WEBVTT - Golden Retriever Dads & The ‘You Come Last’ Rule 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast. 0:00:20.954 --> 0:00:23.914 Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who 0:00:23.914 --> 0:00:28.274 don't always listen to parenting podcasts. Do we think we're 0:00:28.314 --> 0:00:31.234 better than the other parenting podcast I'm not sure, but 0:00:31.394 --> 0:00:34.473 we might sometimes because where you try to bring you 0:00:34.513 --> 0:00:36.313 sort of the news and the trends and the culture 0:00:36.793 --> 0:00:39.354 rather than the toilet training tips. 0:00:39.994 --> 0:00:42.313 I'm Monique Bowley, I'm Amelia Lester. 0:00:42.273 --> 0:00:43.434 And I'm Claire Stevens. 0:00:43.513 --> 0:00:47.353 Hey thoughts impressed to anyone camping this easter? Just like, 0:00:47.634 --> 0:00:50.274 hope it's going well for you. Hope the weather's holding out, 0:00:50.513 --> 0:00:51.954 Hope the petrol tanks are full. 0:00:52.674 --> 0:00:56.673 I'm picturing friend of the podcast, Holly Waynwright. She's going camping, 0:00:57.074 --> 0:01:00.114 and I just get the sense everything's going to be damp, 0:01:00.273 --> 0:01:02.474 even if it's not raining, it will just be damp 0:01:02.554 --> 0:01:03.554 because that is camping. 0:01:04.434 --> 0:01:07.514 Yeah, yeah, it's resilience building, all right. 0:01:07.554 --> 0:01:09.194 Coming up on today's show. 0:01:09.594 --> 0:01:12.634 Is Chris Pratt, the most hated dad on the Internet. 0:01:12.914 --> 0:01:15.914 We look at his supposed crimes. 0:01:15.514 --> 0:01:18.474 And why do Australians love school uniforms so much? A 0:01:18.514 --> 0:01:21.354 Sydney school ditched them to its peril. 0:01:21.274 --> 0:01:24.914 And the U come last rule, which blew up the 0:01:24.914 --> 0:01:29.394 comments section this week. But first Easter aside, what has 0:01:29.434 --> 0:01:31.474 been happening this week online? 0:01:31.514 --> 0:01:34.954 This might be the parenting version of the Fire Festival. 0:01:35.514 --> 0:01:38.234 The Fire Festival was a twenty seventeen music festival in 0:01:38.274 --> 0:01:38.994 the Bahamas. 0:01:39.394 --> 0:01:39.994 You might remember. 0:01:40.114 --> 0:01:43.114 It failed so badly. It was documented in a Netflix 0:01:43.154 --> 0:01:47.154 special and all these hipsters were like showing these sandwiches 0:01:47.194 --> 0:01:50.234 that they'd paid thousands of dollars for on this remote 0:01:50.274 --> 0:01:52.714 island where the musical accident show up. It was just 0:01:52.714 --> 0:01:57.074 like an epic fail. Well, Florida parents who spent a 0:01:57.074 --> 0:02:00.114 lot of money on tickets to something called Barbie Dreamfest 0:02:00.554 --> 0:02:03.634 this week are comparing it to the Fire Festival. Tickets 0:02:03.674 --> 0:02:06.154 to this event cost something like one hundred and ninety dollars. 0:02:06.634 --> 0:02:10.634 It was marketed as an immersive celebration of Barbie with 0:02:10.834 --> 0:02:16.194 interactive experiences and themed installations. Let me pause to say, 0:02:16.354 --> 0:02:19.314 this is exactly the kind of event I love to 0:02:19.354 --> 0:02:21.994 waste money on. Yeah, because in my head I think 0:02:22.114 --> 0:02:24.914 that Saturday taken care of the children will be so 0:02:25.034 --> 0:02:28.674 grateful to their mother for providing them with this immersive 0:02:28.914 --> 0:02:32.954 themed experience. I will pat myself on the back and 0:02:33.314 --> 0:02:34.474 we'll all go home happy. 