1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:03,690 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is brought to you by Future Women's Jobs Academy. 2 00:00:04,079 --> 00:00:07,269 Speaker 1: Getting back to work after a career break isn't easy. 3 00:00:07,510 --> 00:00:11,300 Speaker 1: Future Women's Jobs Academy is a free online programme supported 4 00:00:11,300 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: by the Australian government. It's proven to increase confidence and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: connect women with meaningful and flexible jobs. Apply today at jobsacademy.uwomen.com. 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,229 Speaker 1: We'll support you to find the right job and thrive. 7 00:00:29,170 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Nothing makes a person go weak at the knees quite 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,449 Speaker 1: like a job interview. Enter shortlisted. A podcast by future 9 00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: women where Helen McCabe and I hold your virtual hand, 10 00:00:40,330 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: walking with you every step of the way, right to 11 00:00:43,279 --> 00:00:46,810 Speaker 1: the interview door and straight onto the shortlist. 12 00:00:47,750 --> 00:00:51,069 Speaker 1: In this bonus episode, we are tackling the age old 13 00:00:51,069 --> 00:00:55,990 Speaker 1: problem of ageism. Participants in Future Women's Jobs Academy have 14 00:00:55,990 --> 00:00:58,419 Speaker 1: told us that this is something they're really worried about, 15 00:00:58,540 --> 00:01:02,029 Speaker 1: and in some cases have experienced. So how do you 16 00:01:02,029 --> 00:01:04,709 Speaker 1: respond in an interview where the employer clearly thinks your 17 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:08,059 Speaker 1: age means you're not the right culture or skills fit 18 00:01:08,269 --> 00:01:08,940 Speaker 1: for the job? 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 2: So, Jamilla, we want to explore what to do when 20 00:01:13,639 --> 00:01:18,180 Speaker 2: your interviewer is half your age and assumes you don't 21 00:01:18,180 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 2: know anything. 22 00:01:21,989 --> 00:01:25,970 Speaker 2: So, like, I hear this, yeah, all the time. 23 00:01:26,330 --> 00:01:29,750 Speaker 1: I'm laughing out of discomfort because I don't think there 24 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:34,620 Speaker 1: is anything more uncomfortable in a job interview setting than 25 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:38,069 Speaker 1: when you've got a young person who is oblivious to 26 00:01:38,069 --> 00:01:40,339 Speaker 1: the fact that they don't have a whole lot of experience, 27 00:01:40,629 --> 00:01:43,229 Speaker 1: interviewing an older person with a tonne of experience, but 28 00:01:43,230 --> 00:01:46,910 Speaker 1: not necessarily the skills or experience in that role or 29 00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:47,709 Speaker 1: industry or company. 30 00:01:48,209 --> 00:01:51,930 Speaker 1: Who is feeling frustrated and grumpy that they're being interviewed 31 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:54,930 Speaker 1: by a child, and then the child doesn't even realise 32 00:01:54,930 --> 00:01:58,610 Speaker 1: they're a child, because they're so confident and blase. But 33 00:01:58,610 --> 00:02:03,690 Speaker 1: the reality is that in a workforce where we have 34 00:02:03,690 --> 00:02:07,569 Speaker 1: an ageing population and there are more older employees in 35 00:02:07,569 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: the workforce than ever before, 36 00:02:09,569 --> 00:02:13,877 Speaker 1: Older workers now make up 34% of the Australian workforce, 37 00:02:14,169 --> 00:02:18,089 Speaker 1: but they make up 53% of discouraged people who are 38 00:02:18,089 --> 00:02:21,008 Speaker 1: looking for jobs. So often the person looking for a 39 00:02:21,008 --> 00:02:23,649 Speaker 1: job is going to be older than the person hiring 40 00:02:23,649 --> 00:02:28,319 Speaker 1: the job. And as awkward and frustrating, and perhaps even, 41 00:02:28,848 --> 00:02:32,128 Speaker 1: I don't know, messing your ego around a bit, as 42 00:02:32,127 --> 00:02:34,169 Speaker 1: much as that's the case, you've got to find a 43 00:02:34,169 --> 00:02:36,208 Speaker 1: way to get past it, cause it will often be. 44 00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:37,668 Speaker 1: What happens to you? 45 00:02:38,679 --> 00:02:41,699 Speaker 2: Can I just segue for a minute and say, I 46 00:02:41,699 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in Canberra this year and 47 00:02:44,679 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: last year talking about what an older worker. 