1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,382 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:21,222 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. My concern is that 4 00:00:21,302 --> 00:00:23,662 Speaker 2: Megan Markl becomes the boy who cried jam. 5 00:00:23,741 --> 00:00:25,262 Speaker 3: No. That is a real concern. 6 00:00:25,582 --> 00:00:28,662 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can't just keep sending people jam and 7 00:00:28,702 --> 00:00:31,142 Speaker 2: expecting them to spreuk it. You've already used. 8 00:00:31,222 --> 00:00:32,702 Speaker 1: She didn't mention dog treats either. 9 00:00:33,062 --> 00:00:34,782 Speaker 2: I think it's going to be dog treats. I reckon 10 00:00:34,822 --> 00:00:36,821 Speaker 2: it's going to be scented candles. I think we're going 11 00:00:36,862 --> 00:00:43,982 Speaker 2: to have a tetowel and a fancy class. Welcome to 12 00:00:44,102 --> 00:00:47,222 Speaker 2: MoMA mea out loud what women are actually talking about? 13 00:00:47,262 --> 00:00:50,982 Speaker 2: On Wednesday, the nineteenth of February. I am Jesse. 14 00:00:50,902 --> 00:00:53,582 Speaker 1: Stevens, I'm mea Friedman, and Holly. 15 00:00:53,302 --> 00:00:56,502 Speaker 2: Is away this week, which means Amelia Lester, you are 16 00:00:56,542 --> 00:01:00,502 Speaker 2: here again. Hello on the show today. A moment's silence 17 00:01:00,582 --> 00:01:05,941 Speaker 2: for Megan Markles American Riviera Orchard We hardly knew, an announcement, 18 00:01:06,222 --> 00:01:09,862 Speaker 2: an Instagram reel and a new brand. Did Meghan pull 19 00:01:09,941 --> 00:01:14,022 Speaker 2: off an epic relaunch? May I do not answer it? Plus? 20 00:01:14,182 --> 00:01:16,262 Speaker 1: Is it a did you don't know? 21 00:01:16,342 --> 00:01:19,822 Speaker 2: There's no suspense. Plus is Elon Musk using his kids 22 00:01:19,822 --> 00:01:23,622 Speaker 2: as props? And if so why? And open marriages are out. 23 00:01:23,662 --> 00:01:27,782 Speaker 2: Affairs are in the essay making people rethink non monogamy. 24 00:01:27,982 --> 00:01:29,941 Speaker 2: But first, Amelia, in. 25 00:01:29,902 --> 00:01:34,182 Speaker 3: Case you missed it, America is divorcing Europe on Valentine's Day, 26 00:01:34,222 --> 00:01:37,182 Speaker 3: no less. Donald Trump's vice president J. D. Vance gave 27 00:01:37,222 --> 00:01:40,222 Speaker 3: this speech in Germany, which left European leaders, who were 28 00:01:40,222 --> 00:01:45,102 Speaker 3: normally a pretty blase brunch, open mouthed, slack jawed, not applauding. 29 00:01:45,382 --> 00:01:48,822 Speaker 1: You came in having read this to our early morning 30 00:01:48,862 --> 00:01:51,062 Speaker 1: planning meeting a little bit shaky. 31 00:01:51,302 --> 00:01:52,862 Speaker 3: I was literally shaky. 32 00:01:52,662 --> 00:01:57,022 Speaker 1: Little unsettled. I'm sort of blithely ignorant of Well, I've. 33 00:01:56,862 --> 00:01:59,222 Speaker 2: Seen the headlines, but can you tell me why? Because 34 00:01:59,302 --> 00:02:02,302 Speaker 2: they were literally in shock after they heard his speech. 35 00:02:02,542 --> 00:02:06,462 Speaker 3: Yes, they were in shock. So what did he say? Well, 36 00:02:06,542 --> 00:02:09,221 Speaker 3: for one, he said, everyone needs to relax about Nazis. 37 00:02:09,582 --> 00:02:11,061 Speaker 3: Let's listen to a grab now. 38 00:02:11,102 --> 00:02:15,502 Speaker 4: Again. We don't have to agree with everything or anything 39 00:02:15,621 --> 00:02:20,182 Speaker 4: that people say, but when people represent, when political leaders 40 00:02:20,262 --> 00:02:24,222 Speaker 4: represent an important constituency, it is incumbent upon us to 41 00:02:24,342 --> 00:02:27,382 Speaker 4: at least participate in dialogue with them. 42 00:02:27,502 --> 00:02:29,222 Speaker 1: An important constituency. 43 00:02:29,502 --> 00:02:31,942 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not what is the Nazis. 44 00:02:32,022 --> 00:02:34,542 Speaker 1: So this is really the next level of Trump's. Some 45 00:02:34,742 --> 00:02:35,982 Speaker 1: of them are very nice people. 46 00:02:36,382 --> 00:02:38,062 Speaker 3: Yeah. So you have to know the context for this, 47 00:02:38,102 --> 00:02:40,742 Speaker 3: which is at the weekend before this speech, Vance met 48 00:02:40,742 --> 00:02:44,982 Speaker 3: with representatives of Germany's AfD party. This is a far 49 00:02:45,102 --> 00:02:47,622 Speaker 3: right party which some describe as neo Nazi, and for 50 00:02:47,662 --> 00:02:51,382 Speaker 3: good reason, its leaders have been convicted for using Nazi 51 00:02:51,422 --> 00:02:54,422 Speaker 3: slogans a political rallies, and they've also said that not 52 00:02:54,542 --> 00:02:56,302 Speaker 3: all SS leaders were bad guys. 53 00:02:56,502 --> 00:02:57,501 Speaker 1: Is it the German election? 54 00:02:57,942 --> 00:03:00,822 Speaker 3: Yes, iminently to day is the German election, and the 55 00:03:00,902 --> 00:03:04,142 Speaker 3: AfD is actually second in the polls. It looks like 56 00:03:04,181 --> 00:03:07,222 Speaker 3: it's going to have its strongest showing ever. But what's 57 00:03:07,222 --> 00:03:11,102 Speaker 3: interesting is how Germany responded. So the German Chancellor Olf 58 00:03:11,181 --> 00:03:15,102 Speaker 3: Schultz got up afterwards and he gave this speech. He said, basically, 59 00:03:15,222 --> 00:03:17,702 Speaker 3: not on my watch. He said that Germany has committed 60 00:03:17,782 --> 00:03:21,342 Speaker 3: to never again returning to fascism and the Holocaust, and 61 00:03:21,382 --> 00:03:24,062 Speaker 3: that the laws that Germany has restricting hate speech that 62 00:03:24,142 --> 00:03:28,742 Speaker 3: Vance was referring to ensure that that commitment is upheld. 63 00:03:28,782 --> 00:03:30,822 Speaker 3: He said that they're not going to work with the AAFD. 64 00:03:30,982 --> 00:03:33,582 Speaker 3: There's some talk about whether or not the AfD is 65 00:03:33,622 --> 00:03:35,862 Speaker 3: going to be part of the government coalition, after all, 66 00:03:35,902 --> 00:03:38,342 Speaker 3: they are tracking second in the polls. But all the 67 00:03:38,382 --> 00:03:40,542 Speaker 3: other mainstream parties in Germany have said no, they're not 68 00:03:40,582 --> 00:03:43,542 Speaker 3: going to work with the AfD, and Schultz, in response 69 00:03:43,542 --> 00:03:46,062 Speaker 3: to Vance, said, I'm holding the line. We are going 70 00:03:46,102 --> 00:03:48,022 Speaker 3: to make sure that Nazis do not end up in 71 00:03:48,062 --> 00:03:54,182 Speaker 3: the German parliament again. Now do you see why I 72 00:03:54,222 --> 00:03:55,142 Speaker 3: was shaky on Monday? 73 00:03:55,422 --> 00:03:56,062 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the. 74 00:03:56,022 --> 00:03:59,142 Speaker 3: Problem is Vance is forty by the way, he's really young. 75 00:03:59,622 --> 00:04:01,862 Speaker 3: So a lot of the European leaders there was reporting 76 00:04:01,902 --> 00:04:04,662 Speaker 3: afterwards that part of what shocked them is that Trump 77 00:04:04,822 --> 00:04:07,462 Speaker 3: is an old man and you can likely write him 78 00:04:07,502 --> 00:04:09,782 Speaker 3: off as he's a little kookie. He's going to leave 79 00:04:09,822 --> 00:04:10,622 Speaker 3: the world stage. 80 00:04:10,702 --> 00:04:13,302 Speaker 1: He also doesn't believe in anything other than Trump, like 81 00:04:13,342 --> 00:04:16,622 Speaker 1: he has no real ideology, which is just I'm going 82 00:04:16,662 --> 00:04:19,861 Speaker 1: to be really populars so everyone loves me because I'm 83 00:04:20,022 --> 00:04:21,022 Speaker 1: the biggest, strongest. 84 00:04:21,262 --> 00:04:23,741 Speaker 2: Can I ask what JD. Vance is doing in Germany? Like, 85 00:04:23,822 --> 00:04:25,222 Speaker 2: what does he have to do with any of this? 86 00:04:25,541 --> 00:04:27,902 Speaker 3: Oh, he was in Germany because there's this thing called 87 00:04:27,902 --> 00:04:30,981 Speaker 3: the Munich Security Conference, which is where European leaders get 88 00:04:31,022 --> 00:04:33,541 Speaker 3: together to talk about how to help Ukraine and other 89 00:04:33,662 --> 00:04:36,822 Speaker 3: security issues, none of which Vance talked about in the speech. 90 00:04:36,941 --> 00:04:38,622 Speaker 1: And this is the kind of stuff that Trump wouldn't 91 00:04:38,621 --> 00:04:40,061 Speaker 1: want to do because he would think that it would 92 00:04:40,101 --> 00:04:42,022 Speaker 1: be boring. Yes, so do you think this is how 93 00:04:42,022 --> 00:04:42,501 Speaker 1: it's going to go? 94 00:04:42,702 --> 00:04:45,101 Speaker 3: The diet coach are smaller in Europe, so that would 95 00:04:45,101 --> 00:04:46,741 Speaker 3: be another reason why he doesn't want to travel there. 96 00:04:47,022 --> 00:04:49,541 Speaker 3: The other thing is that Elon Musk went to an 97 00:04:49,541 --> 00:04:51,662 Speaker 3: AfD rally. I don't know if you saw that via 98 00:04:51,782 --> 00:04:52,342 Speaker 3: video link. 99 00:04:53,621 --> 00:04:58,421 Speaker 2: Right, Okay, kats out of the bag. 100 00:04:58,501 --> 00:05:00,501 Speaker 5: I'm shocked we've kept this a secret for so long. 101 00:05:00,541 --> 00:05:03,101 Speaker 5: In two weeks, my show is coming out, which I'm 102 00:05:03,142 --> 00:05:06,702 Speaker 5: so excited for, and also my business, which I think 103 00:05:06,741 --> 00:05:10,261 Speaker 5: there's been a lot of curiosity about. Last year, I 104 00:05:10,301 --> 00:05:12,261 Speaker 5: had thought, you know what American Revier. That sounds like 105 00:05:12,301 --> 00:05:14,981 Speaker 5: such a great name. It's my neighborhood. It's a nickname 106 00:05:15,022 --> 00:05:17,941 Speaker 5: for Santa Barbara, but it limited me to things that 107 00:05:17,941 --> 00:05:20,861 Speaker 5: were just manufactured. 