WEBVTT - 40 - Jessica Rhoades (Utopia) 0:00:00.900 --> 0:00:03.630 From Kurt media there's no place like. 0:00:15.150 --> 0:00:18.650 Welcome to another special episode of Hollywood unscripted stuck at home. 0:00:18.660 --> 0:00:21.630 I'm Jenny Curtis and today I'm virtually sitting down with 0:00:21.630 --> 0:00:25.770 Jessica Rhodes executive producer of sharp objects dirty John the 0:00:25.770 --> 0:00:30.680 Betty Broderick story the affair and Amazon's new original series utopia. 0:00:30.750 --> 0:00:33.540 Previously head of television with Bloom House Productions she is 0:00:33.540 --> 0:00:37.620 now spearheading her own company pacesetter productions. Jessica thank you 0:00:37.620 --> 0:00:40.000 so much for joining us today. So nice to be here. 0:00:40.020 --> 0:00:42.210 Our show right now has been a series of specials 0:00:42.210 --> 0:00:44.459 and we're calling them stuck at home because we're all 0:00:44.460 --> 0:00:47.070 stuck at home trying to find ways to be creative. 0:00:47.070 --> 0:00:49.710 Some of us are slogging through and that doesn't seem 0:00:49.710 --> 0:00:51.659 to be the case for you because by the time 0:00:51.659 --> 0:00:55.500 the show comes out you will have released two series 0:00:55.620 --> 0:00:58.950 during quarantine. So what is that like for you. 0:00:59.250 --> 0:01:05.010 Yes it's been busy. We actually have three projects in 0:01:05.010 --> 0:01:09.140 post in March when the stay at home order came. 0:01:09.209 --> 0:01:11.390 One of their shows was in production but was on hiatus. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.830 So that was pretty easy to say let's just wait 0:01:13.830 --> 0:01:16.080 and see when we'll go back to production. But we 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.040 had these two beautiful exquisite episodes that were being edited 0:01:20.150 --> 0:01:23.880 on one and then we had dirty John the Betty 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.380 Broderick story and Gillian Flynn's utopia both luckily locked which 0:01:28.380 --> 0:01:31.650 means all the editors were done with the episodes but 0:01:31.650 --> 0:01:34.200 we still had a lot of post-production to do. 0:01:34.290 --> 0:01:42.120 And so March April was nimble Dick to witness working 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.580 with these incredible teams. Luckily we had a really great 0:01:44.580 --> 0:01:48.380 shorthand QE the post producer on Utopia and I had 0:01:48.380 --> 0:01:52.800 worked together on the affair and Jonathan Howard on dirty 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.250 John the Betty Broaddrick story had worked on season 1. 0:01:55.260 --> 0:01:57.540 So there was a shorthand a lot of the crew 0:01:57.540 --> 0:01:59.309 members were the same. We were able to really kind 0:01:59.310 --> 0:02:02.340 of hold each other up and get creative but we 0:02:02.340 --> 0:02:05.220 had to move everyone to home. We had to have 0:02:05.220 --> 0:02:10.780 the effects artist and town mixers and composers and color attractions. 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.829 We had to have everything moved to home which was 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.350 a lot but we did it. We got these incredible 0:02:16.350 --> 0:02:20.010 shows finished. They took a little bit longer. Things take 0:02:20.010 --> 0:02:23.130 longer at home. It turns out both because people are 0:02:23.130 --> 0:02:26.340 juggling kids at school are not at school. I should 0:02:26.340 --> 0:02:30.780 actually say but also literal bandwidth issues visual effects shots 0:02:30.780 --> 0:02:33.840 take longer to do and descend back and forth and 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.660 home internet. But we got em all done and dirty 0:02:36.660 --> 0:02:39.989 John came out in June and then here we are 0:02:40.169 --> 0:02:42.030 at the end of September. I don't think we thought 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.880 utopia would come out while everyone was still at home. 0:02:44.889 --> 0:02:47.880 But but here we are going to do. It's a 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:49.500 good show for you to watch at home. 0:02:49.500 --> 0:02:51.960 It certainly is. And when I go to that in 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.380 a second but first I can admit I am always learning. 