1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is brought to you by Future Women's Jobs Academy. 2 00:00:04,079 --> 00:00:07,190 Speaker 1: Getting back to work after a career break isn't easy. 3 00:00:07,510 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: Future Women's Jobs Academy is a free online programme supported 4 00:00:11,319 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: by the Australian government. It's proven to increase confidence and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: connect women with meaningful and flexible jobs. Apply today at jobsacademy.uwomen.com. 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,229 Speaker 1: We'll support you to find the right job and thrive. 7 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,739 Speaker 1: Nothing makes a person go weak at the knees quite 8 00:00:31,739 --> 00:00:36,470 Speaker 1: like a job interview. Enter shortlisted. A podcast by future 9 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:40,060 Speaker 1: women where Helen McCabe and I hold your virtual hand, 10 00:00:40,348 --> 00:00:43,270 Speaker 1: walking with you every step of the way right to 11 00:00:43,270 --> 00:00:46,830 Speaker 1: the interview door and straight onto the shortlist. 12 00:00:47,369 --> 00:00:51,528 Speaker 1: In this episode, we deliver the pre-interview pep talk to 13 00:00:51,529 --> 00:00:58,369 Speaker 1: convert your interview anxiety into interview enthusiasm. It's absolutely understandable 14 00:00:58,369 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: to feel nervous before an interview, but that doesn't mean 15 00:01:01,959 --> 00:01:04,379 Speaker 1: it has to impact your performance. 16 00:01:06,330 --> 00:01:08,730 Speaker 2: So, I'm in the car, I'm on my way to 17 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:14,729 Speaker 2: the interview, I am feeling sick with nerves. Help me out. 18 00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:19,660 Speaker 1: Let's start by understanding why your body feels the way 19 00:01:19,870 --> 00:01:25,619 Speaker 1: that it does. So, psychologically, anxiety and excitement produce very 20 00:01:25,620 --> 00:01:30,429 Speaker 1: similar effects on the body. So, both excitement and anxiety 21 00:01:30,430 --> 00:01:32,980 Speaker 1: will raise your heart rate. They'll give you that feeling 22 00:01:32,980 --> 00:01:35,910 Speaker 1: of butterflies in your stomach, which is definitely a scientific 23 00:01:35,910 --> 00:01:39,988 Speaker 1: technical term. They often will give you sweaty palms and 24 00:01:39,989 --> 00:01:43,269 Speaker 1: a surge in something called cortisol, which is often called 25 00:01:43,269 --> 00:01:44,110 Speaker 1: the stress hormone. 26 00:01:44,629 --> 00:01:49,349 Speaker 1: Your musculoskeletal system gets impacted as well. So your muscles 27 00:01:49,349 --> 00:01:53,150 Speaker 1: tend to get really tense if you're stressed, and your 28 00:01:53,150 --> 00:01:55,739 Speaker 1: respiratory system is part of this too. You become short 29 00:01:55,739 --> 00:01:59,669 Speaker 1: of breath, you feel like your airways are constricting. I 30 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,949 Speaker 1: Definitely have that feeling of going, I can't breathe. I'm 31 00:02:01,949 --> 00:02:04,750 Speaker 1: doing something scary, I can't breathe. And you definitely can breathe. 32 00:02:04,830 --> 00:02:07,150 Speaker 1: Nothing's wrong with your breathing. And of course, it can 33 00:02:07,150 --> 00:02:09,669 Speaker 1: manifest in your gut. And all my gut health girls 34 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:12,270 Speaker 1: out there are going, yes, because we know what it's 35 00:02:12,270 --> 00:02:14,788 Speaker 1: like to wake up really bloated before an interview. 36 00:02:15,589 --> 00:02:18,419 Speaker 1: So, that's all the stuff that's going on in your body. 37 00:02:18,508 --> 00:02:22,149 Speaker 1: And all of that stuff can be about anxiety, but 38 00:02:22,149 --> 00:02:25,029 Speaker 1: it can also be just because you're pumped, because you're 39 00:02:25,029 --> 00:02:30,149 Speaker 1: really excited. That can cause very similar feelings. And the 40 00:02:30,149 --> 00:02:33,149 Speaker 1: problem with staying in that heightened state of stress, if 41 00:02:33,149 --> 00:02:36,630 Speaker 1: it is stress rather than excitement, is that it can 42 00:02:36,630 --> 00:02:39,699 Speaker 1: start to change the rhythm of what's happening in your brain, 43 00:02:39,729 --> 00:02:41,869 Speaker 1: and it can impair your prefrontal cortex. 44 00:02:41,994 --> 00:02:44,264 Speaker 1: And that is a fancy way of saying it stops 45 00:02:44,264 --> 00:02:47,235 Speaker 1: you thinking rationally. When all those things are happening to you, 46 00:02:47,425 --> 00:02:50,184 Speaker 1: rational thinking becomes hard. So what we need to look 47 00:02:50,184 --> 00:02:55,074 Speaker 1: for in this moment of concern or anxiety or panic, 48 00:02:55,184 --> 00:02:59,543 Speaker 1: or excitement masquerading as stress is to calm all of 49 00:02:59,544 --> 00:03:02,585 Speaker 1: this down, to slow all of this down. And Helen, 50 00:03:02,654 --> 00:03:08,774 Speaker 1: it sounds really cliched, but breathing is the primary solution. 