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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily

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Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. There's been a recent surge of

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Speaker 2: gambling influences, from Pokey's in the pub to big ticket

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Speaker 2: bets on social media. We have some questions like why

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Speaker 2: is this content so popular, who's watching it? And should

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Speaker 2: we be worried about the impact on young people. Plus

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Speaker 2: we're unpacking the latest tough love parenting trend faffo or

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Speaker 2: around and find out before we get to all of that.

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Speaker 2: He is Claire Murphy with the latest from the QUICKI

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Speaker 2: News room for Thursday, August seven.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. The jury in the trial of reality TV

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Speaker 1: star Matt Wright has been told how he tried to

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Speaker 1: get his hands on documents that might betray his underreporting

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Speaker 1: of flying hours. The Outback Wrangler's trial is underway in

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court in Darwin, more than three years after

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Speaker 1: his co star Chris Willow Wilson died in the outback

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Speaker 1: crash that left pilot Sebastian Robinson a paraplegic. They were

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Speaker 1: collecting crocodile legs along the King River in arnham Land

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Speaker 1: when the crash occurred. The Crown prosecutor told the jury

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday, the charges do not relate to the cause

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Speaker 1: of the accident and it's not alleged Right was responsible

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Speaker 1: for the crash, the death of mister Wilson or mister

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Speaker 1: Robinson's injuries, but that the case was about how Right

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Speaker 1: did not properly record helicopter flying hours and was concerned

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Speaker 1: that crash investigators would uncover that, leading to charges against

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Speaker 1: him and his helicopter company. The jurors were told they

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Speaker 1: would hear evidence that tried to procure Sebastian Robertson's diary,

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Speaker 1: phone and logbook while the seriously injured pilot was in

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Speaker 1: hospital in Brisbane. Wright has pleaded not guilty to three

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Speaker 1: counts of attempting to pervert the course of justice following

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Speaker 1: the February twenty twenty two incident. The recent Tasmanian election

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Speaker 1: has not settled the political turmoil, with Labor leader Dean

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Speaker 1: Winter saying his party will declare another motion of no

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Speaker 1: confidence in Liberal Premier Jeremy rocks Cliff when Parliament resumes

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Speaker 1: on August nineteen. Governor Barbara Baker reappointed Rockliffe as Premier

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Speaker 1: in minority government on Wednesday, after weeks of political limbo

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Speaker 1: following the snap election that was triggered by mister Rockcliffe

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Speaker 1: losing a no confidence vote in early June. Neither the

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Speaker 1: Liberals or Labour managed to win the eighteen seats required

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Speaker 1: to control the Lower House on their own, and mister

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Speaker 1: Rockcliffe has no formal agreements of support with the eleven

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Speaker 1: elected minor party and peas and independents to form a

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Speaker 1: minority government, but the governor says the incumbent has the

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Speaker 1: right to remain in office to test the numbers. Winter

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Speaker 1: says any no confidence motion they move will not result

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Speaker 1: in another election, but rather confirm whether the Liberals or

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Speaker 1: Labor will form government. At least thirty eight Palestinians have

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Speaker 1: been killed after Israeli soldiers fired on them as they

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Speaker 1: sought aid from United Nations convoys and sites run by

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Speaker 1: an Israeli backed American contractor. The Israeli military said it

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Speaker 1: fired warning shots when crowds approached its forces. According to

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Speaker 1: local hospitals in Gaza and other twenty five people in clifting.

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Speaker 1: Several women and children were killed in Israeli air strikes.

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Speaker 1: The military said it is only targeting hamas militants. The

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Speaker 1: latest deaths come as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyah, who is

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Speaker 1: expected to announce further military action in the enclave and

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Speaker 1: possibly plans for Israel to fully reoccupy Gaza. Net Nyaho's

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Speaker 1: far right coalition allies have long called for war to

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Speaker 1: be expanded and for Israel to eventually take over Gaza,

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Speaker 1: relocating much of its population and building Jewish settlements. US

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump was asked by a reporter on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: whether he supports the plan for Israel to occupy Gaza,

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Speaker 1: Trump saying he wasn't aware of the suggestion, but that

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Speaker 1: it's going to be pretty much up to Israel. Convicted

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Speaker 1: Idaho killer Brian Coburger was investigated in relation to another

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Speaker 1: break in at a house where college girls lived more

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Speaker 1: than a year before the murders. Newly released document show

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Speaker 1: Coburger was considered a suspect after a home in Pullman,

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Speaker 1: where Coburger lived and attended university, was broken into in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. One of the four students who lived

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Speaker 1: there said she awoke to find a nice fielding man

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Speaker 1: wearing a mask standing over her bed. She kicked him

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Speaker 1: in the stomach and he fled without saying anything. The

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Speaker 1: case has many similarities to the killing of the Idaho

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Speaker 1: Four Madison Mogan, Kaylie Gonzavez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, who was stabbed to death by

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Speaker 1: a mask wearing man who broke in while they were asleep.