48 00:02:48,149 --> 00:02:50,549 Speaker 1: Is, yeah, what, what defines older, so 49 00:02:51,779 --> 00:02:53,740 Speaker 2: what do you think an older worker is? How old 50 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:54,619 Speaker 2: is an older worker? 51 00:02:55,649 --> 00:02:57,729 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you don't think you've ever thrown me 52 00:02:57,729 --> 00:02:59,100 Speaker 1: under the bus quite that much. 53 00:02:59,369 --> 00:03:01,410 Speaker 2: I did in the last episode, I think. Yeah, 54 00:03:01,610 --> 00:03:03,089 Speaker 1: yeah, probably, uh. 55 00:03:03,860 --> 00:03:06,220 Speaker 1: I, I would have said over 55. 56 00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:08,389 Speaker 2: Officially it's over 45. 57 00:03:09,508 --> 00:03:10,049 Speaker 2: Whoa, 58 00:03:10,309 --> 00:03:12,300 Speaker 1: yeah, that feels close. 59 00:03:12,508 --> 00:03:16,630 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that in itself is something that needs to 60 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 2: be addressed, because if we're all going to live to 120, 61 00:03:21,070 --> 00:03:25,380 Speaker 2: being 45 is not gonna be an older worker very quickly, so. 62 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,728 Speaker 2: I think this entire episode is gonna be about reframing 63 00:03:28,899 --> 00:03:31,899 Speaker 2: ageism and what is old anyway. And I think the 64 00:03:31,899 --> 00:03:35,460 Speaker 2: starting point is, 45 is not old. So anyone who's 65 00:03:35,460 --> 00:03:39,020 Speaker 2: listening out there going, Oh, you're not old. It's completely 66 00:03:39,020 --> 00:03:43,970 Speaker 2: OK because there is a skills and labour shortage, and 67 00:03:44,580 --> 00:03:49,259 Speaker 2: organisations everywhere are now acknowledging that we need to think 68 00:03:49,259 --> 00:03:53,898 Speaker 2: about age completely differently if we're going to fill roles 69 00:03:53,899 --> 00:03:55,389 Speaker 2: in this country. And 70 00:03:55,750 --> 00:04:00,190 Speaker 2: That's an exciting development. So, with that in mind, what 71 00:04:00,190 --> 00:04:03,660 Speaker 2: do you do when your interviewer is half your age 72 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:07,750 Speaker 2: and assumes you don't know how to use Word or 73 00:04:07,750 --> 00:04:09,479 Speaker 2: a laptop or your mobile phone? 74 00:04:09,669 --> 00:04:11,309 Speaker 1: Well, I think the first thing is you need to 75 00:04:11,309 --> 00:04:15,389 Speaker 1: know your rights, because ageism is a thing, and while 76 00:04:15,389 --> 00:04:16,988 Speaker 1: you and I are going to try and combat it 77 00:04:16,988 --> 00:04:18,709 Speaker 1: really hard in this conversation, 78 00:04:19,009 --> 00:04:22,178 Speaker 1: Ageism does exist in our workplaces, not all the time. 79 00:04:22,269 --> 00:04:24,908 Speaker 1: I think you shouldn't overread into it, but it is 80 00:04:24,908 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: possible that you will meet someone who is interviewing you 81 00:04:27,359 --> 00:04:29,438 Speaker 1: who is ageist. And so I think at a really 82 00:04:29,438 --> 00:04:31,868 Speaker 1: base level, you need to make sure that you know 83 00:04:31,868 --> 00:04:35,069 Speaker 1: your rights. It is, of course, against the law to 84 00:04:35,069 --> 00:04:37,109 Speaker 1: discriminate on the basis of age during. 85 00:04:37,195 --> 00:04:41,303 Speaker 1: A recruitment process. So if you're, for example, hearing from 86 00:04:41,303 --> 00:04:44,183 Speaker 1: your interviewer that they are concerned that the role is 87 00:04:44,184 --> 00:04:47,755 Speaker 1: too junior or too senior for someone of your age, 88 00:04:48,184 --> 00:04:50,704 Speaker 1: they shouldn't be doing that. They should be asking directly 89 00:04:50,704 --> 00:04:53,385 Speaker 1: about the seniority of the position and not assuming that 90 00:04:53,385 --> 00:04:57,183 Speaker 1: your age might be an issue. If you feel uncomfortable 91 00:04:57,184 --> 00:05:00,065 Speaker 1: at any point in an interview, that there are comments 92 00:05:00,065 --> 00:05:03,825 Speaker 1: being made or questions being asked that you don't want 93 00:05:03,825 --> 00:05:04,695 Speaker 1: to answer, 94 00:05:05,209 --> 00:05:10,190 Speaker 1: I think you need to have a clear way of interrupting, intervening, saying, sorry, 95 00:05:10,359 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm not really comfortable with talking about that. I'd like 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,709 Speaker 1: to move on to, and move on to a positive. Now, 97 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: it's quite possible that if something like that happens to 98 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,269 Speaker 1: you in an interview, you don't want that job anymore. 