1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:03,690 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is brought to you by Future Women's Jobs Academy. 2 00:00:04,079 --> 00:00:07,190 Speaker 1: Getting back to work after a career break isn't easy. 3 00:00:07,519 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: Future Women's Jobs Academy is a free online programme supported 4 00:00:11,319 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: by the Australian government. It's proven to increase confidence and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:22,850 Speaker 1: connect women with meaningful and flexible jobs. Apply today at jobsacademy.uwomen.com. 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,229 Speaker 1: We'll support you to find the right job and thrive. 7 00:00:29,170 --> 00:00:31,799 Speaker 1: Nothing makes a person go weak at the knees quite 8 00:00:31,799 --> 00:00:36,449 Speaker 1: like a job interview. Enter shortlisted. A podcast by future 9 00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: women where Helen McCabe and I hold your virtual hand, 10 00:00:40,330 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: walking with you every step of the way, right to 11 00:00:43,279 --> 00:00:46,810 Speaker 1: the interview door and straight onto the shortlist. 12 00:00:47,650 --> 00:00:51,430 Speaker 1: In this episode, we are doing some post-game analysis. In 13 00:00:51,430 --> 00:00:54,490 Speaker 1: other words, how do you assess the success of the 14 00:00:54,490 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 1: interview you just had? And what should you do next? 15 00:00:58,569 --> 00:01:01,810 Speaker 1: Let's figure out when and how you should follow up 16 00:01:01,810 --> 00:01:02,849 Speaker 1: after your interview. 17 00:01:04,550 --> 00:01:08,539 Speaker 2: Jamila, you've had your interview. It's gone really well. You're 18 00:01:08,540 --> 00:01:13,860 Speaker 2: very excited by the job. What next? Do you call 19 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: or email, or just, do you just wait? 20 00:01:17,790 --> 00:01:20,789 Speaker 1: I hate this particular problem because I'm an anxious, nervous, 21 00:01:20,870 --> 00:01:25,349 Speaker 1: enthusiastic person who wants to call immediately. The challenge here, folks, 22 00:01:25,430 --> 00:01:29,059 Speaker 1: is striking the right balance, I think, between being interested 23 00:01:29,059 --> 00:01:30,789 Speaker 1: and attentive on the one hand, 24 00:01:31,330 --> 00:01:36,789 Speaker 1: But not being overwhelming or obtrusive or pushy on the other. 25 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:39,139 Speaker 1: So I think there's a few things you could do, Helen. 26 00:01:39,220 --> 00:01:43,500 Speaker 1: So firstly, you can confirm the time frames in the interview. So, 27 00:01:43,779 --> 00:01:46,940 Speaker 1: if they don't confirm the timeframe themselves, like, if they 28 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:48,849 Speaker 1: don't say we'll be in touch within a couple of days, 29 00:01:49,019 --> 00:01:51,739 Speaker 1: or we'll be doing this, it's OK to ask at 30 00:01:51,739 --> 00:01:54,330 Speaker 1: the end, when can I expect to hear some feedback 31 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:57,220 Speaker 1: and who will be in touch. And often I think 32 00:01:57,220 --> 00:01:59,059 Speaker 1: it's quite, without being over the top, it's quite a 33 00:01:59,059 --> 00:02:00,860 Speaker 1: nice way to mention that of course this isn't the 34 00:02:00,860 --> 00:02:01,970 Speaker 1: only job that you're looking at. 35 00:02:02,389 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: You can always just say, obviously I'm job hunting at 36 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,149 Speaker 1: the moment and I'm having a few conversations. I'm really 37 00:02:08,149 --> 00:02:10,668 Speaker 1: excited about this role. Would you be able to tell 38 00:02:10,669 --> 00:02:13,739 Speaker 1: me when I might expect to hear feedback? And that 39 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:17,630 Speaker 1: again reinforces that you're enthusiastic while quietly reminding them that 40 00:02:17,630 --> 00:02:18,869 Speaker 1: other people might want you to. 41 00:02:19,699 --> 00:02:23,500 Speaker 2: Excellent advice. The other point to consider is your tone. 42 00:02:23,899 --> 00:02:26,669 Speaker 2: You've already met at this point, so it's OK to 43 00:02:26,669 --> 00:02:30,728 Speaker 2: use your authentic voice in any follow-up communications. Be polite 44 00:02:30,729 --> 00:02:34,710 Speaker 2: and be friendly. Try to personalise it and keep it light. 