1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:13,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,094 --> 00:00:17,174 Speaker 2: Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,214 --> 00:00:18,894 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. 4 00:00:21,814 --> 00:00:25,014 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily 5 00:00:25,054 --> 00:00:28,414 Speaker 1: news podcast, The Quickiear. New evidence has emerged in the 6 00:00:28,414 --> 00:00:33,374 Speaker 1: William Tyrell case as investigators uncover previously unheard claims about 7 00:00:33,374 --> 00:00:36,654 Speaker 1: the location of the missing toddler. Plus why do some 8 00:00:36,694 --> 00:00:40,094 Speaker 1: people get the ick that we are dating phenomenon more 9 00:00:40,134 --> 00:00:43,134 Speaker 1: than others before we get there? He is Tarlie Blackman 10 00:00:43,174 --> 00:00:45,934 Speaker 1: with the latest from the Quickie newsroom for Friday May 11 00:00:45,974 --> 00:00:46,774 Speaker 1: twenty three. 12 00:00:47,334 --> 00:00:50,534 Speaker 3: Thanks Taylor. Three people have been confirmed dead and another 13 00:00:50,654 --> 00:00:54,374 Speaker 3: remains missing as record breaking floods continue to devastate the 14 00:00:54,374 --> 00:00:57,414 Speaker 3: New South Wales mid North coast. The region has now 15 00:00:57,494 --> 00:01:01,094 Speaker 3: been declared a natural disaster zone, with emergency services warning 16 00:01:01,134 --> 00:01:04,094 Speaker 3: the crisis is far from over. The latest victim, a 17 00:01:04,174 --> 00:01:06,694 Speaker 3: sixty year old woman, was found in her car near 18 00:01:06,734 --> 00:01:11,254 Speaker 3: Brooklana after she attempted to drive through floodboard despite police warnings. 19 00:01:11,734 --> 00:01:14,374 Speaker 3: A man in his thirties was found discovered in flood 20 00:01:14,454 --> 00:01:17,574 Speaker 3: orders near Warhope, while sixty three year old David Knowles 21 00:01:17,614 --> 00:01:20,614 Speaker 3: was found in his flooded home near Tare after likely 22 00:01:20,654 --> 00:01:24,014 Speaker 3: suffering a medical episode. A forty nine year old man 23 00:01:24,054 --> 00:01:27,974 Speaker 3: remains missing in Nimboida, south of Grafton. Nearly six hundred 24 00:01:28,014 --> 00:01:31,014 Speaker 3: flood rescues have been carried out and around fifty thousand 25 00:01:31,014 --> 00:01:34,454 Speaker 3: people have been warned to prepare for isolation. Entire towns 26 00:01:34,454 --> 00:01:37,094 Speaker 3: have been cut off, powers out to thousands of homes 27 00:01:37,134 --> 00:01:40,654 Speaker 3: and livestock have been swept away. Authorities are urging residents 28 00:01:40,654 --> 00:01:44,014 Speaker 3: to follow evacuation orders as more heavy rain is forecast 29 00:01:44,054 --> 00:01:47,774 Speaker 3: for the Mid North Coast and surrounding regions today. Evacuation 30 00:01:47,894 --> 00:01:52,054 Speaker 3: centers have been set up in Tare, Kempsey Port, Macquarie, Wingham, 31 00:01:52,254 --> 00:01:56,854 Speaker 3: Coffs Harbor and other hard hit communities. Two Israeli embassy 32 00:01:56,894 --> 00:01:59,854 Speaker 3: staff were shot dead late Wednesday night in Washington, d C. 33 00:02:00,134 --> 00:02:05,214 Speaker 3: Thursday morning in Australia. The victims, Juronshinsky and Sarah Lynn Minigam, 34 00:02:05,374 --> 00:02:08,254 Speaker 3: were a young couple attending an event near the White House. 