1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:13,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,134 --> 00:00:17,214 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,254 --> 00:00:19,054 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:23,214 --> 00:00:23,414 Speaker 3: Hi. 5 00:00:23,534 --> 00:00:27,134 Speaker 2: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:27,174 --> 00:00:29,774 Speaker 2: The Quickie. We all love a bit of true crime, 7 00:00:29,854 --> 00:00:33,894 Speaker 2: right It's weirdly soothing listening to stories of horrible things 8 00:00:33,974 --> 00:00:37,254 Speaker 2: happening to someone else, somewhere else. But what if that 9 00:00:37,334 --> 00:00:39,854 Speaker 2: true crime gets a little too close to home? 10 00:00:40,374 --> 00:00:42,894 Speaker 4: Like I looked at this man and I felt terror. 11 00:00:43,614 --> 00:00:46,854 Speaker 2: There's a theory being floated that the worst serial killer 12 00:00:46,934 --> 00:00:50,214 Speaker 2: in Australian history could be behind dozens of missing and 13 00:00:50,294 --> 00:00:52,854 Speaker 2: murdered New South Wales women, and there are some first 14 00:00:52,894 --> 00:00:55,454 Speaker 2: hand accounts from those who feel they might have even 15 00:00:55,494 --> 00:00:58,854 Speaker 2: been a potential target. Today we look at the alarming 16 00:00:58,894 --> 00:01:02,734 Speaker 2: similarity of more than sixty unsolved crimes and wonder if 17 00:01:02,734 --> 00:01:05,214 Speaker 2: they might all be linked. But before we look into it, 18 00:01:05,254 --> 00:01:07,854 Speaker 2: here's the letters from the Quicki newsroom, Monday, November fore. 19 00:01:08,534 --> 00:01:11,814 Speaker 2: Kamla Harris has surprised viewers appearing on the US TV 20 00:01:11,894 --> 00:01:15,774 Speaker 2: show Saturday Night Live, urging people to keep Karmela kick. 21 00:01:15,694 --> 00:01:23,334 Speaker 5: Backing our Pajamala's and watch a rum kamala. 22 00:01:21,014 --> 00:01:25,614 Speaker 1: Like legally Blondola and start decorating for Christmas. 23 00:01:25,934 --> 00:01:26,894 Speaker 6: Falla lala la. 24 00:01:28,934 --> 00:01:32,614 Speaker 3: Because what don't we always say? Keep karmala and carry on. 25 00:01:32,814 --> 00:01:36,814 Speaker 2: Alah Harris appeared alongside my Rudolph, who's been playing the 26 00:01:36,894 --> 00:01:39,814 Speaker 2: Vice President on the show since twenty nineteen, the final 27 00:01:39,854 --> 00:01:42,854 Speaker 2: time it will air before Americans hit the polling booths tomorrow. 28 00:01:43,174 --> 00:01:44,974 Speaker 2: Trump has been on the show in the past while 29 00:01:45,014 --> 00:01:48,254 Speaker 2: campaigning to become president, appearing in twenty fifteen. He was 30 00:01:48,294 --> 00:01:50,774 Speaker 2: also a guest before he even entered politics, back in 31 00:01:50,774 --> 00:01:54,214 Speaker 2: two thousand and four. Meanwhile, US authorities are working to 32 00:01:54,334 --> 00:01:56,974 Speaker 2: ensure this election doesn't end with a situation like the 33 00:01:57,054 --> 00:02:00,734 Speaker 2: riots on January sixth. Some elected officials mobile phones have 34 00:02:00,814 --> 00:02:03,854 Speaker 2: reportedly been fitted with a panic button, and the election's 35 00:02:03,894 --> 00:02:07,134 Speaker 2: bureau office has had the windows replaced with bulletproof glass. 36 00:02:07,414 --> 00:02:10,334 Speaker 2: While some believe the prosecution of those in the January 37 00:02:10,334 --> 00:02:14,214 Speaker 2: sixth capital will deter any further violence, Trump is already 38 00:02:14,254 --> 00:02:17,814 Speaker 2: suggesting this election is rigged, saying Pennsylvania is cheating big 39 00:02:17,854 --> 00:02:21,414 Speaker 2: on votes in pre polling, making some very nervous. The 40 00:02:21,534 --> 00:02:24,494 Speaker 2: Israeli military has carried out a ground rate in Syria, 41 00:02:24,614 --> 00:02:27,734 Speaker 2: seizing a Syrian citizen who's belief to be connected to Iran. 42 00:02:28,214 --> 00:02:31,374 Speaker 2: Israel has carried out multiple air strikes on Syria over 43 00:02:31,414 --> 00:02:34,534 Speaker 2: the past year, claiming to be targeting members of HESBOLA 44 00:02:34,654 --> 00:02:37,454 Speaker 2: and officials from Iran, but until this point has not 45 00:02:37,574 --> 00:02:41,174 Speaker 2: undertaken any ground operations. The IDF says it was part 46 00:02:41,174 --> 00:02:44,414 Speaker 2: of a special operation. Iran's supreme leader on the weekend, 47 00:02:44,454 --> 00:02:47,774 Speaker 2: threatened Israel and the US with a crushing response over 48 00:02:47,814 --> 00:02:51,494 Speaker 2: attacks on Iran and its allies. Israeli naval forces also 49 00:02:51,494 --> 00:02:55,014 Speaker 2: announced they've captured a senior hesbela operative in northern Lebanon, 50 00:02:55,334 --> 00:02:58,934 Speaker 2: Lebanese authorities saying they are investigating whether Israel was behind 51 00:02:58,974 --> 00:03:01,534 Speaker 2: the capture of a sea captain who was taken away 52 00:03:01,574 --> 00:03:04,134 Speaker 2: by a group of armed men. The operation is the 53 