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Speaker 1: Coburger changed his plea to guilty at his recent trial,

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Speaker 1: sentenced to four consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next, should we found gambling content on social media?

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Speaker 2: You can't scroll through TikTok, Instagram, or even YouTube these

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Speaker 2: days without bumping into a new wave of gambling influences.

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Speaker 3: All right, boys, four hundred dollars on the Pokeyes, bro.

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Speaker 1: Gamble with Brielle.

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Speaker 2: She's the best broad.

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Speaker 3: It is always like it's just the wrong seeing two

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars peatok print that five dollars club make the

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Speaker 3: money for.

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Speaker 2: Young folks, often in their twenties, roaring with excitement as

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Speaker 2: they hit the pokey's, place a bet at the races,

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Speaker 2: or stream their blackjack sessions live. They're not just having

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Speaker 2: a punt. They're building brand of catchphrases and spectacle for

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Speaker 2: a crowd of tens or even hundreds of thousands of followers.

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Speaker 2: So what actually is a gambling influencer? Well, in short,

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Speaker 2: there's social media personalities who share videos of themselves gambling

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Speaker 2: at pubs, casinos, even online, often with high stakes bets,

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Speaker 2: over the top reactions and community catch ups. In the comments,

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Speaker 2: some tip the odds or talk strategy. Others simply celebrate

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Speaker 2: wins commiserate losses. And that's a wrap. I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: not going tonight and build a sense of camaraderie around

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Speaker 2: risk taking. But who's watching these people? According to recent research,

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Speaker 2: the audience is surprisingly mixed, older than you might think

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Speaker 2: for Internet trends, evenly split between men and women, and

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Speaker 2: including a lot of regular gamblers. But there's a worrying trend.

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Speaker 2: These streams often land squarely in front of young viewers,

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Speaker 2: including those under eighteen, who wouldn't even be allowed inside

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Speaker 2: a real pokey lounge or casino. That's because TikTok, Instagram, YouTube,

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Speaker 2: and especially the streaming platform Kick have pretty loose age

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Speaker 2: restrictions and almost no reliable way to keep teens from

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Speaker 2: following or stumbling across gambling content. One of the concerns

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Speaker 2: with the rise of gambling influencers is their ability to

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Speaker 2: often turn gambling losses into a badge of honor. They

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Speaker 2: also share ideas about luck and strategy that can make

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Speaker 2: gambling look a lot less risky than it is. Viewers,

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Speaker 2: especially younger ones, can get unrealistic ideas about odds, getting

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Speaker 2: hooked on the thrill, or even find themselves nudge towards gambling.

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Speaker 2: For real influencers, posts aren't always marked as sponsored, and

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Speaker 2: it's common to spot referral links or direct ads to

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Speaker 2: online casinos mixed in. Now Here's where things get tricky.

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Speaker 2: Gambling companies in Australia are tightly regulated. For example, the

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Speaker 2: law dictates that they can't advertise during live sport from

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Speaker 2: five am to eight thirty pm, or even show odds

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Speaker 2: during breaks in play. There are bands on kid friendly ads,

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Speaker 2: streact no appeals to minor rules and big fines for

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Speaker 2: breaking them. For gambling influencers, well, they're largely unregulated. There's

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Speaker 2: no system for vetting their content, no time restrictions, and

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Speaker 2: no guarantee that audiences aren't made up of teens or kids.

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Speaker 2: It's a loophole that regulation hasn't caught up with. So

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Speaker 2: what now should there be bands or tighter restrictions on

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Speaker 2: gambling content by influencers online? To help us break it down,

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Speaker 2: we're joined by co director of the University of Sydney

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Speaker 2: Game and Play Lab, doctor Mark Johnson. Mark, let's dive

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Speaker 2: straight in should we ban gambling influences and their content

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Speaker 2: from social media?

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Speaker 3: I think that there's suddenly a lot of it to

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Speaker 3: say that these are things we should be very concerned about.