108 00:05:20,181 --> 00:05:21,822 Speaker 2: And grown in this area. 109 00:05:21,902 --> 00:05:24,782 Speaker 5: Then Netflix came on, not just as my partner in 110 00:05:24,861 --> 00:05:28,022 Speaker 5: the show, but as my partner in my business, which 111 00:05:28,061 --> 00:05:28,541 Speaker 5: was huge. 112 00:05:28,662 --> 00:05:29,662 Speaker 1: So I thought about it. 113 00:05:29,582 --> 00:05:31,981 Speaker 5: And I've been waiting for a moment to share a 114 00:05:32,061 --> 00:05:34,902 Speaker 5: name that I'd secured in twenty twenty two, and this 115 00:05:34,941 --> 00:05:36,702 Speaker 5: is the moment. And it's called as Ever. 116 00:05:36,941 --> 00:05:38,702 Speaker 2: As Ever essentially means. 117 00:05:38,462 --> 00:05:40,822 Speaker 5: As it's always been. And if you followed me since 118 00:05:40,861 --> 00:05:43,462 Speaker 5: twenty fourteen with the Tig, you know I've always loved 119 00:05:43,501 --> 00:05:45,822 Speaker 5: cooking and crafting and gardening. This is what I do 120 00:05:45,981 --> 00:05:47,421 Speaker 5: and I haven't been able to share it with you 121 00:05:47,541 --> 00:05:49,501 Speaker 5: in the same way for the past few years, but 122 00:05:49,541 --> 00:05:51,901 Speaker 5: now I can, so as things are starting to trickle 123 00:05:51,941 --> 00:05:53,702 Speaker 5: out there, I wanted you to hear it from me first. 124 00:05:53,861 --> 00:05:56,021 Speaker 1: Of course, there will be fruit preserves. 125 00:05:56,061 --> 00:05:57,941 Speaker 5: I think we're all clear at this point that jam 126 00:05:57,981 --> 00:06:00,061 Speaker 5: is my jam, but there's so many more products that 127 00:06:00,142 --> 00:06:01,861 Speaker 5: I just love that I use in my home, and 128 00:06:01,902 --> 00:06:03,461 Speaker 5: now it's time to share it with you, so I 129 00:06:03,462 --> 00:06:04,381 Speaker 5: can't wait for you to see it. 130 00:06:04,421 --> 00:06:07,342 Speaker 2: Thanks guys, if you have been waiting for pots of 131 00:06:07,421 --> 00:06:11,501 Speaker 2: Jam by American Riviera Orchard, we have terrible news because 132 00:06:11,541 --> 00:06:15,541 Speaker 2: Megan Markle yesterday announced a new identity for her lifestyle brand, 133 00:06:15,941 --> 00:06:17,382 Speaker 2: now called as Ever. 134 00:06:17,582 --> 00:06:19,981 Speaker 1: She shouldn't need me labels, she is going to need 135 00:06:20,061 --> 00:06:20,382 Speaker 1: new like. 136 00:06:21,101 --> 00:06:24,342 Speaker 3: Pour Out some strawberry jam from American revera orchard. 137 00:06:24,582 --> 00:06:27,902 Speaker 2: If you have a Google alert set for American Riviera orchard, 138 00:06:28,061 --> 00:06:31,582 Speaker 2: which mayor does, you'll know that the trademark was rejected 139 00:06:31,621 --> 00:06:34,262 Speaker 2: last year as one cannot have exclusive rights to the 140 00:06:34,342 --> 00:06:37,302 Speaker 2: name of a place. An American reviewer an orchard or 141 00:06:37,301 --> 00:06:40,381 Speaker 2: an orchard. American Riviera is a commonly used place name 142 00:06:40,421 --> 00:06:43,502 Speaker 2: to describe Santa Barbara, where she lives with Harry. There 143 00:06:43,501 --> 00:06:47,462 Speaker 2: were other issues, apparently the o in the logo didn't 144 00:06:47,462 --> 00:06:50,341 Speaker 2: look enough like a letter, and something about other food 145 00:06:50,381 --> 00:06:52,861 Speaker 2: companies saying the name was too similar to theirs, which 146 00:06:52,902 --> 00:06:56,741 Speaker 2: I don't think is that uncommon. Interestingly, American commentator and 147 00:06:56,821 --> 00:07:01,301 Speaker 2: Royal reporter Kinsey Schofield said in October last year. She 148 00:07:01,381 --> 00:07:03,861 Speaker 2: said that there were rumors that Netflix has said, allow 149 00:07:03,981 --> 00:07:07,101 Speaker 2: us to manage the retail strategy if you can't find 150 00:07:07,142 --> 00:07:09,862 Speaker 2: a CEO or somebody willing to work with you. They 151 00:07:09,941 --> 00:07:13,662 Speaker 2: said this to Megan, and Netflix saw an opportunity there. 152 00:07:13,821 --> 00:07:16,141 Speaker 2: And it's just interesting because that's exactly what has happened. 153 00:07:16,222 --> 00:07:17,942 Speaker 1: Netflix so true, I'd forgotten about it. 154 00:07:17,862 --> 00:07:20,862 Speaker 2: Has come on board as a partner. Meya. Meghan says 155 00:07:20,902 --> 00:07:24,862 Speaker 2: the original name meant she was limited to things that 156 00:07:24,941 --> 00:07:27,462 Speaker 2: she would have to manufacture and grow in the American 157 00:07:27,542 --> 00:07:30,142 Speaker 2: riviera orchard. Do you buy it? 158 00:07:30,462 --> 00:07:32,862 Speaker 1: I think it's great spin. I think it's really good spin. 159 00:07:32,941 --> 00:07:36,542 Speaker 1: I think what I took away from this video is 160 00:07:36,582 --> 00:07:41,581 Speaker 1: that Megan is picking up her influencing exactly where she 161 00:07:41,702 --> 00:07:46,062 Speaker 1: left off around twenty fifteen twenty sixteen when she shut 162 00:07:46,142 --> 00:07:50,982 Speaker 1: down the TIG and when social media and influencing really changed. 163 00:07:51,062 --> 00:07:52,942 Speaker 1: And none of this is a disc at all because 164 00:07:52,982 --> 00:07:55,021 Speaker 1: I know that I'm sort of the one on the 165 00:07:55,022 --> 00:07:57,702 Speaker 1: show that's considered to be anti Meghan. I'm not at all. 166 00:07:57,742 --> 00:08:01,062 Speaker 1: But my observation as to why people often or why 167 00:08:01,102 --> 00:08:03,982 Speaker 1: people in the last few weeks have found this stuff 168 00:08:04,782 --> 00:08:06,822 Speaker 1: it sort of feels a little bit out of step, 169 00:08:07,262 --> 00:08:10,422 Speaker 1: and some people say it doesn't feel authentic or it 170 00:08:10,462 --> 00:08:13,581 Speaker 1: feels fake. The more modern way to do it in 171 00:08:13,622 --> 00:08:16,782 Speaker 1: the TikTok era is to be like a little bit 172 00:08:16,821 --> 00:08:19,422 Speaker 1: like Ryan Reynolds at Saturday Night Live. I don't know 173 00:08:19,422 --> 00:08:22,062 Speaker 1: if you've seen the fiftieth Birthday celebrations and he was 174 00:08:22,062 --> 00:08:24,782 Speaker 1: in the audience. It's like Lively and Tina Fay and 175 00:08:24,821 --> 00:08:28,102 Speaker 1: Amy Poehler were like, hey, Ryan, Reynolds in the audience 176 00:08:28,102 --> 00:08:30,422 Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, Ryan, how you doing, And he's like, 177 00:08:30,462 --> 00:08:31,662 Speaker 1: why what have you heard. 178 00:08:31,742 --> 00:08:33,982 Speaker 2: Which, to be clear, is just as manufactured. 179 00:08:34,182 --> 00:08:37,462 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally, But it's not pretending that everything that 180 00:08:37,502 --> 00:08:41,542 Speaker 1: everybody knows it's not gaslighting, and it's owning it and 181 00:08:41,582 --> 00:08:44,222 Speaker 1: being honest about like he was making funny, is it. 182 00:08:44,182 --> 00:08:46,662 Speaker 2: Gas lighting or is it someone don't we get to 183 00:08:46,702 --> 00:08:50,142 Speaker 2: tell our own stories about copyright issues? Well, like what 184 00:08:50,302 --> 00:08:51,342 Speaker 2: out of basic human right? 185 00:08:51,502 --> 00:08:54,022 Speaker 1: She can do whatever she wants. But I'm just saying 186 00:08:54,062 --> 00:08:58,942 Speaker 1: that if I was advising her, it would be just go, yeah, 187 00:08:58,982 --> 00:09:01,182 Speaker 1: you know, you might have heard a few copyright issues. 188 00:09:01,262 --> 00:09:05,782 Speaker 1: Turns out American Riviera very popular. Luckily, back in twenty 189 00:09:05,822 --> 00:09:08,982 Speaker 1: twenty two, I reserved another name because thinking about the 190 00:09:09,062 --> 00:09:11,422 Speaker 1: name for a and can be quite hard. So on 191 00:09:11,462 --> 00:09:14,462 Speaker 1: my short list was as ever, and here's why it's 192 00:09:14,462 --> 00:09:15,822 Speaker 1: actually going to be even better. 193 00:09:16,062 --> 00:09:18,342 Speaker 3: Also, to me his point, there were so many edits 194 00:09:18,382 --> 00:09:22,022 Speaker 3: in that. So she kept in the start where Harry, 195 00:09:22,062 --> 00:09:24,182 Speaker 3: of course says I've turned the camera on away, which is. 196 00:09:24,182 --> 00:09:26,222 Speaker 2: Weird because it's selfimotes. So it's like, why would. 197 00:09:25,982 --> 00:09:29,502 Speaker 1: Which was that was all very calculous and That's what 198 00:09:29,542 --> 00:09:32,662 Speaker 1: I mean. People see through those tricks. Now. Ten years 199 00:09:32,662 --> 00:09:35,262 Speaker 1: ago they would have been seen to be charming, or 200 00:09:35,262 --> 00:09:38,102 Speaker 1: people wouldn't have picked up on them. But we've moved 201 00:09:38,142 --> 00:09:41,622 Speaker 1: on and influencing his moved on, and because of TikTok 202 00:09:41,902 --> 00:09:45,142 Speaker 1: and the desire for authenticity, we've also moved past the 203 00:09:45,182 --> 00:09:49,542 Speaker 1: faux authenticity. They're oh so grateful. Oh my god, you guys, 204 00:09:49,542 --> 00:09:54,542 Speaker 1: can you believe Netflix? You know, like all that feels disingenuous, 205 00:09:54,702 --> 00:09:57,702 Speaker 1: Whereas I think the criticism of Meganofen is that she 206 00:09:57,862 --> 00:09:59,822 Speaker 1: just can't have a laugh at herself. 