35 00:02:08,814 --> 00:02:12,214 Speaker 3: The suspect, US thirty year old Elias Rodriguez from Chicago, 36 00:02:12,454 --> 00:02:15,054 Speaker 3: opened fire on a group of four people before being 37 00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:18,534 Speaker 3: detained inside the museum. Police recovered the weapon and said 38 00:02:18,614 --> 00:02:23,294 Speaker 3: Rodriguez chanted Free Free Palestine while in custody. Authorities confirmed 39 00:02:23,374 --> 00:02:27,374 Speaker 3: there is no ongoing threat. Israeli officials described the victims 40 00:02:27,414 --> 00:02:30,694 Speaker 3: as beloved embassy staff. The man had recently planned to 41 00:02:30,734 --> 00:02:35,054 Speaker 3: propose to his girlfriend US and international leader's pledged justice 42 00:02:35,094 --> 00:02:39,294 Speaker 3: and increased security measures. The suspect will be prosecuted by 43 00:02:39,454 --> 00:02:43,694 Speaker 3: US authorities. Rapper Kid Cutty has taken the stand in 44 00:02:43,774 --> 00:02:47,654 Speaker 3: Sean Diddy Kumbs's sex trafficking and racketeering trial in New York. 45 00:02:47,974 --> 00:02:51,414 Speaker 3: Cutty accused Kums of breaking into his Los Angeles home 46 00:02:51,534 --> 00:02:55,614 Speaker 3: after discovering his relationship with Kums's then girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. 47 00:02:56,054 --> 00:02:58,454 Speaker 3: I wanted to confront him. I wanted to fight him, 48 00:02:58,534 --> 00:03:02,054 Speaker 3: Cutty told the court. Cutty also said Venturer misled him 49 00:03:02,094 --> 00:03:05,014 Speaker 3: about her relationship with Kum's, claiming they had broken up. 50 00:03:05,454 --> 00:03:08,934 Speaker 3: During tense encounters, Cutty said Cumbs entered his home without 51 00:03:08,934 --> 00:03:12,134 Speaker 3: permission and that he called the police. The rapper later 52 00:03:12,174 --> 00:03:15,534 Speaker 3: met Kums at a private club, where Kums denied any wrongdoing. 53 00:03:15,934 --> 00:03:20,334 Speaker 3: Cuti said Kumbs eventually apologized, bringing him some peace. Kums 54 00:03:20,334 --> 00:03:24,094 Speaker 3: denies all charges against him. The trial continues in Manhattan 55 00:03:24,134 --> 00:03:28,494 Speaker 3: Federal Court. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyah, who said all 56 00:03:28,534 --> 00:03:32,374 Speaker 3: of Gaza will eventually be under Israeli control following ongoing 57 00:03:32,374 --> 00:03:37,174 Speaker 3: attacks and rising casualties. He also claimed Israel likely killed 58 00:03:37,174 --> 00:03:41,334 Speaker 3: hermas's leader Mohammad Sinhwar after a recent hospital strike. At 59 00:03:41,454 --> 00:03:44,814 Speaker 3: least eighty two people, including a newborn and woman, died 60 00:03:44,854 --> 00:03:49,094 Speaker 3: in overnight Israeli strikes. Gaza's Nasa Hospital is struggling, with 61 00:03:49,174 --> 00:03:52,014 Speaker 3: staff saying many patients died due to lack of care. 62 00:03:52,374 --> 00:03:56,054 Speaker 3: The UN warned no humanitarian aid has reached Gaza yet, 63 00:03:56,214 --> 00:04:00,134 Speaker 3: despite the recent lifting of an eleven week blockade. Israeli 64 00:04:00,214 --> 00:04:04,214 Speaker 3: tank fire heavily damaged Al auDA Hospital in northern Gaza, 65 00:04:04,254 --> 00:04:08,774 Speaker 3: with the military investigating the cause. Liberal and Nationals MPs 66 00:04:08,774 --> 00:04:11,574 Speaker 3: are close to re uniting their coalition, but have delayed 67 00:04:11,654 --> 00:04:15,414 Speaker 3: naming their shadow cabinet to work out details. Liberal leader 68 00:04:15,454 --> 00:04:18,014 Speaker 3: Susan Lee told her party that most want to stay 69 00:04:18,014 --> 00:04:21,414 Speaker 3: in coalition, but not at any cost. The Nationals want 70 00:04:21,414 --> 00:04:24,854 Speaker 3: commitments on nuclear energy, new business sour laws, and a 71 00:04:24,894 --> 00:04:29,574 Speaker 3: twenty billion dollar fund for regional areas and improved phone coverage. 72 00:04:29,894 --> 00:04:33,454 Speaker 3: Liberals are open, but want to clarify on costs. And funding. 