51 00:03:09,225 --> 00:03:11,744 Speaker 2: It's actually the only solution. 52 00:03:12,350 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: And if you think it sounds a bit frustratingly boringly mundane, 53 00:03:17,500 --> 00:03:20,928 Speaker 2: stop the car, turn off the engine, and just try it. 54 00:03:21,179 --> 00:03:25,690 Speaker 2: Just take 3 really deep breaths, as far as you can. 55 00:03:25,860 --> 00:03:28,139 Speaker 2: I'm gonna sound like a yoga instructor now, as deep 56 00:03:28,139 --> 00:03:30,769 Speaker 2: as you can, and then see how you feel after that, 57 00:03:31,258 --> 00:03:35,619 Speaker 2: because I've ignored that advice for decades, and I now 58 00:03:35,619 --> 00:03:39,539 Speaker 2: know it is literally the only thing. And quite often, 59 00:03:40,229 --> 00:03:43,860 Speaker 2: Jam, and you've seen me do some big events recently. 60 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:46,750 Speaker 2: I don't have the time to breathe deeply 3 times. 61 00:03:46,850 --> 00:03:48,869 Speaker 2: I've only got the time to do it once, and 62 00:03:48,869 --> 00:03:52,860 Speaker 2: it's actually enough just to get you, it just settles 63 00:03:52,869 --> 00:03:54,759 Speaker 2: everything that's going on in your bloodstream. 64 00:03:55,059 --> 00:03:58,449 Speaker 1: So as part of the Future Women masterclasses on presenting, 65 00:03:58,529 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: we speak to Tamara Auden, who is the voice coach 66 00:04:02,850 --> 00:04:06,130 Speaker 1: for everyone at the ABC, all those television presenters, you see, 67 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:09,410 Speaker 1: who speak so beautifully and so calmly, folks. And she 68 00:04:09,410 --> 00:04:13,809 Speaker 1: talks about the importance of diaphragmatic breathing. So she suggests 69 00:04:13,809 --> 00:04:16,290 Speaker 1: placing one hand on your stomach, and you can do 70 00:04:16,290 --> 00:04:18,809 Speaker 1: that right now, folks. One hand on your stomach and 71 00:04:18,809 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 1: the other one on your chest. 72 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,969 Speaker 1: And then you begin to breathe deeply into the belly region. 73 00:04:25,029 --> 00:04:27,130 Speaker 1: And you're gonna feel the hand that's on your stomach 74 00:04:27,130 --> 00:04:30,489 Speaker 1: rise as your belly fills with air. And then you 75 00:04:30,488 --> 00:04:32,809 Speaker 1: flex your abdominal muscles. I don't have many, but you 76 00:04:32,809 --> 00:04:36,450 Speaker 1: flex what you got and exhale as fully as you can. 77 00:04:36,488 --> 00:04:39,250 Speaker 1: And you'll notice that your belly falls back towards the 78 00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: spine and your chest will remain relatively still through the process. 79 00:04:44,570 --> 00:04:47,929 Speaker 1: She then recommends that you breathe in a particular pattern. 80 00:04:48,529 --> 00:04:50,769 Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's a reason this pattern is good. 81 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:53,010 Speaker 1: I like the pattern, because if I'm focused on the 82 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:54,049 Speaker 1: pattern and the counting. 83 00:04:54,709 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: I have to be focused on that and not why 84 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,238 Speaker 1: I'm anxious. So I like that pattern of breathing in 85 00:05:00,238 --> 00:05:04,390 Speaker 1: for 4, holding it for 7, which is a long count, 86 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: but if you can hold for 7, and then breathing 87 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: out really slowly to a count of 8. 88 00:05:09,940 --> 00:05:15,899 Speaker 1: And that 478 will require enough concentration that it forces 89 00:05:15,899 --> 00:05:18,339 Speaker 1: you to do the breathing. If you're someone who says, Oh, 90 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:20,690 Speaker 1: I can't meditate, cause I get distracted, I can't do it, 91 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:23,940 Speaker 1: I can't do it. If you just focus on those counts, 92 00:05:24,019 --> 00:05:26,690 Speaker 1: they are complex enough that you have to stay there 93 00:05:26,899 --> 00:05:29,130 Speaker 1: to do it correctly, and it will help you bring 94 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:32,178 Speaker 1: your brain out of that stressy, stressy kind of feeling. 