0:02:35.234 --> 0:02:38.194 It's also the kind of event Amelia that you know 0:02:38.394 --> 0:02:40.314 is going to look good on your social media. I 0:02:40.314 --> 0:02:41.994 can't believe I have to say that, but in twenty 0:02:42.034 --> 0:02:45.354 twenty six, like you know, people buying tickets going, I 0:02:45.394 --> 0:02:47.914 know what my aesthetic's going to be on my Instagram 0:02:47.994 --> 0:02:49.994 page for when I take my children to this. 0:02:50.274 --> 0:02:50.994 Yeah, for sure. 0:02:51.034 --> 0:02:53.114 And you also want to be that parent who's like 0:02:53.554 --> 0:02:56.353 I just try and find an interesting and unique experience 0:02:56.394 --> 0:02:58.474 to have my children exposed to every weekend. 0:02:58.714 --> 0:02:59.474 Or maybe that's just me. 0:02:59.794 --> 0:03:04.194 Anyway, most found themselves very disappointed with the Barbie Dreamfest, 0:03:04.434 --> 0:03:06.953 and they left with their children after an hour. 0:03:07.234 --> 0:03:09.154 To picture for us of what it actually was like. 0:03:09.554 --> 0:03:12.314 So you think it's gonna be like the Barbie movie, right, 0:03:12.794 --> 0:03:14.594 what happens when they walk in Amelia? 0:03:14.874 --> 0:03:20.074 Yeah, well, it's a sparsely decorated warehouse space and there 0:03:20.114 --> 0:03:22.874 is not even any music playing. So just imagine like 0:03:22.914 --> 0:03:27.674 a giant warehouse like situation with a few sort of 0:03:27.754 --> 0:03:31.353 like desoltry pink cardboard spaces throughout. 0:03:32.154 --> 0:03:34.634 Very quiet because again, no music. 0:03:34.954 --> 0:03:37.514 They should just play the Barbie movie soundtrack. 0:03:37.634 --> 0:03:38.514 They could so. 0:03:40.114 --> 0:03:44.354 Well for one hundred that's one hundred and ninety USDs tickets. 0:03:44.434 --> 0:03:45.834 Yeah, yeah, they could afforded. 0:03:46.554 --> 0:03:49.874 Let me quote from one attendee who told People Magazine 0:03:50.074 --> 0:03:52.754 as we walked to the entrance around opening, it was 0:03:52.834 --> 0:03:55.554 empty and there was no music. The first things you 0:03:55.634 --> 0:03:58.234 saw were the eighties skating rink and the bike event. 0:03:58.634 --> 0:04:01.834 The rink was metal bars and a tiny disco ball, 0:04:02.074 --> 0:04:03.074 no music. 0:04:02.954 --> 0:04:03.514 No theme. 0:04:04.154 --> 0:04:08.074 The Barbie dream House, which I would have pictured myself 0:04:08.154 --> 0:04:12.034 kind of wandering through a La Margo Robbie, was a 0:04:12.154 --> 0:04:17.954 cutout cardboard box with a pink blanket in front, a 0:04:18.034 --> 0:04:21.954 couple of chairs and a VW bus that you couldn't 0:04:22.074 --> 0:04:23.994 even go oh no. 0:04:24.393 --> 0:04:25.914 The kids would have been so pissed. 0:04:25.993 --> 0:04:29.274 It gets worse because there were apparently a few vendors 0:04:29.313 --> 0:04:32.993 there doing activities, so there was a Mad Scientist stall 0:04:33.034 --> 0:04:35.553 and a crafting store, but the. 0:04:35.633 --> 0:04:38.433 Experiences weren't included in the cost. 0:04:38.714 --> 0:04:41.513 Is there anything that enrages a parent more than paying 0:04:41.594 --> 0:04:44.553 a lot of money for something and then your children 0:04:44.633 --> 0:04:47.153 harass you to spend more. 0:04:46.953 --> 0:04:47.954 Because there's nothing to do. 0:04:48.154 --> 0:04:49.674 There's nothing to do. 0:04:50.073 --> 0:04:52.433 I couldn't start looking at this. 0:04:53.113 --> 0:04:55.674 I was like one of those I just didn't know 0:04:55.714 --> 0:04:57.873 what to think, and I went so deep into the comments, 0:04:57.873 --> 0:04:59.433 and I think I messaged you Amelia. I was like, 0:04:59.513 --> 0:05:02.833 don't disturb me. I'm in the comments eating popcorn. This 0:05:02.993 --> 0:05:05.113 is like the greatest and the worst thing I've ever seen. 0:05:05.113 --> 0:05:07.354 At the same time, it it feels to me like 0:05:07.474 --> 0:05:10.753 madly unfair, Like can't we just have nice things? 