207 00:10:00,062 --> 00:10:01,982 Speaker 2: She said, Jam is her jam. That was very funny. 208 00:10:02,662 --> 00:10:03,822 Speaker 2: Did you make that was funny? 209 00:10:03,942 --> 00:10:05,902 Speaker 3: So, first of all, I want to make an observation 210 00:10:05,982 --> 00:10:08,622 Speaker 3: about the name as Ever. I had a boss once 211 00:10:08,742 --> 00:10:12,502 Speaker 3: who was a real famous, good writer, and this boss 212 00:10:12,662 --> 00:10:16,382 Speaker 3: advised me to always sign my emails as Ever because 213 00:10:16,422 --> 00:10:19,822 Speaker 3: he explained to me that whether you mean to diss 214 00:10:19,902 --> 00:10:23,182 Speaker 3: someone or to say I still hate you, or to 215 00:10:23,262 --> 00:10:26,582 Speaker 3: say you still annoy me, as Ever is the ultimate 216 00:10:26,622 --> 00:10:30,822 Speaker 3: way to just be authentic to yourself but still appear 217 00:10:30,862 --> 00:10:32,662 Speaker 3: polite to everyone you write to. 218 00:10:32,902 --> 00:10:34,862 Speaker 1: It's a great name. I think it's so much better 219 00:10:34,902 --> 00:10:35,862 Speaker 1: than America. 220 00:10:36,742 --> 00:10:38,582 Speaker 2: Like as ever, fuck you yes exactly. 221 00:10:39,382 --> 00:10:41,862 Speaker 3: The second thing I noticed about this name change is 222 00:10:41,862 --> 00:10:45,182 Speaker 3: that there was some reporting by Puck recently about how 223 00:10:45,422 --> 00:10:48,022 Speaker 3: Flamingo a state which is actually started by an Australian 224 00:10:48,062 --> 00:10:50,382 Speaker 3: man named Richard Christensen and which I believe is sold 225 00:10:50,382 --> 00:10:53,302 Speaker 3: in Mecca here in Australia, which spaced out of LA 226 00:10:53,502 --> 00:10:56,102 Speaker 3: There was some reporting that Megan had asked to work 227 00:10:56,142 --> 00:10:59,261 Speaker 3: with Richard on jams and to sort of collaborate, and 228 00:10:59,542 --> 00:11:01,742 Speaker 3: that he had said that he didn't want to do that. 229 00:11:01,862 --> 00:11:04,182 Speaker 3: So that's why she went off to start her own company. 230 00:11:04,302 --> 00:11:05,382 Speaker 1: Is He a beauty brand? 231 00:11:05,662 --> 00:11:08,782 Speaker 3: It started with soaps and candles right and now has 232 00:11:08,822 --> 00:11:11,902 Speaker 3: moved into, among other things, jams, rose, et cetera. It's 233 00:11:11,902 --> 00:11:13,142 Speaker 3: sort of a lifestyle. 234 00:11:12,702 --> 00:11:15,022 Speaker 1: Brand, which I assume and not sold a Meca unlesson's 235 00:11:15,062 --> 00:11:17,702 Speaker 1: been a while, and stuff in in Mecca. 236 00:11:17,102 --> 00:11:19,822 Speaker 3: And so I think that by changing it to as Eva, 237 00:11:19,862 --> 00:11:22,382 Speaker 3: she's we know that Megan's hyper sensitive to what people 238 00:11:22,422 --> 00:11:24,902 Speaker 3: are saying about her online. I'm sure she tracks that's 239 00:11:24,942 --> 00:11:28,502 Speaker 3: understandable in her course, and didn't like the idea that 240 00:11:28,542 --> 00:11:30,862 Speaker 3: she was being reported as kind of a copycat or 241 00:11:30,862 --> 00:11:33,462 Speaker 3: someone who was spurned from a collaboration, so started her 242 00:11:33,502 --> 00:11:35,462 Speaker 3: own thing as ever is moving it away from that 243 00:11:35,542 --> 00:11:39,102 Speaker 3: idea of a lifestyle brand rooted in place that he does, 244 00:11:39,222 --> 00:11:41,462 Speaker 3: and it's more making it into more of a generic 245 00:11:41,542 --> 00:11:42,702 Speaker 3: influencer brand. 246 00:11:42,542 --> 00:11:45,822 Speaker 1: To any better. And it also says classic, right. I 247 00:11:45,822 --> 00:11:48,862 Speaker 1: think her style is generally very classic. You know, she's 248 00:11:48,902 --> 00:11:52,302 Speaker 1: in her white shirt, her simple necklace, her blue jeans. 249 00:11:52,582 --> 00:11:54,502 Speaker 1: I think that is really true to her. Giving how 250 00:11:54,542 --> 00:11:56,902 Speaker 1: she debuted on the World Stages. She remembers she went 251 00:11:56,942 --> 00:11:59,382 Speaker 1: to that event with Harry wearing blue jeans and a 252 00:11:59,422 --> 00:12:02,782 Speaker 1: white shirt, and that's her classic signature. 253 00:12:02,982 --> 00:12:04,222 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to give her a bit. 254 00:12:04,142 --> 00:12:06,702 Speaker 2: More credit because people are saying I've seen the word 255 00:12:06,942 --> 00:12:10,182 Speaker 2: gas lighting thrown around, which is, we know what happened, 256 00:12:10,182 --> 00:12:12,142 Speaker 2: we know what happened with a copyright, and you're pretending 257 00:12:12,182 --> 00:12:14,582 Speaker 2: like it didn't. I think this is a case of 258 00:12:14,622 --> 00:12:16,702 Speaker 2: two things can be true, like, yes, there was the 259 00:12:16,742 --> 00:12:20,182 Speaker 2: whole copyright issue, but she also might have looked at 260 00:12:20,222 --> 00:12:22,742 Speaker 2: all the back and forth and gone, this isn't worth it. 261 00:12:22,782 --> 00:12:25,662 Speaker 1: I can't say a very long name. 262 00:12:25,942 --> 00:12:28,422 Speaker 2: Yeah, she rethought it, which I had this yesterday. I 263 00:12:28,462 --> 00:12:31,022 Speaker 2: wrote a tagline for a podcast and we worked out 264 00:12:31,022 --> 00:12:33,462 Speaker 2: that there was something incredibly wrong with it, and I 265 00:12:33,502 --> 00:12:34,702 Speaker 2: was like, great, so we pivot. 266 00:12:34,742 --> 00:12:37,381 Speaker 1: Oh no, totally. But my point is to take people 267 00:12:37,422 --> 00:12:40,622 Speaker 1: along with you. What people expect now is pulling back 268 00:12:40,662 --> 00:12:44,422 Speaker 1: the curtain, but in a real way, not going you know. So, 269 00:12:44,542 --> 00:12:46,302 Speaker 1: here's why I changed it. And you're right, that could 270 00:12:46,302 --> 00:12:47,782 Speaker 1: have been part of the reason that she changed it. 271 00:12:47,822 --> 00:12:49,182 Speaker 1: But everybody knows about the track. 272 00:12:49,222 --> 00:12:51,422 Speaker 2: I think we've heard story A and she's like, I'm 273 00:12:51,462 --> 00:12:54,022 Speaker 2: just gonna throw story bas out there. This is my 274 00:12:54,102 --> 00:12:56,902 Speaker 2: concern because she did. Let's not forget that she did 275 00:12:56,942 --> 00:13:00,782 Speaker 2: send the jams out already. She sent the American reviewer. 276 00:13:00,622 --> 00:13:03,422 Speaker 1: Richard Tigue and had them and she on bacon. 277 00:13:03,782 --> 00:13:05,822 Speaker 2: Yeah, and is she going to be My concern is 278 00:13:05,862 --> 00:13:08,462 Speaker 2: that Megan Mirkal becomes the boy who cried Jen No. 279 00:13:08,622 --> 00:13:11,902 Speaker 2: That is a real yeah, because you can't just keep 280 00:13:12,342 --> 00:13:14,982 Speaker 2: sending people jam and expecting them to spruk it. You've 281 00:13:14,982 --> 00:13:15,862 Speaker 2: already used. 282 00:13:15,902 --> 00:13:17,382 Speaker 1: She didn't mention dog treats either. 283 00:13:17,742 --> 00:13:19,462 Speaker 2: I think it's going to be dog treats. I reckon 284 00:13:19,502 --> 00:13:21,502 Speaker 2: it's going to be scented candles. I think we're going 285 00:13:21,542 --> 00:13:23,062 Speaker 2: to have a tetwel and a fancy bas. 286 00:13:23,182 --> 00:13:25,502 Speaker 1: We're not far away from learning what it is. I 287 00:13:25,542 --> 00:13:30,182 Speaker 1: was slightly surprised about the Netflix connection, even though very 288 00:13:30,182 --> 00:13:30,742 Speaker 1: good research. 289 00:13:31,342 --> 00:13:34,462 Speaker 2: So Netflix is launching. I did some reading on it. 290 00:13:34,462 --> 00:13:37,382 Speaker 2: It's like an Amazon storefront, like it's launching a shop. 291 00:13:38,182 --> 00:13:39,262 Speaker 1: You were like, shoppable. 292 00:13:39,462 --> 00:13:40,862 Speaker 2: That's really clever. 293 00:13:40,982 --> 00:13:42,822 Speaker 1: So it'll also get all the affiliate links. 294 00:13:42,942 --> 00:13:43,142 Speaker 2: Yeah. 295 00:13:43,462 --> 00:13:46,822 Speaker 1: Smart. And you know she said word has been leaking out. 296 00:13:46,862 --> 00:13:49,142 Speaker 1: I hadn't heard any words, so I think props to 297 00:13:49,182 --> 00:13:51,502 Speaker 1: her for getting ahead of the new song. 298 00:13:51,662 --> 00:13:54,062 Speaker 3: Apparently a news outlet was going to publish that she 299 00:13:54,222 --> 00:13:56,982 Speaker 3: changed the name, so she was kind of forced into 300 00:13:57,022 --> 00:13:57,662 Speaker 3: it a little bit. 301 00:13:57,902 --> 00:14:00,462 Speaker 2: I liked the euphemism of the century, which was there's 302 00:14:00,502 --> 00:14:02,062 Speaker 2: been a lot of curiosity about my. 303 00:14:01,982 --> 00:14:03,582 Speaker 3: Business, a lot of people asking. 304 00:14:03,342 --> 00:14:05,542 Speaker 2: A lot of asking, like are they asking or are 305 00:14:05,542 --> 00:14:08,462 Speaker 2: they smearing you? In every publication in the entire world. 