00:03:04,134 --> 00:03:06,934 Speaker 2: first time Israel has announced it has deployed troops in 54 00:03:07,014 --> 00:03:11,134 Speaker 2: northern Lebanon. Coldplay frontman Chris Martin has taken a tumble 55 00:03:11,174 --> 00:03:14,214 Speaker 2: on stage in shades of what happened to Olivia Rodrigo here. 56 00:03:14,294 --> 00:03:17,494 Speaker 2: Just last month, Coldplay were playing at Marvel Stadium in 57 00:03:17,534 --> 00:03:20,254 Speaker 2: Melbourne when he stepped back and fell through a trapdoor 58 00:03:20,294 --> 00:03:23,214 Speaker 2: on the stage. Martin was overheard saying afterwards that that 59 00:03:23,414 --> 00:03:26,894 Speaker 2: wasn't planned, then thanking a production stuff member for catching him, 60 00:03:27,014 --> 00:03:29,734 Speaker 2: saying that was nearly a YouTube moment, which is what 61 00:03:29,774 --> 00:03:32,414 Speaker 2: it was for Olivia Rodrigo, who was also in Melbourne 62 00:03:32,454 --> 00:03:34,974 Speaker 2: last month when she fell through a trapdoor on stage 63 00:03:34,974 --> 00:03:37,574 Speaker 2: at rod Laver Arena. The clip of the tumble shows 64 00:03:37,614 --> 00:03:39,814 Speaker 2: her emerging from the whole saying that was fun and 65 00:03:39,814 --> 00:03:42,774 Speaker 2: that she's okay. The cast of the new Wicked movie 66 00:03:42,854 --> 00:03:45,934 Speaker 2: opened the show in Sydney on the weekend. Cynthia Arrivo, 67 00:03:46,054 --> 00:03:50,134 Speaker 2: Ariana Grande, Jonathan Bailey, Jeff Goldbloom, Marissa Boden, Ethan Slater 68 00:03:50,534 --> 00:03:52,614 Speaker 2: walked out onto the stage of the State Theater to 69 00:03:52,694 --> 00:03:55,734 Speaker 2: welcome fans and announce the first screening of the stage 70 00:03:55,774 --> 00:03:58,534 Speaker 2: to screen adaptation of the movie around the origins of 71 00:03:58,574 --> 00:04:00,494 Speaker 2: the Goodwitch and the Wicked Witch of the West from 72 00:04:00,494 --> 00:04:03,374 Speaker 2: The Wizard of Oz. Cynthia Arrevo saying it was fitting 73 00:04:03,414 --> 00:04:05,014 Speaker 2: to be here to start showing it. 74 00:04:05,094 --> 00:04:06,334 Speaker 4: This is an absolute dream. 75 00:04:06,374 --> 00:04:08,734 Speaker 2: I'm true to be able to do this here. It's 76 00:04:08,774 --> 00:04:10,374 Speaker 2: my first home being there as well. 77 00:04:14,854 --> 00:04:17,014 Speaker 6: Really on the car, that's what's going on in the 78 00:04:17,014 --> 00:04:17,534 Speaker 6: world today. 79 00:04:17,574 --> 00:04:20,134 Speaker 2: Next, is there a serial killer on the loose around 80 00:04:20,134 --> 00:04:22,894 Speaker 2: Byron Bay or have we been following a bit too 81 00:04:22,974 --> 00:04:36,214 Speaker 2: much true crime? Last month, Melbourne woman Kayleie was walking 82 00:04:36,294 --> 00:04:39,294 Speaker 2: alone in the northern New South Wales suburb of Suffolk Park. 83 00:04:39,534 --> 00:04:42,014 Speaker 2: It was around four pm on a Saturday afternoon and 84 00:04:42,054 --> 00:04:44,174 Speaker 2: she was going to meet friends at the beach when 85 00:04:44,214 --> 00:04:46,614 Speaker 2: a car all of a sudden pulled up beside her. 86 00:04:47,774 --> 00:04:50,254 Speaker 4: As I'm walking, there is a car that pulls up 87 00:04:50,654 --> 00:04:52,414 Speaker 4: like on the other side of the parked cast me 88 00:04:52,454 --> 00:04:54,134 Speaker 4: there in the middle of the road. I look into 89 00:04:54,174 --> 00:04:56,974 Speaker 4: the car and it's a young couple and the woman 90 00:04:57,014 --> 00:04:59,054 Speaker 4: in the passenger seat she's looking at me, and then 91 00:04:59,054 --> 00:05:02,734 Speaker 4: she's looking behind me at something and she looks terrified, 92 00:05:02,774 --> 00:05:05,134 Speaker 4: and I was like, what on earth is going on? 93 00:05:05,534 --> 00:05:08,974 Speaker 4: So I look behind me to see a man a 94 00:05:09,014 --> 00:05:11,174 Speaker 4: couple of meters behind me. And this man does not 95 00:05:11,374 --> 00:05:14,854 Speaker 4: look dressed for where we are. It's like thirty degrees 96 00:05:14,894 --> 00:05:18,094 Speaker 4: and he is in gloves, which I thought was really freaky. 97 00:05:18,134 --> 00:05:20,614 Speaker 4: Like I looked at this man and I felt terror. 98 00:05:20,774 --> 00:05:23,094 Speaker 4: The thing is is for that man to be as 99 00:05:23,134 --> 00:05:24,574 Speaker 4: close to me as he was, he had to have 100 00:05:24,654 --> 00:05:27,454 Speaker 4: run up on me because I had already been checking 101 00:05:27,494 --> 00:05:29,654 Speaker 4: behind me, because I'm just like that type of person. 