0:05:11.073 --> 0:05:12.354 The world is a lot right now. 0:05:12.433 --> 0:05:14.393 I just want to walk through the Barbie dream House 0:05:14.714 --> 0:05:17.313 and it is just a cardboard cutout, like it just 0:05:17.354 --> 0:05:19.433 feels so symbolic of everything right now. 0:05:19.674 --> 0:05:20.354 It reminds me. 0:05:20.393 --> 0:05:23.073 Also, do you remember the Glasgow Willy Wonka? 0:05:23.354 --> 0:05:26.153 I think about that, so I know you do, Claire. 0:05:26.433 --> 0:05:28.393 I didn't even ask you about this beforehand, but I 0:05:28.433 --> 0:05:30.433 just know there's a little corner of your brain devoted 0:05:30.474 --> 0:05:30.674 to that. 0:05:30.714 --> 0:05:32.433 Can you remind us about that? Yeah? 0:05:32.513 --> 0:05:35.753 So it was basically it was similar and then it 0:05:35.794 --> 0:05:39.274 was all all set up like Willy Wonka, but really 0:05:39.354 --> 0:05:44.674 it was shit. No, timmy shallah. It was really bad, 0:05:44.753 --> 0:05:49.993 but even potentially worse than this. It was scary. All 0:05:50.113 --> 0:05:54.674 the umplopers really terrified the children, and I was like, 0:05:54.794 --> 0:05:58.113 oh God, imagine you're not even getting the fun experience, 0:05:58.113 --> 0:06:03.034 but your kids are actively upset from attending oh man, 0:06:03.113 --> 0:06:04.194 I would have been soapy sed off. 0:06:04.193 --> 0:06:06.873 Weren't my favorite comment. My favorite comment was and there 0:06:06.914 --> 0:06:08.074 was there were thousands. 0:06:08.914 --> 0:06:09.794 If you have. 0:06:10.393 --> 0:06:14.513 A Barbie event and you advertise for scale dream house, 0:06:14.993 --> 0:06:18.273 then your only priority is one hundred percent to make 0:06:18.313 --> 0:06:21.433 sure that the dream house is there, come hell or 0:06:21.513 --> 0:06:22.794 high water, like. 0:06:22.794 --> 0:06:25.354 They come hell or high water. 0:06:26.274 --> 0:06:28.914 But I don't think the kids would have cared that much. Really, 0:06:28.953 --> 0:06:30.874 like you take a kid anywhere, you take a kid 0:06:30.914 --> 0:06:33.073 to an elaborate thing, and they're like playing with the 0:06:33.113 --> 0:06:35.753 cardboard box they're playing with, like the one free balloon 0:06:35.753 --> 0:06:36.674 that they got given. 0:06:36.474 --> 0:06:36.833 On the way. 0:06:36.873 --> 0:06:40.234 I think it's all the parents that feel mightily ripped off, 0:06:40.234 --> 0:06:43.594 and as they should. It's very much like Barbie Budget 0:06:43.594 --> 0:06:47.993 Cut Sedition. Okay, another thing that I saw that went 0:06:48.113 --> 0:06:52.034 wild online this week. I saw it and I thought, 0:06:52.034 --> 0:06:54.994 oh my god, I just would like to put this 0:06:55.113 --> 0:06:57.953 to the podcast to discuss it because it was an 0:06:57.953 --> 0:07:00.793 Australian couple that went viral for this little postpartum video. 0:07:01.354 --> 0:07:05.394 So picture the inside of a maternity hospital room, private room. 0:07:06.154 --> 0:07:09.113 It's filmed sort of point of view from the basinette 0:07:09.193 --> 0:07:12.074 and the text on the screen on the Instagram real 0:07:12.114 --> 0:07:15.634 screen says, when you didn't tell the grandparents about the 0:07:15.674 --> 0:07:18.833 birth of their grandchild. And what you watch is the 0:07:18.874 --> 0:07:22.673 grandparents walk into the hospital room and see the mother 0:07:22.794 --> 0:07:25.154 and say hello, you know, how are you feeling hard? 0:07:25.194 --> 0:07:28.874 Card hug and that moment when they spot the baby 0:07:29.034 --> 0:07:31.234 and they're like, what a baby? 0:07:31.314 --> 0:07:32.273 When did this happen? 0:07:32.714 --> 0:07:34.353 And they're just completely shocked. 