306 00:14:08,462 --> 00:14:10,782 Speaker 3: But me, I think you're onto something with the idea 307 00:14:10,902 --> 00:14:14,342 Speaker 3: that social media changed in the intervening years when she 308 00:14:14,462 --> 00:14:16,102 Speaker 3: was off it, and it's sort of like, you know 309 00:14:16,142 --> 00:14:19,622 Speaker 3: how people say that your persona is crystallized at the 310 00:14:19,622 --> 00:14:22,902 Speaker 3: time you became famous. At the time she became famous, 311 00:14:23,062 --> 00:14:27,262 Speaker 3: we were doing Instagram grids and CPR shots of a 312 00:14:27,342 --> 00:14:28,862 Speaker 3: vocado toast and latte art. 313 00:14:29,102 --> 00:14:31,502 Speaker 1: That was what we were doing, yes, and putting little 314 00:14:31,502 --> 00:14:32,342 Speaker 1: flowers in ice school. 315 00:14:32,342 --> 00:14:34,582 Speaker 3: Maybe it's some matchra if we were adventurous, but that 316 00:14:34,822 --> 00:14:36,582 Speaker 3: was the vibe back then, and you could call this 317 00:14:36,742 --> 00:14:39,702 Speaker 3: kind of like Instagram grid pr It feels like we've 318 00:14:39,742 --> 00:14:42,702 Speaker 3: moved on to something much looser, and she's trying the 319 00:14:42,782 --> 00:14:45,182 Speaker 3: loose with the Harry kicking off the video, but then 320 00:14:45,222 --> 00:14:45,982 Speaker 3: you got the editing. 321 00:14:46,142 --> 00:14:49,022 Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't want We've also done not just looser, 322 00:14:49,102 --> 00:14:52,062 Speaker 1: but also even Gwyneth Paltrow, who started with look at 323 00:14:52,102 --> 00:14:56,382 Speaker 1: my expensive things, she has to sell these candle smells 324 00:14:56,382 --> 00:14:56,942 Speaker 1: like a vagina. 325 00:14:57,102 --> 00:14:59,102 Speaker 3: She now sells skincaret Target Yeah, and. 326 00:14:59,022 --> 00:15:02,382 Speaker 1: Steaming vaginas because it wasn't enough for her to just 327 00:15:02,422 --> 00:15:03,062 Speaker 1: be fancy. 328 00:15:03,702 --> 00:15:06,702 Speaker 3: She doesn't sell steaming vaginas, I don't think. 329 00:15:06,382 --> 00:15:08,262 Speaker 1: But hot steaming vaginas. 330 00:15:08,702 --> 00:15:09,742 Speaker 2: That is a gap in the mine. 331 00:15:09,862 --> 00:15:10,062 Speaker 5: Yeah. 332 00:15:10,062 --> 00:15:14,102 Speaker 2: Come in a moment, why Elon Musk is suddenly covered 333 00:15:14,142 --> 00:15:17,222 Speaker 2: in kids and the woman who regrets her open marriage 334 00:15:17,262 --> 00:15:19,342 Speaker 2: and says she should have just had an affair instead. 335 00:15:19,502 --> 00:15:21,062 Speaker 2: We discuss after the breaking. 336 00:15:26,782 --> 00:15:28,982 Speaker 3: Every day is take your kids to work day at 337 00:15:28,982 --> 00:15:31,702 Speaker 3: the White House. These days, you've probably seen the pictures 338 00:15:31,742 --> 00:15:34,662 Speaker 3: of Elon Musks striding through the corridors of power in 339 00:15:34,782 --> 00:15:37,262 Speaker 3: Washington with a four year old on his shoulders. 340 00:15:37,302 --> 00:15:39,542 Speaker 1: I have seen that. And also you've been sending me 341 00:15:39,622 --> 00:15:43,982 Speaker 1: links about a conservative influencer who's having his like twenty 342 00:15:43,982 --> 00:15:44,422 Speaker 1: to fifteen. 343 00:15:44,462 --> 00:15:47,022 Speaker 3: I'm obsessed and you're ignoring my lengths and that's hurtful. 344 00:15:47,102 --> 00:15:49,302 Speaker 3: So now I'm going to sit here and explain the 345 00:15:49,342 --> 00:15:51,502 Speaker 3: story to you, okay, while you have no choice in 346 00:15:51,542 --> 00:15:54,502 Speaker 3: the matter. So the kid that Elon is carrying around 347 00:15:54,702 --> 00:15:58,262 Speaker 3: on his shoulders is named Actually, I think we better 348 00:15:58,302 --> 00:15:59,662 Speaker 3: hear from Elon himself on the name. 349 00:15:59,942 --> 00:16:03,302 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just X, the letter X and then 350 00:16:03,982 --> 00:16:10,542 Speaker 2: the AE is pronounced ash. Yeah. Twelve is my contribution. 351 00:16:10,942 --> 00:16:14,502 Speaker 6: Oh y twelve Archangel twelve, the precursor to the s 352 00:16:14,582 --> 00:16:16,222 Speaker 6: R seventy one, coolest plain ever. 353 00:16:17,222 --> 00:16:20,382 Speaker 1: So some people shouldn't be about to make more children 354 00:16:20,502 --> 00:16:21,022 Speaker 1: more visually. 355 00:16:21,062 --> 00:16:23,462 Speaker 3: I only just realized that when he was jumping around 356 00:16:23,542 --> 00:16:26,662 Speaker 3: with Trump on stage during the election campaign, that was 357 00:16:26,702 --> 00:16:29,622 Speaker 3: to create the X shape with his jump. Did you 358 00:16:29,662 --> 00:16:33,302 Speaker 3: realize that now? And it took our entire production staff 359 00:16:33,302 --> 00:16:35,222 Speaker 3: here to nut out their names and ages today and 360 00:16:35,222 --> 00:16:37,582 Speaker 3: we're still not quite sure we've got them straight. Just 361 00:16:37,582 --> 00:16:40,462 Speaker 3: this week, there's been another child announced. Ashley Saint Clair, 362 00:16:40,742 --> 00:16:43,862 Speaker 3: who was a twenty six year old conservative influencer and author, 363 00:16:44,382 --> 00:16:47,462 Speaker 3: said she had masks Baby earlier this year and that 364 00:16:47,542 --> 00:16:50,142 Speaker 3: he has now ghosted her. This is what is no 365 00:16:50,182 --> 00:16:53,102 Speaker 3: one in the business as a leopard face eating situation. 366 00:16:53,622 --> 00:16:54,582 Speaker 2: I've never heard that. 367 00:16:55,582 --> 00:16:58,382 Speaker 3: It means you might think leopards are glorious creatures and 368 00:16:58,502 --> 00:17:01,702 Speaker 3: very dignified and elegant and beautiful, but one day, one day, 369 00:17:01,702 --> 00:17:03,062 Speaker 3: they're going to eat your face. 370 00:17:02,902 --> 00:17:04,502 Speaker 1: And I'll get you close you and they're going to 371 00:17:04,542 --> 00:17:05,141 Speaker 1: eat your face. 372 00:17:05,581 --> 00:17:08,422 Speaker 3: So Ashley and Elon are now squabbling on X the 373 00:17:08,502 --> 00:17:12,142 Speaker 3: social media platform, not the child. Moving back to ex 374 00:17:12,182 --> 00:17:15,022 Speaker 3: achild Ex, a child is in the White House acting 375 00:17:15,022 --> 00:17:17,821 Speaker 3: in all sorts of age appropriate ways, and he also 376 00:17:17,861 --> 00:17:19,421 Speaker 3: appears to have been doing things that a lot of 377 00:17:19,462 --> 00:17:22,341 Speaker 3: world leaders might like to do, like he did appear 378 00:17:22,341 --> 00:17:25,221 Speaker 3: to tell Donald Trump to shush your mouth, and he 379 00:17:25,262 --> 00:17:27,782 Speaker 3: also wiped his snot on Trump's desk. 380 00:17:28,581 --> 00:17:29,462 Speaker 1: So I like him. 381 00:17:29,502 --> 00:17:30,061 Speaker 2: I like him. 382 00:17:30,381 --> 00:17:33,022 Speaker 3: Ex is being a normal kid. That's not up for discussion. 383 00:17:33,061 --> 00:17:34,981 Speaker 3: What I want to talk about today is the adults 384 00:17:35,061 --> 00:17:37,942 Speaker 3: behavior in this Why is Musk doing this and how 385 00:17:37,982 --> 00:17:41,741 Speaker 3: should we feel about it? In The Guardian, Awa Madawi 386 00:17:41,782 --> 00:17:45,022 Speaker 3: had some theories about what she called Musk's pr strategy, 387 00:17:45,141 --> 00:17:47,581 Speaker 3: and she wrote she didn't find it cute. She said, 388 00:17:47,661 --> 00:17:49,901 Speaker 3: having a kid on your shoulders makes you seem less 389 00:17:49,942 --> 00:17:52,341 Speaker 3: like a robber baron with a weird breeding fetish and 390 00:17:52,462 --> 00:17:54,661 Speaker 3: more like a fun dad. But this is what I 391 00:17:54,661 --> 00:17:56,222 Speaker 3: want to bring to you. Could it be a good 392 00:17:56,262 --> 00:17:59,261 Speaker 3: thing to normalize children in all areas of life and 393 00:17:59,302 --> 00:18:02,262 Speaker 3: to highlight look, dads also have to juggle work with parenting. 394 00:18:02,861 --> 00:18:05,542 Speaker 3: And didn't we all celebrate Jacinda when she became the 395 00:18:05,581 --> 00:18:07,861 Speaker 3: first world leader to attend the you in General Assembly 396 00:18:07,982 --> 00:18:08,662 Speaker 3: with a baby? 397 00:18:08,861 --> 00:18:11,061 Speaker 2: Remember how to Sindra Ardun was an elected official. I 398 00:18:11,141 --> 00:18:13,982 Speaker 2: know that was a totally different point. Oh yeah, that yeah. 399 00:18:14,022 --> 00:18:17,141 Speaker 2: That he has referred to X his child. This is 400 00:18:17,182 --> 00:18:19,982 Speaker 2: a quote from Musk as a cuteness prop He's used 401 00:18:19,982 --> 00:18:23,581 Speaker 2: that term. What riles me because I've seen these images 402 00:18:23,621 --> 00:18:27,621 Speaker 2: and I've had to assess my own emotional reaction because 403 00:18:27,661 --> 00:18:31,782 Speaker 2: part of me is thinking the White House government jobs 404 00:18:31,782 --> 00:18:34,302 Speaker 2: for people who still have their jobs are full of 405 00:18:34,422 --> 00:18:36,861 Speaker 2: working parents and they don't get to walk around with 406 00:18:36,901 --> 00:18:39,021 Speaker 2: their kids on their shoulders, and in fact, that's not 407 00:18:39,061 --> 00:18:43,061 Speaker 2: what most of childcare looks like parenting or parenting. I 408 00:18:43,182 --> 00:18:46,941 Speaker 2: remembered that when Elon Musk took over Twitter now X 409 00:18:47,502 --> 00:18:50,661 Speaker 2: he cut paid parentally from twenty weeks to fourteen days, 410 00:18:51,182 --> 00:18:52,181 Speaker 2: and that captured it. 411 00:18:52,182 --> 00:18:53,782 Speaker 3: Today are bringing receipts. 