99 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: And I would be very understanding of that. So you 100 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: may want to just get out of there as quickly 101 00:05:25,799 --> 00:05:27,678 Speaker 1: as you like, or you may want to really stand 102 00:05:27,678 --> 00:05:30,119 Speaker 1: up to that interviewer and say, Not cool, mate, not on. 103 00:05:30,238 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: You can't speak to someone like that. 104 00:05:32,510 --> 00:05:34,909 Speaker 1: However, if you do want the job, if you do 105 00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:39,059 Speaker 1: want to push forward, and you suspect that you're feeling uncomfortable, 106 00:05:39,149 --> 00:05:43,570 Speaker 1: but there is some unintentional bias showing through, then I 107 00:05:43,570 --> 00:05:45,519 Speaker 1: think you need to have some ways where you can 108 00:05:45,750 --> 00:05:49,299 Speaker 1: politely but firmly refuse to answer a question and move 109 00:05:49,299 --> 00:05:51,450 Speaker 1: on to something that you would like to talk about. 110 00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:53,750 Speaker 2: So the other thing that's worth doing in this circumstance 111 00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:56,750 Speaker 2: is to get a better understanding of the demographic of 112 00:05:56,750 --> 00:05:57,670 Speaker 2: the organisation. 113 00:05:58,470 --> 00:06:03,250 Speaker 2: You can always go online and look at the company's 114 00:06:03,250 --> 00:06:07,250 Speaker 2: annual general report, its values, it's imagery, to get a 115 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 2: little bit of a sense of where it's coming from. 116 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:13,970 Speaker 2: And quite often today, the values of an organisation is 117 00:06:13,970 --> 00:06:17,250 Speaker 2: pretty prominent. So, you can look at whether they do 118 00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:20,469 Speaker 2: hire men or women over 50, and, 119 00:06:21,109 --> 00:06:22,469 Speaker 2: That will give you a bit of an indication of 120 00:06:22,470 --> 00:06:24,829 Speaker 2: whether they're gonna be open to hiring you and whether 121 00:06:24,829 --> 00:06:29,269 Speaker 2: they've got practises and pathways in place to make the 122 00:06:29,269 --> 00:06:32,669 Speaker 2: experience of walking into an organisation as a 50 year 123 00:06:32,670 --> 00:06:36,630 Speaker 2: old and feeling comfortable. So, I'd recommend doing that. It's 124 00:06:36,630 --> 00:06:41,229 Speaker 2: also something you can then lean on when you're getting 125 00:06:41,230 --> 00:06:42,630 Speaker 2: that uncomfortable question. 126 00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 2: You can, you know, smile and say, I've read your 127 00:06:45,799 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 2: company values, and you recommend, you know, diverse workplaces with 128 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: diverse opinions and experiences. I come to you as a 129 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,399 Speaker 2: 50 year old who's raised 4 children and has got 130 00:06:55,399 --> 00:06:59,119 Speaker 2: 3 degrees. That's a pretty diverse set of skills, and 131 00:06:59,119 --> 00:07:01,309 Speaker 2: I'm here to talk to you about those. So give 132 00:07:01,309 --> 00:07:04,309 Speaker 2: yourself a little bit of room to manoeuvre when you're 133 00:07:04,309 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 2: in those tricky spaces, and it can be helped. 134 00:07:07,345 --> 00:07:11,295 Speaker 2: If you know how the company publicly, at least, pitches 135 00:07:11,295 --> 00:07:13,174 Speaker 2: their values. 136 00:07:13,334 --> 00:07:15,734 Speaker 1: If you feel uncomfortable going into an interview, if age 137 00:07:15,734 --> 00:07:18,855 Speaker 1: is something that you are anxious about and you're worried 138 00:07:18,855 --> 00:07:22,255 Speaker 1: about how someone might respond to you, then do a 139 00:07:22,255 --> 00:07:25,054 Speaker 1: little bit of reassurance work. There are a bunch of 140 00:07:25,054 --> 00:07:26,934 Speaker 1: episodes you can go back to in this podcast that 141 00:07:26,934 --> 00:07:29,315 Speaker 1: are about confidence, that are about breathing, that can mean 142 00:07:29,315 --> 00:07:31,614 Speaker 1: that you prep for that interview and calm yourself down. 143 00:07:32,070 --> 00:07:35,029 Speaker 1: But also remember that there are enormous advantages to being 144 00:07:35,029 --> 00:07:39,350 Speaker 1: someone who has experience. As someone who has been the 145 00:07:39,350 --> 00:07:42,109 Speaker 1: person in the workforce that has very little experience and 146 00:07:42,109 --> 00:07:44,790 Speaker 1: being the one who has a lot of experience, we 147 00:07:44,790 --> 00:07:47,179 Speaker 1: all