102 00:05:29,694 --> 00:05:30,334 Speaker 3: As soon as I. 103 00:05:30,254 --> 00:05:32,934 Speaker 4: Look at him, he disappears, either like down this side 104 00:05:32,974 --> 00:05:35,494 Speaker 4: street or like into somebody's front yard. I wouldn't have 105 00:05:35,534 --> 00:05:37,454 Speaker 4: even noticed this man if. 106 00:05:37,254 --> 00:05:39,614 Speaker 3: Not for the fact that the couple in the. 107 00:05:39,574 --> 00:05:42,094 Speaker 4: Car were distressed and they'd pulled over. Every single part 108 00:05:42,134 --> 00:05:44,614 Speaker 4: of me felt like that was a really, really close 109 00:05:44,774 --> 00:05:46,934 Speaker 4: encounter with something really evil. 110 00:05:47,974 --> 00:05:50,854 Speaker 2: Kaylie says she informed local police, but found them to 111 00:05:50,854 --> 00:05:54,614 Speaker 2: be dismissive of her experience. Her TikTok comments section, though, 112 00:05:55,014 --> 00:06:00,614 Speaker 2: was flooded with similar experiences, experiences like Laura Claire's. Laura 113 00:06:00,654 --> 00:06:02,814 Speaker 2: is a bar and Bay local who's been documenting her 114 00:06:02,894 --> 00:06:07,174 Speaker 2: run ins a info about the alleged Barron based serial killer. Laura, 115 00:06:07,254 --> 00:06:08,734 Speaker 2: can you talk us through that day where you and 116 00:06:08,814 --> 00:06:10,294 Speaker 2: your friend decided go hitch hiking? 117 00:06:10,534 --> 00:06:10,774 Speaker 3: Yeah? 118 00:06:10,814 --> 00:06:14,894 Speaker 1: Sure, I think Byron has this hold on people. It's 119 00:06:14,934 --> 00:06:17,894 Speaker 1: just this idolistic kind of town and there's a lot 120 00:06:17,974 --> 00:06:20,854 Speaker 1: of people hitch hiking there, and you just have this 121 00:06:21,054 --> 00:06:24,654 Speaker 1: sense of safety. Well I did when I first went there, obviously, 122 00:06:25,054 --> 00:06:28,174 Speaker 1: So my friend and I needed to get from Byron 123 00:06:28,214 --> 00:06:32,134 Speaker 1: to Suffolk. It was a really hot day. I suggested 124 00:06:32,174 --> 00:06:35,374 Speaker 1: that we hitch hike. She had never hitch hike before 125 00:06:35,414 --> 00:06:37,214 Speaker 1: and was very much against it, and I kind of 126 00:06:37,214 --> 00:06:39,614 Speaker 1: convinced her it wasn't a very long distance and it 127 00:06:39,734 --> 00:06:42,494 Speaker 1: was safe and all the things that I shouldn't have said, 128 00:06:42,654 --> 00:06:45,694 Speaker 1: all the things that I felt, a sense of safety 129 00:06:45,694 --> 00:06:46,614 Speaker 1: that I shouldn't have felt. 130 00:06:47,014 --> 00:06:49,494 Speaker 3: So we go to hit to ride and this vand 131 00:06:49,494 --> 00:06:50,094 Speaker 3: pulls up. 132 00:06:50,254 --> 00:06:54,134 Speaker 1: He's so normal looking I can barely remember his details, 133 00:06:54,374 --> 00:06:58,334 Speaker 1: and he seemed to look very friendly as well. So 134 00:06:58,654 --> 00:07:01,974 Speaker 1: my friend I put her in the back and I 135 00:07:02,014 --> 00:07:03,414 Speaker 1: went to sit in the front and there was a 136 00:07:03,454 --> 00:07:07,694 Speaker 1: big knife on the front seat, and not having any 137 00:07:07,694 --> 00:07:10,334 Speaker 1: survival instincts at all, I just grab for a knife 138 00:07:10,334 --> 00:07:14,094 Speaker 1: and put it on the floor to get in, and 139 00:07:14,454 --> 00:07:15,654 Speaker 1: I think I even asked. 140 00:07:15,454 --> 00:07:16,494 Speaker 3: Him permission to do so. 141 00:07:17,734 --> 00:07:21,494 Speaker 1: And then I kind of just out of curiosity, was like, Oh, 142 00:07:21,574 --> 00:07:22,294 Speaker 1: what's the knife for? 143 00:07:23,054 --> 00:07:25,934 Speaker 3: And he said that he was a chef. And that's 144 00:07:26,014 --> 00:07:26,374 Speaker 3: kind of. 145 00:07:26,294 --> 00:07:29,934 Speaker 1: When I started to feel uncomfortable. Most people would have 146 00:07:29,934 --> 00:07:33,134 Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable hit hiking. This is where I started to 147 00:07:33,134 --> 00:07:36,774 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. The knife was very rusty, the knife did 148 00:07:36,814 --> 00:07:39,894 Speaker 1: not look like it should go anywhere near food. It 149 00:07:40,054 --> 00:07:43,614 Speaker 1: just kind of started mulling in my mind, and I said, oh, where. 150 00:07:43,414 --> 00:07:44,174 Speaker 3: Are you a chef? 151 00:07:44,294 --> 00:07:47,894 Speaker 1: Because I thought maybe i'd know the restaurant or you know, 152 00:07:48,134 --> 00:07:51,494 Speaker 1: just get some comfort in knowing that he worked around 153 00:07:51,574 --> 00:07:54,134 Speaker 1: the area. And he said, oh, I'm not working at 154 00:07:54,134 --> 00:07:57,294 Speaker 1: the moment, and that's when I just went, Okay, I 155 00:07:57,334 --> 00:07:59,854 Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable here. We need to get out of 156 00:07:59,854 --> 00:08:02,334 Speaker 1: this situation. And so I said, oh, yeah, that's us 157 00:08:02,414 --> 00:08:04,814 Speaker 1: just up there. He led us out of the van 158 00:08:04,934 --> 00:08:05,174 Speaker 1: like we. 159 00:08:05,134 --> 00:08:05,894 Speaker 3: Got out of the van. 160 00:08:06,414 --> 00:08:10,774 Speaker 1: So that was my experience, and honestly, I don't think 161 00:08:10,814 --> 00:08:14,454 Speaker 1: I even thought about it again after that day for 162 00:08:14,534 --> 00:08:17,494 Speaker 1: a long time. But a few friends of mine have 163 00:08:17,614 --> 00:08:19,894 Speaker 1: contacted me in the last couple of days and said, oh, 164 00:08:19,974 --> 00:08:22,174 Speaker 1: you told me about that story. So it has sort 165 00:08:22,174 --> 00:08:25,014 Speaker 1: of stuck with me, but not as much as it 166 00:08:25,014 --> 00:08:25,694 Speaker 1: probably should have. 167 00:08:26,254 --> 00:08:29,214 Speaker 6: Well, can you explain what happened after you shared that 168 00:08:29,294 --> 00:08:32,574 Speaker 6: story publicly, because we've seen this happen with other women 169 00:08:32,654 --> 00:08:35,094 Speaker 6: too in the area who've shared their close encounters, that 170 00:08:35,174 --> 00:08:37,614 Speaker 6: it's essentially kind of opened up the floodgates. 