0:02:55.410 --> 0:02:57.840 There's always something more to learn in this industry and 0:02:57.900 --> 0:03:00.660 until I started doing research for this interview I had 0:03:00.660 --> 0:03:03.480 never heard of a non writing executive producer. I didn't 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.760 know that was a term but what is it you 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.000 actually do on set and with your talent and writers 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:09.900 and creators. 0:03:09.900 --> 0:03:13.560 I'd like to think it was hands supporting television has 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.880 always had on writing executive producers. There's always been producers 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.470 who helped get shows made help writers develop them and 0:03:22.530 --> 0:03:24.510 shoot pilots and then take them to series and help 0:03:24.510 --> 0:03:26.850 staff them and help along the way. So not doing 0:03:26.850 --> 0:03:30.030 anything different in that respect. I do think from the 0:03:30.030 --> 0:03:33.240 moment I started producing for me I kind of live 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.530 for writers. That's why I came to television. That's what 0:03:37.620 --> 0:03:39.780 made me know it was the right place for me. 0:03:39.780 --> 0:03:42.600 My brother's a writer. His friends are writers of some 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.250 of my very first experiences producing and supporting writers were 0:03:47.460 --> 0:03:52.220 genuinely people I loved and that felt really good to me. 0:03:52.230 --> 0:03:54.180 I think that was what I was meant to do 0:03:54.300 --> 0:03:57.870 is help creative people take their visions and get them 0:03:57.870 --> 0:04:01.440 across the finish line hopefully resembling what their vision is. 0:04:01.830 --> 0:04:03.540 And it takes a lot of people to do that. 0:04:03.540 --> 0:04:06.120 It takes a lot of work to do that. So 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.700 what I just try to be is a partner to 0:04:08.850 --> 0:04:12.360 the writer whose vision we're all here for. That's my 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.850 partner and that's the person that I wake up in 0:04:14.850 --> 0:04:17.820 the morning for every job is different every show is 0:04:17.820 --> 0:04:22.320 different every person is different. I just try to be 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.560 where they can't be or be where they need support. 0:04:25.620 --> 0:04:29.550 So starting young and working with your brother. When did 0:04:29.550 --> 0:04:32.060 you realize Oh this is a job that I want 0:04:32.060 --> 0:04:32.680 to do. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.620 No it's crazy. Someone the other day told me that 0:04:35.910 --> 0:04:38.219 I was meeting with one of these mentorship programs and 0:04:38.220 --> 0:04:40.260 this lovely young woman was saying that she wanted to 0:04:40.260 --> 0:04:42.150 be an on writing AP and I had the same 0:04:42.150 --> 0:04:43.650 reaction you did and I was like How do you 0:04:43.650 --> 0:04:45.780 know what that is like. I did not know what 0:04:45.779 --> 0:04:48.930 that was when I was in college. There certainly weren't 0:04:48.930 --> 0:04:51.330 classes on it and there are now there's classes on 0:04:51.330 --> 0:04:54.059 TV production which they weren't even there was film programs 0:04:54.089 --> 0:04:56.580 but no one was really teaching the TV landscape. When 0:04:56.580 --> 0:04:59.130 I came up but I was a Buffy the Vampire 0:04:59.130 --> 0:05:04.950 Slayer fan and I remember seeing Marti Noxon his name 0:05:04.950 --> 0:05:09.480 come up. Executive producer Marti Noxon I saw the I 0:05:09.770 --> 0:05:13.229 in Marti and I very distinctly remember being like that's 0:05:13.230 --> 0:05:15.750 a woman again. I didn't know you could be a 0:05:15.750 --> 0:05:18.450 non writing AP I just saw that a woman could 0:05:18.450 --> 0:05:21.299 be any pain TV like that was what that taught me. 0:05:21.300 --> 0:05:24.450 And then I kind of just kept moving forward which 0:05:24.450 --> 0:05:27.630 is I want to be in AP and television. I 0:05:27.630 --> 0:05:31.920 love writers. It seems like writers could use someone to 0:05:31.950 --> 0:05:35.549 bad ideas back and forth with. That's a job. It's 0:05:35.550 --> 0:05:37.060 kind of how it happened. 