95 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: Yep. So you've done that, and now we're gonna ask 96 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 2: you to make friends with your anxiety. So, reducing your 97 00:05:39,238 --> 00:05:43,149 Speaker 2: anxiety is very, very difficult to do. So why not 98 00:05:43,149 --> 00:05:47,429 Speaker 2: actually embrace it? What we know from a leading Australian 99 00:05:47,428 --> 00:05:51,349 Speaker 2: psychologist is that cognitive patterns of anxiety are highly predictable, 100 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 2: whether it's fear of public failure or disappointing someone. It 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,678 Speaker 2: means that if we can prepare for them, 102 00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:03,500 Speaker 2: Then that's comforting. So, work through what your worst possible 103 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:08,859 Speaker 2: fears are with this particular job interview. Mine is usually 104 00:06:08,859 --> 00:06:13,500 Speaker 2: falling off the stage, and then imagining what would actually 105 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:17,179 Speaker 2: happen if that did occur and you realise it's kind 106 00:06:17,178 --> 00:06:18,130 Speaker 2: of not the end of the world. 107 00:06:18,369 --> 00:06:20,980 Speaker 1: Yeah. Because your body is reacting the way it's supposed 108 00:06:20,980 --> 00:06:23,779 Speaker 1: to react to keep you safe, right? You're feeling stressed 109 00:06:23,779 --> 00:06:25,940 Speaker 1: and anxious, the way that your body is supposed to 110 00:06:25,940 --> 00:06:27,820 Speaker 1: feel when something scary is coming. 111 00:06:28,190 --> 00:06:31,519 Speaker 1: But humans' bodies have evolved to feel that fear, to 112 00:06:31,519 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 1: keep you safe from a lion, right? Like, to keep 113 00:06:34,119 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: you safe from a predator. And that is how your 114 00:06:36,359 --> 00:06:39,230 Speaker 1: body is reacting to the anxiety of a job interview. 115 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,959 Speaker 1: And your body doesn't realise that actually, the worst thing 116 00:06:42,959 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: that can happen is that you feel a bit silly 117 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: and disappointed or you fall off the stage and people 118 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,409 Speaker 1: come and ask you if you're 119 00:06:47,454 --> 00:06:49,834 Speaker 1: OK, and you're mortified. Now, I'm not saying all of 120 00:06:49,834 --> 00:06:53,005 Speaker 1: that doesn't feel awful. It does, but your body is 121 00:06:53,005 --> 00:06:56,045 Speaker 1: reacting because it's trying to avoid death. So it is 122 00:06:56,045 --> 00:06:58,604 Speaker 1: trying to avoid something a lot worse, folks. So your 123 00:06:58,605 --> 00:07:01,484 Speaker 1: body is actually overreacting, and so part of what you 124 00:07:01,484 --> 00:07:03,804 Speaker 1: need to do is to, to calm it down and 125 00:07:03,803 --> 00:07:06,795 Speaker 1: pull it back from where your mind is racing off to. 126 00:07:07,084 --> 00:07:09,204 Speaker 1: And I think another thing that can be really helpful, Helen, 127 00:07:09,285 --> 00:07:11,565 Speaker 1: is if you can try and reframe. 128 00:07:12,369 --> 00:07:16,839 Speaker 1: And I like to reframe in a couple of ways. Firstly, 129 00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:22,519 Speaker 1: recognising that that anxiety is coming about because you're also excited, 130 00:07:22,730 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: that you are nervous because you're excited, and focusing on 131 00:07:26,239 --> 00:07:30,649 Speaker 1: the excitement can be helpful. So, there's a study from 132 00:07:30,649 --> 00:07:33,329 Speaker 1: Professor Alison W. Brooks at Harvard, and she says, you 133 00:07:33,329 --> 00:07:35,869 Speaker 1: should do exactly that. Instead of saying in your head, Oh, 134 00:07:35,929 --> 00:07:37,730 Speaker 1: I'm so nervous, I'm so nervous, I'm so nervous, I'm nervous, 135 00:07:37,739 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: I'm so nervous. 136 00:07:39,429 --> 00:07:42,299 Speaker 1: Switch the wording and say, gosh, I'm excited, I am 137 00:07:42,299 --> 00:07:44,630 Speaker 1: so excited, and say it out loud, you're gonna feel 138 00:07:44,630 --> 00:07:48,339 Speaker 1: really silly, but do it anyway, say, I am so excited, 139 00:07:48,589 --> 00:07:52,220 Speaker 1: and start to push your mindset away from feeling threatened 140 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,190 Speaker 1: to feeling like what a great opportunity is in front 141 00:07:55,190 --> 00:07:55,549 Speaker 1: of me. 142 00:07:56,019 --> 00:07:59,630 Speaker 2: And take your brain to after the interview, when you've 143 00:07:59,630 --> 00:08:01,959 Speaker 2: nailed it, and you're going back into the car, you're 144 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:04,029 Speaker 2: going through the car park, you're getting back into the car, 145 00:08:04,239 --> 00:08:05,839 Speaker 2: or