171 00:08:37,934 --> 00:08:42,334 Speaker 3: It absolutely has, and it's quite distressing. In my mind. 172 00:08:42,334 --> 00:08:44,414 Speaker 1: I was going to share this story about what happened. 173 00:08:44,494 --> 00:08:47,934 Speaker 1: I was either going to have people going you're overreacting 174 00:08:48,174 --> 00:08:50,454 Speaker 1: or people going, oh my god, that was really scary. 175 00:08:51,174 --> 00:08:55,174 Speaker 1: I didn't prepare myself for hundreds of women coming forward 176 00:08:55,454 --> 00:09:01,454 Speaker 1: speaking about close call encounters, rapes, drink spikings, names of 177 00:09:01,494 --> 00:09:04,134 Speaker 1: people that are dangerous in the area. 178 00:09:04,574 --> 00:09:04,774 Speaker 2: You know. 179 00:09:04,894 --> 00:09:07,814 Speaker 3: I just wasn't prepared for the volume. 180 00:09:07,854 --> 00:09:11,934 Speaker 1: I wasn't prepared for the terrific details, and it's just 181 00:09:12,134 --> 00:09:16,214 Speaker 1: so alarming, and at times I felt defeated because I'm like, 182 00:09:16,334 --> 00:09:18,694 Speaker 1: how do we help, how do we change this? 183 00:09:19,334 --> 00:09:20,254 Speaker 3: Like what do we do? 184 00:09:21,134 --> 00:09:25,374 Speaker 1: Obviously, my first point is to call the police and 185 00:09:25,454 --> 00:09:28,934 Speaker 1: report what you know. But in a lot of these cases, 186 00:09:29,014 --> 00:09:31,734 Speaker 1: they were actually let down by the police in either 187 00:09:32,414 --> 00:09:35,574 Speaker 1: not showing up on the scene, taking too long to 188 00:09:35,614 --> 00:09:37,974 Speaker 1: get to the scene where they were no longer in danger, 189 00:09:38,614 --> 00:09:42,574 Speaker 1: saying that they didn't have enough information, not taking down details, 190 00:09:43,134 --> 00:09:46,774 Speaker 1: telling them to go home when they went into the station, distressed, 191 00:09:47,014 --> 00:09:48,414 Speaker 1: all of that kind of stuff as well. 192 00:09:49,174 --> 00:09:51,254 Speaker 2: This is something that a lot of women come up 193 00:09:51,294 --> 00:09:53,694 Speaker 2: against when it comes to crimes against them like this, 194 00:09:53,934 --> 00:09:57,214 Speaker 2: and another of its nature is that police are so 195 00:09:57,334 --> 00:10:00,734 Speaker 2: under resourced. These are sometimes put in the two hard basket, 196 00:10:01,414 --> 00:10:03,174 Speaker 2: especially when there's many. 197 00:10:02,934 --> 00:10:04,414 Speaker 6: Many of them to look at. 198 00:10:04,934 --> 00:10:08,454 Speaker 2: But I think what we have realized when yourself and 199 00:10:08,494 --> 00:10:11,974 Speaker 2: others who are also looking at crimes against women like 200 00:10:12,054 --> 00:10:14,254 Speaker 2: this in the area where you live, is that when 201 00:10:14,254 --> 00:10:16,494 Speaker 2: you start to map this out, that map starts to 202 00:10:16,534 --> 00:10:18,814 Speaker 2: look very crowded, doesn't it, Like with if you were 203 00:10:18,854 --> 00:10:22,174 Speaker 2: to pin all of these instances to a real physical map, 204 00:10:22,894 --> 00:10:24,694 Speaker 2: like there'd be no space in between. 205 00:10:25,134 --> 00:10:28,374 Speaker 1: And look, this has been common knowledge among locals for years, 206 00:10:28,414 --> 00:10:32,334 Speaker 1: and I think one of the biggest things that kind 207 00:10:32,334 --> 00:10:35,414 Speaker 1: of is terrifying is these are maps of women that 208 00:10:35,414 --> 00:10:38,334 Speaker 1: have gone missing or died. It would be interesting to 209 00:10:38,334 --> 00:10:41,214 Speaker 1: see a map of women that have been assaulted, because 210 00:10:41,694 --> 00:10:45,574 Speaker 1: what I've heard in the last seventy two hours is 211 00:10:45,654 --> 00:10:49,534 Speaker 1: a lot a lot of assaults and people that didn't 212 00:10:49,574 --> 00:10:53,014 Speaker 1: die that are left with the consequences of this, and 213 00:10:53,134 --> 00:10:56,534 Speaker 1: these can often be behaviors in the lead up to 214 00:10:57,414 --> 00:10:58,254 Speaker 1: worse crimes. 