0:05:37.110 --> 0:05:39.690 I mean it's so embarrassing because she's now someone I 0:05:39.690 --> 0:05:42.190 can see that are such a close friend and confidant. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.690 Having Marty be kind of the impetus for what started 0:05:45.690 --> 0:05:48.390 your career then what was it like working with her. 0:05:48.420 --> 0:05:50.250 Because she did sharp objects right. 0:05:50.450 --> 0:05:54.479 Yes. Marty knows this. It's not that embarrassing because I 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.310 think I told her the first time I met her. 0:05:56.610 --> 0:06:00.420 She came in I was at Plum house television and 0:06:00.420 --> 0:06:02.760 she came in to say this is what I want 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.510 to do with sharp objects. It was on the feature side. 0:06:05.550 --> 0:06:09.120 And she said at the TV series and she came 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.260 in and she and I just hit it off right away. 0:06:12.270 --> 0:06:14.159 We were volleying back and forth and we were talking 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:15.989 about what the series was and what we loved about 0:06:15.990 --> 0:06:18.150 the characters and we just were just it was just. 0:06:18.420 --> 0:06:20.739 It was instant. There were other people in the room. 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.570 So I kept my cool and then I think it 0:06:24.570 --> 0:06:27.330 was like the second time we met and I was 0:06:27.330 --> 0:06:30.060 walking her out. And it's funny because it was a 0:06:30.070 --> 0:06:32.820 plum house and one house there's like secret hallway and 0:06:32.820 --> 0:06:34.440 they're like small I mean slum house. It was like 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.980 down to like creepy long hallway too. I can't believe it. 0:06:37.980 --> 0:06:39.330 And I was like I just have to tell you 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.360 I'm the biggest fan and you're the reason I'm in TV. 0:06:42.890 --> 0:06:47.480 I totally geek out and choose like cool Bucky like 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.960 she was like great. And I've never mentioned it again. 0:06:51.660 --> 0:06:55.919 And then we became so close and so just knew 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.550 we wanted to spend so much time working together. And 0:06:59.550 --> 0:07:01.770 then this story came up a couple times while we 0:07:01.770 --> 0:07:04.830 were doing some panels for sure Bob we had to 0:07:04.830 --> 0:07:07.400 relive the embarrassment. Now I just don't know I just 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:07.789 own it. 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.230 It's good to be a fan. 0:07:10.010 --> 0:07:12.380 It's like a combination my brother and Marty which is 0:07:12.390 --> 0:07:14.650 perfect because writers should be the reason I'm here. 0:07:14.670 --> 0:07:17.940 I saw an article where she discussed how she and 0:07:17.940 --> 0:07:20.970 the directors on Mark Felt I would get into real 0:07:20.970 --> 0:07:24.420 sparring matches over creative vision and she had to put 0:07:24.420 --> 0:07:27.390 you and some other producers in between them. What was 0:07:27.390 --> 0:07:30.580 that experience like. Here's the thing. 0:07:30.660 --> 0:07:34.440 The show was brilliant. The show was absolutely brilliant. So 0:07:34.950 --> 0:07:41.010 everyone wins and I think some of those creative disagreements 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.310 actually made it better. I do believe that I think 0:07:44.310 --> 0:07:47.190 a lot of the times it was about something not 0:07:47.190 --> 0:07:50.280 being clear to one of them and so the process 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.620 of making it clear made it better. But it was tough. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.790 It's very tough to make television when you don't have 0:07:56.790 --> 0:07:59.580 a singular vision. That's just really hard. And we all 0:07:59.580 --> 0:08:02.730 learned from it and that show would not be as 0:08:02.730 --> 0:08:04.890 brilliant as it is about every single word on the 0:08:04.890 --> 0:08:07.380 page which we all made sure to follow. 0:08:07.380 --> 0:08:11.340 You met Gillian Flynn on sharp objects. Now she is 0:08:11.340 --> 0:08:15.780 the creator of Utopia and this is her first time 0:08:15.780 --> 0:08:17.790 show running if I'm correct. Mm hmm. 0:08:17.820 --> 0:08:20.100 I'd love to just hear about your relationship with her 0:08:20.100 --> 0:08:23.610 and your collaboration with her because she's quite a voice 0:08:23.670 --> 0:08:27.600 as you've said she's incredible working with first time show 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:33.090 runners has become one of my greatest joys because it's 0:08:33.090 --> 0:08:37.740 really helping them actually know what is possible what they 0:08:37.740 --> 0:08:40.050 can say no to as well as what they can 0:08:40.050 --> 0:08:43.620 ask for and where to set their limits and that's 0:08:43.620 --> 0:08:47.580 how I approach working with them. Like Marty is only 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.170 Alexander cunning hands they know how they produce a show 0:08:52.350 --> 0:08:54.360 and how they want to produce a show and how 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.340 they see it with them. It's just great. 0:08:56.340 --> 0:08:59.819 Like how do we double the effort because there's two 0:08:59.820 --> 0:09:01.140 of us. And how can I be helpful and how 0:09:01.140 --> 0:09:02.400 can I be in more places and how can I 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.650 help you get what you want. But with first time 0:09:04.650 --> 0:09:08.910 show runners it's so much fun especially women. We want 0:09:08.910 --> 0:09:11.730 to be A students. We want to do well but 0:09:11.730 --> 0:09:14.400 I think everyone has their first shot wants to do 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.429 it perfectly wants to do everything. Look Daub is too 0:09:17.429 --> 0:09:18.390 big for one person. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.280 And so what it is is an effort and restraint 0:09:20.610 --> 0:09:24.630 and knowing when someone actually needs that from you and 0:09:24.630 --> 0:09:28.000 when you need to work on your schedule not their schedule. 0:09:28.070 --> 0:09:32.280 And so getting to work with Jillian who had every 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.920 answer in her head she wrote all the scripts. So 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.810 there was never anyone else that was gonna be able 0:09:36.809 --> 0:09:40.199 to give you the answer so everyone needed her and 0:09:40.260 --> 0:09:44.370 everyone wanted to get inside her wicked head. And so 0:09:44.370 --> 0:09:47.460 really it was about how do we build a structure 0:09:47.820 --> 0:09:49.949 or how do we bring in the very best department 0:09:49.950 --> 0:09:52.230 heads how do we bring in the best producing partners 0:09:52.230 --> 0:09:55.140 who can help this single person be in all these 0:09:55.140 --> 0:09:57.660 places at once. And I think that was an adjustment 0:09:57.660 --> 0:10:01.800 for Jillian from obviously writing novels but then writing screenplays 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.890 for features. It's more of a director's medium even on 0:10:04.890 --> 0:10:07.150 sharp objects where Jillian was in the writers room. It 0:10:07.170 --> 0:10:08.760 was amazing and then she was on set and she 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.460 was the bible of the show and so everyone obviously 0:10:11.460 --> 0:10:14.010 wanted so much access to her. But it's very different 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.860 