73 00:04:33,974 --> 00:04:37,014 Speaker 3: National's leader David Little Proud said these policies matter to 74 00:04:37,054 --> 00:04:40,574 Speaker 3: his voters. Talks will continue as both parties try to 75 00:04:40,574 --> 00:04:41,414 Speaker 3: reach an agreement. 76 00:04:42,414 --> 00:04:43,694 Speaker 4: Thanks Charlie. Next. 77 00:04:43,854 --> 00:04:51,534 Speaker 1: The latest developments in the William Tyrell case. This September 78 00:04:51,574 --> 00:04:54,574 Speaker 1: will mark eleven years since three year old William Tyrell 79 00:04:54,774 --> 00:04:57,774 Speaker 1: vanished from his foster grandmother's home in Kendall on the 80 00:04:57,814 --> 00:05:01,294 Speaker 1: New South Wales Mid North Coast, wearing his favorite Spider 81 00:05:01,334 --> 00:05:03,814 Speaker 1: Man suit. William had been playing in the front yard, 82 00:05:04,014 --> 00:05:06,854 Speaker 1: running and roaring in a game of tigers, but in 83 00:05:06,894 --> 00:05:10,614 Speaker 1: a matter of minutes, the playful sounds stopped and William 84 00:05:10,854 --> 00:05:15,534 Speaker 1: was gone. What followed was one of the largest police 85 00:05:15,574 --> 00:05:20,134 Speaker 1: investigations in Australian history, with hundreds of volunteers searching the 86 00:05:20,174 --> 00:05:24,334 Speaker 1: surrounding bushland. Now, nearly eleven years later, new evidence has 87 00:05:24,374 --> 00:05:29,014 Speaker 1: emerged that was never heard during the inquest. According to NewsCorp, 88 00:05:29,134 --> 00:05:32,334 Speaker 1: who were diving deep into the case on their Witness podcast, 89 00:05:32,574 --> 00:05:35,854 Speaker 1: the claims relate to a specific location near Kendall, an 90 00:05:35,894 --> 00:05:39,934 Speaker 1: area that investigators haven't yet searched, despite its proximity to 91 00:05:39,934 --> 00:05:44,014 Speaker 1: where William disappeared. To complicate things further, this new claim 92 00:05:44,054 --> 00:05:47,294 Speaker 1: comes as the recent inquest revealed no evidence against the 93 00:05:47,334 --> 00:05:51,534 Speaker 1: person currently identified by police as their main suspect, William's 94 00:05:51,534 --> 00:05:52,094 Speaker 1: foster mother. 95 00:05:52,854 --> 00:05:54,094 Speaker 4: Nina Young is an. 96 00:05:53,934 --> 00:05:58,374 Speaker 1: Investigative journalist working on the Witness William Tyrel podcast. Nina, 97 00:05:58,614 --> 00:06:02,494 Speaker 1: You've been investigating the new developments in the William Tyrel case. 98 00:06:03,174 --> 00:06:05,214 Speaker 4: What has most recently come to light? 99 00:06:05,654 --> 00:06:08,774 Speaker 2: We started this podcast last year and what we were 100 00:06:08,774 --> 00:06:12,574 Speaker 2: trying to do was really more investigate the investigation, so 101 00:06:13,094 --> 00:06:15,694 Speaker 2: we never really set out to try and solve the case. 102 00:06:15,894 --> 00:06:20,054 Speaker 2: This isn't one of those podcasts. We intended to finish 103 00:06:20,094 --> 00:06:22,734 Speaker 2: the podcast at the end of last year as the 104 00:06:22,734 --> 00:06:25,734 Speaker 2: inquest wrapped up, but we got to the end of 105 00:06:25,774 --> 00:06:27,854 Speaker 2: that and we just felt that we still had so 106 00:06:27,894 --> 00:06:31,774 Speaker 2: many unanswered questions. Particularly, there was a a person of 107 00:06:31,814 --> 00:06:35,654 Speaker 2: interests called Frank Abbott, and he was quite a big 108 00:06:35,694 --> 00:06:38,854 Speaker 2: focus of the police investigation and quite a big focus 109 00:06:38,894 --> 00:06:42,414 Speaker 2: of the inquest right up until the police investigation really 110 00:06:42,414 --> 00:06:44,934 Speaker 2: switched gears and started to focus on William's foster mother. 