0:07:34.834 --> 0:07:38.153 So congratulations mum and dad, I guess and they do 0:07:38.274 --> 0:07:41.234 say in the bid, well, she came early. But Claire, 0:07:41.754 --> 0:07:44.594 have you planned a sort of rogue surprise birth and 0:07:44.634 --> 0:07:46.074 baby reveal for your own life? 0:07:46.554 --> 0:07:51.514 Well, the thing is, I can't keep secrets for shit, 0:07:51.794 --> 0:07:54.514 so I would be so bad at this. But I 0:07:54.714 --> 0:07:59.434 remember before I gave birth for the first time, we 0:07:59.554 --> 0:08:03.554 had a discussion in the office about whether it is 0:08:04.194 --> 0:08:08.274 whether when you have a baby, it's just baseline expectation 0:08:08.874 --> 0:08:12.994 that grandparents free reign to come whenever suits them, like 0:08:13.474 --> 0:08:17.314 the night you deliver, the early morning hours, whatever, that 0:08:17.393 --> 0:08:19.834 they are entitled to be there as soon as they 0:08:19.834 --> 0:08:21.833 want to be. And a lot of other people were 0:08:21.874 --> 0:08:25.114 saying no, and I said yes because I was like, 0:08:25.194 --> 0:08:27.913 this is a shared joy. The baby is that everyone 0:08:28.034 --> 0:08:31.234 don't hug the baby. And then once i'd been. 0:08:31.194 --> 0:08:33.634 Through it, I thought, absolutely not. 0:08:33.874 --> 0:08:37.954 I am all for that couple needing a minute, just 0:08:38.114 --> 0:08:41.514 needing a minute. And I think it's so clever to 0:08:41.594 --> 0:08:44.474 actually not tell anyone. There is nothing more annoying than 0:08:44.474 --> 0:08:47.394 being in labor and getting a million questions from people 0:08:47.394 --> 0:08:50.114 about how it's progressing, when you're like, this is really 0:08:50.194 --> 0:08:54.274 slow and I'm bored as fuck. But I love that 0:08:54.394 --> 0:08:58.234 idea of not telling them and them getting a massive surprise. 0:08:58.394 --> 0:09:02.554 It also means that you then don't have to rush anything, 0:09:02.634 --> 0:09:04.914 like you don't have to rush, how you feel, you 0:09:04.954 --> 0:09:08.274 don't have to rush, how your recessing, any of it. 0:09:08.954 --> 0:09:10.914 But I'd love to have the self restrained to do this. 0:09:10.994 --> 0:09:11.594 I just don't. 0:09:12.114 --> 0:09:15.074 You're not a Kylie Jenner no how She famously kept 0:09:15.074 --> 0:09:19.194 her first pregnancy completely secret from the world. Yeah, and 0:09:19.234 --> 0:09:22.594 then dropped the Instagram video revealing the baby. My first 0:09:22.594 --> 0:09:25.034 thought here was like, was this a Kylie Jenner situation? 0:09:25.154 --> 0:09:27.794 But that's interesting ones that that the baby came early. 0:09:27.954 --> 0:09:32.594 I had a baby early, and I remember that after 0:09:32.634 --> 0:09:36.074 the baby came out, I snapped a pick of the 0:09:36.114 --> 0:09:38.874 baby and sent it to one Mere Freedman. 0:09:39.194 --> 0:09:41.434 Oh, and she wrote back saying. 0:09:41.274 --> 0:09:45.394 Who is this because no one expected that baby to come. 0:09:46.074 --> 0:09:49.314 I said, that's my baby, Maya. She's like, oh beautiful. 0:09:49.394 --> 0:09:52.274 But like you can when you have a baby early, 0:09:52.394 --> 0:09:55.354 it is a silver lining. The nursery might not be ready, 0:09:55.434 --> 0:09:58.034 you might have a lot of medical complications, but one 0:09:58.074 --> 0:09:59.914 silver lining is you get to surprise your friends. 