can't
Speaker 5: get out of your own head you know. And then
Speaker 5: every once in a while in marketing we'd be on
Speaker 5: these huge calls and they'd be talking about Jessica and
Speaker 5: Jessica and Jessica. It's so weird that you ask that
Speaker 5: question because it's only ever happened to me once before
Speaker 5: which was in tremors. ANDREW MILLER named a character Jessica
Speaker 5: and promised to change then it never got changed. And
Speaker 5: then I was doing the same thing here. I knew
Speaker 5: going in.
Speaker 3: So Jessica the character she's a badass and obviously she's
Speaker 3: been trained to fight and she's very agile and quick
Speaker 3: with her weapons and all of that. Did Sasha have
Speaker 3: to go through fight training. Did she do her own
Speaker 3: stunts ever. What was the process there.
Speaker 5: I mean the amazing thing about Sasha is that she
Speaker 5: had already done fight training for the movie. She'd done
Speaker 5: right before us. It's a big franchise. And so she
Speaker 5: had just done huge fight training and done her own
Speaker 5: stunts and was really excited about that.
Speaker 3: But we ended up obviously we took safety precautions and
Speaker 3: it's not all the trajectory of the story with so
Speaker 3: many characters who do shockingly not end up continuing. Did
Speaker 3: the actors know the full script as they went in
Speaker 3: were some of them surprised at who stayed involved and
Speaker 3: who didn't.
Speaker 5: That's a good question. I don't think I can answer
Speaker 5: it without spoiling me thing because if you've seen the
Speaker 5: show a couple of them knew going in.
Speaker 6: Not all of them. That's a good enough answer for
Speaker 6: what you can.
Speaker 3: Do. Ok I want to take a break from Utopia
Speaker 3: really quick and just go back in your career because
Speaker 3: you've done such vastly different genres. I grew up. It's
Speaker 3: like watching you grow up because you really started with
Speaker 3: Disney and Nickelodeon and working with Ashley Tisdale. I'd love
Speaker 3: to hear more about those years and what you learned
Speaker 3: from them.
Speaker 5: Yeah. By the way now my kids are watching those
Speaker 5: movies and those shows and now it kills me that
Speaker 5: my kids can't watch my shows.
Speaker 4: They will eventually you know it's so crazy.
Speaker 5: I mean look I started producing when I was twenty
Speaker 5: two years old so I knew I wanted to produce
Speaker 5: for some strange reason thought I should be able to
Speaker 5: do it. And I had to figure out why people
Speaker 5: needed me why I could be useful. Well there's not
Speaker 5: that many things for someone to do. So I didn't
Speaker 5: figure out early that the family space was welcoming to me.
Speaker 5: I was young I was closer in age to the
Speaker 5: audience and so I could at least seemingly have my
Speaker 5: finger on the pulse. I got along with the actors
Speaker 5: and I was able to make a lot of shows
Speaker 5: for Nickelodeon and Disney and I got to know the
Speaker 5: executives extremely well. And it was this really special thing.
Speaker 5: This is before a lot of writers have come over
Speaker 5: to TV. They were a lot of feature writers who
Speaker 5: weren't being produced. They were making money and a living
Speaker 5: writing but they weren't being produced. And so I was
Speaker 5: able to bring a few of them over and say
Speaker 5: let's get your show me let's get your movie made.
Speaker 5: And that was really exciting right.
Speaker 13: I was young and I didn't have real ties to L.A.
Speaker 13: and so I think I was in Vancouver for the
Speaker 13: majority of several years going one show to another. It
Speaker 13: was incredible and I am a firm believer in that
Speaker 13: 10000 hours the Malcolm Gladwell idea I get 10000 hours
Speaker 13: a producer extremely young and I got to a point
Speaker 13: where I could be calm and collected in almost any circumstance.
Speaker 13: And I was ready to make television that matched more
Speaker 13: what I wanted to watch and what I wanted to
Speaker 13: read what I wanted to say. And so I was
Speaker 13: looking at how to transition and again it came down
Speaker 13: to writers a lot of writers who I had worked
Speaker 13: with had told their reps that they wanted to do
Speaker 13: more with me. It was it was just a it
Speaker 13: was that. And so a really great guy at CAA
Speaker 13: Frank was like Jason Bloom's looking for someone to head
Speaker 13: his TV company like would you ever do that. I
Speaker 13: know you've been a producer on your own all these years.