111 00:06:45,814 --> 00:06:50,174 Speaker 2: So we decided to just spend the last five seven months, 112 00:06:50,214 --> 00:06:53,094 Speaker 2: I think, really doing a deep dive on Frank Abbott 113 00:06:53,094 --> 00:06:55,334 Speaker 2: and to see if we could find some of those 114 00:06:55,614 --> 00:06:59,254 Speaker 2: answers to those unanswered questions that we had from the inquest. 115 00:06:59,414 --> 00:07:01,014 Speaker 4: What do we know about Frank Abbott? 116 00:07:01,174 --> 00:07:04,654 Speaker 2: I know too much. We don't know a lot of 117 00:07:04,654 --> 00:07:07,574 Speaker 2: good things. Nobody has anything good to say about Frank Abbott. 118 00:07:07,734 --> 00:07:10,894 Speaker 2: So Frank Abbertt is currently is a convicted sex offender. 119 00:07:10,974 --> 00:07:13,894 Speaker 2: He's in prison at the moment serving sixteen years or 120 00:07:13,974 --> 00:07:17,054 Speaker 2: child abuse on three children, two girls and a boy, 121 00:07:17,294 --> 00:07:21,054 Speaker 2: which is quite a hefty sentence. And Frank kind of 122 00:07:21,094 --> 00:07:23,654 Speaker 2: came into the investigation a little bit late, but he 123 00:07:23,854 --> 00:07:27,414 Speaker 2: was really inserting himself into the investigation. So he did 124 00:07:27,454 --> 00:07:30,494 Speaker 2: things like he would contact the police and say that 125 00:07:30,534 --> 00:07:32,254 Speaker 2: he had information for them, and he would try and 126 00:07:32,254 --> 00:07:35,254 Speaker 2: implicate other people. He would talk about the williamterial investigation 127 00:07:35,614 --> 00:07:38,694 Speaker 2: all the time. And there was some evidence at the 128 00:07:38,694 --> 00:07:42,334 Speaker 2: inquest that was given that one of his friends before 129 00:07:42,374 --> 00:07:45,454 Speaker 2: he died told a nurse in a nursing home that 130 00:07:45,534 --> 00:07:48,094 Speaker 2: he had given his best friend a lift with a 131 00:07:48,094 --> 00:07:53,094 Speaker 2: little boy. And the nurse said, was that William And 132 00:07:53,134 --> 00:07:56,254 Speaker 2: he said yes. Now, nothing's ever come of that. We 133 00:07:56,294 --> 00:07:57,814 Speaker 2: don't know if it's true. That was evidence that was 134 00:07:57,854 --> 00:08:02,214 Speaker 2: given at the inquest. So we decided to look into Frank. 135 00:08:02,254 --> 00:08:04,694 Speaker 2: We went to where he used to live. We spoke 136 00:08:04,734 --> 00:08:07,374 Speaker 2: to his neighbours, people who knew him, people who worked 137 00:08:07,374 --> 00:08:12,094 Speaker 2: with him. We found out things like allegedly his brother 138 00:08:12,374 --> 00:08:16,814 Speaker 2: Bluis was telling people that Frank may have buried William 139 00:08:16,974 --> 00:08:19,934 Speaker 2: underneath the Bird Tree, which is a quite a popular 140 00:08:20,014 --> 00:08:25,094 Speaker 2: tourist area about twenty minutes away from where William went missing. 141 00:08:25,894 --> 00:08:27,934 Speaker 2: We don't know if that's true at all, but we 142 00:08:27,934 --> 00:08:30,374 Speaker 2: do know that the police haven't searched that area. We've 143 00:08:30,414 --> 00:08:34,174 Speaker 2: also found links between Frank and a number of unsolved 144 00:08:34,254 --> 00:08:38,534 Speaker 2: murders on the New South Wales north coast that previously 145 00:08:38,574 --> 00:08:41,774 Speaker 2: hadn't been reported. And again we're not alleging that Frank 146 00:08:41,774 --> 00:08:44,974 Speaker 2: had anything to do with those murders, but we are saying, 147 00:08:45,014 --> 00:08:48,294 Speaker 2: and we're looking at in the podcast, the police didn't 148 00:08:48,334 --> 00:08:51,454 Speaker 2: seem to follow up those leads, and witnesses weren't interviewed 149 00:08:51,454 --> 00:08:54,894 Speaker 2: by police, people who gave statements weren't followed up by police. 