0:09:59.994 --> 0:10:01.834 Yeah and your family. Yeah. 0:10:02.034 --> 0:10:05.474 Yeah, congrats guys. All right, there's a new rule for 0:10:05.554 --> 0:10:08.674 parents this week. And as you're parental correspondent, I wanted 0:10:08.674 --> 0:10:10.754 to bring you across it. It's doing the rounds online 0:10:10.834 --> 0:10:13.474 after it went viral on X, which used to be Twitter, 0:10:13.674 --> 0:10:14.674 but we will still call it. 0:10:14.754 --> 0:10:16.594 I resent having to call it. 0:10:17.234 --> 0:10:19.834 X formerly known as Twitter. No one can call it 0:10:20.034 --> 0:10:24.394 X because it's a bad name. Elon, it's a terrible name. 0:10:26.754 --> 0:10:29.874 Has not got good form with names. He really doesn't. 0:10:30.914 --> 0:10:34.834 Okay, let me read let me read you the X. 0:10:35.994 --> 0:10:39.794 My super strong parenting opinion is that while the kids 0:10:39.874 --> 0:10:45.034 are awake, you come last. Laura Hudson at Latter Day 0:10:45.114 --> 0:10:48.674 Laura wrote this week, no spending all of Saturday golfing. 0:10:48.794 --> 0:10:50.274 That's family time, six a m. 0:10:50.394 --> 0:10:51.154 T time only. 0:10:51.234 --> 0:10:53.474 Maybe want to go to the gym? Go after the 0:10:53.514 --> 0:10:55.794 kids go to bed or wake up at five. In 0:10:55.834 --> 0:10:57.354 a few short years, they'll be out of the house 0:10:57.394 --> 0:10:59.034 and you have all the time in the world for 0:10:59.074 --> 0:11:01.714 your own stuff. She said, it's okay, come last for 0:11:01.714 --> 0:11:03.994 a little while. So what do we think of the 0:11:04.074 --> 0:11:05.034 U come last rule? 0:11:06.034 --> 0:11:09.954 They're sad, So it will it'll surprise everyone to hear this. 0:11:10.074 --> 0:11:13.754 But I don't think how we approach parenting can be 0:11:13.794 --> 0:11:15.954 summed up in three to four sentences on Twitter. 0:11:16.634 --> 0:11:18.714 I think it's probably a little bit more nuance than that. 0:11:19.354 --> 0:11:23.994 So, like every take ever, I do feel like as 0:11:24.114 --> 0:11:28.114 rage baity as this is, there is a tiny. 0:11:27.994 --> 0:11:29.714 Nuggative truth no nuggative. 0:11:30.914 --> 0:11:36.194 I think the nugget of truth is that some mothers 0:11:37.794 --> 0:11:43.514 unconsciously internalize this and it's how they're living their lives. 0:11:43.954 --> 0:11:47.314 And so in that case, it would be helpful to 0:11:47.354 --> 0:11:50.434 have a conversation with your partner where you say, at 0:11:50.554 --> 0:11:54.434 least we're both on the same page, and then you 0:11:54.514 --> 0:11:58.594 can kind of ironically end up having a bit more 0:11:58.594 --> 0:12:01.034 time for yourselves because you're tag teaming rather than your 0:12:01.114 --> 0:12:03.834 husband living his own life. This is a heterosexual relationship 0:12:03.874 --> 0:12:08.234 because I'm not at all speaking from experience, but so 0:12:08.354 --> 0:12:10.634 that your husband isn't just living his life, and then 0:12:10.714 --> 0:12:14.674 you're kind of doing all the sacrificing at the same time. 0:12:14.834 --> 0:12:16.834 Can I just stop you and ask a question about that, 0:12:16.874 --> 0:12:18.594 because I think that's a really good point. What do 0:12:18.634 --> 0:12:22.794 you mean unconsciously internalizing it? Like can you or does 0:12:22.874 --> 0:12:25.594 it consciously have to come from somewhere? I think it's 0:12:25.674 --> 0:12:27.914 you don't just suddenly decide to be a certain way, 0:12:28.034 --> 0:12:29.954 Like there's things that make your way, right. 0:12:30.394 --> 0:12:33.834 I think that for mothers there can be a certain 0:12:34.314 --> 0:12:39.953 level of guilt that comes with the decisions you make. 0:12:40.394 --> 0:12:43.994 So for example, when I saw this, I thought of 0:12:44.034 --> 0:12:47.034 a few a few ways I do this, and no 0:12:47.074 --> 0:12:50.114 one's told me to do it. But and like, lol, 0:12:50.314 --> 0:12:53.234 I'm not putting my child first all day. 0:12:53.114 --> 0:12:58.114 Every day or when you see that's the time. 0:12:58.394 --> 0:13:01.274 See that's the thing. I don't play golf, and you 0:13:01.354 --> 0:13:04.874 know how much I'd love to. But for example, with 0:13:04.954 --> 0:13:07.834 a lot of social stuff, I will intention on plant 0:13:08.474 --> 0:13:12.594 like an eight o'clock dinner, because I know my daughter. 