215 00:10:58,774 --> 00:11:00,414 Speaker 3: Some of these haven't been. 216 00:11:00,374 --> 00:11:04,174 Speaker 1: Reported or weren't reported or it's interesting with a lot 217 00:11:04,214 --> 00:11:07,534 Speaker 1: of this information women when they haven't reported it, I've 218 00:11:07,574 --> 00:11:11,574 Speaker 1: asked them why. And there's quite a common thread of 219 00:11:11,974 --> 00:11:14,174 Speaker 1: young women being worried that they were get to get 220 00:11:14,174 --> 00:11:15,734 Speaker 1: in trouble with their parents for not being where they 221 00:11:15,734 --> 00:11:18,374 Speaker 1: were supposed to. And so I think that there's a 222 00:11:18,414 --> 00:11:21,134 Speaker 1: lot of information out there that we're not getting through 223 00:11:21,134 --> 00:11:24,494 Speaker 1: to the legal system either. But in the case of 224 00:11:24,574 --> 00:11:27,334 Speaker 1: the map and how many crimes happen in this area, 225 00:11:27,414 --> 00:11:32,014 Speaker 1: it is unbelievably high. And when you're going to a 226 00:11:32,054 --> 00:11:35,054 Speaker 1: town like Byron and you don't live there, you have 227 00:11:35,214 --> 00:11:37,734 Speaker 1: this kind of view of it, like I did that 228 00:11:37,814 --> 00:11:41,414 Speaker 1: it was just this sleepy coastal town. 229 00:11:41,934 --> 00:11:44,334 Speaker 3: And so when you have that view of a. 230 00:11:44,374 --> 00:11:47,854 Speaker 1: Town, you're walking around doing things that you do on 231 00:11:47,894 --> 00:11:50,334 Speaker 1: holiday that you probably wouldn't do it at home, and 232 00:11:50,534 --> 00:11:54,934 Speaker 1: you're not really fearing for your safety or being concerned 233 00:11:54,974 --> 00:11:58,174 Speaker 1: about it at all because you're not hearing about it 234 00:11:58,214 --> 00:12:01,574 Speaker 1: on the news and you're not realizing actually that you 235 00:12:01,654 --> 00:12:03,774 Speaker 1: may be in danger. Like I had a friend of 236 00:12:03,814 --> 00:12:07,014 Speaker 1: mine that lives in Byron and I was talking to 237 00:12:07,054 --> 00:12:09,254 Speaker 1: her about it, and she said, I'd rather walk around 238 00:12:09,894 --> 00:12:12,734 Speaker 1: in the cross or Redfern then i would Environ. 239 00:12:13,334 --> 00:12:15,334 Speaker 3: It's well known by the locals. 240 00:12:15,334 --> 00:12:17,454 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, Kaylee, the other girl that 241 00:12:17,494 --> 00:12:20,774 Speaker 1: spoke out about it, she kind of got attacked and 242 00:12:20,814 --> 00:12:23,254 Speaker 1: shut down when she first came out about it, and 243 00:12:23,374 --> 00:12:25,894 Speaker 1: a lot of that was by the locals. You don't 244 00:12:25,894 --> 00:12:27,374 Speaker 1: want to try that with Meybe, because. 245 00:12:27,174 --> 00:12:28,574 Speaker 3: I've lived there and I can. 246 00:12:28,494 --> 00:12:31,694 Speaker 1: Name, you know, incidences that happen and people that have 247 00:12:31,734 --> 00:12:35,134 Speaker 1: gone missing, and no one from the community has tried 248 00:12:35,174 --> 00:12:36,934 Speaker 1: to say to me, no, no, it's not no, it 249 00:12:36,974 --> 00:12:39,734 Speaker 1: didn't happen. Because if you live there, you know, it's 250 00:12:39,814 --> 00:12:41,574 Speaker 1: very easy to shut down a girl from Melbourne that 251 00:12:41,614 --> 00:12:43,574 Speaker 1: was visiting a week because she just had this bad 252 00:12:43,614 --> 00:12:46,894 Speaker 1: experience and she had a very off feeling about it. 253 00:12:47,014 --> 00:12:50,294 Speaker 1: But if you live there, you know, trying to cover 254 00:12:50,374 --> 00:12:53,614 Speaker 1: it up for the sake of tourism or house prices 255 00:12:53,774 --> 00:12:57,534 Speaker 1: or whatever it is is actually doing the town a disservice. 256 00:12:58,614 --> 00:13:03,294 Speaker 2: Laura, you said that when the hitchhiking incident happened, you 257 00:13:03,374 --> 00:13:05,734 Speaker 2: kind of dismissed it and almost essentially forgot about it 258 00:13:05,814 --> 00:13:09,774 Speaker 2: until now. Would you say the same thing now, with 259 00:13:09,814 --> 00:13:12,014 Speaker 2: all the responses that you got to it and all 260 00:13:12,054 --> 00:13:13,974 Speaker 2: the stories that you've heard, do you feel like that 261 00:13:14,134 --> 00:13:16,854 Speaker 2: has now changed you where that hitch hiking incident didn't. 262 00:13:17,294 --> 00:13:20,054 Speaker 1: It's interesting because the hitch hiking incident, when I think 263 00:13:20,054 --> 00:13:22,174 Speaker 1: about it at a core level, did change me. I 264 00:13:22,254 --> 00:13:24,334 Speaker 1: hitch tagged once again after that, but I was in 265 00:13:24,374 --> 00:13:27,894 Speaker 1: a very desperate situation. I remember thinking I shouldn't be 266 00:13:27,974 --> 00:13:31,774 Speaker 1: doing this, So it did change me at that level. 267 00:13:31,774 --> 00:13:36,054 Speaker 1: But what it's kind of changed for me now as 268 00:13:36,094 --> 00:13:40,494 Speaker 1: a woman, especially after speaking out about this, is just 269 00:13:40,694 --> 00:13:43,614 Speaker 1: how careful I need to be. Like I was walking 270 00:13:43,654 --> 00:13:47,694 Speaker 1: my dog yesterday and I just went wow, Like I'm 271 00:13:47,734 --> 00:13:49,774 Speaker 1: not as aware of my surroundings as I should be, 272 00:13:49,974 --> 00:13:52,614 Speaker 1: and maybe I need to be more careful in a 273 00:13:52,654 --> 00:13:55,174 Speaker 1: lot of other areas in my life, because after hearing 274 00:13:55,374 --> 00:13:58,174 Speaker 1: the things that I did and reading what I have 275 00:13:58,374 --> 00:14:01,814 Speaker 1: in the last seventy two hours, it's pretty bleak. 