412 00:18:53,901 --> 00:18:57,302 Speaker 2: I'm bringing receipts. That's what I just went. You are 413 00:18:57,341 --> 00:18:59,821 Speaker 2: a business owner. You're telling me that on the floor 414 00:18:59,821 --> 00:19:03,462 Speaker 2: of Tesla, you're gonna let your worker bring in their 415 00:19:03,901 --> 00:19:07,782 Speaker 2: sick kid or if childcare falls through, you have any 416 00:19:07,821 --> 00:19:10,741 Speaker 2: empathy for that? That to me to come in with 417 00:19:10,821 --> 00:19:14,942 Speaker 2: your kids. Firstly, it's a prop and secondly it's taunting Grimes, 418 00:19:15,141 --> 00:19:17,421 Speaker 2: Like I think that the context of his relationship with 419 00:19:17,462 --> 00:19:20,662 Speaker 2: Grimes the mother of this child, he has more legal 420 00:19:20,702 --> 00:19:23,941 Speaker 2: resources than anyone who's ever lived, and he's keeping Grimes 421 00:19:23,982 --> 00:19:27,982 Speaker 2: from that child because he has this relationship. He's sort 422 00:19:27,982 --> 00:19:30,422 Speaker 2: of admitted X is his favorite, like he's prodigy. 423 00:19:30,702 --> 00:19:34,022 Speaker 1: Really yep, so does Grimes not see X? 424 00:19:34,101 --> 00:19:37,221 Speaker 2: No, So he's kept Grimes from his child. They're like 425 00:19:37,302 --> 00:19:40,381 Speaker 2: fighting in court and he says, oh, X mostly lives 426 00:19:40,381 --> 00:19:43,101 Speaker 2: with me. Grimes has said, I want to see my 427 00:19:43,141 --> 00:19:46,502 Speaker 2: own child and has said, I don't want my child 428 00:19:46,542 --> 00:19:49,221 Speaker 2: in public like that, Like I feel deeply uncomfortable with 429 00:19:49,302 --> 00:19:52,581 Speaker 2: his face being publicized. So I think it's taunting her 430 00:19:52,621 --> 00:19:53,141 Speaker 2: on purpose. 431 00:19:53,222 --> 00:19:55,221 Speaker 1: That's extraordinary. I didn't know that. I know that he 432 00:19:55,341 --> 00:19:59,382 Speaker 1: keeps having all of these children with these women, and 433 00:19:59,782 --> 00:20:02,742 Speaker 1: supposedly always by IVF because he doesn't always have romantic 434 00:20:02,782 --> 00:20:06,022 Speaker 1: relationships with them. Even in the case of this conservative 435 00:20:06,061 --> 00:20:08,742 Speaker 1: influencer Ashley Sinclair, she didn't. 436 00:20:08,702 --> 00:20:12,422 Speaker 3: Well, we don't be his girlfriend. No, she didn't claim 437 00:20:12,422 --> 00:20:14,622 Speaker 3: to be his girlfriend. It's interesting, Jesse, I think you're 438 00:20:14,661 --> 00:20:18,141 Speaker 3: onto something with the idea of taunting Grimes because also 439 00:20:18,222 --> 00:20:21,381 Speaker 3: this week he took his twins, Strider and as you were, 440 00:20:21,581 --> 00:20:23,621 Speaker 3: who were three years old, and he had those children 441 00:20:23,702 --> 00:20:27,542 Speaker 3: with chevon Zillis, who seems to be the only woman 442 00:20:27,621 --> 00:20:31,621 Speaker 3: who is now actually seeking out Musk's company. He took 443 00:20:31,982 --> 00:20:34,621 Speaker 3: her and those twins to meet with Indian Prime Minister 444 00:20:34,742 --> 00:20:38,462 Speaker 3: Miranda Modi and the kids were playing on the floor 445 00:20:38,621 --> 00:20:42,221 Speaker 3: as the Indian Prime Minister spoke with an unelected official 446 00:20:42,262 --> 00:20:45,581 Speaker 3: who overstated his student visa in the US, and Chavonne 447 00:20:45,621 --> 00:20:48,221 Speaker 3: was there, and it was really quite a contrast to 448 00:20:48,262 --> 00:20:49,141 Speaker 3: what happened with grime. 449 00:20:49,222 --> 00:20:51,701 Speaker 1: Why is he meeting with what? I mean, I guess 450 00:20:51,422 --> 00:20:54,381 Speaker 1: he's a force onto his own right, But is he 451 00:20:54,422 --> 00:20:56,741 Speaker 1: representing the US government in those meetings or we just 452 00:20:56,742 --> 00:20:57,061 Speaker 1: don't know. 453 00:20:57,182 --> 00:20:57,982 Speaker 3: We just don't know. 454 00:20:58,182 --> 00:21:01,181 Speaker 2: Okay, apparently it had something to do with business stealings, 455 00:21:01,302 --> 00:21:05,022 Speaker 2: but I also think there's something very revealing about business stealings. 456 00:21:05,061 --> 00:21:06,821 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, yeah, they could hope. 457 00:21:06,821 --> 00:21:07,381 Speaker 2: So yeah. 458 00:21:07,982 --> 00:21:08,542 Speaker 3: I like that. 459 00:21:08,581 --> 00:21:10,581 Speaker 2: You just you know, when you have a meeting in 460 00:21:10,621 --> 00:21:12,341 Speaker 2: the Oval office and you're like, I might just have 461 00:21:12,381 --> 00:21:14,942 Speaker 2: it there. Oh and here's my son. But the other 462 00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:18,861 Speaker 2: thing that's very revealing is what his eldest children think 463 00:21:18,861 --> 00:21:22,262 Speaker 2: of him, and they don't want anything to do with 464 00:21:22,742 --> 00:21:24,462 Speaker 2: being in the public eye with him. 465 00:21:24,621 --> 00:21:26,542 Speaker 3: And similar to Brad Pitt's kids. 466 00:21:26,621 --> 00:21:30,181 Speaker 2: Yeah, which I just think that tells you something. Vivian 467 00:21:30,262 --> 00:21:35,101 Speaker 2: Jenna Wilson, who is Elon Musk's daughter, she transitioned. She 468 00:21:35,182 --> 00:21:40,061 Speaker 2: identifies as trans Elon Musk has spoken about her story 469 00:21:40,061 --> 00:21:43,581 Speaker 2: in a way that she has expressed is incredibly hurtful. 470 00:21:43,901 --> 00:21:46,701 Speaker 2: He has politicized it. He's sat there with you know, 471 00:21:46,942 --> 00:21:51,702 Speaker 2: right wing pundits and dead named her. Whatever your politics, 472 00:21:52,341 --> 00:21:53,381 Speaker 2: that's your flesh and blood. 473 00:21:53,542 --> 00:21:55,462 Speaker 1: He has to weaponize the story of his own child. 474 00:21:56,101 --> 00:21:58,621 Speaker 3: Also this week released a video where she explained how 475 00:21:58,742 --> 00:22:01,341 Speaker 3: she learned of the existence of another sibling of hers 476 00:22:01,422 --> 00:22:01,981 Speaker 3: on Reddit. 477 00:22:02,381 --> 00:22:04,742 Speaker 2: Yeah, they all find out, and that's what she says, 478 00:22:04,861 --> 00:22:06,982 Speaker 2: is that she talks about a really you know, dire 479 00:22:07,101 --> 00:22:09,861 Speaker 2: childhood and also you learn about siblings in the head lines. 480 00:22:10,182 --> 00:22:13,061 Speaker 1: We've spoken about Brian Johnson on this show before, the 481 00:22:13,101 --> 00:22:16,262 Speaker 1: guy who's trying to buio hack his whole body and 482 00:22:16,302 --> 00:22:20,222 Speaker 1: live forever. This whole thing with having lots and lots. 483 00:22:20,061 --> 00:22:21,742 Speaker 2: Of children pronatalism. 484 00:22:21,942 --> 00:22:23,061 Speaker 1: Can you explain that. 485 00:22:23,222 --> 00:22:26,182 Speaker 2: The thing with the tech bros seems to be almost 486 00:22:26,182 --> 00:22:28,821 Speaker 2: a eugenic The world needs more elands. 487 00:22:29,182 --> 00:22:31,702 Speaker 3: Yeah. So this is a movement that started in Silicon 488 00:22:31,821 --> 00:22:35,581 Speaker 3: Valley a few years ago, and basically its proponents are 489 00:22:35,621 --> 00:22:39,061 Speaker 3: convinced that low birth rates are the greatest danger to civilization. 490 00:22:39,182 --> 00:22:42,302 Speaker 3: Forget climate change, we need more vehicles. 491 00:22:42,141 --> 00:22:44,182 Speaker 2: Which it has a grain of truth to it, though 492 00:22:44,222 --> 00:22:46,902 Speaker 2: our declining birth rate taxes is an issue. 493 00:22:46,742 --> 00:22:49,542 Speaker 3: And in particular self appointed smart people need to have 494 00:22:49,621 --> 00:22:52,182 Speaker 3: more children to ensure the survival of the human race. 495 00:22:52,341 --> 00:22:54,742 Speaker 3: Mask actually said it a summit last year. If people 496 00:22:54,782 --> 00:22:58,101 Speaker 3: don't have more children, civilization is going to crumble mark 497 00:22:58,222 --> 00:23:01,742 Speaker 3: my words. So I think there's something a little sinister 498 00:23:01,821 --> 00:23:02,382 Speaker 3: in this too. 499 00:23:02,702 --> 00:23:04,941 Speaker 1: Well. Also is very different when you're in l on 500 00:23:05,022 --> 00:23:07,622 Speaker 1: Musk and you can have lots of children versus someone 501 00:23:07,901 --> 00:23:12,302 Speaker 1: who has no health insurance, yeah, and can't pay chi 502 00:23:12,782 --> 00:23:14,061 Speaker 1: and can't pay for charter. 503 00:23:13,942 --> 00:23:17,341 Speaker 3: Or apparently he's not helping allegedly not helping Ashley out 504 00:23:17,381 --> 00:23:19,181 Speaker 3: with any of her childcare expenses. 