know, once you've been in the workforce for a while, 148 00:07:47,269 --> 00:07:50,470 Speaker 1: that there are things you cannot know implicitly, that you 149 00:07:50,470 --> 00:07:53,470 Speaker 1: can only gain by doing the job and doing the 150 00:07:53,470 --> 00:07:56,700 Speaker 1: job over a period of many years. So don't underestimate 151 00:07:56,700 --> 00:07:59,470 Speaker 1: the value of your experience, no matter where in the 152 00:07:59,470 --> 00:08:01,029 Speaker 1: workforce that experience has been. 153 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,149 Speaker 1: Also remember that you have a level of professional knowledge 154 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,399 Speaker 1: and knowledge potentially of the history of that industry, that 155 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: is important and that it is relevant. 156 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: An organisation is never going to progress effectively if it 157 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: doesn't understand its past, if it doesn't understand the context 158 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,958 Speaker 1: of where it's come from in that industry. And what's 159 00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: gone wrong, what's worked, what hasn't worked, where other companies 160 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,399 Speaker 1: have won or failed, where other government departments have tried 161 00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: that and it hasn't worked before. If you bring that 162 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,790 Speaker 1: kind of knowledge, that kind of understanding and experience, they 163 00:08:30,790 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: are positives. They are not negatives. 164 00:08:33,849 --> 00:08:38,858 Speaker 2: It might also be worth looking around your friends and family, 165 00:08:38,909 --> 00:08:42,750 Speaker 2: and picking up a relevant mentor. And that mentor might 166 00:08:42,750 --> 00:08:45,549 Speaker 2: be a 30 year old, it might be a 25 167 00:08:45,549 --> 00:08:48,830 Speaker 2: year old. If you feel like you just need a 168 00:08:48,830 --> 00:08:54,020 Speaker 2: bit of schooling about what the organisation thinks and does 169 00:08:54,020 --> 00:08:55,909 Speaker 2: and what systems they work on, and 170 00:08:56,169 --> 00:08:58,939 Speaker 2: You know, where they have their lunch breaks or coffee breaks, 171 00:08:59,020 --> 00:09:02,609 Speaker 2: you just want to feel more part of a younger organisation. 172 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:04,929 Speaker 2: Go and ask someone to help you and, and ask 173 00:09:04,929 --> 00:09:08,859 Speaker 2: all those questions, because we now know that mentoring works 174 00:09:08,859 --> 00:09:11,979 Speaker 2: two ways. You can mentor a younger person and a 175 00:09:11,979 --> 00:09:15,109 Speaker 2: younger person can mentor you, and there is enormous benefits 176 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:18,340 Speaker 2: for both. So perhaps you might just need to spend 177 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:19,260 Speaker 2: a bit of time with. 178 00:09:19,859 --> 00:09:22,260 Speaker 2: Someone in their 30s or in their 20s to give 179 00:09:22,260 --> 00:09:24,780 Speaker 2: you the confidence that you need to talk about the 180 00:09:24,780 --> 00:09:28,189 Speaker 2: stuff that you know that you're missing in your, either 181 00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:30,919 Speaker 2: you can be your social media, it can be your 182 00:09:31,299 --> 00:09:34,580 Speaker 2: books or podcasts, it can be culturally, although many of 183 00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:37,500 Speaker 2: you will have children probably, that can help. But I'd 184 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:40,250 Speaker 2: recommend just building up that knowledge a little to give 185 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:43,250 Speaker 2: you more of the confidence that you can work into 186 00:09:43,250 --> 00:09:45,530 Speaker 2: an organisation as a 50 year old and feel comfortable. 