276 00:14:02,974 --> 00:14:05,174 Speaker 2: While Laura is thinking her lucky stars that she and 277 00:14:05,214 --> 00:14:07,774 Speaker 2: her friend didn't find themselves potentially in the path of 278 00:14:07,774 --> 00:14:10,894 Speaker 2: a killer, there are potentially more than sixty others who 279 00:14:10,934 --> 00:14:14,414 Speaker 2: weren't so lucky. Last week, New South Wales MP Jeremy 280 00:14:14,414 --> 00:14:18,054 Speaker 2: Buckingham addressed state Parliament stating that the worst serial killer 281 00:14:18,054 --> 00:14:20,294 Speaker 2: in the nation's history has gotten away with it. 282 00:14:20,814 --> 00:14:24,534 Speaker 5: Ivan Malapp was convicted of seven murders. There is someone 283 00:14:24,574 --> 00:14:27,934 Speaker 5: on the North Coast that has murdered as many or more, 284 00:14:28,134 --> 00:14:31,934 Speaker 5: and they are still amongst us sixty seven the numbers 285 00:14:31,974 --> 00:14:36,334 Speaker 5: of unsolved homicides of women on the north coast of 286 00:14:36,374 --> 00:14:41,254 Speaker 5: New South Wales, and has every indication that someone operated 287 00:14:41,334 --> 00:14:45,654 Speaker 5: in that area, traveled that area, lived across that area 288 00:14:45,694 --> 00:14:51,574 Speaker 5: and took women, destroyed their bodies, destroyed their lives and 289 00:14:51,654 --> 00:14:55,534 Speaker 5: it's appalling that it's taken so long for this matter 290 00:14:55,694 --> 00:14:58,174 Speaker 5: to come before House and to public attention. 291 00:14:59,894 --> 00:15:03,054 Speaker 2: Buckingham told Parliament that he's been called alarmist because his 292 00:15:03,174 --> 00:15:06,134 Speaker 2: view and the view of some senior police like Detective 293 00:15:06,174 --> 00:15:09,774 Speaker 2: Gary McAvoy who investigated these matters from Coffs Harbor, is 294 00:15:09,774 --> 00:15:13,054 Speaker 2: that they were and are linked. He, with the support 295 00:15:13,094 --> 00:15:16,014 Speaker 2: of Green's MP Sue Higginson, has called on the Premier, 296 00:15:16,054 --> 00:15:19,014 Speaker 2: Chris Mins to hold a special Commission of inquiry that 297 00:15:19,414 --> 00:15:22,574 Speaker 2: has been rejected amid suggestions a new police task force 298 00:15:22,654 --> 00:15:27,014 Speaker 2: be set up to investigate the unsolved cases instead. According 299 00:15:27,014 --> 00:15:30,574 Speaker 2: to a Daily Telegraph investigation, there are sixty seven women 300 00:15:30,614 --> 00:15:33,094 Speaker 2: who've been murdered or who've gone missing in the area 301 00:15:33,174 --> 00:15:35,734 Speaker 2: over the last thirty years. They include a number of 302 00:15:35,734 --> 00:15:39,854 Speaker 2: disappearances around Newcastle in the nineteen seventies. Jemma baf is 303 00:15:39,934 --> 00:15:44,574 Speaker 2: Mumama's news editor and host of the True Crime Conversations podcast, Jemma, 304 00:15:44,774 --> 00:15:47,294 Speaker 2: these cases go back as far as the nineteen seventies. 305 00:15:47,334 --> 00:15:49,254 Speaker 2: Can you give us a rundown of some of those 306 00:15:49,254 --> 00:15:51,454 Speaker 2: older cases that they think might be the work of 307 00:15:51,494 --> 00:15:52,294 Speaker 2: this serial killer. 308 00:15:52,774 --> 00:15:54,974 Speaker 7: Yeah, And so they kind of spread all the way 309 00:15:55,014 --> 00:15:56,974 Speaker 7: up the coast. We're talking from like coffs Haaba to 310 00:15:57,334 --> 00:15:59,734 Speaker 7: after kind of the Gold Coast area, But there does 311 00:15:59,774 --> 00:16:03,494 Speaker 7: seem to be a concentration around Newcastle, which is one 312 00:16:03,534 --> 00:16:05,454 Speaker 7: of the biggest centers along that coast if you know 313 00:16:05,494 --> 00:16:09,214 Speaker 7: the area, and many of the disappearances or alleged murders 314 00:16:09,214 --> 00:16:11,854 Speaker 7: in that area are from the seventies. So we've got 315 00:16:11,894 --> 00:16:14,214 Speaker 7: eighteen year old Robin Hickey. She was last seen at 316 00:16:14,214 --> 00:16:17,814 Speaker 7: a bus stop in April nineteen seventy nine. Eight months 317 00:16:17,854 --> 00:16:22,014 Speaker 7: after that, fourteen year old Amanda Robinson. She vanished while 318 00:16:22,054 --> 00:16:25,814 Speaker 7: walking home Miss Swansea. The following year, seventeen year old 319 00:16:25,854 --> 00:16:28,614 Speaker 7: Annie and eighteen year old Joy they both went missing 320 00:16:28,654 --> 00:16:30,414 Speaker 7: after a night out at a club in the city. 321 00:16:30,494 --> 00:16:34,374 Speaker 7: So in Newcastle again, there's Norell Cox. She was twenty one. 322 00:16:34,614 --> 00:16:37,734 Speaker 7: She was last seen in Grafton in nineteen seventy seven. 