especially on a show like utopia where there's so many 0:10:17.860 --> 0:10:22.840 twists and turns and hidden reasons why and how she 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.170 wanted things executed were so precise. She did such an 0:10:26.170 --> 0:10:29.229 amazing job. I mean it's 100 percent Gilliam is a 0:10:29.230 --> 0:10:30.130 great show. 0:10:30.130 --> 0:10:32.679 I've seen almost all of it because they were nice 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.969 enough to leave off the ending episode from the script 0:10:36.350 --> 0:10:38.410 about that we kind of had to but I'm excited 0:10:38.410 --> 0:10:40.929 to see that one. It's based off of the British 0:10:40.929 --> 0:10:45.010 version of utopia which was created by Dennis Kelly who 0:10:45.010 --> 0:10:47.290 is an executive producer on the show. So what was 0:10:47.290 --> 0:10:50.380 his guidance there and did he allow Jillian to have 0:10:50.380 --> 0:10:52.920 her own vision but also was it hard for him 0:10:52.929 --> 0:10:54.030 what was that like. 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.290 I mean Dennis was incredible in the fact that I 0:10:56.290 --> 0:11:00.100 think not unlike Gilliam is with her novels that she 0:11:00.100 --> 0:11:04.420 doesn't adapt his series exists and nothing she does in 0:11:04.420 --> 0:11:07.030 her series is going to change what his was and 0:11:07.030 --> 0:11:10.059 so he really gave her space to make her series 0:11:10.210 --> 0:11:13.380 which again is very much what Gilliam did for Marty 0:11:13.610 --> 0:11:17.200 you know with sharp objects and so he saw scripts 0:11:17.230 --> 0:11:20.350 and he saw the episodes and he was incredibly complimentary 0:11:20.350 --> 0:11:21.730 and very supportive. 0:11:21.730 --> 0:11:23.950 I know that they had their conversations over the years 0:11:23.950 --> 0:11:25.720 it was a long process it was a long development 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.900 process but he knew it had to be hers especially 0:11:28.900 --> 0:11:31.300 because it's an English language show so if you're going 0:11:31.300 --> 0:11:33.910 to remake an English language show you have to be 0:11:33.910 --> 0:11:37.329 changing it. You have to be reinventing it. It has 0:11:37.330 --> 0:11:38.820 to be yours. 0:11:38.860 --> 0:11:41.680 And this version's feelings I'd love to hear more about 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.200 the process. How did it start. How did you come onboard. 0:11:44.350 --> 0:11:45.520 Where did it all begin. 0:11:45.540 --> 0:11:48.490 So Julian had been developing it for a number of 0:11:48.490 --> 0:11:51.100 years at HBO when Gilligan and I got to know 0:11:51.100 --> 0:11:54.250 each other on sharp objects and they were just in 0:11:54.250 --> 0:11:57.020 the process of deciding it was going to be at 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.480 a different network. And so Gilligan asked me if I 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.520 wanted to come and be a part of it. She 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.520 sent me the scripts all of them. Sorry not to 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.160 rub in the fact that I got the last one. 0:12:08.290 --> 0:12:11.830 And I remember distinctly because I had flown in to 0:12:11.980 --> 0:12:16.330 Albuquerque to visit Andrew Miller's set of tremors and I'd 0:12:16.330 --> 0:12:17.829 gotten in late and had to be on set early 0:12:17.830 --> 0:12:19.750 in the morning and I started reading on the plane 0:12:20.620 --> 0:12:22.959 and I kept reading I got to my hotel I 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.790 checked in and I kept reading and I read until 0:12:24.790 --> 0:12:26.980 4:00 a.m. And I think I had to wake up 0:12:26.980 --> 0:12:28.990 at 6:00 or so it was like the stupidest thing 0:12:29.020 --> 0:12:31.640 I could have done but I couldn't stop you then. 0:12:31.660 --> 0:12:35.050 The series I'm sure you know I couldn't stop. Every 0:12:35.050 --> 0:12:37.870 new script I couldn't believe how much it subverted what 0:12:37.870 --> 0:12:43.600 I was assuming