you've turned the zoom off and you're gonna make 146 00:08:05,839 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: a cup of tea, and you go, I just nailed 147 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,679 Speaker 2: that and I'm about to get my dream job. And 148 00:08:09,679 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: you move from fear into excitement really quickly, when you 149 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,799 Speaker 2: can just move your brain into that next phase. Try 150 00:08:16,799 --> 00:08:19,519 Speaker 2: and do that, because I reckon that is the fastest 151 00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: way to get to excitement over 152 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,309 Speaker 1: fear. I think that's lovely. And then, 153 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,959 Speaker 1: My second tip on reframing is to think about this 154 00:08:27,959 --> 00:08:33,479 Speaker 1: interview as a conversation, not an interview. Because, yes, this 155 00:08:33,479 --> 00:08:35,570 Speaker 1: organisation are interviewing you to see if you would be 156 00:08:35,570 --> 00:08:38,690 Speaker 1: the right fit to work with them, but you're also 157 00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:41,919 Speaker 1: interviewing them. You are also on a fact-finding mission to 158 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: decide if you want to work with them. 159 00:08:44,390 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: And so, as much as it is about you answering questions, 160 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,390 Speaker 1: it's about you asking questions and them answering questions. They 161 00:08:51,390 --> 00:08:53,599 Speaker 1: should be nervous too, because they should want to work 162 00:08:53,599 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: with you. So, try and go in thinking, I'm not 163 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,359 Speaker 1: going in to be grilled, I'm not sitting an exam, 164 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 1: I'm not back at school. I'm going in to have 165 00:09:01,719 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: a conversation about whether or not this job is the 166 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,799 Speaker 1: right fit for me and I'm the right fit for 167 00:09:06,799 --> 00:09:07,390 Speaker 1: this job. 168 00:09:08,179 --> 00:09:11,728 Speaker 2: And did you, did you know that 17% of people 169 00:09:11,729 --> 00:09:16,609 Speaker 2: sang better in karaoke and 22% performed better in a 170 00:09:16,609 --> 00:09:20,699 Speaker 2: math test after using that I'm excited methodology. 171 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,700 Speaker 1: Oh amazing, I love that. Well, I need to sing 172 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:26,739 Speaker 1: better in karaoke, so I will, I will try that. 173 00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:27,140 Speaker 1: You would 174 00:09:27,140 --> 00:09:30,460 Speaker 2: probably be pretty good at karaoke, or if not good 175 00:09:30,460 --> 00:09:31,380 Speaker 2: at it, pretty enthusiastic. 176 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:34,619 Speaker 1: I'm deeply enthus I'm highly committed. I'm not highly skilled, 177 00:09:34,820 --> 00:09:37,819 Speaker 1: but I'm highly committed. Folks, I wanna turn us back 178 00:09:37,820 --> 00:09:39,570 Speaker 1: just to the breathing before you move on. 179 00:09:40,429 --> 00:09:42,099 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this and you're about to walk 180 00:09:42,099 --> 00:09:44,689 Speaker 1: into that job interview, know that you have all our 181 00:09:44,690 --> 00:09:47,929 Speaker 1: very best wishes, that just like you, Helen and I 182 00:09:47,929 --> 00:09:50,969 Speaker 1: have gone to the reframing point already and your interview 183 00:09:50,969 --> 00:09:53,409 Speaker 1: is over, and we're talking to you about how well 184 00:09:53,409 --> 00:09:56,609 Speaker 1: you did and how excited you were and how that. 185 00:09:56,719 --> 00:09:59,010 Speaker 1: Came through as passion for the job that you are 186 00:09:59,010 --> 00:10:02,010 Speaker 1: about to land. And I want you to come back 187 00:10:02,219 --> 00:10:07,608 Speaker 1: to that 478 breathing and remind yourself that you are excited, 188 00:10:07,859 --> 00:10:08,890 Speaker 1: you are not nervous. 189 00:10:09,140 --> 00:10:11,260 Speaker 2: And good luck. Wishing you all the best. We know 190 00:10:11,260 --> 00:10:12,820 Speaker 2: you've got this, and tell us how you went. 191 00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:18,830 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is produced by Future Women's Jobs Academy. To apply 192 00:10:18,830 --> 00:10:24,789 Speaker 1: to join, head to jobsacademy.uwomen.com or go to Futurewomen.com to 193 00:10:24,789 --> 00:10:26,710 Speaker 1: become a future women member today.