45 00:02:34,949 --> 00:02:36,940 Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't need to email with to whom it 46 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:38,660 Speaker 1: may concern once you've done an interview. 47 00:02:39,330 --> 00:02:41,369 Speaker 2: Send a thank you note within 24 hours. Now this 48 00:02:41,369 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: is not something in modern life that is necessarily popular 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:48,089 Speaker 2: or 50 00:02:48,089 --> 00:02:50,649 Speaker 1: common. My grandma sent a lot of thank you notes 51 00:02:50,649 --> 00:02:51,570 Speaker 1: when she was alive. 52 00:02:52,258 --> 00:02:54,910 Speaker 1: Yes, and I don't know if anyone in her family 53 00:02:54,910 --> 00:02:57,669 Speaker 2: has since. And I think I should do it, and 54 00:02:57,669 --> 00:03:00,110 Speaker 2: then I never get around to it. So, it's common, 55 00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:02,660 Speaker 2: in fact, advisable to thank the hiring manager for their 56 00:03:02,660 --> 00:03:05,820 Speaker 2: time and to reassert your interest. Really good thing to do. 57 00:03:06,070 --> 00:03:08,789 Speaker 2: If you're concerned, you missed any critical information, this is 58 00:03:08,788 --> 00:03:11,389 Speaker 2: also a chance to mention it. So, I didn't answer 59 00:03:11,389 --> 00:03:15,070 Speaker 2: this question correctly. Um, this is what I would have 60 00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:17,580 Speaker 2: said if I'd had more time to think about it. 61 00:03:17,869 --> 00:03:18,809 Speaker 2: You can 62 00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:21,589 Speaker 2: Just add a couple of quick points. But a caution, 63 00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:25,380 Speaker 2: don't reach out to the interview panel. You could perhaps 64 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:28,059 Speaker 2: add them on LinkedIn with a note saying thanks, but 65 00:03:28,059 --> 00:03:31,940 Speaker 2: that's all. Again, I'd be a bit cautious about that. 66 00:03:32,270 --> 00:03:37,699 Speaker 2: Not necessarily in every case, the right course of action. 67 00:03:37,910 --> 00:03:40,910 Speaker 2: So weigh that up. The hiring manager recruiter is your 68 00:03:40,910 --> 00:03:43,389 Speaker 2: contact and who is there to assist you. You can 69 00:03:43,389 --> 00:03:46,509 Speaker 2: ask them to pass on your thanks to the panel. 70 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: They are really good pieces of advice. I've got a 71 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: few more. Make sure that you wait for the agreed 72 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,990 Speaker 1: time frame. If you've had a conversation in the interview, 73 00:03:56,039 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: or if the hiring manager has said, for example, we'll 74 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,509 Speaker 1: send you an email within a couple of weeks with 75 00:04:01,509 --> 00:04:05,110 Speaker 1: next steps. Wait a couple of weeks. Don't be pushy 76 00:04:05,110 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: 5 days later saying, hey, just wondering what the next 77 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,630 Speaker 1: steps were. Don't do that. Wait the agreed amount of time. 78 00:04:11,886 --> 00:04:16,455 Speaker 1: And then, if you haven't heard back, wait another 5 days. 79 00:04:16,705 --> 00:04:19,186 Speaker 1: Don't kind of say, hello, it has now been 2 weeks, 80 00:04:19,226 --> 00:04:20,466 Speaker 1: and you said it would be 2 weeks, and I 81 00:04:20,466 --> 00:04:22,665 Speaker 1: have not heard from you. Don't be that person. Wait 82 00:04:22,665 --> 00:04:25,626 Speaker 1: another week, be a little bit more casual, a little 83 00:04:25,626 --> 00:04:28,746 Speaker 1: bit less desperate. It's a bit like dating, folks. If 84 00:04:28,746 --> 00:04:31,544 Speaker 1: you don't hear back in the agreed time frame, then 85 00:04:31,545 --> 00:04:34,105 Speaker 1: wait another 5 days, and you could send an email 86 00:04:34,105 --> 00:04:36,335 Speaker 1: that's something like, Dear Helen, I 87 00:04:36,380 --> 00:04:39,481 Speaker 1: I wanted to follow up on my interview on Tuesday 88 00:04:39,481 --> 00:04:42,171 Speaker 1: of 4 weeks ago. I wondered if you had any 89 00:04:42,171 --> 00:04:44,532 Speaker 1: updates you might be able to share. I'm so excited 90 00:04:44,532 --> 00:04:47,312 Speaker 1: by the opportunity to work with you at Future Women. 