150 00:08:55,174 --> 00:08:57,414 Speaker 1: I feel like there are so many times in history 151 00:08:57,454 --> 00:09:01,814 Speaker 1: where true crime podcast or investigative podcasts sometimes do lead 152 00:09:01,934 --> 00:09:04,934 Speaker 1: to new evidence and new discoveries and police taking on 153 00:09:05,054 --> 00:09:07,854 Speaker 1: new directions in a case, have you spoken to or 154 00:09:07,854 --> 00:09:10,694 Speaker 1: had any involvement with the police while you've been making 155 00:09:10,734 --> 00:09:11,454 Speaker 1: this podcast. 156 00:09:11,934 --> 00:09:14,774 Speaker 2: This information has been given to the police, and we've 157 00:09:14,814 --> 00:09:17,814 Speaker 2: invited the police to speak to us. We've given them 158 00:09:17,854 --> 00:09:21,294 Speaker 2: opportunities to give us statements. They haven't been responsive to that. 159 00:09:21,454 --> 00:09:24,134 Speaker 1: No, with every new episode of the podcast that comes out, 160 00:09:24,134 --> 00:09:27,014 Speaker 1: I imagine that you receive an influx of tip offs 161 00:09:27,054 --> 00:09:30,854 Speaker 1: and information and people offering their two cents. How do 162 00:09:30,894 --> 00:09:33,294 Speaker 1: you start to make your way through that and really 163 00:09:33,694 --> 00:09:36,854 Speaker 1: decipher what is potentially fat from fiction. 164 00:09:37,174 --> 00:09:39,854 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question because if you do reach out, 165 00:09:40,014 --> 00:09:42,614 Speaker 2: you generally you think that what you're saying is true. 166 00:09:42,734 --> 00:09:44,814 Speaker 2: Like everybody who reaches out thinks that their tip is 167 00:09:44,814 --> 00:09:49,174 Speaker 2: really relevant. But sometimes it's kind of this weird jigsaw, 168 00:09:49,254 --> 00:09:51,814 Speaker 2: like this person told me this, this person told me that. 169 00:09:52,174 --> 00:09:54,174 Speaker 2: Now I've actually got to go and find out what's 170 00:09:54,214 --> 00:09:57,174 Speaker 2: true within those two different stories, and we do that 171 00:09:57,214 --> 00:10:00,374 Speaker 2: with court records or any other records we could find. 172 00:10:00,814 --> 00:10:02,854 Speaker 2: We definitely job to put this out that we don't 173 00:10:02,854 --> 00:10:06,534 Speaker 2: need any more psychic mediums. Okay, have so many. We're 174 00:10:06,534 --> 00:10:09,894 Speaker 2: good for that, thank you. But the tips have been really, 175 00:10:09,934 --> 00:10:12,414 Speaker 2: really useful. They have shaped the way that we've been 176 00:10:12,454 --> 00:10:14,254 Speaker 2: conducting this investigation in a big way. 177 00:10:14,494 --> 00:10:17,134 Speaker 1: You and Dan have been working on this for a 178 00:10:17,294 --> 00:10:20,654 Speaker 1: number of years now. What is it that's kept you 179 00:10:20,694 --> 00:10:22,654 Speaker 1: so committed to the case of William Tyrell? 180 00:10:23,174 --> 00:10:27,134 Speaker 2: For me, there's just there's so much to William's story. 181 00:10:28,294 --> 00:10:31,054 Speaker 2: There's obviously that feeling that we all have that we 182 00:10:31,134 --> 00:10:33,134 Speaker 2: just want to know what happened to this child. And 183 00:10:33,814 --> 00:10:36,574 Speaker 2: as a parent, you just feel this connection, like you 184 00:10:36,614 --> 00:10:38,574 Speaker 2: can sort of understand what it would feel like to 185 00:10:38,734 --> 00:10:40,734 Speaker 2: just your child goes missing and you don't know what's 186 00:10:40,734 --> 00:10:43,414 Speaker 2: happened to them, Like it's a horrifying feeling. But there's 187 00:10:43,454 --> 00:10:45,494 Speaker 2: also this other element when we start looking at the 188 00:10:45,534 --> 00:10:49,694 Speaker 2: investigation and the way that police have handled persons of 189 00:10:49,694 --> 00:10:53,894 Speaker 2: interest in this investigation, I'm really unhappy with it. I 190 00:10:53,934 --> 00:10:55,974 