505 00:23:19,502 --> 00:23:22,261 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a like a process like a submissions, 506 00:23:22,262 --> 00:23:25,421 Speaker 1: if there's just an email address that you apply to 507 00:23:26,101 --> 00:23:29,302 Speaker 1: just for some of his sperm, and if anyone vets it, 508 00:23:29,462 --> 00:23:31,422 Speaker 1: or it's just pretty much like if you want it, 509 00:23:31,462 --> 00:23:31,982 Speaker 1: here you go. 510 00:23:32,982 --> 00:23:35,902 Speaker 2: Apparently we're not wearing Apple watches on our wrists anymore, 511 00:23:35,942 --> 00:23:38,941 Speaker 2: and Amelia clearly didn't get the memo. So The New 512 00:23:39,022 --> 00:23:41,861 Speaker 2: York Times published a story this month with the headline 513 00:23:41,901 --> 00:23:45,461 Speaker 2: an ankle monitor, No, that's my Apple Watch. The reason 514 00:23:45,581 --> 00:23:48,581 Speaker 2: is that apparently it improves step tracking. I've found this 515 00:23:48,661 --> 00:23:51,102 Speaker 2: with pushing a pram. It doesn't get my steps in 516 00:23:51,302 --> 00:23:54,821 Speaker 2: and your hand. Yeah, I think treadmill desks and that 517 00:23:54,861 --> 00:23:57,581 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, you're not getting steps. In certain professions. 518 00:23:57,581 --> 00:24:00,022 Speaker 2: You can't wear a watch like a nurse like a surgeon. 519 00:24:00,502 --> 00:24:02,141 Speaker 1: But you can tuck it like a hand model. 520 00:24:02,222 --> 00:24:05,181 Speaker 2: In exactly, you can put it on your ankle. Tattoos 521 00:24:05,381 --> 00:24:07,501 Speaker 2: mess up with the heart rate sensor, and a lot 522 00:24:07,502 --> 00:24:10,421 Speaker 2: of people have press tattoos. Yeah, and final reason is 523 00:24:10,462 --> 00:24:13,262 Speaker 2: personal style. I have a friend who tells me that 524 00:24:13,302 --> 00:24:15,262 Speaker 2: my Apple watch makes me look like a spy kid. 525 00:24:15,821 --> 00:24:17,981 Speaker 2: And she said that her greatest fear kept drop at 526 00:24:18,061 --> 00:24:20,222 Speaker 2: night was the idea of me walking down the aisle 527 00:24:20,262 --> 00:24:22,022 Speaker 2: with my Apple Watch on because she knew I wanted. 528 00:24:22,341 --> 00:24:24,502 Speaker 3: It's not true, you are a bit of a spy kid. 529 00:24:24,702 --> 00:24:26,742 Speaker 2: I really like it. And to this day, I don't 530 00:24:26,742 --> 00:24:28,661 Speaker 2: know wedding day, how many steps. I don't know if 531 00:24:28,702 --> 00:24:32,061 Speaker 2: it was a good day, if it was a bad day. Now, Amelia, 532 00:24:32,262 --> 00:24:33,981 Speaker 2: will you be moving your watch to your ankle? 533 00:24:34,581 --> 00:24:37,702 Speaker 3: No, I won't be. Despite the fact that Mia has 534 00:24:37,861 --> 00:24:40,341 Speaker 3: issued a fashion edict that I need to get a 535 00:24:40,381 --> 00:24:42,182 Speaker 3: new wristband. 536 00:24:42,141 --> 00:24:43,581 Speaker 1: Like the color of a dead body. 537 00:24:43,581 --> 00:24:44,661 Speaker 3: The color of a dead body. 538 00:24:44,742 --> 00:24:47,942 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's made of I don't know, plastic. 539 00:24:48,061 --> 00:24:49,742 Speaker 2: I think it's the color maybe of a brain. 540 00:24:50,462 --> 00:24:53,181 Speaker 1: Could be she's doing it a little secret flex. I 541 00:24:53,262 --> 00:24:58,141 Speaker 1: funnily enough, just moved to a cassio old fashioned digital watch. 542 00:24:58,262 --> 00:24:59,742 Speaker 2: Have you considered wearing that on your ankle? 543 00:24:59,861 --> 00:25:01,901 Speaker 1: No, but I might now that I'm not using my 544 00:25:02,061 --> 00:25:04,101 Speaker 1: Apple Watch on my wrists so much anymore, maybe I'll 545 00:25:04,141 --> 00:25:06,502 Speaker 1: strap it to my ankle. A little bit tricky to 546 00:25:06,581 --> 00:25:09,101 Speaker 1: look at the time or to use Siri. 547 00:25:09,581 --> 00:25:12,061 Speaker 3: It's true, maybe look. The whole reason they have this 548 00:25:12,182 --> 00:25:15,381 Speaker 3: is mostly for the whole time telling element. 549 00:25:15,782 --> 00:25:18,901 Speaker 1: So I wonder if the double advantage is that you 550 00:25:19,262 --> 00:25:22,462 Speaker 1: become a little bit more bendy because you constantly. 551 00:25:22,302 --> 00:25:24,061 Speaker 2: I want a strap that says this is not an 552 00:25:24,061 --> 00:25:27,061 Speaker 2: angle monitor, because it does look that's exactly. 553 00:25:26,821 --> 00:25:28,381 Speaker 1: And I like people to think that I was maybe 554 00:25:28,422 --> 00:25:34,381 Speaker 1: an escaped prisoner evading home detention at loud As. I 555 00:25:34,422 --> 00:25:37,101 Speaker 1: know it's only February, but who needs a little break 556 00:25:37,141 --> 00:25:39,581 Speaker 1: and a little treat Because Mamma Mayo is giving away 557 00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:43,501 Speaker 1: a luxurious seven night cruise with Princess for two valued 558 00:25:43,581 --> 00:25:46,461 Speaker 1: at over three thousand dollars. 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If you are 567 00:26:10,782 --> 00:26:14,422 Speaker 2: already a subscriber, you are already in the running. 568 00:26:14,182 --> 00:26:15,101 Speaker 1: Do Nothing prize. 569 00:26:15,182 --> 00:26:17,742 Speaker 2: Draw is on the fourth of March. Teaes and seasupply. 570 00:26:18,101 --> 00:26:20,982 Speaker 1: After the break. Why twenty twenty five is the year 571 00:26:21,022 --> 00:26:23,061 Speaker 1: of the Open Marriage. 572 00:26:22,982 --> 00:26:26,942 Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday 573 00:26:26,942 --> 00:26:31,462 Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively from Muma Maya. Subscribers follow the link 574 00:26:31,502 --> 00:26:33,461 Speaker 2: in the show notes to get us in your ears 575 00:26:33,581 --> 00:26:36,181 Speaker 2: five days a week and a huge thank you to 576 00:26:36,262 --> 00:26:47,261 Speaker 2: all our current subscribers. 577 00:26:48,901 --> 00:26:51,621 Speaker 1: Just like barrel leg jeans, open marriages appear to be 578 00:26:51,702 --> 00:26:55,942 Speaker 1: having a moment. Nearly one in three unmarried Americans report 579 00:26:56,141 --> 00:27:01,382 Speaker 1: having been in a consensually non monogamous relationship at some point, 580 00:27:01,702 --> 00:27:06,302 Speaker 1: so consensual non monogamy or an open marriage or polyamory 581 00:27:06,581 --> 00:27:10,582 Speaker 1: is distinct from cheating, which usually happens secret where only 582 00:27:10,621 --> 00:27:14,181 Speaker 1: one person knows about it. In Australia, there was a 583 00:27:14,381 --> 00:27:17,221 Speaker 1: survey in twenty twenty three of fifty thousand people, and 584 00:27:17,222 --> 00:27:20,861 Speaker 1: that revealed about one point four of them were currently 585 00:27:21,542 --> 00:27:24,941 Speaker 1: in an open relationship, so it's definitely growing. And dating 586 00:27:24,942 --> 00:27:28,141 Speaker 1: apps like Field say that they have seen up to 587 00:27:28,182 --> 00:27:31,701 Speaker 1: a five hundred percent increase in users, including terms like 588 00:27:31,742 --> 00:27:36,061 Speaker 1: ethically non monogamous, or polyamorous or open in their profiles, 589 00:27:36,101 --> 00:27:39,542 Speaker 1: and OkCupid has also reported similar growth. There's a lot 590 00:27:39,581 --> 00:27:42,181 Speaker 1: of gossip about high profile figures in the media and 591 00:27:42,262 --> 00:27:46,701 Speaker 1: Hollywood about who is in an open relationship that we 592 00:27:46,821 --> 00:27:50,461 Speaker 1: cannot repeat here. But the question is is it a 593 00:27:50,502 --> 00:27:53,742 Speaker 1: good idea? Well maybe for some, but not for everybody. 594 00:27:53,782 --> 00:27:55,821 Speaker 1: There was an essay in the Cut this week called 595 00:27:56,141 --> 00:27:58,621 Speaker 1: I Opened my marriage Maybe I should have tried an 596 00:27:58,661 --> 00:28:03,302 Speaker 1: affair instead, by a writer called Haley Moltech, and she 597 00:28:03,462 --> 00:28:06,262 Speaker 1: wrote about her experience. She got married to her high 598 00:28:06,262 --> 00:28:08,101 Speaker 1: school sweetheart. She'd been dating this guy since they was 599 00:28:08,141 --> 00:28:11,181 Speaker 1: boy sixteen, and a few months into their marriage in 600 00:28:11,262 --> 00:28:15,021 Speaker 1: that first year, they opened it up. And writing about 601 00:28:15,061 --> 00:28:18,782 Speaker 1: how she explored her motivation to do this, she wrote, 602 00:28:19,222 --> 00:28:21,061 Speaker 1: there was a real desire at the beginning of my 603 00:28:21,101 --> 00:28:24,222 Speaker 1: attempts at an open marriage. That desire fit perfectly over 604 00:28:24,262 --> 00:28:26,581 Speaker 1: what I was too afraid to admit that I wanted 605 00:28:26,581 --> 00:28:29,061 Speaker 1: a feeling more than I wanted anything else, that I 606 00:28:29,101 --> 00:28:32,061 Speaker 1: wanted it so badly, but somehow not badly enough to 607 00:28:32,101 --> 00:28:36,222 Speaker 1: do anything smart or kind for everyone involved and leave 608 00:28:36,302 --> 00:28:39,582 Speaker 1: my marriage. I thought that was so interesting, And then 609 00:28:39,702 --> 00:28:43,142 Speaker 1: she sort of talks more about is it infidelity to 610 00:28:43,142 --> 00:28:45,582 Speaker 1: have a flicker of desire for another person or to 611 00:28:45,661 --> 00:28:48,461 Speaker 1: foster an unexpected crush. Did I want the right to 612 00:28:48,502 --> 00:28:50,701 Speaker 1: act on every impulse or did I only want to 613 00:28:50,702 --> 00:28:53,742 Speaker 1: retain the right to a realm of feeling that remained 614 00:28:53,782 --> 00:28:55,781 Speaker 1: my own. If what we need is a secret, then 615 00:28:55,822 --> 00:28:58,142 Speaker 1: there's no form of communication that will help. If what 616 00:28:58,182 --> 00:29:00,421 Speaker 1: we need is freedom, then there is no form of 617 00:29:00,462 --> 00:29:04,982 Speaker 1: forever we can trust. Amelia, why do you think there 618 00:29:05,062 --> 00:29:08,342 Speaker 1: is this movement now to open marriages? What's different about 619 00:29:08,342 --> 00:29:11,382 Speaker 1: this point in time stick of the partners they might 620 00:29:11,422 --> 00:29:12,622 Speaker 1: have been within the pandemic. 