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Speaker 3: So I just finished up the kind of first big

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Speaker 3: study of people who watch this kind of content, particularly

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Speaker 3: in my case, on twitch and kick, and one thing

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Speaker 3: that we found was the roughly half of all the

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Speaker 3: people who we surveyed said that they felt watching this

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Speaker 3: kind of content online made them some more likely to

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Speaker 3: be inclined to gamble with their own money. And that's

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Speaker 3: a pretty huge thing, of course. But the flip side

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Speaker 3: is that we also found that roughly a quarter of

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Speaker 3: our respondents said they felt watching this kind of content

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Speaker 3: made them in fact less likely to play with their

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Speaker 3: money because they were still able to get some of

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Speaker 3: the thrill some of the excitements and so on from

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Speaker 3: watching videos rather than doing it themselves. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's quite a complex space, particularly with the ACMA thing

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Speaker 3: a few weeks ago. I think it is increasingly kind

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Speaker 3: of coming to people's attention. But this content that discontent

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Speaker 3: exists and it's something we should definitely be thinking about.

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Speaker 2: I want to come back to the ACMA thing in

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Speaker 2: a moment. Can you actually just tell us what is

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Speaker 2: the definition of a gambling influencer? What does their content

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Speaker 2: actually look like?

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Speaker 3: I think the best way to explain is by spitting

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Speaker 3: into two groups. There's offline ones and online ones. So

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Speaker 3: the offline ones are people who are recording videos of

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Speaker 3: themselves going into kind of casinos and places like that

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Speaker 3: and playing gambling games. It might be Pokey's or slots

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Speaker 3: in most cases, but there's also plenty of people who

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Speaker 3: also record themselves playing craps of Blackjack, of roulette and

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Speaker 3: so on, if they are doing it in a book

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Speaker 3: and mortar casino in general, those are people who upload

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Speaker 3: their videos to YouTube or TikTok or Instagram as well.

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Speaker 3: And then the other side is people who are recording

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Speaker 3: and broadcasting their play of online casinos. Again, in general

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Speaker 3: pokey slash slots, and then they are live streaming themselves

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Speaker 3: on Twitch and on kick as well, And in all

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Speaker 3: of these sorts of context, there's quite a lot of

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Speaker 3: kind of back and forth between the streamer or the

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Speaker 3: broadcaster or the content creator what that they kind of

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Speaker 3: frame themselves as and their viewers mark.

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Speaker 2: Is there a particular demographic of people that are more

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Speaker 2: likely to watch content from gambling influences?

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Speaker 3: Right now, we don't have too much data on that.

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Speaker 3: There's only four publications from academic research on Earth on

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Speaker 3: this topic, and I wrote two of them. There's just

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Speaker 3: not that much research on this yet. What we know

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Speaker 3: is it does tend young, although less young than gambling

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Speaker 3: in gen and well does, which is quite a kind

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Speaker 3: of wide age range thing. Most of the people viewing

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Speaker 3: these channels do seem to be in their twenties and

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Speaker 3: in their thirties. We also do know that some young

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Speaker 3: people below the age of eighteen are viewing these but

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Speaker 3: we don't have data on how many. So it could

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Speaker 3: be only one in one hundred people who watch this

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Speaker 3: content are below the age of eighteen. It could be

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Speaker 3: nineteen nine and out of one hundred, we just don't

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Speaker 3: have that data. Yet this content tends to also be

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Speaker 3: very badly age gated, so when you go onto the

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Speaker 3: streams on Twitch or kick, it'll just say are you're eighteen?

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Speaker 3: Yes or no? You'd like yes and you're gone.

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Speaker 2: Help me through what happened with ACMA a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so ACMA kind of put out a notice to

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Speaker 3: broadcasters and content creators and influences on in Australia that

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Speaker 3: particular things they might be doing might be breaking existing laws.

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Speaker 3: So there aren't really any legislative or veculatory responses in

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Speaker 3: place yet to broadcasting gambling content, but this notice point

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Speaker 3: that certain kinds of online play are banned in this country,

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Speaker 3: and therefore by streaming those you are essentially streaming yourself

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Speaker 3: breaking the law, which seems like maybe not the wisest

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Speaker 3: thing to do. But my recent study showed that a

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Speaker 3: lot of gambling streamers on Twitch, which does allow this

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Speaker 3: kind of content but also has fairly strict rules around it,

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Speaker 3: a lot of gambling influencers on Twitch don't in fact

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Speaker 3: follow the platform's rules, and so that shows that this

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Speaker 3: is not all, of course, but in general, there's quite

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Speaker 3: a lot of people doing this kind of broadcasting who

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Speaker 3: maybe aren't particularly concerned about rules and regulations when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the kind of content. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: also be inflected as well in the coming to online

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Speaker 3: casinos they broadcast themselves on, as most of these are

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Speaker 3: offshore cryptocoovency sites which also have quite complexly galil with

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Speaker 3: these around them at times as well.