Speaker 2: want the police to answer some questions. I want to 191 00:10:56,014 --> 00:10:59,814 Speaker 2: know that in the future, when the police have a 192 00:10:59,854 --> 00:11:03,374 Speaker 2: suspect of a person of interest, that they aren't just 193 00:11:03,494 --> 00:11:06,454 Speaker 2: going to use public pressure to break them, because I 194 00:11:06,454 --> 00:11:08,694 Speaker 2: think that's really really dangerous and we've seen it happen 195 00:11:08,814 --> 00:11:12,014 Speaker 2: multiple times in this investigation and it ruins their lives 196 00:11:12,254 --> 00:11:15,334 Speaker 2: and there's been people who've been subsequently ruled out. We 197 00:11:15,414 --> 00:11:17,614 Speaker 2: know they haven't done it, but their lives have been 198 00:11:17,654 --> 00:11:20,254 Speaker 2: ruined because they've been publicly held up as a person 199 00:11:20,254 --> 00:11:23,814 Speaker 2: of interest or a suspect without evidence. That's something that 200 00:11:23,934 --> 00:11:25,894 Speaker 2: is really stuck with me and it has kept me 201 00:11:25,974 --> 00:11:28,254 Speaker 2: going through this like it's not fair and it's not 202 00:11:28,294 --> 00:11:29,614 Speaker 2: the way the police should be operating. 203 00:11:30,014 --> 00:11:33,694 Speaker 1: That image of little William Tyrell in the Spider Man 204 00:11:33,814 --> 00:11:37,054 Speaker 1: suit is burned into the brain of every parent in Australia, 205 00:11:37,094 --> 00:11:39,294 Speaker 1: of anybody who's been around and watched the news in. 206 00:11:39,294 --> 00:11:41,894 Speaker 4: The last ten years. Why do we keep being drawn 207 00:11:41,974 --> 00:11:42,454 Speaker 4: back to this? 208 00:11:42,934 --> 00:11:46,094 Speaker 2: It's a good question, because children go missing every day, 209 00:11:46,174 --> 00:11:49,134 Speaker 2: most of them are found. I think it's these rare 210 00:11:49,214 --> 00:11:53,454 Speaker 2: cases where it is just such a mystery. With ten 211 00:11:53,534 --> 00:11:56,774 Speaker 2: years into this, we don't know anything. There's no evidence 212 00:11:56,774 --> 00:11:59,254 Speaker 2: about what happened to William that day. I think it's 213 00:11:59,454 --> 00:12:02,734 Speaker 2: sort of similar, almost to the Madeline mccahan case, which 214 00:12:02,774 --> 00:12:04,814 Speaker 2: we're only starting to sort of see answers coming in 215 00:12:04,854 --> 00:12:07,934 Speaker 2: about now. But I think it's partly that it's the 216 00:12:08,014 --> 00:12:11,014 Speaker 2: mystery aspect, but it's also just that picture of William. 217 00:12:11,654 --> 00:12:14,934 Speaker 2: He's so small, the pain's unimaginable, I think. 218 00:12:15,534 --> 00:12:17,654 Speaker 1: Nina, do you think we'll ever find out what happened 219 00:12:17,734 --> 00:12:18,534 Speaker 1: to William Tyrrel. 220 00:12:19,494 --> 00:12:24,054 Speaker 2: I really really really hope so I do. And I 221 00:12:24,094 --> 00:12:27,894 Speaker 2: think when they do finances one day, and I don't 222 00:12:27,934 --> 00:12:29,694 Speaker 2: know when that could be. That could be tomorrow, that 223 00:12:29,734 --> 00:12:32,414 Speaker 2: could be forty years from now, I think we'll find 224 00:12:32,574 --> 00:12:36,374 Speaker 2: that the answers were already in the file. I think 225 00:12:36,414 --> 00:12:39,014 Speaker 2: that's always the case, like there's something that's been overlooked 226 00:12:39,654 --> 00:12:42,414 Speaker 2: through the multiple reviews, Like there'll be that tiny clue 227 00:12:42,454 --> 00:12:45,334 Speaker 2: that just got missed. But I hope so, and I 228 00:12:45,374 --> 00:12:48,174 Speaker 2: hope it's not too late, and I hope that the 229 00:12:48,214 --> 00:12:51,814 Speaker 2: politics haven't sort of ruined the chances of that happening. 