Speaker 13: But like Is that something you do. And I said
Speaker 13: let me meet them because I was definitely looking for
Speaker 13: a change. And also what I liked about longhouse a
Speaker 13: lot is that Jason had built a company on the
Speaker 13: feature side based on giving the case to the directors right.
Speaker 13: This director creative autonomy that was so important to him
Speaker 13: and that's exactly what I wanted to do a.. That's
Speaker 13: what I came to TV to do for writers. And
Speaker 13: so I really even though obviously house is far more
Speaker 13: well-known for the brand and the genre. I loved what
Speaker 13: was underneath what they were doing which was believing in
Speaker 13: those creatives and like sticking to them. So that was
Speaker 13: the transition which I think changed. When you look at
Speaker 13: the projects I've done there's a market change right there
Speaker 13: and I still appreciate Jason seeing that in me. I
Speaker 13: mean it was the same it's just writers writers writers.
Speaker 3: What did he need to see from you to know
Speaker 3: that this kind of genre switch was in your wheelhouse
Speaker 3: would become.
Speaker 5: I mean I think he probably saw that I just
Speaker 5: want to support the creative and that was important to him.
Speaker 5: I came out of low budget niche television. It happened
Speaker 5: to be for family entertainment but it's a company that
Speaker 5: built on low budget nation or payment so a lot
Speaker 5: of these are applicable skills. We just hit it off.
Speaker 5: I think he saw that I was a producer and
Speaker 5: I was coming into produced. I think he is attracted
Speaker 5: to people who are produce Oriel.
Speaker 3: What is the job of head of television.
Speaker 5: He certainly had a lot of television already setup. When
Speaker 5: I got there but the goal was taking the company
Speaker 5: which was so well known for what it did on
Speaker 5: the feature side and turn it into a go to
Speaker 5: television destination and to help people realize it wasn't just
Speaker 5: horror because that's a little too niche. And so figuring
Speaker 5: out what that brand could be.
Speaker 3: When did you know that it was time to move
Speaker 3: on and create pacesetter.
Speaker 5: They were becoming a studio and that I knew I
Speaker 5: didn't want to do I wanted to remain a producer.
Speaker 5: Sharp Objects was in prep and had become my day
Speaker 5: to day had become where I spent all my time
Speaker 5: and frankly I think we all looked at each other
Speaker 5: and went. That's where you should be. Looking back it
Speaker 5: was so much easier than it probably should have been.
Speaker 3: Now you've got Station Eleven it's a post apocalyptic series
Speaker 3: about a flu.
Speaker 14: I just have to point out the obvious.
Speaker 4: You keep ending up in these virus movies.
Speaker 5: The funny thing is we talked a lot about Gilliam
Speaker 5: and Patrick Sommerville gravitational Evan before I committed to both
Speaker 5: the projects themselves are not that someone.
Speaker 10: They're very different shows they take place at very different
Speaker 10: times and a point where they're not to have been
Speaker 10: a real life global pandemic. I don't know that everyone
Speaker 10: would have actually compared the very area and they're so different.
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Speaker 19: I've had this conversation with a few people where they're
Speaker 19: like you look outside and it feels like we're all
Speaker 19: in a movie but it's not. Does it get confusing
Speaker 19: reality vs. cinema. Because you're doing these epic stories and
Speaker 19: then it kind of matches what's going on outside.
Speaker 20: Is Gilligan's Island a soothsayer. Maybe there's so many weird
Speaker 20: specific small things that hit the news and we are
Speaker 20: all on text chains just sending it to each other
Speaker 20: like cannot believe it.
Speaker 5: No one's wearing masks in the crowd scenes outside the
Speaker 5: hot zone. We had an epidemiologist we had an adviser.
Speaker 5: It didn't occur to me. It's so funny it's so
Speaker 5: pre 2020.
Speaker 3: What was the reaction that you and your team had
Speaker 3: when the pandemic hit. In real life. Having it relate
Speaker 3: so closely to your show.