187 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,348 Speaker 1: Helen, I wanna go to a couple of those coded 188 00:09:50,349 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: use of language that are sometimes done by an interviewer, 189 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: where you're sitting there and they're asking one thing, but 190 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,949 Speaker 1: you know they're actually trying to figure out another thing. So, 191 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:07,729 Speaker 1: for example, if an interviewer is clearly concerned that you're 192 00:10:07,729 --> 00:10:11,789 Speaker 1: going to be resistant or uncomfortable reporting to someone who 193 00:10:11,789 --> 00:10:16,210 Speaker 1: is younger than you, how can you kind of show them. 194 00:10:16,609 --> 00:10:19,709 Speaker 1: And prove to them in an interview that they don't 195 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:20,380 Speaker 1: need to worry about 196 00:10:20,380 --> 00:10:23,468 Speaker 2: that. Look, I think what you're getting to here is 197 00:10:23,469 --> 00:10:27,590 Speaker 2: the mindset about going into a role as a 50 198 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:29,909 Speaker 2: year old, and I'm using 50 broadly, you can be 40, 199 00:10:29,989 --> 00:10:36,229 Speaker 2: you can be 70, and finding yourself reporting to a 200 00:10:36,229 --> 00:10:38,750 Speaker 2: whole bunch of people, and all your team are younger 201 00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:43,030 Speaker 2: than you. So, that will be for some people, difficult 202 00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:44,030 Speaker 2: and hard to get over. 203 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:48,159 Speaker 2: And all I can say is, that's a mindset you're 204 00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: gonna have to work on. You're going to have to 205 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 2: get used to the idea that at some point that 206 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,718 Speaker 2: everyone you work with and report to is likely to 207 00:10:57,719 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 2: be younger than you. This is just the way the 208 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 2: world is. So I do think before you go into 209 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,590 Speaker 2: the job interview, you have to make peace with that, 210 00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:08,919 Speaker 2: that that's OK. 211 00:11:09,359 --> 00:11:12,358 Speaker 2: Make peace with who you are and make peace with 212 00:11:12,359 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: what you bring, knowing that you bring a whole range 213 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,630 Speaker 2: of skills, and some people want to draw on your 214 00:11:17,630 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: experience and some people won't. Some people will always know better, 215 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: even though they've done half of what you've done. 216 00:11:24,539 --> 00:11:28,069 Speaker 2: But you need to get into the mindset that that 217 00:11:28,070 --> 00:11:31,950 Speaker 2: is going to happen and that that is OK. Because 218 00:11:32,229 --> 00:11:37,950 Speaker 2: there is no point taking a job where you're constantly angry, defensive, 219 00:11:38,070 --> 00:11:43,989 Speaker 2: uncomfortable with that power shift. That's just the way it's 220 00:11:43,989 --> 00:11:46,340 Speaker 2: gonna be. Is that too much tough love? 221 00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: Not at all. What if I've made peace with that? Yes. 222 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,590 Speaker 1: What if I have come to a really good place, 223 00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:53,869 Speaker 1: I am eager and excited to get back to work. 224 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,270 Speaker 1: I am hopeful to learn from younger colleagues or younger bosses, 225 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,469 Speaker 1: but I'm in an interview situation, and I can tell 226 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: that this younger interviewer is worried that I won't be 227 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 1: able to do that. How do I convince 228 00:12:06,719 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 2: them? I think you have to find an example that demonstrates. 229 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:15,859 Speaker 2: That long time ago, you worked out that the person 230 00:12:15,859 --> 00:12:18,030 Speaker 2: you're gonna report to and that your colleagues were gonna 231 00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:20,309 Speaker 2: be older than you, but that, 232 00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:24,710 Speaker 2: You still bring X, Y and Z to the table, 233 00:12:25,119 --> 00:12:27,950 Speaker 2: because what an interviewer is looking for is a cultural fit, 234 00:12:28,119 --> 00:12:29,598 Speaker 2: and someone that's going to bring, 235 00:12:30,609 --> 00:12:33,250 Speaker 2: An X factor to the team. The X factor that 236 00:12:33,250 --> 00:12:35,409 Speaker 2: you bring to the team will be your experience. 