91 00:04:47,532 --> 00:04:50,122 Speaker 1: Please let me know if you have any other questions. 92 00:04:50,332 --> 00:04:51,861 Speaker 2: And one thing to add there is that if it's 93 00:04:51,861 --> 00:04:54,851 Speaker 2: a big organisation, if it's a Commonwealth Bank or Qantas, 94 00:04:55,002 --> 00:04:57,291 Speaker 2: there's a really big organisation, they think they're gonna get 95 00:04:57,291 --> 00:05:00,131 Speaker 2: back to you in 5 days. They're big organisations. They 96 00:05:00,130 --> 00:05:00,842 Speaker 2: just get, 97 00:05:01,470 --> 00:05:05,390 Speaker 2: Delayed. It's really common for big organisations to, for the 98 00:05:05,390 --> 00:05:08,579 Speaker 2: time to blow out. So, yeah, if the time's blowing out, 99 00:05:08,769 --> 00:05:11,549 Speaker 2: don't beat yourself up about it. It's, it can just 100 00:05:11,549 --> 00:05:14,549 Speaker 2: be the structures of organisations that have a lot of processes. 101 00:05:14,750 --> 00:05:17,750 Speaker 2: If it's a small organisation and super small, it could 102 00:05:17,750 --> 00:05:20,869 Speaker 2: just forget to call you or contact you. You didn't 103 00:05:20,869 --> 00:05:22,809 Speaker 2: get the job and they forget to tell you. So again, you, 104 00:05:23,019 --> 00:05:24,070 Speaker 2: you can send that. 105 00:05:24,519 --> 00:05:28,369 Speaker 2: Um, politely worded email going hello, just wondering what's going on. 106 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,238 Speaker 1: And if you've clicked onto this episode to have a 107 00:05:31,238 --> 00:05:34,469 Speaker 1: listen because you are currently sitting there waiting to hear 108 00:05:34,470 --> 00:05:36,229 Speaker 1: back after a job interview. 109 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:40,140 Speaker 1: Be patient. Just remember that there are so many different 110 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:44,380 Speaker 1: reasons that a delay might be taking place. It doesn't 111 00:05:44,380 --> 00:05:47,130 Speaker 1: mean you didn't get the job. Do not assume that. 112 00:05:47,220 --> 00:05:51,049 Speaker 1: There are lots of different reasons that delay recruitment periods. 113 00:05:51,260 --> 00:05:54,450 Speaker 1: So remember that interviews might still be in progress. Maybe 114 00:05:54,450 --> 00:05:56,380 Speaker 1: you were the first cab off the rank and this 115 00:05:56,380 --> 00:05:58,419 Speaker 1: is a competitive role and they're talking to a whole 116 00:05:58,420 --> 00:05:59,140 Speaker 1: bunch of people. 117 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 1: Remember that personal disruptions happen to those who are hiring 118 00:06:02,799 --> 00:06:05,399 Speaker 1: as well as those who might be hired. So maybe 119 00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: someone's needed to take unexpected leave and they're a key 120 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,230 Speaker 1: decision maker in this process. 121 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,549 Speaker 2: It does sound like dating about now. It really does. Yeah, 122 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:14,670 Speaker 2: my mum died or my 123 00:06:14,670 --> 00:06:17,109 Speaker 1: cat died. I know, and I would say in dating, 124 00:06:17,230 --> 00:06:18,589 Speaker 1: if they don't get back in touch with you in 125 00:06:18,589 --> 00:06:22,820 Speaker 1: a few days, strike them off, cut them off the list. organisations, however, 126 00:06:22,988 --> 00:06:25,500 Speaker 1: are different. This is about work, it's not about love. 127 00:06:25,910 --> 00:06:29,428 Speaker 1: So capacity is relevant. Think about the fact that an 128 00:06:29,428 --> 00:06:32,269 Speaker 1: organisation might be running low on resources. The search could 129 00:06:32,269 --> 00:06:34,750 Speaker 1: just have been paused. This is something