0:13:12.474 --> 0:13:15.514 Will not having eight o'clock dinners regularly, are you. 0:13:15.234 --> 0:13:18.833 Well, Like with friends with young kids, eight o'clock is 0:13:18.874 --> 0:13:21.034 a great time because the kid's in bed, and then 0:13:21.074 --> 0:13:26.474 you don't feel that guilt that you've left your poor 0:13:26.634 --> 0:13:29.514 partner to do bedtime or any of that, and I 0:13:29.714 --> 0:13:31.634 have done that without even thinking about it. 0:13:31.674 --> 0:13:32.354 So I will. 0:13:32.634 --> 0:13:34.394 I'll do a lot of stuff at night. I do 0:13:34.434 --> 0:13:37.274 a lot of cleaning at night. It becomes my time 0:13:37.314 --> 0:13:38.714 to get anything done because I'm. 0:13:38.634 --> 0:13:41.514 Prioritizing time clean out the free. 0:13:41.514 --> 0:13:45.634 Don't even because I have this weird idea that it's 0:13:45.634 --> 0:13:48.874 like I should be maximizing I should be maximizing time 0:13:48.954 --> 0:13:50.114 with Matilda when she's awake. 0:13:50.994 --> 0:13:53.874 My husband does not do that at all. 0:13:54.074 --> 0:13:56.994 And the golf thing just made me laugh because there 0:13:57.034 --> 0:14:01.314 are just full saturdays that are riten and I couldn't 0:14:02.194 --> 0:14:05.914 I couldn't even think of doing something like that. With 0:14:06.154 --> 0:14:11.394 that said, I don't think that's good, and it's something 0:14:11.754 --> 0:14:14.754 I want to challenge because when I think about my childhood, 0:14:15.274 --> 0:14:19.434 I think that some of my absolute favorite memories were 0:14:19.754 --> 0:14:23.234 being with my parents while they did the things that 0:14:23.274 --> 0:14:26.794 they loved. Yes, like, every every week my mom would 0:14:26.794 --> 0:14:30.154 play tennis with her friends and the four of us 0:14:30.274 --> 0:14:33.994 kids would just literally play outside the court and it 0:14:34.074 --> 0:14:36.594 was a total vibe. And the thing I loved about 0:14:36.634 --> 0:14:39.314 it was that my mom loved doing it and she was. 0:14:39.354 --> 0:14:41.074 Why did your mom have to take you to tennis? 0:14:41.194 --> 0:14:41.874 Yeah, great question. 0:14:41.994 --> 0:14:43.874 To babysit her and go to tennis herself. Couldn't your 0:14:43.914 --> 0:14:45.674 dad have looked after you while she went to tennis? 0:14:45.794 --> 0:14:46.754 I bet you like paying. 0:14:46.794 --> 0:14:49.194 That is not selfless decision. 0:14:49.554 --> 0:14:52.834 No drag four kids to tennis, I know, not me 0:14:52.954 --> 0:14:53.874 time for an Stevens. 0:14:54.114 --> 0:14:59.474 Mum dragged us everywhere and I loved it because you 0:14:59.594 --> 0:15:02.794 just wanna You just want to be around and the 0:15:02.874 --> 0:15:06.354 thing that you enjoy is seeing your parents happy. The 0:15:06.434 --> 0:15:09.234 older I gets, the more I think the biggest gift 0:15:09.674 --> 0:15:12.874 that you can give to your children is to see 0:15:12.874 --> 0:15:13.554 you happy. 0:15:13.754 --> 0:15:16.034 Okay, but I think that that idea of taking the 0:15:16.154 --> 0:15:19.354 kids with you everywhere is one way to rebut this, 0:15:19.474 --> 0:15:22.954 and in fact, one of the comments said, my super 0:15:22.994 --> 0:15:25.834 strong parenting opinion is that you bring the little shit 0:15:25.954 --> 0:15:28.234 with you to the golf course. You live your life 0:15:28.314 --> 0:15:30.754 for you, but with the kids. To me, that's another 0:15:30.794 --> 0:15:31.754 form of guilt tripping. 