230 00:12:53,494 --> 00:12:55,254 Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about this case, our 231 00:12:55,294 --> 00:12:58,614 Speaker 1: friends over at True Crime Conversations actually had Dan Box 232 00:12:58,694 --> 00:13:01,214 Speaker 1: on the pod this week. He's the host of the 233 00:13:01,254 --> 00:13:04,374 Speaker 1: Witness podcast and has been working alongside our guest today, 234 00:13:04,454 --> 00:13:06,974 Speaker 1: Nina Young. I'll link it in our show notes so 235 00:13:07,054 --> 00:13:12,054 Speaker 1: you can listen to that next. Have you ever been 236 00:13:12,134 --> 00:13:15,694 Speaker 1: on a promising date only to have your attraction suddenly vanished. 237 00:13:16,174 --> 00:13:17,854 Speaker 4: I'm sorry to say, my friend. 238 00:13:17,734 --> 00:13:22,414 Speaker 1: But you've experienced the ick. Look you're not alone. I 239 00:13:22,574 --> 00:13:27,614 Speaker 1: actually asked my colleagues what they've experienced, and well they 240 00:13:27,654 --> 00:13:28,534 Speaker 1: didn't hold back. 241 00:13:31,334 --> 00:13:33,134 Speaker 5: I was seeing this guy and we'd been on a 242 00:13:33,174 --> 00:13:35,014 Speaker 5: few dates and he invited me over to his house 243 00:13:35,054 --> 00:13:37,814 Speaker 5: for dinner that afternoon. He sent me a text asking 244 00:13:37,854 --> 00:13:40,334 Speaker 5: if I could pick up some steaks. Obviously I'm not 245 00:13:40,334 --> 00:13:42,654 Speaker 5: picking up states and I've been invited over for dinner. 246 00:13:42,854 --> 00:13:44,334 Speaker 5: And then he ended up picking up what I was 247 00:13:44,334 --> 00:13:46,854 Speaker 5: putting down and said to me, look, I'll get the steaks, 248 00:13:46,894 --> 00:13:49,094 Speaker 5: but do you mind picking up some cooking cream, some 249 00:13:49,214 --> 00:13:51,974 Speaker 5: mushrooms and some sweet potato. I got to his house 250 00:13:52,174 --> 00:13:55,774 Speaker 5: and I saw that he'd purchased an Audi steak. Nothing 251 00:13:55,814 --> 00:13:58,534 Speaker 5: against Audi, absolutely love Audi, but the fact that he 252 00:13:58,654 --> 00:14:02,134 Speaker 5: was in Audi. He had to walk past the sweet potato, 253 00:14:02,214 --> 00:14:04,694 Speaker 5: the mushroom, and the cooking cream in order to buy 254 00:14:04,734 --> 00:14:07,774 Speaker 5: the steaks, and he chose not to do that drinking 255 00:14:08,334 --> 00:14:11,294 Speaker 5: with a straw. I don't know. That just was super 256 00:14:11,334 --> 00:14:12,454 Speaker 5: icky to me. 257 00:14:12,454 --> 00:14:15,654 Speaker 4: Men wearing sockats really got to me. I can't explain why, 258 00:14:15,694 --> 00:14:17,534 Speaker 4: but it just gives me the exo bad. 259 00:14:17,294 --> 00:14:22,414 Speaker 5: Tight pants, like tracks in pants that are super tight. Gross. 260 00:14:22,774 --> 00:14:26,494 Speaker 3: He played me his SoundCloud mixes in the most sincere 261 00:14:26,654 --> 00:14:28,214 Speaker 3: and earnest way possible. 262 00:14:28,454 --> 00:14:31,174 Speaker 5: It was eight pm, and we were both sober. This 263 00:14:31,214 --> 00:14:34,494 Speaker 5: Sky was eating a yogurt and he licked the spoon 264 00:14:34,614 --> 00:14:36,774 Speaker 5: and oh, I don't know why. It was just so 265 00:14:36,894 --> 00:14:37,334 Speaker 5: gross to me. 266 00:14:37,534 --> 00:14:41,014 Speaker 6: He was so sophisticated and so suave. We decided to 267 00:14:41,014 --> 00:14:42,854 Speaker 6: go to a barb which also had a dance floor, 268 00:14:43,014 --> 00:14:45,974 Speaker 6: and he just lost himself in the music and started 269 00:14:45,974 --> 00:14:47,574 Speaker 6: doing some very dorky dancing. 270 00:14:47,734 --> 00:14:49,254 Speaker 4: I think he also kind of forgot. 271 00:14:49,094 --> 00:14:49,614 Speaker 6: I was there. 272 00:14:50,054 --> 00:14:52,094 Speaker 7: I was dating a guy for a couple of months. 