and expecting Gilligan is wickedly funny she 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.170 has a sense of humor and person that it's dancing 0:12:47.230 --> 0:12:49.839 through her pages but a lot of the times it 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.990 didn't appear in dialogue. You're not laughing out loud when 0:12:52.990 --> 0:12:56.490 you're watching sharp objects. Let's be honest like you told 0:12:56.530 --> 0:12:58.979 me I got to have these laugh out loud moments 0:12:58.990 --> 0:13:01.600 that Gilliam's full love. So I was so excited was 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.340 just such a different side of her. And then we 0:13:03.340 --> 0:13:05.330 went and we set it up on Amazon and we 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.300 were off to the races. 0:13:17.620 --> 0:13:20.080 Hi I'm Robert Raz host of cars that matter you 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:21.910 might be wondering what makes a car madder and I 0:13:21.910 --> 0:13:25.000 have a feeling you already know the answer. Some cars 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.490 have changed history some you can hear a mile away 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.010 some have lines that make your heart skip a beat 0:13:30.730 --> 0:13:32.699 if a car is ever made you look twice then 0:13:32.710 --> 0:13:35.510 I think you know the ones that matter. 0:13:35.530 --> 0:13:37.990 Joining me as I speak with designers collectors and market 0:13:37.990 --> 0:13:40.450 experts about the passions that drivers and the passions we 0:13:40.450 --> 0:13:51.250 drive cars that matter wherever you get your podcasts I 0:13:51.250 --> 0:13:53.890 saw that Gilligan said you know it's not that violent 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.630 compared to what utopia is so very much I should 0:13:58.630 --> 0:14:01.420 say by the way about the violence made much more 0:14:01.420 --> 0:14:04.329 awkward that we were doing all of the post work 0:14:04.330 --> 0:14:08.760 from home and I was approving VFX shots and little 0:14:08.770 --> 0:14:10.390 I've never been so worried about who was coming over 0:14:10.390 --> 0:14:12.150 my shoulder. I have two small children. 0:14:13.150 --> 0:14:16.660 And yeah usually when you're checking job you're worried about 0:14:16.660 --> 0:14:18.270 someone seeing a spoiler. Right. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.400 Someone walking by from another show and finding something out 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.550 about Utopia. This was like every day what nightmare can 0:14:24.550 --> 0:14:27.490 I keep my small human being from having. Did they 0:14:27.490 --> 0:14:31.710 ever see a no. The closest we got was I 0:14:31.710 --> 0:14:35.380 really loved the Amazon marketing campaign. And they sent the 0:14:35.380 --> 0:14:38.440 red band trailer and I was watching that when my 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.530 daughter walked in and she knew very quickly that I 0:14:41.530 --> 0:14:43.540 was watching the show. She's not allowed to see and 0:14:43.540 --> 0:14:45.550 so she hightailed it out of there. 0:14:45.550 --> 0:14:48.030 I can't imagine what the violence is in the British version. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.980 But even with that it looks like so much fun 0:14:50.980 --> 0:14:53.890 to make. Was there a specific day or scene or 0:14:53.890 --> 0:14:56.400 anything that you really loved making. 0:14:56.410 --> 0:14:59.650 Gosh it's so hard because the cast was so siloed 0:15:00.010 --> 0:15:03.060 and so much of the fun. Was there a rapport 0:15:03.190 --> 0:15:06.220 you know like I got to be there for the 0:15:06.340 --> 0:15:10.060 French con stuff. It's always so fun when it's not 0:15:10.060 --> 0:15:13.090 just everything and Gilliam's mind or your creative side but 0:15:13.510 --> 0:15:18.430 all of the department heads minds the wardrobe the production 0:15:18.430 --> 0:15:21.790 design and it would be not just our core cast right. 