Speaker 5: Well the first thing was we had a mixed playback
Speaker 5: that needed to be reset like we had this one
Speaker 5: thing that we were every 12 hours taking a temperature
Speaker 5: check on everyone to be like it safe. Should we
Speaker 5: do it. Should we gather OK now this is a
Speaker 5: real thing. We're gonna push that. We're gonna figure it out.
Speaker 5: So I think honestly we were so laser focused on
Speaker 5: producing the show that I think that is when we
Speaker 5: all went. This might be a little too close to home.
Speaker 3: I want to talk briefly about start with 8 Hollywood.
Speaker 3: The mentorship program. Could you tell us a little bit
Speaker 3: more about what it is and how you got involved.
Speaker 9: The Internet the Twitter.
Speaker 5: I mean it's absolutely incredible. There's bad things that have
Speaker 5: come out of social media and it is also nice
Speaker 5: to connect with people. And I saw quite early that
Speaker 5: some of the organizers were putting it together and I
Speaker 5: reached out and I said I'm here if anyone's interested.
Speaker 5: And they said yes. Then they introduced me to eight
Speaker 5: incredible young women. It's amazing what they were able to
Speaker 5: create so quickly and it's all volunteer run. And every
Speaker 5: one of the mentees is that a very different point
Speaker 5: in their career. There's really a young girl who's never
Speaker 5: done anything and we're having conversations about what it is
Speaker 5: to be a writer's P.A. and whether or not that's
Speaker 5: the right thing for her when rooms reopen and people
Speaker 5: gather in person and other people have shot independent features
Speaker 5: and Independent Pilots which I don't know if that's a
Speaker 5: good way to spend your time. But I really appreciate
Speaker 5: that they're doing it. I think that that's the thing
Speaker 5: people don't have mentors so people don't have people saying
Speaker 5: I don't know who's gonna watch that.
Speaker 7: I don't know how that's going to lead to what
Speaker 7: you want. Let's focus on things that are gonna lead
Speaker 7: to what you want. How do we find the right
Speaker 7: way to show your talent grow your talent. How do
Speaker 7: we get in the right hands. What is a real
Speaker 7: next step.
Speaker 5: So many young inexperience not necessarily in years creatives have
Speaker 5: been loading out there trying to figure out how to
Speaker 5: be creative how to use their time wisely. I am only.
Speaker 5: One person with one opinion so you have to pick
Speaker 5: your advice well and decide if it's for you. But
Speaker 5: ideally someone's making introductions when you're ready for it and
Speaker 5: I like opening the barriers to entry because so much
Speaker 5: of this industry is absolutely who you know it just
Speaker 5: is it's OK as long as you have opportunities to
Speaker 5: know more people and people that frankly have different opportunities
Speaker 5: than you do want to ask them what is it.
Speaker 3: That's not the right step necessarily about shooting your own
Speaker 3: independent feature or pilot.
Speaker 5: I think feature is great because there's actually something you
Speaker 5: can do with it that it's not only a test
Speaker 5: of your skill your art form. It's honing it back
Speaker 5: to 10000 hours just doing it does make you better.
Speaker 5: But aside from letting people see it there's release opportunities
Speaker 5: now they're streaming platforms. There is actually a way to
Speaker 5: get it seen. There's still no way that people can
Speaker 5: even see professionally produced pilots that don't go to series.
Speaker 5: So a spec pilot to me I don't know that
Speaker 5: that's as effective as say a short or a feature.
Speaker 5: That's a really specific I don't know how many people
Speaker 5: are walking around shooting spec pilots.
Speaker 3: We are kind of talk. Make your projects that you
Speaker 3: have something to show when you get the chance to
Speaker 3: meet someone because the door has opened. But it makes
Speaker 3: sense if you've put all this time and energy and
Speaker 3: money into a project and then you can't put it out.
Speaker 5: That's just my opinion. I think what you want things
Speaker 5: that you work on to not only get the showcase
Speaker 5: what you can do but hopefully have a life for
Speaker 5: all the people that worked on it.
Speaker 3: You came on to season two of dirty John and
Speaker 3: then you came on to like season 4 and 5
Speaker 3: of the affair coming on later in a series. What
Speaker 3: is that experience and how do you find your flow
Speaker 3: with an already established show.