0:15:32.114 --> 0:15:34.674 I agree, because you genuinely cannot take it. 0:15:34.914 --> 0:15:37.194 I don't want to take the kids to golf. 0:15:37.314 --> 0:15:39.954 Golf is my me time, and by golf I mean 0:15:40.154 --> 0:15:41.114 margs with my friends. 0:15:41.194 --> 0:15:43.234 Yeah, I don't want to take them. 0:15:43.354 --> 0:15:46.874 It's not relaxing, don't paying them in the guise of, oh, 0:15:46.914 --> 0:15:49.514 it's so easy to bring them along. I agree, I 0:15:49.554 --> 0:15:52.394 don't think like I wonder if you asked your mom 0:15:52.954 --> 0:15:55.434 was that stressful to bring the kids along? Like I 0:15:55.474 --> 0:15:58.034 take your point that you enjoyed it, but there must 0:15:58.034 --> 0:15:59.994 have been a part of her which was always thinking 0:16:00.034 --> 0:16:01.754 a little bit, I hope the kids. 0:16:01.714 --> 0:16:02.674 Are playing okay. 0:16:02.794 --> 0:16:06.834 Yeah, And I'm sure it was. But the other thing was, 0:16:07.314 --> 0:16:09.354 you know, that was something that would happen during the week. 0:16:09.394 --> 0:16:13.034 But I also remember my Nan lived with us when 0:16:13.074 --> 0:16:16.514 we were growing up, and I remember that Mum would 0:16:16.674 --> 0:16:19.434 go to dinner, go wherever she was going on a 0:16:19.474 --> 0:16:22.314 Saturday night, and it would be our responsibility to like 0:16:22.314 --> 0:16:24.634 get nun ready for bed because she couldn't move around 0:16:24.674 --> 0:16:26.234 a lot, and like put her pajamas on and stuff. 0:16:26.594 --> 0:16:29.314 And I loved that, and I loved that it was 0:16:29.354 --> 0:16:33.154 actually also teaching one the world doesn't revolve around the kids. 0:16:33.634 --> 0:16:36.074 The kids have to learn to care for other people 0:16:36.114 --> 0:16:38.634 as well, like the world in that instance revolved around now. 0:16:38.874 --> 0:16:42.034 And the kids also don't want their parent just standing 0:16:42.074 --> 0:16:45.394 there staring at them all the time, saying you're awake, 0:16:45.834 --> 0:16:49.074 you're awake, what shall we do. I just think that's 0:16:49.114 --> 0:16:50.834 not what kids want either. 0:16:51.514 --> 0:16:51.714 No. 0:16:52.274 --> 0:16:54.954 I think, like my question is like, at what point 0:16:55.234 --> 0:17:00.954 did being a good parent start to be be totally 0:17:00.994 --> 0:17:03.754 selfless and put them ahead of yourself? Because it does 0:17:03.794 --> 0:17:06.034 feel like that's the kind of dominant narrative. And I 0:17:06.074 --> 0:17:07.754 was like, where is this coming from? Is it coming 0:17:07.754 --> 0:17:10.474 from the pop culture models that we see? Like you 0:17:10.513 --> 0:17:14.554 look at Bluie's dad, what's his name? 0:17:14.554 --> 0:17:15.833 We always freaking talk about him. 0:17:15.874 --> 0:17:22.074 Oh yeah, okay, he's like the epitome of a good dad, 0:17:22.234 --> 0:17:25.114 and he is always doing He's not off playing golf, 0:17:25.314 --> 0:17:26.994 is he He's there with the kids, playing with the 0:17:27.074 --> 0:17:29.434 kids all the time, or like the kind of parents 0:17:29.474 --> 0:17:31.154 that we were modeled to us in pop culture was 0:17:31.194 --> 0:17:34.313 probably like Tim the Toolman, Taylor's wife who just was 0:17:34.394 --> 0:17:37.434 like the stay at home mum. And I know certainly, 0:17:37.514 --> 0:17:39.674 like I think when you were talking before about like 0:17:39.714 --> 0:17:43.154 how we unconsciously internalized stuff, you've got to also think 0:17:43.154 --> 0:17:45.354 about how it was modeled to you as a child. 