621 00:29:12,942 --> 00:29:15,262 Speaker 3: I do think there's been a real seed change. Obviously, 622 00:29:15,342 --> 00:29:19,862 Speaker 3: non monogamous relationships have always existed. But I kept thinking 623 00:29:19,862 --> 00:29:22,062 Speaker 3: about do you remember that iconic scene and when Harry 624 00:29:22,062 --> 00:29:24,502 Speaker 3: met Sally, which is, by the way, twenty five years old. Now, 625 00:29:24,942 --> 00:29:28,382 Speaker 3: Carrie Fisher's character is in bed with her husband, and 626 00:29:28,462 --> 00:29:31,942 Speaker 3: both of them have fielded calls from Meg Ryan and 627 00:29:32,182 --> 00:29:35,822 Speaker 3: Billy Crystal about how awful dating is. And Carrie Fisher 628 00:29:35,902 --> 00:29:39,262 Speaker 3: turns to her husband and she says, tell me, I'll 629 00:29:39,262 --> 00:29:42,262 Speaker 3: never have to be out there again. And her husband says, 630 00:29:42,262 --> 00:29:44,102 Speaker 3: You'll never have to be out there again, and he 631 00:29:44,142 --> 00:29:46,421 Speaker 3: puts an arm around her. And the whole point is 632 00:29:46,702 --> 00:29:50,661 Speaker 3: dating is awful. The whole point of getting someone is 633 00:29:50,702 --> 00:29:53,582 Speaker 3: that you don't have to keep dating. And what's interesting 634 00:29:53,622 --> 00:29:56,062 Speaker 3: about that article is I thought it was a wonderfully 635 00:29:56,062 --> 00:29:58,142 Speaker 3: written article and it really gave me an insight into 636 00:29:58,142 --> 00:30:01,142 Speaker 3: why people do this. But they had been together since 637 00:30:01,222 --> 00:30:04,542 Speaker 3: high school, and I wonder if there's some element in 638 00:30:04,622 --> 00:30:07,462 Speaker 3: relationships which have been going for so long from such 639 00:30:07,502 --> 00:30:10,022 Speaker 3: a young age, where it's only natural that you might 640 00:30:10,062 --> 00:30:11,661 Speaker 3: get to the point where you need a bit of 641 00:30:11,742 --> 00:30:13,062 Speaker 3: novelty and things. 642 00:30:13,222 --> 00:30:16,822 Speaker 1: And exploring other versions of yourself, because something that people 643 00:30:16,862 --> 00:30:20,782 Speaker 1: talk about in long term relationships is that you don't 644 00:30:20,822 --> 00:30:23,502 Speaker 1: always like what you see when you look at yourself 645 00:30:23,542 --> 00:30:27,741 Speaker 1: through that person's eyes because of the drudgery and the 646 00:30:27,902 --> 00:30:30,502 Speaker 1: history of everything you've been together, which in some ways 647 00:30:30,542 --> 00:30:36,062 Speaker 1: is intimacy. But as Esther Perel says that familiarity can 648 00:30:36,142 --> 00:30:39,781 Speaker 1: breed out desire. So I think that as awful as 649 00:30:39,822 --> 00:30:42,582 Speaker 1: you say dating is, I think what can be attractive 650 00:30:43,302 --> 00:30:46,102 Speaker 1: about it to people who've been in long term relationships 651 00:30:46,222 --> 00:30:47,702 Speaker 1: is that excitement. 652 00:30:47,902 --> 00:30:51,062 Speaker 3: Yeah, breed out desire is a perfect explanation for the 653 00:30:51,102 --> 00:30:53,062 Speaker 3: look my husband gave me this morning when I asked 654 00:30:53,142 --> 00:30:55,062 Speaker 3: him to clean the kitchen on my way out the door. 655 00:30:55,462 --> 00:30:58,181 Speaker 2: Yeah, you see too much of someone. And I think 656 00:30:58,422 --> 00:31:01,421 Speaker 2: sometimes it's actually the desire to have a secret. And 657 00:31:01,462 --> 00:31:04,942 Speaker 2: that's what I was thinking reading this, is that if 658 00:31:04,982 --> 00:31:08,421 Speaker 2: you have an open marriage, that it isn't scratched, because 659 00:31:08,462 --> 00:31:11,102 Speaker 2: then you have to have all these awkward conversation She 660 00:31:11,142 --> 00:31:15,142 Speaker 2: writes about the language, the corny and embarrassing language that 661 00:31:15,182 --> 00:31:18,582 Speaker 2: you have to use, that's all about boundary setting and 662 00:31:18,661 --> 00:31:21,542 Speaker 2: the rules and all that, which isn't very sexy. So 663 00:31:21,622 --> 00:31:23,502 Speaker 2: I think that for a lot of people it doesn't work. 664 00:31:23,702 --> 00:31:26,302 Speaker 2: And I've always thought, I think this is sort of 665 00:31:26,302 --> 00:31:29,741 Speaker 2: what the writer was talking about, that if you have 666 00:31:29,782 --> 00:31:33,062 Speaker 2: an open marriage, or if you have an affair, then 667 00:31:33,542 --> 00:31:36,382 Speaker 2: you often fall into a state of something called limerence 668 00:31:36,622 --> 00:31:39,742 Speaker 2: with someone. So if I was in an open marriage 669 00:31:39,742 --> 00:31:41,941 Speaker 2: and I went and met someone in an ideal world, 670 00:31:42,102 --> 00:31:45,342 Speaker 2: I could keep this kind of world spinning, and that's 671 00:31:45,382 --> 00:31:47,062 Speaker 2: all great, And then I go and dip out of 672 00:31:47,102 --> 00:31:51,142 Speaker 2: this when it suits me. That's not how desire works. 673 00:31:51,462 --> 00:31:53,862 Speaker 2: Like Limerens. This thing that you get in the really 674 00:31:53,902 --> 00:31:57,661 Speaker 2: early stages of a relationship with someone, the butterflies that 675 00:31:57,782 --> 00:32:02,382 Speaker 2: can't sleep, the obsession, las satuation. The last has to 676 00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:07,142 Speaker 2: take like it has to take from something. And if 677 00:32:07,182 --> 00:32:09,981 Speaker 2: that's what you're after, I think it's like it is 678 00:32:10,022 --> 00:32:11,542 Speaker 2: like a finite pie. 679 00:32:11,622 --> 00:32:15,742 Speaker 1: Here's what Esther Parrel, the relationships expert and guru, said 680 00:32:15,902 --> 00:32:20,741 Speaker 1: about why modern relationships and modern monogamy is just not 681 00:32:20,982 --> 00:32:22,622 Speaker 1: the answer for everybody anymore. 682 00:32:22,942 --> 00:32:23,022 Speaker 5: So. 683 00:32:23,182 --> 00:32:26,342 Speaker 6: Reconciling our need for security and our need for adventure 684 00:32:26,422 --> 00:32:29,542 Speaker 6: into one relationship, or what we today like to call 685 00:32:29,582 --> 00:32:32,942 Speaker 6: a passionate marriage, used to be a contradiction. In terms, 686 00:32:33,702 --> 00:32:38,421 Speaker 6: marriage was an economic institution in which you were given 687 00:32:38,462 --> 00:32:42,022 Speaker 6: a partnership for life in terms of children and social 688 00:32:42,062 --> 00:32:47,261 Speaker 6: status and succession and companionship. But now we want our 689 00:32:47,302 --> 00:32:50,502 Speaker 6: partner to still give us all these things. But in addition, 690 00:32:50,582 --> 00:32:52,502 Speaker 6: I want you to be my best friend and my 691 00:32:52,622 --> 00:32:55,461 Speaker 6: trusted confidant and my passionate lover to boot and we 692 00:32:55,502 --> 00:32:58,382 Speaker 6: live twice as long. So we come to one person 693 00:32:58,822 --> 00:33:01,342 Speaker 6: and we basically are asking them to give us what 694 00:33:01,462 --> 00:33:03,462 Speaker 6: wants an entire village used to provide. 695 00:33:03,902 --> 00:33:07,222 Speaker 1: Is this idea of why open marriages are becoming more 696 00:33:07,222 --> 00:33:11,022 Speaker 1: popular just because for some people they're accepting that they 697 00:33:11,062 --> 00:33:13,221 Speaker 1: can't get everything from one person and it's healthy. 698 00:33:13,462 --> 00:33:16,302 Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought that this Esther Perel remark was really 699 00:33:16,302 --> 00:33:18,862 Speaker 3: interesting because I think often the knock on an open 700 00:33:18,902 --> 00:33:22,462 Speaker 3: marriage is that it is a way of essentially ending 701 00:33:22,502 --> 00:33:24,902 Speaker 3: the marriage. It's sort of like a stop gap on 702 00:33:24,942 --> 00:33:27,262 Speaker 3: the way to accepting the inevitable that the marriage has 703 00:33:27,342 --> 00:33:30,741 Speaker 3: run its course. But what I think Parrel is saying 704 00:33:30,942 --> 00:33:33,622 Speaker 3: is that it doesn't have to be like that. In fact, 705 00:33:33,622 --> 00:33:37,262 Speaker 3: it can be a way to ensure the relationships survival 706 00:33:37,342 --> 00:33:40,421 Speaker 3: by taking the pressure off your romantic partner now that 707 00:33:40,462 --> 00:33:43,102 Speaker 3: we expect them to be everything. It's a way of 708 00:33:43,182 --> 00:33:46,582 Speaker 3: turning outwoods rather than caving in on each other. And 709 00:33:46,622 --> 00:33:48,862 Speaker 3: I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing this 710 00:33:49,182 --> 00:33:53,262 Speaker 3: profusion of open marriages at a time when childcare has 711 00:33:53,342 --> 00:33:57,262 Speaker 3: become reduced to often just what the nuclear family can offer. 712 00:33:57,782 --> 00:34:01,542 Speaker 3: So you are running a daycare and a nonprofit daycare 713 00:34:01,661 --> 00:34:04,942 Speaker 3: in addition to trying to keep some kind of romantic 714 00:34:05,022 --> 00:34:05,701 Speaker 3: spark alive. 