323 00:16:38,094 --> 00:16:39,894 Speaker 7: She actually left a note for her family and it 324 00:16:39,934 --> 00:16:43,134 Speaker 7: read gone to Noosa to see Faye be back on Monday, 325 00:16:43,294 --> 00:16:46,214 Speaker 7: which is just heartbreaking, isn't it. A truck driver said 326 00:16:46,334 --> 00:16:49,014 Speaker 7: he picked her up and actually dropped her in Brunswick 327 00:16:49,054 --> 00:16:52,014 Speaker 7: Heads and she's never been seen again. Then we've got 328 00:16:52,214 --> 00:16:55,014 Speaker 7: Rose Howe she was eighteen, went missing in two thousand 329 00:16:55,014 --> 00:16:58,414 Speaker 7: and three about twenty five kilometers from Coffs Harbor. Susan 330 00:16:58,454 --> 00:17:01,294 Speaker 7: Marie Killy she was thirty three. She's been missing from 331 00:17:01,294 --> 00:17:04,054 Speaker 7: Bellingen on the Mid North Coast since nineteen eighty nine. 332 00:17:04,094 --> 00:17:06,774 Speaker 7: Her body's never been found. I could go on and 333 00:17:06,814 --> 00:17:09,734 Speaker 7: on and on. There's literally dozens of case. 334 00:17:10,414 --> 00:17:13,374 Speaker 2: But general are we're just seeing patterns when there might 335 00:17:13,414 --> 00:17:15,454 Speaker 2: not be one. You know how humans really like to 336 00:17:15,614 --> 00:17:19,294 Speaker 2: seek patterns and find those kind of things that look linked, 337 00:17:19,294 --> 00:17:20,574 Speaker 2: when really they might not be. 338 00:17:20,854 --> 00:17:23,294 Speaker 6: Why are we thinking that all of these have a connection. 339 00:17:23,454 --> 00:17:25,374 Speaker 7: When you think about the string that's linking all of 340 00:17:25,414 --> 00:17:28,654 Speaker 7: these cases women who have gone missing while hitchhiking or 341 00:17:28,694 --> 00:17:32,254 Speaker 7: walking or traveling to another place. That's obviously a very 342 00:17:32,294 --> 00:17:35,014 Speaker 7: broad term, but I don't think that doesn't mean it's 343 00:17:35,014 --> 00:17:37,654 Speaker 7: not a pattern, particularly when you consider the fact that 344 00:17:38,134 --> 00:17:41,774 Speaker 7: when you compare how many women have gone missing along 345 00:17:41,814 --> 00:17:44,574 Speaker 7: the stretch of the New South Wales coastline. You just 346 00:17:44,614 --> 00:17:47,974 Speaker 7: don't see that kind of concentration of missing and murdered 347 00:17:48,014 --> 00:17:51,014 Speaker 7: women anywhere else in the country anywhere for that kind 348 00:17:51,054 --> 00:17:56,334 Speaker 7: of population geography, that span of time. To give you 349 00:17:56,334 --> 00:17:58,614 Speaker 7: an example, in the whole of Tasmania, there's less than 350 00:17:58,694 --> 00:18:02,814 Speaker 7: ten cases and we're talking over sixty in this one area. 351 00:18:03,614 --> 00:18:05,934 Speaker 2: Why is this only being discussed now though we mentioned 352 00:18:06,014 --> 00:18:08,414 Speaker 2: some of these cases date back more than thirty years. 353 00:18:08,734 --> 00:18:14,174 Speaker 7: Why now because technology, forensics, investigative techniques, they've come so 354 00:18:15,014 --> 00:18:17,294 Speaker 7: far in the last few years alone. I mean, we're 355 00:18:17,374 --> 00:18:20,094 Speaker 7: learning new things every day. A lot of these cases 356 00:18:20,454 --> 00:18:25,054 Speaker 7: weren't thoroughly investigated or properly investigated at the time, sometimes 357 00:18:25,054 --> 00:18:28,094 Speaker 7: because they just didn't have the resources or the technology 358 00:18:28,134 --> 00:18:30,854 Speaker 7: to do so. I mean, we're seeing so many cold 359 00:18:30,894 --> 00:18:34,054 Speaker 7: cases being solved. One that comes to mind recently is 360 00:18:34,094 --> 00:18:36,574 Speaker 7: the Easy Street murders in Melbourne that was from nineteen 361 00:18:36,654 --> 00:18:40,254 Speaker 7: seventy seven, and that is a really highly publicized case. 362 00:18:40,534 --> 00:18:42,974 Speaker 7: You know, everyone in Melbourne knows that story. The two 363 00:18:43,094 --> 00:18:45,494 Speaker 7: sues that were murdered in their house, a little boy 364 00:18:45,734 --> 00:18:48,454 Speaker 7: that was left crying in the middle of their dead bodies. 365 00:18:48,574 --> 00:18:49,454 Speaker 3: Horrific story. 366 00:18:50,214 --> 00:18:52,774 Speaker 7: They've got a man in custody all these years later, 367 00:18:53,094 --> 00:18:56,894 Speaker 7: decades later because of DNA, because of DNA that is 368 00:18:56,974 --> 00:19:00,174 Speaker 7: now able to be traced and tracked back to people 369 00:19:00,214 --> 00:19:03,254 Speaker 7: all these decades later. So I think the reason that 370 00:19:03,294 --> 00:19:05,374 Speaker 7: we're talking about it now is because some of these 371 00:19:05,374 --> 00:19:09,774 Speaker 7: cases need to be reinvestigated with fresh twenty twenty four eyes, 372 00:19:09,814 --> 00:19:11,534 Speaker 7: because you never know what you're going to find. You're 373 00:19:11,534 --> 00:19:13,094 Speaker 7: never going to know what we're going to be able 374 00:19:13,134 --> 00:19:15,694 Speaker 7: to solve with everything that's at our fingertips. And we 375 00:19:15,734 --> 00:19:18,654 Speaker 7: also know so much more about serial offenders now than 376 00:19:18,694 --> 00:19:20,774 Speaker 7: we did back then. We've just got so much more 377 00:19:20,814 --> 00:19:23,814 Speaker 7: knowledge in the police force, so we definitely need to 378 00:19:23,814 --> 00:19:25,214 