237 00:12:36,229 --> 00:12:40,859 Speaker 2: And if you can demonstrate that your experience and your 238 00:12:40,859 --> 00:12:45,348 Speaker 2: age is valuable, and demonstrate that you're not defensive about 239 00:12:45,349 --> 00:12:50,099 Speaker 2: it and that you're not likely to be irritated by 240 00:12:50,210 --> 00:12:52,710 Speaker 2: the youth of the team around you, then you're a 241 00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:54,260 Speaker 2: really good shot at getting the job. 242 00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:59,669 Speaker 1: What if terms like cultural fit and technically proficient are 243 00:12:59,669 --> 00:13:02,590 Speaker 1: being thrown around in a way that makes you go, 244 00:13:03,419 --> 00:13:05,739 Speaker 1: They're saying, Aren't you too old for this job? How 245 00:13:05,739 --> 00:13:10,738 Speaker 1: do you reset or reframe a conversation to make sure 246 00:13:10,739 --> 00:13:14,210 Speaker 1: that you can push back on that without being rude? 247 00:13:14,739 --> 00:13:15,780 Speaker 2: Then I think the answers. 248 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,039 Speaker 2: Similar to the answer we give when we're talking about 249 00:13:20,039 --> 00:13:23,718 Speaker 2: career transition or career breaks. I'm excited to be a 250 00:13:23,729 --> 00:13:26,239 Speaker 2: part of this team. I'm excited by the prospect of 251 00:13:26,239 --> 00:13:29,468 Speaker 2: bringing new insights and a different outlook to what you do. 252 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,190 Speaker 2: I love working with diverse teams and celebrating job success 253 00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:38,189 Speaker 2: of my colleagues. I'm an avid learner, I'm a lifelong learner. 254 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 2: I look forward. 255 00:13:39,719 --> 00:13:43,630 Speaker 2: To learning the platforms, and I would say, you know, 256 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 2: you should have done a bit of research before you 257 00:13:45,599 --> 00:13:48,590 Speaker 2: go to find out what platforms they are using, if possible, 258 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,989 Speaker 2: and sharing my own insights. I think if you've got 259 00:13:53,989 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: concerns around some of those skills, and I, and I'm 260 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:57,919 Speaker 2: speaking to, 261 00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:03,270 Speaker 2: Many mental sessions where older women are concerned around some 262 00:14:03,270 --> 00:14:07,429 Speaker 2: of the platforms that are used, and I'm thinking Asana, 263 00:14:07,669 --> 00:14:11,820 Speaker 2: I'm thinking Excel, I'm thinking Google Meets. Go and do 264 00:14:11,820 --> 00:14:15,099 Speaker 2: a little bit of research on those and just familiarise 265 00:14:15,099 --> 00:14:17,950 Speaker 2: yourself with how easy they are. They're not complicated, they 266 00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:18,869 Speaker 2: sound complicated. 267 00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:22,109 Speaker 2: And just spend a little bit of time playing with 268 00:14:22,109 --> 00:14:25,030 Speaker 2: those platforms, I just think that will give you a 269 00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:28,590 Speaker 2: little bit extra confidence, but don't be put off by 270 00:14:28,590 --> 00:14:32,469 Speaker 2: those questions and don't hesitate from expressing, 271 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,159 Speaker 2: Your enthusiasm for the role and bringing your experience to 272 00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:37,750 Speaker 2: the role. 273 00:14:38,039 --> 00:14:41,919 Speaker 1: I think enthusiasm covers all manner of sins, right? And 274 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:44,599 Speaker 1: no matter what you are not super confident about or 275 00:14:44,599 --> 00:14:46,919 Speaker 1: what you're unsure about, or what you don't know, if 276 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:50,039 Speaker 1: you're enthusiastic, unless you're a brain surgeon and that's the 277 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: job you're going for, most people are gonna be impressed 278 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,099 Speaker 1: by that enthusiasm. So, I don't think there's any 279 00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:57,780 Speaker 1: Anything wrong with saying, if you are sensing that there 280 00:14:57,780 --> 00:15:01,340 Speaker 1: is a concern about your technical proficiency, saying, You know what, 281 00:15:01,419 --> 00:15:03,539 Speaker 1: it has been a while since I've worked in a 282 00:15:03,539 --> 00:15:05,700 Speaker 1: workplace like this one, and I am sure the tools 283 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:08,140 Speaker 1: have changed. What I would love is if you could 284 00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:10,940 Speaker 1: let me know the platforms and the programmes that you're 285 00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:13,940 Speaker 1: using in your organisation, so I can make sure I'm 100% 286 00:15:13,940 --> 00:15:16,270 Speaker 1: up to date before I join you in January. 