715 00:34:06,262 --> 00:34:09,062 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Esther Perel also says that there are two 716 00:34:09,102 --> 00:34:12,542 Speaker 2: different times of relationships. One focuses on exclusiveness that's really 717 00:34:12,542 --> 00:34:16,262 Speaker 2: critical to some people's sense of what makes a romantic relationship, 718 00:34:16,302 --> 00:34:18,502 Speaker 2: and the other is uniqueness. And if you believe that 719 00:34:18,542 --> 00:34:21,021 Speaker 2: you have something unique with that partner, then it doesn't 720 00:34:21,062 --> 00:34:25,462 Speaker 2: matter if there are other partners involved too. But I 721 00:34:25,502 --> 00:34:28,942 Speaker 2: also thought, you know, the writer said non monogamy works 722 00:34:29,022 --> 00:34:31,102 Speaker 2: just about as well as monogamy does, which is not 723 00:34:31,261 --> 00:34:34,381 Speaker 2: very Whether or not she opened her marriage, would this 724 00:34:34,462 --> 00:34:38,062 Speaker 2: relationship have ended. Probably, It's hard to tell whether any 725 00:34:38,062 --> 00:34:40,622 Speaker 2: of this works because relationships end every day for all 726 00:34:40,622 --> 00:34:41,942 Speaker 2: different types of reasons. 727 00:34:42,302 --> 00:34:44,661 Speaker 3: And also, I don't think that it's a coincidence either 728 00:34:44,741 --> 00:34:47,741 Speaker 3: that what I've been hearing from people anecdotally in my 729 00:34:47,822 --> 00:34:50,341 Speaker 3: circles is that they're opening their marriages at the time 730 00:34:50,342 --> 00:34:52,221 Speaker 3: that they have little kids. And to me, at first, 731 00:34:52,221 --> 00:34:54,422 Speaker 3: that was really confusing because they thought that there's no 732 00:34:54,542 --> 00:34:57,622 Speaker 3: time or energy at that point. But maybe that's exactly 733 00:34:57,661 --> 00:34:59,582 Speaker 3: why they're doing it then, because there are so many 734 00:34:59,622 --> 00:35:03,102 Speaker 3: demands on their time and they're feeling so stretched in 735 00:35:03,142 --> 00:35:05,542 Speaker 3: their relationship that they need to outsource. 736 00:35:06,022 --> 00:35:08,381 Speaker 1: And are you feeling sexy when you've got little kids 737 00:35:08,462 --> 00:35:10,982 Speaker 1: or is that the whole point that you see yourself 738 00:35:11,221 --> 00:35:16,022 Speaker 1: in your partner's eyes as a mother? Yeah, and obviously 739 00:35:16,062 --> 00:35:17,462 Speaker 1: you know your children are a lot of you. So 740 00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:19,861 Speaker 1: to me, that was my strongest time of identity as 741 00:35:19,862 --> 00:35:21,502 Speaker 1: a mother and my biggest what do you call it 742 00:35:21,542 --> 00:35:25,782 Speaker 1: mattressence when I went from being a woman to being 743 00:35:25,822 --> 00:35:28,261 Speaker 1: a mother. And do you think that people are opening 744 00:35:28,342 --> 00:35:30,942 Speaker 1: up their marriages at that point because by being with 745 00:35:30,982 --> 00:35:34,062 Speaker 1: someone outside of that family, Yes. 746 00:35:33,982 --> 00:35:35,181 Speaker 2: They don't have to be the mother. 747 00:35:35,342 --> 00:35:37,102 Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to be the mother, you know, 748 00:35:37,221 --> 00:35:39,822 Speaker 1: you get to be just the sexy woman again. 749 00:35:40,022 --> 00:35:42,862 Speaker 3: But I was intrigued by the legitimatics of it, because 750 00:35:43,022 --> 00:35:44,741 Speaker 3: you know, you've got to account for every minute of 751 00:35:44,781 --> 00:35:46,741 Speaker 3: your time when you have little kids. And so I've 752 00:35:46,781 --> 00:35:49,062 Speaker 3: been asking how people do it, and then apparently the 753 00:35:49,062 --> 00:35:53,342 Speaker 3: most common way of handling it in a heterosexual couple 754 00:35:53,902 --> 00:35:57,221 Speaker 3: where they have children is that one partner does one 755 00:35:57,261 --> 00:35:59,501 Speaker 3: week with the kids and then the other goes off 756 00:35:59,582 --> 00:36:02,542 Speaker 3: for their sort of fantasy life and the enactment of 757 00:36:02,582 --> 00:36:05,302 Speaker 3: that for a week and then they swap back again. 758 00:36:05,542 --> 00:36:07,741 Speaker 1: We know that the divorce rates going up and up. 759 00:36:08,382 --> 00:36:09,381 Speaker 2: I thought it wasn't well. 760 00:36:09,382 --> 00:36:12,261 Speaker 3: Interestingly, the marriage rate, which I didn't realize this, has 761 00:36:12,261 --> 00:36:15,062 Speaker 3: been declining for five decades. There was this little bump 762 00:36:15,181 --> 00:36:18,542 Speaker 3: after COVID, but now it's still going down again. People 763 00:36:18,781 --> 00:36:21,461 Speaker 3: I think disenchanted with the whole idea, and also life 764 00:36:21,462 --> 00:36:23,941 Speaker 3: expectancy is esther for all points that has gone up 765 00:36:24,062 --> 00:36:24,822 Speaker 3: at the same time. 766 00:36:25,102 --> 00:36:29,102 Speaker 1: What's interesting is that the demographics where this is most popular, 767 00:36:29,261 --> 00:36:33,782 Speaker 1: unsurprisingly is young people and in queer communities. So Dad Savage, 768 00:36:33,781 --> 00:36:37,542 Speaker 1: who's a very well known sex and relationship agony uncle, 769 00:36:37,582 --> 00:36:40,582 Speaker 1: I guess he has for many decades been very open 770 00:36:40,582 --> 00:36:44,341 Speaker 1: about the fact that he's in a monogamish relationship is 771 00:36:44,542 --> 00:36:46,701 Speaker 1: how he calls it, and he talks about how in 772 00:36:46,741 --> 00:36:49,381 Speaker 1: the gay community that's actually quite common in the male 773 00:36:49,422 --> 00:36:54,701 Speaker 1: gay community, and in queer communities that's also become more 774 00:36:54,741 --> 00:36:57,422 Speaker 1: common than perhaps among straight people. 775 00:36:57,622 --> 00:37:00,341 Speaker 2: I think queer communities have had this incredible freedom to 776 00:37:00,582 --> 00:37:03,382 Speaker 2: make their own rules, and straight people are learning a. 777 00:37:03,342 --> 00:37:03,941 Speaker 1: Lot from them. 778 00:37:03,982 --> 00:37:06,741 Speaker 2: Yeah, a big thank you to all of you. The 779 00:37:06,781 --> 00:37:09,701 Speaker 2: out louders for listening to today's show and our fabulous 780 00:37:09,741 --> 00:37:12,661 Speaker 2: team for putting this show together. We will be back 781 00:37:12,701 --> 00:37:14,462 Speaker 2: in your ears tomorrow. 782 00:37:14,102 --> 00:37:16,542 Speaker 1: But before we go, if you can't get enough of 783 00:37:16,582 --> 00:37:18,821 Speaker 1: Apple Side of Vinegar and Jesse, you said that it's 784 00:37:18,862 --> 00:37:20,661 Speaker 1: now number three on Netflix globally. 785 00:37:21,022 --> 00:37:22,942 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going off all around the world. It's been 786 00:37:22,982 --> 00:37:25,982 Speaker 2: really interesting to watch the US process this story. But 787 00:37:25,982 --> 00:37:28,422 Speaker 2: it's number one in Highland, number one in New Zealand. 788 00:37:28,542 --> 00:37:30,902 Speaker 1: You told me another fun fact about one of the 789 00:37:30,942 --> 00:37:31,781 Speaker 1: stars of the show. 790 00:37:31,942 --> 00:37:34,661 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Okay, you know Lucy. I haven't told 791 00:37:34,661 --> 00:37:37,062 Speaker 2: you this yet a million you know. Oh, you haven't 792 00:37:37,062 --> 00:37:39,622 Speaker 2: watched the show. But Lucy, who made much to you, 793 00:37:40,181 --> 00:37:43,261 Speaker 2: stars as woman who's living with cancer and doing the 794 00:37:43,261 --> 00:37:49,462 Speaker 2: traditional therapies. She is the girlfriend of Dev Patel. Oh wow, 795 00:37:49,542 --> 00:37:50,142 Speaker 2: I didn't think. 796 00:37:49,982 --> 00:37:51,902 Speaker 1: I know, the wife of one of the journalist and 797 00:37:51,982 --> 00:37:55,022 Speaker 1: she's Ozzy and Ozzie is with that and they've been 798 00:37:55,062 --> 00:37:57,102 Speaker 1: together for almost ten years, A long time. 799 00:37:57,382 --> 00:37:57,821 Speaker 2: I love it. 800 00:37:57,862 --> 00:38:00,862 Speaker 1: Anyway, where was I? So we can't get enough of 801 00:38:01,062 --> 00:38:04,142 Speaker 1: this show and the Bell Gibson story, So we have 802 00:38:04,462 --> 00:38:08,142 Speaker 1: unpacked the actual story. We've spoken a lot on the 803 00:38:08,302 --> 00:38:11,622 Speaker 1: show about and aspects of this story, but in terms 804 00:38:11,661 --> 00:38:14,542 Speaker 1: of our review of the show itself and our recap, 805 00:38:14,902 --> 00:38:19,221 Speaker 1: we've recorded a whole subscriber episode and it includes the 806 00:38:19,302 --> 00:38:22,701 Speaker 1: scenes that we love the most, the actors, the script 807 00:38:22,701 --> 00:38:24,382 Speaker 1: to all of it. We will put a link to 808 00:38:24,462 --> 00:38:27,342 Speaker 1: that episode in the show notes and we'll see you tomorrow. 809 00:38:27,542 --> 00:38:31,942 Speaker 2: Bye bye. Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. 810 00:38:32,221 --> 00:38:34,341 Speaker 2: If you love the show and you want to support us, 811 00:38:34,622 --> 00:38:37,502 Speaker 2: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to 812 00:38:37,582 --> 00:38:40,022 Speaker 2: do so. There's a link in the episode description.