that's happened in 130 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:37,070 Speaker 1: my working life, where we've been looking for a role. 131 00:06:37,445 --> 00:06:41,125 Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, there's been a different resignation, or 132 00:06:41,125 --> 00:06:44,364 Speaker 1: there's been a change in funding availability, or there's been 133 00:06:44,363 --> 00:06:47,765 Speaker 1: a process question. In government, there's a million different things 134 00:06:47,765 --> 00:06:50,845 Speaker 1: that can intervene in terms of government and ministerial priorities 135 00:06:50,845 --> 00:06:53,725 Speaker 1: that affect the whole public service, and often something will 136 00:06:53,725 --> 00:06:57,475 Speaker 1: just be paused, and they haven't got around to updating you, 137 00:06:57,605 --> 00:06:59,964 Speaker 1: or they're hoping that things will resolve quickly and they'll 138 00:06:59,964 --> 00:07:02,765 Speaker 1: get back to you soon enough. That doesn't mean it's 139 00:07:02,765 --> 00:07:03,445 Speaker 1: anything personal. 140 00:07:04,170 --> 00:07:08,089 Speaker 2: Can you send a second follow-up? So if you followed 141 00:07:08,089 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: up and you don't hear back, continue to be patient. 142 00:07:10,609 --> 00:07:13,399 Speaker 2: Wait at least 5 to 10 business days between emails. 143 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:16,010 Speaker 2: If you send more than 1 follow-up and several weeks 144 00:07:16,010 --> 00:07:19,269 Speaker 2: have passed, it's OK to check if there is another 145 00:07:19,269 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: person you can chase in case you have the wrong contact. 146 00:07:23,369 --> 00:07:26,929 Speaker 2: Most organisations are completely OK with that. They do understand 147 00:07:26,929 --> 00:07:28,970 Speaker 2: that this is a big thing for you, that if 148 00:07:28,970 --> 00:07:31,450 Speaker 2: you're waiting on a job, it is highly disruptive to 149 00:07:31,450 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 2: not know one way or another. 150 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,519 Speaker 2: Help, I made a mistake in the interview. Interviews are stressful. 151 00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: We all make 152 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: mistakes. Yes. The number of times I have had a 153 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,559 Speaker 1: friend call me in tears after an interview saying that 154 00:07:43,559 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 1: they'd blown it or they'd done something wrong. I think 155 00:07:46,239 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: the first thing to do is to try and take 156 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: a step back, pause for a moment. 157 00:07:52,390 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: And question yourself if you are being overly critical, or 158 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: if you actually did make a mistake, because if you're 159 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,109 Speaker 1: just having a kind of general worried response that's driven 160 00:08:03,109 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: from an anxiety because you're excited about this job, there's 161 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: no reason to do anything about that. It's probably. 162 00:08:08,570 --> 00:08:11,359 Speaker 1: In your head, I bet you were great. However, if 163 00:08:11,359 --> 00:08:14,059 Speaker 1: you can think of a particular instance, and you can 164 00:08:14,059 --> 00:08:16,839 Speaker 1: name when it was when you were really unhappy about 165 00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:19,839 Speaker 1: what you said, or you were unable to answer something 166 00:08:19,839 --> 00:08:22,149 Speaker 1: in particular, or that you walked out of that interview 167 00:08:22,149 --> 00:08:26,119 Speaker 1: and you know it just didn't go well, then there's 168 00:08:26,119 --> 00:08:28,519 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with sending an email. I think sending an 169 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:32,239 Speaker 1: email to clarify, uh, trying to make up for that 170 00:08:32,239 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: potential make or break mistake or provide additional information. 