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Speaker 2: Before we let you go, Mark, I on't o pose

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Speaker 2: something to we know that these influencers are currently operating

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Speaker 2: in a bit of a great area. They're not quite

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Speaker 2: held to the same standard as say television broadcasters or

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Speaker 2: gambling companies when it comes to advertising or perceived advertising.

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Speaker 2: With under sixteens about to be barred from social media accounts,

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Speaker 2: accessing this kind of content will inevitably become slightly more

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Speaker 2: difficult for them. So in theory, if it's just adults

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Speaker 2: online viewing this kind of content, who for the most

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Speaker 2: part are of sound mind can make their own decisions,

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Speaker 2: does that lessen the consequence do you think on gambling influences.

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Speaker 3: I think it does reduce it if you are reducing

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Speaker 3: the extent to which young people can access this kind

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Speaker 3: of content. And then given research like mine which shows

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Speaker 3: that more often than not, it does encourage viewers to

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Speaker 3: then want to play themselves. I think it will reduce

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Speaker 3: some total of harm, but how much it will reduce it,

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Speaker 3: like I say, is tricky because we don't know exactly

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Speaker 3: how many people who watch these childs are young people

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Speaker 3: at this point. So I think it will reduce it.

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Speaker 3: But as you kind of hint that a bit there,

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Speaker 3: it will reduce how much this can be accessed by

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Speaker 3: people below the age sixteen, but not that much because

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Speaker 3: vtns exist and young people are very resourceful when it

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Speaker 3: comes to online lives and online content and so on,

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Speaker 3: so I wouldn't expect that, especially when the full social

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Speaker 3: mediaa band comes in. I don't think it's going to

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Speaker 3: fully prevent it or anything close to it most likely,

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Speaker 3: but it will reduce it, and in doing so, will

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Speaker 3: I expect really reduce some of the harms which research

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Speaker 3: is now the beginning to pin down watching these kinds

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Speaker 3: of broadcasts and these sense of videos might do with people.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard about this term around and find out

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Speaker 2: it's now being co opted into parenting, a sharp departure

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Speaker 2: from the gentle approaches that have recently dominated child rearing.

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Speaker 2: The idea is simple, when your kid makes a questionable choice.

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Speaker 2: You let them face the real world consequences, no lectures,

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Speaker 2: no soft landings. It's supposed to build resilience and teach

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Speaker 2: life's tough lessons early. But does it work or is

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Speaker 2: it just the latest internet wisdom that's more hashtag than helpful?

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Speaker 2: Parenting expert Gen Neil warns this tough love approach can

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Speaker 2: cross a line if it means letting your kids struggle

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Speaker 2: without support, lose trust, or get the message that they're

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Speaker 2: on their own when things go wrong. FAFO might suit

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Speaker 2: some situations, like forgetting your jacket and getting cold, but

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Speaker 2: it's not a magic bullet. If a child feels shamed, unsafe,

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Speaker 2: or on loved, the fall out can last far beyond

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Speaker 2: a single lesson. Now, this is a far departure from

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Speaker 2: gentle parenting, which isn't without its own problems. According to Jen,

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Speaker 2: the issue isn't with gentle parenting itself, but with how

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Speaker 2: it's being communicated and largely misunderstood. Gentle parenting was meant

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Speaker 2: to strike a balance connection and boundaries, but somewhere along

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Speaker 2: the way the firm part got lost in translation. Many

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Speaker 2: parents know what not to do aka no yelling, no punishments,

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Speaker 2: but they weren't shown what to do instead. As with

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Speaker 2: nearly every parenting style, balance is key. Kids learn best

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Speaker 2: with firm boundaries and care, and making mistakes is healthy

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Speaker 2: if there's a net to catch them and talk it through.

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Speaker 2: If you want to hear more from Jen, you can

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Speaker 2: stream her on Mumma MEA's co listening podcast for parents

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Speaker 2: and children, how to Build a Universe. I'll make sure

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Speaker 2: they link it in the show notes. Thanks for taking

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Speaker 2: the time to feed your mind with us today. The

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Speaker 2: quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano and Clere Murphy,

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Speaker 2: with audio production by Lou Hill.