287 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:22,340 Speaker 2: And it's quite likely that they've got onboarding programmes anyway. So, 288 00:15:22,780 --> 00:15:25,049 Speaker 2: Yeah, you could, you could say things like, you know, 289 00:15:25,299 --> 00:15:28,820 Speaker 2: any advance notice you have about the onboarding process would 290 00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:31,250 Speaker 2: be appreciated, and you can get up to speed in, 291 00:15:31,289 --> 00:15:34,700 Speaker 2: in your own time. But don't be scared of those platforms. 292 00:15:34,820 --> 00:15:37,049 Speaker 1: And don't be embarrassed by your age. That's, I think, 293 00:15:37,059 --> 00:15:39,969 Speaker 1: the final thing we need to pause on here. We 294 00:15:39,969 --> 00:15:42,859 Speaker 1: are a society that doesn't value age the way that 295 00:15:42,859 --> 00:15:45,450 Speaker 1: we should, but that's not the case around the world. 296 00:15:45,739 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: I think culturally, here in Australia, we could 297 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:50,340 Speaker 1: do a whole lot better at recognising what we can 298 00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:53,989 Speaker 1: learn from having a diversity of age groups in a workplace, 299 00:15:54,099 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: and valuing the experience and the knowledge of people who've 300 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: been in the workplace a little bit longer. So I 301 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,130 Speaker 1: think lean on that knowledge, lean on that experience. Don't 302 00:16:02,130 --> 00:16:03,479 Speaker 1: be ashamed of it. Be proud of it. 303 00:16:04,599 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, that sounds good in theory, but what 304 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,770 Speaker 2: if I am convinced that saying I'm 62 means I 305 00:16:13,770 --> 00:16:17,719 Speaker 2: won't even get an interview, so I've said I'm 52. 306 00:16:18,549 --> 00:16:21,369 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think you should lie, generally. I think 307 00:16:21,369 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: that's a good lesson in job interviews, full stop. Don't lie. 308 00:16:25,849 --> 00:16:30,049 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with omitting information. So, I think if 309 00:16:30,049 --> 00:16:33,409 Speaker 1: you were asked about your age and experience, and if 310 00:16:33,409 --> 00:16:36,330 Speaker 1: you feel so uncomfortable about saying how old you are, 311 00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:39,330 Speaker 1: don't say it. Lead with, yeah, I've been around a 312 00:16:39,330 --> 00:16:41,010 Speaker 1: while and I've been working in this space for a 313 00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:43,890 Speaker 1: long time, and that means I bring with me X, Y, 314 00:16:43,969 --> 00:16:44,369 Speaker 1: and Z. 315 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:47,190 Speaker 1: It also means there's probably some things I've got to learn, 316 00:16:47,429 --> 00:16:50,630 Speaker 1: particularly in the X, Y, and Z space. And that's 317 00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:53,270 Speaker 1: why I'd love to know in advance what I can 318 00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:54,869 Speaker 1: go away with to make sure that on day one, 319 00:16:54,909 --> 00:16:56,789 Speaker 1: I can hit the ground running. And 320 00:16:56,789 --> 00:16:59,099 Speaker 2: we're right in saying that they can't ask your age anyway. 321 00:16:59,750 --> 00:17:01,690 Speaker 1: No, I think you need to volunteer that information. 322 00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:04,670 Speaker 2: That's right. So you don't have to volunteer it, and 323 00:17:04,670 --> 00:17:07,750 Speaker 2: it's none of their business, and that's a problem you 324 00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:09,579 Speaker 2: can tackle later once you've got the job. 325 00:17:11,709 --> 00:17:15,829 Speaker 1: Shortlisted is produced by Future Women's Jobs Academy. To apply 326 00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:21,790 Speaker 1: to join, head to jobsacademy.uwomen.com or go to Futurewomen.com to 327 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:23,699 Speaker 1: become a future women member today.