1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:03,690 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is brought to you by Future Women's Jobs Academy. 2 00:00:04,079 --> 00:00:07,230 Speaker 1: Getting back to work after a career break isn't easy. 3 00:00:07,510 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: Future Women's Jobs Academy is a free online programme supported 4 00:00:11,319 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: by the Australian government. It's proven to increase confidence and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:22,850 Speaker 1: connect women with meaningful and flexible jobs. Apply today at jobsacademy.uwomen.com. 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,229 Speaker 1: We'll support you to find the right job and thrive. 7 00:00:29,159 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: Nothing makes a person go weak at the knees quite 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,449 Speaker 1: like a job interview. Enter shortlisted. A podcast by future 9 00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:40,069 Speaker 1: women where Helen McCabe and I hold your virtual hand, 10 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: walking with you every step of the way right to 11 00:00:43,279 --> 00:00:46,799 Speaker 1: the interview door and straight onto the shortlist. 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,318 Speaker 1: In this episode, we tackle the common interview question, where 13 00:00:51,319 --> 00:00:55,159 Speaker 1: do you see yourself in 5 years? This question is 14 00:00:55,159 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: actually employer code for assessing your career ambitions, your expectations 15 00:01:00,279 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 1: for progression, and how long you might stay with the organisation. 16 00:01:05,279 --> 00:01:10,169 Speaker 1: Let's learn how to answer honestly while also answering strategically. 17 00:01:13,029 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 2: Jamila, this is my favourite episode because it's super practical. 18 00:01:17,069 --> 00:01:19,989 Speaker 1: I cannot think of a worse question. So when you're 19 00:01:19,989 --> 00:01:22,830 Speaker 1: in a job interview and someone asks you that question, 20 00:01:22,849 --> 00:01:26,110 Speaker 1: and it comes up a lot, right? I think employers 21 00:01:26,110 --> 00:01:29,550 Speaker 1: must choose 5 years to make it particularly difficult. Because 22 00:01:29,550 --> 00:01:31,830 Speaker 1: if it was 1 year or 2 years, the answer 23 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:34,860 Speaker 1: is working with your organisation and thriving and 24 00:01:35,059 --> 00:01:38,300 Speaker 1: Creating great things and changing the world together, right? If 25 00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:41,370 Speaker 1: it's 10 years, it's quite feasible for you to say, 26 00:01:41,699 --> 00:01:44,730 Speaker 1: I wanna continue this career, whether it's here or elsewhere, 27 00:01:44,819 --> 00:01:46,849 Speaker 1: and be really bold about what you want to achieve 28 00:01:46,849 --> 00:01:49,379 Speaker 1: in a decade. They're not expecting you necessarily to still 29 00:01:49,379 --> 00:01:52,300 Speaker 1: be there in 10 years. But 5 years, 5 years 30 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:53,089 Speaker 1: is hard. 31 00:01:53,220 --> 00:01:56,139 Speaker 2: But it's a good question. So why do interviewers ask 32 00:01:56,139 --> 00:01:56,779 Speaker 2: this question? 33 00:01:57,430 --> 00:02:01,779 Speaker 1: Well, according to an HR industry benchmark survey from 2021, 34 00:02:02,029 --> 00:02:07,389 Speaker 1: it takes an average Australian employer $23,000 worth of their 35 00:02:07,389 --> 00:02:10,820 Speaker 1: time to hire a new employee. So that's a combination 36 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:12,190 Speaker 1: of recruitment costs, 37 00:02:12,354 --> 00:02:16,244 Speaker 1: And suffering without someone for a period of time, and 38 00:02:16,244 --> 00:02:18,725 Speaker 1: of course, the time it takes for different people to 39 00:02:18,725 --> 00:02:21,285 Speaker 1: spend with that person to hire them and then to 40 00:02:21,285 --> 00:02:25,163 Speaker 1: train them. It is expensive, and that figure has doubled 41 00:02:25,163 --> 00:02:28,285 Speaker 1: from 2020 to 2021. So, 42 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: This stuff is not even about salary and super. It 43 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,910 Speaker 1: costs an employer money to hire. And at the moment, 44 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: you're at that hiring process. They are spending the money 45 00:02:38,679 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: on you. They don't want to have to spend that 46 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,110 Speaker 1: money again in a couple of years when you leave, 47 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,669 Speaker 1: and they have to hire someone else. 48 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: OK, but what they're really saying is, how committed are 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 2: you to your career, how committed are you to the company? 