Speaker 5: It just always comes back to the showrunner and just
Speaker 5: trying to watch and read and listen to whatever you
Speaker 5: can get your hands on from where they've been. And
Speaker 5: then just really focus on where they want to go
Speaker 5: and it's not without difficulty. You know it's tricky but
Speaker 5: hopefully if you're there. In my case they want you there.
Speaker 5: So you're really trying to help them. And luckily for
Speaker 5: both those two examples I was huge fan of the
Speaker 5: shows to begin with and obviously the creators. So it's
Speaker 5: just an opportunity to work with them.
Speaker 3: Each set you're on. Do you take away new lessons always.
Speaker 5: But sometimes the personal lessons sometimes they're about how you
Speaker 5: manage your team or your life for your balance. Sometimes
Speaker 5: you realize where you're spending energy that you could spend less.
Speaker 5: You learn how to be more efficient in life but
Speaker 5: that just comes with age. I think that comes with
Speaker 5: every set but also just comes with age and being
Speaker 5: a mom you get really really efficient.
Speaker 3: You mentioned who you look up to when you were
Speaker 3: getting into TV but did you have any mentors like
Speaker 3: how you're mentoring people now. Did you have any mentors
Speaker 3: as you were coming up.
Speaker 5: Not that I knew they were my mentor. What I
Speaker 5: had were people whose careers I was watching and careers
Speaker 5: I was learning from. And sometimes it was learning what
Speaker 5: I didn't want to do but yeah what I've replaced
Speaker 5: that in later in my life and my career have
Speaker 5: been these deeply fulfilling collaborative friendships. But that's a generational
Speaker 5: thing too. I think that's why a lot of women
Speaker 5: of my generation especially are trying to be supportive of
Speaker 5: younger men and women that we see talent in.
Speaker 3: So if you were mentoring young Jessica right now what
Speaker 3: would be your advice for you.
Speaker 5: That's a good question. Wow it's a really good question
Speaker 5: because I do think every mistake you made gets you
Speaker 5: to where you're at right. I think just take it
Speaker 5: less personally. Get out of your own head and it's
Speaker 5: really weird advice to give from home when we're all
Speaker 5: so in our own minds and so in our own
Speaker 5: space it's really easy to forget that people are fixated
Speaker 5: and obsessed with their own things and their own issues
Speaker 5: and their own concerns and it so rarely has to
Speaker 5: do with you. You know I think it's really easy
Speaker 5: to overthink things especially as someone who wants to be liked.
Speaker 5: That's a human trait. And I think to just not
Speaker 5: take it personally it is a business.
Speaker 3: So I always wrap up on the same question which
Speaker 3: I am excited to hear from you because you have
Speaker 3: a different perspective but what does it mean to you
Speaker 3: to have a life in storytelling.
Speaker 5: Again it's funny being asked at this moment where people
Speaker 5: need outlets more than ever they need escapism more than
Speaker 5: ever entertainment more than ever. For me I'm always interested
Speaker 5: in what writers have to write what storytellers have to
Speaker 5: explore what tales they have to tell. And I think
Speaker 5: in moments like we're in currently you're literally watching writers
Speaker 5: write their way through it. And those are the stories
Speaker 5: I want to tell. And those are the stories I
Speaker 5: want to watch. So for me being a part of
Speaker 5: telling those stories. That's how you connect. I truly believe that.
Speaker 3: Jessica Rhodes thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3: Everybody should definitely watch utopia.
Speaker 2: It is on Amazon. It is a great show. And
Speaker 2: thank you so much for talking to us today. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much. Have a good one. Hollywood unscripted is
Speaker 2: created by Kurt Commedia this special episode of the stuck
Speaker 2: at home series was hosted and produced by me Jenny
Speaker 2: Curtis with guest Jessica Rhoades co-produced and edited by Jay
Speaker 2: Whiting the executive producer of Hollywood unscripted as Stuart Halperin
Speaker 2: the Hollywood unscripted theme song is by Celeste and Eric Dick.
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any special
Speaker 2: episodes of Hollywood unscripted stuck at home.
Speaker 21: Stay safe and healthy and thanks for listening. Kurt call media. Media.
Speaker 22: For your mind.