171 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:38,739 Speaker 1: It is a really good thing to do. If you 172 00:08:38,739 --> 00:08:41,908 Speaker 1: are going to send that email though, make sure it's good. 173 00:08:42,189 --> 00:08:44,869 Speaker 1: Make sure it's concise and to the point, make sure 174 00:08:44,869 --> 00:08:48,059 Speaker 1: it is polite and thank them for their time and consideration, 175 00:08:48,388 --> 00:08:51,749 Speaker 1: and flesh out your answer without writing us a giant 176 00:08:51,749 --> 00:08:52,929 Speaker 1: long essay. We won't read 177 00:08:52,929 --> 00:08:53,189 Speaker 2: it. 178 00:08:54,429 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: No, we won't read it. We won't read. Keep it short. 179 00:08:56,419 --> 00:08:57,890 Speaker 2: Keep it short. Um, but it is a really good 180 00:08:57,890 --> 00:08:59,979 Speaker 2: opportunity and a thank you note to say, um, I 181 00:08:59,979 --> 00:09:02,340 Speaker 2: don't feel I fully answered the question about X and Y, 182 00:09:02,419 --> 00:09:05,179 Speaker 2: and I'd just like to clarify. So don't hesitate doing that. 183 00:09:05,340 --> 00:09:08,189 Speaker 2: Keep it concise, thank them for the time and their consideration, 184 00:09:08,619 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: and then cross fingers. 185 00:09:10,979 --> 00:09:14,210 Speaker 1: And if you're unsuccessful, and I'm sure you won't be, 186 00:09:14,299 --> 00:09:15,739 Speaker 1: but if you are unsuccessful, 187 00:09:16,539 --> 00:09:19,700 Speaker 1: I think all of our immediate instinct is to just 188 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,699 Speaker 1: run away and hate that organisation, and go to someone 189 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:24,739 Speaker 1: we love and care about who will always be on 190 00:09:24,739 --> 00:09:26,969 Speaker 1: our side and bitch about them as long as we can, 191 00:09:27,179 --> 00:09:29,549 Speaker 1: and you should totally do that. But you should also 192 00:09:29,549 --> 00:09:32,580 Speaker 1: ask for some feedback. It's really hard to ask for 193 00:09:32,580 --> 00:09:36,539 Speaker 1: feedback when you feel like you've been rejected, but feedback 194 00:09:36,539 --> 00:09:37,500 Speaker 1: is invaluable. 195 00:09:37,909 --> 00:09:40,030 Speaker 1: It will help you improve your interviewing skills for the 196 00:09:40,030 --> 00:09:43,098 Speaker 1: next time. It will help you to solidify your relationship 197 00:09:43,099 --> 00:09:45,709 Speaker 1: with that hiring manager, in case they are hiring other 198 00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:48,830 Speaker 1: positions in the future. And it might even just put 199 00:09:48,830 --> 00:09:51,829 Speaker 1: your mind at ease. If you don't know the reason 200 00:09:51,830 --> 00:09:54,070 Speaker 1: someone said no, then your brain can take you to 201 00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:56,030 Speaker 1: all sorts of silly places. But 202 00:09:56,195 --> 00:09:58,625 Speaker 1: And it will just be, oh, there was someone who 203 00:09:58,625 --> 00:10:01,025 Speaker 1: had 5 years more experience, and they were a better 204 00:10:01,025 --> 00:10:03,065 Speaker 1: fit for the role as a result, but we'd love 205 00:10:03,065 --> 00:10:04,184 Speaker 1: to have you back another time. 206 00:10:04,424 --> 00:10:06,784 Speaker 2: And quite often it's line ball, you know, quite often 207 00:10:06,784 --> 00:10:09,625 Speaker 2: it's like, oh, this person's great at this, this, this 208 00:10:09,625 --> 00:10:12,304 Speaker 2: person's great at that. If that's the case, and you've 209 00:10:12,304 --> 00:10:15,424 Speaker 2: just missed out on the flip of a coin, it's 210 00:10:15,424 --> 00:10:18,025 Speaker 2: good to know because you are closer to getting your 211 00:10:18,025 --> 00:10:18,534 Speaker 2: next job. 212 00:10:20,739 --> 00:10:24,900 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is produced by Future Women's Jobs Academy. To apply 213 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:30,820 Speaker 1: to join, head to jobsacademy.uwomen.com or go to Futurewomen.com to 214 00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:32,770 Speaker 1: become a future women member today.