50 00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:55,250 Speaker 2: How much do you understand about your career progression, and 51 00:02:55,250 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: how driven are you? 52 00:02:57,070 --> 00:02:59,978 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a question about who 53 00:02:59,979 --> 00:03:02,779 Speaker 1: you want to be, the kind of employee you're going 54 00:03:02,779 --> 00:03:05,220 Speaker 1: to be, and whether or not you're going to be 55 00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:08,329 Speaker 1: loyal to this organisation, whether or not you're going to 56 00:03:08,740 --> 00:03:11,020 Speaker 1: stick around for the long term. And if you see 57 00:03:11,020 --> 00:03:15,100 Speaker 1: your career progression happening within that organisation, that says, well, 58 00:03:15,179 --> 00:03:17,270 Speaker 1: this is someone we should invest in. This is someone 59 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:19,300 Speaker 1: we should take time to train. This is someone we 60 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:22,539 Speaker 1: should take an interest in their career development, because their 61 00:03:22,538 --> 00:03:26,460 Speaker 1: contribution back to our organisation is going to be significant. 62 00:03:26,949 --> 00:03:29,698 Speaker 1: So if you're preparing to answer a question like this one, 63 00:03:29,740 --> 00:03:32,809 Speaker 1: and some variation of this question will definitely come up, 64 00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:36,410 Speaker 1: I promise you, there are a few things to keep 65 00:03:36,410 --> 00:03:40,020 Speaker 1: in mind. The first is those 4 questions Helen just 66 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:43,410 Speaker 1: set out, which is what the employer is really interested in, 67 00:03:43,740 --> 00:03:46,539 Speaker 1: which is how committed are you to your career, to 68 00:03:46,539 --> 00:03:49,339 Speaker 1: the company, what you know about your career progression, and 69 00:03:49,339 --> 00:03:50,649 Speaker 1: how driven you are. 70 00:03:51,179 --> 00:03:54,330 Speaker 1: What you should consider in coming up with your answer 71 00:03:54,330 --> 00:03:56,899 Speaker 1: are a couple of other things. You should think about 72 00:03:56,899 --> 00:04:00,580 Speaker 1: what your work-related goals are, what your ambitions are, what 73 00:04:00,580 --> 00:04:03,660 Speaker 1: your desired training is, what are you hoping to get 74 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:06,350 Speaker 1: out of working at this organisation? What are you hoping 75 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:07,820 Speaker 1: to get out of it that is not just a 76 00:04:07,820 --> 00:04:10,339 Speaker 1: salary for you to take home and live on? What 77 00:04:10,339 --> 00:04:13,740 Speaker 1: more do you want? I think it's a chance to 78 00:04:13,740 --> 00:04:16,419 Speaker 1: reflect in advance, hopefully, not in the room, of being 79 00:04:16,420 --> 00:04:17,380 Speaker 1: asked this question. 80 00:04:17,850 --> 00:04:20,558 Speaker 1: On the kind of positions that you do see yourself 81 00:04:20,559 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 1: occupying in the future. Are you interested in a leadership role? 82 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:26,890 Speaker 1: Would you like to stay more focused on the technical 83 00:04:26,890 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: aspects of your work? And if so, do you need 84 00:04:28,799 --> 00:04:31,649 Speaker 1: more training? Is that something you want? If you can 85 00:04:31,649 --> 00:04:35,649 Speaker 1: provide some kind of answer to this question that isn't just, Oh, 86 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,890 Speaker 1: I don't know, which is the answer I've been given 87 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:40,299 Speaker 1: in interviews more times than I can count, that's a 88 00:04:40,299 --> 00:04:40,850 Speaker 1: really good thing. 89 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,119 Speaker 2: And look, I think it is a super hard question, 90 00:04:43,250 --> 00:04:45,079 Speaker 2: so if I was to ask you that question right now, 91 00:04:45,290 --> 00:04:47,570 Speaker 2: you would struggle with it, right? It actually doesn't matter 92 00:04:47,570 --> 00:04:49,470 Speaker 2: whether you're answering that question as a 20 year old, 93 00:04:49,488 --> 00:04:53,290 Speaker 2: a 30-year-old or a 50-year-old, it does get hard when 94 00:04:53,290 --> 00:04:54,690 Speaker 2: you're put on the spot, so. 95 00:04:55,959 --> 00:05:01,630 Speaker 2: What do you do when you're asked? Well, start your 96 00:05:01,630 --> 00:05:06,289 Speaker 2: answer with one or two key goals. Next, dive into 97 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:10,549 Speaker 2: how and why you will have done these things and 98 00:05:10,549 --> 00:05:14,859 Speaker 2: finish with your ambitions beyond the 5 years. So, 99 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: Break that down. You start with one or two key goals. 