0:17:45.434 --> 0:17:48.314 Like my mum was all about like putting herself last, 0:17:48.394 --> 0:17:50.554 Like it was always her that had the burnt chop, 0:17:50.634 --> 0:17:53.114 it was always her that went without so that we 0:17:53.154 --> 0:17:56.994 could have things. So, yeah, at what point did becoming 0:17:57.074 --> 0:17:59.914 a good parent look like just being selfless? 0:18:00.194 --> 0:18:01.474 Yeah, that's a great question. 0:18:01.514 --> 0:18:03.274 There was another comment on it that said, I'm big, 0:18:03.434 --> 0:18:06.593 I'm begging millennial women to do as little parenting as 0:18:06.634 --> 0:18:09.834 their grandma mothers did. Keyword through is grandmothers because I 0:18:09.914 --> 0:18:12.554 think that experience you had, Monds of a very self 0:18:12.594 --> 0:18:17.434 sacrificing mother was I would say perhaps quite common amongst 0:18:17.554 --> 0:18:19.194 the mothers of millennials m M. 0:18:19.754 --> 0:18:21.674 And I wonder why. 0:18:21.754 --> 0:18:24.594 Then we took that to the extreme and just said 0:18:24.634 --> 0:18:27.234 that we we have to do everything for them. 0:18:27.354 --> 0:18:29.874 And I now, and I'm not saying this is true 0:18:29.914 --> 0:18:36.594 of you Monds, but I now look at families or 0:18:36.674 --> 0:18:39.434 mother child dynamics where that was a thing, where the 0:18:39.474 --> 0:18:43.994 self sacrifice was just the bedrock of the relationship. And 0:18:44.154 --> 0:18:48.354 I don't think a child can unlearn that. I see 0:18:48.394 --> 0:18:53.154 friends in their twenties, thirties, and forties who still cannot 0:18:53.234 --> 0:18:58.674 see and it often is their mother as a human 0:18:58.754 --> 0:19:02.314 being worthy of integrity outside what they can do for them. 0:19:03.074 --> 0:19:04.553 And that as a parent. 0:19:04.634 --> 0:19:06.714 Now that scares me because I don't want that kind 0:19:06.714 --> 0:19:09.794 of relationship with my kid as an adult. I want 0:19:09.794 --> 0:19:13.033 to be like I want it to be richer than that, 0:19:13.794 --> 0:19:16.634 So it scares me that you're kind of setting yourself 0:19:16.714 --> 0:19:20.273 up for a lifetime of being a bit of a slave. 0:19:22.314 --> 0:19:24.834 Do you think kids benefit more from our attention or 0:19:24.834 --> 0:19:26.234 from seeing us have a life. 0:19:26.634 --> 0:19:30.074 I think it depends a lot on age. And I've 0:19:30.114 --> 0:19:36.514 also been thinking a lot about the mothers of young 0:19:36.674 --> 0:19:40.274 kids who feel sick when you talk. 0:19:40.194 --> 0:19:41.194 About attachment theory. 0:19:41.674 --> 0:19:44.874 I don't know if you guys have so many moms 0:19:44.954 --> 0:19:51.194 I know will just express worries about all the complete 0:19:52.154 --> 0:19:54.553 You get so much content about attachment theory, and you 0:19:54.634 --> 0:19:57.033 hear so much about how the way you interact and 0:19:57.074 --> 0:19:59.114 the amount of time you spend with your child in 0:19:59.154 --> 0:20:01.914 those early years affects their relationships for the rest of 0:20:01.954 --> 0:20:05.154 their life. Blah blah blah. I've freaked out about. 0:20:04.914 --> 0:20:05.914 It the more you read. 0:20:06.234 --> 0:20:11.674 It's like, if you're sensible person who there's been no 0:20:12.034 --> 0:20:15.033 kind of massive thing that has separated you from your 0:20:15.154 --> 0:20:19.033 child in those early years, it's fine, You're fine, But 0:20:19.114 --> 0:20:24.274 we panic that we're just going to rupture some part 0:20:24.314 --> 0:20:27.354 of that bond if we are not with them constantly 0:20:27.434 --> 0:20:29.474 in the early years. But I do think by the 0:20:29.514 --> 0:20:32.914 time your kids are primary school age. They want other kids, 0:20:33.474 --> 0:20:34.714 parents are adults are boring. 0:20:36.274 --> 0:20:42.234