0:15:21.820 --> 0:15:24.790 You'd look in a costume would walk by you in 0:15:24.790 --> 0:15:26.980 the cause play and it was brilliant right because they 0:15:26.980 --> 0:15:31.000 were having to invent all these characters like every graphic 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.370 novel every character you'd see on the floor was this 0:15:33.370 --> 0:15:36.910 harmony between production design and costume design being like let's 0:15:36.910 --> 0:15:39.070 create this character. 0:15:39.430 --> 0:15:41.620 In this graphic novel it doesn't exist and that's to 0:15:41.620 --> 0:15:44.320 me so much fun. That's the stuff that like let's 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:45.310 put on a show. 0:15:45.340 --> 0:15:49.790 Was it a challenge to create a convention of scale. 0:15:49.810 --> 0:15:53.470 It was this weird thing. Gilliam and I have this 0:15:53.470 --> 0:15:55.990 idea that it's fringe con right. So it was very 0:15:55.990 --> 0:16:00.440 distinctly not supposed to be as cool as San Diego 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.190 or New York. So that was a little complicated right 0:16:03.190 --> 0:16:05.860 figuring out like the scale of it. The crazy part 0:16:05.860 --> 0:16:09.850 about that is that hotel is real and has this 0:16:09.850 --> 0:16:18.820 honeycomb roofs and honeycomb balconies and is super you know weird. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.220 A lot of us stayed there because we're shooting through 0:16:21.220 --> 0:16:23.530 the night and so we lived in fringe fun. That 0:16:23.530 --> 0:16:24.300 was weird. 0:16:24.370 --> 0:16:27.190 I want to talk about casting because the cast is 0:16:27.190 --> 0:16:30.940 great but John Cusack doesn't really do TV. So how 0:16:30.940 --> 0:16:33.010 did he get brought onto the project. 0:16:33.010 --> 0:16:36.070 He was a really exciting idea. The fun part is 0:16:36.070 --> 0:16:39.280 Christie isn't in the original. He's not in the UK version. 0:16:39.300 --> 0:16:43.540 So that's a completely original character. We loved him the 0:16:43.540 --> 0:16:46.780 moment his name came up. We were shooting in Chicago 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.930 which is where he lives and I swear we thought 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.090 that's why they were excited about it and we thought 0:16:52.090 --> 0:16:54.490 like oh that's why John Cusack is doing TV is 0:16:54.550 --> 0:16:57.220 because it's TV in Chicago. And then he got on 0:16:57.220 --> 0:16:58.870 the phone with Jillian and he was like I love 0:16:58.870 --> 0:17:00.850 these scripts. He was super in and then you look 0:17:00.850 --> 0:17:03.790 where you're shooting. He's like Chicago and he's like Oh. 0:17:04.300 --> 0:17:06.260 That's great. And we're like oh that's not what you did. 0:17:06.380 --> 0:17:09.060 That's just because it's great right. It's just great writing. 0:17:09.070 --> 0:17:10.929 How did you find the rest of the cast. They 0:17:10.930 --> 0:17:12.550 were great cohesive little unit. 0:17:12.820 --> 0:17:18.359 Yeah. David Rubin who is now the president of the academy. 0:17:18.850 --> 0:17:23.320 But he is our incredible casting director. He did sharp 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.230 objects as well. So Jillian and I asked him to 0:17:26.230 --> 0:17:30.910 be part of Utopia and he just drove in and 0:17:30.910 --> 0:17:34.240 his team was so amazing. I think Gilliam had Sasha 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.850 in her mind very early. I mean it's a hard 0:17:36.850 --> 0:17:37.690 role to cast. 0:17:37.690 --> 0:17:40.600 Sasha Laine who plays Jessica Hyde. Jessica is such a 0:17:40.750 --> 0:17:43.590 interesting character because you want her to be a hero 0:17:43.630 --> 0:17:48.070 but she's not necessarily a hero she's just trying to 0:17:48.070 --> 0:17:49.990 survive like we hear over and over. You need to 0:17:49.990 --> 0:17:50.940 stay alive Jessica. 0:17:51.220 --> 0:17:54.850 It's so specific. And Sasha so embodies. Jessica and then 0:17:54.850 --> 0:17:57.669 the rest we just assembled your mix and match. I 0:17:57.670 --> 0:18:01.000 mean there's some incredible breakouts which is really exciting. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.770 Is it interesting sharing a name with the lead character 0:18:04.780 --> 0:18:09.899 and so you're being screamed for on set. It's funny. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:11.879 It wasn't a set thing because most people call her 0:18:11.890 --> 0:18:14.440 Sasha on set. Like it wasn't a set thing. It 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.520 was absolutely a post thing because people in post don't 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.409 exactly know the actors much or you're talking about the 0:18:20.410 --> 0:18:25.060 characters more whenever you'd have a conversation with the network 0:18:25.330 --> 0:18:28.540 and they'd want to talk about Jessica. That was I 0:18:28.540 --> 0:18:30.520 think I was the only one aware of it which 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.750 is good. Like I was only about like you can't 0:18:32.750 --> 0:18:34.750 get out of your own head you know. And then 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.240 every once in a while in marketing we'd be on 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.750 these huge calls and they'd be talking about Jessica and 0:18:40.750 --> 0:18:43.390 Jessica and Jessica. It's so weird that you ask that 0:18:43.390 --> 0:18:46.179 question because it's only ever happened to me once before 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:48.899 which was in tremors. ANDREW MILLER named a character Jessica 0:18:48.900 --> 0:18:51.209 and promised to change then it never got changed. And 0:18:51.210 --> 0:18:53.280 then I was doing the same thing here. I knew 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:53.790 going in. 0:18:54.210 --> 0:18:58.110 So Jessica the character she's a badass and obviously she's 0:18:58.140 --> 0:19:01.649 been trained to fight and she's very agile and quick 0:19:01.650 --> 0:19:04.169 with her weapons and all of that. Did Sasha have 0:19:04.170 --> 0:19:06.060 to go through fight training. Did she do her own 0:19:06.060 --> 0:19:08.290 stunts ever. What was the process there. 0:19:08.290 --> 0:19:10.090 I mean the amazing thing about Sasha is that she 0:19:10.090 --> 0:19:14.040 had already done fight training for the movie. She'd done 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.280 right before us. It's a big franchise. And so she 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.430 had just done huge fight training and done her own 0:19:20.430 --> 0:19:22.880 stunts and was really excited about that. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.980 But we ended up obviously we took safety precautions and 0:19:26.340 --> 0:19:29.910 it's not all the trajectory of the story with so 0:19:29.910 --> 0:19:34.260 many characters who do shockingly not end up continuing. Did 0:19:34.260 --> 0:19:37.260 the actors know the full script as they went in 0:19:37.380 --> 0:19:40.199 were some of them surprised at who stayed involved and 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:41.070 who didn't. 0:19:41.070 --> 0:19:45.210 That's a good question. I don't think I can answer 0:19:45.210 --> 0:19:49.739 it without spoiling me thing because if you've seen the 0:19:49.740 --> 0:19:53.139 show a couple of them knew going in. 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:57.120 Not all of them. That's a good enough answer for 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:57.570 what you can. 0:19:58.369 --> 0:20:02.060 Do. Ok I want to take a break from Utopia 0:20:02.070 --> 0:20:04.619 really quick and just go back in your career because 0:20:04.619 --> 0:20:09.410 you've done such vastly different genres. I grew up. It's 0:20:09.450 --> 0:20:12.180 like watching you grow up because you really started with 0:20:12.180 --> 0:20:15.900 Disney and Nickelodeon and working with Ashley Tisdale. I'd love 0:20:15.900 --> 0:20:18.510 to hear more about those years and what you learned 0:20:18.510 --> 0:20:19.190 from them. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.260 Yeah. By the way now my kids are watching those 0:20:22.260 --> 0:20:24.690 movies and those shows and now it kills me that 0:20:24.690 --> 0:20:25.820