100 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,589 Speaker 1: Let's take my life as a person who is ambitious 101 00:05:22,589 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: to enter the public service. I want to enter the 102 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,540 Speaker 1: Commonwealth Public Service, and previously I've been in the private sector. 103 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: So I might start my answer, as Helen's mentioned, with 104 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: some key goals. Well, over the next 5 years, I'm 105 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,559 Speaker 1: really hoping to become someone who is accomplished and adept 106 00:05:38,559 --> 00:05:38,899 Speaker 1: in 107 00:05:38,945 --> 00:05:42,415 Speaker 1: Insert X area of public policy. I want to have 108 00:05:42,415 --> 00:05:45,894 Speaker 1: a really firm grasp of the issues, and I wanna 109 00:05:45,894 --> 00:05:49,015 Speaker 1: understand how the public service works. I wanna understand the 110 00:05:49,015 --> 00:05:51,565 Speaker 1: processes and the way things are done in this space. 111 00:05:51,654 --> 00:05:53,494 Speaker 1: And I know that's going to take me a little 112 00:05:53,494 --> 00:05:55,534 Speaker 1: bit of time, but I would hope that in 5 years, 113 00:05:55,644 --> 00:05:59,214 Speaker 1: I am really confident, uh, and really capable, as if 114 00:05:59,214 --> 00:06:02,325 Speaker 1: I'm someone who'd spent my entire career in the public service. 115 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,809 Speaker 2: So to do that, I might undertake some extra study, 116 00:06:05,980 --> 00:06:10,529 Speaker 2: or I might offer to go into a mentoring programme, 117 00:06:10,859 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 2: or I might be open to moving countries or moving cities. 118 00:06:15,779 --> 00:06:18,059 Speaker 2: So they're the sorts of things to kind of illustrate 119 00:06:18,059 --> 00:06:20,500 Speaker 2: that you've got a bit of a plan around what 120 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,250 Speaker 2: comes next, and then you finish with your ambitions. So, 121 00:06:23,459 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: you wanna be the secretary of Prime Minister and Cabinet, right? 122 00:06:27,649 --> 00:06:30,739 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a very modest ambition, folks. Uh, yes, 123 00:06:30,859 --> 00:06:32,209 Speaker 1: I think that's right. So, 124 00:06:32,345 --> 00:06:35,174 Speaker 1: But I think you should keep your ambition relatively close 125 00:06:35,174 --> 00:06:37,244 Speaker 1: to where you are. I think going to the, you know, 126 00:06:37,415 --> 00:06:41,243 Speaker 1: the end career goal, unless you are close to it already, 127 00:06:41,415 --> 00:06:44,825 Speaker 1: can be a little bit presumptive. Oh, really? So this 128 00:06:44,825 --> 00:06:48,454 Speaker 1: is where folks, different interviewers think different things. I, I 129 00:06:48,454 --> 00:06:51,054 Speaker 1: feel like if I'm interviewing someone who is, say, in 130 00:06:51,053 --> 00:06:54,684 Speaker 1: their early 30s and who is moving into a new industry, 131 00:06:54,934 --> 00:06:57,774 Speaker 1: and they're looking at a mid-level job, and they tell 132 00:06:57,774 --> 00:07:00,164 Speaker 1: me they want to run the whole country in 5 years, 133 00:07:00,295 --> 00:07:01,855 Speaker 1: I'm gonna raise my eyebrows. 134 00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:05,690 Speaker 2: OK, so we're not really disagreeing here, but I do 135 00:07:05,850 --> 00:07:08,820 Speaker 2: encourage people who have a clear idea that they want 136 00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:10,459 Speaker 2: to be in a senior leadership role by the time 137 00:07:10,459 --> 00:07:13,980 Speaker 2: they're 35, or whatever the ambition is actually to say it. 138 00:07:14,059 --> 00:07:15,459 Speaker 2: And the reason why I encourage you to say it 139 00:07:15,459 --> 00:07:19,450 Speaker 2: is because when it's actually out there, it then just, um, 140 00:07:19,459 --> 00:07:23,540 Speaker 2: lodges in the brain of the organisation or the, or 141 00:07:23,540 --> 00:07:27,779 Speaker 2: the person that's hired you. I now know that you 142 00:07:27,779 --> 00:07:30,579 Speaker 2: want a senior leadership position in this organisation, and it's 143 00:07:30,579 --> 00:07:31,500 Speaker 2: just there. So, 144 