Speaker 7: go back. We need to go back and look at 379 00:19:25,214 --> 00:19:26,494 Speaker 7: these cases with fresh eyes. 380 00:19:27,054 --> 00:19:30,054 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of the police force, obviously these are cold cases, 381 00:19:30,094 --> 00:19:33,014 Speaker 2: and cold cases are never officially closed, but as you mentioned, 382 00:19:33,054 --> 00:19:35,694 Speaker 2: they might not be being investigated to the extent that 383 00:19:35,734 --> 00:19:38,734 Speaker 2: we would hope or that we would presume that they 384 00:19:38,734 --> 00:19:41,934 Speaker 2: are investigated, especially if they're beyond thirty years old. But 385 00:19:42,014 --> 00:19:44,334 Speaker 2: obviously New South Wales police know more than any of 386 00:19:44,414 --> 00:19:46,294 Speaker 2: us about all of these cases. What have they said 387 00:19:46,334 --> 00:19:48,974 Speaker 2: about this alleged linking of all of them. 388 00:19:49,454 --> 00:19:52,534 Speaker 7: They have released a statement it's not as exciting as 389 00:19:52,534 --> 00:19:55,574 Speaker 7: you might expect. It says there is no evidence to 390 00:19:55,614 --> 00:19:59,574 Speaker 7: indicate a common offender was responsible for the disappearance. They've 391 00:19:59,574 --> 00:20:01,974 Speaker 7: said that the matters remain under investigation by the State 392 00:20:02,014 --> 00:20:05,614 Speaker 7: Crime Commands, Homicide Squad, Unsolved Homicide Team that's a mouthful, 393 00:20:05,974 --> 00:20:09,414 Speaker 7: and the Missing Person Registry as part of recent recommendation 394 00:20:09,574 --> 00:20:11,974 Speaker 7: that were handed down by a Special Commission of Inquiry. 395 00:20:12,334 --> 00:20:13,774 Speaker 3: So they're reviewing all. 396 00:20:13,734 --> 00:20:17,214 Speaker 7: Unsolved cases every two years, which is amazing. It does 397 00:20:17,334 --> 00:20:19,574 Speaker 7: mean each of these cases are getting fresh eyes, but 398 00:20:19,654 --> 00:20:22,254 Speaker 7: there are so many cases, so we've just got to 399 00:20:22,294 --> 00:20:24,614 Speaker 7: hope that they're getting the attention that they deserve. 400 00:20:26,454 --> 00:20:28,854 Speaker 2: We don't want to alarm people, but we do want 401 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,974 Speaker 2: to arm them. So if you find yourself along the 402 00:20:31,014 --> 00:20:34,014 Speaker 2: New South Wales Northern coast, please be careful and be 403 00:20:34,094 --> 00:20:37,734 Speaker 2: aware of your surroundings. Laura says she wants women to know, though, 404 00:20:37,774 --> 00:20:40,934 Speaker 2: that their experiences aren't just fine, and to ignore the 405 00:20:40,974 --> 00:20:42,854 Speaker 2: gas lighting that comes with reporting them. 406 00:20:43,254 --> 00:20:45,534 Speaker 1: I've noticed people were more likely to come to me 407 00:20:45,814 --> 00:20:48,654 Speaker 1: than they were to call crime stoppers, and that is 408 00:20:48,974 --> 00:20:53,134 Speaker 1: us systematically as women being taught that, oh, it's probably nothing. 409 00:20:53,694 --> 00:20:58,094 Speaker 1: You're being over dramatic, you're overreacting, you're being hysterical. And 410 00:20:58,174 --> 00:21:01,694 Speaker 1: so even with me with the incident in two thousand 411 00:21:01,734 --> 00:21:04,374 Speaker 1: and eight, I played it down to well, he let 412 00:21:04,454 --> 00:21:08,054 Speaker 1: me out of the van, so he couldn't be well, 413 00:21:08,374 --> 00:21:11,414 Speaker 1: I've lent a lot of people out of his car too. 414 00:21:11,534 --> 00:21:15,134 Speaker 1: So we kind of gaslight ourselves, and we also go 415 00:21:15,254 --> 00:21:17,534 Speaker 1: to people who are meant to help us that also 416 00:21:17,974 --> 00:21:20,534 Speaker 1: gas light us and make us feel like we're being idiots. 417 00:21:20,774 --> 00:21:22,574 Speaker 3: And so I think that that needs to change. I 418 00:21:22,614 --> 00:21:23,374 Speaker 3: think that there needs to. 419 00:21:23,334 --> 00:21:25,614 Speaker 1: Be a safe space to be able to discuss these 420 00:21:25,654 --> 00:21:28,894 Speaker 1: issues and what I wanted to achieve. Often we hear 421 00:21:29,214 --> 00:21:32,574 Speaker 1: these different separate stories, but this is hundreds of women 422 00:21:33,054 --> 00:21:35,414 Speaker 1: and hundreds of close goals that you're seeing in these 423 00:21:35,414 --> 00:21:38,734 Speaker 1: comments sections, And maybe when you see that volume altogether, 424 00:21:38,854 --> 00:21:42,734 Speaker 1: you start to realize, Okay, this is a really big issue. 425 00:21:42,814 --> 00:21:45,614 Speaker 1: Can we get it now? Like we need to do 426 00:21:45,654 --> 00:21:48,254 Speaker 1: something about this. Women aren't feeling safe. 427 00:21:49,574 --> 00:21:51,334 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with 428 00:21:51,414 --> 00:21:54,134 Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy 429 00:21:54,174 --> 00:21:57,534 Speaker 2: and our executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by 430 00:21:57,574 --> 00:21:58,334 Speaker 2: Teag and Sadler.