273 00:14:52,134 --> 00:14:55,814 Speaker 7: He wasn't an artist, but I'd seen canvases and paint 274 00:14:55,854 --> 00:14:58,854 Speaker 7: around his house. He sent me pictures of two paintings 275 00:14:58,934 --> 00:15:02,694 Speaker 7: he'd done, and they were the worst paintings I've ever seen, 276 00:15:02,814 --> 00:15:05,134 Speaker 7: Like honestly, my eight year old at the time could 277 00:15:05,174 --> 00:15:05,814 Speaker 7: have done better. 278 00:15:06,094 --> 00:15:07,094 Speaker 2: I never saw him again. 279 00:15:07,294 --> 00:15:09,214 Speaker 1: He came to my house to pick me up for 280 00:15:09,294 --> 00:15:11,534 Speaker 1: us can date and broad and over. 281 00:15:11,414 --> 00:15:14,894 Speaker 4: At bag We hadn't spoken about a sleepover. 282 00:15:16,934 --> 00:15:19,774 Speaker 1: Even though the ick feels like this modern dating thing, 283 00:15:19,974 --> 00:15:23,534 Speaker 1: researchers say it actually comes from way back in our evolution. 284 00:15:24,294 --> 00:15:25,094 Speaker 4: It started as a. 285 00:15:25,014 --> 00:15:28,294 Speaker 1: Way to avoid disease and later help people steer clear 286 00:15:28,334 --> 00:15:32,574 Speaker 1: of bad matches. Basically, it's always been around. We just 287 00:15:32,614 --> 00:15:35,014 Speaker 1: finally gave it a name. Further to that, a new 288 00:15:35,054 --> 00:15:38,574 Speaker 1: study published in Personality and Individual Differences has found that 289 00:15:38,654 --> 00:15:43,094 Speaker 1: there's actually a psychological basis behind the dating phenomenon. So 290 00:15:43,334 --> 00:15:46,494 Speaker 1: researchers analyzed one hundred and twenty five people aged between 291 00:15:46,534 --> 00:15:49,894 Speaker 1: twenty four and seventy two, looking at their personality traits 292 00:15:49,934 --> 00:15:54,574 Speaker 1: and dating behaviors. The results, people with high rigid standards 293 00:15:54,694 --> 00:15:58,414 Speaker 1: were more likely to get the ick, and get it intensely. 294 00:15:59,174 --> 00:16:02,814 Speaker 1: The study found it's less about genuine incompatibility and more 295 00:16:02,854 --> 00:16:04,774 Speaker 1: about unrealistic expectations. 296 00:16:05,334 --> 00:16:07,654 Speaker 4: Interestingly, gender plays a role too. 297 00:16:07,894 --> 00:16:10,534 Speaker 1: Sixty three percent of women said they were familiar with 298 00:16:10,574 --> 00:16:13,254 Speaker 1: the term, but only thirty nine percent of men clocked 299 00:16:13,294 --> 00:16:16,254 Speaker 1: the meaning. And when it came to actually experiencing it, 300 00:16:16,414 --> 00:16:19,294 Speaker 1: around seventy five percent of women said they had, while 301 00:16:19,334 --> 00:16:23,334 Speaker 1: only fifty seven percent of men did. But look, don't panic. 302 00:16:23,614 --> 00:16:26,414 Speaker 1: It turns out in some cases you can actually overcome 303 00:16:26,454 --> 00:16:28,534 Speaker 1: the ick, like my colleague Lucy did. 304 00:16:29,054 --> 00:16:30,934 Speaker 8: So I went on a first date with a guy 305 00:16:31,094 --> 00:16:34,214 Speaker 8: after UNI and he actually left his backpack at the 306 00:16:34,214 --> 00:16:35,974 Speaker 8: bar and we had to go back and get it. 307 00:16:36,334 --> 00:16:39,574 Speaker 8: We've now been dating for three years, so it's a 308 00:16:39,654 --> 00:16:41,934 Speaker 8: true overcoming the Ick success story. 309 00:16:42,094 --> 00:16:43,574 Speaker 4: All's well that ends well. 310 00:16:43,894 --> 00:16:46,014 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for taking the time to feed your mind 311 00:16:46,014 --> 00:16:48,894 Speaker 1: with us today. The quickie is produced by Me, Taylor Strano, 312 00:16:48,974 --> 00:16:52,534 Speaker 1: and Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Lou Hill.