00:07:31,929 --> 00:07:36,010 Speaker 2: Every time a promotion comes up or there's an opportunity 145 00:07:36,010 --> 00:07:38,630 Speaker 2: for training, I know that you'll want to do it, 146 00:07:38,690 --> 00:07:40,730 Speaker 2: because that's where you want to get to, so I, 147 00:07:40,769 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: I 100% encourage people to, 148 00:07:43,279 --> 00:07:48,350 Speaker 2: If they've got an ambitious ambition to tell me about it. Now, 149 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,869 Speaker 2: where it goes wrong is if that looks wildly unattainable. So, 150 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,359 Speaker 2: and I think that's kind of what you were, you 151 00:07:54,359 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: were going to. Like, the, the absurd, like, oh, well, I'm, 152 00:07:57,679 --> 00:08:00,519 Speaker 2: I'm going to work in the public service. I'm first 153 00:08:00,519 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: gonna start at this level, and then I'm gonna be 154 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: at that level. And I, you know, I will then 155 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,470 Speaker 2: move into a minister's office and then I'll run for parliament, 156 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: because what I really 157 00:08:07,204 --> 00:08:10,355 Speaker 2: I want to be is Prime Minister, that will be 158 00:08:10,355 --> 00:08:13,515 Speaker 2: fun to hear. And I will think that you have 159 00:08:13,515 --> 00:08:16,075 Speaker 2: no idea what you're talking about because it's not that 160 00:08:16,075 --> 00:08:18,595 Speaker 2: easy just to become Prime Minister. And, and I have 161 00:08:18,595 --> 00:08:20,595 Speaker 2: had some of those interviews where I've had kind of 162 00:08:20,595 --> 00:08:22,184 Speaker 2: amusing like ambitions. Yeah, 163 00:08:22,195 --> 00:08:24,674 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah. So I think, uh, if you 164 00:08:24,674 --> 00:08:28,475 Speaker 1: squish both Helen and my advice together, it's probably be bold, 165 00:08:28,565 --> 00:08:31,234 Speaker 1: but be realistic, right? So 166 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:34,449 Speaker 1: Don't be completely outlandish about where you want to go 167 00:08:34,450 --> 00:08:36,820 Speaker 1: and what you wanna do, but do be bold, be confident. 168 00:08:36,950 --> 00:08:39,710 Speaker 1: Say where you would like to be. And that aligns 169 00:08:39,710 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: with what Seek.com recommends. They also say that you should 170 00:08:43,309 --> 00:08:46,859 Speaker 1: think about where you would fit in this organisation. So, yes, 171 00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:49,909 Speaker 1: you're going into job A, and you want to do 172 00:08:49,909 --> 00:08:52,830 Speaker 1: job A really well for 5 years or so, but 173 00:08:52,830 --> 00:08:55,229 Speaker 1: what would job be in this organisation? 174 00:08:55,744 --> 00:08:58,145 Speaker 1: Because I think an employer likes to see that not 175 00:08:58,145 --> 00:09:00,184 Speaker 1: only do you want to be part of their organisation, 176 00:09:00,265 --> 00:09:05,255 Speaker 1: but you've got ambitions to progress within their organisation. Recall 177 00:09:05,255 --> 00:09:07,304 Speaker 1: everybody that it costs a lot of money to hire 178 00:09:07,304 --> 00:09:09,344 Speaker 1: new people, so it's much nicer to be able to 179 00:09:09,344 --> 00:09:13,825 Speaker 1: hire internally. And while you've got that opportunity to talk 180 00:09:13,825 --> 00:09:15,554 Speaker 1: about where you see yourself in the next 5 years, 181 00:09:15,664 --> 00:09:18,064 Speaker 1: talk about the skills that you want to develop. Talk 182 00:09:18,065 --> 00:09:19,304 Speaker 1: about what you want to learn. 183 00:09:19,719 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: Uh, focus on other career goals like qualifications and show 184 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: enthusiasm for the opportunity to be able to talk about 185 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,590 Speaker 1: and speak about where you do see yourself in 5 years. 186 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely talk about that organisation and your ambition inside 187 00:09:34,359 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 2: that organisation. That, that's a big do. Don't share unrelated 188 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: dreams about studying or outlandish jobs. 189 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,739 Speaker 1: See example A being Prime Minister. 190 00:09:45,059 --> 00:09:48,900 Speaker 2: Um, make jokes about taking the interviewer's job. Oh 191 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:52,140 Speaker 1: yes, I've had that happen. I've had that happen more 192 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:54,780 Speaker 1: than once, and it's not funny. I don't want you 193 00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:55,689 Speaker 1: to take my job. Go 194 00:09:55,690 --> 00:10:00,419 Speaker 2: away. Well, I just thought, you can't possibly understand what 195 00:10:00,419 --> 00:10:00,859 Speaker 2: I do. 196 00:10:01,599 --> 00:10:03,909 Speaker 2: So you might not want it if you knew what 197 00:10:03,909 --> 00:10:08,780 Speaker 2: my job was. Display uncertainty or a lack of ambition, 198 00:10:08,789 --> 00:10:10,539 Speaker 2: and I think that's a really good point. 199 00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:14,429 Speaker 2: I mean, it's very easy for women to do, oh, 200 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,070 Speaker 2: I don't really know, and I'm just happy doing whatever, 201 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: because we're taught to say that. Wrong answer, uncertainty, be 202 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: sure about what you can do for the organisation and 203 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:24,510 Speaker 2: where you'd like to go to. 204 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,510 Speaker 1: I would say my one exception to that is if 205 00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: you are just starting out in your career, um, if 206 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: you're in your first few years in the workforce, which 207 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,909 Speaker 1: is probably not most of you listening to this podcast, 208 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: but nonetheless, if you're in your first few years in 209 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,478 Speaker 1: the workforce, don't show lack of ambition. 210 00:10:40,979 --> 00:10:43,859 Speaker 1: But I think it's all right, particularly when you're young, 211 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:44,590 Speaker 1: to say, 212 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: If I'm honest, I don't really know what I wanna 213 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,189 Speaker 1: do yet. I haven't had enough time actually in the workforce, 214 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,189 Speaker 1: but all of the aspects of this role sound exciting 215 00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:58,919 Speaker 1: and motivating. And so, I wanna try that out, and 216 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:00,718 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna help me figure out what I 217 00:11:00,719 --> 00:11:02,988 Speaker 1: wanna do in the longer term. I think that's OK 218 00:11:02,989 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: if you're at the beginning of your career. What if 219 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:05,119 Speaker 1: you're 40? 220 00:11:06,119 --> 00:11:07,479 Speaker 1: I think you gotta have a sense of where you 221 00:11:07,479 --> 00:11:10,090 Speaker 1: wanna go, or at least what you want to try. 222 00:11:10,359 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: If you're in your 40s and you're at a mid-career 223 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,109 Speaker 1: kind of point, and you're coming into a job interview, 224 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,598 Speaker 1: and I say, Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 225 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,799 Speaker 1: And you say, Oh, look, I, I mean, I, I don't, 226 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,929 Speaker 1: I don't really know. I kind of, I don't really 227 00:11:23,929 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: think about that sort of stuff. I'm not really an 228 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,549 Speaker 1: ambitious kind of person. I, 229 00:11:27,820 --> 00:11:29,359 Speaker 1: I just sort of want to do my job and, 230 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,669 Speaker 1: and get paid, you know, that doesn't light me on fire, 231 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,789 Speaker 1: that doesn't make me wanna work with you every day. 232 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,229 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you have to want the top job 233 00:11:37,229 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: or aspire to 7 promotions, of course you don't, but. 234 00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:44,150 Speaker 1: You do want to interview someone who aspires to get 235 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: better at doing their job, that aspires to become more 236 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: accomplished and more creative and more effective at what they do. 237 00:11:51,969 --> 00:11:54,770 Speaker 1: You don't have to aspire to promotion after promotion after promotion. 238 00:11:54,849 --> 00:11:58,010 Speaker 1: That's not what everyone wants. But I think aspiring to 239 00:11:58,450 --> 00:12:00,929 Speaker 1: high quality work, I want to hear that. Yeah, 240 00:12:01,020 --> 00:12:02,988 Speaker 2: and I think you make a really good point. Like, um, 241 00:12:03,049 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: I was about to say, what if you're 60? Well, 242 00:12:05,010 --> 00:12:07,609 Speaker 2: 40 or 60 doesn't really make any difference. You say 243 00:12:07,609 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 2: something like, 244 00:12:09,059 --> 00:12:12,409 Speaker 2: I really like this job. I really like this type 245 00:12:12,409 --> 00:12:16,340 Speaker 2: of work. I no longer hold ambitions to run the company. 246 00:12:16,429 --> 00:12:18,858 Speaker 2: I might have done at some point in my life, 247 00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:23,340 Speaker 2: but my ambition today is to work with great people 248 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:29,380 Speaker 2: in a company that I enjoy working for, whose values align, 249 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:31,919 Speaker 2: and I just want to do good work for as 250 00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:34,949 Speaker 2: many hours that I'm in the building or logged on. 251 00:12:35,229 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: And that's a good enough answer. 252 00:12:37,849 --> 00:12:40,979 Speaker 1: Let's go through some other just sort of quickfire tips 253 00:12:40,979 --> 00:12:43,209 Speaker 1: for answering this question, because it is one I think 254 00:12:43,210 --> 00:12:46,409 Speaker 1: that so many people struggle with and possibly because the 255 00:12:46,409 --> 00:12:48,929 Speaker 1: answer can be so broad, there are so many options 256 00:12:48,929 --> 00:12:50,210 Speaker 1: for where you want to go. 257 00:12:50,830 --> 00:12:53,150 Speaker 1: Do not feel like you have to name a specific 258 00:12:53,150 --> 00:12:55,358 Speaker 1: job or position when you say where you want to 259 00:12:55,359 --> 00:12:56,909 Speaker 1: be in 5 years. You don't have to say, I 260 00:12:56,909 --> 00:12:59,189 Speaker 1: want that job at that level in that company or 261 00:12:59,190 --> 00:13:01,069 Speaker 1: in this company. You don't have to do that. You 262 00:13:01,070 --> 00:13:04,630 Speaker 1: can speak very broadly. I suspect something that might be 263 00:13:04,630 --> 00:13:07,390 Speaker 1: useful for a lot of you is having a look 264 00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:11,150 Speaker 1: at Simon Sinek's golden circle theory. Oh, that sounds really 265 00:13:11,150 --> 00:13:14,699 Speaker 1: fancy and complicated. It's not. You can watch it on YouTube. 266 00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:17,549 Speaker 1: It's possibly one of the most watched TED Talks of 267 00:13:17,549 --> 00:13:19,569 Speaker 1: all times. And I think it's a really 268 00:13:19,969 --> 00:13:24,890 Speaker 1: Useful framework. It's intended for organisations that want to sell 269 00:13:24,890 --> 00:13:28,489 Speaker 1: or brand themselves effectively. And I think it applies to 270 00:13:28,489 --> 00:13:31,799 Speaker 1: you in saying, you want to sell yourself to this 271 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:35,010 Speaker 1: organisation and you want to brand yourself effectively. And CENEC 272 00:13:35,010 --> 00:13:37,890 Speaker 1: argues that instead of starting with how you do things 273 00:13:37,890 --> 00:13:40,409 Speaker 1: at work or what you do at work, you should 274 00:13:40,409 --> 00:13:41,650 Speaker 1: start with why you do it. 275 00:13:42,109 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: So, when you answer the question, Where do you see 276 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,039 Speaker 1: yourself in 5 years, don't talk about how, don't talk 277 00:13:48,039 --> 00:13:51,799 Speaker 1: about what. Talk about why. Say, I hope that I'll 278 00:13:51,799 --> 00:13:56,929 Speaker 1: be doing work that fulfils me and makes a contribution 279 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: to X, Y, or Z. Talk about the things that 280 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,530 Speaker 1: drive you, the reason you come to work every day, 281 00:14:02,599 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: that is beyond a salary, because you believe in the 282 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:05,799 Speaker 1: work that you're doing. 283 00:14:08,570 --> 00:14:12,690 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is produced by Future Women's Jobs Academy. To apply 284 00:14:12,690 --> 00:14:18,650 Speaker 1: to join, head to jobsacademy.uwomen.com or go to Futurewomen.com to 285 00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:20,570 Speaker 1: become a future women member today.